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Bb spirochetes in body fluids

If Bb spirochetes can be detected in body fluids (breast milk, semen, vaginal secretions and umbilical cord blood) why are these types of tests not done as a way of testing for Lyme Disease, given current testing methods have failure rates. Any thoughts?
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Avatar universal
Thanks Jackie, I did see them earlier this week and posted to FB and forgot to do so here! I was reading about the GRADE system.
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Avatar universal
You might mention to your friendly GP the ILADS website and the treatment guidelines there.  I just went looking for them, and it turns out they were just updated A WEEK AGO!! (having been a few years old).

I'm going to post a separate message here so everyone will see it, but do tell your GP about it and read it yourself if you are interested.

The post on the ILADS website is called:  "New Standard of Care Guidelines for Treating Lyme and Other Tick-borne Illnesses Released by International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society (ILADS)".
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Avatar universal
Thanks Jackie. My GP didn't know anything about Igenex but agreed to sign the lab req. for it. He then didn't know how to read it and assumed it was negative, not realizing that some of the bands were quite significant. I know it was the WB test, and it must be be the antibody as it states on it, "Some viral antibodies cross-react with bands 31 &41KDA."
In ON Candada we don't have PAs and my GP has been pretty receptive about getting the positive results from the LLMD in NY state and the local LLND that I am now using at present. But he admits that he knows nothing about Chronic Lyme Disease and I've been assisting him in awareness.
Enjoy your day!
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Avatar universal
Check the test results from IGeneX and see what the test was -- IGeneX may have run an antibody test at your doc's request.  If you can't tell from the test results what was done, call IGeneX and ask.  If you ask a generic question such as 'I have my test results here, but I can't tell if they were a Western blot/ELISA test or a DNA test', they might tell you.  They have to be careful not to give medical advice, tho, and they will draw the line where they think appropriate.  

If IGeneX won't tell you and sends you back to your doc, then you'll have to deal with your doc (or the doc's nurse or PA -- physician's assistant) for an explanation.  Some docs are better at communicating this stuff than others, but my view is:  it's my blood, my test, and my ailment, so talk to me.

I just searched online for -- igenex results -- and got a lot of interesting links that might help you out.

You ask:  "the tests that find Bb in other bodily fluids are also antibody tests and not DNA testing is what you're saying?"  If you mean the standard Western blot/ELISA tests, they are, to my untrained understanding, antibody tests.  To my knowledge, only IGeneX does DNA testing for Lyme.

The reason most docs don't use IGeneX is because (so I read) nonLLMDs believe the antibody tests are sufficient, but that doesn't take into account the ability of Lyme to suppress the immune system and thus not show the antibodies that would otherwise be present.  

(My LLMD tested me both at IGeneX and with the Western blot/ELISA tests [to get as much data as possible, I suppose], and he was surprised that my Wblot/ELISA tests came back strongly positive (in addition to being positive on the IGeneX test) -- he said it meant my immune system was strong and still up and fighting, but that's not true of a lot of people with Lyme, so I read.)

Ask your doc all these questions -- it's a pity more docs don't have the time and inclination to explain what's going on, but I suppose there are many patients who aren't able or aren't interested in the data.  It's like taking my car to the mechanic, tho -- I like more explanation that a lot of people want, and once the mechanic understands that, I get more data.
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Avatar universal
Thanks Jackie and Mojogal.
So let me see if I have this correctly....
I do realize that the Elisa/Western blot are testing antibodies. I was under the impression that the Igenex testing, which I had done was also testing for antibodies, but that the testing was just more sensitive and selective. So that's interesting (and great) to hear that Igenex actually detects DNA not just the antibodies.
So, the tests that find Bb in other bodily fluids are also antibody tests and not DNA testing is what you're saying?
Thanks as always for your help ladies!
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1763947 tn?1334055319
Perfect as always!
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Avatar universal
The usually deployed Western blot and ELISA tests look not for the Lyme bacteria themselves, but for the body's immune system reaction to the presence of the Lyme.  

Two problems with that:  the Lyme bacteria can and do suppress the immune system, so the test won't show up as having an infection; and Lyme bacteria migrate away from the blood stream and into cartilage and other places of low blood flow,  where the immune system can't see the bacteria, so the immune system fails to react.  Therefore the Wblot/ELISA tests then fail to register a positive, because they don't detect anything.

The IGeneX test is a whole different approach:  instead of relying on the body's immune system response to signal an infection, the IgeneX test looks for bits of the Lyme bacteria's DNA floating around in your blood.  A direct test.

So in answer to your question, I think the problem with the tests is the way they are structured (immune reaction vs direct evidence of Lyme DNA), and not on which body fluids the test relies on.

Somebody chime in if I didn't say that right.
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