Aa
Another bite - another round?
I tested positive in '94 (three weeks of antibiotics), had a recurrence in '95 (three months on antibiotics+uric acid blocker) and have been lyme-free ever since. Despite all precautions, was bitten by another tick last week and now have a gorgeous bull's eye on my leg. Without testing, my doctor prescribed amoxicyllin for three weeks, but I am wondering - shouldn't I be immune by now? I would love to hear from people with personal experience in this respect.
I just responded to your question up above in another post, I think, about testing.
Your MD may or may not be able to interpret the CD57 test. It's called the 'Stricker CD57 test' because it was suggested by former ILADS chair Raphael Stricker MD, which means the test may not be given much credit as anything important by a nonLLMD.
I hear you about seeing a rheumatologist. They don't have a good reputation as being understanding and aware of Lyme, unfortunately.
Your current MD sounds like s/he could be educated, but my suggestion would be to find an LLMD at least for diagnosis of Lyme and/or coinfections, and to establish a treatment program if you are found to have one or more of the diseases. Then your regular MD could, if s/he is willing to learn, oversee the treatment recommended by the LLMD. Sometimes LLMDs are so busy that they don't want to be your primary care MD, and want you to have a regular MD also. I found it hard to find a regular MD who would treat me for anything nonLyme, because MDs who don't 'believe' in Lyme often don't want anything to do with a patient being treated for it as recommended by an LLMD. Catch 22.
And remember, the tests for Lyme have to be interpreted in view of your history and symptoms, and a nonLLMD may not be able to do a very good job of that, simply because they are not trained or aware of how to interpret history and symptoms. Your nonLLMD sounds sympathetic, which is a very good thing, but s/he may still be limited in understanding and acceptance of Lyme diagnosis and treatment. There is no YES/NO test for Lyme -- it takes experience and and understanding of Lyme and the imperfect tests to arrive at a probable diagnosis and to also be alert for coinfections.
So back to my thought of you seeing a Lyme MD for diagnosis and a treatment plan, to then be overseen by your regular MD.
It is just a suggestion, tho, and everyone's situation and needs are different. Good for you for pursuing and protecting your health -- I know how hard that is to do when you're not feeling well. Take care, and let us know how you do, okay? Best wishes to you --
Your MD may or may not be able to interpret the CD57 test. It's called the 'Stricker CD57 test' because it was suggested by former ILADS chair Raphael Stricker MD, which means the test may not be given much credit as anything important by a nonLLMD.
I hear you about seeing a rheumatologist. They don't have a good reputation as being understanding and aware of Lyme, unfortunately.
Your current MD sounds like s/he could be educated, but my suggestion would be to find an LLMD at least for diagnosis of Lyme and/or coinfections, and to establish a treatment program if you are found to have one or more of the diseases. Then your regular MD could, if s/he is willing to learn, oversee the treatment recommended by the LLMD. Sometimes LLMDs are so busy that they don't want to be your primary care MD, and want you to have a regular MD also. I found it hard to find a regular MD who would treat me for anything nonLyme, because MDs who don't 'believe' in Lyme often don't want anything to do with a patient being treated for it as recommended by an LLMD. Catch 22.
And remember, the tests for Lyme have to be interpreted in view of your history and symptoms, and a nonLLMD may not be able to do a very good job of that, simply because they are not trained or aware of how to interpret history and symptoms. Your nonLLMD sounds sympathetic, which is a very good thing, but s/he may still be limited in understanding and acceptance of Lyme diagnosis and treatment. There is no YES/NO test for Lyme -- it takes experience and and understanding of Lyme and the imperfect tests to arrive at a probable diagnosis and to also be alert for coinfections.
So back to my thought of you seeing a Lyme MD for diagnosis and a treatment plan, to then be overseen by your regular MD.
It is just a suggestion, tho, and everyone's situation and needs are different. Good for you for pursuing and protecting your health -- I know how hard that is to do when you're not feeling well. Take care, and let us know how you do, okay? Best wishes to you --
Jackie, I have to admit I really learned a lot from you and this forum. I have been doing a lot of research myself and learning more everyday. I was dx'd almost three years now and agree with you about the differnt forms they can live as...very scary. I posted a question and hoping you can answer me. Have you or know of anyone that had the CD57 count test. I also was on doxy for three weeks and just feel very strongly that this is not enough time. Everytime i go to the Doc he wants to send me to the same Rhumi that i have seen a few time and does not help me at all. He need give me a script for this CD57 to have done. But one of two things will tell me from this test, either it will be real low meaning chronic lyme or very high which means my body is fighting real hard. So then how will this test help me? Please help if you can. Chatter
I'm no biologist or doctor, but it's my understanding that Lyme bacteria have some characteristics different from other bacteria that make Lyme harder to wipe out.
For one thing, Lyme bacteria reproduce very very slowly compared to other bacteria, so that a couple of weeks of antibiotics as normally given for a bacterial infection do not overlap the generations enough to reduce the bacterial load far enough that your immune system can then wipe out the rest. I don't recall the length of time of reproduction vs regular bacteria, but it's substantial. (This aspect is not unknown in other bacteria, for example, the reproductive cycle time for the bacteria that cause Hansen's Disease (aka leprosy) also reproduce extremely slowly.)
For another thing, Lyme bacteria have the ability to 'encyst', or encase themselves in a tissue that protects them from identification by the antibiotics. Like a little bomb shelter for the bugs. The bacteria do this in an adverse environment, for example, the presence of ... antibiotics. That's why meds like Flagyl are often used, because they are so-called 'cyst-busters' that break open the cysts so that other antibiotics can kill the bacteria inside. To my knowledge, these cysts are the same concept but not to be confused with cysts that sometimes appear on the skin; these are inside the body, I believe.
And Lyme bacteria have different forms they can live as: here is where my understanding of cell biology really falls apart, but you may have heard of L-form bacteria and CWD (cell wall deficient) bacteria, and I have read that Lyme can go from one form to another, which makes it difficult for medication to identify and kill them.
In other words, Lyme is different from other bacteria in ways science is just beginning to appreciate fully.
On the other point you raise, about immunity, I don't know anything about the science on this point, but there are other diseases which do not confer immunity after an initial infection. Malaria is one, which may be because it lives inside red blood cells where the immune system does not detect it and cannot act against it.
Someone here with more medical/scientific knowledge than I have, please feel free to contradict me --
As to whether 3 weeks of abx will cure you, I dont' know, but if it's caught early enough, maybe--? But you're up against that long reproductive cycle mentioned above, so maybe not.
For one thing, Lyme bacteria reproduce very very slowly compared to other bacteria, so that a couple of weeks of antibiotics as normally given for a bacterial infection do not overlap the generations enough to reduce the bacterial load far enough that your immune system can then wipe out the rest. I don't recall the length of time of reproduction vs regular bacteria, but it's substantial. (This aspect is not unknown in other bacteria, for example, the reproductive cycle time for the bacteria that cause Hansen's Disease (aka leprosy) also reproduce extremely slowly.)
For another thing, Lyme bacteria have the ability to 'encyst', or encase themselves in a tissue that protects them from identification by the antibiotics. Like a little bomb shelter for the bugs. The bacteria do this in an adverse environment, for example, the presence of ... antibiotics. That's why meds like Flagyl are often used, because they are so-called 'cyst-busters' that break open the cysts so that other antibiotics can kill the bacteria inside. To my knowledge, these cysts are the same concept but not to be confused with cysts that sometimes appear on the skin; these are inside the body, I believe.
And Lyme bacteria have different forms they can live as: here is where my understanding of cell biology really falls apart, but you may have heard of L-form bacteria and CWD (cell wall deficient) bacteria, and I have read that Lyme can go from one form to another, which makes it difficult for medication to identify and kill them.
In other words, Lyme is different from other bacteria in ways science is just beginning to appreciate fully.
On the other point you raise, about immunity, I don't know anything about the science on this point, but there are other diseases which do not confer immunity after an initial infection. Malaria is one, which may be because it lives inside red blood cells where the immune system does not detect it and cannot act against it.
Someone here with more medical/scientific knowledge than I have, please feel free to contradict me --
As to whether 3 weeks of abx will cure you, I dont' know, but if it's caught early enough, maybe--? But you're up against that long reproductive cycle mentioned above, so maybe not.
And another point: I know an immunization shot for Lyme was introduced (and dropped) several years ago. But the premise for that is that Lyme antibodies are supposed to guard one against a new infection. I know I have antibodies - are those insufficient after 15 years then?
I sort of knew it, but Isn't that a bummer?! Yeah, I am taking antibiotics again, but am doubtful that three weeks will do it on the third run :(
Lyme is a bacterial infection, and the body doesn't always 'remember' an old bacterial infection and be ready to swat it down. Think strep throat -- you can get that again too, tho someone here who is medically trained can probably think of a better example.
So to my understanding, yes, you can get Lyme again.
It's also possible that your previous Lyme infection just went quiet and is coming back, but a new bite could certainly do it.
So to my understanding, yes, you can get Lyme again.
It's also possible that your previous Lyme infection just went quiet and is coming back, but a new bite could certainly do it.
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