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Long Term Antibiotics

I am currently taking Mepron, Artemisinin, and 400mg of Doxycycline for Babesia and Anaplasma.  I have been on the doxy for 4 months, the mepron and art for 2.5 months.  My LLMD wants me on the meds for at least a total of 6 months.  

I am worried about the effects that these meds are having on my body.  I know and trust that they are doing their jobs by killing these damn bugs, but I can't help but wonder about what side effects they are having on my otherwise healthy body. Especially my digestive system.  I take probiotics and essential oils, but I still have severe bloating.  

I guess my question is, has anyone been on abx longer than 6 months and what did you do to thwart the potential damaging side effects?
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Avatar universal
I wouldn't be afraid of antibiotics:  they are effective against the infection(s), and in my book that's all that counts.  Some here use herbs to good effect, and there are other approaches, but I would not reject antibiotics out of hand.

Look at it this way:  Lyme is in the same bacterial group as syphilis, and I don't know of anyone who would treat syphilis with herbs.  The downside is potentially huge.  Read up on syphilitic dementia if you're interested.
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Avatar universal
Holy Crap that's a lot of info.  I am taking multiple refrigerated probiotics on an empty stomach before I go to bed so that they have time to get into my system and work before I take my next abx when I wake up.  My diet is Gluten Free, Dairy and Sugar to be avoided as best as possible.  My boyfriend and I cook everyday with healthy oils such as Coconut and Olive. I detox by taking hot epsom salt baths or going to an infrared sauna.  I also take and use essential oils which have helped my gut in a fabulous way.  I know that taking abx isn't great, especially since is makes my Birth Control not work;) I appreciate everyone's input.  I am trying to the very best by my body, but still kill these damn parasites.  
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Avatar universal
Niko,

Thank you for the explanation and the data -- quite interesting.  I think medical education, however modern it may be, tends to miss these aspects too often, so being aware of alarm signals coming from our poor beleaguered bodies is important.  J.
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1530171 tn?1448129593

Au contraire, my dear Jackie, the doctor IS the issue, if s/he is NOT on the same page as the patient- which unfortunately is the case for most- and the patient then must take greater charge of his/her own health matters.

It takes a tremendous amount of support, openness, education, persistance, proactivity, thinking outside the "medical" box and so on to improve one's chances for recovery.

Yes of course! More specifics :

1.Anti-fungal, anti-yeast anti-candida protocol.
fungal/yeast overgrowth/candida,arising from compromized gut flora due to long-term antibiotic treatments,high intake of carbs , stress etc.)
Fungal/yeast organelles feed off carbohydrates.
Avoidance of carbs in all forms other than low carb vegetables is highly recommended in order to starve the fungi.

My recommendation would be to also get a very high quality probiotic supplement-live (needs refrigeration) multi-strain with a high count in the 10s of billions and dairy free if possible.
Also equally important is to take some quality prebiotics.
My ultimate recommendation is to also supplement with extra virgin coconut oil which is more effective than any prescribed anti-fungal medications in erradicating Candida Albicans AND has a much wide spectrum of action against most other species of candida as well.

I have had much experience with this over the years and through my wife who was a Clinical Dietician and in charge of  the Dietitics dept. in our local hospital. 4-6 tablespoons daily in cooking or over vegetables (must be over 22 C to liquify) is therapeutic dosing, but it's best to start with 2T daily and gradually increase, as it is ...medicine!
It is anti-fungal,anti-microbial, anti-parasitic, anti-viral,anti-protozoan and anti-inflammatory, so starting slow will help you avoid  Jarisch-Herxheimer reactions.
In "Oil Pulling", you may use 1 teaspoon of coconut oil to swish vigorously for 15-20' 1st thing in the morning and then spit it out and rinse real well.
This will eliminate billions of pathogens and toxins from your entire oral cavity which serves as a perfect habitat for these unwanted offenders.
You will also reduce drastically the number of infectious agents entering your body (the mouth is the number one entry point for infectious agents as you well know).
Please do not overlook this, as I think it offers great therapeutic and preventive health benefits, at a low cost, high effectiveness and NO side effects what-so-ever!

2.Under Methylation suggested approach:
a.  Doing a trial of B6 in Pyridoxal-5-phosphate form, B12 in methylocobalamin form and folate in methylfolate form  (5-methyltetrahydrofolate).  Note: They must be in the exact forms as shown!  
The second option is to do a trial of SAMe(S-Adenosyl methionine) or TMG (tri-methyl-glycine).
b. .The second option is to do a trial of SAMe(S-Adenosyl methionine) or TMG (tri-methyl-glycine).
If you feel much better after 2 months by exercising option #1 or #2 , this likely verifies under-methylation.
One would likely have high homocysteine levels as well, which would be also b/c of the lack of methylation.
c.The third option is do a CSF Homocysteine* test which if under-methylated, would indicate low levels  of the (methylated) neurological forms of B12 and folate, as per my earlier reference, even if MMA testing shows adequate or even high levels of B12 cobalamin and folate.
d.The fourth option is to do genetic testing (if there's a genetic mutation) which is a bit more complicated,however, whoever needs information on this, I'll be glad to post it.
Genes cannot be changed but some of their expressions and mutations can be influenced (epigenetic & genetic mutation bypassing).

There are always many things that can be done beyond the LLMDs, suggested regimens.
Lyme's patients who also suffer from unresolved & unexplained neurological symptoms and/or a lot of annoying and recurring allergies, to my opinion, should seriously consider the aforementioned information.

This information, however, should be passed to your LLMDs or NDs.
My comments and suggestions are not intended as a replacement
for medical advice-even if they have been well researched and applied successfully in numerous cases.

Best wishes.
Niko


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Avatar universal
PS  I was just re-reading your posts above, and meant to comment on your bloating.  Be sure your doc knows about it, and be sure not to downplay the magnitude of the discomfort and symptoms.  If the doc hears only, "I am having some bloating", that may bring a shrug.  

If instead the doc hears more detail about how long, how bad, such as 'my abdomen is swollen so much that I can't wear my usual clothes' or something to give context to how bad the symptoms are, like 'I've never had this before', then you'll likely get more reaction from the docs.  

I learned the hard way some years ago that docs often don't do well when dealing with patients who don't scream about a sprained ankle:  I had appendicitis, but a series of docs said I didn't 'look sick enough' to have it -- being strong and calm can work against your wellbeing when it comes to docs who don't know if you're a hypochondriac or a stoic.  I nearly died as a result, so don't make my mistake!  Only you know how bad off you are, and don't be afraid of looking like a wimp:  you're not.)

Keep us posted!
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Avatar universal
You say above that your doc "said that in all her years she has never had anyone have problems with long term abx."  That may well be true, likely because not everyone is susceptible to fungal infections.   Just as athlete's foot is a fungal infection that only a relatively small percentage of the population get, being susceptible to fungal problems after antibiotic treatment is not terribly common, to my understanding.

Your doc may well not have had any patients who have difficulty with long term abx, so if I were in your situation as I understand it, I would carry on with the treatment and just be sure to let the doc know if you are having symptoms of a fungal infection.  Note that does not mean only a vaginal yeast infection, but also systemic fungal infections -- that's what I had.  Once my doc recognized what was happening, I was put on antifungal meds and it all worked out:  I finished Lyme treatment and also got rid of the fungal infection.  There are risks in treatment and risks in no treatment, so try not to worry -- it sounds like you are conscientious about taking your meds and supplements etc., and that's all to the good.

Hang in there, and report anything out of the ordinary to your doc.  You go!  
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Avatar universal
Niko,

Your posts are always interesting, but I find the warnings of bad things which definitely/maybe/possibly can arise difficult to understand.  What is to be done?  Corner my doc and lecture him/her about methylation and what does the doc intend to do about it?  It's a bit like the old explorer maps labeled 'here be dragons', or the parental warning to 'be careful' as you go out the door.  

More specifics would be helpful.
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1530171 tn?1448129593
Hmm, I'd challenge this LLMDs position on the long-term abx any day of the week! lol!

An excerpt from my reply to "CD-57 questions (thread started Nov 1st, if interested to follow the conversation)

"Jackie, I was referring to Candida treatment, in order to "bypass" the genetic defects successfully.
Methylation processes are inhibited by Candida, thus rendering any nutrigenetic treatment (very complex, individualized and expensive).
I can explain in details if you really want to, but in simple terms here it goes:

It involves two main substances, methionine synthase and acetylaldehyde.
The first one,methionine synthase, is a very vital enzyme, responsible for DNA repair and  other processes, directly or indirectly, requiring methylation.
In certain gene mutations, like in MTHFR, methionine synthase is limited.
The second one, acetylaldehyde, a potent methionine synthase inhibitor,  is  a byproduct of Candida.
Conclusion: Candida inhibits Methylation.
Before seriously addressing the gene mutation, it would make sense to
eliminate such a potent inhibitor, considering its prevalence."

Your doctor has never mentioned to you Methylation and is also likely in some degree of denial when Fungal/yeast infections and candida in connection to long-term abx treatment are brought up, right?
Too bad, since these are possibly some of the "missing pieces" of the chronic Lyme's disease puzzle.

Cheers and Happy New Year to Everyone!
Niko
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Avatar universal
I take a probiotic every night before I go to bed on an empty stomach, and I do take garlic supplements as well.

I asked my LLMD today during my SKYPE appointment today about the effects and she said that in all her years she has never had anyone have problems with long term abx.

I have a childhood friend in med school that posted something about how long term abx will have all of these horrible effects. She is also very against any homeopathic medicine.  It's a shame how up coming doctors are so brainwashed in med school...
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1763947 tn?1334055319
I was on oral ABX for 2 years before switching to an herbal protocol. I took daily probiotics and additional supplements like garlic that helps control yeast.
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Avatar universal
oops, sorry, I was typing faster than my brain could keep up:  the comment above should be:

"What kind of *probiotics* are you taking?  Acidophilus, maybe?"

There are two kinds of probiotics I have encountered in dealing with Lyme:  

     -- bacteria, such as acidophilus; and

     -- yeast-based, such as Saccharomyces boulardii [including the brand name Florastor], abbreviated as S.boulardii.

Acidophilus is the more commonly used probiotic, but it is killed by the antibiotics you take if taken too close together in time.  How much time is needed between taking the acidophilus and the antibiotics?  At least a couple of hours, as I recall, but a pharmacist could answer that more accurately.

The advantage to S.boulardii is that it is *not* affected by the antibiotics you take, so S.boulardii can be taken at any time without conflict.

[Side note:  I had a reaction to S.boulardii, but my doc said he had never seen that happen to anyone, and it may be that I am just prone to fungal/yeast infections.]

fwiw.
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428506 tn?1296557399
I took oral antibiotics for about 4 years and had no real issues with adverse effects after I stopped.
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Avatar universal
What kind of antibiotics (abx) are you taking?  Acidophilus, maybe?  
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