cat scratch disease at 4 myself, now my daughter and son (ages 2 and 3) appear to have Lyme!

Hi everyone,

My 22 month old daughter was recently diagnosed with Lyme after she developed a bullseyes and all of the Lyme symptoms. She was treated with antibiotics immediately, but every time she finished the course she would get more bullseyes (up to seven at a time).

Two months later my 3 year old son started showing the same symptoms, but had very different rashes. He too was put on antibiotics, as a precaution and due to his symptoms.

I've been researching non-stop to try and figure out how both could seem to have similar, but different medical problems.

Doing this led me to find that cat scratch disease, which I had at 4yrs old comes from bartonella, one of the Lyme co-infections. When I was treated (only by lancing a swollen node) noone knew it was possible to get bartonella from ticks. I grew up in NJ, on 15 acres of wooded land, and have had multiple health problems during my life that match up with both Lyme and Bartonella exactly. Only recently did I find out that any of this could be related.

Does anyone have any experience with lyme and or Bartonella being transferred from a mother to her children? Can it lay dormant in them until a period of high stress? I am going through a terrible divorce with their father and I'm sure they've felt the incredible stress. Could this have brought on their symptoms if I transmitted it to them, and could the rashes be so totally different if they have the same thing? Any help would be greatly appreciated! I'm trying hard to keep on fighting for them, but it's all so baffling and quite frankly I'm overwhlmed at the idea that I could have this and given it to my babies..

[JackieCalifornia]

Welcome to MedHelp Lyme ...

Sorry to hear about your illness and that of your family.

Not everyone gets the same rash (and maybe no rash at all) from Lyme.  I haven't had bartonella, but understand the rash may look more stripe-y compared to the Lyme rash, which (when it appears) may be round and sometimes bullseye-shaped.  I personally never had a rash at all, and didn't see a tick.

Were your children tested for both Lyme and coinfections?  The tests aren't all that reliable, but they can aid in diagnosis.  Babesiosis, Ehrlichiosis and others are also brought by 'Lyme' ticks.

What medications did they take, and for how long?

It's possible that your children each have different diseases, producing different symptoms.  It's also possible that their immune systems just react differently.

Lyme can be transmitted through the placenta, according to what I read, but it doesn't always happen -- sometimes the bacteria don't pass through the placenta -- so what matters now is what they may have, not how they got it.

Lyme infections can go dormant, to flare up as you suggest, when there is stress or even just seasonally (Lyme is said to flare up in spring and fall and I've experienced that).  Sometimes tho it's a new infection from a new bite, so your babies may have gotten bitten again.  It is summer, and Lyme is pretty much all over, not just on the East Coast, tho some MDs still cling to that notion.

You don't say what kind of MD is diagnosing and treating you and your children, but there are many MDs who think they know how to treat Lyme+, and they are following the diagnosis and treatment guidelines of the Infectious Disease Society of America (IDSA), which considers itself the premier such organization in the US.  That would be a reasonable approach, except that the IDSA's approach on Lyme is controlled by MDs who are locked into their points of view developed more than a decade ago when much less was known about Lyme.  To summarize my understanding of their work, Lyme is "hard to get and easy to cure".

There are other MDs who have (in my nonmedical opinion) paid more attention to Lyme as a disease spreading rapidly across the US, Canada and Europe (and perhaps other places also) and which has unique characteristics that make a short course of antibiotics not necessarily curative.  

Two of the characteristics I have read about are

          (1) a very slow reproductive cycle compared to 'regular' bacteria.  Since bacteria are most susceptible to antibiotics ("abx" for short) while they are dividing/reproducing, a slow reproductive cycle means that Lyme requires much longer treatment; and

          (2) Lyme bacteria have the ability, in an adverse environment, to go dormant in a so-called 'biofilm' coating that not all abx can penetrate.  In other words, a short course of the usual abx that work for most other diseases may not work for Lyme.

I have read that if treated very quickly after the bite, infection can be eliminated, but often people don't know how long ago they were bitten or even that they were -- and considering how long it takes to get an appointment with an MD who then runs tests and waits for results to figure out which diseases and therefore which antibiotics ... well, I don't put a lot of faith in that 'early treatment' approach being 100% effective.  But that's just me.  Call me jaded.

This is not to say that all infectious disease (ID) docs are not helpful; it simply depends on how much they are willing to educate themselves and not rely only on the IDSA guidelines and pronouncements.  In some states, the medical authorities are very critical of MDs who take a broadminded approach to diagnosing and treating Lyme, so the broadminded ones (sometimes called by a non-official nickname, 'Lyme Literate MDs) have to keep a low profile.  

I personally went through some 20 MDs until I found out about LLMDs and from one of them, I got a diagnosis of Lyme and a coinfection, and then I was so confused I delayed starting treatment for several months (I really wasn't thinking clearly at that point and was afraid of the meds -- if I was so sick without the meds, how bad would I be with side effects from the treatment??)  Well, I was fine on the meds and made excellent progress ... the hardest part was finding an MD who had a broad enough mind to make the diagnosis and not be afraid to treat beyond the IDSA guidelines.

So if I were in your shoes, I'd stop worrying about whether your babies got infected from you -- ticks are everywhere.  Then I'd find an LLMD and get an appointment, tell them your history and symptoms and those of your babies, and go from there.  Some LLMDs may or may not treat children; you'll have to ask, but your own LLMD might be able to recommend a pediatric LLMD that s/he is familiar with.  Here are some websites where you can start looking for a referral -- some may no longer have referral services, but you'll have to see:

ilads [dot] org
lymediseaseassociation [dot] org
truthaboutlymedisease [dot] com
lymenet [dot] org
chroniclymedisease [dot] com

You can also search online for something like "LLMD Kansas" or "LLMD Chicago" to see what you get.

Your children are lucky to have you fighting for them!  Best wishes to you and your family -- let us know how you do.