Dull Kidney Pain (Normal Test Results) driving me nuts :( Crying
Please read, contribute, comment or help me brothers and sisters. It's a little long but earn some good deed. It's long. God Bless you!
I am 23 year old male, 5'7, 170 lbs mostly muscle mass. I have been lifting weights and being healthy since I was 16; until last couple years, I started having problems after another.
At first, I was diagnosed with anxiety and panic attacks 2 years ago. My doctor prescribed me xanax. I started feeling better so after 15 days, I stopped taking xanax and i learned how to tell my body that it's just anxiety and nothing else and i took control over my anxiety. So every once in a while, I would have a panic attack and it would go away because I would tell myself that there is nothing wrong with me.
At that time, I also starting having dull pain in the back, near my kidney area. Most of the times it would be a dull pain but sometimes, there would be a very sharp, stabbing pain; however,please note that the sharp pain would last only 1 to 2 seconds.
That went away on it's own.
2 years later, I was having a very stressful year so a new problem started happening. About 4 months ago, I was yelling at my sister because she wasn't listening to my directions while teaching her how to drive. All the sudden, I had this mild pain deep inside my heart (not severe). That made me think that i had a mild heart attack so i started having crazy panick attacks and this time, I couldnt control those because it was my heart. Please note that the only anxiety symptoms I had in the past were palpitations, skipping of beat and tingling and never had any chest pain what so ever so it was new which made me think that there was something wrong with my heart. Since that day, there would be a dull pain in my heart area lasting from 10 seconds to 2 minute and would come every 30 minutes. Sometimes, very rarely, same pain would be on ride side of the chest which didn't convince but made me think that it could not be my heart.
So about three weeks ago, I went to the doctor to complain about my dull chest pain and my doctor said that it could be due to acid reflux since I am on a bodybuilders high carb diet. She put me through EKG which came normal. She prescribed me prevacid. Oh my god, that made my symptoms worse so i stopped taking them on my own and the symptoms went away or at-least reduced to the point where i wasn't going crazy.
During same time period, I started having same back/kidney pain that I was having couple years ago. Now please note, I don't want to go in to kidney disease so this is more important to me then chest pain and this is what i need help on.
So the nature of my pains are that I don't think they are muscle because it does not hurt upon touching it. There is a dull ache on mostly my lower back, sometimes towards the side, sometimes only one one side, sometimes on both sides. They happen randomly throughout the day. It's not a stabbing or a sharp pain, it's more like a dull to mild ache and most of the times it's deep inside my body around the kidney area.
I just can not tell if it is my actual kidneys or not. I heard kidney pains can be compared to child birth pain but like i said before, i do have those pains too but very rarely (once a month) and it lasts for 2 seconds.
I went to the doctor again I did urine and blood test and they were actual lab tests, not the strips one. My urine test came back totally normal which no blood, no protein and no nothing wrong with it. My creatinine serum came back 1.24 with (0.76 to 1.27) on the scale. Note that my creatinine has been around 1.24 for 2 years. I carry some decent amount of muscles therefore it's high and my doctor is not considered about it. My EGFR is 84.
So according to test results, I have no kidney infection and no kidney stones because according to my doctor, kidney stones will show some trace of blood in my detailed urine exam.
Also note that during the episode of my back/kidney ache, my chest pain was very little to almost gone. Although they came back a little bit but not to the point that i would go crazy.
I am going crazy about my kidney/back ache though as i don't know what's causing this because my lab results is normal, my doctor is not worried about it, she is not prescribing me any antibiotics because i don't have any infection. She told me to take ibuprofen. I take that 3 times a day (200 mg) and it helps a little bit.
Does anyone might have an idea of what causing these back ache or if they may be coming from kidneys? How do i deal about it? Do i just pray or hope that they would go away on it's own. I can not afford health insurance and more tests will cause more money to spend. I have been drinking lots of water, I tried many home remedies over and over again and passed 3 stones but the pain didn't go away so it means it could be something else other than kidneys? I use to be very healthy. please please please help!
The constant dull aching pain that you are suffering from does not appear to be kidney problem, because, such patients quite often tend to suffer from intermittent colicky (severe) pain often accompanied by nausea and / or vomiting. As the physician whom you have consulted had ruled out a kidney problem, this appears to be unlikely in your case. However, it is worth while doing a urine culture in order not to miss chronic infection of the urinary tract. Some of the chronic infections such as tubeculous kidney may require (IVU / IVP) intravenous pyelography / urography for diagnosis (as well as urine culture for tubercle bacilli.)
Other causes for pain could be peptic ulcer disease and GERD.
I'm new to kidney disease, so sorry I can't help you more. One thing I do know: Anyone with kidney disease should not be taking ibuprofen! No Motrin, no Advil. So if you suspect you have kidney disease, take Tylenol instead - OK? Here is a link to an article from the New York Times about the danger of ibuprofen regarding kidney disease: http://www.nytimes.com/1990/04/16/us/kidney-peril-found-in-the-pain-reliever-ibuprofen.html
Next, you said you were on a high-carb body-building diet: Are you sure it isn't really a high-protein body-building diet? Usually body builders consume a lot of protein which can be hard on your kidneys. Reduce the amount of protein you eat to reduce the workload on your kidneys. Drink plenty of water daily. Do not salt your food! Do not overdo potassium (bananas, spinach, V8 juice).
Your refusal to continue on Prevacid was a good choice! Such drugs have caused many health problems for patients! Simple things like avoiding spicy foods, elevating the head of your bed at night, and not eating close to bedtime are simple measures that can help you deal with reflux better and more safely than the Prevacid could.
Lastly, just because a doctor tells you you are alright and don't have kidney disease doesn't mean you don't have it. It's your life, you care more than any doctor does about you, and you know your symptoms - that something seems wrong. Keep pushing, researching for free on the Internet, until you get your answer. Meanwhile, take the preventive measures suggested above and monitor your kidney tests (BUN, creatinine, and most importantly GFR) every few months until they are stable. Despite what doctors say, the GFR is the most important sign of kidney failure according to the National Kidney Foundation. So much for doctors . . .
Good luck to you!!
Also, stinging nettle seed liquid and astragalus capsules have been helpful in supporting kidney health. Find a good herbalist or homeopathic practician who can prescribe the right doses for you. Such practitioners are usually much cheaper (and often more reliable and effective) than doctors.
One more thing: Your GFR of 84 (with no protein in the urine) is not in the range of kidney disease so that is a good sign! Once your GFR goes below 60 or if you start to have protein in your urine, that could indicate kidney disease. Still, with your continuing concerns and your aching kidneys, you could safely take the precautionary kidney-protective measures of not eating too much protein, not adding salt to food, monitoring your blood pressure, avoiding ibuprofen, continuing to periodically follow your GFR labs, and not overdoing high-potassium foods.
Im with the others and kidney disease sounds unlikely, However, I said unlikely!!!! I had the exact pains you describe for years, on and off, crampy then stabbing, had be stumped. My egfr at that time was also high 80s, sadly way down from that now. Remeber, that an egfr of 60-90 can indicate very early kidney disease (KD) and in stage one there are no symptoms so you would not likely ahve protein etc in urine, I did always have blood though in mine from very early, even when egfr was normal. So I agree it is unlikley but it disturbs me that the back pain you describe is identical to what I had and no cause could be found, yet now am in stage 3 KD, As i had severe depression, my pain was also put down to "in the head" i was in agony, there was no other way to describe it, I would suddenly scream out and couldnt stop myself. You say it doesnt hurt when press on the area though, what about when you cough? exactly where on the back, ie lower or closer to waist line at side/sides
At first, I was really convinced that there was something wrong with my heart. For the last two years, my anxiety symptoms were palpitations, skiping of heart beat and feeling like i was getting a heart attack although i had no chest pains. Funny thing is that even though i have more stress in life but i have not had any one of those anxiety symptpms that i use to have and now i have new problems. Does that mean that anxiety symptoms can take different form everytime?
Like I said , at first I use to think for quite some time that there was something wrong with my heart but then I started running on the treadmill and I could literaly go forever without getting tired so with that in mind, I figured that I can not have heart problems because i could run non stop without getting tired or exhausted. Slowly I really started beleiving that my chest pain were due to something other than my heart. Now I firmy beleive in it and that chest pain have significantly reduced.
Now I have this dull discomfort in my stomach and funny thing is that it's in different part of my stomach every damn time so there is no way for me to tell if it is from any organ.
My guess is either it is ulcer, or either it is IBS or IBD. With that in mind that the intestive could be imflammed, it could also trigger stomach pain as well as back pain.
The most frustrating part is that I hardly and very rarely have anyt severe pain. All my pains are soo dull that there is just a discomfort. I would love to get a severe *** pain for whole day and just be done with it than something that tortures me every ****in day. Tell me that there are worse problems in life. I can deal with this issue i just hope it isnt something serious.
There is no tender feeling, it doesn't hurt to touch, there does not appear to be any swelling and it doesnt hurt to cough (only time it ever hurted when i coughed was when i tried drinking olive oil as one of home remedies)
On the back, my pain will be like kinda deep inside, it will last for like 20 seconds and it will be gone.
as the pains seem to change places etc and there seem to be multiple different issues, it is extrmemely doubtful that the kidney forum is the best place to get the answers, ie this forum is more for those who are concerned or have kidney diseases and abnormalities. It would be rare I think, if the pain was coming from an organ, to keep being in very different areas. However the bowel does cover a very large area and pain can be low in the back, high in the abod etc, I am no doctor but it really does seem that there may be, as you do say, anxiety or stress issues. These can cause very disturbing pain and can actually effect your system ie function, eg constipation diarriah etc,,, never been able to spell that word!!! it seems you have had a lot of tests etc and anything serious or obvious ruled out. wish we had the answers but not sure that they will come from here. best of luck though and im sure we all really feel for you
I'm thinking since your pain moves around and is inconsistent it may be due to some other thing. Are you a heavy weight lifter? Pulled muscles can cause deep pains that come and go and once you injure a muscle it can take a long long time for it to heal especially if you are continuing with the same routine.
Another thing you might investigate since your pains are dull and all over the place is Fibromyalgia. I have FM and that's the way mine is. Pain radiating to other parts of the body. Sometimes in my side or "kidney area" sometimes behind the shoulder blade (i.e. heart pains) and sometimes I do get a stabbing pain that feels like it could be heart related but they tell me my heart is magnificent.
What do you take for the pain? NSAIDS such as ibuprophen, Celebrex, Aleve, Advil, etc are extremely hard on your organs. They can even cause heart attacks. If you take them you should stop.
As mentioned before it could be your bowels. IBS can cause crampy pain and if you get diverticulosis and an infection along with it, it can be painful. I think you need further evaluation.
If you are on a high protein diet it is very hard for your body to digest especially beef. You might try limiting yourself to chicken, turkey or fish and alot of cooked or steamed until soft veggies. If it is your bowels or intestines this should help.
Okay, for the past month and a half I have had severe pain in my right side. Extends down my back and to my lower abdominal area. I have had an ultrasound and a CT scan which confirmed kidney stones. I also have no blood in the urine, urine and blood come back good. However, I am still having pain! Doctors keep telling me that if the stones aren't stuck that I should not be having pain if they are not moving. Bull, I got a referal to a urologist.
I suggest get a CT scan, that will confirm if you have stones. Whether there is blood in the urine or not means nothing. Trust me.
If you have exhausted the known tests and they all come out clear, I would consider that this is something neurological rather than physiological. Sometimes the body sends out pain signals where there is no reason for pain. Usually it is a past trauma that for all intensive purposes is healed but still hurts. I get neuropathic pain where they did kidney surgery. Sometimes the body just sends out pain signals for the sake of it such as in the condition Fibromyalgia. You don't mention overwhelming fatigue so I would say FMS is unlikely. If you do experience fatigue it may be FMS. It is really rare in males though.
You may want to ask to try something like neurontin. It is a medication more meant for neuropathic pain. It may help and if it does than you will have a better idea of the cause. It is generic and an older medication so I don't think it will break the bank. And it is easier on the body than things like Aleve (naproxen), and Advil (ibuprophen). Another thing you can do is use a cream with Capscascian in it. Capscascian lowers substance P which causes pain over time. So you have to use it everyday for it to have an effect. Capscascian is a derivitive of hot peppers so be careful to wash your hands really really well after using it. I touched my lips once after I didn't wash my hands properly - boy did it burn. I use a preparation from A535, not the regular stuff that doesn't contain capscascian. It costs about $15 - $19.
I know how tough it is when your body is hurting and you don't have a cause. It is really tough to believe that you essentially have some wiring crossed in your brain and that is what is hurting you.
I would be tempted to go and try a different doctor. Giving the advice of taking ibuprofen when she also suspects an ulcer is just stupidity as ibuprofen can cause ulcers or make them worse.
To ease stomach upset licorish tea is nice. It is a sweet dessert tea. You can buy it in any grocery store. I like Yogi, Egyptian Licorish tea. It is a bit more expensive but worth it in my opinion. But any old licorish tea will do. I find it is also nice cold.
@Cindy: Yes I lift very heavy weights. I dead-lift over 300 lbs and Leg Press close to 900 Lbs. I can differentiate between muscle soreness and the pain that I get. They are totally different and i know they are not the same. Not sure if muscle pain can be deep? can it? Could it feel like it is coming from Organs.
Most of the time, mine is just a discomfort, a annoying one, like a buildup of pressure and it's frustrating.
I am not taking anything for pain. I am doing this natural remedy which has cured my chest pains mostly. Also, I have been training my mind not to worry about it and that one day i am going to die anyways so worrying too much is not going to do any good you know because life is short. So far this approach has been working good and i am enjoying my day. Also, I am glad to say that maybe temporarily but my symptoms have significantly reduced. I feel them but maybe once or twice a day and i don't worry about it so they go away fast.
Thanks for the advice, I think it could be neurological. I love Chai tea and i am an addict of it.
Thank you all for you'r support. This forum is great!
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