How to deal with Flagyl side effects?

Friends,

Any advice on how to deal with the trashing Flagyl can do on your gut?

I have Lyme and babesiosis.

Treatment to date:

-- azithromycin (Zithromax) and atovaquone (Mepron) for 4 months

-- clindamycin (Biaxin) and cefdinir (Omnicef) for 5 months -- stopped due to edema

-- metronidazole (Flagyl) and azithromycin (Zithromax) for 4 months + 1 week --  stopped (dr's orders) due to severe intestinal inflammation from Flagyl

Now 3 days after stopping the meds, I can feel the disease symptoms creeping slowly back, and want to figure out (before seeing my dr again) what tricks there are to tolerate these meds again so I can suggest to him that we try one more time.  I was feeling SO good -- virtually normal again.

==>Any ideas?  I had learned to always take probiotics 1 to 2 hours before the antibiotics, and to take the meds with a good 8+ oz of water and something fatty (cream cheese, an egg, ice cream).  I was doing really well until the whole inflammation thing happened.

Help!  Thank you all for being there.

[EricaO]

Were you pulsing on the flagyl?

I was on 1/2 dose for one week and then full dose for 2 weeks and now I am off for 2 weeks. I was told that if I feel like **** for the two weeks that I am off Flagyl that it means the treatment is working.

His explanation, the 2 weeks of flagyl destroy the Cystic Form of the spirochette but the other antibiotic in my case Doxy destroys the actual spirochette. So the two weeks that I have been off of Flagyl have really been kind of miserable, I have the severe joint pain, chest pain and everything. Classic Symptoms of Herxing!

As far as probiotics...Are you taking Acidolphilis? I take 10billion units a day(4 pills) 2 at noon and 2 at 6pm. I take the ones that have to be kept in the fridge, they are supposed to be more potent.

Also, when I take the Flagyl I eat wheat crackers(they are saltine crackers but wheat instead of the regular saltine) with it, they have them at Kroger, I don't know if you guys have Krogers where you are but the crackers helped me a TON!

Also, are you taking both of your abx at once(same time)? The flagyl and the Zithromax? You might try taking them at different times, my dr. said if my nausea didnt subside we were going to have to take one antibiotic at one time and then the other later in the day.

[JackieCalifornia]

Thanks for your comments.  My dr doesn't support pulsing ... says it gives the bugs a chance to become resistant, but I see your point about busting open a cyst and letting the other abx kill the bugs.  I'll try the idea again with the dr.  And will also ask him about IV Flagyl.

I don't get nauseous from the drugs, so that's not a problem.  I take both Florastor (a 'good' yeast) and refrigerated acidophilus, so that's covered.  I am careful to take the acidophilus at least 1 hour before taking the meds, to avoid interference between the acidophilus and the meds.

It's not just stomach upset; I was getting an inflamed colon after so long on the drugs.  Not nice.

I was also taking the meds with yogurt or an egg or cream cheese/bread, and that seemed to keep stomach upset down.  Burping, yes; upset, no.

I'm really bummed right now because my symptoms are coming back so quickly -- I had been feeling fabulous, and now it's back to tired, chilled, queasy, parched, confused, aching, anxious and depressed.  Sounds like the Eight Evil Dwarves.

I'm thinking about trying herbals like artemesia ... but nervous about it and will have to do some research ... which I really don't feel like doing right about now.  Sigh.

Thanks again for your message.  You hang in there, too.

[wonko]

I'm not on Flagyl, I think the only medication in common I have with you is the azithromycin, which I've been on for about 2 months now.

I also take an herbal anti-bacterial supplement called Samento (or cat's claw).  My LLMD has me taking it along with antibiotics, but I can't say for certain that it wouldn't interact with any of your treatments.

I went into my Lyme treatment very skeptical of herbals, but during the 2 weeks I was on Samento before starting antibiotics I did note a mild herx followed by some improvement.  Of course, everyone is different and responds differently, but if you are unable to stay on your regimen, it may be worth a try or at least worth asking your doctor about.  It is a liquid that you put in water and start small (like 1 drop a day) and work up to 15 drops twice a day.

I've never heard of artemesia, if you have a chance could you say more about it?

I hope you find a way to stop (or at least battle) The Eight Evil Dwarves.

[JackieCalifornia]

Thanks for the advice...after a rough few days there, I am doing a bunch better today, but a set back does focus the mind on these issues.

About artemesia, I have a book called 'Healing Lyme' by Harold Buhner.  Subtitle is 'Natural Healing and Prevention of Lyme Borreliosis and Its Coinfections', by Raven Press.  I got it off Amazon new for $20.  (I'm no hippy dippy mystical type, but I do keep an open mind when it comes to medicines being both little pills from the pharmacy and weedy things like Granny used to pick:  it's all chemicals, just find the right ones.  So label me an open-minded skeptic.)

I am impressed with this book because of the thoughtful and thorough discussion *explains* how the various herbs work, how to take them, what for, etc., giving *context* for each one.  Most of the other herbal books seem to list what to take but without any coherent explanation, and it sounds like gossip.

In this book, however, for example, in the section on Babesia, there is a brief description of the disease, then moves to three possible herbs, the first being artemisia.  Under each of the herbs, the subtopics are:  common names [e.g., artemisinin is also called sweet annie], plant family, habitat [where it grows], collection [when to pick it], cultivation [how to grow it], medicinal actions of artemisinin, functions in Lyme disease, differences between the plant (artemisia) and the active ingredient (artemisinin previously called arteannuin), ayurvedic aspects, traditional Chinese medicine aspects, Western botanic aspects, scientific [chemical] aspects, dosage for Lyme (since there is overlap), side effects, and contraindications.

Whew.  And that's just a few pages of the 200 page book.  The first half discusses Lyme generally in a very thoughtful fashion.  The author is described as 'a master herbalist, psychotherapist, and expert on indigenous and contemplative spiritual traditions.'  Just the kind of person I would usually run away from, but the book is quite something.

To your specific question, about artemisia, it is, according to Buhner's book, in the aster family, and its medicinal actions are antimalarial, antiparasitic, antiviral, antifungal and other.  I have read elsewhere that one configuration of the active ingredient has been patented, and I'm not clear exactly how it all fits together, but that is what I'm about to start figuring out.  

In the book's introduction, Buhner says 'six points stand out' to him after studying the available material on Lyme:  (1)there is a lot of hysteria about Lyme, everybody is pretty scared, and most don't know what to do, including the drs; (2) there are a lot more sick people that stats indicate; (3) antibiotics don't work as well as advertised; (4) clear, unemotional information is hard to get; (5) tests aren't reliable; and (6) "Something very strange is going on in the field of Lyme disease and its treatment."  Amen, brother.

So I've done antibiotics and will continue to pursue that approach, but am also ready to go find out about herbal remedies too, and use both approaches with my doctor's knowledge (to avoid drug conflicts).  Sorry for the long post, but this is something I've been thinking about for a long time.