Infidelity User Group
Hello is everyone Ok
About This Group:

For those who have been a victim of an affair and are trying to get their life back on track. This group can discuss the feelings and emotions behind it and also support those who are trying to recovery from it.

Founded by mami1323 on October 7, 2009
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Hello is everyone Ok

Looks like everyone has gone back into hibernation.If you are doing well that is great ! if not talk about it.
I am having trouble sleeping cannot go for more than two hours without waking up.This has been going on for about 4years why are we creatures of habit,any ideas on how to break this one.???

Always wondered why we retain the bad habits but never the good.
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34 Comments
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I've been fighting allergies or a cold.  But I say try some tylenol pm 2 sleep.  I'm doing good other than my allergies or cold or mixture of both...lol.  My son is sick as well.  We are a house full of illnesses.  Emotionally I'm good. Physically ehhh!!
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Things are going pretty well at our ranch! We've reached a spot where we can talk openly about the subject without it going into a brawl.  Dee Dee has slowed down on the detail questions about the affair.  The fact of that is, they only make her mad... knowing the details doesnt help.... and we cant move on while dwelling in the past.  This is stuff that our therapists said would come.

The fact is, it still isnt easy.  I am still committed to my wife and making this work.  We work on it together!

Seeanna, I'm not too for sure about the sleep thing.  Going from winter to spring time, I end up quite the insomniac.  Its been that way for years.  I'll gt an hour or 2...wake up for an hour or 2...then fall back to sleep for a nap right before the damn alarm clock goes off!!!  Over the counter sleep aides make me feel hung over in the morning.  I even tried a melatonin supplement from a health food store that a friend swore by.  It doesnt do a thing for me, but helps him immensely.

Mami, sorry to hear about the allergies.  I am normally dealing with hay fever right about now.  Hmmm, maybe I am not dealing with it because of my physical health being improved from the last few years???  I dont know.  Glad to hear that emotionally your wound up tight.  Nice to have, isnt it?
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Yes, I would much rather deal with being sick & allergies than having my emotions all over the place.  
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I am not doing to well. I am in the same boat as Mami, these allergies are kicking my butt. But I too would rather deal with that then to deal with the emotions I am feeling, I realize it is me, nothing Joe can do I guess will change that because he is really trying, I am just so mad, Actually I feel like I am loosing my mind, On one hand I can not imagine my life without him and if he left I don't know what I would do but on the other hand I think I need to get away for a bit, To get my thoughts together but I really do not have that opportunity with my kids and work and all, and I feel if I was gone I would be worried about him and the kids the whole time. I feel like I am in a prison of my own emotions, I want to love him, I want to trust him again, I want to be like ok, so we had a little set back but we can work through this but I just can not believe he would be so insensitive. I do not bring it up to him, I learned the first time It does not accomplish much, But I know he can sense when we are together that I am holding back and I really do not want to, I want to be free from all this, Why can't I just move on, I look for every reason to be mad at him to justify my feelings, to blame him for how I feel, We still have 2 weeks before we see the counselor, way to long for me. UGH I HATE THIS SOMEONE PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!  I feel so helpless and needy and that is not me, I want the old me back,
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you will get back to the old you one day,it just takes time and dont ever be rushed into dealing with your feelings and emotions,time will tell if you can trust and put those barriers down again.I know he is being understanding but he was the one who done this to your marriage so let him be the strong one to fix it,but believe me you will be your old self soon i am.
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The thing is I found out a year ago in August that he carried on a 3 month emotional affair with a co worker and it almost destroyed us, But we made it through, things were great even better then before, it was not easy but I forgave him and we decided to move on and then 3 weeks ago I found out that he befriended one of his female clients, yes it was just friends and yes she was giving him advice on our relationship but he hid it from me and she from her fiance, b/c they knew neither one of us would like it. But the phone calls and text were becoming more frequent with my husband doing the contacting, At first he denied any emotional attachment but now is saying he does not know why he gets caught up in getting attention from other women. It was never a problem until the past two years.  To him it is no big deal, I mean I big deal because he hurt me, but says there was not connection there like the last time, my feeling is there was no connection but what if I did not find out, could there have been, I guess once we get going to therapy together I will know. I am just sick of feeling like this,
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No hibernation - just away for the WeekEnd

Sometimes not sleeping or staying asleep can be a signal of depression - even when We don't realize We are depressed.  Trauma can cause Chemical Imbalances in the brain that can interfere with sleep & can often be helped with something mild - have You been checked for that?  You've had some Major Challenges that could interfere with sleep.
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Here I go again not following form.....

Well Deserved Anger Can Be Healthy AND Liberating!!

Why is being Angry viewed as  "not moving on"  ??!!

We're SUPPOSED to get mad when someone does something to upset Us.

Especially if they know full well that it IS going to upset us !! and they do it anyway  !!
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Major challenge Hmmmm what about 11yrs of them.I refuse to let it beat me but i know i am not right mentally what really bugs me is I cannot stop it.
                                                                       Maybe when this farm is sold i will be able to move on ....until then the ghosts of my beloved  gentle old broodmares will keep whinnying to me from the paddocks,they are all alive and well just not with me anymore.

  
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We have to move on what is the point of not doing that.Why do our minds control US when WE are supposed to control our minds.

Even  300mg of effexor a day cannot stop that.Am I going to have to put up with this insidious thing in my brain through no fault of my own ????.

My ex had an affair yrs ago and I moved on from that I was so upset that he told me hardly anything about it except that she was not as attractive or anyway good as me.
It killed me at the time but at least I had nothing to latch onto no thoughts of him with her.

I now am glad he did that as I moved on with no after thoughts.Just his mid life crisis.
But guess what! he never ever even said he was sorry I stayed because I had nowhere to go.

Sorry guys I am at my lowest ebb now ! in a couple of hours i will be bright eyed and bushy tailed.

Being on ones own with my 3 dogs (thank god for them) makes me think too much.
That will stop as on Saturday my partner Ron of 6 months will move in with me he has taken the rest of his long service leave ,and then will get a job in Benalla with me.

Maths teachers are as scarce as hens teeth so no worries getting a job here.He was here before for 9 weeks and it was great so he will be a great help.

Why has not someone invented something that removes those awful memories from our brains I am aware that I MUST move on as i could lose Ron .....events from the past can shape our future through no fault of our own.

I will Not let this affect my future if I do whats the Bloody point as there is no one left to be angry at except myself ..

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I'm doing OK.  This thread has prompted me to do a long-overdue update on my journal, so if you are really interested in the slow progress of the termination of my marriage, it's all there.

The shorter story is that I've found a house to move out to, and I'll be getting the keys in about 3 weeks.  Probably another couple of weeks before I move in, as there's serious work needs doing.  I'm looking forward to it, the house needs a lot of work and it should be a fun project doing it up.

We told the kids a few weeks ago, and they took it remarkably well.  My worst fears about their lives being totally screwed up by this look like being way over-pessimistic - although I haven't moved out yet so they haven't really experienced the reality of the break-up.

I'm doing OK, and the bouts of anger, upset, frustration are becoming rarer, shorter, and less intense.  I've got positive stuff to look forwards to.  This is going to work out alright.
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Hi Sammy looks like you are doing it really tough.The sooner you move out the better, what does your wife do in her spare time pull wings off butterflies.

If she gets this guy to move in with her the honeymoon might start to come to an end.
but if it does Dont be waiting around as you have set the standerd ! she can have affairs and You will be waiting.

Get out there and find a lady that will appreciate you there are so many good online dating sites that are free and it will give you a chance to get your confidence back.
In fact you might even find a lady handy with the hammer lol.

I would like to see your wifes face when you do get someone as she will have lost her safety net.

This is what I hate ......some partners have no guilt what so ever.She saw the hell you were going through  and did not give a damn.

You are a very lucky guy to be rid of her....keep that thought and move on.And remember life begins at 40.                                          



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Thanks guys,
Much better today and Tinkkerbell, you are right, I have every right to be mad. I finally calmly spoke to my husband last night and he said to me the same thing. You have every right to be mad. He said he was stupid and will do what ever it takes. I told him that I love him but I do not have that In love feeling anymore, the feeling of joy when he walks in the door,now it is more dread b/c I am afraid of fighting. He said he understands and it will return. He is being very supportive this time.
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Hi, thanks for your comments.

Really, my ex isn't all that bad!  If she was, I wouldn't have spent three years trying to save our relationship.  I guess she comes out bad because all I ever talk about here is the infidelity and the marriage breakdown, plus I mostly only post when I'm particularly upset or troubled, so all you lot ever hear is the bad stuff.

To be honest, I have trouble reconciling some of the things she's done over the last 3 years or so, they don't really fit with the person I otherwise know her to be.  I guess she has her reasons.  She's no devil.

It would be easy to paint her out to be so evil, but really it wouldn't help my mental balance to be focussed on hating her, it would make it SO much harder to deal with her as I will have to do for the next 15 years or so as our children grow up, and it just doesn't fit with the reality.
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Ok I understand and I really respect you for saying that.Buy please hon try to move on with your life ....this house is a wonderful challenge for you and you will have a lot of fun and frustration doing it up.

The main thing is you let her go.... it will be hard as you are still in love with her and that little bit of anger helps with the transformation thats all.

You have learnt a lot which will hold you in good stead for your next relationship,and there Will be a next time just keep your mind open.

Its all well and good that you stay friends because of the children ! but there is that fine line and you cannot be too close as there is another man in her life now and she has chosen him.

Accept that and move on to the next phase of your life.... if you can do that you will be so much more content and filled with anticipation for the future.
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My therapist and our couples therapist has said something that might be of some help to some of you. "We cannot control the past....we cannot control the future....but we can have control over what happens now".  I thought we could control the future, but she told me that there is too many outsides influences to really be able to control the future....  I guess I get that.

I hope everyones thoughts are up!
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Brice, you are so right. I would always say I could not control the past but I definitely tried to control the future, I learn now you can not control anyone but yourself, not your spouse, your children or anyone else. I also know as much as I want to fix Joe, I am not capable of it. I wish I were seeing I feel he is the source of our issue and he tends to agree but I do have control issues. I never realized it. I am not an aggressive controller but passive. I have had my up and down days with this. I realize now that is what led me to my eating disorder for so many years.  I have decided to take one action a day or one thought a day and put that into practice in our relationship. Yesterday was no negative words, harder then I imagined. Seeing Joe did something that really upset me ( not about our relationship but life in general) I just bit my tongue and walked away. I seriously felt much better about myself and within 1/2 hour I was over it.  Today beside no negative words I had to add an act of kindness. This is a bit harder seeing I am almost always going above and beyond by having his coffee made, lunch, dinner etc, so I am still thinking about what I can do there, Maybe take his car down and vacuum it out. This is more for me, you can not stay mad at someone when you are ministering to their needs I figure.
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OMGolly !!  You are TOO Good !!

Regards,
TTinKK

P.S.
Is he putting as much into this as You are?
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All right!!  Dee Dee learned something yesterday that makes a lot of sense.  It'd probably be better coming from her, but I get how it works.  Anyhow, these bad thoughts that come in waves.....what you do is picture them in your mind as something small, that you can fit in the palm of your hand or underfoot.  When you have them that size....SQUASH 'EM!

It's all about controlling your thoughts and not letting your thoughts control you.  And its tuff, no doubt!!!!  Keeping things in perspective.....the past has happened.  How you deal with it is a determining factor of the rest of your life.  What I was told today by my therapist is....you did this to Dee Dee.  She has every right to be mad and or angry.  You betrayed everything.....she is entitled to be mad.  What she needs to work on is not being nasty and mean.  Although there is a part of you (me) that expects this, it is actually counter productive when trying to repair or save a marriage.  Marriages are broken all of the time by infidelity, and marriages are broken all the time by spouses being mean, controlling, or selfish.  By being mean ans nasty, one can chase the other away.  She went on to mention that it is a primal protective instinct to lash out.....verbally or physically.  But there has to be a time when that stops if the marriage is going to heal.  

With that being said, Dee Dee is a saint for accepting me back into her life. I know I am a lucky man!  A choice has been made to attempt to save our marriage, and both of us want that more than anything.  We are both working our tails off, and it will pay off in the end.
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There is a bit more to the middle paragraph from my above posting.  The addition is..... the idea of this affair is never going to go away.  It changed everyone involved and it changed the dynamics of the relationship.  What can happen is, it can be dealt with in a fashion that allows normal daily function.  It can be dealt with in a fashion that does allow happiness, a feeling of being content, a feeling of being satisfied within a healthy relationship.  But it does make one more vigilant...more self supporting...less vulnerable, and none of that is a bad thing!  

To continue all of the self depreciating is also affecting ones self worth.  The self worth can come back and can be rebuilt through affirmation.  By stopping the self depreciation, and self destruction....one can replace those thoughts with healthier ones.  This is 100% doable.  With affirmation, acts of kindness running both ways, kind words the self worth becomes apparent.  Thats when healthy healing happens.  Simply addressing something, then compartmentalizing it is counter productive.  Ask to talk about the affair.  Pick a time.  Pick a spot.  Make ground rules.  Follow all of the rules, especially the rules that you made.  When one wants to back out of the conversation, finish your point....then back out and give it a rest.  Everyone retreats to their safe spot.

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Thanks for the advice Brice, sounds like something I need to do. I did this last year but it is funny how we tend to get all caught up and can not see the grass through the trees. and  Tinkkerbell, yes, he is being good to me. He has been for the last 20 months that is why this last little slip up confused me so much.  But I more then just helping out around the house or with the kids, he is giving me the space I need and to me that is very important.
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Brice it sounds like you both got yourselves a very good therapist.  I was doing the very same thing as Dee Dee and our therapist had said the same thing.  It's very easy to not like someone who is being nasty to you and that's what I was trying to do, push Richie away so that he wouldn't get too close.  Because if he gets too close than I could inevitably be hurt again.  So in order to avoid that I keep him at a distance.  It was my protective guard, my wall.  But it was exactly what you said, counter productive.  At some point the guard comes down little by little as long as you continue to do what you need to do to make Dee Dee feel comfortable again.  

Love, girl, you got it.  You are doing what you need to do for you now.  I'm telling you, you will change but be a better you.  Because we tend to lose ourselves in our relationships.  Once we focus a bit on ourselves we can be better to them.  I'm home today so if you want to call me, let me know.  I'm taking Jay to the park in a few but I should be back around 1 pm.
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Hey girl!  I just had a thought.  Have you read the book, "The Five Love Languages"?  In no way do I want to say here that anything is your fault, but maybe you are not speaking Joe's "Love Language" and he's getting that from these female "friends."  Brice and I both found the book to be a quick, easy read - and maybe if you guys read it, you'd be able to figure out what's behind Joe's need for whatever it is he's getting by talking to other women.  Just a thought.  

I'm doing ok.  Still struggling.  I still can't read posts about brand new affairs, too fresh and I'm still feeling a little "raw" under my skin.  

Brice is being really amazing, and part of me thinks that's why I'm not fully letting go - I'm enjoying his support too much ;)  But at some point I will have to quit being weepy/angry.  I had to leave work early one day this week, 'cuz I just couldn't pull it together.

You have all been so much help to me - I aspire to someday be able to read those new posts and give some wise and insightful advice of my own!  Wish me luck!  
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Have it, read it, and recommended it!  But you are right. His is words of encouragement  I was encouraging I thought but apparently he needs much more. But we are well. Kate was rushed to hospital by ambulance from school today her sugar was 47. She was admitted, I am with her, Joe took off early and came to visit with us and now is home with boys. We are scared to death but know she is going to be ok. Has test for pancreas again tomorrow. THis is usually when things fall apart for us, so I am very nervous. So want to check cell record to see if he is running for comfort but will not do it.
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Do you know what just you saying he might be going to his mobile for comfort says a lot he needs to be treated like you treat your children,fussed over cuddled and cared for,his family background will tell the tale which you already know.

I don't so either he is the youngest,an only child,one of a big family, or in the middle of three.
        That said ! its because he had a lot of attention or never enough either way he wants what he never had OR always had  if that makes sense.

He is sensitive  a worrier and needs to told  that  he is important to all of you.He feels like an outsider looking in.Its What about ME.He does not want these woman sexually he wants attention when he gets the poor me's and of course they are nurturers they give him what they want.

He does not know how to take charge be strong make you feel safe He wants that he cant help it it stems back to what he is.And somehow he has to be taught how to grow up and take responsibility for his little family he must step up to the mark for you all.

You need to turn it around as every time there is a Crisis like now he might creep away to get in his mind that, Confidence that he needs to be strong and supportive as he cant cope sometimes.It will be interesting to see if he is trying to breakaway and do it by himself .


Can you become everything he wants ?? you can turn it around now that you are aware
you have to change your whole outlook for a while ! he CANT help it he loves YOU he craves attention and affection that he always had OR never got.
JMO..
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Sorry no comma's pressed too soon.  where it starts with  ....   He is sensitive should be ....they give him what HE wants....not what they want.I know its all over the place but I write as I think.

Tells you a lot about me lol.

Its not an affair as such its the Affirmation of who he is and what HE needs.
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you are absolutely right. I am hoping that counseling will help him with this. He had a very tuff upbringing. He was given up at birth and taken in by a couple in their 50's. He was her ( adoptive mom) life, The rest of her children were grown and married living lives of there own but when he was 11 his dad died and 13 his mom. He moved in with her eldest daughter who had already raised her own children and was now raising her grand baby and really did not want Joe there. He went through hell there. So I do see what you are saying I just need to learn to deal with it and try to figure out how to meet that need in him ( I thought I was )
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You are too correct when you mentioned the protective guard thing.  It is normal to feel and behave that way.  Dee Dee is still doing it, but its getting so much better.  We actually talked last night for some time.  It is all about the details, which she has been asked to not talk about.  I understand the "want" to know all of those things, but that enhances that protective guard thing.  It also goes to conjure up images in her mind which in return normally start an arguement.  Dee Dee is getting it.  Little by little, things are coming around.  And really, Ive got nothing but time.  She realizes now that she has to start to curb those attacks that are driving a wedge between us, and that too is improving.  The deal with that is, I am starting to put up the protective guard because I dont know when these conversations are going to develop into a full blow out.  That isnt a big help either, but both of our therapists agreed kind of that the ball is in her court now.  If the marraige is going to heal, she has to move beyond the details and concentrate on whats happening in the now.  The past cant be changed, the future is uncontrolable, but the now is!  Dee Dee gets that, and is really working towards that, but just has relapses.  Her moods recently have been bouncing between anger and sadness.  It's been a tough go recently, but we are getting along and are havivng normal conversations in no regards to the affair.
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Oh dear..... poor darling.  I understand all now .....but it all falls on your shoulders and that is not fair.
What to do  ! well I  would tell him if he needs comfort (I think I am preaching to the converted here) please do not call any other woman.... come to me,....no one understands you as I do... no one loves you as I ....and no one makes love as I do(you better be good lol).
I sincerely hope you realise how much you are loved and treasured by all of us.But its a two way street (listen to me... gawd I got some cheek) always remember that.
Bet you have already said something like that (if so just ignore)

He must realise that what he has done has put life as he knows it in jeopardy,he could lose the love and respect that he gets from his family for ever.Then what would happen ?
He could lose himself and every thing dear to him I do so hope he realises that.
You are his Lover, his mother, his best friend and confidant.
The sooner he realises that the better.Sorry about the mother but its just another hat to wear when needed..

Do you know what ! I should have quit while I was ahead ....sorry for rabbiting on so much.
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I know all too well how Dee Dee feels.  It's so hard just to feel comfortable again.  I remember in the beginning we would seem to be ok, enjoying our time together, but for me it was fake.  I was pretending to be ok.  I was acting.  I would spend time with him and we would laugh but my thoughts were on everything else.  I wondered if he laughed with her, I wondered if he was thinking about her even when he was spending time with me, I wondered if he was full of sh!t when he would talk to me, I would think about all the lies he told.  So here I was behaving like I was ok and he was thinking I was and I was having some severe internal struggles.  It's really a tough place to be in.  You know you love this person, you've spent years with them, have kids with them and know you want to be with them, but then you feel hurt, betrayed, your trust is broken and you question whether you can continue in this relationship.  Whether this person that you love is being honest with you or if they will do it again to you.  You feel stupid for being there with them, you want to in your heart but you are letting your pride fly right out the window.  It's such self deprication, it's disgusting really the position we were put in.  Dee Dee wants to be ok, she wants to love you and see you the way she used to but it is all different for her now.  She has to adjust to what this relationship has become and of who you've become to her now.  I remember thinking that the security I once had was gone.  I used to feel so safe and so secure with my fiance.  He was my protector, the person who would not allow me to get hurt.  He changed the minute I found out about the affair, he now became the total opposite of all those things.  He was my "attacker" if you will.  It's so hard to snap out of it.  It does get better, I can truly say I'm much better now.  I still have moments of doubt but I have learned how to cope.  I also am a much stronger and independent woman now.  I don't rely on him to make me happy.  It's so hard to explain, it really is.  I hope I summed it up a bit.
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Seeana, you are completely right. He see's that now ( he said and I hope it is true). Brice and Mami, you are both so right. I had that wall up for about 11 months and it was very hard to let go, you want to be it is a self preservation thing. Then I let it down and it went right back up, In turn Joe like Brice put one up too, in the beginning to protect himself from all the attacks I levied on him, this made me mad at first because I felt he deserved everything I was giving him and he did but two wrongs don't make a right, All it was doing was causing both of us to walk on egg shells all the time,
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By the way, we just got home from the hospital. Kate's pancreas checked out fine, the problem was due to medication.
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I am so glad everything is ok .There is nothing worse when something happens to your children.
             Couples who can not get over this head for the divorce court.Its only the ones who seek help and wake up to the situation that have a good chance.

Trust is the killer trust and then resentment in fact the partner who cheated  is sometimes driven away into another relationship as he/she figures they may as well  !as they are still getting punished for it.

When does the trust issue resolve itself ???how long is a piece of string..
Over 20 yrs ago when my ex had an affair I was shattered all the signs were there new aftershave, new clothes everything.

My world stopped I had no family, except my 20yro daughter and she stayed right in the middle she had to .... she was the stable Jockey and the stable was flying.
I know why it happened .....it started when I was in hospital having a Hysterectomy
enough said.

He never said how very sorry he was, but he was a nicer person to be around.Never told me anything about it except she was no where as attractive as me.
In hindsight i am glad he didn't as I would have dwelt on that  for a long time but that's me.

We went on holiday together and  we fell in love again I forgave him.Never occurred to me that he would do it again...and he didnt until he had his stroke and went back to the UK he was a stranger no wonder he must have had that deadly brain tumour growing inside his head.But my sister in law if I had got my hands on her

But she paid the price of watching him die slowly Gee Im a mean ***** arnt I.

I guess for me time is running out.....  everyday we are mad and sad that is a day lost...
My new partner is gentle sweet and kind as I told you all... and we will be happy walking our dogs along the beach. His ex had an affair and left citing too quiet heaven for me though.

I hope there will be room as all the guys and gals off the dating sites want to do that.
So there might be standing room only.lol.
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I know and fully understand the position I put Dee Dee in, and all of you gals got lumped into the same spot.  I hate that it happened to anyone of you, but especially Dee Dee.  I really am trying to key in on her emotions, and they fluctuate.  

I do believe most of the happy times we are having now are genuine, but I do feel as if she is forcing herself to have a good time on occaision.  I can see her, kind of holding back or resisting against herself and the good time..... it's kind of like a tension or just an uneasy feeling may be a better description.

The flip side to that is, even yesterday she made this statement....and I totally get it but it is giving me hope that I am doing the right things.  She told me that perhaps by not fully forgiving....and by holding on to some of this.... it is preserving and ensuring all of the good things I am doing now.  She feels as if she fully forgives, quits paying notice to the fact of the affair daily....that I will go back to the same old me.  She is falling for the guy I am becoming.  (Im glad to become the guy I am trying to become.  Its a conscious effort to be more receptive, understanding, loving, giving more attention to recieve more attention)  She doesnt want all of the good stuff thats happening right now to stop.

I was assured by my therapist that this pace of me constantly being her "knight in shining armor" will not last forever, but the key is to never let it completely go away.  When things get closer to normal, it is going to be real important to "pull a rabbit out of my hat" and suprise her with a sneak get-away.  Flowers for no reason....

She said the comfort zone will be rebuilt, but the key is to not let anything get stagnant.  Always check in...see how she feels and express how I feel.  Address all concerns as they arrive.  Hold nothing back.  She also told me that if "you ever think...should I even mention this....you should!"  I have always put things away which in turn has helped create some of my anger issues.  My deal with anger is, it is often misdirected and unfortunately my wife and kids have recieved the blunt of my anger at times.  (Im not a total a$$-hole, but I wait until 50 things have made me a little upset and then have a blowout!) That *****... I am working on it.  My therapist told me that it is almost always the ones we love that we go after first.  She used a few clinical terms that I cant remember, but mentioned that what I do is gender-stereotypical.  She then explained that men and women are different, were wired differently, and we process things differently.  I am getting that, I mean, its obvious.

I've also been pretty passive-aggressive with all of the women in my life.  Ive lacked asertiveness at times...most times in fact.  But that too is on my list of stuff to work on.  

In closing, I have a hell of a lot of work to do, not only regarding my relationship but on my personal self.... Kind of feel like a soup-sandwich, ya know?  All of the good stuff is there, but it's a cotton picking mess!  I'm cleaning it up.

I appreciate all of you gals on this board.  I have learned alot and gained much valuable insight.  My therapist said something.... she asked me to limit my time on this thread, or to take into account that although most of these relationships have similarities, repairing them all can and do take different steps at different times...approach with caution.  She reminded me that we on this thread arent "professionals".  I get that too, but have learned nearly as much on here as I have larned through her.  I'll tread lightly, but enjoy the correspondance with people that are going through the same thing.  It makes recovery/repair more realistic and gives more hope.  I think Dee Dee feels the same way.

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