lymph pain only - is this herpes?

For two months I have been worried that I have given my partner herpes. However, her only symptom is a dull ache that appears in her left lower abdomen (ovary/lymph node area) but soon disappears. She has had this four times in ten weeks. The first attack was the worst (4-5) days, and the others have been milder and shorter (1-2 days). The three recurrences have been either 2-3 days after menses or have coincided with a cold.

At one point she had three small 'insect bites' - one on each thigh and one on her ribs (itching, no pain, or swelling or scabs or discharge), but this has not been repeated in the two attacks since. So far there are no other signs of lesions, or of discharge or any type. She does however seem to be more tired than usual.

I have assumed that this is a case of mild herpes, as it has coincided with my own mild symptoms (tingling/redenning only). Is there a more likely explanation? If it is herpes, is there still a danger that the more 'classic' symptoms will flare up in the future, or will the symptoms remain mild?  Thanks for any views on this.

[gracefromHHP]

I'm willing to bet that this isn't all herpes related even if indeed you did transmit your genital herpes to her. Has she been to her own doctor for further evaluation?

grace

[andy950]

Thanks for reply Grace. Her doctor did examine her but could not diagnose what it was.

Your comment is perceptive - and I very much hope you are right. My symptoms are also inconclusive. I have had tingling (in scrotum, with some reddening of skin) on and off over the last ten weeks (it was intense during two one-week periods) but no other herpes-type symptom except some fever during first tingling attack) - no lesions etc. but fatigue as if fighting an infection.

Doctors thought my symptoms were just anxiety but the fact that my partner had symptoms immediately after mine suggested to me it must be more than anxiety. Herpes seemed the only explanation, even without lesions etc. I took a type specific blood test 17 weeks from the last possible (external) exposure and was negative for both HSV1 and 2. I was negative for all the other stds also. But somehow I can't accept this herpes test result, because even though our symptoms are atypical I can't see what caused else could cause them.

Your further comments would be much appreciated.

[gracefromHHP]

This could be a bowel issue with her, an ovarian cyst issue or many , many other things. Herpes isn't very likely to be the cause of these symptoms.

grace

[andy950]

Thanks. Could I ask you if you think it possible my tingling symptoms could really be anxiety, as the doctors have told me - I've never had std anxiety before, but I still find it hard to believe that intense tingling etc could be caused by worrying. It does rise and fall with anxiety, but it also seems to have a mind of its own and is accompanied by a feeling of being unwell or infected. Is this a herpes symptom or is it just my thinking about herpes?

Your adviceor comment is much appreciated.

[andy950]

Sorry Grace, one more question so I'll put the two questions together:

1:  Is it really possible for anxiety, rather thanany virus, to be the cause of persistent or regular tingling attacks in the genital area?

2:  Could the fact that I'm 50 years old mean that I should allow a longer time for antibodies to appear? My negative result at four months was seen as conclusive by my doctors, but I wonder if they shouldn't have allowed longer given my age.

Many thanks

[gracefromHHP]

Yes indeed anxiety can do a number on you. We get posts with that being an issue every single day here.  Herpes would not cause persistant and regular tingling in the genital area.

Your age doesn't have any effect on the time it takes for antibodies to appear.

Oh and for pete's sake dear - you aren't that old yet!!!!

grace

[andy950]

Thanks grace - that's made my day

[andy950]

You've mentioned that blood tests are not as good at picking up HSV1 as they are HSV2, and that even Western blot is only 90% accurate on HSV1. I've also seen figures showing that at four months well over 90% of HSV2 infections will have turned positive but only 75% of HSV1 infections.  

My test at four months was negative for both HSV1 and 2. I still have a residual fear that I am infected. Would it be right to assume that if do tour out to have an infection, it would almost certainly be HSV1 not HSV2?


Thanks

[gracefromHHP]

I don't think you have genital herpes at all let alone hsv1 genitally. Just tingling and no obvious lesions can be many, many different things.  Also hsv1 genitally tends not to reoccur either so I doubt it's an ongoing issue in you.

I don't see any reason at all for any continued testing for herpes in yourself.  It's time to put herpes to rest - it's not the issue here.

grace

[andy950]

Thanks, I hope you're right

I'm not afraid of the disease, just hoping to save my marriage/children/life. I made one stupid mistake in two decades and I can't seem to quite escape from the consequences. Just as I'm beginning to think I may not have herpes after all, I've now found a symptom that looks like HPV, which I had twice tested negative for, but in a different place so I may not be clear after all. It's so depressing. I was encouraged into making my mistake by someone who assured me that I could not catch anything if I was protected. It's my own fault, I shouldn't have listened, and just said no.

[gracefromHHP]

I'm not sure how you are getting tested for hpv - there's no a commercially available hpv test in males.  Not to add to your anxiety - just wondering.

grace

[andy950]

Answering your question from last month- I'm not sure sure about the US but in Europe you can get PCR swab tests for HPV in private clinics. However these are potentially misleading - because they're taken from the urethral opening the impression you get is that this is a test for HPV throughout your system but it isn't that. I've since tested with 'dry swabs' of other possibly affected areas - altough few clinics will do this - most just do the urethral swab. I've posted a question to you about this as part of a separate discussion on HPV and fingering.

Meanwhile on herpes, I beginning to think you were right - I've since tested negative again for both hsv1 and 2, at 24 weeks. Is that reasonably conclusive?

Sadly I would happily take herpes if I could swap it for the high-risk HPV which I seem to have contracted (at least on my fingers) and which I dread I may have given to my partner.

[gracefromHHP]

No need for additional testing if you tested negative via igg blood testing at 24 weeks.

grace

[AlbumLeaf]

I'm in the same boat here, my symptoms just don't seem to stay away. I get the intense itching, tingling, and burning, without classical herpes lesions. I do get some redness and painfully inflammed hair follicles, but none of the clustered blisters. Although I feel as if I have it, even at 6 months my test results are coming back negative. Its hard to believe that anything else would be the cause of persistent reoccurring irritation with such intensity- especially since it is soo localized... I can't convince myself that I don't have it and am terrified of passing it on to future partners (I'm just starting to see someone new). If you figure anything out let me know, I'm in the same boat as you and have been for the last 6 months- I know how you feel, it is really starting to take an emotional toll on me.

[andy950]

Sorry to hear you had the same problem. Have you got tested in the six months since you posted? I tested negative at six months but I still get some symptoms, tingling around the genital area, although it has reduced in frequency and intensity. I can't bring myself to test again - mainly because I suppose that if I'm one of those who gets a false negative at six months I might just as easily get a false negative at one year. And if it is positive, after all his time I'd probably rather not know... However it would be interesting to know if anyone else tested negative at six months and then turned positive on a later test?

[andy950]

Dear Grace

Sorry to post yet again, but I was stressed by the following unexpected symptoms and would really appreciate your opinion.

In December my daughter had a raised red 'boil' on her buttock, which burst to reveal yellow liquid. There was severe pain when it burst but this subsided quickly. The boil healed up over about four days.

In March she had a recurrence of the boil in the same place, but this time it seems she just had a red spot, which wasn't raised and there was no bursting or fluid.

In May she suffered from regular urgent urination - going many times to the toilet but for no reason. This made her very anxious. The symptoms went on for over a week. She wasn't unable to urinate - when she did urinate each day it was normal and without pain, but she would then have many false urges during the day. These only seemed to occur when she was at school or away from home.

We took her to the doctor who suspected a bacterial infection and did various tests (urine, blood) but found nothing. I don't think the blood test would have covered herpes (she is only a child), but I don't know.

I think she may also have had some small scratches/sores on her upper thigh around this time. I didn't look closely but asked her what they were and she said they were 'old' and not important. She hadn't reported any pain from these.

I understand that the frequent urge to urinate could mean herpes but have heard that  this would normally only occur during the primary infection, not a recurrence. If she had herpes, presumably the 'boil' six months earlier would have been her primary?  

My questions are : could this be herpes and if so, is it likely that it is a mild form that will not affect her much in future?

Please let me know your thoughts on this,

Many thanks

andy950

[andy950]

Grace - please reply. Further to my previous post I have just found out that my daughter has developed her third red 'boil' ion six months, in the same place below the buttock. It has burst and left an unlcerated crater. It is not very painful except when she sits on it.

I know people get recurrent boils but this seems too much of a coincidence. I get what I think is herpes in October, my wife gets symptoms around the same time, and our daughter in December. The fact that she gets it on her bottom would fit with the fact that she could have picked up the infection sitting in her mother's lap - my wife's had a sore on top of her thigh.

I am terrified about this - even if doctors believe this was caught through casual contact, they may have to report it as possible abuse. Is there any evidence that casual transmission to children can happen innocently in this way?

[andy950]

Dear Grace

Please answer when you have the time. My daughter's boil has gone but she now has a whole range of what look like pimples - raised bumps with yellow centres spreading across the lower half of her left buttock. They are spread out, not clustered closely together. They don't seem to itch much or cause much discomfort, but they are still new - they were just tiny brown dots like moles the day before.  My fear is that no one will believe these could be caused by non-sexual contact - only a couple of sites I've seen make the point that if you can be affected anywhere in the boxer shorts area, then non-sexual transmission to, for example, a small child that sits in your lap, is possible. The only time my wife had sores, they were on top of her thighs (see my earlier post).

Many thanks