A little help?

[GroovyDeeDee]

Hey girls - I'm having a bad day, and could use a friend.  My letter of forgiveness to the other woman brought me a long way in getting her out of my thoughts and my mind, but sometimes, I'm still so mad and hurt.  I am 48 years old, and I will never know the security of an exclusive relationship.  I'm not sure I can forgive him for robbing me of that.

My heart is BROKEN still, and Brice can't tell me WHY he did what he did.  What I was doing wrong, so I can avoid letting it happen again.  

He was ready to put me and his two sons on the street for this woman, who was a liar and a cheat - all the things he says he abhors.  But of course, at the time - he was those things too.  

He is a good man.  I love him with all my heart, but I am hurt and bitter, and now more than ever I don't feel as if I deserve him.  I'm not sure I'll ever be the person I was when he loved me.  I'm not sure I'll ever be able to look at him, and not wonder if he's really here with me or not.  

I am hurting so much today - I just want this all to be over.  

[GroovyDeeDee]

Thanks everyone.  Today looks brighter!  I hope you're all doing well, too.  

[lovemykids465]

Thank you for your post on Forgiveness, You are right, I say I have forgiven Joe to his face but deep down I don't know if I truly have, We have decided to work through it all and are a better couple for it but I still can't believe he did this to us, But it did work some things in and out of our lives, things we both brought into our relationship from our youth that we did not realize needed healing and did not come out until now,

[TTinKKerBBell]

I'm so touched by everyone who came here to try to support/help You through this diffiuclt time.  My Heart is Still Heavy for You and I Pray that You find Peace.

[mami1323]

Aaawww Tink, that was a lovely sentiment at the end.  Love...haha, I couldn't help but laugh at your story of you giving the guy at the gym that woman's number and him actually calling it.  Too funny.  I've wanted for a long time to write to the other woman but never did.  I think perhaps I should've just to have gained closure.  It wouldn't have been a nice letter though.  More of an "I hope you fall in love, get pregnant, and find out that the man you thought you knew was cheating on you with a woman who couldn't care less that you existed." I think it would be other things in that letter that I can't type here ;)

[TTinKKerBBell]

About that word "forgiveness" again.  You don't have to go there to continue Your Marriage with Brice.  There's a certain acceptance of what he did when You "forgive" him and in spite of what You manage to say out loud it will NEVER be truly "forgiven" in Your Heart.  It will NEVER be acceptable what he did. It will hang between You forever.  You don't REALLY "forgive" and You sure as H*** don't forget - it's impossible  BUT that being said Your Marriage can survive this if its what You Both want and if You Both work Very Very Hard to get past this.  That's what a Good Marriage is after all.  It is never the union of two Perfect People who Celebrate that Perfection for the rest of their lives.  It's the union of two Imperfect People, who have Suffered in one way or another (as we all do), and who if They are very Lucky and Work very Hard at it, can sometimes Heal Each Other.

[lovemykids465]

I am so sorry you are having a bad day. I can relate. It really is not fair that this happened, but it did. You can not change the past but you can change your future. It is so hard not to look back not to question. You can not help it but you do not have to stay there. You are such a strong woman I envy you. You have to rely on that strength to get you through. I wanted to know WHY too and Joe could not answer. They are men! That is the answer. Lame as it may sound. I do not mean that in a mean way toward men but come on when it comes to faithfulness, yes women fall but for some reason they consider others feelings and the effect it will have on them alot sooner then most men do.

When I ask Joe Why he said IDK she just new what to say and do, I played right into her hand. There does not have to be problems at home for this to happen. We were just busy and not as in sync as we should have been. As Joe said the back door was left open so to speak. Our Gaurd was down. We got lazy in our own relationship.

My daughter Kate was taken back to the hospital yesterday and as they were working on her and she was crying I was asking Why God, why her, Why does she have to be sick, she did nothing wrong to deserve a life of needles and hospital stays, pain and suffering. You know what there is no answer why. So how come I can accept that but I can not accept not having an answer from Joe? Some time we just do not know why.

I realized when I start to feel hurt, angry and bitter again I call Joe and say oh no, I am slipping, I want you to understand, don't be angry, just help me. And he does. We go out, or we rent a movie, or we read together. I listen to music or call a friend, I try to busy myself till I feel better.

I mentioned to him how you wrote the other woman. I said maybe that is what I need to do, he said well you did and it was not very nice ( I also know some guys at the gym who know her and when one of them asked me to go out I said you know I am married, he said so ( mad me so mad that this just slipped out) then I said do you know Scarlett from your home town, he said yes, I said here is her number, she is into that kinda thing. Well 2 days later my husband calls me and says Did you give her number to one of your friends I said yep! He said she was so mad b/c he said Hi this is James, Bridget's friend, she said you are into married men, wanna go out. She was furious!!!!

Anyway, I decided against contacting her again. Do not want to open a can of worms. Joe has to work with her everyday. I do not want her to think that they can even be friends.

[mami1323]

Brice her lashing out will get better in time.  She will learn how to control her thoughts and to control her actions.  Right now the anger is all she has giving her strength.  Over time she will let her guard down a little more but it will take a lot of work.  Hang strong.

[mami1323]

Now I feel like you are writing my words.  I was also very trusting and gave him a lot of freedom and when I did, it bit me in my a$$.  We are having this issue now actually and working hard through it.  Neither one of us is living a normal life.  He wants to go out with friends, he wants to go do things alone that men do and yet he knows he can't because he thinks I won't believe that he's really doing what he says he is.  Same for me, I don't do what I want for fear that I leave his side, he will be doing something he's not supposed to do.  What kind of life is that?  Neither one of us is very happy like this and it will inevitably cause even more bitterness and resentment.  So we are gradually letting go.  I will have to learn to be ok with him having more freedom and I will have to learn to be ok with giving myself more freedom.  As hard as it is trusting, it has to start somewhere.  And Tinkerbell is right, you can't control what he does.  He knows what will happen if he does it again, so the ball is in his court to do the right thing.  

As far as looks, well it doesn't matter.  My fiance had an affair with a much less attractive woman than me.  Not trying to sound conceited but looking at her pictures I wonder what in god's name was he thinking.  But it's not always about what one looks like.  Perhaps she was nice to him, she catered to him.  She made him feel special.  You see I was busy taking care of our son.  I was neglecting him, not that it was an excuse but I can see how she was able to do these things.  Brice has been with you for years, and it's not about what you look like.  Looks fade.  You are the mother of his children, his bestfriend, his partner.  Reading what he's wrote makes me know that he would be lost without you.  You will be different, but that's ok.  You may wind up a better woman from all of this.  If Brice doesn't have the patience and deligence to deal with the consequences of his actions, well then you know that he wasn't worth giving a second chance to.  At least you know you tried and will have no regrets.  This bitterness will fade over time.  You will start to have less and less bad days and you will start to enjoy your time with your husband again.  The first few months of recovery I was only faking the happiness.  I would pretend to be enjoying my time with my fiance but in reality I was miserable.  Now, we laugh and enjoy ourselves as if nothing happened.  Of course there are still hurdles and hiccups we have to get through but trust me when I say, I really like who I've become after all of this.  I am a lot stronger than I used to be.  I am more independent and much more aware of what I am worth.  

As for that other woman, DO NOT feel bad for her.  Do not feel like you ruined his back up plan.  He is YOUR husband and there is no need to have a back up plan.  If it doesn't work out with you and Brice, he just like you will have to start fresh.  Brice came up with his feelings about her without you having to tell him.  He already knew what he would be getting.  

[brice1967]

Ladies, youre information to Dee Dee regarding our affair is right on.  It was all me, I did this and there is no blame on her.  She keeps trying to find out what she did to make it happen.  Our therapists have told her that she didnt do anything wrong, but she is having a hard time accepting any bit of information.

I have told her that this is all on my.  I own it, I take responsibility.  I love this woman with all of my heart and am willing to do everything within my power to win her back.  I think she would even tall you that I am learning new skills and behaviors that I never thought I would obtain.  She just cannot accept the fact that there probably isnt anything she could have done to prevent this.  I have numerous psych issues that I am now seeking medical attention for that I am sure play a significant part in whatw wrong with ME....not her.

She is a beautiful, strong, smart, funny woman and I have jeopardized all of that.  I am going to do whatever it takes, but sometimes she isnt willing to accept my help and she keeps attacking.  When I do not respond, she gets mad and the arguement elevates.  I dont mind talking about the situation.  But we talk, and then she attacks.  I get it, its part of the PTSD.  I am doing the best I can, I am trying to break down the walls I built for protection all those many years ago to be able to help her help herself.

She has a poor self image...even before this.  She too has numerous things she's never dealt with, so that on top of this and she feels as if she is losing control.  Therapy is helping, but we need more.  The support we are both finding here is incredible.

I want to thank all of you who have offered support.  It does mean alot to me and I know Dee Dee feels the same way.  mami and TTinkk, you guys were right on!  Especially TTink and her explanation of why.....its a bulls eye.  Dee Dee is having a hard time accepting that as an answer.  Theres more to it than that.  I think the reason is deep set in my sub conscience, and that being the case will come out in therapy.

Again ladies, thank you so much.

[GroovyDeeDee]

O Mami, those could have been my words, my statements.  EVERYONE we know has envied our relationship.  It's not so much that I don't know who he is now, I don't know who I am, and if he will love me when we figure it out - if I will like me once we figure it out.  A big part of what people envied about us was the freedom I would give him, to go hunting, fishing, to a Lynard Skynard concert with buddies at will.  (He's missing one this weekend, in fact working doubles so his co-worker could go)  I used to work extra hours to help pay for these little excursions, and I took my own a couple times, too.  But the last time I sent him on a little trip, he had her fly in to the halfway point so they could go together.  And they had a plan in place to get together while I was at my HS reunion last month.  Needless to say, I didn't go, because I found out about them.  

I just want to be strong and confident and trusting again. It was hard for me to ever feel that way, because I am not a pretty woman, and Brice is so damn handsome.  I don't know what he ever saw in me, except our personalities really clicked from the beginning.  He always said looks didn't matter to him.  

I'm so afraid the bitterness in my heart will turn permanent.  And then No one could love me.  Not even me. Not even my kids.  

He told me he would never do this, 'cuz his Dad did it to his Mom and it made her bitter, and that made his and his sister's lives harder as kids.  Well, now he's done it, and he's upset, 'cuz I'm not happy.  I have never been a bitter person.  I don't want that.  

But I have not been a good wife, a good Mom or a particularly good employee since I found those damn phone records back on April 20.  Two months of prying the truth from him, Two more of dealing wit the truth.  

I haven't been able to clean my house or sew, or sit down and play a game with my kids.  I am a wreck.  And I feel today, like I'm back at square one.  

Except I really am not mad at her anymore.  She means nothing to me.

I honestly feel guilty, because I turned him against her.  If this doesn't work out he doesn't have his back-up plan anymore, and I feel bad about that.  Can you imagine?
Can you say 'door-mat?'  

I'm going for a haircut.  Maybe that will make me feel better.  

Thanks so much Mami for your help.  I know it will get better in time, but I feel he's losing patience.  

[TTinKKerBBell]

My Heart is Heavy for You.
You did nothing wrong!!  I can't stress this enough!!

His infidelity was HIS shortcoming - it was NOT because You were doing "something"  wrong.  We truly cannot take responsibility for someone's else choice/actions - only he is in control of that.  If You somehow did not meet his expectations/want/desires (whatever he might want to call it)  it was STILL his responsibility to address that with You and perhaps seek therapy and counseling at that time - it was STILL his responsibility not to have an affair.  He needs to tell You that.  He needs to tell You that you did nothing to deserve this!!  That it was HIM that was wrong in every sense of the word.  That he thought he could have a little sex on the side and You would never find out and no one would get hurt.  I think that's the key here - they don't really MEAN to hurt us - they just think we'll never know.  It truly is a SELFISH, SELFISH thing to do!!  There's also nothing You can do to prevent this from ever happening again - THAT TOO IS ON HIM!! - HE'S THE ONE WHO HAS TO NEVER LET IT HAPPEN AGAIN!! You say he's a good man - and I'm sure he is - but You are a Good Woman too and if You're not the same Person You were before it is his deed that created what You're trying to deal with today.  This has Forever changed You and it's his responsibility to take credit for that too.  Sure, it might be "hard" for him to "deal" with Your Insecurity, Hurt, Bitterness, etc., etc. but that's his price to pay for the price YOU'RE having to pay for what he did.  If You're Willing to endure this Humongous Heartache because you want to keep this Marriage then he has to be willing to do WHATEVER it takes to see You through Your suffering.  This is Your new reality.  It is not going to go away.  I  hope He's as Strong as You are in Your Conviction to make this work - it's SUPPOSED to be hard and painful for him as well.  It's his consequence to his choice.  PLEASE DON'T FEEL RESPONSIBLE FOR CHOICES HE MAKES!!
I commend You for trying so hard
My prayers are with You
Regards, Tinkerbell

[mami1323]

Those damn ups and downs.  They come out of nowhere right?  It's like one day you're doing great, you're happy and glad to be with them and the next, you want to just do a Lorena Bobbitt on them.  Again, I give you a lot of props just for sending her that letter.  I'm still haunted by my fiance's wh ore.  I still have anger and bitterness.  And not just towards her but to him.  It's been 2 years and we still have such horrible fights because I carry that bitterness around with me and it comes flooding out when I'm upset.  This isn't your fault, you didn't do anything at all to deserve what he did.  The issue isn't about us, it's about them as men.  He has the issues, not you Dee Dee.  No one is perfect, and people always think that the grass is greener because it is some false expectation of what life should be about.  They don't realize until it's clear that life would've been no better with her than it is with you.  It's just the thrill of something new.  Remember, these women want them, so they will say and do whatever it takes to "win" them over.  It isn't real.  What bothered me the most when my fiance cheated was that I no longer had that "perfect" relationship.  I always thought him and I were great together.  Everyone who knew us, wanted what we had.  His brother's and sister envied our relationship.  His brother's wanted a woman who did what I did for him and his sister wanted our long lasting love with someone who she was with.  So when he cheated I felt like it shattered what we were about.  I could never say the man I loved never cheated on me.  Our "perfect" relationship was false, a fake.  That really hurt.  He has security with me, he trusts me 100% and he took that away from me.  I can say he is the last man I have been with but I can't say the same for him.  But he does worry day in and day out that maybe one day I will seek revenge.  That maybe I will do what he did to me because he was such a ****.  So he's not as secure as he used to be.  But that's his own doing, I never made him feel that way.  Are you both still in counseling?  It does take a really long time to get past all of this.  Cheating is a serious betrayal, it makes us question everything.  We wonder who we are really with.  I still wonder if my fiance tells me the truth.  I was just telling our therapist this on Tuesday.  That he tells me something and I always wonder how real it is because he has lied so many times and told some huge lies and was so convincing that I have a really hard time believing in him.  I am not the woman I used to be.  I am not so trusting, I am less naive, I am much stronger though.  I am also less dependent on him.  I do what I want, when I want without regards for him.  If I want to go out with my friends I do it, if I want to go to the gym I leave him with our son and go.  I spent a lot of our relationship revolving myself around him, only to be hurt in the end.  So what I do now is put my son first, me second and him next.  I nurture our relationship, don't get me wrong.  I make it known to him that I love him with all my heart, I am a supporter and his best friend but I will not ever put him higher than me again.  Once I started taking care of myself, I was a better woman to him.  We can't lose ourselves in our men.  The more confidence I built up about myself, the less worried I became about him.  If he does it again or hurts me that way again, I know I will be ok by myself.  It will hurt but I will know that I don't need him.  I want him, but I don't need him.  Hope this helps a bit.  I know all too well what you are feeling.  Believe me it does get better.