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Am I definitely going to pass lyme to baby?
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Am I definitely going to pass lyme to baby?

Hey I wondered if anyone can help!
I am very negative at the moment ! I'm 35 weeks pregnant .. Caught lyme in first trimester and only got diagnosed a month ago and have been on amoxicillin now since diagnosed and will be until the birth of baby.
I am aware that I fall into all 'unfavourable ' outcomes in regards to pregnancy outcome but I feel I need some kind of hope to hold on to ! I know what the odds are and the case studies etc.. And I have prepared myself for a congenital lyme baby but am I completely doomed? As in am I definitely going to have a really bad outcome like a still birth or neonatal death ... If baby has lyme I feel strong enough to cope and deal with this but I ant cope with loosing my baby..... Has anyone got any words of hope for me ?
All studies note bad outcome from first trimester infection which is when I caught it .... But I really need some ray of light or hope to hold onto I'm really struggling
Thank you
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Because Lyme is an infection that is still not well understood by many in the medical profession, and because research continues on the transmission and treatment of Lyme, I would say from my reading that it is possible *but not certain* that Lyme will be transmitted to your baby.

I think I posted here previously about someone I know who did not know until after her baby was born that she had Lyme, and that child today is healthy and happy and wonderful in every way.

I think (but have not researched it) that Lyme can be passed to the baby but it is not certain that it will be.  The important thing is that you know you have Lyme, so that your baby can commence treatment immediately after birth if the baby does have Lyme.  Having a pediatrician who understands Lyme and is ready to jump on the situation immediately is what I would do to prepare for the birth.

There is indeed hope that your baby will be fine, and try to keep good and positive thoughts in your mind, looking to the future.  I would get my docs lined up and then stay positive.  Meditate or do whatever helps you keep a good frame of mind, because that affects the baby too.  We are keeping you in our thoughts and sending you all good wishes --  hang on!  and keep us posted.
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You can try to get in touch with Dr. Charles Rays Jones, he deals with the case like yours.  Your doctor also can consult with him.

https://sites.google.com/site/drjoneskids/home
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Thank you so much fr your kind response. I am a very negative person ... Which has its pros and cons .. Pros : it got me my diagnosis eventually because I kept thinking no I am I'll I'm not stressed or hormonal something is going on in my body. My determination got me my diagnosis although it took 5 precious months ! .....

I've kind of accepted that baby will most likely have lyme but I'm trying to fid hope that the lyme hasn't caused any defects of organs etc and that if the lyme has gone to baby it has hopefully effected in a way that will be treatable after delivery . I was wondering though ... Who would treat a baby? If the cord blood test is positive wil anyone actually be willing to give a young newborn treatment?

Also.. I have been on amoxicillin a month now and will be through the pregnancy so ( ten months in total) will this make any difference for baby? As in, are these antibiotics going to placenta and helping at all ..... I'm so wrecked from this all :(
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Hey I wish there was an English Dr Jones ... I'm in the UK so I have no way of getting to him . And I believe he only treats on symptoms so baby would have to e showing symptoms before treatment . But I would consider flying over just to get some proper care
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So you have been amoxicillin for a month now, and am I correct in assume you are in your first month of pregnancy now? Actually. that's good...it is early in pregnancy.

I just recall that Dr. Jones felt it is ideal for pregnant mother to be on two antibiotics, a cell wall inhibitor and marcolide.

Amoxicillin is cell wall inhibitor, so see about getting second antiibotics, a  marcolide, then I would think your baby will be okay :)  

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No I caught lyme in my first month it went misdiagnosed until I wa 30 weeks pregnant ( 4weeks ago) so I have been on it but caught lyme in my first trimester ..... This is why I'm worried
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Perhaps you didn't see this in an earlier chain of messages.  This MD spoke a few years ago about pediatric at the ILADS conference.  It is at least a place to start.

Colin A. Walsh MB BCh MRCPI
Specialist Registrar in OB/GYN
Addenbrooke's Hospital, Cambridge, UK
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I can completely understand your concern. I would be just as worried.

Getting on antibiotics when you did will make a big difference. I think only time will tell if your baby has been affected by Lyme or not. Has your OB done an ultrasound recently to see if there are any visible concerns? It seems appropriate to do one.

If the cord blood is positive, then you'll definitely want to start treatment. The challenge will be in finding a doc who is willing to do that. If it is negative, then you just have to watch for symptoms, especially for excessive crying/sensitivity or delayed development.  Such symptoms could appear in the first few months, or a couple years later.

There are scary stories about kids born with it and never treated, or treated too late.  But because you have started amoxicillin and you know about it, your baby's odds are good.

I am still concerned about you stopping abx at the birth.  You might need another couple of months to be confident the Lyme is gone. Giving birth is hard on a body, and your immune system might not be up to the task of fighting off Lyme at that point by itself.

I would not breast feed if I were you. Too risky.  And if some months after the birth, you start to feel symptoms again, then you'll know it's back.

But while it is good to be informed and aware, your odds are good!
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Hello

I've come onto the forum after a "forum holiday" as Ricobord told me about you. I've had lyme for years, my son was born with lyme which he got from me.

I don't know if the antibiotic will prevent transmission or not, but it will certainly be helping to reduce the severity of the infection.
Follow up on Stargazer's advice about the macrolide.
You have to be your own doctor now you have lyme and let me tell you, your baby will never have a better doctor than you.
From now on, you can never fully trust any doctor. You have to double check everything.

Lyme babies are born with lyme, they do not have any other problems, increased risk of stil birth or any other worrying problem at all.
My son was born huge adn beautiful and we had no idea there was anything wrong, that is the usual way with lyme babies.

As a lyme mother, you are more likely to find you get no contractions, attempts to induce will not work and you'll end up having a cesarian. My boy was 2 weeks late and I had "cesarian" thrown at me with no time to read up on it. DO read up on it, the more you know beforehand the better.

Lyme spirochetes will be in your breast milk. Do not consider breast feeding for one second.In the UK you will likely be treated like an evil witch my medical staff for making this decision, DO NOT BACK DOWN.

Buy special formula milk that has probiotics added to it. Lyme babies need that to get their intestinal flora from day one, their immune system may not be able to do the job properly without this help.

You may have the Breakspear Hospital recommended to you in the UK. Their good lyme doctors have left in the last 3 years adn I am hearing more and more from people who are utterly underwhelmed by them adn defect to the Germans.
The German Lyme clinic in Augsberg is the best in Europe by far, I would definitely go to them if you cannot afford Charles Ray Jones.
www . b-c-a . de
Phone them immediately or email (yanks and germans) and tell them you are giving birth soon, give the dates, tell them you urgently need advice adn can they tel you what to do for your baby as soon as he is born?

Get the cord blood tested at
www. infectolab . de

Phone them to order the phials immediately, they send 6 tubes and you must fill them all then get the blood sent to them by courier. You'll need to give these to the medical staff to get them filled and makes sure a relative is on hand to grabs the phials and rush off instantly to the nearest TNT or DHL office for sending. (speak to these couriers to explain you'll be coming)
Don't use a UK lab because there is none that is reliable. Don't try the US, the blood gets held too long at customs and coagulates.
You nust get the test for bartonella as well as lyme, it is another tick borne infection that also crosses the placents and you could have it, it's very common in the UK, I have it.

Antibiotics are given to newborn babies. Whether lyme docs advise using them longish term I do not know.
The usual rule of thumb is that the sooner you start treating lyme, the easier and quicker it is to cure.

You start noticing autistic symptoms and signs of mental retardatin (or more often, regression) in lyme babies between 10 months and 2 years. (Doctors say 2 years, mothers say 10 months. )
So I think you'll want some kind of treatment certainly before then, ideally sooner.

This is obviously a huge brain dump, please ask specific questions abotu other details.

Don't panic. You need to plan this rationally and call in as many people as you have to help you.
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Hi thank you so much for you detailed reply.. In terms of my lyme it is fr from gone and will not be for a while I'm guessing... I have an appointment with the specialist who diagnosed me I have booked it for a week after my due date as I am thinking baby will be slightly early. I am hoping to discuss a more agressive treatment plan . I want to be tested for co infections but money is tight so I am hoping to go on a treatment plan which may cover my back in terms
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Sorry my post got sent to early!
Guys you have no idea how much this means to me your help.
In terms of the scan I am having an organ scan today as my biggest fear is the lyme has facets his organs as I caught it in such a crucial time of his development.
In terms of my treatment I am no where near done and I have an appointment at breakspear in the UK a week after due date to discuss treatment options!

You've got to be kidding.. Thank you very much g
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Sorry my post got sent to early!
Guys you have no idea how much this means to me your help.
In terms of the scan I am having an organ scan today as my biggest fear is the lyme has facets his organs as I caught it in such a crucial time of his development.
In terms of my treatment I am no where near done and I have an appointment at breakspear in the UK a week after due date to discuss treatment options!

You've got to be kidding.. Thank you very much for posting I feel a bit more positive ..... How was your son treated. Breakspear is where I am diagnosed an where I will be taking myself and baby once cord test is back.

I have ordered cord testing kit but will I need to stop the amox early as testing may be flawed?

How is your boy doing now?

Thanks again all of you
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It seems  you'vegottobekidding gave very helpful information, and do keep the  Augsberg clinic on your mind if Breakspear can't help any further.

No, you don't have to stop amox.   I was on abx when I did the western blot test, and it should not make any difference.



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Thanks so much for your advice. You say no still birth etc associated, this reassures me as all I seem to read is neonatal death and still birth.

I had specialist scan today of baby's organs Etc and all looked 'normal' doc has also said to induce at 38 weeks, I feel I have made progress today. He also said that baby needs monitoring after and has asked me to come back I lm two weeks so he can see weight gain over a two week period ( good indicator that baby is not growing in a compromised uterine environment) .

Did your baby show symptoms if so when? How long had u had lyme when he was born? How was / is he being treated

Thank u So much

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Is there some reason the doc fears the baby may have restricted growth/compromised uterine invironment?
There aren't really things lyme does.
My baby was quite a whopper and most of the other lyme babies I know were average. Perfect organs etc.
Dont' worry about that kind of stuff.

What lyme can do tp the baby is weaken his immune system. That's why you need to be a fussy mum who is paranoid about hygiene and doesn't let anyone with a cold come near him, don't let people kiss him etc. The probiotics I mentioned are the best possible help you can give his immune system. In a healthy person, 70 to 90 percent of the immune system is busy in teh gut all the time, maintaining the right balance of gut flora by killing the baddies. People with lyme usually get gut trouble as they usually cannot do a good job here. Taking a ton of probiotics give the immune system a constant helping hand.
Your baby will need to establish good gut flora and if his immune system is compromised, which it will be if he does have lyme, he may get off to a really bad start like my son did. My son's guts were atrocious, he was constantly in agony and had the worst constipation you could imagine. I so wich I had known about the probiotics back then to save him so much suffering.

Al the nasty stuff lyme does is to teh mum not the baby! Which of course is much better than the other way round.

What you do need to look out for are the following:
1. You hemorraging a bit at the birth. I hemorraged for a few days. This is because lyme can alter your sedimentation rate - get this tested just before the birth - not too early, it fluctuates from week to week. That way at least the docs can be prepared.

2. get your cortisol level tested before the birth. You will heal in slow motion if it is low. Given you haven't had lyme very long, it should be excessively high instead,  which is very good for you. I think you mentioned in another thread your pulse is going funny? that could simply be the effort of beating extra blood around your body, but it could also be low cortisol, or low calcium or magnesium.
You need your electrolytes measured (it's the first thing a cardiologist worth his salt would test) and to supplement if at all low.
You should get that done before the birth, your heart works terribly hard while in labour, you need it in top form

3. lyme attacks your elastin and makes your flesh very un-stretchy (don't know a medical term for that!). When you are trying to get a baby's head out of you, stretchiness is essential. I'm sorry to be the bearer of such bnad tidings but brace yourself for that fact you are very likely to have an episiotomy or a cesarian.

Now for my son.
I had had lyme 26 years when he was born.

He started showing symptoms at 10 months old. He forgot all the words he knew, stopped looking at me or anyone, people kept asking ,me if he was deaf. He ignored humans. At 3 he could not talk and didn't even seem to recognise his own name.
He had atrocious constipation and sndles tummy problems due to being allergic to milk and later, to nearly all other foods. He spent a long time in gret Ormond street where they etablished he was indeed allergic to all food adn that his guts were in a terrible state, with severe gastritis and damage to the whole intestine
from as soon as he was born, he screamed almost 24/7. He could sleep a maximum of 20 minutes in one go, to a total of 3 hours in 24. That lasted till he was 4.
He was diagnosed with mild/sub clinical chronic encephalitis. This is very common in babies with lyme and it is hard to diagnose. If your baby cries a lot you need to get a good doctor who can investigate this.

We were told he would probably never learn to talk and was severely retartded.

We found a great gastroenterologist when my son was 3 who put him on antifactors (antibodies derived from colostrum). to boost his immune system. He also helped us with his food allergies - also extremely common in  lyme babies - and put him on an artificial liquid feed for some months till his gut healed, then we could intriduce a few foods at a time.

Then we got a lyme diagnosis when my son was 4. He had already made tremendous progress on probiotics and antifactors. Adding antibiotics is doing the last part of the job. I think you should get your son on these immuenbboosters as soona s you can.
I wold be wary of using herbs, they are NOT a weak mild version of antibiotics, they are strong drugs and need to be used under guidance of an expert doctor.

My son is 6 now, he is bilingual and got 10 out of ten in nearly every subject at school last year. He is calm adn happy and although his energy levels are lower than other kids, he is fine and nobody would imagine he had any illness if they didn't know.
I wish I cuold go back in time knowing al I know now as I could have saved him 4 years of horrible suffering.

Sorry if I have told you things that scare you, it is better to know what to expect and know how to deal with it rather than get blindsided like I was.
I hope you'll hve a really easy burth, just do your homework beforehand!
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Thanks so much for your timely response.

I think doctor is going by what he has researched and it seems to involve a lot of outcomes regarding cardiac anomolies , respiratory distress etc. this has worried me the most as I got lyme at the worst possible time in terms of organ development. What do you think? His organs look okay after the intensive scan but on all case studies of firt trimester infection it mentions defects , neonatal death And still birth ( although they are very old case studies and I'm not sure if scans were a advanced as the one performed yesterday) . It also mentions blindness and deafness in these studies :( . Would you say lyme has the same effcts as syphillis (syphilis) in utero? If so untreated it seems to really invade the fetus causing al sorta of structural issues. I know I am treating now with low dose amox but before the lyme had 5 months of 'play time ' and this scares me.

In people who don't transfer it over who were untreated how does that work? Surely my blood is his blood and it goes to him? Or is there more science behind it? Do you know? I read in my situation I have a 63 percent chance I've transmitted it but I don't understand how it's not transmitted ?

all scans have been fine and yesterday's scan shows he is right on schedule weighing 5.5 pounds.. Considering I had a 3d scan 5 weeks ago in which his estimated weight was 3.4 pounds it seems he is putting on weight appropriately. The doctor wants to scan me again in two weeks so he can see how much weight he has put on, he says roughly speaking he should e one pound heavier next scan.

In regards to probiotics anti factors, can u do this without a prescription? Would somewhere like holland barratt do these? Would I give them straight from birth?

That is excellent news about your son. Where idid you get him treated? What treatment did he receive and how long did it take for him to get this far? Is he fully recovered now?

In regards to cord testing if it comes back positive what is my next move? An nhs doctor may not understand treatment of lyme ? And especially children? The other side is if negative do I just wait and watch? Or do I get him tests regularly to see if anything shows?

I've already made an appointment for him at breakspear in early December when the cord test will be back and from what I gather after emailing them about treatment they said it would be probably be based around his immune system with mild herbal treatment ?

Another issue is I don't know if I have co infections .... I can't get tested anytime soon as me and my partner can't afford too ... Is there any treatment method which could cover my grounds in terms of the co infections until I got tested?

I'm terrified I won't be able to enjoy his early year because of this? :(

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Just to insert a question... Why does your doc want to induce at 38 weeks?  

There was a recent study published where they found that each week past the so-called full term of 37 weeks, children had fewer behavioral and learning difficulties. A relative of ours had a baby in early August and her OB refused to induce early, but also wouldn't let her go past the due date. If she didn't go into labor first, she would get her scheduled C-section on the due date.

Anyway, word spread fast here in the States about this study showed that the old belief (that a delivery after 37 weeks was fine) was not completely true. Apparently, there is important brain development in those last three weeks that isn't the same as after birth. If you can make it to 40 weeks, your baby will have better prospects than if delivered at 38 weeks.
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I didnt' want to raise this among all the other worries, but I was also wondering about this. My son was born 2 weeks past due date, which is definitely not a good idea either, but every week inside Mum counts for a baby.
However, I don't think it's a really big deal and the doc must have is reasons - though I would ask him what they are!

On to other things.

First, I looked online  for those "studies" with all the scary results, and have not found anything published in a peer reviewed medical journal based on hard statistical evidence. What I am saying is, I honestly have grave doubts about their reliability.
My lyme doc has never mentioned anything like this, and when we got diagnosed we did have a long talk about transmisison in utero.

Lyme most certainly does not have the same effects as syphilis in utero. syphilis causes tissue damge and atrophy in adults and does the same to developing babies. That means they are born deformed. Lyme doesn't do that. I can inflame your nerves but it cannot cause any permanent  damage. it messes up hormone production and unbalances loads of enzyme systems, and mucks up your immune system, but doesn't physically alter any organ and doesn't do anything irreversible.

The main thing is you've had a scan and if there were problems, they would have shown up. The scans they do nowadays are incredibly sensitive.

Some kids don't catch the illness because, lyme doesn't particularly love hanging about in your blood. For periods of time, usually when it is lying low and not flaring up, it lurks in various body organs but the level in your blood may be so low it is not really detectible. If that's the case when you're pregnant, your baby may be spared.

I had lyme from the moment I concieved my son and had no treatment at all, as I had no diagnosis. And ym lyme was pretty bad while I was pregnant. So I think in my case transmission was inevitable.

Probiotics are not drugs so yes, you don't need a prescription. I think you could find better quality than Holland and Barret stuff. They do make probiotics specifically for newborn babies, I think it would be best to look for them. Get the very best quality you can find. You give them right from birth.

Just realied I got the wrong name, it's not antifactors but transfer factors (lyme brain!)
The ones my doc advises are these
https: // www.researchednutritional s. com/store/item.cfm?code=CRN114&cat=17

They used to need a prescription, and this link is to ones for adults.
I'd talk to teh doc abot something for babies.
My son had a liquid form that is only available in italy as far as I can tell, called immunozima. That's specially for babies and kids. His blood tests show it has made amazing improvements in his immune system so it really is worth tracking an equivalent down.

My son does still have lyme but is pretty much symptom free.
Once we got him on transfer factors it took about 6 months to get a spectacular turnaround. By the time he started antibiotics (3 years ago, a year after starting transfer factors) he had already made about 80 percent or more of his recovery.
We get him treated at the clinci in Germany I mentioned before.

An NHS doctor is highly unlikely to understand lyme.
Have you talked abotu your post-burth treatment? If they tell you you will be cured with 2 months of docycycline, you need a new doctor. If they tell you they are willing to prescribe you combinde abx for months, they do understand lyme.
You could start your own homework and see how willingyour doc is to be educated by printing the ILADs treatment guidelines from the ILADS website (it's a dot org address)and taking them to the doc.

If your son tests positive, I cannot recommend anywhere other than the clinic in Germany, I have been to doctors all over England, in Great Ormond Street hospital (where they know nothing about lyme and almost killed my son) all over Italy, Belgium and several docs in Germany before finding this clinic.

The usual procedure if negative is to retest after 3 months and again after another 3 months,m if stil all slear you are safe.

Many combined abx regimes do deal with coinfections. At the least they would hold the fort I think.

I would want to know what immune support the Breakspear plans for your baby. Coudl you get an appointment in advance so you have already reserched and feel happy with the plan before baby is born?

To treat lyme with herbs, you need a tried and tested, full herbal protocol. If you randomly pick out one or 2 herbs that are good against lyme, you wil not cure lyme, just as taking one or two of randomly selected antibiotics will not cure it. You need a properly balanced blend.
So ask them what herbs they want to use, then look them up online.
Research everything.

When you give abx you need regular liver checks adn with most herbs it's not necessary, so that could be a good reason not to give baby abx (no blood tests). On the other hand, herbs are never ever going to be as powerful as antibiotics and they take on average four times longer to work than abx do. If baby could potentially have abx, than that is what I personally would want for my baby.
I don't know and it is hard to find info online about treting newborns.

Have you tried contacting Charles Ray Jones yet? I seriously would contact his assistant adn ask if you could get an urgent telephone consultation. Perhaps write an email briefly explaing your situation so they get it loud and clear that you need to know what to do when baby pops out!

Bottom line, my son got no antibiotic treatment till he was 4 and he is doing great, so, it's not a make or break thing I think. Do all you can to get this right from teh start, but don't give yourself a nervous breakdown over it. Have faith that it will work out OK.

And also rememebr to take care of yourself!
Have you started notifying all your female relatives that you will need babysitting help and Mumysitting help fairly soon?
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Thanks so much for you reply!

I'm learning so much !

The doc says to induce between 38-40 weeks to ensure I do not go over due date - not too sure about reasoning but I think he says its best not to go over the due date. I may ask to be nearer to 40 weeks ( this is all providing I don't go into labour before this time )

The studies are pretty old but its all I can find in regards to first trimester infection- the outcomes were never proved linked to borrelia but they did find lyme within the baby's organs so I'm uncertain - because I feel vulnerable I feel I'm looking at it all really negatively. I'm scared that no recent studies have been done regarding first trimester infection which is when organs are developing etc - all I can see is 'risk is highest in first trimester' this scares me so much :( ... All says with appropriate antibiotics risk is minimal but as you know I have only started treatment a month ago - the lyme had so long to run riot :(

I feel like I'm doomed as all the bad stuff seems to happen to women untreated and infection during the first tri ( I feel like I fall into all the really bad outcome category's)

In regards to syphillis (syphilis) I'm glad you said that they are different as I was also looking up outcomes for that and it doesn't look good at all! - do you think if baby was to have a defect in terms of organs it would have showed on the scans I have had ?

I looked on my consultation notes and it said ' scan appears normal and all organs appear normal considering limitations of gestation and scan - heart and brain was looked at in particular due to concers regarding anomalies and both appear normal as far as we can see ' - this should reassure me right.

On my birth plan which I finalised today with the consultant he has also requested I stay in hospital 48 hrs after birth ( in UK you are told to leave within 6 hrs of birth if all goes okay ) for pediatricians to monitor baby in terms of any signs of distress or respiratory issues - the lungs are not used until Birth so I'm praying that little man is okay in this department too .

So i can use probiotics from birth with baby ? And the anti factors ? Are these used along side pro biotics ? What are the exact purpose of them ? Could I use them with a treatment regime or him?

I have an appointment regarding my treatment at breakspear on 3rd December so I will change to something agressive ish - I hope to get rid of this as quickly as I can I hope it is possible ! My middle finger has started to uncontrollably jerk over the past 2 days - is this a new symptom or some kind of small die off due to the amoxicillin? I hope it's the latter !

Yes all family are on board and realise I may need more help than usual so I am thankful for that! I'm just really hoping this doesn't rule my life and that me and my son ( if he has it) can eventually be Lyme free - I hope this can happen?

Youvegottobekidding ... Have you heard of eye issues and congenital lyme? Another one of my worrys :(

I am going to contact dr jones again I tried once but the woman told me he doesn't deal with phone patents :s

Thanks again for all of your help - what abx was your son on? Does he have a co infection?

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This fellow is at least in your time zone, and lectured at ILADS a few years ago, so here's his name, one more time, fwiw.

Colin A. Walsh MB BCh MRCPI
Specialist Registrar in OB/GYN
Addenbrooke's Hospital, Cambridge, UK

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Thanks so much for you reply!

I'm learning so much !

The doc says to induce between 38-40 weeks to ensure I do not go over due date - not too sure about reasoning but I think he says its best not to go over the due date. I may ask to be nearer to 40 weeks ( this is all providing I don't go into labour before this time )

The studies are pretty old but its all I can find in regards to first trimester infection- the outcomes were never proved linked to borrelia but they did find lyme within the baby's organs so I'm uncertain - because I feel vulnerable I feel I'm looking at it all really negatively. I'm scared that no recent studies have been done regarding first trimester infection which is when organs are developing etc - all I can see is 'risk is highest in first trimester' this scares me so much :( ... All says with appropriate antibiotics risk is minimal but as you know I have only started treatment a month ago - the lyme had so long to run riot :(

I feel like I'm doomed as all the bad stuff seems to happen to women untreated and infection during the first tri ( I feel like I fall into all the really bad outcome category's)

In regards to syphillis (syphilis) I'm glad you said that they are different as I was also looking up outcomes for that and it doesn't look good at all! - do you think if baby was to have a defect in terms of organs it would have showed on the scans I have had ?

I looked on my consultation notes and it said ' scan appears normal and all organs appear normal considering limitations of gestation and scan - heart and brain was looked at in particular due to concers regarding anomalies and both appear normal as far as we can see ' - this should reassure me right.

On my birth plan which I finalised today with the consultant he has also requested I stay in hospital 48 hrs after birth ( in UK you are told to leave within 6 hrs of birth if all goes okay ) for pediatricians to monitor baby in terms of any signs of distress or respiratory issues - the lungs are not used until Birth so I'm praying that little man is okay in this department too .

So i can use probiotics from birth with baby ? And the anti factors ? Are these used along side pro biotics ? What are the exact purpose of them ? Could I use them with a treatment regime or him?

I have an appointment regarding my treatment at breakspear on 3rd December so I will change to something agressive ish - I hope to get rid of this as quickly as I can I hope it is possible ! My middle finger has started to uncontrollably jerk over the past 2 days - is this a new symptom or some kind of small die off due to the amoxicillin? I hope it's the latter !

Yes all family are on board and realise I may need more help than usual so I am thankful for that! I'm just really hoping this doesn't rule my life and that me and my son ( if he has it) can eventually be Lyme free - I hope this can happen?

Youvegottobekidding ... Have you heard of eye issues and congenital lyme? Another one of my worrys :(

I am going to contact dr jones again I tried once but the woman told me he doesn't deal with phone patents :s

Thanks again for all of your help - what abx was your son on? Does he have a co infection?

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Hello nervous mum!

My son is on oraxim and azithromycin. This is what my doctor uses on children below 8, who cannot be given minocycline or doxycycline.

I do have bartonella as a co infection adn several others, but my son luckily doesn't.

Honestly, I have NEVER heard of eye issues, deformed organ issues, still birth, miscarriage or anything else with congenital lyme. I've been on a forum for mothers of kids with lyme disease for several years and nobody on there has a kid with any deformity, funny organs, blindness or anything else. What they have is kids with lyme disease and autism.
There are families with three or sometimes more kids with lyme disease. But no deformities etc.
Seriously, you seem deeply stressed and in my opinion it is not justified at all. Especially since you have had a scan which says the baby is absolutely fine. The wording of teh scan that you quoted is standard woring (like school reports). A doctor is never ever going to write "this baby is absolutely perfect and  totally fine beyond any doubt whatsoever" because then you could sue him if baby was born with a few hairs missing. But that IS what your scan report means. Baby is fine.

Yes you would use probiotics and transfer factors from birth.
They can be used with or without antibiotics or any other medicines.

The probiotics are the best possible help you can give his immune system. In a healthy person, 70 to 90 percent of the immune system is busy in teh gut all the time, maintaining the right balance of gut flora by killing the bad bacteria that constantly enter when you eat or drink. People with lyme usually get gut trouble as they usually cannot do a good job here. Taking a ton of probiotics give the immune system a constant helping hand. That frees it up to concentrate on fighting lyme bacteria around the body.

Transfer factors are antibodies. Basically, you wold be giving baby a whole range of antibodies to a huge number of infections. It's the same princimple as mother's breast milk helping baby, except mroe concentrated, and of course better because your own breast milk WILL have lyme disease in it and must not go near your baby.

Have you tried contacting Dr Colin Walsh at Addenbrookes? He has done very extensive research on babies with congenital lyme and it seems that currently he is the top man in the UK for this issue. ONE OF THE TOP MEN WORLDWIDE.
Also he's an NHS doctor so you won't have to pay.
Go to your GP adn ask to be referred directly to him through book adn choose (Do you know how that works? I'll explain if you don't)

How is your partner reacting to all this? Is he helping you with research etc?

Take care,
I'm sending you a big hug and hoping you'll find a way to feel more mellow!
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Thanks for replying means a lot sorry if I'm starting to bore you lol! Just the Internet is a Cary place and id rather have info from someone who has had first hand experience rather than a site full of scary stories.

All I ever see about lyme and pregnancy on the Internet is still birth and malformations etc ? Do you think that's because I'm searching for lyme acquired during pregnancy which is my case rather than before it which was your case. - that's why I'm getting  so worked up because everywhere says the worst cases happen with mothers who caught it during he first trimester and went untreated ( basically my situation ) :( I'm so stressed with this all.

Great so the transfer factors can be given regardless of test outcome? Do you keep your boy on them with the antibiotics too?

I rang addenbrookes and they seem to think dr Walsh no longer works thre :s do you have any contact details for him I have been searching ?

My partner is trying to be positive which is good but he's a bit clueless about lyme and does seem to leave all the research down to me ! He says I'm mad stressing myself out because it is what it is and reading another case study about it is not gonna help me or baby and that I'd baby has lyme we deal with it then but for now there's nothing I can do to change what will happen or won't happen! That's his attitude - seems blunt but he says he has to be otherwise we would Be running around like headless chickens! He has been very supportive in his own ways but at the minute he chooses not to look to much into lyme but says he will once he's faced with it in our baby etc :/

What group is that you joined ? Might be helpful to have a look

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Is there a central registry for MDs in the UK, where their location and contact information would be listed?  I would think it likely.  So I would ring up the registry and track down Dr Walsh ex-Addenbrookes.  

You are dealing with a lot, so remember to slow down and take some deep breaths and think peaceful thoughts for your baby, and for yourself.  You are very conscientious, clearly -- but too much worry is not helpful!  Take care, you're doing fine -- all good wishes to you and yours.  
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Thanks Jackie! No there isn't a list. I can't find any contact for dr Colin Walsh :s

I'm trying to relax i feel like I can't get excited because I don't know the outcome :/ is his really bad? I'm so excited to see him but I get scared by this emotion as I don't know for sure what effect the lyme has had :( x
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I think I've tracked Colin Walsh down to the National Maternity hospital in Dublin.
http:/ /www. linkedin. com/pub/colin-walsh/43/945/a3

Which is quite a bummer as I doubt you could see him there.

But actually not so much, because the important thing is to have good midwives and doctors getting the baby out of you and that is going to be absolutely fine.

You give transfer factors along along with antibiotics. If baby is negative for lyme, it's not necessary to give anything at all.

What I think you should do now is stop looking online and start listening to your partner!
At the end of the day, the only real answers you will get will be when you get the cord blood test result back. And as your sensible partner says, if it's positive, then you start to deal with it.

I understand about the research thing, I do it too, and seomtimes I wish my husband would be more involved in researchig things to help our son. But on the other hand, it's possible to go over the top and sometimes you need to look for distractions instead.
My husband actually told me he thought I shoudl stop logging on here over the summer as I was depressed and he realised I needed to stop thinking abotu having lyme disease and focus on fun instead. He was right and it did me good.

Honestly, I know it is going to be impossible for you to get excited about having a baby when you ar worried about this, so instead I think you shuld try to concentrate on yourself for now and spend your tme doing things you enjoy ad which will take your mind off it. I think you shuld tell your partner you need his help and you'd like him to organise a few things.
I never tell my husband this and he had to get bossy with me but honestly, it ALWAYS helps.

Sending you a big hug again, and hope you can find a better mood to take you through the rest of this pregnancy.
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Well said, 'YouveGot' --

I would agree, there's a time to chill and go with the flow, and right before a baby is born is one of those.  

Rest, sing little songs to your baby (they can hear in there!), meditate on the loveliness of motherhood -- tho it always comes with worry of some kind.

Lyme irritates the brain and disarranges the emotions, so your anxiety is not your doing; none of this is your fault, and you are doing everything you can to prepare.  Take comfort in that, and carry on.  

We're all of us -- in places all around the world -- thinking of you and your family --
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Isn't it inevitable that my baby has it if I caught lyme in firsttrimester and had an active infection which went untreated for 5 months? Or could there be a possibility he's clear ( I can't imagine this )

Thanks so much for all of your help ! I do appreciate it. With the cord test igenex can only run the PCR on the cord and I read antibiotocs produce a false neg result and as I'm on antibiotics up to the birth wouldn't this result be useless ?

Just wondered any thoughts

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There is no way to guarantee that your baby has *not* gotten Lyme prenatally, but I would be comforted by the knowledge that it is not inevitable that the baby will have Lyme and not inevitable that there will be untreatable problems IF the baby has Lyme.  I can tell you are very concerned, which I certain understand, but the best you can do for yourself and your baby and your husband now is to think peaceful and positive thoughts, and then deal with whatever the situation is after your baby is born.  Worrying now will just stress you out, and will stress your baby and your husband too.  You have, it seems, done everything you can and everything I would do in your situation, so let it go.  Put it in the hands of faith and fate.  Pray if you are religious ... and pray even if you are not, to God or Gaia or Mother Nature or whoever you like.  (It can't hurt, and it will reduce your stress load.  The stress hormones [adrenalin] that you are releasing now through worry are not helpful to you or your baby or your husband.  If you want to take an affirmative act, the first one I would take is to put the worry away and think positive thoughts.)

The following is from the website of the Columbia University Lyme disease research center in New York City, which is highly respected.  You will note that the research cited (which goes back several years) indicates that there CAN be adverse outcomes from Lyme in pregnancy, but if you look at the results as a whole and not just the relatively few cases in which there were problems, the odds are definitely in your favor.  

That is what I would keep firmly in mind -- that things will probably be fine, and worrying about it all now will do NO good, and are just churning up anxiety in you, which the baby then experiences.  You can make your baby's life better today by being calm today.

Have a plan with your doctor for post-birth assessment and testing and for possible antibiotic treatment if needed, but until you get past the birth, there is nothing profitable to be had from worrying so much.  I would encourage you to think positively and focus on the good things in life that you have:  a husband who loves you, a baby who needs you and knows your heartbeat already, and a plan for testing and treatment if needed.  

That is all you can do -- so relax.  That is the best gift you can give yourself and your family right now.  The mother sets the tone of the household, and you have that within your power.  We are all thinking of you and know you can do this, for yourself, for your husband, and for your baby.

=================================================
http://asp.cumc.columbia.edu/lymedisease/askthedr/for_pt/displayanswer1-lyme.asp?Departments=LymeDisease&Controlnumber=347

"Should I be concerned about Lyme disease if I am pregnant?"

The simplest answer to this question is that a woman who contracts Lyme disease during her pregnancy is at risk of transferring infection to her fetus. These women should receive antibiotic treatment as soon as possible; it might also be wise after childbirth to have the placenta examined histologically and for spirochetes.

Antibiotics that may be used include amoxicillin or penicillin. Pregnant women in Lyme endemic areas should be particularly vigilant about avoiding areas with high tick exposure.

Less clear is what to recommend to women who contracted Lyme disease prior to pregnancy and who have been treated adequately. Research suggests that these women appear to be at no increased risk of adverse fetal outcomes than women who did not have Lyme disease. That is good news, of course.

This question needs to be studied more carefully with larger sample sizes. Research reports indicate the following:

a. Transplacental transmission of Bb (the agent of Lyme Disease) has been documented in a woman who did not receive antibiotic therapy.

b. Dr. Alan MacDonald in 1986 reported on 4 cases of aborted fetuses in which Borrelia spirochetes were cultured from fetal liver. In one case, there was evidence of positive fluorescence after a monoclonal mouse antibody specific for Bb was applied to the tissue.

c. In 1986, Drs. Markowitz, Steere, Benach, Slade and Broome reported on 19 cases of Lyme disease during pregnancy in which 13 received antibiotic therapy. Adverse outcomes occurred in 5 of the 19 pregnancies; the varied outcomes could not be definitely linked to Lyme disease.

d. In 1989, Dr Olesk and others reported that of 143 pregnant women who had been serum tested for Lyme disease, only one of the 12 patients who miscarried had tested positive -- this was consistent with the conclusion that a positive serum Lyme test does not increase risk of miscarriage.

e. In 1993, Drs. Strobino, Williams, and others reported on a study of prenatal exposure to Lyme Disease in which seroconversion was assessed at the time of the first visit to delivery. Of 1,290 women tested twice, only one seroconverted and this woman had a healthy child. This study found that neither the diagnosis of Lyme disease in the past nor living in a highly endemic area were associated with fetal death, low birth weight, or congenital malformations.

f. In 1995, Dr. Williams, Strobino and others reported on an umbilical cord serologic study of 5,000 babies: one cohort from an endemic area and one from a non-endemic area. Infants were followed up to 6 months of age. Mothers of infants in the endemic area were 5-20 times more likely to have been exposed to B.Burgdorferi in the past compared to mothers of infants in the non-endemic area. Within the endemic cohort, there were no differences in the rate of major or minor malformations or birth weight by maternal LD history or cord blood serology.

g. In 1999, Drs. Strobino, Abid and Gewitz reported on a case-control study in a Lyme endemic area designed to specifically address the risks of congenital heart disease and maternal Lyme disease. Cases were comprised of children with congenital heart defects and controls were selected from among children seen at the same pediatric cardiology service with no abnormalities. There was no association between congenital heart disease and maternal tick bite, or maternal Lyme disease within 3 months of conception or during pregnancy.

==end==
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Thanks Jackie I have relaxed tonight !
I really do appreciate all your support .
So u have any input on my PCR cord test and antibiotics? I need to take the abx until delivery but igenex tell me it could interfere with the test? In a dilemma

Also my regular gp wants me to have flu jab and whopping cough jab - I read something about jabs and lyme and wondered what I should do? Have them or not?

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I wish I had some useful information for you on the tests and vaccinations, but I wasn't in my baby-making days when I had Lyme, and although it took me a while to figure out that I needed an LLMD to diagnose me, from there it was a straight line to antibiotics and getting well, also under the LLMD's care.

Others here have had a more winding road, and especially with a baby coming, your questions are all very good ones.  I'm sure someone here will pop up with some data for you.

I admire your grit in continuing to figure out the best courses of action -- and also am glad that you can find a little island of calm and leave the worry behind for a while.  Do you sing to your baby?  The baby knows your voice, and the vibrations must be nice for the little one as they flow down through your body ... and triple bonus:  singing is very relaxing for the singer.

"Sleep, my child, and peace attend thee, all through the night --
Guardian angels God will send thee, all through the night --
Soft the drowsy hours are creeping, hill and vale in slumber steeping.
I my loving vigil keeping, all through the night."
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I don't have much to add in to this discussion, but I thought I would comment on the idea of getting a couple of vaccinations at this point.  

I personally would need to be convinced that there is a big advantage to getting them now. This is not a medical opinion, but rather a gut feeling that your immune system doesn't need to be expending energy fighting off new things right now.  I would want it to save its energy for fighting off Lyme.

However, if the antibodies produced will provide some flu and whooping cough protection to the baby, that would be a different story, especially if you're not going to breastfeed.  

But, I would think that you could keep him away from anyone who shows any signs of a cold, flu, or cough and that would help a great deal.  Whooping cough is still uncommon, so what are the odds?

Here in the states, it isn't just a whooping cough vaccine.  It is a Diptheria, Tetnus, Pertussis (whopping cough) vaccine.  I usually feel crummy for a day or two after getting it as my immune system fights off three things at once.  If this is the same in the UK, then, if you add in the flu, now you're getting four new things at once.

I would encourage you to talk this through with the doctor who is recommending them.  Definitely ask your OB about it. I would also ask the doc who is going to treat you for Lyme what he thinks.

I personally would need to be convinced that it is really important, as it is not a trivial thing to ask of your body right now.

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And if it's any encouragement, your partner is right. It will be what it will be.  Even if you have to deal with Lyme in your son, now you know what to do, and that he'll be okay with treatment. Be comforted in that.  He has a good chance of not having it. Transfer to a fetus is not automatic.

Take it easy and do whatever you need to do to distract yourself from worry.

Is the nursery ready?  Do you have some adorable little clothes yet? :)  Remind yourself about the wonderful things to come.  You'll need your energy for the sleepless nights of the first couple weeks.  Every Mum deals with that! ;)
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19729989

I just searched for

                 whooping cough uk 2012

and it sounds like there's a bit of an epidemic in the UK.  I didn't read far enough to see if they don't bundle the shots like in the US for the DPT ... but that may be an issue too.  See link above -----
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Don't have any vaccinations yourself.
Try to get exemption from your son getting any non-essential vaccinations till you know he definitely doesn't have lyme disease.
Vaccinations are a heavy blow to the immune system in babies with lyme. They sometimes make baby's lyme disease get worse, other times, they actually don't work at all so they stil get the illness the vaccine was supposed to prevent.

Where I live in Italy the MMR is obligatory but I got an exemtion for my son because if the tests showing his abnormal immune system.
If you are forced legally to have your son vaccinated, insist the vacs are done one by one, not in batches. The law does NOT ever specify that vaccines have to be done in groups.

Whooping cough: I was vaccinated against it but it didn't work. One whooping cough vaccination in ten doesn't give immunity.
All kids in the UK are supposed to have a whoopig cough vaccination so the fact there's an epidemic (which there is every few years in the UK) proves how inneffective the mass vacciantion is, doesn't it?
I got whopping cough when I was 16.

Pesonally I would not have any vaccinations done on a baby with lyme disease.
As Ricobord said, keep yourself and your baby away from anyone with any illness, however mild.

As far as birth abnormalities go, I posted a message on the other forum adn 5 mothers replied saying they all had between 1 and 3 babies who were physically fine, born big and normal except they have lyme disease and cognitive problems (autism spectrum). Just like my son.
So that is the worst case outcome you can expect.

One of them also said that her son was born with lyme adn she added co-infections to the mix by breastfeeding. So in case you haven't taken this in properly, let me say it yet again, you must not breast feed your baby.

As Jackie said, gettig realyl stressed will be over working your adrenal glands and makig them produce excessive amounts of cortisol. This is a hormone that suppresses the immunbe system. Suppresingyour immune system when you have lyme disease is that last thing you need to do, so, for the sake of your health, you need to find a way to feel more mellow!!!

Singing is a good idea. Listen to music that you like. Watch back to back comedies on TV. Go for walks. whatever will help you chill out a bit!

Take care,
sendingyou hugs again,
YGBK
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Thanks again :)

Did any of the mothers acquire lyme during early pregnancy !? Or we're they all before pregnancy xxx
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And yes I will not breast feed I Bought actimel forumae today and have ordered pro biopics and transfer factors - what ones do you use? What shop/online source do you use?

Midwives have already hounded me about breast feeding even after explaining why! They tried to book me a class for first time mothers breast feeding and I said there's no point but they still booked it anyway an when I didn't turn up the hospital rang as asked why I was being non compliant or something ! :/

I've already told my partner and mum I I'm out of it after birth do not let them push baby on to me.

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I thought this would happen with the breastfeeding. In the UK it has become a crazy obsession.
Print this to take with you next time you have to see the breastfeeding Hitlers:
http:/ /www.ncbi.nlm.nih. gov/pubmed /7648832
(You'll have to remove the spaces I put in)

One argument used is that it has not been proved that the borrelia in breast milk does actually infect the baby. But nobody has proved that it DOESN'T. So why should you take the risk? Who wants to be the volunteer in such a dangerous experiment?

Also, your only hope of getting curted of lyme disease is to get on a large dose of doxycycline the minute baby pops out of you adn breastfeeding is absolutely forbidden when you're on that, it's dangerous for children up to 8 years of age and does get into breast milk.
On balance, this argument may be the easier one for you to win with them because I don't think anyone could argue that your lyme disease does need teating, even tough they probably will insist if can be cured with only 8 weeks of antibiotics. Which it can't.

As for the babies on the forum, One of the mothers got lyme during pregnancy and some already had it before. Some of them don't know exactly when.

Right I have to go for now.
Take care!
I'll ask my sister about probiotics for newborns. The ones >I give my son are for children on solid foods.
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Thanks a lot . What forum is it? I can't find any xx
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You'veGot says above:  "Also, your only hope of getting curted of lyme disease is to get on a large dose of doxycycline the minute baby pops out of you... "

Your docs may treat with something other than doxycycline -- to my understanding, it has a tendency to force the Lyme bacteria into hiding in the body, rather than being out in the open where they can be killed.  My LLMD treated with two medications at the same time, an antibiotic (other than doxy) to kill the bacteria and also Flagyl/metronidazole, which penetrates the cyst-like biofilms Lyme bacteria hide in so the immune system cannot locate them.  These 'cyst-buster' medications are very often used in the US by Lyme specialists except in very very recent cases of infection.  

That aside, the caution against breastfeeding stands, from what I have read in various places.

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Hey jackie!

Do you mean doxy is good or doxy is not so good? I'm planning to go on some kind of combo abx after delivery and I have no idea what treatment will work etc. that's one part of lyme I really don't get.

What combo would be good do u think? I want something to cover my back incase I have co infections as I can't test for them just yet as I am low on cash with getting baby stuff.

I don't know if this is possible ? I heard doxy covers a few but don't wanna take something which will not be good at killing this awful bacteria

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Doxy is not a bad medication, it's just that Lyme specialists have found that it is not always the most effective medication against Lyme unless given very very soon after the bite, and many of us don't know when we were bitten -- or if we do see the tick, don't know if it was really the first infection, since not everyone sees the tick or gets the circular rash.

Lyme bacteria have a survival method of hiding in tissue without much blood flow, such as cartilage of the joints, so that the immune system doesn't notice the bacteria and thus can't kill them.  The Lyme bacteria also have the ability to create 'biofilms', which are slimy shields where they can hide undetected. The bacteria can still be killed by doxy early in the infection, before the bacteria go into hiding in the body, but after that early period, Lyme specialists will usually prescribe two antibiotics at the same time:  one to break up the biofilms (often Flagyl/metronidazole) and one to then kill the bacteria (a variety of antibiotics such as amoxicillin and others).

These are not expensive medications, but it takes a physician wise to the ways of Lyme to know what to prescribe.  

(Rico, what's your favored combo?)
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Thanks for that info! So is amoxicillin a good abx ? Could I stay on that but mate up the dose and add another? Is it usually two abx used? I have quite a few neuro symptoms - they don't completely destroy me like stories I have read as in I still lead a pretty normal life but I do suffer from odd sensations such as jolts. Burning. Tingling . Twitching etc . But not too severe to cause me to crash and burn (yet) .

I wonder what oral abx are available for neuro lyme? I don't know if the Amox has made any difference to my lyme symptoms yet? It's been a month now and I don't know if they have el
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Sorry posted to soon ...

Made a difference .... Maybe it's too low a dose ...
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Different doctors have different approaches, because Lyme and its co-infections are still something of a mystery as to what works and what works better.  That's why it's important to have a knowledgeable MD and not try to guess what will work.  Lyme treatment is definitely not a do-it-yourself project, but it is important to be interested as you are about treatment and so on.

There are different strains of Lyme in different parts of the world, and some respond better to one drug or set of drugs than others do.  Then the co-infections (other diseases the same ticks often carry) make it even more complicated.  Again:  the reason for a wise MD.

I would not be upping the dosage on the theory that is some is good, then more is better.  

The single most important thing to do, in my experience, is to find a knowledgeable and experienced MD who takes Lyme seriously.  The diagnoses and treatments are a complex dance that takes time and skill to defeat.  I am given to understand that the NHS is not keen on aggressive Lyme treatment, and we have that problem to some extent in the US also, where the organizations that claim expertise in knowing how to treat Lyme are very backward-looking in their approaches and do not want to keep learning.

There are a number of people who post here who are or have been in the UK and know the ways to deal with the situation, and a very good step is to find a physician affinity group like ILADS (International Lyme and Associated Disease Society) is in the US that takes a progressive view of Lyme diagnosis and treatment.

I just searched online for

                          ILADS UK

and got some interesting links that may lead you to an enlightened MD.  ILADS held its 2010 annual conference in London in 2010, and it wasn't just for the scenery.  

You can email to

                     contact [at] ILADS [dot] org

and tell them where you are located -- they may be able to give you the name of an MD near you who is ILADS-wise.

Best wishes to you and yours --  
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Igenex reply about the PCR cord test and intake in abx : 'Leah,

There is a possibility that antibiotics may kill off the bacteria in the sample that we test, so a negative result may occur. And there is always a possibility that it may have no effect. We cannot say for sure which is why we recommend patients to be off antibiotics for up to three weeks before collecting the sample.

It is up to the patient and physician if they still wish to proceed with the testing, antibiotics or not. We cannot make a recommendation on whether to test or not'

Looks like iwont know either way by results :(
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i am so sorry you are going through this. my thoughts are with you. hope your obgyn is up on all this..
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Thank you! Yes it seems everything is in place x
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Here's the message my sister sent me about probiotics - I've just copied the whole thing as she wrote it

"The probiotics I mentioned were the Biocare ones, they make ones for kiddies and one called Infantis for 'little babies.

http:/ /www. biocare.co. uk/default.aspx?GroupGuid= 29&ProductGuid=16960&PageItemGroup Guid=1062

It's specially  good for tiny babies either C section or not breast-fed, and probably ideal for any with immune compromisation.



However, I have also discovered another really excellent one which I believe is also suitable for babies though it doesn't say so exlicitly on their website ( http:/ /www.symprove. com/ ) but their website is very informative, and you can email them directly to ask about giving it to babies, and to get the lowdown as they aren't allowed by law to put up all the proper information that they'd like to (it's all due to EU laws about making medicinal claims and which type of licence you have forked out for as a manufacturer bla bla bla - bureaucratic nonsense basically making it hard for them to explain properly what it's for).  They developed the product from 10 yrs of research at UCL and I think it's the bees knees in probiotic terms.

It's worth reading all the pages of their website as it is very interesting and informative."
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As far as doxy goes, I mentioned that as I thought it was the most widely used.
My doctor prescribes Minocycline (the next generation version of doxy, but it works on lyme bacteria in the same way) for just about all his adult patients. He always prescribes it with artemisia or plaquenil, which burst open the cystic forms of the bacteria.
Perhaps it's still effective against the European strains of borrelia?

As Jackie said, figuring out which antibiotics are best is not a do it yourself job, it really does take an expert to know what is best for each person.
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Thank you I have just emailed them now ! :)

Where do I get the transfer factors from ?
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I contacted he German clinic and they are sending me out a test kit they can to the igg igm westernblot borrelia and any co infections? Do you think all co infections are necessary? My dad is paying forte testing but I don't want to test something for the sale of it!

I've looked at symptoms of the co inf and they seem similar to lyme so I don't know :s
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That's the problem with not using a doctor -- if you miss taking a test for something, then you don't get diagnosed.  And if you aren't diagnosed, you don't get treated.  And you are still sick, and a lot of time and money gone.

For the sake of argument, let's say there are four possible infections overall:  Lyme, bartonella, babesiosis, and ehrlichiosis (tho there may be others less common).

The symptoms overlap if you have more than one infection (which happens at least half the time), and streaks vs spots vs bumps, and muscle aches and pains vs joint pain -- it is all difficult to work out, even for the docs -- but based on their training and experience, they know which tests to order.

Without that training and experience, it is all just a big guessing game, and as you note, it gets very expensive very fast.  

Then there is treatment.  There are often different meds for these different diseases, and the order in which they are best treated is something a doc knows.

I know how expensive the tests are -- and that's why a knowledgeable doc is needed, both to keep the costs down, to shorten the time to diagnosis, to have a proper diagnosis, and to treat appropriately.

Lyme and the other tick ailments are not simple like a sore throat -- the causes are many, and the treatments various and interlocking.  That's why you need to see a Lyme specialist.  

That may sound like I am not helping you, but truly, that is the best advice, rather than 'order all the tests' or 'gee, it sounds like X disease, even tho I'm not a doc and have never met you but did see the cell photos you posted on the internet.'  Lyme testing is an art, not like a +/- pregnancy test off the shelf.

We're just patients like you, not medically trained.  We can explain our experiences in navigating the mess the medical profession has made of tickborne infections, and give suggestions on how to get diagnosed and treated, but we cannot (and should not) try to tell you what to test for or how to treat what you may or may not have.

Not trying to be harsh here, but I also wouldn't try to tell you how to rebuild the transmission on your car.  Not a mechanic; and definitely not a doctor.

Please find a knowledgeable physician!
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A good LLMD is definitely the right person to give you the best recommendations.

But, if you can't get to one in time, then here are my thoughts as a patient.

Ehrlichia/Anaplasma are unlikely. I don't even think they are in humans in England. I wouldn't pay for testing for them.

Bartonella is a possibility and can be transferred to your baby. It is a bacterial neurological infection. The preferred meds to treat it are different than for Lyme, but there are several drugs that do treat both. Doxy is one of them in the early stages.  I would get tested for it.  The test refers to b.henselae, the name of the bacteria.

Babesia is another possibility. It is also transmitable from mother to child in the womb. It is a parasite that is a relative of malaria, and is treated with specific antiparasitic meds. Sometimes symptoms show up after a patient is well into Lyme treatment. I would get tested for it.

Both Bart and Babs can be false negative in blood tests. A negative is very encouraging. A positive is definitive and indicates treatment.

I don't want to add any more fear to your already worried psyche, but if you and/or your baby test negative for these diseases, just write the names of these two diseases down and put it away somewhere. If you or your baby get inexplicably sick with fevers and other unexplained symptoms in the months after birth, insist on evaluation and testing for both Bart and Babs before being dismissed as having a virus.  If you turn up with either one, then take your baby to the LLMD for evaluation as well.

You really didn't have Lyme that long, so you have reason to be optimistic!  

When is your due date? It sounds like you are a good planner and you're just about ready. :). I hope your labor is short and simple!
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Thanks a lot for your help! All of you I appreciate every comment!

That's Rico I will test for those two then definitely! Thank you.... I did think bartonella could be a possibility but I don't know why I say that.

I have has lyme 5months before I started taking the amoxicillin..  So hopefully I won't have too mug of a battle ... Maybe ... Although I don't want to be told by any doc it will be cured in three months if realistically it won't! I was wondering how long treatment would last for the baby if e did have it ? How would anyone know when he is symptom free ? Hmmm I don't know !!

I am due November 24th but am going to be induced at 39 weeks ! I can't wait to have him here in my arms so that I can stop worrying about all the worse stories ive read and focus on test results and then treatment or not ! Grr! I'm just so scared about it all .. I read a comment today that read 'all the deformed, disabled or dead babies come from women who caught lyme early and didnt treat it right' ..... A part of my heart sank .. I shouldn't read them but there are a few who believe that my scenario brings the worst outcomes and I can't get that out of my head :( but I need to be strong!

X
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You say, "I need to be strong!" You ARE strong already!  It takes strength and courage to contemplate what could be problems and to make a plan to prepare for and deal with adverse circumstances.  That means you are a good mother already.

You and your partner be sure to take good care of each other -- it sounds like you are already.

Take care -- we are all thinking of you and your growing family --
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HI,
As far as testing goes, you basically need to test for infections that can be passed through the plaecnta. As far as I know, this is lyme and bartonella  but I am pretty sure nothing else.
Email Infectolab and ask them, I am sure they will know. They don't like making people pay for tests they don't need, they have always tried to be as helpful as possibl to me.
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Thank you . Apparently babesia is transferred too :( I have a feeling I have lyme bartonella and babesia which makes matters worse !  I don't care about me I just care for the baby! As if lyme wasn't enough. Do the others cross as easily / as much as lyme? More to think about.

The German lab are very helpful.. Are there testing accurate? X
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Just read a story on 'roadback ' forum about a woman in USA delivered a baby who does 5 hours after birth and had many problems due to a first trimester infection .. :( she had te baby tested and it had spirochetes in its tissues .

Err I can't stand this!
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That is a sad story -- perhaps you've collected enough data now to have a game plan for yourself and your baby, and it's time to give it a rest.  There are always awful stories out there to scare me enough to not want to get out of bed in the morning.  For a long time after 9/11, I would turn on the news before even getting out of bed in the morning, just in case something terrible had happened again.  After a while, I calmed down and didn't feel the need to do that anymore.  Maybe you're at the point where continuing to read sad stories isn't educating you, it's instead scaring you without producing any positive result or action.  It's time to think positive thoughts ... your baby is getting a dose of stress hormones from you every time you react to those awful tales.  So I'd give it a rest, and coast into delivery from here.  You've done your research, made a game plan, and now it's time to focus on good thoughts for the future.  You can do it.
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There was a paper published earlier this year where they proved a case of Babesia transmission through the placenta from mother to child.  Gary Wormser is the last name on the list of authors. Don't know how he got on it. He's the head of the IDSA Lyme Committee.)  It happened 10 YEARS ago, and they just published it. (Would have been nice if they'd been warning people and their doctors for the last 10 years instead of sitting on the news!)

It doesn't automatically transfer. If it did, there would be many stories about it.

My mother was pregnant with my sister when she was in nursing school and took a class on congenital birth defects. She learned about the most common horror stories of things that go wrong .  Of course this made her a basket case about her own baby.

My sister was born completely healthy and normal.  By the time she got to me 4 years later, she wasn't panicky anymore. She was even exposed to Rubella, and her OB offered her an abortion so she could avoid a deformed child.  Thankfully, my mom refused.  (I was born big and healthy, too.)  So even though there was an actual chance of problems, she concluded the risk was low and it wasn't worth worrying about.  

Anyway, I tell you this to encourage you to stop reading the scary stories!  There are scary stories about everything in life.  I think the hormones make a woman more emotional as well as protective of her baby. All normal.

I suspect you're in the "nesting" stage shortly before delivery. Focus on that instead.  Keep yourself busy and you'll have your baby in no time.  :)
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Thanks for your encouraging words!

I think it's time I lay the Internet to rest until after baby arrives! I just want to say a big thank you to all ... I mean that sincerely..... Without you all I don't think I would have any hope whatso ever and I will always always remember the help you have offered here!

I promise to inform all of baby's arrival and hopefully a picture too.... Due date is November 24th but I get induction date next mon which will prob be 39 weeks.

Thanks again to u all ... I hope to speak to u all soon with some good news xxxx
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Excellent!  We look forward to your good news!
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Hi everyone just to let you know I delivered a beautiful baby boy in the early hours of Saturday morning weighing a very hefty 9 pounds 2 . So far he seems a picture of health and I plan on enjoying him and trying to chill until cord and placenta results are in. Thanks again for all your help during a very difficult time as you all know half of my battle was gettin him here as I was obsessed that he was not going to make it .
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Congratulations to you and your entire family!  

What wonderful news -- fingers crossed here and sending you all good wishes.  Keep us posted on those test results --

Blessings for your little one -- !
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Congrats to you!  
Prayers and blessing to all of you.
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Congratulations!
That is wonderful news adn I hope the test of the cord blood will turn out to be good news too!
Lots of love to you and your son!
xxx
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Hi my name is Barbara. i had my baby on Dec.15 of 2012. The cord blood was taken to check for Lyme. I was waiting for the blood test results for one month. Finally, I had enough and I called the office for the fifth time about those results. They said that they called the Lab and the order was placed but specimen never received. I can't understand how this was missed. What happened to the cord blood? I am very disappointed. I don't know what to think anymore!. I was on Amoxy during the pregnancy but still worry about these results. Any comment on that? Is there anybody who received treatment for Lyme and gave Lyme to the baby?

Thank you,

Barb.
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Welcome, and congratulations on your new one's arrival!

You could call your OB's office and ask whose responsibility it is to collect and send out the cord blood, whether the hospital staff or whoever, and see what they say, and then follow up with that person/department.  Could it have been submitted under a different name (if you and your baby don't have the same last name, for example)?

Others here can give you more ideas about what to do now about testing your baby and so on --

Congratulations again!  Babies are wonderful news always.  :)
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