Lyme Disease Community
Lymes question
About This Community:

This forum is for questions and support regarding What Causes Lyme Disease, Diagnosing Lyme Disease, and Joint Pain. Topics for discussion also include Living with Lyme Disease, Babesia, Bartonella, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, Anaplasmosis, other Tick Borne Diseases, Nervous System issues, Prevention, Risk Factors, Skin Disorders, Symptoms and Treatments

Font Size:
A
A
A
Background:
Blank
Blank
Blank
Blank Blank

Lymes question

I was wondering if Lyme Diease can be dormant without even knowing you were bit by a tick, I dont ever recall being bit by a tick, I dont even go in wooded areas or live around where theres deers, I have dealing with nerve caused from taking a medication but was suggested to get a Lyme test done, I got the IgG/IgM Borelli test done it came back NON-Reactive , that test was done here in Canada, but someone told me that Lyme can be dormant , was wondering if that is only if someone had a deer tick that had some symptoms that went into remission and was dormant , cause I never ever had these symptoms until I came off a Medication which is common from others these symptoms I am dealing with. I had an ANA test done , every blood work imaginable , MRI, Cat scans, Ultrasounds, X-Rays , all came back perfect. My GP told me that if I had Lyme based on the many symptoms I am dealing with it would of shown up on my blood work for Lyme Diease. I was wondering if Lyme can be Dormant , what are the possible causes of it being triggered? I Never ever had anyt fatique at all ever, I have more energy then anything, I never had Headaches, I Never had flu-like symptoms, I never had any fevers, Nor Chills, I read the fatique is the most common symptom, I never had any skin rash , lessions, Bullseye , so I am trying to figure this out. I am in the process of recieving a Lymes Kit from Igentics from CA, I just hate to waste  the money if I am trying to look for something that snot there. My GP said its unlikly that I have Lymes and that the higher the possibility what I am dealing with is from that medication as a Neurologist and Neuro surgeon also in writing said it caused from the medication. Just want to know someone elses opinion. Thank you
128 Comments Post a Comment
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Hello and welcome --

I will go through your message making comments (below) in this message window, but the short answer is yes, you could have Lyme, and yes, I would get the IgeneX tests done, just as you are.

That's the short answer; here is the long one:

-- "I was wondering if Lyme Diease can be dormant without even knowing you were bit by a tick, I dont ever recall being bit by a tick, I dont even go in wooded areas or live around where theres deers,"

Many of us never saw the tick that bit us, and the ticks are everywhere, not just where deer are.  There is some thought that mosquitoes and dog ticks can also carry Lyme (and I got something other than Lyme from a dog tick, in a city park across the street).  You do not need to be a forest ranger to get Lyme.

-- "I have dealing with nerve caused from taking a medication but was suggested to get a Lyme test done, I got the IgG/IgM Borelli test done it came back NON-Reactive , that test was done here in Canada,"

I'm not clear on what you are being treated for, but someone thought your symptoms sounded enough like Lyme to order the test.  The Western blot/ELISA tests you probably had for Borrelia (=Lyme) are not very accurate, and about half the time they miss an infection, esp. if it has been a while (months or longer) since you were infected.  These standard test results are usually reported by the lab according to a very high standard that was developed not for diagnosis, but for tracking the spread of Lyme across the continent, meaning that several indicators of Lyme are ignored, so that you may well have Lyme but the tests aren't very accurate, and the way they are interpreted often ignores evidence of infection.  

It also sounds like you were probably not tested for other infections that the same ticks carry perhaps half the time, but that's a different conversation.  Starting with Lyme testing is a good first step.

-- " but someone told me that Lyme can be dormant , was wondering if that is only if someone had a deer tick that had some symptoms that went into remission and was dormant , cause I never ever had these symptoms until I came off a Medication which is common from others these symptoms I am dealing with."

It is indeed possible and even common to have been bitten and gotten infected but to have few if any symptoms, because a healthy immune system can often beat down the infection and hold it in remission for a long time ... until another illness of some sort arises that puts stress on your immune system, and then the Lyme bacteria can start to act up and give you symptoms that are noticeable.  It's like not having enough police to contain all the bad guys in the neighborhood.

I think that is what happened to me ... I felt tired and out of sorts for a year or more, and the soles of my feet were sore in the mornings, but nothing bad enough to send me to the doctor.  Then I must have been bitten (again) and was suddenly very ill, and finally then diagnosed with Lyme and another tick disease (babesiosis, like malaria).  Lyme is sneaky, and it's often that we do not know when we were infected or what we have, until a knowledgeable doc comes on the scene.

-- " I had an ANA test done , every blood work imaginable , MRI, Cat scans, Ultrasounds, X-Rays , all came back perfect.  My GP told me that if I had Lyme based on the many symptoms I am dealing with it would of shown up on my blood work for Lyme Diease."

With respect, docs put way too much faith in the common Lyme tests (W.blot and ELISA), which are often inaccurate.  Lyme is supposed to be a clinical diagnosis, aided by test results, but docs are too accustomed to relying entirely on the tests and ignore the suffering patient in front of them.  Happens to many of us.

-- "I was wondering if Lyme can be Dormant , what are the possible causes of it being triggered?"

Triggers can be a re-infection with Lyme through a new tick bite, or through a new bite with a co-infection that overloads your immune system and allows the earlier Lyme symptoms to show strongly.  There is much that is not known, and it is like the old days of medicine before docs all became scientists first and physicians second.

-- " I Never ever had anyt fatique at all ever, I have more energy then anything, I never had Headaches, I Never had flu-like symptoms, I never had any fevers, Nor Chills, I read the fatique is the most common symptom, I never had any skin rash , lessions, Bullseye , so I am trying to figure this out."

I'm not clear on what your current symptoms are.

-- " I am in the process of recieving a Lymes Kit from Igentics from CA, I just hate to waste  the money if I am trying to look for something that snot there."

Good for you.  IGeneX tests in a different way from the usual Wblot/ELISA tests, and can pick up older infections that the Wblot/ELISA tests don't.

-- " My GP said its unlikly that I have Lymes and that the higher the possibility what I am dealing with is from that medication as a Neurologist and Neuro surgeon also in writing said it caused from the medication."

Do I understand correctly that your neuro thinks you are having a medication reaction?  Neuros are generally not believers in Lyme, so this is not terribly surprising.  They are taught that Lyme is hard to get and easy to cure with a couple weeks of antibiotics, but that has been shown  inaccurate in more recent research.  

I am not medically trained, but here is what I do in a similar situation:  get the test results,  take the doc's comments under advisement, and then take the test results to a Lyme specialist for a second opinion.  I would likely NOT tell the current docs that I was planning to see a Lyme specialist, because the docs may then not want to see you again, fearing getting involved in what the docs deem malpractice, and you may need those docs again later.  No point in making enemies.

Lyme specialists can be any kind of MD, but infectious disease docs and neurologists in particular are sadly not often Lyme-aware.  

If you search online for "Alberta LLMD" or wherever you are or can get to, you may find some leads to a Lyme specialist.  LLMD is NOT an official title and is used only among us patients to denote an MD who things progressive thoughts about Lyme.  No doc calls him/herself an LLMD.

Also you could send an email to

             contact [at] ilads [dot] org

and request a referral to an LLMD in your area.  That is the main organization for LLMDs.  Their website also has information about Lyme research and diagnosis.

There is also a group called 'canlyme' that may have a referral function or some hints on finding an LLMD in your area.

I hope this has been helpful -- please let us know if we can help further or if you have any questions .... and let us know how you do!  We've all been where you are.

Take care --
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
You don't describe your symptoms so I can't give any feedback on whether they are consistent with Lyme or not.  But it is true that the initial blood test is frequently a false negative.  It was for me.  

Also, Lyme can go dormant without you even seeing a tick.  The larvae and nymphs are tiny and can easily be missed.  I did have an initial illness with fever, chills, hoarseness and malaise, but I had a week of strong penicillin and it went away.  I didn't realize I had Lyme and that because of the insufficient antibiotics, it had just gone into hiding. For nearly 5 years, I would get these bouts of terrible fatigue and oppressive "heavy head" as I called it, once or twice a year for 1-3 weeks each time.  Finally, I developed chronic symptoms, starting with fatigue, light sensitivity, and chronic shortness of breath.  Every person with disseminated Lyme has their own unique story of disease presentation and progression.

I know it can be difficult to find a Lyme treating doc in Canada.  If you think Lyme might be a possibility, I personally would go for an IGeneX Western Blot and a PCR test.

Have you checked your symptoms against the Burrascano checklist?
http://www.ilads.org/lyme_disease/B_guidelines_12_17_08.pdf
Blank
1763947_tn?1334058919
I agree with Jackie and Rico, yes it cal lay dormant and even a big stress factor in your life can bring it to life. My test were negative until IgenX fount my Lyme and the co-infection bartonella. My first tick bit, not sure if I had others, was 18 years ago. I had fatigue and aches and pains, even passing out but I was misdiagnosed with other ailments until something major happened in my life which brought on the Lyme full force.
If you could tell us your symptoms, we could probably tell you more but it is important to remember that Lyme mimics lots of other diseases.
Blank
1763947_tn?1334058919
Sorry about the typos, I have big time brain fog and memory problems, I might be thinking something but it doesn't come out as what is written.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Thank you everyone for replying, I am gng to explain my symptoms as best as I can , well first off I would like to brief my story so you have an understandment what happened to me. It started in August 2009 , I was on vacation in Florida , I was taking OTC sleep aid Nytol for years every nite abt 50mg , I worked two jobs ,well anyway when we went on vacation we were gone for a Mth, so I stopped the Nytol while I was on vacation ,after abt 2 weeks stopping them I noticed burning and itching on a private area, shortly after abt 2 weeks after I went back home after out vacation and went back on the Nytol, back to work it went away. Then in Nov 20 2009 (stoppped taking the Nytol again), I resigned from my one profession and stared to focus on our Home business , we went back down to Florida for the winter for vacation, abt Dec 8 2009 exact date I started to experience that burning ,itching again , as time went on it had gotten worst , I couldnt barley walk it was so painful , couldnt wear clothes either, I went to the Docs down Florida was tested fir EVERYTHING!!!! couldnt find what was causing it , one Doc said Vulvodynia , they gacve me antibiotics, steriod creams, Premarin cream, etc...was given  Gabapetin for 2 weeks at the end they decided to give me Clonzepam/Klonopin and told me it will stop the burning, I never ever took any medications prior to that in my entire life!!!! . Well abt 3 mths taking that perscribtion and stopping taking Gabapetin for 2 weeks I started to experience burning on my legs I had a first panick attach, I had a convulsion , now I also want to mention I NEVER ever went outdoors other then walk in the community , the same as when I was home in Canada , never walked on trails , go to any parks etc... never hike, dont garden nothing , anyways back to my story , so I went to my GP and he told me to increase my dosage of the Clonozepam  from 1mg to 1.5mg , so I did as these drugs are extremly dangerous they are anti seizure medications I didnt know at the time , I just want that pain to stop, and was told it was gng to stop taht pain . Anyways long story short around 4 1/2 taking taht perscribtionand wasnt getting anywhere my GP told me to just stop them cold turkey, there is a web site called the heather ashton manual , you can google , as well as google Clonozepam withdrawl (withdrawal) syndrom (syndrome), it takes along time to recover from down regulation of Gaba Receptors that the drug did . I am 26 mths off that drug and still suffering immensingly, well I was always having good days where the symptoms wax and wane and fgelt great throughout a mth , but in Januray of this year I took a turn for the worst appearantly its not uncommon as I am on a support Forum called benzo buddies.org , anyways then someone freaked me out and told me all kinds of info abt Lymes , well I got a dog abt 1 year ago, and I have walked him , we went to a doggie park , I called them they said theres no known case of Lymes in taht area. When I was in Florida in November 25 2009, I took Childrens Benadryal and had a severe reaction with electrical voltages surging throughout my entire body and spams, Restless leg syndrom (syndrome) all over my entire body along with every symptom I had came on OVER the top for 5 days straight, then finally subsided , they in Dec I went into my hottub again and was putting my neck and shoulders by the jets and I started to have severe I mean severe muscle spasms all over in my hands feet etc... and I went down hill since thenMy GP believes me without a doubt that I am experiencing Benzo w/d /recovery, anyways my symptoms are as listed.....

Anxiety -I never had that before in my life
Bone pain all over my entire body
my neck/shoulders/face extermly stiff -I can turn my neck no problems but it very tight
Electrical stinging sharp sharp stinging throughout my entire body , I have this sensativty symptom if I scratch, rub any part of my body it triggers that stinging all over not one part of my entire body literally does not sting , its now wqhen I yawn , , turn my neck, even wiggle my ankles I sting all over, my fingers hurt so bad from the stinging , its like my fingers are broken , at times I feel like I am walking on crushed bone, I get deep muscle burning on top of all that , I have relly bad insommia, I have cramps all over my body , I am in constant pain 24-7 now, I dont get any breaks from this pain anymore. I even got reved up from taking magnesium, and Vitamin D3 .

What I DONT HAVE

I never had fatique
I never had chills
I never had fever
I never had body aches, but I do feel like my muscles are bruised from all the stinging

Thank s for listening
Or Joint pain
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Thank you for the details -- others can respond on the specifics, but based on all your comments, I would still suggest that you consult a Lyme specialist.  Your history is complicated by various medications your well-meaning docs gave you, which add medication-reaction symptoms on top of illness-generated symptoms.

Ticks that carry Lyme+ are pretty much everywhere, including Canada and Florida.  In your situation, I would find a Lyme specialist, even if it means you have to travel to do so.  
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Your symptoms are definitely neurological.  I don't know anything about the medications you were on, but it sounds like your nervous system is in hyperdrive, overreacting to stimulus.  Your experience with Children's Benadryl sounds like you are overly reactive to antihistamines, again showing oversensitivity. (I get restless legs with some antihistamines...it is a known side effect in some people.)

Twenty six months should be plenty of time to get over withdrawal from a drug.  That your doctor told you to quit cold turkey when the literature clearly says to decrease dosage and wean yourself off, doesn't say much for your doctor's knowledge.

Have you had your immune system checked to see if it is either overreacting, or lower than average?  (A basic IgG/IgM test....it can be high or high-normal in autoimmune conditions and low or low-normal in immune suppressed people.  Mine with Lyme and Bartonella was low-normal even when I was very sick.)

I would also encourage you to get checked out for tick borne disease for multiple reasons.  One is that Bartonella can cause the anxiety, muscle and bone pain. Bartonella has been documented in at least 15 different insects.  You can get it from the bite of any of them, or from a cat or dog scratch.  It is not exclusive to ticks.  You might check out the earlier post on this forum about the Bartonella checklist. IgeneX is your best lab for finding it. Many people who habe it test false negative, which is where an experienced LLMD comes in.

Your other symptoms could all be caused by Lyme (which can also cause anxiety and muscle pain and drug/chemical sensitivities).. You do not have a typical presentation, but then everyone has their own unique story to tell. You haven't had many chances at exposure, but it is not impossible.  I didn't have many risk factors either, and I still got it. As long as you don't know what you have and doctors haven't helped so far, it is worth checking out Lyme and possible coinfections.

P.S. There is no single "required" symptom of Lyme. While most people have fatigue, some don't.  While joint and muscle pain are also common, I haven't had either one.

Also, don't take any more Nytol or any other antihistamines. These so-called safe OTC drugs can be dangerous for some people.

Blank
1763947_tn?1334058919
Yes, your symptoms are many of the symptoms I have from Lyme and Bartonella . I agree with everyone to find a LLMD. After 2 years of treatment, I still get the muscle aches, electric shock like pains and anxiety but it reduced drastically, I also have other neurological symptoms. I am in FL now and yes you can get Lyme here as far as Canada goes, I wouldn't be surprised. Our CDC is finally admitting it is more of an epidemic than they knew and more people are reporting it because they now know what it is. Same could go for Canada. It may just not be reported.
To avoid the illness progressing, I would see an LLMD even if you must travel.
Let us know how you are doing.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Quote from Ricobord ...."basic IgG/IgM test....it can be high or high-normal in autoimmune conditions and low or low-normal in immune" ,  I had that test it came bacl NON-Reactive , I also had an ANA test done in Florida and Canada , that test was done 3 times since Januray this year came back Negative , that test was for Auto-Immune Diease , can Lyme symptoms stay steady steady 24-7 , as with Benzo Recovery it can definatly , someone mentioned that 2 years in W/D should be more then enough time for recovery , not in Benzo Recovery its not , some people take up to 5 years to compltly recover, one lady never had never ever had a break from any symptoms they were 24-7 up until 3 yeras and a mth after her 3rd year off she woke up one morning and every symptom were completly gone 100% , its known to do this, I guess what I am concerned abt is that I always had symptoms that waxed and waned every Mth , I had days where I felt 95% recovered , only to get hit again with all the symptoms all over, so very discourging , we question everything every day what else can be wrong , anyways it was ONLY after taking that Childrens benadryal once I got a increase intensity of symptoms that they were so intense I never thought I would make it through the nites, it lasted for abt 5 days, then they calmed down , then a few weeks after that I went into the Hottub and the pressure from the water of the jets reved all the symptoms up so severly that I only then started to have bone pain throughout my entire body , I never had that before, right now it feels like my face is ready to explode there is so much pressure on my face entire face, its like something is pushing the muscles to expand, my legs are extremly heavy as weel as my arms it feels like the bones are expanding , so extrem,ly painful, my neck , shoulders, arms , hands everywhere feel this way , my hands feel so huge it feel ackward picking anything up yet they dont even look swollen at all !! , I was wondering doing anything physical like walking , excercising or do light housework make the Lymes symptoms get more intense as it do for Bnezo Recovery ? I am so confused I never thought anything abt Lymes diease as I had no reason to suspect it ever , as far as the Bartonella I dont have any symptoms to that either, I have no or had no marks on my body that would give me any indication I was biten by anything , or was anywhere to get a tick bite , I am severe pain with the burning tonite as the muscles feel like they are being pressure and compressing my nerve endings literally , I am so much pain . Thankl you everyone for posting and replying,.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Also I would like to know can have Lyme Disease can causethe same symptom wide spread all over your ENTIRE body all the same time 24-7, I have the Bone pain , muscle tightness all over my ENTIRE body and I mean all over private areas everywhere, along with the Electrical/stinging /burning ENTIRELY all over every and I mean every part of my entire body, mouth, eyes , ears, nose , private ares both ends, head ,everywhere, I scratch I get spasms , It triggers all the symptoms more intesnsly , even just a massage, just wiping myself after gng to the BR my muscle go weak or I get spasms all over, I get intense stinging all over, every symptom of the stinging , burning , electrical ,my body is experienced it goes in my mouth with the exact same intensity , is taht Lymes symptoms , I had that a mth just after stopping Benzos .
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Do people recovery from Lymes, or is my life over if I have it ?
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Lyme and the other infections carried by the same ticks affect everyone differently, and the symptoms can come and go over time.  

The first thing is to find a knowledgeable MD.

The second thing is to get a proper diagnosis.

The third thing is to get the right treatments.

Then go have fun!  

Yes, we can and do recover.  Sometimes it takes longer for one person to start to feel better than another, but you don't know until you try.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I am so sorry to hear how much pain you are in. I can't imagine how hard it has been for you.  I really don't know anything about the medication you are describing, but with a 5 year excruciatingly painful withdrawal, I would think your doctor would have warned you before you started the meds.

What might help point you in the right direction is to get tested for Lyme at IGeneX.  I did the full Lyme and coinfection panels. I thought I had a particular coinfection, but it turned out I had a different one.  I didn't remember a tick or a rash either. (Eventually I figured out that I did see a tick - thought it was a small scab- and a rash - thought I had missed a spot with my sunscreen, but it was 6 years earlier!).

Some people hike for years and never get Lyme.  Some people walk through some leaves once and get it.  Lyme and ticks are carried by mice, squirrels, rabbits, numerous birds (incl pheasants & turkeys and migrating birds), and about a dozen other mammals besides deer. If you have been anywhere near anyplace these birds or animals have been, you could have been exposed.  The belief that you can only get it walking through a meadow in Connecticut is sadly out of date.

The immune system function test I described produces numbers as results, not "non-reactive".  It sounds like you had a Lyme screening test, either an ELISA or an IFA.  They produce either "reactive" or "non-reactive" results.  I was negative/non-reactive on this test, too.  But I showed Lyme specific antibodies in my IGeneX Western Blot.  You might also ask for a CD57 test.  I don't know if IGeneX offers it, but LabCorp does. The CD57 immune cell is only known to be suppressed in HIV and Lyme.

If you do have Lyme, it is certainly treatable. You would need to find an LLMD, as it is extremely difficult to find a mainstream doctor willing to prescribe the long term antibiotics necessary for treatment of late stage Lyme.

Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Can anyone tell me can you get reved up symptoms intensify from drinking caffine, or just taking magnesium, or even Vit D3 , as it did to me , I am really scared to death abt this
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Being fearful is a symptom of Lyme -- it affects the brain and mood.  I was certainly jumpy and emotional.

And because body chemistry is messed up in Lyme, it seems reasonable that there could be a strong reaction to various chemicals, whether food, drink or medication.

Maybe stop the coffee as a first step (it's a stimulant) and talk with your doc.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Thank you , I dont drink caffine , I tried green tes a year ago it reved me up , I was wondering dng anything physical cause symptoms to get intense, I have severe neurlogical symptoms
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Here's the bad news:  green tea has almost as much caffeine as coffee.

Lyme does affect the neurological system in a major way, tho more in some than others -- it's one of Lyme's tricks, to show up differently in different people at various times.

Anxiety is a major part of Lyme misery in many of us -- it certainly was for me.  The neurological type of Lyme can inflame the brain and nervous system, while in others Lyme focuses on the joints and muscles.

You could try taking magnesium (Mg) supplements -- Lyme uses up Mg in the body, and it is easy to become deficient.  Muscle cramps, irritability, anxiety, heart palpitations -- all those can be affected by low Mg.  I know, it sounds like it couldn't have such a great effect, but it can.  Mg carries the electrical signals from the nerves through the muscles, and that affects all the bodily messages internally.

I have read that any kind of Mg ending in "-ate" is most absorbable in the body.  I take a variety that includes Mg citrate, orotate and aspartate, and have previously taken Mg malate.  It's very soothing to the nervous system.  Be sure to tell your doc you are taking Mg supplements, tho, so s/he can take that into account.
Blank
1763947_tn?1334058919
My neuro symptoms were so severe they misdiagnosed me with MS. I know how scary that is.  Hyper anxiety too.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Hi thank you again , I tried Magnesium , natural calm , it reveed the stinging and electrical so severally , I only tried Green Tea twice in 2 years since stopping that perscribtion , someone mentioned they thought I was suffering 5 years in an ealier post , but I was only on that persribtion for 4 1/2 Mths only not years and I have been off that medication that intially caused this now 26 Mths , I asked a question earlier not sure if anyone noticed that question , do excercising , or evening dng lite housework cause symptoms to increase with anyone ? I just got back from ER and was tested for everything , liver/kidney/inflammation / CBC test , EEG , complete panel of blood work all came back Perfect!!!! I was tested for MS , had an MRI done was negative, I dont know why yourDr would say you have MS that is detected by an MRI , sory to hear that .
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Tests I had today ....

Ordered : Lytes ....sodium,potassium,chloride,Total CO2, Anion Gap, glucose random, urea, creatinine,glom filt rate...all normal

Total Protien...albumin...normal

Calcium... ca (corrected), phosphate , magnesium,amylase...normal

Bilirubin...Total Bilirubin , alk phos...normal

CBC...LKC,ERC,HB,HCT,MCV,MCH,MCHC,RDW,PLT,LYM#,MON#,NEUT#,EOS#,BASO#.....ALL NORMAL

ALT ,AST,CK,TROPONIN I ....ALL NORMAL


http://labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/cbc/tab/test
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Well, that's good news.  Now take those results to a Lyme specialist --
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Is this a good reason that just maybe just maybe it copuld be Benzo w/d  as its still common this far off verses Lyme
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Sorry, don't know about that.  Why not get checked for Lyme+?  
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I am gng to still get the Lymes test done , I am just scared to get it and scared not too .
Blank
1763947_tn?1334058919
I am not a dr but have a psychologist friend and what you have described sounds more like Lyme then Benzo w/d. We know how scary it sounds and can be. We are here for you if that is what you have.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
http://www.************.org/forum/

http://www.benzo.org.uk/profash.htm
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
wwwbenzobuddies.org
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Anyone having Lymes cause doing anything physical make the symptoms intensify? I cant seem to do anything much lately , just doing light housework makes the symptoms more intense, is that common, also was wondering I read that symptoms wax and wane can it do that minute by minute , can a symptom prolong for weeks on end steady , can it get less in a day a minute etc... But I really would like to know if anyone get more intense nerve pain , or more intense anxiety , or more intense inner vibs just from doing anything simple , lite housecleaning etc.... Thank you
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Oh, yes.  And it's different in everyone at different times.  I don't recall if taking magnesium supplements was suggested ... it's very soothing.  Any variety ending in "-ate", such as malate, orotate, aspartate, citrate.  Or take a warm bath with Epsom salts, which are actually magnesium; then it is absorbed through the skin, and the warm water (as warm as is comfortable for you) is nice too.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Thank you, I tried magnesium ,it make the nerve pain worst , I can't even take Epsom salt baths as I have severe burning everywhere ,and I mean even in that sensitive area both sides so Epsom bathes makes it worst, question is the symptoms from Lymes are they just sensations ? Just messages coming from the brain and spinal cord like mixed signals/messages? OR it causes real physical/medical symptoms, like inflammation that can be detected from blood work, etc.... Do certain symptoms show up in any tests that drs don't know the cause but can identify there's proof of something medically wrong , as being Lymes is a bacteria wouldn't that cause concrete medical issues that can be detected  but no proof of the cause?
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I am still trying to figure this all out still, I was wondering if you get a rash appear , how long do that rash last ? can it ONLY last a few Hrs , and go the next day? Also I had some other questions posted above this post if someone can please review and answer them please and thank you.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Not everyone gets a rash, and there is no fixed time how long it stays around if it does appear.
Blank
1763947_tn?1334058919
Depending on which co-infection you may have, you could get a rash or not. With my Bart's I got these raised sore rashes, eventually the sore part went away and I am left with red streaky looking flat rashes all over. But that is me, others may not get any rash.
Every night I get like an allergic style "hive" looking rash, I take benedryl and it goes away but returns most nights. There is no stead fast rule.
As for your other question, I would suggest you google Burascano's 16th edition guidelines in treating Lyme. It's an easy read especially for newbies, and talks about Lyme and co- infection symptoms. You don't need all of them but there is usually a Lyme related reason for how you are feeling.
Hope that helps.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I feel like if I have Lymes from these symptoms, its gng to be too late to treat me, I had these intense symptoms since Januray
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Part of these infections is the effect on mind and mood.

Feeling doomed and desperate are side effects of the illness.  I suspect we have all had that symptom in varying degrees over time.

It's never too late.  Don't give up, and know that it's a trick of the illness to make you feel it is hopeless.  

It's never too late.  And the only way to show the bugz who is boss is to BEAT THEM!  You go!
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
No, a few months isn't too late at all.  My doc has successfully treated people who've had Lyme for 20 years.  And yes, physical activity can make a Lyme patient's symptoms flare up.

The burning feeling with epsom salt baths is very interesting.  That suggests your nervous system is on sensory overload.  A blood test for magnesium is usually worthless, as about 97% of our magnesium is stored in our tissues.  A blood test can show normal in the blood, even if the tissues are very depleted.  Given how much magnesium revs up some neuro symptoms, you might ask if there is a muscle biopsy test for magnesium to see how much is in your tissues.

Lyme is indeed a disease of sensory problems.  We can have ringing in our ears, but our ears are fine.  Some people have creepy crawling sensations or itching all over, even if there is nothing in or on the skin.  The nervous system is falsely detecting things that aren't there due to the Lyme bacterial infection of the brain and nerves.  

Usually Lyme patients have a magnesium deficiency and supplements help us feel better.  Your situation is different.  I am not entirely convinced you have Lyme, but I am convinced you should go to an LLMD to get checked out.  You could indeed have tick borne disease(s), and if not, an LLMD can rule them out for you.  This is also a good idea because multiple other doctors have been unable to diagnose you so far.  Whatever you have, it is not a typical presentation, or it would have been identified by now.  It is good to continue working through possibilities until you get answers.

Lyme and coinfection tests from IGeneX would be very helpful.  As would a CD57 test.  This is an immune cell that is only known to be suppressed by Lyme and HIV.   Have you had your thyroid checked out?  And how about your adrenal glands and hormone levels?
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Thankyou
Blank
1763947_tn?1334058919
Also check your C-reactive protein which shows inflammation, your WBC and thyroid. When my Lyme/Bart's became very active all my blood work was abnormal. Although still abnormal it has improved with treatment so always keep copy of your test results for anything.
Blank
1763947_tn?1334058919
One thing I found very interesting before seeing an LLMD, I had an MRI of the brain which was completely normal with contrast. 6 months later, I had the same brain test at the same place and it showed lesions. My neurological symptoms were the same both times. This does not mean everyone has lesions, it just happened in my case which I find strange anyway...can they grow that fast? Who knows. My LLMD says that if the radiologist reading the scan is Lyme literate it would have been better but at that time they didn't.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Thank you again  (((hugs))) I posted earlier the recent Blood work I just had two days ago , it was Perfect ...


Ordered : TWO DAYS AGO ... Lytes ....sodium,potassium,chloride,Total CO2, Anion Gap, glucose random, urea, creatinine,glom filt rate...PERFECT

Total Protien...albumin...PERFECT

Calcium... ca (corrected), phosphate , magnesium,amylase...PERFECT

Bilirubin...Total Bilirubin , alk phos...PERFECT

CBC...LKC,ERC,HB,HCT,MCV,MCH,MCHC,RDW,PLT,LYM#,MON#,NEUT#,EOS#,BASO#.....ALL PERFECT

ALT ,AST,CK,TROPONIN I ....ALL NORMAL


http://labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/cbc/tab/test
.

February 28 THIS YEAR , I had these tests done....Ferritin, Sodium, Potassium, Chlorida, ALT , sTSH, Hemoglobin A1C, Gloucose Plasma Random, Creatinine, Urate, Vitamin B12, LH, FSH, Progestrone, Estridiol, Hemoglobin, Hematocrit, RBC, RBC indicates MCV,MCH,MCHC, RDW, WBC, Platelets, Difeerentials WBC, Neutrophils, Lymphocytes,Monocytes,Eosinophils, Basophils, Smear Platelets, RBC's ..And I had Done was CRP AND 25 Hydroxy Vitamin D ......EVERYONE ONE OF TEHSE TESTS CAME BACK PERFECT , NOTHING WAS OFF , EXCEPT I AM POST MENAPAUSUAL.

APRIL 10 THIS YEAR ...Creatinine , eGFR , Noram eGFR , hEMOGLOBIN, hEMATOCRIT, rbc, rbc INDICATES , MCV, MCH,MCHC, RDW , WBC, E.S.R. , Platelets,MPV, Differential ...WBC'S Neutrophils, Lymphocytes, Monocytes,Eosinophils,Basophils, I also had Rheumatoid, CRP, Antinuclear AB. (ANA) ....ALL PERFECT

I also had Bone density testing done , my numbers were ABOVE Normal ....PERFECT

June 27 THis year , I had Vitamin D ,Gloucose Plasma Random, Creatine, eGFR, Calcium, Magnesium, Urate, Vitamin B12, Sodium, Potassium, Chloride ....ALL PERFECT

I had AN MRI done in February on my Spine , MRI done in June last yera on my Brain , ALL PERFECT , NO LESSIONS , NO DEMYELINATION , was PERFECT ...

I had X-RAYS, ULTRASOUNDS, CAT SCANS , done all was perfect , those were done last year.

I am waiting on the KIT from IGENTICS, I am not sure what tests I am to get done as I already had the IgG amd IgM, Elisa test done here in Canada was NORMAL, Do anyone know a LLMD here in Toronto Canada , All I know I started to have Neurological Symptoms ONLY after I stopped taking a Medication , I am not in Withdrawl (withdrawal) this far out I am in Recovery from a Chemical Change taht medication did to my Brain, it is very well known it takes 2-3 years for the Brain to undo those changes to upregulate the GABA receptors, and all the symptoms you and I experience are also contributaed from Benzodipines , as well as LYME , its the exact same situation  they wax and wane , etcc.... But I guess what I am fearful is that the symptoms I am dealing with had intesified and changed as its not uncommon, but someone mentioned to me to have a LYMES test done, the thing is I never went into the woods ever, I am not really an outdoor person, the most I went was to a doggie park that hundres of people go there every day , its very popular in Florida, I walked in a trail in the woods last August once with my husband , but stayed directly on the trails , my dog has been medicated every Mth from Fleas and Ticks , we put a medication on him every Mth, My dog is Blonde so I would think we would of noticed something on him , hes a yellow Lab, my hubby play with him all day long, my hubby rub his stomache, my hubby is constantly playing with him, we only went to that doggie park probably about 4 times in total. Where we stay too in Florida theres no deer , I understand that deer ticks can be on mice and birds , but that would mean that deers had to be near their as well, I would think, we spray outside alongside our home. I never felt , noticed a tick ever on me , I NEVER had the Fatiqueness , here is a list of my symptoms....

Severe burning /stinging/electrical ALL OVER MY ENTIRE BODY ...LITERALLY!!!!! ....I had this started as soon as I went Cold Turkey off that medication 2 years ago, Yes it was 2 years ago , again its recovering from chemical changes , I know it sounds unheard off but it does happen  i provided a link above to a Forum I am on .The Electrical only started to become more consistant and severe earlier on this year after taking Childrens Benadryal, then it calmed down  , then I triued Magnesium and it set it off severally again, then it calmed down again , I then tried Vitamin D wasnt sure if it would help with my bones and It set it severally off again for the electrical, every symptom I have is the exact same intensity in my mouth and every part of my entire body , if and when it calms down on my body it calms down in my mouth , it changes from degrees from deep deep muscle burning to stinging to electrical , its always consistant every part of my entire body all the exact same time.

I cant scratch or massage my body it triggers stinging either more intensly or ontop of the other nerve pain

My muscles are extrem,ally tight every signal part of my entire body , as well feeling of bone pain every part of my entire body, I have pressure every part of my entire body, my fingers feel broken , painful , my face is so painful I cant smile or cry without it pulling , I yawn I start to sting in my mouth, I wiggle my ankles it does the same as well as even turning my neck.

The anxiety is when I am severe pain , as welll as the inner vibs, the stinging/electrical comes and goes , but the bone and muscle tightenss hasnt let up since February , its staedy thats what scaring me , I had great days the entire time I came off symptoms left for 3-4 days and I was feeling almost normal again , i was excercising etc... But since I took that childrens benadryal back in November , then it calmed down but it was after getting in our hottub I havent been the same since I got more symptoms and more intense asnd I only get a day once in awhile without the nerve pain only , so now I am scared even more to death  I had hope eventually I will recover from Benzodipine , but now I am scared I will have Lymes and will be like this forever , I do know if I have it My Family Dr will not accept puttiong me on antibiotics, I am scared cause I wouldnt even know how long I had Lymes , I read alot of horrid stories , and I am scared . My Life is gng to be over , I dont know how much more pain I can endure, As I cant take anything as I am super sensative to everything since all this happened to me, I tried an antibiotic last year one pill a penicillian for a pimple and I ended up in ER from all the symptoms went crazy. My neck muscles and bones are closing in and tightening so bad , its effecting my vocal box , its even hard to annouce some words its so tight , I fear thats never gng to stop. I am so osrry abt this long story I am just really confused as to whats what.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Some comments:

-- "I am waiting on the KIT from IGENTICS, I am not sure what tests I am to get done as I already had the IgG amd IgM, Elisa test done here in Canada was NORMAL, "

IGeneX does a PCR test that looks for Lyme bacteria DNA in your blood, not for your immune system reaction.  That is, the test looks for direct evidence of Lyme bacteria, not for faint footprints where it may have been.

-- "Do anyone know a LLMD here in Toronto Canada"

          CanLyme has a website.  Check it out.  

          Also search online for your geographic area and LLMD:  

                          Toronto LLMD

          Email to

                 contact [at] ILADS [dot] org

and tell them what geographic area you are in or can get to.  They will send you docs in that area, but no guarantees they are perfect docs -- you will still have to vet that yourself.

-- "All I know I started to have Neurological Symptoms ONLY after I stopped taking a Medication , I am not in Withdrawl (withdrawal) this far out I am in Recovery from a Chemical Change taht medication did to my Brain, it is very well known it takes 2-3 years for the Brain to undo those changes to upregulate the GABA receptors, and all the symptoms you and I experience are also contributaed from Benzodipines , as well as LYME , its the exact same situation  they wax and wane , etcc...."

I think someone else here commented on this.  We aren't doctors and I t tell you what this means.  I would find a Lyme specialist.  

-- "I never went into the woods ever, I am not really an outdoor person, the most I went was to a doggie park that hundres of people go there every day"

Dogs mean ticks, and they are everywhere.  The ticks don't ask if you are really an outdoors person before they decide to bite you.

-- "I walked in a trail in the woods last August once with my husband , but stayed directly on the trails"

Doesn't matter.  Ticks don't have good manners.

-- "My dog is Blonde so I would think we would of noticed something on him , hes a yellow Lab, my hubby play with him all day long, my hubby rub his stomache, my hubby is constantly playing with him, we only went to that doggie park probably about 4 times in total."

The Lyme ticks are the size of the period at the end of a sentence.  They are often not seen.  The ticks do not sit on the top of the dog fur:  they go to the skin where they can feed.  How many times you went to the park is irrelevant.  Once is enough.

-- "Where we stay too in Florida theres no deer , I understand that deer ticks can be on mice and birds , but that would mean that deers had to be near their as well, I would think, we spray outside alongside our home."

Rather than put up all these arguments about why you could never ever even vaguely have been near a deer, a tick, or an illness, just deal with where you are now.  The Lyme bacteria are not persuaded by your arguments.  The ticks are called deer ticks:  they do not have to be sitting on a deer to jump onto you.

-- "I never felt , noticed a tick ever on me"

Neither did I.  Neither did many of us.  It's irrelevant.

-- "I NEVER had the Fatiqueness"

Everyone is different.  You may have Lyme, you may not, but no one here can diagnose you.  See a competent doctor.

-- "My Family Dr will not accept puttiong me on antibiotics"

Find a new doctor.

-- "I am scared cause I wouldnt even know how long I had Lymes , I read alot of horrid stories , and I am scared ."

Take charge and find a new doctor.

-- "My Life is gng to be over , I dont know how much more pain I can endure, As I cant take anything as I am super sensative to everything since all this happened to me, I tried an antibiotic last year one pill a penicillian for a pimple and I ended up in ER from all the symptoms went crazy. My neck muscles and bones are closing in and tightening so bad , its effecting my vocal box , its even hard to annouce some words its so tight , I fear thats never gng to stop. I am so osrry abt this long story I am just really confused as to whats what."

Find a new doctor.  What are you waiting for?  Just do it.  It's your life -- you have to take charge.  You have a husband; get him to help you find a new doctor.  Just do it.  Just do it.  Just do it.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Thankyou
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I read Ticks dont jump they crawl like spiders is this true?
Blank
1763947_tn?1334058919
I was not an outdoor person either, I have the electrical pain as I said before, my neck and back, arm and shoulders ache. Some people have it, some don't. I waited 18 yrs because I never got a rash and my girls, now in their 20's remember my tick bite just recently, back then I didn't know about Lyme. I don't want to sound cold but your life might be over if you don't seek an LLMD and you have Lyme. It won't be easy during treatment but you will improve and hopefully cured. Google Lyme doc and your city, it's really worth it and have your hubby help you. I was all alone at my sickest and it was rough.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Theres no LLMD drs here in ONtario, I googled that Link provided ,and I was on Canlyme site , did you ever recover? do you still have the electrical? What test should I order ? How long did your treament last , what were you on? sorry for all the questions. Thank you
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Got Lyme test back today , it came bck IGM positive ..
.+18 ,** +31, **+41, +58 , Rest was negtive , CDC/NYS Negative

IGG Negartive , CDC Negative

**23-25 ...IDN
**41+ , 58+

do I have Lyme ? 100% Lyme , can it be sonmething else istead of Lyme?
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Can anyone answer my quetion please
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Your results are fairly similar to mine. I tested false negative twice before IGeneX.  I have neuroborreliosis, which is neurologic Lyme. I also tested positive for Bartonella at IGeneX.

I tested IGeneX positive on the IgM with bands 18, 31, 41 (single + on each). On my IgG I only had an Indeterminant on 31 and +41, which was negative, even though I had chronic symptoms for 16 months and had been infected a total of 6 years.  I am absolutely positive I have Lyme, and I have one less band than you do. Most LLMDs will diagnose with just band 18 and 41.

I am sorry to say that in my opinion, you definitely have Lyme.

You can look on this page to see an explanation for each band.

https://sites.google.com/site/drjoneskids/lab-tests/tests-explained--dr-crist

Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I have positive for band 18 and 41 on stony brook western blot(ordered by my neurologist) for both blood serum and spinal fluid.

I have positive for band 41 and IND for band 41, and negative for all other bands on igenex(ordered by LLMD).

My reaction(herx) and response(improvement) to Rocephin IV confirmed lyme diseases according to my non-lyme literate neurologist.

You have more positives bands than I do. I think that is enough to say you are having chronic infection. Lyme disease do strange things, different things from one person to next. Making it all confusing, like you say, what's what.

i do have stingy, burning, electrical shock like sensations among my long list of symptoms.

It is possible meds you were on covering those symptoms for a while?

My chronic symptoms changing over the time, since late 90's.  So I probably had it over ten years now.  Since I respond very well to Rocephin IV, I know it can be taken care of--eventually. Yours can be taken care of...eventually, just have to find right combinations of treatment..

How fast can we get to remission or cure-that's million dollar question.
Blank
1763947_tn?1334058919
I had the same positive bands as you plus positive at igeneX for Bart's and babs.
My electrical shock pains have gone away (fingers crossed) with Bart treatment. I still have neuropathy in my feet and toes and memory, vision and balance issues.
I am sorry like the others,  to say I think you have Lyme.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Well I spoke to a PH D Eva Spai , she went through Benzo w/d as I am now, thats he medication I as on only for 4 mths, I dont buy it that it was masking symptoms , I never had symptoms prior to that , I was put on it for Vaginal burning ,as I am Post Menopausaul, anyway this PH D does research on Lymes disease , this is what she wrote me
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
again your test in inconclusive so you might you might not have Lyme or any other infection....if you do not get better Cowden protocol can handle Lyme or other infections.. very bests Eva






On Aug 25, 2012, at 10:07 AM, laura levesque wrote:




Thank you so much , Eva I was wondering if I do have Lyme by waiting another few months will the Lyme make me sicker and I could get really sick and not ever get better from it, I am not so worried about the BEnzo as much as Lyme now. I use to have great windows before , but in January I got severly worst ,I was at that time 19 Months off, it all started back in November when I tried children's benadryal it revved me up severly for 5 days , it was the worst I ever was, then in December I was going in the ht tub , I did it a few times but the last time I was putting the jers directly on my neck and back , I then went into a tailspin of spasms all over , from that day on I went down hill , I was sweating every day from sweating to chills in minutes , was doing that off and on for Months , I am also post menopausal , I couldn't even lift my hands above my head my shoulders and next were so painful , I can't cross my legs the muscles in the thighs are so tight , my feet are painful , felt like I was walking on crushed bones off and on, ankle was feeling like I twisted it off and on, hip felt like it was out of my socket off and on, the feet, hip, ankle symptoms are gone that lasted a few mths except my feet are still sore walking on , not sure if it has anything to do with the severe stinging my body has been enduring , after that benadryal the stinging my body has all over was so severe it felt as if I am being cut up with a michette knife , like I am being sliced and diced. My hands am really worried about and my face , from November my hands and fingers are extremely painful , my fingers feel broke it was gradual and now they are really bad , it's on going ,one finger feels like a constant sting when vending it , it comes and goes once in awhile , and my face it got so tight this started in February , the muscles arevso tight cause my neck and shoulders are extremely tight since decmber after the hot tub incident , that it hurts when I cry, laugh etc... It's all the time , I can't even exercise anymore it makes it tighter , the stinging and triggering I always had since I came off benzos except it just is more intense , but I have been taking nopeala this past week , it's a berry drink , and it's been gradually calming down , a big difference , not completely gone but a huge difference for now. But , I guess I worry about my face and hands and stiffness of my shoulders are the most painful ones if it's related to Lymes or benzos , I had muscle stiffness in my neck, shoulders, etc throughout but it wasn't 24-7 as it is now, I don't get any relief , other then I arm not sure but it's not as intense , I do know before sometimes I could raise my hands above my head. I seen videos with people bed ridden from Lymes ,a video clip from under my skin ,I am afraid I will end up like that if I don't get treated, it doesnt make any sense as to how I got a deer tick , I have a dog but he don't run in the woods , he's always groomed etc... As I mentioned I my first email. Eva is Igentics Lab in California a sham, someone told me my lab work showing the number that I had , I think it was 38 band , I am on my iPad writing this and can't review the numbers that I sent you that were positive on the Lyme test ,  but that number in the 38 range was a marker for an old infection , it represents an outer protien someone told me that could be a virus , herpes or anything , is that true, then she told me the band marker for 41 was positive for everyone , I know you mentioned that Lyme testing is not accurate , but if I do waiting a few mths more to see is it gng to make me sicker with lymes and harder to treat . Thank you Eva .


  
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
Dear Laura



I am very sorry you have to go through this...all the symptoms you have is consistent  however with benzo withdrawal - I had very similar experiences. Yes it takes time about 2-3 years. The most important thing is to be away from any stimulus, even loud noise can trigger symptoms. And yes my main symptoms started when I weaned off slowly from benzo. Please do not be afraid it will go away. Look for any stimulus which might trigger relapse.




About Lyme it is obviously inconclusive, however if you have a low level infection it might also bothering the system since Borrelia makes neurotoxins. If you are not better/no improvement in the next couple months I would recommend to take the Cowden protocol but start with lower doses that it recommends  (!/3 or 1/4). Also be sure you identify some triggering food - check usual suspects like wheat, egg, corn, milk, nuts. Again anything bothering the body can trigger the symptoms.




I hope you feel better soon that fact that you have 4-5 good days is a very good sign. Very bests Eva










On Aug 24, 2012, at 9:14 PM, laura levesque wrote:





Hi , I was given your name by Geraldine, I was just recently diagnoused with Lymes , and I am gng through Benzo w/d, I amending my story to you as well as my Lab work , was wondering if you have some time to review it please , I copied and pasted my story so that I didnt have to rewrite it again txs.
I am not sure what tests I am to get done as I already had the IgG amd IgM, Elisa test done here in Canada was NORMAL, Do anyone know a LLMD here in Toronto Canada , All I know I started to have Neurological Symptoms ONLY after I stopped taking a Medication , I am not in Withdrawl (withdrawal) this far out I am in Recovery from a Chemical Change taht medication did to my Brain, it is very well known it takes 2-3 years for the Brain to undo those changes to upregulate the GABA receptors, and all the symptoms you and I experience are also contributaed from Benzodipines , as well as LYME , its the exact same situation they wax and wane , etcc.... But I guess what I am fearful is that the symptoms I am dealing with had intesified and changed as its not uncommon, but someone mentioned to me to have a LYMES test done, the thing is I never went into the woods ever, I am not really an outdoor person, the most I went was to a doggie park that hundres of people go there every day , its very popular in Florida, I walked in a trail in the woods last August once with my husband , but stayed directly on the trails , my dog has been medicated every Mth from Fleas and Ticks , we put a medication on him every Mth, My dog is Blonde so I would think we would of noticed something on him , hes a yellow Lab, my hubby play with him all day long, my hubby rub his stomache, my hubby is constantly playing with him, we only went to that doggie park probably about 4 times in total. Where we stay too in Florida theres no deer , I understand that deer ticks can be on mice and birds , but that would mean that deers had to be near their as well, I would think, we spray outside alongside our home. I never felt , noticed a tick ever on me , I NEVER had the Fatiqueness , here is a list of my symptoms....

Severe burning /stinging/electrical ALL OVER MY ENTIRE BODY ...LITERALLY!!!!! ....I had this started as soon as I went Cold Turkey off that medication 2 years ago, Yes it was 2 years ago , again its recovering from chemical changes , I know it sounds unheard off but it does happen i provided a link above to a Forum I am on .The Electrical only started to become more consistant and severe earlier on this year after taking Childrens Benadryal, then it calmed down , then I triued Magnesium and it set it off severally again, then it calmed down again , I then tried Vitamin D wasnt sure if it would help with my bones and It set it severally off again for the electrical, every symptom I have is the exact same intensity in my mouth and every part of my entire body , if and when it calms down on my body it calms down in my mouth , it changes from degrees from deep deep muscle burning to stinging to electrical , its always consistant every part of my entire body all the exact same time.

I cant scratch or massage my body it triggers stinging either more intensly or ontop of the other nerve pain

My muscles are extrem,ally tight every signal part of my entire body , as well feeling of bone pain every part of my entire body, I have pressure every part of my entire body, my fingers feel broken , painful , my face is so painful I cant smile or cry without it pulling , I yawn I start to sting in my mouth, I wiggle my ankles it does the same as well as even turning my neck.

The anxiety is when I am severe pain , as welll as the inner vibs, the stinging/electrical comes and goes , but the bone and muscle tightenss hasnt let up since February , its staedy thats what scaring me , I had great days the entire time I came off symptoms left for 3-4 days and I was feeling almost normal again , i was excercising etc... But since I took that childrens benadryal back in November , then it calmed down but it was after getting in our hottub I havent been the same since I got more symptoms and more intense asnd I only get a day once in awhile without the nerve pain only , so now I am scared even more to death I had hope eventually I will recover from Benzodipine , but now I am scared I will have Lymes and will be like this forever , I do know if I have it My Family Dr will not accept puttiong me on antibiotics, I am scared cause I wouldnt even know how long I had Lymes , I read alot of horrid stories , and I am scared . My Life is gng to be over , I dont know how much more pain I can endure, As I cant take anything as I am super sensative to everything since all this happened to me, I tried an antibiotic last year one pill a penicillian for a pimple and I ended up in ER from all the symptoms went crazy. My neck muscles and bones are closing in and tightening so bad , its effecting my vocal box , its even hard to annouce some words its so tight , I fear thats never gng to stop. I am so osrry abt this long story I am just really confused as to whats what.
  
MY LAB WORK....
  
IGG -Result came back negative
CDC/NYS result negative

**23-25- IDN (Meaning Idication), not neg or not positive
**41-positive

IGM -result Positive
CDC/NYS - Negative


Lyme IGM WesternBlot

Igenex interpratation is based on internal validation studies. By Igentixs criteria . IGM WB is considered positive if two or more of the double starred bands below are present. The IGM WB is considered negtive if less then 2 starred bands are present . A positive result suggests exposure to B burgdorferi. By CDC/NYS criteria , IGM WB is reported positive if 2 of the bands are present : 23-25, 39, 41 KDG . The IGM WB is negative if less then 2 bands are present.
bAND INTENSITY , NEGATIVE (-) No band detected ,
Indeterminate (IDN)
BAND PRESENT WITH INTENSITY  - TO CALIBRATION STANDARD

IgM WESTERN BLOT

IGENTIX IgM result -POSITIVE
CDC/NYS RESULT -NEGATIVE

18 kdg -positive
**31 kdg - positive
**41-positive
58-positive

IgG Results -negative
CDC/NYS-NEGATIVE

**23-25KDG-IND

58-POSITIVE



  
COULD THEY HAVE MADE A MISTAKE ?  THANK YOU
  

Sincerely
Laura  
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
please do not worry about the IgM it is very controversial what does  it mean and I am sorry I have to run now I am very overwhelmed with the new academic year and the family. Nutramedix sells the Cowden protocol very bests Eva

http://www.evasapi.net/
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Are any of you taking any medications other then antbiotics , if so I would stongly see if its the medication causing your symptoms, Opiodiates can cause neurological symptoms as well as mental, as Benzodipines are seriously dangerous, as anyone taken a Fluroquinlone antibiotic I would strongly do research on them they cause permanent damage to tendons, and CNS ,


Research about medication symptoms ... heather ashton Manual

************ Forum

Thats what caused my severe reaction intially , that Link I gave you to that Dr that researchs Lyme went through Benzo W/D and it took her 3 years to recover , it cuses severe Mental , neurological symptoms , its down regulation of Gaba Receptors , I worry abt Igentics I heard they give alot of positive results , I had a testing in Canada it came back negative , I am in 1005 perfect health, I never had typical lyme symptoms fatique, headaches, fever , flu like symptoms, all the symptoms I have has been ever since I came off that drug , as thousnads of others that are gng through this , so again I am still not 100% convinced it could b Lyme , as maybe the same for some of you here . Just keep an open mind ,I am gng to wait a few more mths to see if there is gng to be any changes to these symptoms and then maybe take another test at anothe rLab , any suggestions beside Igentics ? if the test comes back the same results then I would consider I hae Lymes , is Labcorp a good Lab to get tetsted , if so what test should I do thre. txs for reading
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
That is terrific that Dr. Sapi was willing to respond. She is indeed a well known Lyme researcher.  However, she is not a practicing physician and cannot diagnose you, especially via email.

I have read from others that there are no real LLMDs in Canada. The national health service there sets the treatment guidlines and they use the IDSA's guidelines.  Most late stage Canadian Lyme patients have to come to the US for long term antibiotics.  However, you can check with canlyme.org or a local support group to see if they have any suggestions.

According to the ILADS docs I have read, IGeneX testing is superior to LabCorp for Lyme. If you want another lab test for comparison, the LymeMD says Clongen is excellent, and Stonybrook is another alternative that shows all relative bands.  But he also says IgeneX finds cases that the others miss.

I personally don't see how your IGeneX result can be seen as non specific. You have band 18, which LLMDs consider completely Lyme specific, which means it only shows up when you have been exposed to Lyme. According to my doc, the fact that only IgM results show up only means that your body is looking at it as a current infection, and has not converted to making long term "protective" IgG antibodies.  Many patients do not seroconvert, as this is called. I didn't. I had only IgM results after 6 years.

However, you say you didn't have Lyme symptoms before your current medication withdrawal ordeal.  That is very possible. Many people have a below-the-radar case of Lyme and don't know it until it comes out later, after the immune system is stressed by something else.  Fatigue is common, but not required. My PA told me they definitely see patients with no fatigue.  I didn't get fatigued until 4 yrs 8 months after I got bit.

Because you have had such unpleasant results from taking meds, perhaps Dr. Sapi's suggestion of taking herbals for Lyme is a good idea. You could also have reactions to them, too, as some of them are antibiotics. But they are much less likely to cause harsh side effects as prescriptions are.  Realize that a herheimer reaction is always possible when taking something that can kill spirochetes. A herx can be as generic as a headache, or as specific as an intensification of one of more of your symptoms. Usually it passes in a few hours or a day or two.

Your medication withdrawal issue definitely complicates things. Herbals could suit you fine for the Lyme, as perhaps your case of Lyme is still mild.  I don't think you will really know what is Lyme and what is your medication withdrawal until after you have passed the time period for withdrawal.  And yes, without treatment, the Lyme could get worse.  Just don't take any steroids or immune suppressing drugs!  Or the Lyme will get much worse, and more difficult to treat.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Thank you , as Dr Spai suggested I should give it a few more Mths to see if I have any changes in these symptoms , as the Stinging finally has ben calming down for abt 5 days now , as Dr Spai also went through Benzo W/D , so she is definatly a canadiate and undrstand cmpletly abt Benzo W/D even through e-mails, as she mentioned its classic benzo w/d ymptoms. As well as Lyme too , I just dont want to take any thing to compromise recovery of Benzo w/d , as you mentiond that IgM test could be a current infection? I was told band 31 can show as active even if you had Herpes ? is that correct ? and was told that 41 is also postive on almost everyones repor from Igentics , band 18 I ws told was irrelavent , I just dont get where I got Lyme , is this recent or I had it awhile ? Thank you for replying , if I wait a few more mths is it gng to compicate hings more with the Lyme , I know people that as yorself went years without being detected and recovered or got better.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
No, band 18 is not irrelevant. It is LYME SPECIFIC, which means ONLY Lyme has that protein on its surface. No other bacteria has it.  It was just not included in the CDC Surveillance criteria because it occurred less often than other bands.  The CDC surveillance criteria was developed to follow trends of the infection, which means they wanted little to no false possitives. It was not designed to become a diagnostic absolute. Unfortunately, it evolved into that, and doctors were told to follow it without questioning it or trying to understand it. (Too confusing, they are told. When I asked a doctor about seeing the bands on a Western Blot, he said he isn't a microbiologist, and we just need to look at the lab result of + or -.)

Yes, you can get b

Band 31 is so common to Lyme that it was one of the proteins used in the failed Lymerix vaccine, along with Band 34.  IgeneX reports that band 31 usually shows up later in the disease, as much as a year later, and is more common in people with neurological symptoms (as compared to people with primarily joint pain and arthritis).  

Yes, band 41 is very common. It is from the flagella of a spirochete, and many of us have dental spirochetes in our mouths.  It is also nearly universal in Lyme patients.

If you want to try to convince a doctor to give you abx for Lyme, then do some research and find a believable source that describes Band 18 as Lyme specific.  The protein is referred to as 18kDa. Our immune systems make an antibody to this protein when it realizes it is foreign. It is this antibody that displays a visual "band" on a Western Blot.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Oops..posted before I finished...  The downside of an iPad-stray finger touches do unexpected things!

I just want to encourage you that you can get better.  Know that anxiety and depression are well known symptoms of Lyme, not just a result of not feeling well and being worried about it. I have had both.  Treat them, if you can tolerate the treatments, as that can help.  

Keep us posted!
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
On your list thats on the Forum , its listed 18 as unknown ? , I was talking to someone knowledgable om the phone as she said its unproven on Lyme test is the IgM is meaning its a recent infection , I was told that it could be something I got years andcyears ago even as a child, I f you read what Dr Eva Saapi wrote me about Benzo w/d as shes very knowageable of Benzo w/d as she went through a horrific w/d period herself that lasted 3 years, also she specfically said that Lyme tests are inclusive and for me not toworry abt the IgM being positive it was inconclusive and also suggested me to give it a fe more Mths to see how I feel. So,I probably have Lymes but all these symptoms are still mostly benzo related m that the Lyme disease is asymptomatic ,thats a possibility ? thanks , als was still wondering if IgM results could also still mimic other bacteria, virus etc... as its a protein , they cant actually see the tick right?
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
On your list thats on the Forum , its listed 18 as unknown ? , I was talking to someone knowledgable om the phone as she said its unproven on Lyme test is the IgM is meaning its a recent infection , I was told that it could be something I got years andcyears ago even as a child, I f you read what Dr Eva Saapi wrote me about Benzo w/d as shes very knowageable of Benzo w/d as she went through a horrific w/d period herself that lasted 3 years, also she specfically said that Lyme tests are inclusive and for me not toworry abt the IgM being positive it was inconclusive and also suggested me to give it a fe more Mths to see how I feel. So,I probably have Lymes but all these symptoms are still mostly benzo related m that the Lyme disease is asymptomatic ,thats a possibility ? thanks , als was still wondering if IgM results could also still mimic other bacteria, virus etc... as its a protein , they cant actually see the tick right?
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Another question IgM is positive and active wouldnt my body be producing antibodies to fight off an infection , the IgG is antibodies that fight off infection , if its negatuve , then my body is not fighting any infection , so then the IgM is asymptomaic ?
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Band 41--yes, it can be other kind spirochete. If your teeth aren't falling out, and you don't have syphillis (syphilis), then what else could it be?

The bottom line you have some kind of spirochete swimming around in your body.

Some spirochete, including borrelia, is known to turn off body's immune system so it don't produce antibodies to fight off an infection.

Take a look at these three links.  Band 18 is significant.  It appears it only shows up with borrelia infection.

http://hormoneandlongevitycenter.com/lymedisease/

http://novatec-id.com/blot/western_blot_en.htm

http://www.publichealthalert.org/Articles/jamesschaller/western%20blots%20made%20easy.html

You have nothing to lose by try long term antibiotics, and a lot to gain if you do feel better with it.  Just my two cent.

Blank
1530171_tn?1362547225
Hey Laura!
What a small world!
So sorry that you're going through all this.
Unfortunately the nature of this condition whether it is L.D
or not, in combination with your benz w/d (yes I do remember, it's actually hard to forget this!) is as complicated as it gets.

And yes, there are no LLMDs left in Canada as I understand.
The last LLMD ,was in North York, Dr "B", and who I had recommended
to a friend last year, simply vanished and his office was no longer taking calls. The College of Surgeons and Physicians of Ontario most likely "got" to him. I was afraid of this, as the College has access to the prescribing
patterns of MDs through matching encoded MDIDs with drug prescriptions
obtained from Pharmacies, which in turn sell them to "research" companies, and resold to big Pharma -so they can target Doctors to prescribe more of their drugs-and to government agencies (Big Brother)and other entities like the College of Surgeons and Phycisians of Ontario.
who are out there to look after ...our interests! lol! What a racket!!!
Enough ranting.

Some helpful info that I posted recently:

Igenex Western Blot Break Down by band.

(There are nine known Borrelia burgdorferi genus species specific KDA Western Blot antibodies (bands) against an estimated 1800 spirochete different proteins.  We are still at the infancy stage with this, lol!)

9 cross-reactive for Borrellia

12 specific for Bb

18 HIGHLY SPECIFIC to Lyme! (Many LLMD's say if this band alone is positive, you have lyme )

20 cross-reactive for Borrellia

21 unknown

22 specific for Bb, probably really the 23/25 band

23-25 outer surface protein C (OspC), specific for Bb

28 unknown

30 unknown; probably an outer surface protein; common in European and

one California strain - Has cross-reactivity with several different types of viruses

31 outer surface protein A (OspA), specific for Bb - Has cross-reactivity with several different types of viruses

34 outer surface protein B (Osp; specific for Bb)

35 specific for Bb

37 specific for Bb

38 cross-reactive for Bb

39 is a major protein of Bb flagellin; specific for Bb

41 flagellin protein of all spirochetes; this is usually the first to appear after a spirochete infection but is NOT specific to Lyme (i.e, other spirochete diseases have flagellas - see link above "Western Blot Made Easy" for more info)

45 cross-reactive for all Borellia

50 cross-reactive for all Borrellia

55 cross-reactive for all Borrellia

57 cross-reactive for all Borrellia

58 unknown but may be a heat-shock Bb protein

60 cross reactive for all Borrellia

66 cross-reactive for all Borrelia, common in all bacteria

83 specific antigen for the Lyme bacterium, probably a cytoplasmic membrane

93 unknown, probably the same protein in band 83, just migrates differently in some patients[/b]

You can draw your own conclusions from this list.





Anything abnormal is normal with Lyme Disease and Company (co-infections) in regards to your last question.
As an example, here's an excerpt of a recent post I sent to another member here:

The Lyme disease spirochete -I'll call it Bb from now on- produces many
Outer surface proteins A&B (OspA) and (OspB) -in swollen and unfed ticks
but no OspC, pre-infection stage.
After it's first feasting (you blood), the Bb upregulates OspC in preparation for starting an infection.
The immune system in response puts a lot of strain on the Bb.
Bb, in order to mount a full blown attack and inflict an extensive infection,
downregulates OspC in order to evade the immune system!
During this phase it upregulates other lipoproteins and other Osps substantially, adapting to the environment & time in order to defend itself from innate destruction.
This is what takes place in the initial stages of infection.
There's a complex matrix of constantly changing Bb activity in  lipoprotein
expression and regulation, using adaptation and modification, with corresponding humoral response. Your IgG readings at the time of the testing are significant to a degree- if, high now for example to indicate possible early infection, but in absence of other clinical information, what about mutations and reformulations at later stages of infection eliciting Immune response, thus likely elevated IGg findings, as well?
What conclusions can be drawn from these ever-fluctuating findings at the testing forefront with an extremely evasive and illusive pleomorphic pathogen at the root of all this. Medical Gibberish to most, I guess.
Clinical investigation is so important

My opinion: Deal with the Benz issue at present.
Take care of your immune system.
You will need it to be as balanced as possible! If you need info with this,
it is one of my stronger areas of knowledge.
Follow through with your DX with LD and Co-infections.
I do hope that you're getting the complete IGeneX Lyme Disease and Co-infections panel, as some of the Co-infections are even more prevalent than Bb according to many researchers. Meanwhile find a good LLMD in neighbouring States to Ontario, not too far from you. Not for treatment yet,
as I realize that you are too vulnerable to start any added medical protocol
whatsoever at this point.
I've been looking into Rife Machines, and so far I'm getting very good feedback from users, some who have also battled Lyme Disease and Cancer. It seems that the Doug Coil Rife unit is the one most recommended for Lyme Disease. I will post my findings when I will have more conclusive information. It might require permission form medhelp
to do this. Recently I got a warning from medhelp for posting information about stirwands -not the link directly but disguised- as it is against their rules to post links for websites or other forums in any way!

So take good care and keep in touch. I'm glad and also sad to find you on this part of the forum. You know what I mean.
Hang in there and God Bless.
Hugs!!!
Niko
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/23/health/policy/23lyme.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I took Vitamin D3 about 2 mths ago ,I read somewhere it has steriod in it , not the actual steriod , but some kind of steriod, I was wondering if that caused the Lyme to be active, I took only one tiny drop of liquid only!!! I read that having Lyme you cant take steriods.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I got this list from another Forum, why do your Forum say # 18 is Lyme and another says its unknown, I had spoken to others on the Phone it also states its unknow as well as my Lyme report from Igentics it specifically says # 18 is UNKNOW , it doesnt say LYME

Western Blot Bands description:

9 cross-reactive for Borrellia
12 specific for Bb
18 unknown
20 cross-reactive for Borrellia
21 unknown
22 specific for Bb, probably really the 23/25 band
23-25 outer surface protein C (OspC), specific for Bb
28 unknown
30 unknown; probably an outer surface protein; common in European and
one California strain
31 outer surface protein A (OspA), specific for Bb
34 outer surface protein B (OspB); specific for Bb
35 specific for Bb
37 specific for Bb
38 cross-reactive for Bb
39 is a major protein of Bb flagellin; specific for Bb
41 flagellin protein of all spirochetes; this is usually the first to appear after a Bb infection and is specific for all Borrellia
45 cross-reactive for all Borellia (sometimes people with Lyme who have
this band positive also have the co-infection Ehrlichiosis)
50 cross-reactive for all Borrellia
55 cross-reactive for all Borrellia
57 cross-reactive for all Borrellia
58 unknown but may be a heat-shock Bb protein
60 cross reactive for all Borrellia
66 cross-reactive for all Borrelia, common in all bacteria
83 specific antigen for the Lyme bacterium, probably a cytoplasmic membrane
93 unknown, probably the same protein in band 83, just migrates differently in some patients

Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Thank you Nicko xoxoxo
Blank
Avatar_f_tn

Band 31 is so common to Lyme that it was one of the proteins used in the failed Lymerix vaccine, along with Band 34.  IgeneX reports that band 31 usually shows up later in the disease, as much as a year later, and is more common in people with neurological symptoms (as compared to people with primarily joint pain and arthritis).  

Yes, band 41 is very common. It is from the flagella of a spirochete, and many of us have dental spirochetes in our mouths.  It is also nearly universal in Lyme patients.

If you want to try to convince a doctor to give you abx for Lyme, then do some research and find a believable source that describes Band 18 as Lyme specific.  The protein is referred to as 18kDa. Our immune systems make an antibody to this protein when it realizes it is foreign. It is this antibody that displays a visual "band" on a Western Blot.

You mentioned that band 31 is positive is more common with people that have Neurological problems , Maybe thats not only specific with Lymes , I have neuro symptoms because of Benzo related , maybe thats why the Band 31 came back positive, theres NO 100% guranteed fact its Lymes ? its only a Clinical Diagnouses .

Band 18 defination says UNKNOWN , then why didnt it say LYME , if they are 100% sure its an active Lyme, that report is from Igentics , it says UNKNOWN on 18 and 58
.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
This article from the NYT is hardly investigative journalism:  it simply repeats the IDSA position that Lyme is rare, hard to get, and easy to cure, and if you still have symptoms, it's because your immune system is (over)reacting to a long-gone infection.

This article is also 7 years old, but nothing has changed at the IDSA that I can perceive.

You seem very anxious about all of this, which is normal and rational, given the mess that the so-called 'mainstrem' medical profession is making of the whole Lyme thing.  The 'flat-earthers' are still in charge.

You are free to take the couple of weeks of antibiotics for Lyme, skip the tests for coinfections that you likely won't be offered by an IDSA-type doc, and see how it goes.  If you are still sick after that treatment, then you have a choice:  (1) accept misery or (2) look further afield, for example to the ILADS approach.

There is no final answer that you will find, because there is a split in the medical community, and you will have to decide for yourself what the right thing is to do.  Someday this will be solved, but not this week or this year or perhaps for some years to come, because the IDSA hierarchy has a stranglehold on what is 'accepted' in diagnosis and treatment in the infectious disease world.

Doctors are simply human, however much some of them may think otherwise, and sadly it is the patients who pay the price for doc's arrogance and stubborness.  Lack of humility is often a problem for those entrusted with others' lives and well-being, because if a doc can't trust himself and his training, then there is nothing but a vast field of emptiness.  

Well, welcome to the universe:  vast fields of emptiness.  We just have to figure out what to do for ourselves, and in Lyme, the first decision is whether to find and be diagnosed and treated by an LLMD.  It's really up to you.  There are no hard and fast and final answers at this point, because the IDSA vs ILADS war is still raging.

I know how hard it is to deal with the situation, because not only is it contrary to our expectations of medicine, but Lyme also impairs one's brain chemistry and hormones, thus affecting mood and giving one a sense of impending doom and fear and insecurity.  It's just part of Lyme.

You will in my experience not find one single, unifying answer at this point about what to do.  Someday, yes, but what do you do today and tomorrow?  You have to decide that now, and just know that it's the best you can do, and in fact, the best anyone can do given the state of medicine today.

Sorry not to be able to prove to you which camp is right, but science, like life, is messy -- and Lyme is a really big mess right now.  Deciding which road to take because the map is unclear doesn't mean you just keep driving down the road you chose -- you have to keep checking the signs and looking for familiar landmarks, and if you discover you went down the wrong treatment road, you turn around and go back.  It's all you can do.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Thank you again, unfortuantly I am stuck between a rock and a hard shell, I am dealing with Benzo w/d that has the exact same symptoms as Lymes , except Benzo recovery happens on its own , I read abt band 58 , which came back positve on mine , it does reflect  me gng through Benzo w/d , my body is in  termoil with unknown symptoms that cant even be explained because of Down regulation of Gaba receptors that need to grow back it takes 2-3 yeras to do so, Dr Eva Sapi went through Benzo w/d it took her 3 years to recover too. Band 31 applies to neurological symptoms which I have as a result to Benzo w/d , so maybe thats why it came back positive, band 18 if that is so specific to Lyme then why on the Igentics report theres NO double starred *** by it , or any mention of if you have band 18 positive then you have Lyme , there was NOTHING mentioned abt band 18 , other then if you have 2 starr band *** then you have Lyme , which band 18 isnt even considered, , band 41 can be contributed to anyone , and band 58 is unknow and not specificto Lyme, thats the bands I had , so maybe that my tests came back postive because of all the symptoms my body is enduring because of Benzo w/d and NOT related to Lyme , I NEVER EVER had any of theese symptoms in my ENTIRE life until I stopped that medication which is very well known as Dr EVA SAPI went through herself, she wrote me and said my tests result are INCONCLUSIVE!!!! , and CONTROVERSIAL , and shes a Lyme specialist , dont matter if shes active or not , from what I can tell via e-mail she still is active in the Lyme community. The reason I question this over and over taking ANY Antibiotics can cause my Gaba RECEPTORS TO STOP UPREGULATING BECAUSE OF REVERASBLE DAMAGE the Benzos DID . Sorry for caps , I never ever had fatiqueness, flu-like symptoms, cognitive problems , mental issues cog fog , other then worries abt this now and gng through benzo w/d with all the severe pain that I cant even take a tynenol to help as it doesnt even touch this , been dng this for almost 2 years, all the symptoms I am having , I had them from the beginning, I had someone that pushed and pushed me to get a Lyme test , almost taunted me , thats why I did it, not because I even thought I had been bitten as I dont go out to wooded areas, not much of an outdoor person at all .
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Where is it written on the Igentics report that band 18 is specfic to Lyme , its not once mention its a marker for Lyme , why ist it a double starr band if its such a highly marker for Lyme , theres are valid question, thankyou , just looking for answers, thats prob why dr eva sapi said its inconclusive especially for my case gng though benzo w/d
Blank
1530171_tn?1362547225
Hi Laura.
You are so right. This is so confusing, sometimes contradictory and
often controversial.
I believe that Lyme Disease, in regards of Dx and treatment, is still
in its infancy (some people would say still in the Dark Ages and I don't blame them for feeling this way.)

Even CDC Western Blot IgG surveillance criteria include #18, #23, #30, #37, #39 and #93 antibodies (bands).

Please go to "western blots made easy" or go to the "public health alert"
online magazine for a very thorough article on western blots, June 2007 issue.
There's plenty of info on Lyme Disease, if you want to shift through the  archived issues.

I agree with Jackie. The media intentionally, often leave out key information,
to suit their purposes totally ignoring some important facts.
That article was completed flawed.

Hugs!
Niko
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Hi Everyone, I was d/x with Lyme 2 weeks ago , its been a very scarey process and I am in total shock I have Lymes, I just had a CD57 test done  the numbers came back 57 L , I am still not sure what all this means, I spoke to Dr Harris at Igentics he said sometimes the test of IgG , IgM can come back a false positive , Band 31 can be a false positive, he did say 18 is not as revelant nor 58, he said most have band 41, he also told me that the results of my test are pretty good incomparison to alot of patients that are d/x with Chronic Lyme, he told me mine are fairly Low results, he suggested I get Code 488 done , to see if band 31 is a false negative , the CD57 was done at Labcorp. Anyways I seen a LLMD in Buffalo NY , yesterday she was the clsoest one to the Candian Border , she told me she wasnt gng to see me if I never got a test done by a naturalpathic Dr for Detox , a toxicity testing , along with Neuro testing , these test cost almost $1000.00 , this is crazy , whats that got to do with Lymes? anyways she wasnt gng to give me anything to take to help with the Lymes , I suggested taht she give me something cause I wanted to try something , she gave me a script for Biaxin , 2x at nite for 30 days , and told me that if it doesnt work theres nothing she can do , taht I probably will get sick and it wont even work at all, she said until I get thattest then she will know what direction to take, is this a common procedure? or is it a money making thing ? I am in a loop as to wht to try or to take , I am really scared even more cause I dont know if I should take the antibiotics, any advice is helpful thank you , I know you cant advise me abt medication , but I would like to know if her procedure standard? txs  
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Despy,  so sorry you are getting such contradictory data ... but unfortunately that is not uncommon when it comes to Lyme.

The doc who gave you the prescription sounds like she doesn't 'believe' in the seriousness of Lyme, and docs who hold that point of view can get really irritated when patients are asking for treatment that an LLMD would give (mainly long-term antibiotics).  It's nothing against you personally, it's the aggravation that nonLLMDs feel when they are up against a theory of Lyme diagnosis and treatment that simply do not believe it.  I am sure this doc believes she is doing the right thing, and it really makes docs cranky to be asked to treat in a manner that they do not believe is appropriate.  I understand that approach, but it doesn't help the poor ailing patient:  you.

I don't know what those tests are that the doc is insisting on, but it doesn't sound like the approach my LLMD took or the diagnosis and treatment approach an ILADS doc would use.

I don't know what a 'Code 488' test is -- I looked on line just now and it seems to relate to ... bird flu diagnosis --?!  From your account of the call with IGeneX explaining the tests, it pretty much makes sense to me.  But you need a doc to know how to read the tests and what treatment to recommend, if any, so you're going to need a good Lyme doc in any event.

You should have an MD you feel comfortable with who knows what tests to order (so you don't waste time and money and energy) and who can explain the results and the options to you after that.  If you are not comfortable with your current doc, then finding another one is what I would do.  Those who practice in the Lyme area are a mixed bag, and sometimes it's just not a good match.  Lyme is a developing area of medicine, so there are bound to be docs who are a bit unorthodox, and if you're not comfortable, then another doc may be called for.

That's what I would do.  A number of people here have gone to self-designated "LLMDs", and had not so good experiences ... remember that LLMD is not an official designation, they don't have to 'believe' in a particular approach to diagnosing, testing and treating, and so you may have to try another.  I'm not medically trained, nor is anyone here that I know of, so we're only able to tell you our own gut reactions based on our own experiences.

Sorry if that's not helpful -- but I understand your distress.  If you want to know what I would do personally, I would find another LLMD and try again.  Take care, sorry to be a downer here.  Let us know what you do and how it goes, okay? -- Best wishes to you --
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I am sure you must have mixed feelings about the diagnosis. Probably shock and relief at the same time.

I do not know what tests your doctor is insisting on. I have never heard of them. I had the full Lyme panel and full coinfection panel done at IgeneX (I asked my primary doc to authorize them and she did) and my LLMD did not ask for any additional tests. I was diagnosed with Lyme and Bart from those tests.

Given that IgeneX says that band 31+41 can cross react with a certain virus, I suppose the test he recommended is to look further for that other virus. If you don't have it, then you could presume the band 31 to be triggered by Lyme.  The CD57 really clinches it for you, though. You already have more evidence of Lyme than I did. I wouldn't want to pay for any more tests unless you really feel you need them.

Biaxin does indeed treat Lyme, but it isn't usually the first abx given. And it is usually prescribed along with Plaquenil, which can make the Biaxin up to 40% more effective at getting to intracellular infections.  I personally would take the Biaxin to get started while I began looking for a new doctor.  An ILADS affiliated doctor is your best bet (although that is no guarantee either...find one you're comfortable with).
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
thank you, I feel time is ticking away, and the longer it's taking to get treated the more chances I can't be cured. This dr I went to is assigned to iILADS , she apparently is a LLMD , my husband had spoken to someone that was a patient of hers that was out in the parking lot and told him she was seeing her for about a year now and she was getting better. I just don't know who to trust anymore. my story was from trusting a dr to treat a symptom non related to Lyme , a female thing , but instead gave me a script for Benzodiapine for wrongly d/x that caused me to have severe neurological symptoms after stopping it c/t , which there are thousands and thousands and literally thousands of others that had the same reaction that also eventually recovered  2-3 years later, Dr Eva Sapi which is well known to the Lyme community went through exactly what I went through , it took her 3 years to recover from what the script done to our GABA receptors , anyways that LLMD I seen a few days ago said because of my sensitivity to medication and supplements because of the compromised immune system that was caused from that medication , that she feels she needs to have me do a detox generics testing , it's something to do with toxicity , ???? Anyways she did give me that other script , but I never got it , as my family dr in Canada rewrote the script because I am from Canada and my appointment was in buffalo, I just got my family dr to re-prescribe the script so I can get it filled in Canada, the one I got is the bixain , but I never got the other filled , I and my family dr felt it wasn't required as it was a script for rumathisism arthritis , I don't have that I was tested for that and don't ave any arthritis at all. Dr Harris also told me that my results were less of a d/x then most , he said it's very low chances of Lyme , and for me not to worry and that I was to be careful what I read on the Internet as it can be very negative and scary , he said everyone has a story and everyone else's story is not mine . I am gng to get the antibiotic today but I am really scared to take it, as I am still gng through BEnzo recovery it just makes it harder to get through this , I took one pill last June of penicillin for a pimple that was close to my eye , I had a severe reaction , my throat felt like it was swollen for two days , but it wasn't really swollen , I had no allergic reaction just a symptom from BEnzo w/d was flaring up more , now I have this symptom as if my spinal cord is being compressed and feels like there's no fluids inside  me , my neck, and throat and shoulders and face are extremely tight , my bones feel swollen, I feel like I am full of inflammation , my hands and fingers feel extremely fat , but it's all a sensation , I have no visual signs of any inflammation as all tests come back normal, so I am afraid that when I take the antibiotic I will choke to death , that's what I am afraid of , she wants me to take 1000 mg at once , 2pils 500 mg each , what if I choke to death , that my throat gets tighter , she told me that LLMD said I might get sicker or it mighten work and there's nothing she can do for me , my family dr here in Canada don't know nothing about Lymes , I can't find another LLMD that fast, I am really scared what to do .
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
has anyone tried the cowden protocol With any sucess
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Could you use paragraph breaks when you post?  It usually doesn't bother me, but I am having a hard time following your post because it's all jammed together.  I've pasted it below with some specific comments inserted fwiw:
========================
"thank you, I feel time is ticking away, and the longer it's taking to get treated the more chances I can't be cured. "

==>  You can be treated even long after the infection began.

"This dr I went to is assigned to iILADS , she apparently is a LLMD , "

==>  No one is assigned to ILADS -- it is a voluntary group for docs who think more progressive thoughts about Lyme and its co-infections.  

==>  There are no exams given for a doc to join ILADS, and they do not all adhere to the same approaches or beliefs.  "LLMD" is not an official title and there is no 'LLMD accreditation board' that tests or admits docs to ILADS or to be an LLMD.

==>  As a result, because Lyme diagnosis and treatment is still in its infancy, docs are all over the place on diagnosis and treatment, and some of the LLMDs I wouldn't let treat my pet parakeet.  Your doc can call herself an LLMD but that doesn't mean she knows what she's doing.  If you are uncertain or unhappy with treatment, then see another doc.

"my husband had spoken to someone that was a patient of hers that was out in the parking lot and told him she was seeing her for about a year now and she was getting better."

==>  That's good, but the doc might not be the right one for YOU.  All docs have blind spots, and a second opinion from another doc is not a bad thing.

"that LLMD I seen a few days ago said because of my sensitivity to medication and supplements because of the compromised immune system that was caused from that medication , that she feels she needs to have me do a detox generics testing , it's something to do with toxicity"

==>  If you are uncertain of this, get another opinion.

"Anyways she did give me that other script , but I never got it , as my family dr in Canada rewrote the script because I am from Canada and my appointment was in buffalo, I just got my family dr to re-prescribe the script so I can get it filled in Canada, the one I got is the bixain , but I never got the other filled , I and my family dr felt it wasn't required as it was a script for rumathisism arthritis , "

==> I would call the prescribing doc and ask why the second drug was prescribed.  If your hometown doc doesn't know anything about Lyme, then I would not necessarily trust him to know what meds to treat Lyme with.  At the same time, if your LLMD is not a good one, then find another LLMD.

"I don't have that I was tested for that and don't ave any arthritis at all."

==>  Sometimes meds are used for other than their primary purpose.  Ask the LLMD.

" Dr Harris also told me that my results were less of a d/x then most , he said it's very low chances of Lyme , and for me not to worry and that I was to be careful what I read on the Internet as it can be very negative and scary , he said everyone has a story and everyone else's story is not mine ."

==>  If this doc is not a specialist in Lyme, then he may be totally off base.  I would see another LLMD.

"I am gng to get the antibiotic today but I am really scared to take it, as I am still gng through BEnzo recovery it just makes it harder to get through this , I took one pill last June of penicillin for a pimple that was close to my eye , I had a severe reaction"

==>  Did you tell the LLMD that?

" , my throat felt like it was swollen for two days , but it wasn't really swollen , I had no allergic reaction just a symptom from BEnzo w/d was flaring up more ,"

==>  how does this relate to the apparent penicillin allergy?

" now I have this symptom as if my spinal cord is being compressed and feels like there's no fluids inside  me , my neck, and throat and shoulders and face are extremely tight , my bones feel swollen, I feel like I am full of inflammation , my hands and fingers feel extremely fat , but it's all a sensation , I have no visual signs of any inflammation as all tests come back normal,"

==>  I would call the LLMD and report this

" so I am afraid that when I take the antibiotic I will choke to death , that's what I am afraid of , she wants me to take 1000 mg at once , 2pils 500 mg each , what if I choke to death , that my throat gets tighter ,"

==> call the LLMD for guidance

she told me that LLMD said I might get sicker or it mighten work and there's nothing she can do for me , my family dr here in Canada don't know nothing about Lymes , I can't find another LLMD that fast, I am really scared what to do .

==> call the LLMD for guidance

=============================================
We've all been in the wilderness when it comes to Lyme diagnosis and treatment, and it's worse for some than others.  If you don't trust your doc, then find another.  Yes, it costs money, but it's terribly expensive to be ill and untreated.

Sorry if I sound unsympathetic, but truly it's the opposite -- I know what it's like to be frightened and confused by the mess that the medical profession is in.  Being anxious and afraid is part of the Lyme infection -- it affects your mind and your emotions.  

Try very hard for 20 minutes to put the fear away and think what you would do if it were your best friend who is in this confusing situation and what you would advise her to do.  Then do it.

Take care -- we all wish you the best --
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
The other prescription that you and your local doc thought you didn't need, the one for rheumatoid arthritis, that was most likely Plaquenil.  It is a drug commonly prescribed for people with rheumatoid arthritis and lupus, but it doesn't really treat arthritis, per se.  It makes your body more alkaline, which can ease inflammation, especially in connective tissue. This is why it is so helpful for conditions with inflamed connective tissue, such as RA, Lupus, and Lyme. By making the cells more alkaline, the Biaxin (the anyibiotic) can better penetrate the cells to get to the infection inside.

I would really encourage you to stick with your LLMD for awhile. Make sure you ask whatever questions you need to ask and express whatever doubts you may have directly to her. By not taking one of the two medications, you are unknowingly reducing the effectiveness of your treatment. Plus, you'll probably feel better as the Plaquenil eases inflammation over time.

Because of your benzo withdrawal, you may have a different experience with some medications than others. Just give it some time, keep your doctor informed, and make sure you know what each medication is for. (Depending on your symptoms, your reaction to the penicillin could have been an allergic reaction or it could have been a herxheimer reaction. While oral penicillin isn't used to treat Lyme, it can kill some spirochetes, causing a herx.)

Hang in there and take it one step at a time. I know it is scary. I actually took anti -anxiety meds for a while, even though I am not typically an anxious person. They really helped.  And try soothing remedies, like Epsom salt baths.
Blank
1530171_tn?1362547225
Hi Laura.
I'm sure the last thing you need is more medical mumbo jumbo technical
stuff!! lol!
ABX are not the silver bullet for LD. It's thru trial and error, die-offs and remissions, months or years of treatment with NO guarrantees!
I think your LLMD is on to something though, by asking those tests.
The idea that this is an extra money grab, doesn't make a lot of  sense to me, even if there's the possibility of this.
I think it has to do your particular situation and the biaxin is just a test.
Either it's going to work or it's gonna mess up things for you so badly that you can't do it
There are some serious considerations before you can get started on antibiotics.
1. You may have a serious adverse reaction because of your benzo issues.
2. Your immune system may be compromised by other factors,
such as emotional distress (it is a hugely overlooked factor), toxicity, impaired lymph function and othefactors..
3. Intestinal flora has to be at healthy levels before ABX, as almost 80%
of the immune system lies within the gut.
I developed Pharmacophobia -lol!- after witnessing the extensive use of injectible ABX treatments on my 2 siblings, who both consequently developed chronic conditions and never quite recovered.

You may go to various forums to get opinions from people who have used the Cowen protocol. The numbers here are very limited to get  much feedback on this. mdjunction might be one of them to try.
Personally, I agree with Jackie, that You must feel good with the LLMD.
it is going to be a long term relationship and it is so important to feel right.
Also, you have to feel right about the treatment. And right now, you don't feel right at all with all this, for good reasons
My gut feeling is to go with the alternative protocol. That's what I would have chosen myself, if I were in your situation.
First, make sure that the herbs and natural remedies they suggest are safe for you. Natural doesn't necessarily means safe! Natural substances do contain chemicals, and they also bring about herx effects, just like the ABX
treatment would.
So, do a little homework and get some answers, before you decide anything.
Are there any alternative practitioners  in Ajax who do "Autonomous Response Testing" or" Muscle testing"? (if you're open to this)
It's like prescreening the remedy for safety by  dose, frequency etc.
Some herbalists, energy medicine practitioners use this testing for their clients.For some reason, I have never gotten a positive for any prescribed medication for anyone I tested for.
I'm still at work. Gotta run!
Wish you well!
Niko

Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Can Lyme cause severe SENSATION of Inflammation and all TESTS come back 100% NORMAL , I am dealing with chronic Inflammation Literally ALL over my entire body , ears, hands , fett etcc..... even in my mouth , NOT one place thats on my body not feel inflammed , its so intense its causing bone and nerve pain, can LYME cause severe INFLAMMATION this bad ALL OVER MY ENTIRE BODY !!!! and still test come back NORMAL? This is the main symptom I have , the SEVERE inflammtion ,if that was gone I wouldnt have any bone or nerve pain at all, the bone pain is all over as the inflammation symptom . Very sensative to Meds , I am not sure what my options are .... I have NO other symptoms beside this ... any thoughts...??? thank you
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Dr Harris also told me that my results were less of a d/x then most , he said it's very low chances of Lyme , and for me not to worry and that I was to be careful what I read on the Internet as it can be very negative and scary , he said everyone has a story and everyone else's story is not mine ."

==>  If this doc is not a specialist in Lyme, then he may be totally off base.  I would see another LLMD.


Dr Harris is from  Igentix , he owns that labratory
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Ah, THAT Dr Harris.

He's right in what he says.  Everybody is different, and no one can diagnose you over the phone anyway.

Clearly there is something going on with you, and the trick is to find a doc who will walk through all the possibilities with you and do the tests that seem reasonable.  I know that doesn't give you any answers, but this is just a website and we're not docs.

Someplace like the Cleveland Clinic may be able to help, since they are well known for their expertise (and may be relatively close to you), or if you want to be sure it's not tick-related, think about going to NYC to Columbia University's Lyme research center.

Sometimes teaching and research hospitals are good places to go with complicated and mysterious ailments, but not always:  it depends on the docs themselves.

I agree with Rico above:  I wouldn't take only one of two prescriptions -- each one has a different purpose.  That may be one reason you are hurting all over so much.

About the bands and which ones mean what, there is some difference of opinion in the medical community, so if you've seen somewhere that band 18 doesn't mean Lyme, then that is someone's opinion.  If all this stuff were figured out already, we wouldn't be on a website trying to piece it together for ourselves, right?

Sorry not to be more help -- rather than try to freelance this yourself, I would keep looking to find an LLMD I could work with and felt comfortable with.  I went through 20+ docs before one of them finally tested me for Lyme, and once I had that test, I took it to an LLMD and got diagnosed also for a co-infection, then was treated for both.

I understand how awful and desperate you must feel, because I've been there, but rather than try to diagnose it yourself, I would in your situation find a doc I felt I could work with and go from there.  Taking bits and pieces of opinions from all over is not going to give you usable answers, because unless you're a doc, you don't have the background to integrate it all into an action plan.  

We all wish you well --
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
thank you very much
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Was woundering your thoughts >>>> \When Igentics do a Lyme test are they measuring the Chemical in our brain/body, what is it their actually measuring any thoughts on this? Do anyone here have just nerve, neuropathy only with the Lyme? thank you
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
To my understanding, IGeneX can run the standard Western blot/ELISA combo test, but many docs use LabCorp because they are comfortable that it is reliable.

What IGeneX can do (that other labs can't) is a PCR test that looks for Lyme bacteria DNA in the blood and not your immune system reaction to Lyme bacteria (which is what W.blot and ELISA look for).  Therefore the PCR is a direct test; W.blot and ELISA are indirect tests and are less certain.

I think of it as looking for a burglar in your house:

Western blot/ELISA will show you a stranger's footprints on your carpet, but PCR will give you a photo of the burglar standing in your living room.

[Anybody, please correct me if I'm wrong here.]
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
... and to your other question:

some people get more nervous-system involvement from Lyme than others do.  

Depends on the strain of Lyme, on your own immune system, and on the interference from other infections (babesia, bartonella, etc.) that you may also have, as well as possible other factors.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
This is the latest test I did suggested by Dr Harris from Igentixs

Note: If a patient’s Western Blot is positive by either IgM or IgG and has only
bands 31 and 41kDa, there is a chance that it is a false positive due to presence
of antibodies to viruses or other spirochetes. Therefore, confirmation of band
31kDa is recommended – Test 488 for IgM and Test 489 for IgG. Addition of this
test improves specificity to greater than 97%.

Code 488 is the one he suggested
Blank
1530171_tn?1362547225
Jackie you are right on ...well almost.
The photo proving that the burglar has there was actually generated
by amplification (making millions of copies) of his small DNA sample, found on the beer bottle. lol!
"POLYMERASE" is the enzyme  involved in the DNA duplication when a cell divides.
The duplicated DNA in the PCR testing is used as a template,
for mass replication, starting a "CHAIN REACTION" that will produce-thru multiple stages- millions of  DNA copies, useful for identifying, difficult to detect micro-organisms.
This PCR testing alone, sets IgeneX apart from other labs for effectiveness and accuracy.

Neuropathy and other neurological involvement would be impossible
to attribute directly to LD, in the presence -or just suspicion- of other
co-infections or conditions.
LD, the great imitator, can really complicate one's life, by mimicking any
disease-or just about.

On a different note, this thread is getting too long.
Could someone please start a new one, where this can
be continued?
Take care.
Niko





Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Laboratory testing

Several forms of laboratory testing for Lyme disease are available, some of which have not been adequately validated. The most widely used tests are serologies, which measure levels of specific antibodies in a patient's blood. These tests may be negative in early infection, as the body may not have produced a significant quantity of antibodies, but they are considered a reliable aid in the diagnosis of later stages of Lyme disease.[83] Serologic tests for Lyme disease are of limited use in people lacking objective signs of Lyme disease because of false positive results and cost.[84]

The serological laboratory tests most widely available and employed are the Western blot and ELISA. A two-tiered protocol is recommended by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC): the sensitive ELISA test is performed first, and if it is positive or equivocal, then the more specific Western blot is run.[85] The reliability of testing in diagnosis remains controversial.[3] Studies show the Western blot IgM has a specificity of 94–96% for patients with clinical symptoms of early Lyme disease.[86][87] The initial ELISA test has a sensitivity of about 70%, and in two-tiered testing, the overall sensitivity is only 64%, although this rises to 100% in the subset of people with disseminated symptoms, such as arthritis.[88]

Erroneous test results have been widely reported in both early and late stages of the disease, and can be caused by several factors, including antibody cross-reactions from other infections, including Epstein-Barr virus and cytomegalovirus,[89] as well as herpes simplex virus.[90] The overall rate of false positives is low, only about 1 to 3%, in comparison to a false negative rate of up to 36% using two-tiered testing.[88]

Polymerase chain reaction (PCR) tests for Lyme disease have also been developed to detect the genetic material (DNA) of the Lyme disease spirochete. PCR tests are susceptible to false positive results from poor laboratory technique.[91] Even when properly performed, PCR often shows false negative results with blood and cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) specimens.[92] Hence, PCR is not widely performed for diagnosis of Lyme disease, but it may have a role in diagnosis of Lyme arthritis, because it is a highly sensitive way of detecting ospA DNA in synovial fluid.[93]

With the exception of PCR, there is currently no practical means for detecting the presence of the organism, as serologic studies only test for antibodies of Borrelia. High titers of either immunoglobulin G (IgG) or immunoglobulin M (IgM) antibodies to Borrelia antigens indicate disease, but lower titers can be misleading, because the IgM antibodies may remain after the initial infection, and IgG antibodies may remain for years.[94]

Western blot, ELISA and PCR can be performed by either blood test via venipuncture or CSF via lumbar puncture. Though lumbar puncture is more definitive of diagnosis, antigen capture in the CSF is much more elusive; reportedly CSF yields positive results in only 10–30% of patients cultured. The diagnosis of neurologic infection by Borrelia should not be excluded solely on the basis of normal routine CSF or negative CSF antibody analyses.[95]

New techniques for clinical testing of Borrelia infection have been developed, such as LTT-MELISA,[96] although the results of studies are contradictory, and there is no study assessing the diagnostic sensitivity and specificity of the test.[97] Others, such as focus floating microscopy, are under investigation.[98] New research indicates chemokine CXCL13 may also be a possible marker for neuroborreliosis.[99]

Some laboratories offer Lyme disease testing using assays whose accuracy and clinical usefulness have not been adequately established. These tests include urine antigen tests, PCR tests on urine, immunofluorescent staining for cell wall-deficient forms of Borrelia burgdorferi, and lymphocyte transformation tests. The CDC does not recommend these tests, and a 2005 review by Aguero-Rosenfeld, et al. in Clinical Microbiology Reviews stated their use is "of great concern and is strongly discouraged".[92]

In addition to laboratory testing on patients, ticks can be tested after removal from the host. Several laboratories perform PCR testing on live or dead ticks for a panel of tick-borne diseases, including Borrelia, Babesia, and Ehrlichia.[100]


This mentions abt the PCR testing it also can be flawed , also I read that the Western Blot also can show as a false positive to other infections ,

Erroneous test results have been widely reported in both early and late stages of the disease, and can be caused by several factors, including antibody cross-reactions from other infections, including Epstein-Barr virus and cytomegalovirus,[89] as well as herpes simplex virus.[90] The overall rate of false positives is low, only about 1 to 3%, in comparison to a false negative rate of up to 36% using two-tiered testing.[88]

I had a Cold sore at the time of testing , it meantions abt Herpies (herpes) 1 and 2 , can give a false positive
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
http://www.marioninstitute.org/biological-medicine-network/resources/videos/dr-thomas-rau-lyme-disease-talk
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Labcorp CD57 test results verses Igentics CD57 , are they both compadiable for the CD57 Results or should we just have the test done Igentics , I had my CD57 done by Labcorp are they as effective
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
dorment yes i think so..
i went off medication end of june last year by end of july my stabbing bone symptoms started.

i had a bug bit that was an pea size bull eye, no sickness, didn't spread.. black fly i thought.. then hubby got tick bit rash fever in july.

so iwas either .. it was a tick on me, or a dorment thing,as my immune system dropped when i went off the meds..

or i got it from hubbys sperm? oral sex?

IDK but this is all ridiculous  conspiracy at this point.!
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
My recent Lab work I had done ....

These are my latest test results I had done with in the past 2 weeks...I had to  FAST
Glucose serum Fasting...4.6  Normal range 3.6-4.6
CRP ...60 ...normal range  50-100
eGFR .....>90 ...normal >60
Bilirubin.12 ,,,normal..<23
sodium...139...nor..135-45
potassium...4.2..nor 3.3-5.1
chloride...102...95-108
alkaline phos...66...35-122
ALT...18....400...112-350 CH50 UNITS ....OUTER LIMITS >400
IgG SUBCLASSES
IgG1....8.20....3.82-9.29
IgG2...2.94....2.42-7.00
IgG3...0.42----0.22-1.76
IgG4....0.128...0.039--0.864

Out of all these test results it was only the CH50 Complement TOTAL was off (high)

And I just got my recent test results back from Igentixs for CO-INFECTIONS , I had the New complete panel co-infection test done , it came back NEGATIVE , they used the same blood sample I sent them for testing of Lyme and the Lyme came back Positive , but Co-Infections came back NEGATIVE , all my other test results above were done by my Family Dr , all came back Normal except the CH50 complement total, I am not sure what to think of these tests results , anyone understand the CH50 Complement total testing , I guess the Tests coming from Igentixs being Negative for c0-infections is a Positive thing as it was the same blood work they used for testing for the Lyme , and that came back positive , so the c0-infections testing must be accurate right ? I would appreciate any thoughts , thank you .

Blank
Avatar_f_tn
About half of those who test positive for Lyme do not test positive for co-infections, so yes, it is possible.

Do you know which co-infections you were tested for?
Blank
1763947_tn?1334058919
Yes, some people have to repeat the tests for co-infections several time. My Babesia took 3 tries, I knew I had it from drenching sweats and air hunger.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
test was for BABESIA MICROTI  IgM <20 NEGATIVE    IgG 160 IS NEGATIVE

EHRLICHIA ....SAME AS ABOVE

A.PHAGOCYTOPHILUM ...SAME AS ABOVE

BARTONELLA HENSELGE ...SAME AS ABOVE

Jackie when you said Yes it is possible , do that mean its possible I DO NOT have co-infections ? I speak to a friend of mine on the phone she was a MD , she had Lyme , and is very knowledgable abt Lyme , she told me that it does not sound like any of my symptoms are related to Borteilla , she said it dont even sound like I even have any co-infections based on my symptoms .
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
test was for BABESIA MICROTI  IgM <20 NEGATIVE    IgG 160 IS NEGATIVE

EHRLICHIA ....SAME AS ABOVE

A.PHAGOCYTOPHILUM ...SAME AS ABOVE

BARTONELLA HENSELGE ...SAME AS ABOVE
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
test was for BABESIA MICROTI  IgM <20 NEGATIVE    IgG <40 negative
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
My lab test was IgM was <20 , and IgG was <40 for all the co-infection tests listed above
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
These are my latest test results I had done with in the past 2 weeks...I had to  FAST
Glucose serum Fasting...4.6  Normal range 3.6-4.6
CRP ...60 ...normal range  50-100
eGFR .....>90 ...normal >60
Bilirubin.12 ,,,normal..<23
sodium...139...nor..135-45
potassium...4.2..nor 3.3-5.1
chloride...102...95-108
alkaline phos...66...35-122
ALT...18....< 36
Hemoglobin..150....115-155
hematocrit...0.45...0.33-0.45
RBC...4.69...3.60-5.01 X 10E12/L
RBC INDICATES....MCV...96....80-99
                            MCH...32....27-32
                            MCHC....333...320-360
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
RDW....13.4...11.5-15.5
WBC...7.6...4.0-11.0 X 10E9/L
PLATELETS...309...145-400X10E9/L
MPV...7.8...7.4-11.3
DIFFERENTIAL WBC'S
NEOTROPHILS  5.32...1.80-7.00 X1-0E9/L
LYMPHOCYTES 1.44...1.00-3.20 X 10E9/L
MONOCYCTES...0.61...0.00-0.80X10E9/L
EOSINOPHILS...0.08...0.00-0.40X10E9/L
BASOPHILS...0.08...0.00-0.02X10E9/L
CHEMISTRY...
HOMOCYSTEINE...8.....5-5.15
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
IgG ...12.3 .....7.2-16.9
IgA...3.13-...0.69-3.82
IgM...1.04....0.63-2.77
C3 COMPLEMENT...1.11....0.88-2.01
C4 COMPLEMENT...0.32....0.16-0.47
CH50 COMPLEMENT TOTAL....>400...112-350 CH50 UNITS ....OUTER LIMITS >400
IgG SUBCLASSES
IgG1....8.20....3.82-9.29
IgG2...2.94....2.42-7.00
IgG3...0.42----0.22-1.76
IgG4....0.128...0.039--0.864

Out of all these test results it was only the CH50 Complement TOTAL was off (high

I had to repost it , all my lab work didnt paste from the first time I posted it
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Okay, so if I understand correctly, your co-infection tests all came back negative, but your IGeneX Lyme test is positive.

Your friend, the doc who had Lyme, doesn't think you have Lyme.  Did she say why she has come to that conclusion?
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Hi Jackie, no my friend said it dont sound like symptoms I have for Bartonella, ,or babesia, coinfections, she said I probably dont have any co-infections based on my symptoms. Yes, the Lyme testing came back Positive but co-infections was negative . Dr Harris from Igentixs told me taht it dont always mean you have Lyme it means I have been exposed to deer tick , but it does notmean its symptomatic, I am trying to figure whats what with me, as I menationed it takes 2-3 years to reupregulate Gaba receptors from the damage done by Benzos, Roico meationed in a previous post it shouldnt take 2-3 years to go through withdrawl (withdrawal) from a medication , hes right it doesnt , but this is not withdrawl (withdrawal) , I am not recovering from s/x off a medication this far out, my Brain has been damaged from medication from Down regulation of GABA , and it takes 2-3 years to upregulate GABA receptors to the orginal way it was meant to be. As Dr Eva Sapi took 3 years to recover from the same medication , that was way before she ended up with Lyme , as for her she had noticed a tick bite , so she never had Lyme while on or before or after that medication. I am just trying to rule everything out before I start dng treatment for something I have or dont have , I am only looking for all possibilites and as much information as I can, I dont want to add fuel to the fire sort of speak and cause more complications then I already have. Last week I had 3 good days in a row , not exact symptom free, but alot more managble then I had been in awhile, I was even eating carbs, had a few sweets and nothing happened I never got any symptoms intenify at all, was evn dng alot of physical things , no new symptoms ever ever appears , symptoms had always been the exact same , mostly nerve pain of every fiber is active , almost like I have small fiber neuropathy , its evry inch literally all over my entire body , mouth , nose, ears, eyes, sensative ares everywhere, its been coming and gng with intensity every day, I feel like I have inflammation all over every inch of my body , all tests came back normal as I posted my lab work I had recently , then its the bones feel like their swollen if that makes any sense, I go on the site where I was orginally for Benzo support group and I noticed people just off at the 2 years mark and experiencing just recently more intense symptoms and new symptoms as far off as I am , there are lots , a few from the UK , that never been exposed to Lyme in their arae at all is also dng badly this far out as I am, so I just dont know what to think is it Lyme or Benzos I am dealing with , or is it a syrinx I have in my neck , which I had an MRI done it is the exact same size it was in 2005 . Its called a syrinxomelia , something spelled like that.  
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Oh my, you really are going through a lot.  I am so sorry!  But good for you for continuing to pursue answers and solutions.  

About Lyme in the UK:  it really is there, just as it is in the US and elsewhere, but the National Health Service in the UK is like the IDSA here:  they don't want to believe it, so they don't.  A quick search for 'lyme disease uk' brings up many sites and articles.

Good for you for continuing to work on figuring out what to do and how to get better.  As complicated as Lyme itself is, it sounds like you are carrying even more issues.  I have not, in the years I've been posting here, seen anyone with a situation like you describe.  A quick google search on the subject of benzos and downregulation etc. as you mention brings up many things, some going back 20+ years, so the situation you describe is not new to the medical world, tho the docs seem in general to have difficulty too often in integrating Lyme with other symptoms and conditions.

I wish I had information to pass along, but you've mentioned Harris at IGeneX and Eva Sapi and others, and they are certainly the experts in the field as far as I know -- so it sounds like you are pressing ahead on all fronts already.

Best wishes to you -- let us know how you progress and what you figure out, okay?  
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Thank you Jackie, I will keep you posted , I was also wondering what your thoughts on the Negative test results I had from Igentixs for co-infections , do you think its a false negative even though they used the exact same blood work they tested me for Lyme? or it can possibly be a definate negative ?  I would appreciate your thoughts on this . I will keep you posted hun txs again xxxx
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Jackie can Lyme cause degenerative changes in our spine in such a short time, cause disk bulging , etc.... or can it just be normal wear and tear of our back? txs hun , also


Thank you Jackie, I will keep you posted , I was also wondering what your thoughts on the Negative test results I had from Igentixs for co-infections , do you think its a false negative even though they used the exact same blood work they tested me for Lyme? or it can possibly be a definate negative ?  I would appreciate your thoughts on this . I will keep you posted hun txs again xxxx
.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Unfortunately I haven't done any reading on spine problems from Lyme -- it does like to live in cartilage and other areas of blood flow, but perhaps someone else here can speak to that point.

If I understand your question correctly, I don't think the different tests IGeneX ran on your blood would affect each other -- when blood is drawn for different tests, the tests are run on different samples of the blood, not all mixed together, as I understand the process.  Therefore the results would not depend on what the other tests were.  Does that make sense?
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Glad most of your blood work is good. That is a very good sign. But it doesn't mean much in regards to whether or not you have Lyme. It is very unlikely that an IGeneX positive would be a false positive. (You can't put much into what Dr. H says over the phone as he can't examine or diagnose you. He can only speak in generalities. You are not a generality. You are a specific individual with your own history and symptoms.) )

That is a very good sign that you tested negative on coinfections. Lyme is easier to treat without any coinfections. And if your MD friend who knows Lyme well says you don't seem to have symptoms of coinfections, that is also a big plus.

From my understanding, Babesia and Bartonella are the two most likely coinfections to produce a false negative.  They can be "hidden" until some time into Lyme treatment when they flare up and show symptoms. Many people have initially tested negative for either of these and then later, tested positive.  Even the CDC acknowledges that Babesia is hard to find in lab tests. And a national expert on Bartonella at North Carolina State is working on a new culture test because Bart is known for false negatives.

I was lucky. The only evidence I showed of Bart was a lot of neuro Lyme symptoms, lots of GI problems, and anxiety. All can be attributed to Lyme, so I am glad I showed up on the b. henselae test.

At this point, you can set the issue of coinfections aside. If you proceed with Lyme treatment and a few months in find some new symptoms consistent with a coinfection, them definitely get retested.  Otherwise, just say "Whew, dodged that bullet."

You do have the complexity of recovering GABA receptors. I would guess that Lyme is somehow complicating your presentation because of that. You may never find a doctor who can tell you how Lyme behaves in a person with this issue, as there might not be any others out there just like you. That is one of the tricky things about Lyme, everyone has their own unique history and presentation.

Knowing how Lyme just gets worse over time (in spite of short term variations in symptoms), I would encourage you to go with the positive Lyme results and start treatment. I don't think you can compare yourself to other Benzo patients anymore as you are different. You show Lyme antibodies.

I did notice that your general immune system numbers (esp the IgG counts) are on the low end of normal. That was true for me, too. An allergist/ immunologist ran these basic immune tests on me as I was headed downhill with weird symptoms last year, and he pronounced my immune system "stone cold normal."  We'll, in hindsight, I realized that "stone cold suppressed" was a much more accurate description.  Both Lyme and the short courses of prednisone I had previously been given were suppressing my immune system.

Hang in there. I remember when I was also in that stage of wondering if I really had Lyme and whether or not to jump into the deep end of treatment and the costs associated with that. It can seem daunting. But as someone who has been there, I can only say how glad Zi am to have made the decision to go to my LLMD and get treated. I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel and know I am really going to feel good again, soon!
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
And I forgot to mention, if you Google "Lyme syrinx" you will see other cases of links between Lyme and a syrinx. (I saw a patient"s post about Lyme-like symptoms and a syrinx on another message board before.)

Also, I have seen many anecdotal stories about Lyme patients who developed degenerative discs (or worsening discs) after getting Lyme. There does seem to be a connection.  Lyme is well known to like low oxygen environments, especially connective tissue, and spinal discs are indeed connective tissue.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
thanks , I am struggling to know what treatment to go with, I ordered samanto and found there's a link to quinolones , that can cause tendon damage , it's derieved rom the same plant , I am so scared , every day the pain is getting worst , I am gng out of my mind with this pain , my LLMD appointment is not until the end of November that's thevearliest , by then it will be too late the damage will be done permanently, I have a lot of severe nerve pain
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
What do I do in the meantime waiting to get my appointment , any suggestions , I tried the doxy for two weeks , the stingig was getting worst , it's in my mouth , ears, nose ,eyes ,it's everywhere literally , it's always triggered by any stimulation is that a Lyme symptom , what else do I do
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I am so sorry... I have no idea what to suggest for you given your nerve pain. Did you ask the LLMD's office to put ou on a cancellation list to try to get in earlier?  Call them and tell them about the pain and ask what they recommend that you do. Hopefully, they'll be sympathetic.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
A suggestion:  magnesium supplements.

I just searched

                   magnesium nerve pain

and got a fair number of links.  I found magnesium to be VERY helpful with the aches and pains of Lyme etc.  There is a lot of junky magnesium on the market, and I read to look for any variety that ends in "-ate", because it is most absorbable.

For example, magnesium malate or aspartate or orotate or citrate.

I take a variety called "Magnesium CAO", which is short for citrate, asparate and orotate.  It works well for me, but everyone's body chemistry is different.  

Lyme uses up magnesium in the body, and that lack of magnesium can lead to muscle and joint aches and pains.  Others here have also used magnesium supplements, and the higher the quality, the better .... meaning, get a good brand, not just whatever is cheap.

Hope you feel better.  Let us know how it goes, okay?
Blank
1530171_tn?1362547225
Hi!
I haven't been around lately. Extremely busy!
Best way for magnesium supplementation, superior to any other method
and without any digestive issues, is Transdermal Magnesium using "Magnesium Oil".
Magnesium oil, made from MgCl (magnesium chloride) flakes and hot water 50-50. Place in plastic spray bottle when cooled down and spray all over body and rub. Avoid sensitive areas as it might sting a bit.
Leave on for 20-30 minutes and then shower.
Great way to supplement, feels good and also pain relief remedy.
Do daily for a couple weeks to build up Mg stores, then do every other day."
Cheers!
Niko
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
(Magnesium capsules are easier and work fine for me.)
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I read an article abt Healing Lyme by Vitamin C and Salt, also in that article I also read taht anyone having Lyme or any infection for that matter that their WBC is usually elavated , which is almost always possible as thats the way the body fights off any infection and increase of WBC , is that correct? Well, if so I was looking back at my Lab work before Benzos and after , it has always been in the Normal range , it has never been elavated , theres has to be some indication in our blood work that would indicate theres something gng on in our bodies if we are dealing with Lyme , it just dont make any sense especially if its an active infection right?
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Not always. My WBC level became chronic low this past winter.  

Prior to this past winer, my WBC was in normal range so too other CBC counts, but I had Lyme for 10+ years.

Blank
Avatar_f_tn
This don't make any sense, if we have an infection our bodies should show some indication through our blood work, if someone had west Nile virus, syphliss, HIV, all other infection it's Hunan nature it will show something out of the ordinary in our lab work, this don't make sense , then maybe Lyme is over rated and it's has nothing to do with Lyme and there's something else gng on besides Lyme or neuro transmitters Are off?? It's an infection in our bodies if it's Lyme ,they say people take abx for long term and start to feel good ,but when they come off it they are sick again, maybe it's because of the abx s/x and nothing to do with Lyme ,I am confused
Blank
1763947_tn?1334058919
Lyme can hide in its bio film and lay dormant for years like mine did. I was bit 20+ years ago, was sick but not enough to stop working,my blood tests were normal.  I had constant low grade fever but it wasn't until 2 years ago that I became very ill and all my blood tests were out of whack. I was in Texas, then, for 2 years, where Lyme doesn't exist (ha) so nobody could figure out what was going on. I knew I had Lyme but nobody believed me. I had to move to FL and see an LLMD who tested me with igeneX labs to get positive results for Lyme and 2 co-infections.
If you don't continue with treatment before you are cured, the bugs can go back in their biofilms and hideout for some more time before showing themselves again.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I am much like mojogal, I was sick since late 90's but well enough to work, to socializing, etc..until two years ago.

As for sick again due to abx side effects?

It still doesn't explain why they got better while on Abx.

For instance I had chronic skin slough off, peeling off, and atrophy of skin problems for ten years. I was tested negative for fungal infection, for autoimmune diseases, and for typical bacteria infections.  None of dermatological medications worked.

Then all of suddenly on Rocephin IV--it all went away.  It even impressed my dermatologist.

Now Rocephin has no immune modulators components to it, thus it does not affect immune system itself, let alone autoimmune diseases.  Rocephin also does not affect fungus.

What Rocephin does affect is bacteria with cell wall. Rocephin is cell wall inhibitor. In other word, It sort of  stripe the cell wall out of bacteria so it'll die.

So obviously I am infected with some kind of bacteria that does not show up on routine labs work.  

My dermatologist do not have any other explanation.  

When Rocephin IV was discontinued after 4 weeks, some of same atrophy symptoms of skin came back a litte. The logical explanation is infection has not been eradicated completely.

Borrelia and bartonella, few others are known to put blinders on the immune system so it does not see there are unwanted bugs in the host's body, thus no signs of "infection" in lab workup until infection works it way deeper and deeper into body.

The words what we know about Lyme disease complex is same as what we know about HIV 20 years ago...Science is way behind.
Blank
1763947_tn?1334058919
Very well said!
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Your question about how we can show normal results on blood tests that generally show signs of infection is a common assumption about the human body: that our immune system will always act a certain way when we have an infection.  Many doctors believe the same thing because that's what they were taught.

But that is just an assumption, not a proven fact. Just like it was an accepted "fact" taught in medical schools for decades that bacteria could not survive in the stomach. It was 17 years between when Dr. Barry Marshall announced his discovery of h.pylori as the bacteria that causes stomach ulcers and when the Royal College of Physicians in Australia (the country where he made his discovery) recommended testing for h.pylori in patients with suspected ulcers.  Dr. Marshall was ridiculed and dismissed for years. Now he has a Nobel Prize for his work.

Note: there are still some old timer doctors who prescribe antacids for suspected ulcers and advise their patients to avoid stress, even though it has been over 25 years since it was demonstrated that 2 weeks of abx cures most ulcers.

And there's also the example of Mad Cow Disease. Most doctors believed an infection could only be caused by a living organism, including viruses, bacteria, parasites, and fungus.  The doctor who proposed that a rogue protein could replicate in the human body and cause disease was dismissed as a crank. And yet this theory was proven right in what is now known as Variant Creuztfeld-Jacob Disease

Borrelia is not like any other bacteria we have seen before. And yet so many doctors who continue to assume that their beliefs are facts rather than assumptions refuse to consider that a human can have a chronic infection and not show expected signs of it. But Borrelia has been observed doing some amazing things, like suppressing the immune system and hiding out in places the immune system can't find it, only to reemerge later after the immune system stopped making antibodies for it.

There are some bold researchers who are now convinced that underlying, undetected infections are most likely responsible for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Multiple Sclerosis, and some other (if not all) autoimmune disorders. (Read about MS and the Faroe Islands to see how an infectious condition could be the root of MS.)

Assumptions (or expert opinions) mistakenly seen as "fact" can result in a lack of progress in scientific fields for decades. There are examples in history, archaeology, medicine, physics, and other fields. It is a human failing not restricted to medicine to adhere to what we were taught even when evidence shows up to contradict it.

With only two exceptions, every blood test I took was completely "normal" right up until I was hospitalized because I was so incredibly sick. (My exceptions are a persistent slightly below normal eGFR on my kidneys and a slightly high TSH on a thyroid panel when I was really sick.)

My WBC count was always normal, as were my general immune function tests. I was also normal on my RBC counts, on my pulmonary function tests, and in a chest x-ray even though I couldn't take a deep breath and was so breathless when talking, people had trouble understanding me. And yet zi had two neurological infections rampaging through my body causing horrible symptoms and illness. (Lyme and possibly also Bart are impeding the signals to my breathing muscles. I am just glad they weren't blocked completely, otherwise I wouldn't be here anymore!)

You can see why so many doctors were stumped in trying to figure out what was going on in my body. They were all operating on their mistaken assumptions that my test results would show expected signs of an infection if I had one. Well, finally an IGeneX Western Blot and a b.henselae test did.  

I think Max Planck was right on the money when he said:

“A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it. ”
― Max Planck

I sadly suspect that it will take an entire generational turnover in the medical field before we have widespread understanding and acceptance of tick borne diseases. Until then, we sufferers of tick borne diseases have to look out for each other, as most of the doctors out there will not.


Blank
1763947_tn?1334058919
This difference, my out of whack blood tests and others normal blood tests are what is causing most doctors to be stumped by all that Lyme and co-infections can do to an individual.
If we could make docs understand this point and take us seriously and the CDC changing their Lyme guidelines, then we might get somewhere.
I often wonder if I was able to get Lyme/Bart's/Babs treatment earlier, while in Texas, I wouldn't be so sick now.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Brilliantly said, Rico.
Blank
Post a Comment
To
Blank
Weight Tracker
Weight Tracker
Start Tracking Now
Lyme Disease Community Resources
RSS Expert Activity
242532_tn?1269553979
Blank
Emotional Eating: What Your Closet ...
8 hrs ago by Roger Gould, M.D.Blank
242532_tn?1269553979
Blank
This is Driving Your Emotional Eati...
Jul 02 by Roger Gould, M.D.Blank
5856747_tn?1403352282
Blank
Sleep Apnoea
Jun 28 by Andrew John Rynne, MDBlank
Top Infectious Diseases Answerers
Avatar_f_tn
Blank
JackieCalifornia
1763947_tn?1334058919
Blank
mojogal
Venice, FL
Avatar_f_tn
Blank
Ricobord
CA
Avatar_f_tn
Blank
cave76
4451049_tn?1387157037
Blank
Ephedra
428506_tn?1296560999
Blank
wonko