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Avatar universal

I may have Lyme? Last resort

Hello thanks to all who reply. I am 32 years old and I am an active hunter. Lil over 1 year ago I had a pain in my testicles for 3 weeks. I went to a walk in clinic and was put on Flagyl. 7 days in I felt like I got punched in the chest and almost blacked out. Ever since I have experienced off balance, tightness in neck and throat, jaw sagging and discomfort, chest pains and tightness, numbness in abdominal area reaching all the way to my chest and neck, leg and arm weakness, tingling in the pace and in front and behind ears. I have had every test in the book done. Only thing came back was reactive lymph nodes all through out my neck. I have been tested for lyme twice. First said <=0.90 negative a year ago. 2 months ago I had another done and only had 1 reactive. The 23 KD (igg) positive. 1 out of 10. They say it's nothing. All I am told is that I am having constant anxiety. I have been on 2 different antidepressants and they did nothing. My symptoms occur everyday all day but progressively get worse. I am prescribed xanax but it only mildly calms the symptoms down. I know my body and feels like I am fighting something. My symptoms get worse after exertion. I have been dealing with this for over a year now. I am at the point where I can barely drive much less go to work... Any suggestions would greatly b appreciated. Only thing I can come up with is Lyme. I can't think of anything else it may b
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Avatar universal
... and legalgirl:

Just a note to ask that you share doc's names via the 'private message' (PM) function on this website.  (If you are not familiar with the PM system, hover your mouse over the name of the person you want to send a private message to, and a little box will open up.  

Then click on 'Send Message', and another box will open up where you can type your message.  

Click 'send' (or whatever word it uses) when you're done, and the message will be relayed from the sender to the receiver, all without leaving the MedHelp system or identifying our real names or locations.  

It lets us all keep our privacy while helping share important information.  (It took me a while to figure out how it worked -- can you tell? -- !)
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Avatar universal
Danny:  I live in Mobile and need to see a dr. as well for this...do you mind sharing who it is?  I found one online that I'm making an apt with and hope it's the same one.
Thanks,
Beth
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Avatar universal
Consider shopping around Lyme patient groups etc. to see if you can find another doc for a second look.  Take all your test results so far to the new doc, and see what reaction you get.  

If you don't want your current doc to get suspicious that you might be bailing, tell the doc that your Aunt Minnie who lives in Nebraska used to be a nurse and is interested in finding out more about Lyme ... or some dodge that you are comfortable with.  It could be as simple as, "I'd like copies of all the test results, since my memory is not so good."  Whatever works.  It's hard to face down a doc sometimes, esp. if you might need him/her again sometime.  It's always better to be honest, but sometimes the situation doesn't play to that, and when the doc has so much power in the situation, a little misdirection might be the prudent approach.
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Avatar universal
You are wise to stay aware that the rules of how to diagnose and treat Lyme are in flux ... someday it will be all worked out, but in the meantime, keep your antennae up.  
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Avatar universal
Hello,

I can relate very closly to your situation as mine is very simialr in symptons and interactions with Drs. I am now seeing an LLMD but I am not conviced they are on the right track either. I go back to them tomorrow and am hoping for a better understanding of where they are coming from. If you dont mind can I ask what your dr started you taking while waiting for further testing?

Thanks
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Avatar universal
Your doc does sound like a keeper.  Best wishes, and let us know how you do!
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Avatar universal
Thanks. He is testing me for other bacterias as well. The doctor that I saw was prob one of the most intelligent people I have ever spoken to! He said it may take 1-3 months before I start to feel better but he did say everyone is different so it may be shorter and may be longer. I am keeping my head up and hopes high for a speedy recovery! :)
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Avatar universal
You may snap back to your old self very quickly, but everyone is different that way -- depends on how strong and healthy you were pre-Lyme, and how many co-infections you might have, and other stuff there's no need to fret about -- but if you're not up to par again a while after treatment is done, just cycle back and see your doc again.  Not saying it will happen, but jic.  

Sometimes there are other tickborne infections that were overlooked or the tests didn't pick up, etc., and it can be hard to tell immediately after Lyme treatment if you still have a hidden bug OR if your body is just tired and thrashed from dealing with all of what you went thru -- kind of like after a bad flu bug, when you feel lousy for a little while longer after you know you're no longer infected.  

You might get lucky and snap back when the meds are done, but for me and some others I know, it just took a bit longer to be back to pre-Lyme normal.  If you have any doubts after the end of treatment, of course check in with the doc, but just wanted to frame the possibility for you.  You go!  
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Avatar universal
Thank u so much! I can't wait to see what a normal day feels like. It's been over 400 days now! I am stoked and hopefully b back to my career and hobbies :)
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Avatar universal
This is progress!  Excellent.  I like the sound of your doc -- and the right doc makes ALL the difference in dealing with Lyme.

Hurrah!  Will look forward to your updates -- take care!  Yippee!  
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Avatar universal
I finally saw the LLMD yesterday. Just from looking at my old blood work which was negative from Lyme only 23Kd (igg) positive, some CT scans, and my current symptoms where enough for him to diagnose me with Neurological Lyme Disease and started antibiotic treatment yesterday. That is my current diagnosis pending further lab work I am having done through Lab Corp. he does not want me to repeat the western blot cause the 23 KD (igg) was positive. He said no reason it already showed what he needed to see. I am thankful I found this site and thanks to all for the advice and support. I will keep updates on my status. Thank u all!!
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Avatar universal
Good, it's what I would do in your situation.  It's not bad enough being sick.

You can see why ID docs may not be helpful, given their views on Lyme.

Hang on, and you might ask to be put on the cancellation list in Mobile, so they can work you in if someone bails.  
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Avatar universal
I saw infectious Disease doctor today. That was a joke. He said I absolutely don't have Lyme. He said your test says here that u only tested 1 out of 10 that I needed at least 5 for Lyme.  He said my primary will b the one to figure out what's wrong with me. That's why I am here to see u dummy. She have up on me and just shoves xanax down my throat that hardly calms my symptoms down. I see the LLMD in Mobile AL next week on the 12 th. Hopefully he will have some answers. If not I don't know what else to do... I will post an update after my appt on the 12th
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Avatar universal
I hear you.  Here's an idea:  a week (or at least a few days) before your appointment, take out your daily notes and summarize them on a one page list of what is going on.  If you wake up with a headache most days, put down "headache on waking (most days)", then go to the next item.  You've got a couple weeks till your appointment, so start today, and by the day of your appointment, you'll have a 'cheat sheet' to refer to when you are in the doc's office.  

Don't try to do it from memory in the doc's office -- I find that many people who have strong recall of events simply don't believe that the rest of us don't necessarily work that way.  There are all kinds of reasons for it, I think, and none of them is a character flaw -- it's just a different way of thinking and remembering.

(I tend to remember things I see, not things I am told -- a visual memory -- and people who are the other way around just don't believe anyone is different.  And of course, stress makes it worse.)

You're not alone in this -- and Lyme and stress can make it worse.  It will improve with treatment, tho.  You go!
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Avatar universal
That is not a bad Idea. I have taken some notes at times but every time I leave the doctors office I say aww shoot. I forgot to tell him bout these symptoms. If I have a really bad day and if the next day is not so bad it is really hard to remember how bad that day really was. If that makes any sence at all..? Pretty much everyday is a bad day so it is really hard to remember how bad it got the day or days before. Short term memory is horrible and normally if someone is talking to me it's like I am in a tunnel and I can't even process what they said. I will have them repeat to me or just ignore what was said to me. I am really looking forward to May 12th and what the LLMD has to say. I am not gonna get my hopes up to high cause I have before when I thought I had it figured out and been disappointed many times. That 23 KD (igg) positive does give me a lil hope that I may finally be on the right track
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Avatar universal
There is a variety of symptoms in Lyme, which confuses the docs even more.  About half the time, the 'Lyme' ticks also carry other infections that they pass along.  These 'bonus' infections are totally different from Lyme and have different symptoms, different testing and usually different treatment from Lyme, but because they mix together in your ailing body, it's hard to impossible to parse them.  You can see how docs who don't understand all this cannot realize they are looking at someone with Lyme because of the extra symptoms:  docs like things clear and simple, but Lyme doesn't play that way.  

In addition, Lyme can and does afflict different people in different ways:  some of us have more joint and muscle aches and pains; others of us have 'brain fog', where you can feel like you have a hangover because the Lyme have settled in your nervous system.

Then when you mix the variability of Lyme with the perhaps half dozen other, separate diseases that the 'Lyme' ticks can carry, the diagnostic picture becomes very muddled.  No wonder the docs are confused!  But it's their job to unravel the mystery, not ignore it.

I would report every single symptom to your doc.  Don't assume *anything* is or is not Lyme, and you are the best source of data for your doc to parse the whole situation.  Sometimes memory is affected in people with Lyme (it's part of brain fog in a way), and if that is happening to you, carry around a little notebook or your cell or PDA, and every time you notice a different symptom, WRITE IT DOWN.  Then take the list to your doc at your next appointment.

Some docs may say, "Just tell me," rather than read your notes, but my Lyme doc liked my notes:  I kept them on my computer in a spreadsheet for each day, and I would type in a few notes about how I was feeling, what symptoms I was having, and so on -- otherwise, I would walk into the doc's office and not remember much of anything since my last appointment.  Lyme can definitely affect the brain that way, but it clears up after treatment.  A battle worth fighting!  
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Avatar universal
Thank u will do! I forgot with all of the symptoms I have. I also have ringing in my ears...? I am not sure. Could that b associated with Lyme as well?
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Avatar universal
Keep us posted -- we're rooting for you!
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Avatar universal
I have family in Jacksonville and tried to get in over there. They wanted to send me to their first available infectious disease doctor first cause I have more than 2 symptoms. They said it would b early July before I could get an appt over there. Alabama is about 3-30 hours closer for me. I hope he can figure me out! Thanks!!
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Avatar universal
Thank u very helpful. I can't wait to see this LLMD and hopefully get some answers! If u think of anything else anybody please don't hesitate. I am all ears and very interested in learning more about Lyme. If that is what I indeed have. I would love to help as many people as I can. I would not wish this upon my worst enemy! It has been over a year... I forgot what a normal day feels like. Thanks everyone!
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1763947 tn?1334055319
There is an LLMD in Jacsonville if that is closer for you. You mentioned swollen lymph nodes, that is a common sign of bartonella. A good LLMD usually treats co-infections by your clinical symptoms.
Good luck
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Avatar universal
Be sure to tell the doc that you are taking the Mg, in what formulation, and how often and what dose, so the doc can factor that in to your symptom presentation.  

About the infectious disease doc, he might be fine, but be aware that as a group, docs who are in the infectious disease (ID) field generally have no clue on how to deal with Lyme.  The first docs a few decades ago who identified Lyme as a new and spreading illness did the best they could at the time, and their view was that Lyme needed only a couple weeks of doxycycline, and if you still had symptoms after that, it was your over-active immune system trying to kill an infection that was already dead and gone.

What those early docs did not know was that Lyme may *seem* to be killed off in a particular patient, because the tests came back negative ... but what was really happening was the Lyme was hijacking the human immune system and blocking the creation of antibodies against Lyme.  Result:  it *looked* like the Lyme bacteria were all dead, since the immune system wasn't making any more antibodies against Lyme, and Lyme was just having a fun time without the antibody/cops to shut the party down.  

Here's the kicker:  When patients then complained that they were still ill after a couple weeks of doxycycline, the ID docs said the patients were wrong, because the tests said there were no Lyme bacteria persisting -- but those docs didn't yet know about the ability of Lyme bacteria to shut down manufacture of antibodies and to go hide inside slimy areas they create in the body, called biofilms.  And when all you are testing is whether there are antibodies present, then of course the patient would look like s/he should be well:  the Lyme was suppressing the manufacture of antibodies.

So ... the docs created a new thing to explain why patients were still ill after a couple weeks of doxy:  "post-Lyme syndrome"!  That is still defined in the (clueless) IDSA medical literature as the absence of Lyme bacteria in the patient after a little doxy, but that the patient's immune system is still in hyper-drive trying to kill the Lyme bacteria that are supposedly no longer there.  Head-fake!  And to this day, that is still the position of the IDSA, Infectious Disease Society of America, the main voluntary group for docs who treat ... yes, infectious diseases.  The IDSA sets standards for symptoms, testing, and treatment to identify an infectious disease and pronounce the correct treatment.

In the case of Lyme, the IDSA standard still is that a couple weeks of doxycycline and you're good to go -- any pesky aches and pain you have after a brief course of doxy is just your immune over-reacting to the now-dead Lyme bacteria.  

And who belongs to the IDSA?  Infectious disease docs.  

So ... none of my business, but I think I would either see both docs you propose and then decide who has the best plan and the best grip on reality, OR if going to only one of the two docs, I would see the Alabama doc, NOT the infectious disease doc.  The ID docs as a group just didn't get the memo about Lyme.  

Okay, I'm toast at this point, nearly 1 am, so if this doesn't make sense, post back and I'll try to clarify.  Best wishes!  Keep us posted.  
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Avatar universal
Thank u so much! I am here to listen and to learn and just from hearing what u had to say helps a lot Already! I live in Pensacola Fl. I had a tick attaches to me in Jacksonville Fl bout 6 years ago. I also hunt for 1 week in Tennessee every year. I spend most of my time in the woods just north of Pensacola. I have an appointment with a local infectious disease doctor on May 6th that is supposed to know about lyme... I also have an appt with a LLMD bout an hour West of me in Alabama. I don't know if I can say the city that he is in on here or not..? I see him on May 12th and have heard from at least a dozen people that I know and friends of friends that this guy was a life saver and healed them from Lyme. I hope I am on the right track and hope to get some answers soon! It's been a tough road. Thanks for the advice. I look forward to learning more so feel free to chat away all u want. I am gonna try the MG can't hurt and may help :)
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Avatar universal
Welcome to MedHelp Lyme.  You don't say what state/area you are located in, and in some states it's harder than others to find a Lyme specialist for a work up.  If you give us a general idea of where you're located and how far you can travel, we might have some suggestions for you ... Part of the Lyme problem we all encounter is that some states have rather restrictive state medical boards who are tough on docs who want to deal more aggressively in treating Lyme, so it does matter where you are.

It's entirely possible that you have been bitten by a bug carrying Lyme more than once ... I never saw a tick or rash on me, but I had a definite case of Lyme ... I just felt really lousy for a long time.  That you have seen insects or their bites on you is helpful to a doc, but it's not *required* for a  diagnosis:  that's what a doc does after s/he takes your history of symptoms and then runs some tests.  

The standard tests you probably had (ELISA and Western blot) are fairly accurate when they give a positive result ('positive' meaning that you have Lyme), but they can too easily give a negative result (meaning that you don't have Lyme), even when you DO have Lyme.  Why?  Because Lyme bacteria can and do suppress your immune system, and the ELISA and Western blot tests measure only how strongly your immune system is acting against an infection.  Kind of backwards, eh.  (There are other reasons these tests are flawed, but it's late and I won't go into it all now.  Check back tomorrow, will try to post more then.)

Lyme specialists use a different test altogether (often in addition to the ELISA and Western blot tests), so finding a doc who understands all this is important to getting an accurate diagnosis and then treatment.

The anxiety you are feeling may be due to Lyme ... it's a fairly common symptom.  If it's Lyme, the anxiety will go away when you are properly diagnosed and treated.  The trick is finding a doc who understands.  We do not post names of Lyme docs here in public, since some state and medical boards are eager to crack down on docs who treat Lyme aggressively, but tomorrow check back here and we'll have more data for you and some pointers on how to find a Lyme specialist who knows what he/she is doing.  

You say:   "2 months ago I had another [test] done and only had 1 reactive. The 23 KD (igg) positive. 1 out of 10. They say it's nothing."  This is totally illogical on the doc's part:  band 23 is specific to Lyme, meaning NO OTHER bacteria but Lyme will cause a positive on the test's band 23.  This stuff about that band being only 1 out of 10 is silly, when band 23 is known to be a strong Lyme indicator.  A real Lyme doc would know this, and many other useful things.  Tomorrow, will post more on finding a good Lyme doc.

You also say:  "All I am told is that I am having constant anxiety. I have been on 2 different antidepressants and they did nothing."  Lyme messes with the whole endocrine system (meaning hormones), which in turn means emotions, and that means:  *anxiety.*  Not everyone gets the Lyme jitters, but if you've got them, it's a strong sign.  Lyme bacteria use up magnesium (Mg) in your system, so you could try taking Mg capsules from the vitamin/health food store and see if it helps.  Read the label, and it should have a formulation of Mg that ends in "-ate":  Mg malate, orotate, citrate, or aspartate, for example.  I have read that Mg tablets that have other stuff in them (like calcium) are not as good, so I would try to get just the Mg in the supplements.  I'm not a doc or medically trained, so this is not medical advice, but just passing along what I have read and what I have taken myself.  And I still take Mg every day ... and I haven't had Lyme for several years now.

You say, "My symptoms occur everyday all day but progressively get worse. I am prescribed xanax but it only mildly calms the symptoms down."  Perhaps that is because the xanax is not replacing what your body is missing (magnesium) .... The Mg worked for me -- I am generally *very* sensitive to meds and supplements of all kinds, and I tolerate the Mg very well.

Taking Mg or other supplements will not cure Lyme, if that's what you have, but it's a stop gap for now till you get in to see a good Lyme doc.  One way to find a Lyme doc is to go online to ILADS  [dot]  org, and there is a physician referral function there.  There is no test to be an ILADS member (it's a voluntary organization for docs who are interested in the field of Lyme), so if you get someone who doesn't seem like a good fit, get another name.  

And ALWAYS get full copies (not just summary pages) of all test results from a doc.  Lyme is still being figured out, and what one doc misses, another may not.  

Let us know how we can help ... remember not to post doctors' names in public here, but they can be mentioned in private messages.  
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