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Hormones after total hysterectomy
by sippy, Jun 21, 2006 12:00AM
Hello,
I was wondering if any of you all have been put on hormones after a total hysterectomy. My doctor says there are too many risks and I don't need them...I am 38. I don't know what to expect here 2 weeks after surgery, I keep waiting for a hotflash or something weird to happen. :) What can happen if I don't take them? I've had nightmares of growing hair on my face or my voice getting manly. Are my fears real? Can anyone share their experience or knowledge about hormones?
Thanks,
Sippy
I was wondering if any of you all have been put on hormones after a total hysterectomy. My doctor says there are too many risks and I don't need them...I am 38. I don't know what to expect here 2 weeks after surgery, I keep waiting for a hotflash or something weird to happen. :) What can happen if I don't take them? I've had nightmares of growing hair on my face or my voice getting manly. Are my fears real? Can anyone share their experience or knowledge about hormones?
Thanks,
Sippy
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~Tascha
:)sippy
I hope this helps!
~Tascha
I'M LIKE YOU WANTING TO KNOW WHAT TO DO....I'M ONLY 5 DAYS POST OP. THE DR. GAVE ME THE PATCH TO USE...BUT, TO WAIT AND SEE IF I ACTUALLY NEED THEM...SOME WOMEN DOES JUST FINE..HOW HAVE YOU BEEN FEELING? ANY HOT FLASHES?
peace,
Anne
I did post some stuff recently on hormones (it is a jungle out there)....something to Mammarabbit, Tybear, and...oh...New Life Gal. Check posts from late last week and then over the weekend. Sunday morning, I think...(like you will know it is a morning post!).
Look for info on Bioidentical hormones. Check Dr. Erika's site (spell all together and add a dot com to get her website) Women to women (all together and a dot com) and Christiane Northrup, MD (google to get her webpage, although she did start women to women I believe.
There is lots to learn...but, well worth the research. You will be ahead of the game if you start to learn about all of this now. It is overwhelming at first, but it gets easier and it is life-enhancing for sure. Read, research, and then formulate your own opinion since there are SOOOO many opinions out there about all this. I have been studying them and taking them for six years (Bioidentical hormones...not HRT). My sister for 10 years.
Cannot say enough. And, I had my ovaries removed due to early ovarian cancer diagnosis (exploratory surgery...found the malignant cyst).
Off to care for my patient. Look for the posts and just print and study later...gosh, I sound like a teacher...
Take care, Mary
Thanks for asking, I'm doing okay. Really weak and still having pain, I'm 15 days out of surgery and wondering when the pain will go away. How about you? How long did you stay in the hosp? One thing I've had a problem with is feeling like my bladder's been put in a different place and painful urination. I got put on something for bladder spasms. I don't know if what I'm feeling is a hotflash or not. I live in TN so it's real hot and humid-hard to tell what's a hotflash for me.
ShawnP-The pathology findings from my surgery showed thrombosed veins in my ovary. The doc. said this was unusual so now I am being tested for FactorV, they tell me it's a bloodclotting disorder, I don't have a appt. w/ the hematologist until 7-11.
:) Sippy
I am 26 years old and just had total hysterectomy forr severe endometriosis and my doctor has given me hormones called Prometrium 200mg and vivelle-dot and those things gave me crazy mood swings so I took the patch off and stopped taking the prometrium. I have three little kids and I don't have time for the major mood swings and on top of that I run a daycare center. I just had my hysterectomy five weeks ago and I may have had five hot flashes all together. I am not taking anything now and I feel great; do I even need to?
Good luck.
As a lawyer, I am appalled too.
There are so many "layers" to all this. I mainly study the bioidentical hormones, which actually Dee was on, since the Vivelle Patch is a bioidentical Estrogen, and Prometrium, which is a Bio Progesterone which most take orally (Dr. Northrup, in her book, "The Wisdom of Menopause" ...a must-read for all women in my opinion) says that although the manufacturer of Prometrium does not recommend it, you can open the capsule (I have done this) and put the cream on your body if you want to by-pass the liver and also if you want to avoid getting sleepy from the product. Some women want that and so they take the higher dose of Prometrium at night. The progesterone itself will make you calmer, but will not tire you out (unless the dose is too high....but you would get sleepy in about twenty minutes if this were the case) but it is a by-product of the hormone pill that causes the tiredness.
To Dee...you have had three children and so you might have more protection for awhile against the effects of not having the release of Progesterone any longer, but most women feel the effects of the loss of this hormone after a surgical menopause, in particular. I felt the effects of no progesterone and no testosterone three months after my surgery and I did not feel whole again until I was all balanced out with the bio estrogen and progesterone and also the testosterone.
Please arm yourself with information so that if a symptom comes about that you have trouble diagnosing....always look to hormones first. I had severe leg cramping for about six months and it did not decrease until my progesterone levels were balanced out. I was too low in this hormone and it was likely because I was in a stressful job and the progesterone that I was using (cream rubbed into the skin) was being made into cortisol. There is so much to learn regarding all of this, but you need to research it all so that you can understand how the body uses hormones to protect and how you need to stay balacned.
Northrup's book gives good information, too, to those who do not want to use the hormones unless it is as a last resort. I have more information regarding all of this on my profile and on my journal entry.
For Dee.....just remember, too, that your body has been through trauma due to the surgery and so it would take time to adjust hormonally anyway.
Well, good luck to all. This is a huge and controversial topic, I know....But, there should be something out there to safely help you. Just keep reserching.
Mary
Welcome to the community,
Mary 53
Susie
julie
On my way out the door to work, but I will say this...the bioidentical hormones are not HRT. Media (mis)information regarding hormones and lumping all of them into one big pool based on the study in 2002 Women's initiative had everyone running away...including those interested in the Bio's.
I just posted some info on my profile regarding the bio's...although I will post more since right now I cannot recall if I posted the information on the difference between the two in more detail. I will check in later, or you can leave a message. Ovarian cancer cells were found in a cyst that was drained and so that was why I had my hysterectomy in 2000. My oncologist started me on the Vivelle patch (a bio) but I later learned that it needed to be supplemented with Bio Progesterone...I am getting off track here. This is a passionate subject for me in case you cannot tell :) but it is controversial, too. There are women who cannot take estrogen for sure, but more women than not can take some supplementation according to my research. And, why more women are not told of the healthful benefits of adding Bio Progesterone is beyone me.
"Wisdom of Menopause" is a great resource and gives many options and explanations...whether you take hormonal supplementation or not.
Late for work :)))
Mary
Good luck and good health.
One thing you can do is to get your tumours checked for eostrogen receptor activity. If your tumours were highly eostrogen receptor actiev then in threory increased oestrogen will have a negative result. OVCA related to Breast Cancer (e.g. through BRAC gene) will likely be highly active. But if the activity is low then the risk is not greatly increased.
Remember also that for young women, the birth control pill/hormones was found to be protective and had almost the reverse risks to older menapusal women. So what the risk factors are for young women in surgical menapause is a difficult one and there is little to no data on this.
As Mary said earlier, do your own research and be open minded and formulate your own thoughts and plan that you feel comfortable with. If you ask 10 doctors you will get 10 different answers and many wont actually be based on more than rumour ( as they often wont have actually done any research).
I have spent a fair bit of time researching this and I do feel empowered. Your life - your decision.
It sounds like you trust your doctor...always a good thing. But, have you had a second or even a third opinion? I obviously don't know your GYN history, but from the things I do know just in general, it sounds as if your body is out of whack hormonally.
The hysterectomy just sounds like such a drastic measure to me. I think I am finished with sugar coating my message...Surgical menopause stinks. Having said that, practically all women on this forum have not had much of a choice regarding this issue since once cancer is found...they usually take everything.
And, then there is the whole controversy regarding hormonal therapy and the tragic job the media has done scaring women half to death by lumping all hormones into one category and calling all of them "bad" even though there are some good alternatives out there.
I use three hormones and pay about $100.00 a month for them (and that is with help from insurance)...have for 7 years and will for the rest of my life. I don't use HRT synthetic drugs, but instead, bioidentical estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone. The Progesterone is the critical one in my opinion, but it is not able to be patented since once it gets in our body it acts the same as the progesterone we've produced naturally. So, doctors often don't have much information on this, or they have misinformation on it since Progesterone is often confused with the icky Progestins that are used in birth control pills and Provera and Prempro. And, many doctors think you don't need the hormone if you don't have a uterus.....EEEK!!!! We have receptors for this hormone in our brains, our lungs, etc. It helps alleviate foggy thinking, bone loss, soft tissue joint/muscle pains, etc.
PLEASE research this further before you make a final decision. Given that not all women do not respond equally to the removal of the ovaries (and, remember that even the uterus produces hormones) not all are going to suffer in the same way, but this only makes matters more confusing.
Two years ago I suffered for six months with horrible leg cramps. It was not until I was tested and found that my levels of Progesterone were too low (even though I'd supplemented with this for years) and the leg cramps were a symtom of that. But, it took trial and error to figure this out and actually I had to figure this out on my own. A new hormone specialist had changed my script for progesterone from a cream to an oral product and it was then that I started having problems.
This doctor suggested that this was all in my head and that raising my level of progesterone, and changing from an oral bioidentical back to a cream bioidentical was not going to help. Luckily, I listened to my instinct...changed "hormone specialist" doctors and after my last visit with him, I ran to the store to get some over the counter progesterone cream just to try to kick start replenishing the hormone I was so low in...and, honestly, the help was almost instant. Leg cramps gone. If I'd waited longer, it would have taken longer for the levels of this hormone to build back up. I now see an awesome specialist and in fact have had to go to a rather high dose of progesterone just to keep me sane.
OK....lots of info here. If you add a profile to your name on this site, your name will turn blue and you can exchange messages with others...check your old posts, etc. I encourage you to try it. I was resistant at first, but now I really see the advantages having a profile.
I named some resources that might prove to be helpful for you. They are listed on my profile if you want to check them out.
Good luck to you. I do hope you start to feel well again soon.
Mary
Take care,
Debbie
Just today I got a message forwarded to me that the Head Courts are now getting involved with all of this and wanting to monitor the FDA more closely since (in some cases such as in the case of Wyeth trying to encourage the FDA to ban Estriol, a very weak and safe estrogen that is balanced with Progesterone to help women survive surgical menopause as well as for those having difficulty with natural menopause). Sorry...getting off track here. I have written letters to Congress this week about all this and I am a bit enraged about all the misinformation that is given to women regarding the hormone situation.
And, I am sorry that you, Chelan, were given bad information, too, by a so-called Menopause expert. This is not the first time I have heard of this...I have a friend who went to a Menopause expert and was given the same synthetic, non-balanced run around. And, when Katie Couric did the special on Menopause and its treatments two years ago, the "Director of the Menopause Society" actually admited he'd made a false statement when he said that the Synthetics and the Bioidentical hormones were exactly the same. He retracted the statement the day after the two-day series ended. Oh, and then it was revealed that the "Society" he belonged to is supported by Wyeth...the makers of Premarin and Prempro. Hmmm.
Based on hereditary and how many children one has had...body types...environmental issues...yes, there will be differences regarding reactions to radical hysterectomies (ovaries removed), but if you start to see a rise in cholesterol...blood sugar issues, cravings, bone loss, thyroid issues, difficulty thinking and concentrating (all progesterone issues...most progesterone cell receptors are in the brain, thus the trouble with foggy thinking, but they are also in the throat...allergies...asthma *sp?* ...and in the lungs), clumsiness and chemical sensitivities (a testosterone issue) I would suggest you run to an expert but make sure it is someone who understands the Bioidentical hormones. You still need a prescription to use them...and, although for years the idea was that we woud go by symptoms not blood or saliva tests, I do a blood test about every three to four months to make sure my levels are balanced.
Before I added the progesterone to my regimen I had bone loss and did not know it. I have worked out since 1982. But, a year after my hysterectomy, I fell and broke my wrist which prompted a bone density test and sure enough I was in osteopenia. I was able to reverse this by adding the progesterone, which I was in the process of studying anyway, and added more weight lifting and magnesium and Vit. D.
This is a huge topic. Keep the door open to any information you can gain from continuing to research this topic.
Mary
Aug 2007 a tumor developed in Vagina (had bleeding) that was removed and it was cancer. At the same time the original tumor growing again and it has matastisted to lungs. Had another round of radiation and now having chemo again. Having CAT scan Mar 3 to see if it is helping. I feel a lot has to do with estrogen. I just know if I had to do it all over again I would never have gone on HRT at 27. Everyone is different and everyone's body reacts different to things. I'm hoping this last treatments will shrink the tumors. I know I will not go anyhere near estrogen again.
Prayers and best thoughts to you all
Bonnie
Katie
To the ones that don't take them - How do you feel mentally and physically?
Also, why do you not want to take hormones?
Did you ask your doctor why he thought you should, and, what kind he recommended? And finally, do you understand the differences in the hormones that are currently available?
Not to drive you nuts, but there are different answers to the questions.
The whole issue is really really overwhelming and can be quite scary.
Your body will still have some natural hormones for a while. Don't panic!
Best wishes
Katie
I'm surprised at your turnaround in this area. Maybe you could share why you've changed your opinion over the last couple of years.
Sincerely,
Debbie
Hi and I know we go a long way back. I would never presume to say I know what another person is thinking and I know Katie well enough to know she can answer for herself regarding you question. I also understand why you asked it (again, I am assuming here) but, I may in fact be the one who steered her back to the foundation. Someone mentioned it on the new Hysterectomy forum on this site and Katie and I were both appalled that someone would even mention it. But, I figured that much time had passed since our problems with that group and so I checked out the website. I will say I was pleased that they seem to have "cleaned up" their act, if you will. When they were on the this website, first of all, it looked as if this was a place to go if you'd had a hysterectomy whereas their mission was to offer alternatives to Hysterectomy. You remember that the name of the forum changed before they exited the site altogether.
The OVCA site became involved when a group of us went over to the forum run by the HERS foundation after I was attacked when I offered some resources to a woman who was in the throws of surgical menopause. I recall we were all up in arms about that group. And, so I do recall that all of us were aware and very upset about the foundation, but I think it had more to do with HOW they responded to women's questions. We all know that at the time the wording was rude and harsh. But, I guess I am a believer in second chances and lately I have been very frustrated for many reasons regarding the treatment of women in the health field but particularly the treatment of women regarding hysterectomies...finding a rather nonchalant attitude...the "you don't need those organs anyway" type of reaction that I read about again and again.
I am going into my 8th years post-hysterectomy (radical) and fight all the time to stay balanced hormonally so that the symptoms don't get the best of me. I know when I am out of balance when my legs cramp uncontrollably, when my eyes need drops several times a day due to dryness, the battle I think I have won regarding vaginal atrophy with a possibility of having bladder surgery, the lack of concentration and dizziness that I still battle periodically and yet I know that perhaps they are not as bad as they could be because of the doctor supervised Bio hormonal treatments I use. Thanks to the hormones my cholesterol is good..thyroid is in control...bone health is just okay...fatigue is not a huge problem...and, on the job I can shut down after the kids leave (I teach) since I often have trouble stringing a sentence together after 2pm. I have studied this hormone thing for 8 years and feel I have a very good handle on it, but I know that not everyone has devoted as much time to this subject and so I am happy to share my experiences with people going through menopause, surgical or otherwise. But, why should one have to study for 8 years? Why is this a well-kept secret? Why all the mis-information, the lack of education regarding safe hormonal or supplemental health, as well as the lack of education regarding various treatments for women that may help a woman avoid a hysterectomy in the first place...and, the consequences/help they should know about after such a surgery.
I wanted to address the comment you made about the poster not wanting an opinion about whether or not to have the hysterectomy. I respect greatly what you say. I really do. I will be honest, too, and say that for the first time in 8 years I responded to someone saying what I said to that poster..." I know you did not come on here looking for opinions but rather suggestions" and then I went on to give my opinion about her having a hysterectomy. Chalk that up to frustration on my part.I respect everyone's right to making their own decision of course, but, I also sense that many of us are not strongly encouraged enough to get another opinion ....I was apologized to by both my Oncologist and my regular OB/GYN after my surgery. They literally told me that they'd used the "Sledgehammer" approach on me. Geez. However, I am not sure I would have done things differently. Having said that...I will say that if I can get one person to evaluate this decision when there may be other less harsh ways of handling a GYN problem...then I will be content. And, gosh...I will say it in a way that will be kind I hope. I noticed there was no shaming on the new HERS foundation site...and, I certainly would never shame anyone either. But, I look at my life before Hysterectomy and After hysterectomy and just keep plodding along.
Thanks for your time. Again, I apologize for answering for Katie....(Katie will forgive me) but I know that neither she nor I intend to offend anyone, but for some reason, this post hit our passion button, if you will.
Take care,
Sincerely,
Mary
I guess we have different opinions on what happened here a while ago. We'll have to leave it at that.
Regards,
Debbie
I do want to add a few things...and, I am with you on protecting the nature of this forum. I, too, have been here a very long time and I totally resent any bullying. I am sorry if what I said seemed to sound bullying in anyway. That was the furthest from my intent.
I also chose to have a hysterectomy. My doctor and I agreed that I would be a fool not to. I was dx. with cancer. I can read my words over, but I certainly know that I would never second guess anyone's decision and since she'd not had the surgery yet, I did not think I was doing that. In fact, that was my beef with the HERS foundation when they were on this site two years ago. They were ridiculing women for having had the surgery and that was uncalled for in my mind. I just really was hoping to send a message encouraging the poster to get another another opinion, but perhaps I did not word it appropriately.
I also understand that we all are passionate about this subject, and if I offended anyone regarding this then maybe in my case the passion directed me that way. I have also spent approximately 5 hours this weekend writing or talking to women with questions about the hormone issue...so this whole hysterectomy thing is on my mind big time.
If I worded myself inaccurately, do I dare throw in the excuse that a 17 year old girl was chasing after me last week at the Day treatment facility where I work....very angry that I'd given her an assignment that was one page longer than she'd thought it should be!!!! Hiding in my boss' office from an irate teenager is not my idea of a good week! First time this type of thing has happened in four years. And, my spouse has been working on a project for the past 5 weeks and I have not seen him for dinner except for two times in the last 5 weeks including most weekend nights. Perhaps I am spending too much spare time at the computer???
I look at this site as a safe haven and don't want to leave it that I have created controversy....I chose my words carefully in an attempt not to offend. Looks like I've said too much already.
Good Night for now.
Mary
Thank you to Mary, and I appreciate the time she put into that response.
Debbie I understood when I read you said you couldn’t believe I recommended that site. I know what you mean. But over time I have changed my opinion a little about them, or at least what they are trying to say. Everyone is entitled to change their mind! I am still leery of their presentation but…..it is the one site that I can think of that does actually try to present the other side of the issue.
After two years since my surgery, sure, I could just say “Oh whatever, go for it, every woman on the planet can have her uterus and ovaries yanked out, what do I care, big deal, it’s not my problem” and I could go have a glass of wine and watch Harrison Ford with Barbara Walters.
BUT I believe women are still having this surgery without being properly informed.
Sure I still take exception to the way we were spoken to by supposed representatives of the HERS Foundation, most definitely. But referring women to the Dr Northrup site is perhaps too broad. HERS is a bit more focused on the one issue.
Debbie, if my memory serves me correctly (my memory is not as good since having my ovaries removed) you had an early stage cancer (and I am very very sorry that you did). I think there is a big difference right there.
Yes Skyda was only asking about hormones, but, I can’t help but wonder if maybe she is rushing into it… as so many countless other women have. And continue to do. I think a lot of us just get railroaded into it. Just do your research, is all I ask.
Of course Mary nor I would never bully anyone here. I am surprised that you would imply anyone is being "bullied". Good grief. Mary is very tender and caring and sensitive.
I just think that if someone doesn’t have cancer, and it is not suspected that they might, they should explore alternatives while they still have the chance.
Like I said, no artificial hormone system will ever replicate your own. I know Debbie I have read that you feel that having excess weight keeps your hormone supply adequate, and that's great for you. I am really honestly happy for you. That doesn't work for me.
I would love to have my parts back if I could!!! ;-(
Very best wishes, as always,
Katie
By the way, I had borderline ovca, which most drs now not recommending hysterectomies for. I choose to have one.
Guess we'll have to disagree on this one.
Take care.
Debbie
I am having a little difficulty understanding what exactly is going on here.
We offer suggestions, alternatives and share knowledge and experiences all the time. That is a good thing. I can't imagine there is one of us who comes here regularly that would not suggest a second opinion in any case.
Unfortunately it is often not made clear ro a woman that there is more than one option in treatment for her malady. Look at how many of us seasoned vets have so little understanding about bio-identical hormones! We need eachohter to remind eachother there might be another way to deal with our situation....whether it is co-Q10, or mushrooms, or tea, or vitamins, etc.etc....chest ports, abdominal ports, carbo, taxol, avastin, cisplatin....on and on we go. We are eachother's support and educational system....asking a question should not present a threat any more than opening an alternative door.
I think you are all wonderful caring women. I respect each of you and admire your passion. Those who come here as "new-bees" are drenched in our sage experiences and benefit tremendously from our past experiences.
When we are able to get a woman to see a gyn/onc and have him/her perform surgery that is an incredible accomplishment.....if we can open a door offering a less traumatic and more natural treatment for a symptom.....well that would be a wonderful accomplishment as well. Knowledge is always a good thing.
So, let's keep supporting and educating eachother (and anyone else who we cana get to listen!)....you are all my ffriends and sisters. I love you all.
Peace.
dian
Peace.
dian
Debbie
I want to steer you to my profile. I have a ton of information there and I named the resources that were (and are) so very helpful to me regarding the hormone issue.
I also just posted more (exhaustive ...sorry!) information on the journal. If you click on my name, you should be able to click onto my profile. Then you will see where it says journal (read the profile, too, if you wish...) and then click "view journal" ..I think that is what is says. Then where you see 7 comments (or whatever the number is) click on that and all of the entries will show up. Some people have been leaving general questions and/or comments there.
Also, can I encourage you to go "blue"? I resisted forever....I have posted for quite some time now, but I finally put up a profile and went "blue"..and I am very glad that I did. I am not sure you can leave a comment on the journal unless you have a profile...and, I probably raised more questions than I answered....so, I would love to hear from you if you go blue!
Hope to hear from you again as you wade through this hormone (I hate to say 'mess' but you know what I mean!)
SIncerely,
Mary
Take care,
Mary
I have to go out of town for a few days but just wanted to say that I wish I'd had your doctor. My oncologist put me on the Vivelle Patch (bioidentical estrodial...there are about a hundred different types of estrogens but I was glad to be on the estrodial. I did use a little estriol mixed with estrodial a few years later and I liked it, but the estrodial only worked best for me). HOWEVER...and this is HUGE...IN MY OPINION (and in the opinion of researchers who have fortunately have done much research ...this stuff came out in the 1950's) the biggest culprit (and I wish I had a ton more time right now) is that not enough people know about the Progesterone. For your doctor to prescribe that is smart (I work in mental health..I am not a doctor although I regret not going to med school since this whole area of women's health is in such chaos as far as I am concerned).
I have been told, too, that I do not need the progesterone because I don't have uterus. I could SCREAM when I hear that. Most of the cell receptors for this essential hormone are in our brain, with some being in the lungs, etc. So, Foggy thinking...brain fog, whatever you want to call it..I suffered from this as soon as I stopped ovulating since I was not making progesterone when I was not ovulating (perimenopause...that is what I was in when they took everything throwing me into a surgical menopause). About two months after starting the progesterone I literally felt the fog lift. It was incredible for me. I also get horrid leg cramps and when I am low in progesterone my body goes crazy. If not for the progesterone, I don't know what I would do.
It takes about three months for the progesterone to totally leave your system and so you might not feel the effects of the loss right away unless you had been in preimenopause which I doubt you were given your age. Please arm yourself with info.
I agree with the poster about the premarin. When given that drug, the body continues to be in a state of estrogen dominance which only continues to cause all sorts of problems. It is also a drug that the body does not recognize and most women do not do well on the drug. It was produced in response to the bioidenticals so that it could be a patented item by the pharmaceutical companies...since the bio's cannot be pattented. Sorry...this is a passionate subject for me.
The theory as to why I had such cervical dysplasia (Had the leep procedure two years before my ovarian cancer dx) and the malignant cells in a cyst that was drained that led to the hysterectomy is that the estrogen sort of took over. If only I'd known then.....I may have been able to protect myself but then you know what they say about hindsight.
I use the bio estrogen so that my receptor sites for the progesterone will stay open and for several other reasons, but I stay balanced regarding the ratio of the bio estrogen to the bio progesterone. Estrogen in and of itself is not a bad hormone. It is what makes us female. But, it is a delicate dance. Your body will continue to make estrogen regardless of whether you have ovaries or not since it will be made by the fat stores and come off as a by-product called Estrone. This is considered a harsh estrogen and even though it will sustain itself at a lower level than before your ovaries were producing the hormone, you will still be in estrogen dominance, if you will. This is another reason I use the estodial which is not as harsh and is the estrogen we had cursing through our bodies while we were in our twenties. Oh, I also use testosterone.
OK...I had better stop. Please see my profile to read more. I just recently added comments to my journal. Play around with the "12 comment" section (It was tricky for me to get it the other day, but I got it...just taking time to get used to the format) and read the question/answer part that some of the other women and I have been tossing about. I also have some resources written in my profile that have proved to be most helpful to me as I continue on this hormonal journey for the eigth year now....
Also, consider going "blue" so that you can have a profile and so that you can respond to the journals of others...leave messages, check posts, etc. You can put down as much or as little info as you wish but at least you will have a profile. Makes life easier here on MedHelp.
I will be gone for few days and will check in later, though.
Take care, Mary
THNK YOU SO MUCH FOR RESPONDING TO MY POST. I AM SO SORRY TO HEAR WHAT YOU ARE GOING THROUGH! MY GOOD THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS ARE WITH YOU. IT'S SO CRAZY THAT YOUR TUMORS WERE RIGHT WHERE YOUR OVARIES HAD BEEN. THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN MY FEAR THAT MAYBEE THE SURGEON LEFT A LITTLE TISSUE, THAT COULD TURN CANCEROUS? HOWEVER, WE CAN'T DWELL ON THE UNKNOWN OR WE WILL GO COO COO! I BELIEVE IN MY EVERY BEING THAT I DID THE RIGHT THING, NOW I JUST HAVE TO DECIDE WHAT TO DO NOW THAT IM IN SURGICAL MENOPAUSE AT 37!
TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF AND STAY STRONG AND POSITIVE! YOU WILL GET THROUGH THIS!
MICHELEJANINE
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR RESPONDING BACK TO ME. I'M LEAVING THE HOSPITAL TODAY. I'M STILL VERY SORE AND WILL BE GOING HOME TO MY TWO TODDLERS AND BABY. THIS WILL BE INTERESTING! THANK GOODNESS MY HUSBAND TOOK THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS OFF OF WORK TO HELP ME! I NOW HAVE A LOT OF READING AND RESEARCHINGTO DO NOW THAT I AM IN SURGICAL MENOPAUSE! I DEFINATELY WOULD NEVER TAKE THE SYNTHETIC HRT, HOWEVER, I KNOW BEING MY AGE I STILL NEED TO BE HORMONALLY BALANCED SO I DONT GO COO COO! LUCKILY, I HAVE A GOOD PSYCHIATRIST, ACCUPUNTURIST AND ONCOLOGIST. I JUST HOPE I MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION REGARDING MY MENOPAUSE TREATMENT!
TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF AND STAY POSITIVE!
LOVE MICHELEJANINE
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR RESPONDING BACK TO ME. I'M LEAVING THE HOSPITAL TODAY. I'M STILL VERY SORE AND WILL BE GOING HOME TO MY TWO TODDLERS AND BABY. THIS WILL BE INTERESTING! THANK GOODNESS MY HUSBAND TOOK THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS OFF OF WORK TO HELP ME! I NOW HAVE A LOT OF READING AND RESEARCHINGTO DO NOW THAT I AM IN SURGICAL MENOPAUSE! I DEFINATELY WOULD NEVER TAKE THE SYNTHETIC HRT, HOWEVER, I KNOW BEING MY AGE I STILL NEED TO BE HORMONALLY BALANCED SO I DONT GO COO COO! LUCKILY, I HAVE A GOOD PSYCHIATRIST, ACCUPUNTURIST AND ONCOLOGIST. I JUST HOPE I MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION REGARDING MY MENOPAUSE TREATMENT!
TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF AND STAY POSITIVE!
LOVE MICHELEJANINE
It took me 8 months to realize I needed the progesterone. Three months after the surgery I thought I was losing my mind. I researched and researche as I was told too that I did not need the progesterone. This is a fall out from the whole deal with the drug Premarin. They found that women needed PROGESTIN...Please note spelling....it is often confused with Progesterone..it is a synthetic progesterone. It is to protect the uterus for women on Premarin so they don't get the rare Uterine cancer. It is icky stuff in my mind. And, the reports substantiate this.
However, the Progesterone is the hormone that helps with anxiety, calmness, asthma (because of the receptors in the lungs) smooth muscles/joints ....Reason we get cramps during our periods was because of low to no progesterone....that is why when I am not on it, my legs constantly cramp. It also helps with bladder issues....
Please..(and I know I am passionate about my mission, but I do respect that people can decide for themselves) PLEASE read up on bio progesterone and arm yourself with knowledge.
I will add that I do not care for oral Progesterone (Prometrium) a bio oral. I just did not do well on it.
Northrup covers much of this including the deal on Prometrium in "Wisdom of Menopause".....
Going to a conference and ride is almost here...
Sincerely,
Mary
thanks for responding to my post. Did they remove both of your ovaries? Are you on the bioidentical form of estrogen? If you are not taking any progesterone, how are your moods? i'm really worried about going a little coo coo! I started my natural hormone replacement the day after my surgery before i had any symptoms of menopause. Do you think that was the right thing to do, or should i wait a liitl bit to see what my body does? Just curious what other people suggest who have gone through surgical menopause before "their time"!
Thanks again-
Michelejanine
P,S, Wishing you a speedy recovery.
HRT is very personal and it is important that you discuss all your fears with your doctor and if you are still unsure then go for another opinion.
Pam and I had surgery on the exact same days (slightly different types, but close enough..right, Pam?) back on September 13, 2000. I think we both have known since we met each other that we have agreed to disagree on this hormone issue, if you will and I am grateful that we have stayed friends. Dare I say, too, that if for whatever reason on earth you decide to use anything hormonally at some point...I would absolutely be here for you and would never say "I told you so.".... I just want to keep with encouraging all of you to do your own homework on this matter.
Ever since I took a Statistics class (which I was NOT looking forward to...and it almost stopped me from getting a Master's degree) I have become much more skeptical when people tell me things...that is why even though I go into the hormone issue ad nauseum, I of course continue women/men to keep doing the leg work necessary to get to the bottom of all of this....
Actually the bioidentical hormones have been studied since the 1950's. I just got home...would have to dig out two of my books, but I can give the references or at least guidelines to where the studies are located regarding the efficacy of these hormones. But, if any of you do decide to continue to research this, just keep in mind that you need to study the reason why it is CRITICAl to remain balanced in the hormonal area. As I count in my head right now, I have read 11 books on the matter of natural hormones and have spoken to 5 doctors on this (all in agreement on the effectiveness of the bio's and the safety as long as a woman is monitored and it is approved by their own doctor since you do need a prescription...and, yes, I know that some will be told not to use them, just make sure you understand why and know what you are asking for), pharmacists, studies on line, as well as testimonials by my sister, a nursing instructor and a published author on perimenopause, as well as myself and so it is not without research that I have approached this matter.
But, having said that, not all women will react the same to a surgical menopause and some will adjust better than others. Personally, I did not react well and I also know that when I am not on balanced hormonal bioidentical help, my blood sugar is affected, my cholesterol goes up, my joints ache, my bladder issues are horrendous, my legs cramp so badly that I can hardly bear it and the brain fog is just too much. But, again, depending on hereditary, number of children, etc, etc, Dr. Erika Schwartz does a nice job explaining why we are in a bit of a hormonal crisis and also why certain women may need them and others may not have as high of a need although as Pam said, of course this is a personal choice. But if you monitor your health from the inside out, be mindful that hormones control so many bodily functions that you should always look to an imbalance (or lack of hormones) when things are not going well. You may or may not decide to use these of course, but arming yourself with knowledge will help you be more at peace with your decision...again, my opinion.
And, Pam, I am glad you responded. And, yes... I love you, too! Which is why I always respond back to you and hope that I don't sound like a totally broken record...I know you looked into the progesterone once, but keep up the research and just compare notes as to how you felt then and how you feel now. AGAIN...MY OPINION here, but I would suspect that the lack of progesterone is what caused those darned cysts...that was the final suspicion in my case for the dysplasias and the ovarian cysts...I do think it is a shame that you were given the estrodial and not the progesterone...So, of course, I am not upset...frustrated probably because I do know you and I honestly want you to feel your best. I mean, I don't always feel my best, but I will not give up trying to feel as well as I can as long as I am confident in what I do, so if I can encourage you to check all of this out again...then, try as I might once more. Just trying to get the word out there that this could be the answer we are looking for. And, yes, of course I am careful to NEVER lay out any guarantees since medical science is not a perfect science, but for me what I have learned has improved my life to a certain extent.
Gotta go to the grocery store and get ready for tomorrow.....
Sincerely,
Mary
It's MicheleJanine. How are you? Thanks for all of your advice and resources. I have been home from the hospital since sunday and am doing ok. I was up till 3 in the morning last night going to all the site that you suggested. I love my laptop! I can just lay in bed and read read read! Last night was the fifth night since my surgery and i woke up in a pool of water with my jammies stuck to my skin. My first night sweat! Oh it was lovely. it hit me today that i am officially in menopause at 37. I started taking my bio-estriadol and estriol and 50mg of progesterone the day after my surgery and thought that i would not get menopause symptoms. Obviously i don't know eneough about menopause yet! Does it take awhile for the hormones to kick in or do i need to change the dosage around? I see my oncologist tomorrow and have been making my list of questions for him. Tomorrow i will get the pathology report back and praying that no cancer cells will be found. I probably won't sleep much tonight as i'm a little anxious about tomorrow. Do you think the bio-estriadol patches are better? I am taking a very low dose of oral estriadol and estriol. After all that i read last night, creams, and patches seem to be better that oral doses? I am soooo confused on what to take and what not to take. I hate the idea of having to take any hormones, but because of my age i do feel it's important to be balanced for a few years. I just want to make the right decisions. Because of my family history of ovarian cancer, i am hesitant to even take estrogen hormines, even the natural ones. I do feel that natural progesterone is important and ok to take. In your opinion, would it be ok to only take natural progesterone, or do they need to be taken together for proper balance? Also, since they removed everything, includiong the cervix, but they left the appendix. Is all my hormonal tissue gone from my womb? Or can my hormones still feed on something down there that could turn into cancer later down the road? Just wondering. I guess i'll just keep reading. Also, I do believe prior to my hysterctomy, that i was perimenopausal, as i had my left tube and ovary removed in 05. I began getting mid hot flashes and sweats, but not like the one i had last night!! Also my last 6 periods kept coming earlier each month, when i was usually normal, day 29 or 20. they were very heavy for 5-7 days. my last few periods were day 20 thru 25. Could I still be hormone tested tomorrow to see what my body is lacking, or will it not work because i don't have my organs anymore, and just had the surgery? Thank you for always responding back to everyones questions. You are truly a blessing to us all, as i am sure others will agree!
Hope you are feeling great today-
Thanks again,
MicheleJanine
Barb 43
There is a huge school of thought on the Progesterone issue. I, too, thought for years that I needed it and at first, it was very helpful for me. But as the estrogen was changed on me... and, the dose of that was lowered and the Progesterone was raised (particularly in the past two years), I felt worse and worse and baffled, too.
I found information that is of a smaller camp of believers that women without ovaries cannot utilize Progesterone. As I have weaned my body off of the progesterone and stayed only with Estradiol (considered the best choice for estrogen so your body does not resort to making Estrone ... a less safe estrogen than Estradiol..... Estrone is the menopausal body's estrogen that is the by-product of fat which the body will make because our bodies crave Estrogen) along with a little testosterone, I have started to feel whole again.
I have also reversed my bone loss and decreased my fatigue. I also have been able to walk again with comfort since my feet were paying a high price for the lack of optimal levels of estradiol in my system and I started to feel almost crippled this summer. Very scary for me. Frankly I am surprised I have had such results. I need to watch the levels of Estradiol and testosterone so that I do not have an excess (something that could get me into trouble) but I am very comfortable with what I do.
I have been following advice by Dr. Vliet, particularly from the book, "Screaming to be Heard." It is a huge book... and older, but it has been updated and is also the same info she gives on her website.
I will send you a private message. I see this is an older post, but I also know that since Medhelp has recently been putting tags down at the end of a thread to show related threads, it is going to be nearly impossible to keep old posts in the attic, so to speak:)
Mary
Wow... I have not been on the forums for a few days and yet I thought I should check in tonight. I will have more time this weekend, but for now, I can say that I stand by the post I wrote just above your comments (the November post on this thread). I continue to get great relief following Dr. Elizabeth Lee Vliet's information. The Vivelle patch (Bioidentical estradiol) and testosterone, with No progesterone has been the way to go for me. I have fewer and fewer aches and pains in my legs and in my joints and my FEET. AMAZING. I thought I was heading for a life of NO walking... so much pain that came on this summer. There are soooooo many hormone connections involved with the two hormones I just mentioned (Estradiol is a type of estrogen and I will use ONLY that as a supplement from now on) that it baffles my mind.
I finally ordered my own copy of the book I recommended ("Screaming to be Heard") ... I had borrowed a copy from a friend and could not put it down. I continue to follow the advice in that book and am armed with info and results when I see my doctor in February.
The coldness you speak of can be related to Menopause for sure... thyroid issues and hormones and such. I spoke with another poster recently who found a ton of information in Vliet's book regarding this issue, too.
Hope you get some relief soon...
Mary
I'll be reading!!
jorj
I have plans I have to attend to, but can return later today. Answers to these questions require more than just a few words, as you can probably imagine. In the meantime, take a look at my journal on Bioidentical hormones. I recently posted there with more current information. Click on my screen name (which you probably know) to get to my profile and to find the journals. This would be a good start ... it might clear up some of the confusion. You could also check more recent posts of mine by going to the 'posts' section of my profile. Many posts are about hormones. I would suggest you not go back past a year, though, since the current information is critical as far as I am concerned since I have more recently gotten great symptom relief.
Hang in there and I will check back later. If you want to leave a note that you saw this, that is always appreciated. Again, I will be back later, or I may start a new thread, so you can watch out for that, too. I would make it clear that it is a hormone discussion.
Mary
I was also told by about 4 docs NOT to take prog. because I have no uterus. I was told by ONE doc YES take prog. I have tried both taking it and not taking it. I have tried pharm grade lotion prog. I have tried premarin and estadiol, on and on and on . I have given up and am waiting to die.
Also forgot to add that i have read TONS of books and tried all the natural hormones, herbs etc. wild yam, chastberry, black cohosh, the already prepared mixed stuff you get at the store or health store. TONS and tons of herbs and concoctions, spent TONS of money at health stores, nothing worked. Also, vitamins, minerals, this that, that this.........no help, in fact the black cohosh, wild yam and chast berry to name a few made the hotflashes WAY worse. I know it says on directions that they will get worse before getting better, but they NEVER got better in my case, only worse...after taking the herbs for as long as I could humanly stand it. Approx 3 weeks to 6 weeks....no help only worse....don't know what to say, I am bitter, I give up. I feel no one has the same symtoms and probs (exactly) that I have, and that no one can help because they don't get it. The docs certainly don't have my symtoms or they wouldn't be working, because they wouldn't be able to hold a job with this **** I have. I have not worked for 6 years.
P.S I also got toxic shock syndrome a year after the hysterectomy and almost died. I believe because my body never recovered from the operation and immunities were low. The toxic shock was from a cut (not tampon) obviously cuz I had had the hysterectomy. How's that for an effed up story?
Thanks!
Oh by the way I went to the endocrinologist and had blood work done. He said my FSH levels are normal. I don't know how that can be since I had a complete hysterectomy 10 years ago and I have weaned off bioidentical hormomes completely for 3 months? I thought my FSH levels would be off the charts.
I am 53 years old and I just had a toral hysterctomy done in March this year. I do not take HRT pills, just thingking about them scares me. But, instead I take natural stuff, pills calld MenoSense by Lorna Vanderhaeghe. I've been taking them for the past month and I can't believe how well they work for me! No more night sweats and I sleep like a baby. Instead of getting 10 to 15 hot flashes a day I get like 2 to 3. Now, you have to give MenoSense a chance to work. In few months I was told by women that take them, that they will take away hot flashes for good. I'll let you know what happenes but in a mean time I suggest you take them too. Talk to your doctor and see what he thinks about them.
Good Luck to you....Liliana
To Mary 53, I went to another ob/gyn to try to get my hormone balance test done, I don't know why doctors around my area think you crazy to ask for that? Is it because they are men, I'm looking for a woman. But this doctor told me that I should not have been put on premarin due to my past blood clot disorder and asked me how I was doing with my hot flashes and moods. I told him that I was doing better with the hotflashes, but that I cried alot and he asked me about dryness, I can not relate to that as my husband has a totally bad back, but realized after he put me on progesterone that I was, he said all women get low on that after hyst. and he also ordered a test on my testosterone, when I went back he put me on a cream I rub into my wrists twice a day. He said it had bottomed out and I needed it. Don't really know what it does for me. But I really don't know what it does for me, but now that you have mentioned the fog, I don't feel I'm in a fog, just can't remember as well, lose my thought process when talking, and can't stay with a conversation, I start talking about something else before I finish my subject. Whatever has happened to me, I have lost my job from it and I worked at the same place for 7 years and have had this surgery two years ago. Who will want me now, I can't do a lot of things, the person I used to be is no more.