Aa
Aa
A
A
A
Close
Avatar universal

Lyme Results: Band 23 and 41 IGM POSITIVE


Thank you for offering a platform for discussion.

I tested negative on the Lyme WB at Labcorp on June 12, but positive on two bands IGM: IGM 23 AND IGM 41. All IGG were NEGATIVE.

I have got tested for HIV, Hep C, HSV2, Clymadia, Gonorrehea and Syphillis (using RPR) and tested negative.

I have these symptions ON AND OFF from last 4 months: Abdominal Pain (mostly in Upper Abdomen), Fatigue, Non-Specific Urethritis, Headache, Leg pains and Loose and Foamy/Scattered Stools.

Coming back to tests, please comment on the following:

1. Band 41 (Flagellum) in Lyme WB is common for many diseases - Can it be related to other Flagellum like H.pylori and E.coli?
2. Is Band 23 specific to Lyme? Are there any other diseases that can be related to a Positive Band 23?
3. Would you recommend any other Lab Tests OR Any possible diseases i can relate to these tests, as, only IGM is positive and i have symptoms from last 3-4 months.


Thank you,
Scott
51 Responses
Sort by: Helpful Oldest Newest
Avatar universal
Sorry, no idea.  That's the kind of thing a doc would have to look at in context with your other symptoms and your history.  You have a complex history and a good doc is the one to help you unravel what's going on.  Best wishes --
Helpful - 0
1954289 tn?1332602519
could i possibly have a vitamin b-12 problem,i od have the white spots on my arms and the symtoms match
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I'd be sure to get hard copy of all the test results, and then decide what to do.  Neurologists are not known to be progressive thinkers when it comes to Lyme.  Let us know what you find out --

Best wishes --
Helpful - 0
1954289 tn?1332602519
he refused to test me for Lyme he said the Neurologist will take care of that
Helpful - 0
1954289 tn?1332602519
I am pretty positive i don't have this disease i have had out of control diabtes and sleep apnea for may years.I had sleeping problems when i was a kid waking up chocking for air.I have had circulatory problems from my blood being like syrup from diabetes.i will have myself checked out throughly  for lyme and for ms for my central nervous system cause i am a worry wort ans this could all be anxiety but ill make sure of that.i ignored my health problems for many years but that will never happen again.i fell bad for anyone who may get this disease and i will make it a point in my life to make sure people who i know and those i dont about this disease.I mean really you can make someone a pace maker to regulate heart beat but you cant make a solid test for a blood born disease
Helpful - 0
1954289 tn?1332602519
Please come up with a proof positive test for Lyme and train all doctors about this devasting disease.Make it a protocol if someone comes to you with a tick bite and bull eyes rash to be put on antibiotics for 1 month and to be seen once a month for a year with all blood test done to make sure the disease is gone.If it still detects the person should be put on antibiotics for as long as it takes to erradicate the disease.I'm sure the the victims of this disease would rather have a raw stomach for a while then the debilitating effects of this disease that can be so easily cured.And doctors listen to your patients,this is their lives that they entrust into your hands.Insurance company's stop being greedy and realize that its not about money,its about people getting to live a long and happy life.Jesus people with diabetes have to wait a full year to be covered on most hmo's if the disease was pre diagnosed under another hmo,do you know what diabetes can do to a person even in 1 years time.this isnt about moiney,its about the most precious gift there is and that' life,and you only get 1 chance
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Welcome.  If you aren't already aware, there is a big divide in the medical community about how to diagnose and treat Lyme disease.  The tests are not very accurate, but docs who are not Lyme specialists do not agree with that approach and so are inclined to say someone can't possibly have Lyme.

The diagnosis should be based on history and symptoms, and whether the exact number of bands on the tests are 'hits' is less important, for several reasons including that there are many strains of Lyme bacteria, and the tests don't pick up all of them equally well; after you've been infected for a while, the tests tend not to show positive even tho you have a solid infection; and there are other diseases the Lyme ticks carry that the Lyme tests don't pick up.

So the tests are helpful, but not the last word.  I have also read that band 23 is definitely Lyme; band 41 could be several other infections or could also be Lyme; and there are a dozen other bands that are reported on the standard tests.  

Lyme specialists use a different test, called PCR, that is more precise, but nonLyme specialists don't use it and/or don't believe in it.

Also know that over time, your immune system will stop reacting to the presence of Lyme bacteria, and your tests can come back clean or showing a weak infection when really you are quite ill, or if not yet feeling really lousy, you could be in the future if you get infected again and/or your immune system gets busy fighting off some other, unrelated disease and lets down its guard against the Lyme infection you already have.

My best advice is to find a Lyme specialist, who knows how to take your history, will ask specifics about your symptoms, will order appropriate tests, and will know things nonLyme docs simply don't know and/or don't care to know.

If you search online for

LLMD Miami

you will probably find some leads.  Sometimes the first doc isn't a good fit, and it pays to go on to another one, because Lyme is the wild wild west of medicine and there are some wacky docs out there who want to sell you a lot of vitamins and not much else.  (I personally TAKE a lot of vitamins, but I don't trust docs who want to sell me their own vitamins from their office; the incentives for them are lined up all wrong, in my personal opinion.)

If you need help finding an LLMD, let us know --

Good for you for looking into this!  Best wishes --
Helpful - 0
1954289 tn?1332602519
so band 23 is a solid hit on lyme diesese and band 41 is the 2 of 3 to diagnose lyme disease if i read right what is the third cause i see many listed
Helpful - 0
1954289 tn?1332602519
i thought i was infected in 1999 but the more i look at the pictures of spider bites the infection i had and the gaping hole left by it look more like a spider bite,i found an engourged tick on my leg in 2009 and went to the emergency room and thats when this happened
Helpful - 0
1954289 tn?1332602519
i had test done 10 years after i may have been infected and it showed up negative,it was in the emergency room,the blood test was sent away,what are the norms for what test are done by er doctors cause i notice 4 possible different test can be done,in anyones opinion what test were done,whats the norm for a er doc if he sends a test like that away,
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Good for you for being an independent thinker on these matters.  It is normal and necessary to trust one's doc, and it's very difficult to become a skeptic esp when so ill, but in Lyme, self-defense is regrettably necessary.

Many of us end up going 'outside network' for Lyme treatment.  NonHMOs will reimburse to some extent, but HMOs, perhaps not.  HMOs are efficient and effective with known ailments and proven treatments, but when faced with puzzling, cutting edge ailments for which there are no proven, slamdunk approaches and treatment protocols (like Lyme), the efficiency of the HMO approach can translate as rigidity and treatment failure.  Not always, of course, but it's something to be aware of.  As you are finding out, much of medicine believes it understands Lyme fully and has the appropriate treatment nailed, when it fact it doesn't, based on the experience of too many of us here and elsewhere.  Your experience may be better, and I hope it is, but it's something to be aware of.

Getting proper diagnosis and treatment is a challenge, but very well worth it.  Do keep us posted, and best wishes --  
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
You might be weary of it, but remember, if you stop, it comes back!
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Thanks, I have been doing research for 4 or 5 weeks now.  I thought band 23 was not good..  What a nightmare.  I see 1993 posts and I think, "it is better now".  HAH, maybe not.  I will have lots of questions with the Infection Control Doc., thanks to posts like this.  I am in an HMO, this is where I have to go for now.

It is really weird how this (if it is Lyme) makes you feel. I have the site bookmarked.  I will keep you posted.

I am amazed that 2 Tuesdays ago, when I had a follow up appointment from my hospital visit, I was shaking and sweating.  I asked Dr Sanjay to put me back on Doxycycline.  I said., "look at me, I am shaking and sweating".  but I had no fever.  She said you already had 3 weeks of treatment, you are fine.  Just a cold or something.  They do not understand.

A little scared, a little messed up, I am.  What is becoming clear to me is that the DRs  are not going to be an ally.  I had to argue today to get back on antibiotics.  I appreciate forums like this.  Thanks,

Brian
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Welcome.  I'm not medically trained, but from what I have read, band 23 is specific only to Lyme bacteria, meaning that band won't light up unless there are Lyme bacteria present.  Band 41 may or may not indicate the presence of Lyme bacteria.  However, docs who are NOT Lyme specialists usually require more bands and more positive (+) readings on those bands to diagnose Lyme, compared to Lyme specialists.

Unfortunately, infectious disease (ID) docs are often most resistant to diagnosing Lyme, which should not rely entirely on the admittedly poor tests available, but instead should be based on your history and symptoms.

Good luck with the ID doc; I hope you are lucky and s/he is broadminded enough to consider Lyme seriously, and also to consider other diseases carried by the same ticks.  Those diseases require separate testing and treatment from Lyme.

It is difficult to tell the docs who 'believe' in Lyme from those who don't, so going ahead to see the ID doc is probably worth doing, but in the meantime, I'd suggest you do a little research online to see if you can figure out his/her inclinations in that regard ahead of time.  Try searching/googling the ID doc's name and also search:

llmd massachusetts

or

llmd boston [or whatever area you are in]

and see what pops up.  If the appointment doesn't progress satisfactorily from your view, I'd suggest you consider see another doc, this time one who appears to have LLMD leanings.

Let us know how it goes, okay?  Best wishes --
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Wow, an active post.  I was bit by a tick the end of October.  Have not felt the same since.  Weird feeling.  Hospital once for uncontrollable shaking and sweating.  A couple more minor incidences since then.  Still get chills and my butt and back of thighs hurt.  Not pain, just soreness and a warm acking sensation.

Positive on 23 and 41 band, negative on 39.  I had to fight with my dr. today to put me back on Doxycycline.  Was on for 3 weeks.  This is a wild disease.  You do not feel like YOU.  There are times I have no motivation.  I could care less about anything. I do not like at all.

Does anyone else experience same symptoms?  Also,, my blood work (liver enzymes) make me look like a raging alcoholic.  White blood cells down, ALT and AST way high (33 & 49).  Other liver tests show my liver is distressed.  Yes I drink, same for 30 years.  All of a sudden my tests are terrible compared to last year.

any input you may have would be appreciated.  I see an infection control dr. in 3 weeks.  Do not know what his experience is with Lyme, but it is in MA, so I am guessing he has seen it before.

Brian
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Wow, an active post.  I was bit by a tick the end of October.  Have not felt the same since.  Weird feeling.  Hospital once for uncontrollable shaking and sweating.  A couple more minor incidences since then.  Still get chills and my butt and back of thighs hurt.  Not pain, just soreness and a warm acking sensation.

Positive on 23 and 41 band, negative on 39.  I had to fight with my dr. today to put me back on Doxycycline.  Was on for 3 weeks.  This is a wild disease.  You do not feel like YOU.  There are times I have no motivation.  I could care less about anything. I do not like at all.

Does anyone else experience same symptoms?  Also,, my blood work (liver enzymes) make me look like a raging alcoholic.  White blood cells down, ALT and AST way high (33 & 49).  Other liver tests show my liver is distressed.  Yes I drink, same for 30 years.  All of a sudden my tests are terrible compared to last year.

any input you may have would be appreciated.  I see an infection control dr. in 3 weeks.  Do not know what his experience is with Lyme, but it is in MA, so I am guessing he has seen it before.

Brian
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Yeah, he is a LLMD, I'm not travelling 8 hours each way for nothing! :)

Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I hope your doc is truly an LLMD, and not a regular doc.  It makes all the difference.

A nonLLMD will require several positive bands to diagnose Lyme, but an LLMD willl view it all differently.  There is much not yet known (and much being discovered every day) about Lyme -- and the tests are just not accurate enough to be the last word.

One thing an LLMD will not require is a rash or a tick -- many of us, including me, never saw either one.  

An LLMD may also, after quizzing you about your symptoms, test for other diseases the same ticks carry.  The symptom assortment is all over the place for Lyme and these co-infections, so everyone presents differently, and the docs need to be subtle in their assessment.

Feeling depressed is often part of Lyme, because of not being understood or diagnosed, but also because the the biochemical effects of the infection.  It really really really does affect your emotions, biochemically.  It's not something you can just snap out of anymore than you can snap out of a broken leg.  But it will get better with treatment.  Been there.

Take heart!  Let us know how you do!
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
So it is highly likely it's lyme with 41 AND 23.  

All of my symptoms started out of nowhere in August and I haven't felt myself since August, so it is probably lyme.  It's just so strange that I never remembered any tick and didn't have a rash etc...  

I am SO glad I came to msg boards and learned more abt lyme and demanded my dr. to run tests.  I feel lucky that I was positive with both tests too.  I cannot imagine the people that show negative and then go on not knowing what is wrong with them.

Adrenaline got me through my last weekend with graduation, engagement etc...  I've been laying down most of this week and now tonight starts a busy holiday weekend.  I just want to feel back to normal.  I've been doing the 'why me' thing and been feeling depressed this week.  I need to be able to start my job and take boards in Feb.  Looking fwd to my LLMD appt next week.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Band 41 could be Lyme, but could also be something else.

Band 23 is ONLY Lyme.and nothing else.

Non LLMDs usually require more positive bands than LLMDs do to make the call of a Lyme diagnosis.  LLMDs take into account your history and symptoms, partly because the positive test results tend to fade after time passes, so if you've been infected for a long time, you're less likely to get a positive result even if you are still infected.    That's why seeing an LLMD is important, because they take these factors into account.

Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Yeah, I just didn't know if it means I def. have the lyme bacteria, or if there are other types of bacteria/illnesses that could make certain bands positive?  This is all so confusing!!
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
The LLMD will take a careful history of your symptoms, and based on that, with additional data from your test results, the doc will make a diagnosis.  Much about Lyme is in shades of grey, rather than black or white.  That's just the way it is, not to worry.  Having a wise doc makes up for iffy tests.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I also have 23 and 41 IgM only.  How do they know it is for sure lyme?  I see a LLMD next week for the first time.  Been on doxy for about 3 weeks now.
Helpful - 0
1 Comments
did you get any more answers?  My daughter has been IGM 23 &41 for a year with treatment
Avatar universal
Do I take correctly from your comment that the drs are saying it is NOT Lyme?  And if so, on what basis?
Helpful - 0
Have an Answer?

You are reading content posted in the Lyme Disease Community

Top Infectious Diseases Answerers
1415174 tn?1453243103
CA
Learn About Top Answerers
Didn't find the answer you were looking for?
Ask a question
Popular Resources
Fearing autism, many parents aren't vaccinating their kids. Can doctors reverse this dangerous trend?
Can HIV be transmitted through this sexual activity? Dr. Jose Gonzalez-Garcia answers this commonly-asked question.
A breakthrough study discovers how to reduce risk of HIV transmission by 95 percent.
Dr. Jose Gonzalez-Garcia provides insight to the most commonly asked question about the transfer of HIV between partners.
Before your drop a dime at the pharmacy, find out if these popular cold and flu home remedies are a wonder or a waste
Fend off colds and the flu with these disease-fighting foods