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invisible bugs (not morgellons) parasites or mites - dermo experts please help
i went to get a haircut a year ago, when i left i was infested with an unknown parasite, fungus or bacteria.
i know its from the hairdressers, within 10min of leaving i could feel them.
i thought they'd wash out. then i thought they were scabies.
then i called the hair salon to ask what they were, i got abused by
the receptionist and told he was on holidays.
i called back a week later, only to find out he had been fired - obviously for this problem~!
there is little to no symptoms other than being able to feel them all the time.
sometimes i get little pin ***** bites.
i tried everything, one thing that DOES at least wash loose ones down my body is Kerosene.
i found this out when i thought it was scabies, i used kero on my hair and guess what happened...
i ended up with 50 bites on my chest and about 30 on each lower leg/ankles.
whatever it is, KEROSENE will paralyze it long enough to move off my scalp.
heres something odd, a few days before the kero, i tried 'mineral turpentine' and it made them burrow into a frenzy and the sensation came back so strong,
it was exactly how bad it was the first day i was infected.
when i say i have used everything, i mean everything.. dont make me write a list of all available scabies treatments and home remedys.
this is not: scabies, morgellons, birdmites, contact dermatitis or the likes.
its contagious. people who have come to my house complain of being bitten,
they ask me if i have fleas. they seemed to notice i have a problem and disappear. this, by the way is all without me telling them i have a problem...
so, its not like they just think 'oh its in his head what a nutjob better drop him from the crew'.
they see the problem without me explaining.
the docs i have seen, sit infront of me scratching... all of them, all the time.
i have pointed it out, and im met with 'i'm always itchy, its the weather' or 'its because you are talking about it'.
i actually had to laugh at one, call them an idiot and told them to enjoy whatever it is they just got from me -they looked at my scalp (against my advice), with no gloves then started scratching at their arms like a flea bitten dog, within 2min they were constantly scratching at their head/scalp... and i ask her: so, let me ask you this: are you itchy at all right now? have a feeling of a hair on your face, or arm?
she firmly replied NO (while scratching).. still looking in here eyes i said 'dont like, i can see you scratching your hands right now'.
although not full vision, the human eye has almost 270 degree of sight.
i have lost so many friends. i haven't been able to work and i've spent all my savings on docs/dermos/treatments and obviously milk and bread.
i have nothing. no money. no friends left.
i know theres people who have had this problem and actually found out what it is,
but they dont come back and help others who have it. they just disappear out
into the world, obviously so happy they found a cure they couldnt care less about the community of people that supported them throughout their ordeal.
wow im sorry i cant help you out, but i sure hope you find out what it is youre looking for. I cant believe how dumb some doctors are, its almost impossible to get an answer you need. Ive been from dr to dr to dr about a recurring problem and not 1 of them seems to know whats causing them. and it can be pretty expensive. I am a student and dont make a lot where I work so ive already maxed out my $200 prescriptions insurance plan w/ my work -_- and im sure its even more worse in the states! Please keep me posted. would love to know what this is! best of luck, Amanda :)
this really does sound like what is going on with you. I got this from a website.
Bird Mite Infestation...
Who?...people with a bird's nest near the home, apartment dwellers with nesting pigeons, people with pets or other animals which are infested, farmers who raise chickens, people who obtain used furniture, carpet, clothing, etc, that has been infested. This can also include guests of hotels, office workers et al., when the buildings are inhabited by nesting birds.
What?...parasitic infestation from bird mites too small to be easily seen without magnification. Symptoms include pinprick bites, often intense itching with or without lesions, small reddened bumps, and a crawling sensation anywhere on the body; with increased activity at night. Some people label these the "creepy crawlies" or "nose ticklers". The intense itching and irritation on the skin is due to the mite's saliva. When a large area is covered with bites it will resemble a rash in appearance, and it is often mistaken for scabies.
Possible Bird Mite Infestation?
•Pinprick bites with or without lesions
•Frequently intense itching of the skin
•Vague sensation of crawling on the skin
•Bite marks and lesions that heal very slowly
•Increase of symptoms in certain areas of the home
•Increase of symptoms at night and in humid weather
•Physician suspects scabies but the treatment does not help
Where?...bird mites more commonly infest bedrooms and bathrooms, but will quickly infest the whole house. Mites will infest carpeting, bedding, upholstered furniture, clothing, etc. They hide in cracks, crevices and darkened areas in the home when not active. They tend to congregate where humans routinely are; such as near the computer, in automobiles, etc.
When?...bird mites are most active from dusk till dawn, but can be active at other times, especially when disturbed. Bird mites are very disruptive to our normal sleep pattern, causing many nights of lost sleep. They tend to be more active on damp, humid, overcast days and nights. Mites are less active during daylight hours, and they are less active on hot, dry, sunny days. Increased activity every seven days or so, when the new mites will mature. Mite activity also tends to increase around a full moon. Bird mite populations tend to peak in the late spring and summer, corresponding to an increase in the bird population and an increase in temperature and humidity levels.
Why?...bird mites are parasites they feed on living organisms; the female mite needs blood to reproduce. They are attracted to mammals by receptors for moisture, heat and CO2. They are aggressive and they often bite humans when their original food source has gone; as when the young birds leave the nest. They can quickly multiply into thousands, leaving the afflicted person with the feeling of being overwhelmed. Once a home is heavily infested, they are very difficult to fully eradicate.
Are you 100% certain that this is not it? You need magnifying to see them usually, it really sounds like this is your problem.
Possible Bird Mite Infestation? ----------
•Pinprick bites with or without lesions - NOT REALLY.
•Frequently intense itching of the skin - YES
•Vague sensation of crawling on the skin - NO. ITS EXTREME, AND VARIES.
•Bite marks and lesions that heal very slowly - NO. FEW TINY BITES AT MOST
•Increase of symptoms in certain areas of the home - NO - ONLY EFFECTED BY POISONS AND WEATHER.
•Increase of symptoms at night and in humid weather - NOT AT NIGHT. ANYTIME, WET + HUMID YES.
•Physician suspects scabies but the treatment does not help - OBVIOUSLY
it has a feeling like there is millions of them. whatever it is, there are millions of them.
when i said a list of what it could be, i mean a list of fungal, bacterical or parasites.
nothing thats been mentioned that i said IT IS NOT. IE: BIRDMITES ETC..... thank you.
sorry, i read in your original post something about pinprick bites. And so you know, birdmite multiplay FAST into thousands and thousands and thousands... and if your friends are coming over and itching its because your house is infected... and as for everyone else.. they jump...i have no other explanation. Sorry I tried to help you.
Lets try to organize a group or forum of others who are experiencing this mystery parasite/bug really connect the "dots", no pun intended. There seems to NOT be a concerted effort to collectively both catalog and share or varied symptoms. Why Now? Waht is needed is a central website hwere we control the content and members.. i
Check that out so I don't have to repeat myself. Our symptoms are almost the same. I know where I got it (working at a shelter, washed the shelter towels of an infested person with GLOVES ON). And I still got this dreaded problem. No other worker got it but me.
I get bit by invisible things. It happens day or night. It feels like pin pricks. Definitely. It causes intense itching.
But I know that shelter client had body lice. They treated him for it.
But now I'm thinking: what else can he have???
I don't know if you have body lice. The only time I saw a live bug, was after the shift where washed those towels. In the morning I saw a live bug crawl down my arm. I had fresh bites. By the end of the day I knew what I may have and have scrubbed myself clean ever since.
I have never seen a bug on me since then. But I continue to get bitten everyday.
Maybe we can brainstorm this out, someone or something has to help, I'm at the end of my rope and I'm wondering...how are you making out over there? You must be sick of this ordeal as well....
bites are very random most of the time, sometimes i get 2 or 3, i get a lot of itchy spots (or really small bites that dont show up).
if it is just scabies the bites will have burrows/small tracks.
i wish i had scabies lol.. at least i'd know what it is.
its becoming impossible to deal with mostly because of work and social reasons.
im not giving up.. im always doing something, inbetween waiting for specailist appointments that dont seem to help, because they always say 'we need to find out what it is to treat it'.. so yeh.. i've tried heaps of things and yet to find anything that really helps.
it has been over 2 years now and from the same symptoms as everyone before,biting,pricking sensation and treating the fleas,scabies and bedbugs it is now and for a few months really strange pattern. Still the people around me dont notice anything,even if they always scratch,touch their noses,eyes,ears,head...i have a friend who shares my room with me now and still she says she cant feel anything,she scratch as well. for the past few months it feels like it affected all my body,i have strange sensation around my body,like electricity on my skin and i see glitter everywhere,on my skin,clothes,furniture,bedding,they are smaall pieces and u can see it with sun,or lamp on. the glitter seems to go out of my body, i asked her today to watch her skin in the sunlight but she doesnt have it... i have been past 2 weeks in a special spa with hot water mineral springs and there i was so much better,no glitter,no scratching or electricity and very rarely bite or pinprick sensation like 2-3 times a day...i am exhausted and desperate,trying to get on with my life and hoping that one day this mystery will be solved
It's amazing...It could have been me writing your comment. We are "bugproblem twins". I have the exact same symptoms.
I've tried everything and even, a couple of times, when it got unbearable, I sprayed myself with raid. Isn't it bad?
I don't know what to do anymore.
But I don't think it's contagious cause I have this for at least the past 9 months and nobody else seems to have it.
I haven't told anybody about this except that stupid ignorant doctor that only told me to get Nix and prescribed cortisone cream for the itch. It doesn't itch, it bites.
Hi my nick name is resin669 and I have the same problem you have and I. Have done every thing you have and maybe a little more I have cut the wires off a lamp and held the positive and the negative in each hand and it worked for about a mouth no bites or crawling feeling in my body or face I thought I was cured then the started up again I couldn't understand it I even took all the Sheetrock out of my house carpet did the same to my car and still they or it still get me and for a long time no one els had it and now my 5 year old son has it and my wife has it too but my old est boy he's 12 he don't have it and he doesn't even scratch or anything I don't understand it one thing that claims. Them or it down is sound frequencies if they or it strata to act up I put this app I got on call frequencies annoyer it really works and vibrations also work just find a big speaker 12 to 18 in woolfer and turn up your music or frequencies for about 2 to 3 min it works for me but don't now how it will work for you but it's worth a shot it is not a cure more like therapy I hope it help b the way have u found out was they or it is all I know is it has behaveour patterns of all three kingdoms you can reach me 5052253727 I would really apresheate it hope you get better
I experienced something like this ah several years back. It drove me mad. The crawling felt like little invisible mites, and some were jumping off. Baths seemed to help. I am still unsure of the cause.
A few times I bought over the counter rash lotion from the drug store, I think with calamine in it. This helped when I had a breakout with weeping red bumps on my arms, but typically this condition had no rash, no discoloration, and no swelling wherever I was feeling itchy at. Just this sensation of crawling in my skin.
I never went to see an MD about this invisible crawling figuring they would think I was nuts. I eventually quit smoking and changed my diet. I had some food allergies still to this day I have ongoing health problems with occasional itchiness but nothing as intense, no crawling feeling. What helped me was lifestyle changes and repeated long hot baths.
We may have a solution:
Neem oil & flakes make the mites stop biting. Stop eating & stop having sex. It's a slow process but the biting stopped immediately. It's brown & smells like indian spices. Odorless MSM Sulfur Kills all mites within 4 minutes. We found using a combination of these two works the best. At night we mix: Lotion, Olive Oil, Vasaline, MSM Sulfur, Neem flakes & 2 to 3 drops of orange essential oil. Rub all over face, ears, nostrils & body all the way down & including toes. Vacuum carpet & upholstery daily. Put vacuum bag in a ziplock bag in freezer to use again next day. Sprinkle Borax or salt or a combination into carpet (even in car). Encase mattresses in bedbug bag & spray with rubbing alcohol before putting clean sheets on nightly. Shower with sulfur soap at least twice a day. Put dirty clothes in trash bags & twist tightly closed. Never wear anything twice without washing with 20 mule team borax & drying. 20-30 minutes in sauna over 150 ° when possible. Lysol wipes on hard surfaces then sprinkle with Neem if possible. Keep spray bottles of rubbing alcohol in each room for spot treatment. Cloves & Tea Tree oil helped to reduce but not as much as the items listed above. Nutmeg is toxic. Do not ingest nutmeg. Squidoo site is talking about invisible bugs too. Good luck & may you find healing in the new year!
To aaaaaaaarghBugs, Why do you believe you do not have Morgellons?
Many Morgellons sufferers cause people around them to itch. You say you were diagnosed with a cyst. That was two years ago. Are you better?
To the person named the 'bugproblem,' it sounds to me like you have Morgellons disease. The glitter you see on your skin, that comes from your body, that is a dead giveaway.
I first got this in 1992 when having sex with a young woman in my twenties. Tiny bite marks all over her back was what I first noticed. Then it felt like things were crawling on me an hour later. Then there were like seeds coming out of the bite marks/ pimples. Permethrin just made it worse. I gave away all of my furniutue, my car, threw away all of my clothes except for one change of clothes, shoes and my drivers licincse which I placed overnight in a freezer, woek up took a shower with permethrin shampoo put on the frozen clothes straight out of the freezer and caught a bus 1000 miles away and still was infested. The only thing that seems to help is salicilc acid shampoo and baby lotion. It does NOT get rid of it, but does stop the eggs or whatever from coming out of the bite bumps. It does lessen the itching. But as soon as I go around other people they pinch bugs off of themselves, look at them and bite them. It is like the eggs get on them immediately, even if they are ten feet away from me. I just ordered some ivermecton and am going to ingest a drop of it and see if this helps. Something about driving 18 wheelers seemed to get rid of the sever itching but reinfestation occurs when I get exposed to it. Seems like some people, myself included are super carriers of this stuff and it doesn't seem to affect some other people so bad unless I am around them.
and I think it is a dermodex mite, but am not 100 % sure. If the ivermectin helps then I will think it is mites. But I think used to have dogs that were on heartgard and that had ivermectin in it and it didn't seem to help them. So yeah, I don't know what it is.
i HAVE HAD SOMETHING LIKE SCABIES FOR A WHILE NOW DRIVING ME MAD.. SEEMS WORST AT NIGHT SO I THOUGHT OH SCABIES BUT MAYBE NOT AS SCABIES DONT JUMP, I HAVE THAT CRAWLING FEELING AND LIKE PIN PRICK SOMETHING LANDING ON YOU, I CAN SEE TINY THINGS JUMPING OUT OF THE CORNER OF MY EYE BUT CANT FIND ANYTHING..ANY IDEA'S ..I TRULEY AM DESPERATE..YUK DIRTY THINGS WHAT EVER THEY ARE.
I have had this since 2008. 15,000.00 or more spent. My life is over, lost everything. And I was an RN. I have been on all of it. One thing for sure. I am not crazy.....maybe a little now. But that is from the doctor's ! Tracking that you can see MOVE under your skin. And leaves a blood track. Damn, and they think I need to check myself in a mental hospital, while they see the TRACKING MARKS ! HOW STUPID DOES STUPID HAVE YO GET ?
I have been suffering for 4 years, pinpricks, scratching, itching at night more than the day. As soon as I lay my head down I get intense biting and itching, They are in my scalp. I have major hair thinning and the hair is dry and course. I have bald spots on the top on my head. I have seen two dermotoligists, and they say "its all in my head" If I put hydrogen peroxide, it burn and bubbles, it hurts a lot. I have lost so much and have no friends because no one believes me, even my husband. He said he would get it (as I watch him itch himself more than usual) I cry a lot and ponder suicide.
I have tried everything, tea tree oil, neem oil, bleach baths, ACV baths, Epsom salt baths, benzal benzoate, and they all burn. They just come back. I wash everything everyday etc.
To all those suffering with this biting, itching problem. I suggest you change your focus briefly and turn your attention to diet for now. This might provide a needed reality check one way or the other as to whether you have a parasite, or that the symptoms are really misleading and masking a health issue.
I know that it's been refuted by the author of this thread that this is Morgellons, but some of the others here, clearly are suffering from it. I've been in your shoes and thought I was infested too and I'm symptom-free (for about 3 years now).
Try and eliminate all sugar from the diet as well as complex carbs such as bread, pasta and even grains. No alcohol, no soda, no foods that are processed or that contain genetically modified ingredients such as corn or soy products. All these food feed the symptoms of itching. Try to get the body alkaline through diet. If you have a juicer, make green drinks. Stay away from too much fruit though as it too is a sugar.
Many people that have your symptoms and try the diet start to feel better. If after eating a clean diet for 3 weeks there is no improvement, then continue searching.
The problem is, you can expend all your energy treating for a parasite while disqualifying everything else that it might be, and yet you remain running in place. So try something new is my suggestion.
For some reason (and I've heard this before), some people with Morgellons affect others causing them to itch. Some do not. God help us all if there really is an infected mite that is so small it can pass disease on to others.
In the meantime, maybe look at something that outside your realm of thinking and give it a go. You might find yourself starting to feel better. Please note that it can take two or more weeks to start noticing a drop-off of itching.
If you want help with diet you can look at my website. Google: Diet and pH plus pH chart
This will lead you Morgellons Disease Awareness.
To headmite: You aren't crazy. Your docs are just ignorant to this burgeoning health problem. You appear to have the classic symptoms of Morgellons. Itching of scalp, worse at night, hair loss, stinging.
Do not give up and I hope you take my suggestions of diet seriously. You need to address internal, because this is not an external problem. Morgellons is a systemic illness that many, once they begin taking steps to heal their bodies, get their lives back.
I agree that internal treatment is key... but the truth is that there is a bug.
Collembola is what I found.
It glitters - can come in any color (including metallic), jumps, flies, can range from tiny to flea sized, seeks fungus and leaves fungus, molts leaving calcium casings, loves fabric, etc etc.
I thought I had scabies for 5 months, but finally the reality of mold in my house and a microscope helped me ID this bug. My derm thought I was crazy until he saw one crawl out of my skin and hop away.
They are damn hard to get rid of in fabric, still testing the options. I've soaked my clothing in ammonia, vinegar, cedarcide PCO, enzymes, borax, Odoban, Dawn.... I haven't found the magic bullet for clothing yet.
Fogging helps. So do IGRs. Swiffers are great. I spray with a mix of vinegar and 91% alcohol.
Blue Star Ointment
Mix of mustard powder, coconut oil, MSM before bathing
Essential Oils (I use the mix recommended by stopskinmites.com mixed with TickShield Tactical)
RX - Econazole cream and Ketaconazole shampoo.
I've had these in my eyes (the doc thought it was demodex, but it's not), ears (massive infection treated with abx drops), nose (saline/Alkalol rinse), privates (Vitanica suppositories), car (sold it - and fully disclosed the infestation in the ad!), moved twice (both houses had mold which attracts collembola), got rid of everything fabric I could manage.... in some ways I wish I had dumped everything.
Internally I take:
EDTA/heavy metal detox
Activated charcoal/mold detox
I think these things gave me Lyme Disease - I haven't seen a tick in 30 years.
The problem with IDing them is that they are the fastest bug on the planet, so you can't really see them in the environment... so glue traps, a microscope and vigilance. I hope to overcome them soon.
Yes, I suspect Collembola too. Or Collembola-like organism created using GMO's. We spray diluted MoldStaat into vents & on carpet & fabric using a 7.00 hand pump sprayer from Lowes or Home Depot. SPray carpet in car & at work too. SPray lysol everywhere alse as needed but MoldStaat is cheaper. So is rubbing alcohol. We add a few drops of essential oil like Eucalypsus or orande or peppermint oil into laundry with arm & hammer & Borax. Don't remove clothes from dryer until after your shower. (Or spray yourself down with rubbing alcohol & especially your arms & hands.) They will run from your arm onto the clothes you are hanging up. After bath or shower, mix coconut oil, essential oil, lotion & rubbing alcohol & rub all over especially ears & nostrils. Caladry clear helps keep them from burrowing but you feel crawlies even more. Mixing caladryl clear & rubbing alcohol kills until it dries anyway. Hibaclens is 5.00 for a small blue bottle (Walmart, walgreens etc) but a few drops lathered into hair works great. Then a few drops smeared all over body & using a nylon body brush does wonders. Think anti-bacteria, anti-fungus, anti-mold. I spent a year treating it like a bug without relief until I started treating it this way. Change what you use every few days because it will adapt & overcome. That's why I think scientists created it.
It's probably folliculitis, I went to several Dr 's and dermatologists, all idiots. Finally found a knowledgeable one and right away said folliculitis.
I had all the same symptoms as you and for months, my brother got it from me but everyone else in my family was unaffected.
Staph can be hard to get rid of without proper treatment.
Get Ivermectin!!!!!!!!!!! Best Solution is oral ivermectin or strotomocal that your doctor can prescribe. It paralyzes these critters and they die. There is also a product called Sklice that has just come out. It is a cream that is made with ivrermectin. This also kills them off your skin. It is a prescription. If you can not find a doctor to prescribe, go to your local animal feed store, they also sell ivermectin for animals. The lotion. It Works!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have suffered eczema all my life an was ten diagnosed with skin fungus. I have birds too, 9 in fact and treat them with a good mite oil from the vets called moxydectin. I know that itch drives you insane. I am in Australia and am on a new drug called "Floracor" which kills the enzymes the fungus feeds off, though very slowly...
It's been helping me I hope it will help you too. I got it from the health food shop
first be proactive;
you have to realize it is not in your head, but on you; and feeding off you. so you have to eliminate the way they engage.
you have to get rid of them where they are; on you and in your home and car and whatever you have interacted with. what you forget to clean will be what reinfects you. the phone for example. the headrest in the car, or seat, or steering wheel or gearshift lever.
honestly the car is full of them by now.
your clothes are too
the house is too. you are going to be a champion for disinfecting!
i do have to say that isoproyl works really well; you can soak things in it and they just don't survive. so you can use it on your head; yes it will burn but put on a shower cap after you spritz your head with it, stay that way about 3-5 min... gone. spray the car down and put plastic around the upholstery for a while so it doesn't evaporate too quickly to do the job; make sure you air it well before you get in later!
on skin; its different. and you can also try a couple things i know work.
the best i found is from new zealand; they ship slowly for free. its all natural and doesn't burn but i you think i am benefiting you are crazy; i had to order the stuff several times as i kept reinfecting after i thought i was all clear. i paid each time and i dont' expect them to thank me for recommending; i just know it actually worked.
if you don't actually eliminate them from your environment; it won't help. you have to
1/ seal the surfaces you use; get new bedding or completely seal your mattress in plastic. yep. it works to isolate them they don't come through plastic. get a plastic mattress protector. and make sure you clean it every morning with something that kills them.. and the floor has them in it; yes; you are shedding them and they are looking for ways in to you. so you need to clean it really well, regularly i used a spray of nature's eradicator (buy the concentrate and dilute per instructions)
and you need to stop wearing the clothes they live in.
what worked for me was to go and buy a bunch of really cheap clothes and wear them only once.
so far the best thing to make them go away is drycleaning; that costs more than cheap clothes.. but everything you wear you have to destroy or dryclean. nothing else gets them; i've tried boiling, i've bleached, i've done isolation and freezing. nothing works fully; and you are the guinea pig that finds out that it didn't work; so just make it easier.
sanity is cheaper if you just get rid of stuff; please don't give anything infected away!
i tried waiting 9 months and put on a hat and got reinfected! yes, i couldn't believe they waited that long. so now i realize there is no waiting them out, and no getting them to die in clothing without drycleaning.
if you use a jacuzzi that feels so good the bleach helps to get them quiet; sun exposure is good, being away from the house is great. you are the reason they thrive anywhere, but you have more of them at home than most places!
but you need to keep buying (i went to thrift stores and bought what i thought of as 'disposable' clothing, and when i change anything, i bag it up in plastic and it gets a garbage can goodbye!)
you have to be vigilant; i know its hard; wash down all surfaces you can with alcohol; bleach or lysol seems to work too. but you have to really remember ; i touched that, okay, or i brushed that or wore that. by now your entire world is infested, so you have a lot of cleaning and clearing to do!
the product from manuka natural for scabies has a soap, and an oil and a cream. it really works, but you will keep reinfecting if you use anything from before.
you can see the results the first time i used it i was thrilled.
it isn't as expensive to buy a gallon or 2 of nature's eradicator (on amazon) and a 'scabies' kit from manuka natural some alcohol and lysol and just go for it at the thrift stores... as it is to lose your entire life! i had such good results i was free in a couple of weeks.
that was after about 5 months of fighting and trying sulphur soaps, (burned myself) lots of hot baths, lots and lots of laundry; and many other things i wont' bore you with. so far as i can see the enzyme cleaner and the natural oils from new zealand work; nothing else i tried did. (by the way don't try to get around getting the real products from new zealand; i did try my own combos and they just didn't work; there are many species of manuka and tea tree and they all have different properties, i wish there were cheaper ones! i tried several that didn't work.). time is my greatest gift after all this; time for my life and self once again.
mankanatural.com is the new zealand site. you can also get other enzyme cleaners; i tried 3 different brands, the best of them for value was nature's eradicator. but i also wanted to not KILL myself with poisons; these will actually work and not kill you. i am happy to answer any ?? but i have looked and looked, and this is the fastest more efficient, and least expensive path i know, and it isn't undermining your already compromised health either
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