.... Crushed...

I didn't know where else to post this, I don't have anyone but one friend to turn to about things like this... So here it goes, I check my fiance's e-mails and myspace because I don't trust him fully (previous experience in other relationships).  Anyhow, it wasn't till today that I found him confessing to a girl he's stated over and over was just a friend, he's had a crush on her for a little over a year now.  I'm crushed... after everything else, this just tops it off.  I can't confront him about it, I shouldn't be "snooping" after all... but, its tearing me apart inside.

[surprisebaby]

omg...you need to confront him.  you are about to have his child and share a life!  you cannot pretend you didn't see that, but you can allow him to explain himself before putting him on the defensive side.  i sure hope you can work things out. try to stay calm.  i will be thinking about you...good luck!

[Pamed34]

Oh my gosh.....  You know what I'd do.  I'd let him think that he's got the upper hand and stay calm the rest of your pregnancy and then after the baby's born show him who's holding all the cards.  And make sure you print one of them emails and put it some where that it'll never be found until the time is right.  I am so sorry but after the baby is born you need to nip it in the butt because if not it'll continue because he'll think he's gottan away with it.  Sister let me handle him for you and he'd never do it again.(LOL)  Keep your head up.  Take care of yourself and your baby.  Don't let yourself worry because when the time is right you'll know what to do.  

[wait and see]

oh sweet heart im so sorry that you have to deal with this right now i would confront him see what he has to say for himself and just maybe you guys can get through this but try not to stress yourself yes i know easyer said than done best of luck keep us posted on how you are doing i wish you well

[Pamed34]

P.S. Don't worry about it as snooping because what's his is yours and what's yours is yours.   Take Care
Sorry for being so defensive but I've had some men like that before and you just get tried of it.  Okay take care.

[MaddysMommy14]

I know exactly how you feel and what you are going through. Just try and take a deep breathe, I know it's hard to at this point. You should confront him about it and just tell him that you and he are having a baby together, and how in the world is it going to work with him doing things like that. My husband used to do the same thing, while we were engaged, but he would flirt and he would even tell me he was going out with friends, and meet some girl out at the movies or take her somewhere. Once he had the nerve when I was pregnant with my first daughter to go and take some girl to the movies and dinner on her birthday. The sad thing is, I was on bedrest and coudn't do anything for myself, plus he forgot my birthday, but he could remember hers. I just sat him down and talked to him about it. I said if this baby or I mean anything to you, then stop being sneaky and lying to me. If you dont have the will power to stop it, then I cant trust you. He denied it of course as all men do, but after I said that, he hasnt lied to me or done anything sneaky since. I know it's really tough, and you really dont know what to do at this point in time, but try not to be too upset, It isnt good for your little one. Just talk to him about it. Everything is going to be ok, and I know its hard to believe that someone you love has done something so terrible to you. Just try and think about that little baby in there, just waiting to come out smiling at you. I hope that I helped you in some way! Love, Alyson

[mommyof3mpls]

I am so sorry you have to go through this, on top of everything else.

I went through something similiar in the beginning of my 10+ year relationship with the father of my children. I wasn't worried about getting caught snooping though. I SNAPPED! I don't know if it helped the situation, but it made me feel better.

We made it. Kinda. I mean I still don't completely trust him, even though it's been 6 years since we've had any problems like that...

I would try not to stress about this right now. Try to push it out of your mind until the baby's health is confirmed, and your financial situation is stable. Just tuck it away for now, and deal with it later, when everything is settled down.

Just my two cents...

[RockRose]

You're in an incredibly difficult spot.  You're not married,  so he isn't obligated to be faithful to you.

On the other hand,  you feel like you have a monogamous relationship,  and you are carrying his child,  and that's bullc rap about you don't have the right to "snoop".  Yes,  you do,  if he leaves his love letters in cyberspace,  you have the right to read them just as everyone else on the face of the earth who can trip through is myspace account.

Not only is he not being faithful,  he's not even being careful.

I wish you well.  This is a sad mess.

[tiredbuthappy]

i think you should confront him. then you can control the conversation. something this big is bound to come out (you won't be able to hold it in forever), and if you hold back, then chances are it'll sneak out during a fight or argument about something else. instead, you need to plan to conversation so that you can control how you start the topic and where it goes. if it comes out in a heated situation, chances are you won't say what you want to say the way you want to say it.

i am saddened to hear you have to go through this on top of everything else. know that we're here to listen, and stay strong. don't let him do this to you!!!!

[NataliesMommy]

Ok, he is not obligated to be faithful???  HUH???  They are having a baby together and, I am assuming, living together.  There is a huge committment.  

Here is something you can consider.  "honey, I was wondering.......what would you do if you found out that I had eyes for someone else?"  If he asks why, just say..."oh, I was just wondering, no real reason, just wondering."  You wont have to let him know that you know the truth and he will be busting wondering what is going on.  Always ask a million hypothetical questions.  That way, there is no confronting.  You dont deserve this, I know times have been very tough for you and this is the last thing you need.  Give him an out and see what he does.  If he leaves, he is not worth it.  Keep venting to us, we are here to help each other.  God Bless.

[RockRose]

Nataliesmommy - no,  he's not obligated to be faithful.  She really wishes he would be,  but he's not married,  nor has she insisted he marry her before getting her pregnant.  You either get this concept,  or you don't,  you can't just wish someone is obligated to be faithful because you wish you had gotten your ducks in a row before becoming pregnant.

It's awful and sad to learn that after the fact,  but that's the fact.  Truth hurts.

[ImmortalOne]

RockRose - we've been engaged for over a year, we were planning our wedding when we found out about the baby and the financial stress of my surgery was too much.  We made the joint choice at that time to put the wedding off so we could afford the doctor bills (which have amounted to more than $70,000.00 so far and are growing exponetially), and things for the baby (we have absolutely nothing, my mom bought us a crib and dresser today - our first thing).  We've been living together for more than a year and a half.

As for what I've done about it... so far, nothing.  But I think he's feeling guilty.  He got in the car when I picked him up from work and was acting really... strange?  Then said I was.  I told him I was stressed out from my first day back at work and stuff and talked about my day, that seemed to satisfy him.  I've decided I'm not going to do anything about it, for the simple reason is that she's in Mississippi and he's here in Michigan.  Should that situation change, or he thinks suddenly he's going to leave or even tries to take the baby (Like any court in hell would let him do that, trust me, I'm the supporter and responsible one)... then I'll do something about it.  For now, it could be far worse, he could be my ex husband who was seeing other people (and sleeping with 3/4 of the females we knew).  For now he is restricted enough that there is no time or place for him to "cheat".   I also look at it this way... I have more important things to worry about right now (my job, this baby, and my two daughters, as well as myself) to worry and stress myself out more over something I learned a long time ago; all men leave eventually and no matter who came into my life there would be no choice of them over my children (to include an unborn one).

[AndiJ78]

I believe there is an expectation of faithfullness if there is cohabitation or a baby in the picture, but as RockRose put it, there is no real obligation.  Now that doesn't make this any less hurtful, not to mention it is a really bad time for even a hint of infidelity to pop up.

I am not one who sits idley by and plays a game. I am one who will confront the situation. You need to know now where things atand. You need to sit down, don't beat around the bush. Tell him exactly what you saw, how it made you feel and discuss where to go from there. I absolutely hate game playing BS. Be a grown up, you are pregnant you need to set an example for your baby.

From that point on you decide where things go and how your life continues. If you expect monogamy, get married. Otherwise accept that he may not see this as a serious relationship, despite the baby and the home sharing. While it is entirely possible to have a mongamous relationship without having that piece of paper, I am firm believer in marriage, especially when you have children. Not a moral thing, just a personal belief that there is a certain degree of security that comes with that marriage license.

[RockRose]

Immortalone - no,  all men don't in fact,  leave eventually.    My parents,  and my husband's parents,  are still married.  I'm still married after 21 years.  My sister is married after 28 years,  my brother after 15.  My husband's brother has been married 30 years.  

I am not trying to kick you while you're down,  but rather,  give you  hope.  No,  not all marriages break up,  and if you pick the right guy and in fact INSIST on being married before you get pregnant,  (or in some cases,  insist on being married immediately after you know you're pregnant) things tend to work out.

If you never really insist on having a great,  truthful guy,  or never really insist he marry you,  you won't have such success.

I really wish you the best.  This isn't about the luck of the draw,  it's about setting your mind to making the right decisions and picking the right man,  and insisting he treat you the right way.  

I really wish you the best,  and I hope this works out for you because you're in pain,  but I also want the people who are reading this board to get this message - get married before you get pregnant.

[RockRose]

I'm sorry,  ImmortalOne,  I forgot my last comment.  Getting married costs nothing.  Like,  75 bucks.

I really hope you put your foot down and make this guy own up and marry you.

[MaddysMommy14]

I wasnt married before I got pregnant and im doing just fine! I went through the same thing. And he is obligated to be faithful to you! He's the father of your baby!!!!!! If that isnt a reason to be faithful, then what is????? If you need anything or you need to talk, you can add me on msn alysonreneewills_01***@**** or just comment me on here and ill respond ASAP! Dont be afraid to talk about it, im here, ive been through it and hopefully can give you some good advice. But it is an obligation for him to be faithful to you. I mean, If your dating someone exclusively then dosent that mean you should be faithful??????? You just worry about that beautiful baby inside you! If you need anything for the baby, let me know, and i'll be glad to help. I have so much stuff that I would never miss, I'll just end up throwing it away or something.... Much Love, Alyson

[RockRose]

MaddysMommy - probably I should bow out of this conversation at this point.  I'm not trying to be ugly or damning.

No,  "dating exclusively" does not obligate anyone to be faithful.  That's kind of girltalk,  and guys don't speak the same language.  They really don't.    Guys who can have sex with you with no real legal obligation often will do just that.  And if they meet a girl who doesn't insist on being respected,  and being married before she tries to start a family,  they are much more likely to just find a warm place to put it and then move on to some other girl.  

That's the reality.  A woman who sets her sights on making sure she is married before she starts a family is much more likely to attract the kind of guy who will follow through.

I was in Home Depot last Sunday,  and saw this:  A lot of guys in their 40's pushing carts filled with potting soil,  fertilizer and bedding plants.  They were with their wives and children,  and planning to put in Spring flower beds.  That's the guys you want,  and there are a bazillion of them out there,  you just have to pick one of them,  not a guy who doesn't want to marry you he just wants to have sex.

That's all I have to say about that.  ;D

[AndiJ78]

We are Lowe's shopper but rockrose described us. The family trips to Lowe's with 2 carts because we have 3 young boys.

I was not an innocent girl, but all I atracted were pieces of poo. When I finally realized i was worth more than the "expectations" of fidelity, I happened to find a wonderful man who loves his wife and children dearly.

I really do hope you can find some comfort and solace in the comments, all of the comments. While Rock or myself may seem harsh in our delivery, it really is more of a testament that you can and should be able to find better. I stinks that sometimes this stuff happens, but better now than down the road.

Good luck to you, trust is such an important foundation for a relationship. If you feel you can recover from this emotionally. then go for it. But if not, better to cut your losses now and focus on what really matters, your baby.

I am of the school that prefers things be in order before having babies. marriage, decent enough income to afford a parent stay home, and perhaps almost as important if not more is good solid health insurance. It really does help things tremendously. I have seen a few friends in cohabiting relationships where they were :"engaged" for years, planned poorly in getting pg before the nuptuals and were left either while pg or shortly thereafter by worthless men that wanted nothing more than a warm bed to sleep in while they mooched off of them emotionally, physically, and financially.

Nothing can change your current situaiton except for you. You know deep down what is best and at this point i think you just need a moment or two to search deep down and find it and then act upon those feelings. I know you will find the strength to move on from this either with or without him.

[Agiesmom]

I'm so sorry.  My first thought was to go into his email again and send a message to her (appearing to be from him), saying, "I'm so sorry I sent that email--I have a fianc

[Agiesmom]

Two more comments after reading some other comments:

I agree...confronting it head on is probably the best way.  No game playing, coyly asking questions, going back into the account to see how it may be progressing.  I do believe the best way to handle it would be to print out the email and hand it to him.  Let him do the talking.  If he goes on about your violating his privacy, you know where you stand.

Also, regarding expectations...I couldn't agree more with those who said that you get what you expect to get.  I recommend watching The Secret.  Very enlightening.

[lyndsea]

I am so sorry you are in this situation. I'd have to agree with Pamed34... Living together, having a child (even out of wed lock)  and being engaged to someone is a huge commitment and he should be faithful. The fact that he has put a ring on your finger is a binding commiment to you and you alone. He has asked you to be his one and only for the rest of his life so his eye head nor heart should go to anyone else even if he says its a "crush". If you feel the need go to legal aid and ask them if emails you have retrieved from his email will stand up in court, if it was to ever go that far of which we are all praying for you that it dosn't. Keep your self covered and calm. Remember you are the one he asked to marry and you are the on that is having his child you have a lot more going for you then any other female has or want with him. People do things different some would confrount him and some would confront the other party. Keep you wits about you and stay strong. I hope everthing turns out right for you take care.

[Trialanderror]

Married or not - chaters will be cheaters, obligations or not.

[Wooly25]

i agree with trial and error, once a cheater always a cheater.  My parents got married out of wedlock, went on to have three more kids, were married for 12 years and then my dad cheated on my mom.  Come to find out though I guess after I was born my mom had cheated on my dad.  So marriage isn't always the answer (cheaters will do it if they want to).  I on the other hand, looked at my parent's relationship and knew that I wanted much better.  I waited for God to give me the perfect man for me, and he sent him to me in college.  We did live together in college, but didn't try to get pregnant and made sure we did everything we possibly could to prevent getting pregnant (minus not having sex) before we were married.  Once we got married, we graduated a year later, and he started working and I looked for a job, and we were renting a house and had health insurance and that's when we decided to have unprotected sex (together for 4 years, and married for 1).  We ended up mc twice after about 8 months of unprotected sex, but are now 38 weeks pregnant with baby number 1 and we just sold our house to move closer to the in-laws. We are both working full-time and have very good health care.  I just believe that yes you should plan better or be careful, but once that baby is made, you can't go back in time and get things figured out.  You just need to make a plan that works for you, but don't be sad or upset when something wasn't thought out carefully before it was to late.  God does give us a baby when he thinks the timing is right, but we also have the freedom of choice.  So if you choice not to follow his word then you have to deal with the concicences.  I also think that marriage does bind a little, but trust is more important, if you don't trust your guy then it will not make for a happy marriage and maybe you should have questioned his faithfulness a little sooner, before having unprotected sex.  Some guys are cut out for marriage and some are not, it also depends on how mature they are.  You can have a 40 year old that acts 18, and a 20 year old that acts 40.  So it's just a matter of learning more about the man's personality and reading his behavior, before you make a big commitment to him and have unprotected sex.  Good luck I hope things work out, but to hid from it, and ignore it will not help you, you must confront him and make sure that your both on the same page, people do change and sometimes need a reminder of reality, and why they committed to you in the first place.  A real man, will be sorry for ever thinking about cheating, and bad man will feel sorry he got caught.

[LittleLady1980]

Honey, I am so amazingly sorry to hear this. I just put myself in your shoes, and couldn't handle it... if my dh were doing something like that... I don't know...I might prefer not to know...Hold your head up as best as you can for that lil baby, and like someone on here already said, when the time is right, you'll know it. Make sure you don't leave this site for good though, because you'll need the support no matter what you decide to do.

[jenstam]

I think this needs to be confronted. It is cheating in a different way. Emotional cheating. You have less trust and without trust there is nothing. It destroyed my first marriage. It made me temporarily insane. You could tell him that you had a feeling something was different and that was why you went looking. It would feel better to get it off your shoulders and put it out in the open that you will not tolerate this. You really do need to set the foundation in the beginning. I wish you luck.

[BearHitch]

Personally I agree with RockRose when she says he has no obligation to be faithful.  You may be in an exclusive relationship and even living together, but he has not made that promise in front of family and friends that he is yours and yours his forever.  I also agree with TrialandError that once a cheater, always a cheater- do you really want to rush into a marriage after what you've just learned?  There is that expectation to be faithful, and if he can't even pull that off when there isn't a final obligation, do you really want him around?  I think you can do better- good luck!

[surprisebaby]

although I am married, and was prior to becoming pregnant, I still EXPECTED my man to be faithful to me, and he EXPECTED me to be faithful to him before and after our vows.  I have  to agree with TRIAL AND ERROR...a peice of paper will not stop ANYONE from cheating,  mentally, emotionally, physically, sexually....PERIOD!!!  I am middle aged and have to think that the OLDER generation feels strongly about pregnancy out of wedlock...hmmm...although come to think about it, my Grandma didn't seem to be upset by it when 2 of her daughters did (whom have both been married for 30+ years now to the same men and fathers of their babies) nor when my cousin did it, and she got married to that man 2 years after the birth of their child, which I felt was a good idea, because they had their own things to work out and a MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE was NOT going to resolve anything.  In fact, it probably would've made things worse.  Now, he is a Wonderful, caring father and husband...one that every woman dreams of.  I hope you can work things out with your man too, but please write down your thoughts on paper.  I am never good with confronting my dh when an argument ensues, and he is, so he always seems to OWN the argument.  I have found writing it down on paper to be most helpful.  Recently, I wrote him a letter about how I felt about somethings, and I actually was able to RIP the letter up and confront him with all the things I had wrote about.  He tried to take over the conversation saying "I thought this was already discussed!"  I told him "NO, he had discussed it, and I had listened, and now it was MY TURN!!!"  I feel 1000% better.  Our relationship is at a level it hasn't been in a long time.  Sometimes, men just need to be put in their place.  Sorry for rambling, but thought this might help you a little bit.  Best of luck to you.

[vsentz]

Well said!!
There is NO excuse to be not faithful in a relationship....a commitment is made without a paper. Unfortunately, the importance of the paper is big when it comes to law, benefits, etc....in a family united by marriage. As far as values? is a poor attitude of a man to think that if he hasn't signed a paper, he's still 'good' to cheat and can get away with it.......POOR attitude. Unfortunately there's people that still believes that....but it's a matter of each person's way of thinking.
I am SO very sorry you have to go thru this, I agree with other posters, confront him.
About a year ago, me and dh went to a party where we were sat a couple of people from his ex-girlfriend and her husband.....it was ackward...but nothing major.....(i know she never truely got over him....)
A week afterwards, (we were flying down to my home town) I was checking his email to remember the flight number and the times (he gets the online tickets).... i wanted to let my best friend know....and to my surprise there was an e-mail from one of her (ex) best friends to my dh. He emailed my husband to let him know that this girl had a message for him, that she was so sorry she couldn't get up and say hi to him, that i made her feel so uncomfortable and that it still hurt her to see him, that she was debating thruout the entire dinner whether or not to get close to him....blah blah blah...
I told dh right away, and he understood, laughed it off....comforted me...and sent a message right back to his ex's bff...saying he was happily married now, that he didn't understand why she was doing this and that she had a kid and a husband...and that he wondered what would her dh think about her little note....
(between me and you, i sent a little message to her too........;)....not a very welcoming one.....=))


Wish you the best......

[Hulahut]

OMG.  I am so so sorry for what you are going through.  I agree that it must be confronted, because it will eat you up inside, no matter how much you want to focus on other things.  I wish I had more to say.  I am thinking about you, sweetie, and I'm so glad you come here, too.

[surprisebaby]

another thing....I'll bet that if you confront your man about this, he will say things like "I'm Sorry" and try to regain your trust...he KNOWS he is SUPPOSE to be FAITHFUL, men are not really THAT stupid!!!  He'll know he did something that you don't approve of.  I'm sure he wouldn't want you to tell him...."GEE honey, I'm not Sure who the father of this baby is!"  again, married or not...no difference!  

[rubyolivia]

Oh my gosh! I am so sorry!! I just got that rock sinking to the bottom of my stomach type feeling for you! I went through this with two guys I dated. One of which I'd been with for 3 years and was living with. They sure have some nerve, huh? I know how you feel about the snooping thing though.......that's how I always busted them! I was obsessed with pushing the redial on home phones to see who they called last (they were both smart enough to delete caller ID but never thought to dial a different number after calling the other girl). You must confront him. Otherwise, you will live with this feeling of insecurity constantly! Hopefully you can work it out, but if he's not willing to try then he's not worth your time. (No matter how worth it you think he is right now, because I know...you love him and you know he cares.....I've been there) Don't stress too much, honey! Just think about that perfect little baby you'll have in your life! :)

[lynne1276]

Oh my......I feel like I know your story the best out of anyone on here cause I've been reading your posts about work and surgury.  This is the last thing you need.  I don't agree with Rockrose about the no obligation unless your married thing.  I think thats ****.  He put a ring on your finger, that is a commitment!   But I do agree, cheaters will be cheaters!!   Even if your married a piece of paper won't stop it!   I have been cheated on in every realtionship I've had.  I was lucky enough to finally find a loving, faithful guy.  He may be lazy with house work and like video games but never the less, faithful.  You deserve that too.  Even if she does live far away, you need to confront him.  I'm sure if it was turned around, he wouldn't hesitate to confront you.  I know somone told you to wait until the baby is born but thats another 20 weeks!!!   Who knows what will happen by then.  If not with this girl, then another???   If you need to talk my email is ***@****.  I check it all the time at work.  take care of yourself!   xxxx   Lynne

[surprisebaby]

i know of a few people who have left their spouses and children and moved to another country to be with someone they never actually met...just chatted with on the internet.  crazy but true!!!  don't assume anything!   i too have been following your story and hope things will brighten up 4 u soon !!!  :)

[over40club]

I agree with so many of the other posters...being middled aged and seeing this kind of thing over and over and over again it saddens me and makes me sick but men ARE different. No matter how much we WANT them to feel like us they just don't. I agree that the "piece of paper" does matter, esp. to man deep down to be truly committed. I read once that a principle is a principle just as a rock is a rock and it doesn't matter if you believe it or not it hurts just as bad when you slam yourself up against a principle as it hurts when you slam yourself up against a rock. I agree with the others you need to confront this head on and stop being a pushover....people will treat you the way you allow yourself to be treated and you get what you expect...start expecting more! You DESERVE it!!! God Bless you, I feel so bad for you in this situation but you will get through it...be strong and seek counsel if you can...Getting yourself strong in mind as I stated above will allow you to care for yourself the way you deserve..which means making wise choices. Believe me I learned this the hard way in my early yrs but God was Good so Good and gave me a wonderful husband and 2 more beautiful babies when we thought that it was too late...I'm in my mid forties and he is near 50, we each had 1 child from previous marriages and bad experiences until we stopped putting up with **** and demanded more for ourselves. WE are very happy now.  I will pray for your strength. Good Luck and God Bless!

[mom2rachie]

He is obligated to be faithful if he said he would be.  A promise is an obligation and a man's word is a man's word.
That being said, marriage doesn't change ANYTHING so if anyone thinks that just because he marries you he won't cheat, that's ridiculous.  My husband  and I have been together for 8 years, married a few months.  He cheated on me while we dated.  We worked through it.  I married him anyway.  DO I think he cheats now?  No, but I will never forget what he did in the past.
I think the most ridiculous thing I ever read on this site or any other is that he is not obligated to be faithful.  Like hell he's not!

[mom2rachie]

And just for the record, since I'm home, I watch the Maury Povich show and it always has couples on who take lie detector tests.  IMO, if you need to ask your significant other to take a test, then the relationship should be over and on that same note, if you need to check up on him/her somethng is wrong there in the first place.  
Until you correct the underlying issues of insecurity or infidelity, you will never have a solid relationship.
If i checked his phone or email or pockets allthe time, I would have to look at why.  I cannot allow that stuff to eat me up.  He's either going to cheat or not and ifhe does CHOOSE to cheat, and it IS a CHOICE, then it's because of HIM, not anything I did!
Good luck to you and I'm very sorry.  

[AndiJ78]

After readring and rereading, I wanted to make sure my point was captured here. A marriage certificate will not change a cheater, we all know that. BUT, actually making the commiment to get married, rather than simply calling someone a fiance for a million years says something. There is a level of commitment that comes when you make that step. It will not change a persons faults, but it speaks volumes about their impression of the relaitonship. My dh and I had no long engagement, what is the point of that? We wanted to get married, not just be engaged forever, and a few months later we did it. The only cause for the delay is that I had moved to Houston and he was still in WA. I had to schedule my vacation months in advance and once i was all clear, I flew up, we got hitched, spent a week together, and I flew home. We never lived together before getting married. We dated for  over 2 years beforehand, and due to his service in the military and my inability to move at that time to due my schooling, we didn't even get to live together until 6 months after our nuptuals when he got out of the USAF.

This is nothing personal to anyone on here in the perpetual engagement situation. I have just watched far too many friends and relatives get duped into that only to be dropped like flies for someone new. I always take a step back when I hear one go on and on about how their BF doesn't bellieve in marriage, blah, blah, blah. And inevitably it comes to fruition, he finds someone else. It takes a special kind of slime to not only cheat on his partner, but to do so when she is pg. That,to me, is the sign of a real loser. And the emotional affair doesn't take long to make its way into the bedroom.

Good luck to you. I hope that all of these comments have given you some hope and an idea of how you want to handle this.

[mslkpage]

I think people are misunderstanding what others are trying to say. Let's face it- it's a lot easier for a man (or anyone for that matter) to justify cheating if he's not married. No one is saying that he SHOULDN'T be faithful...we all agree that he should. Okay? Does everyone see that? We agree on that point, sheesh! What we're disagreeing on is that SOME men's perception of committment does change once they are married. SOME feel they are entitled to a certain amount of oat sowing in the meantime.

Notice, I did not say ALL. And of course, there are married men who cheat as well.

[LittleLady1980]

Sorry, I was reading these posts and just got mad-not at anyone on here, but at the people who do these sorts of things to others. I think that the biggest problem I have with this is MOST of the people it's done to don't deserve it. Let me give you a "for instance" of someone who "did deserve it" I was about 17, dating this gorgeous guy, and he just happened to be a foster kid. I talked with him on the phone one evening and he pretended to be having a foster sister performing let's just say "things" on him while I was on the phone with him. I tried to call him back to dump him after the phone call was cut-off for some reason, can't remember why but he had taken off to some friend's house... and I met this really nice guy and we hit it off, and I told him about this jerk I was dating, and actually gave the new guy a choice of whether HE (the new guy) wanted to date me and I'd dump the jerk, or if I should just dump the jerk. He said he wanted to date me, so as soon as I could find him, I got a hold of the jerk and dumped him. Maybe there is no excuse for that even...I know it's different-we were kids. This is a relationship with actual committment involved. And I agree with these ladies who say paper or not, when you're with someone, you're with them, and nobody else. And it's ridiculous to think that "because I'm not married, I can do whatever I want and not have to suffer any consequences." When my now dh and I first got together, he told me straight-up-you EVER cheat on me, and we're done. There will be no talking about it, no fixing it, we'll be through with. I looked at him and said, "same goes for you." He had an ex who cheated on him, hid bills from him so she could spend the money elsewhere, had him take her to work and then she'd ditch work and go somewhere else, he's got gnarly scars on his back from her attacking him...and I just don't understand it, he's a nice guy, quiet and polite, smart, funny, sweet, honest, considerate of others and a darn good looking man if I do say so myself. What more could someone want? ANd yet they go and pull this bull on their significant others when the "significant other" is like my dh and certainly doesn't deserve something like this... it's **** and people doing things like this to nice people who don't deserve it in any way, shape or form ticks me off. Are these people emotionally immature? Are they simply jerks? I don't know, I don't understand it.... Like I said, when I pulled this stupid ****, the "new guy" knew about it, knew I was going to dump the guy either way and the other guy was just a plain-old jerk, and I was just a kid... I don't know if that makes it any better or not, probably not-Mama always said "Two wrongs don't make a right." But I guess kids are allowed to make a few mistakes. I still feel bad about that, darn-it. Anyways, so sorry, all, had to vent and to let you know I'm not trying to be a hypocrite, but my way of thinking has changed since then, that's for sure. (not sure I was thinking at  ALL at 17) LoL...

[LittleLady1980]

Sorry, but I have to say this: when you get into a relationship where it's agreed upon that there will NOT be faithfulness, or at least the other party KNOWS about it, that's one thing. But when you enter into a relationship with the presumption that both of you WILL be faithful, and that that relationship may escalate into marriage, that's a whole different thing. It's inconsiderate, unfair, mean, cruel, and all sorts of MEAN, NASTY things to go into a relationship thinking you'll both be faithful, and maybe even agreed that you'll both be faithful and then all of a sudden one of the involved changes their mind and just happens to "forget" to tell the other. It's WRONG. Period. No if's, no and's and no but's!!!!!!!!

[anxiousmomtobe?]

I do think you need to bluntly ask him what his level of commitment is to you and this child.

If the answer is unsatisfactory you will have to decide if you want to settle or move one.  

I wish you well.

[mslkpage]

Everyone is agreeing that the cheating is wrong. Why are you still yammering about it?

[mom2rachie]

I think the bototm line is no matter how she found out, she found out and she does need to confront him.
Also, I agree wholeheartedly with the poster who said whoever cheats on his pregnant fiance is a real jerk......
The bottom line is, do you really want this man inyour life?  It takes a real creep to do that!

[lynne1276]

Now, now...place nice girls..  :)    Don't want to start one of those posts where everyone yells at each other.  god knows we've had enough of that!  

[mslkpage]

I agree that she needs to confront him. Actually, I agree with everything you just said...not sure why it was aimed at me, but I agree with all of it.

[mslkpage]

I guess what's frustrating to me is that we all agree what he did was sh*tty. Most of us agree that he should be confronted. What we don't all agree on is whether a man looks at marriage as more of a committment than say, living with someone or just being engaged. Some of us feel that men DO feel that way. However those of us who don't believe it makes a difference respond and say it's the most ridiculous thing they've ever heard!!

I understand that not everyone agrees with me, but I'm not going to call those peeps ridiculous because of it.

[lynne1276]

I understand what your saying.  I wasn't trying to point at you...I was actually trying to break the ice a little bit  :)   guess it was taken the wrong way.  anyway, I guess the bottom line is regardless of what he thinks his commitment should be, she deserves better than some guy who's sending internet love notes while she's pregnant.  She just needs to believe that she is worth way more than that.  I think thats the problem with most of us women.  I know I'm guilty.  I've finally smartened up

[mslkpage]

Oh, I know what you were trying to do, but my fingers just kept going!!! And I shouldn't use the word "yammer," but I use it (and "yapping") to describe myself a lot of times!! I just got frustrated that we were overwhelmingly in agreeance (did i spell that right?), yet we were still bickering amongst ourselves. No one here thinks Immortalone deserves that kind of treatment!!  

...moving on now...

: )

[mom2rachie]

LOL
I was going to write something specifically pretaining to what you wrote but changed it and forgot to take your name out.. sorry...  

[workingmamaof4]

what a joke. with over half of all marriages ending in divorce, it is amazing to me how many people still believe in happily ever after. that stupid piece of paper is just that, a piece of paper. it's not a magic contract, you silly cows.

I mean, what are you, like 80 or something? how on earth would a piece of paper make a man keep it in his pants if the fact that he is living with his pregnant fiancee, who is having health problems, doesn't seem to matter to him?

that's a low blow, you're pretty much telling her "that's what you get for getting knocked up before marriage."

not helpful.

[peekawho]

Are you married?  Most people (notice that I did not say ALL, either) who say that "a little piece of paper doesn't change anything"), actually do not have said little piece of paper.

[AndiJ78]

As opposed to how helpful your post has been? At least us "old cow's" offered some advice, rather than simply posting just to post.

Marriage is more than a piece of paper and yes, I do still believe in happily ever after. I feel that I am truly living that dream.

I am sorry for those who are so bitter that they are no longer capable of having such hopes or dreams for a happily ever after scenario. Marrige is not a cure all, it is not a fix for a bad relationship, but it is a serious step for a couple looking for a serious level of commitment. The problem our society has is seeing marriage as a fix for a bad relationship or even worse, getting pg to fix something that is already broken. Marriage is not a gimick, it is not something to be entered in lightly. BUT finding a true partnership where both people feel the same way about their life's goals and solidifying that by exchanging vows and making that commitment speaks volumes about a person's character and intentions.

There are many more reasons to get married than simply "having a stupid peice of paper" The security that marriage provides a couple is unmatched by anything else. I only wish it were harder for people to get married  so they would understand the seriousness of such a commitment,

This was not a post to condemn her actions for getting pg before marriage, btu this a direct response to the prior post. I sense a bitterness in you that I have rarely seen in someone who is in a happy marriage or who hasn't been hurt in the past by a prior partner. It is unfortunate, but please don't think that your situation is all that more common than a happy outcome. Not everyone gets a happily ever after, but many do.

[workingmamaof4]

"If you expect monogamy, get married."

good advice. marry this guy and cross her fingers that it changes him? or walk out on the father of her child and find someone else to marry?

no, I'm not married. we have lived together for 10 years, and have 3 kids with 1 more on the way. I think marriage is a waste of money. I'm not the big wedding type, I don't need all that attention, and I really don't see the point in spending hundreds of dollars to file a piece of paper. We are a family just the same as any other family, I just have a different last name than him and the kids. who cares. nobody's going anywhere. our kids know we love and are committed to each other, and God knows. nobody else matters. and nobody cares, except judgemental old fashioned cows.

my advice to the op is to concentrate on her health and her baby, and keep this in the back of her mind for later. several other level headed ladies have told her the same thing, so I didn't think I needed to. I just wanted to defend her from the judemental attacks on her "virtue." lol....

[peekawho]

I got married for $50 at the county courthouse.  It doesn't have to cost a lot, but it can mean the world.  And NO ONE is saying that being married means a man won't cheat.  

If nothing else, marriage affords you and your children some legal protections, and some rights that unmarried GF/BF couples don't have.  You have no, zero, zip, nada legal decision making rights as a girlfriend, for example, if your husband were to be injured seriously or even killed, in regards to his medical decisions, care, or arrangements.  Unless he's had the foresight to have a medical power of attorney arranged...but again, that's "just" a piece of paper.  

Until you get that "little piece of paper", you'll just be a girlfriend for the rest of your life, children or not. Having kids with him just makes you a baby mama.  It shows that neither one of you expected anything more from each other.    It also sends your children a big message, one that they may internalize and carry with them for the rest of their lives.

[Wooly25]

Well, your a little off there honey.  That piece of paper is more then just a piece of paper.  First off you will have trouble getting health coverage for your spouse if you don't have that piece of paper.  Also, if you get a divorce it protects you so that your spouse doesn't walk away leaving 4 kids on your back door and cleaning out your bank account.  To most it's a legal matter, if not a loving matter.  It shows that you are committed to that person.  I agree to many people do get divorced.  But if not being married works for you then good luck, but for most it's a sign of love, commitment and a strong relationship foundation.  My point is made, by if a piece of paper doesn't matter then why are gay couples fighting to hard to have the right to get married.  Because to most it does matter (emotionally, financially, and protection of the courts if something goes wrong.)

[AndiJ78]

Yep, I thought I recognized the words of a woman who's boyfriend won't commit to marriage. Bravo to you for making not only your life harder, but confusing for your children. Ditto to peekawho's response. The only one's who don't see the importance of that "piece of paper" are the ones who don't have it or can't get it.

FYI, I didn't get married for the big fancy ceremony, I had a small little ceremony, perhaps 15 people total. It cost under $500 incuding my flight up to WA and the cheap little motel where we stayed for our "honeymoon" I never saw the point in dumping tens of thousands of dollars on a wedding, but i do see the NEED to have a marriage license.

Call me an old fashioned cow if you will. I may just wear that badge proudly. I am old fashioned, perhaps if we had more "old fashioned" folks out there, our prisons wouldn't be overwhelmed, our children would be happier and healthier, and a sense of personal responsibility would exist in our country again.

I am not out to change your mind or anyone elses for that matter. The point really is "moo" (any Friend's fans out there) It is , afterall, just a cow's opinion that doesn't really matter, right?

And had someone come on here and said their SPOUSE was doing the same thing, I may say very much the same thing. If you cannot trust your husband or wife, you do not have a good foundation in your marriage and therefor should probably move on.

Now i have said my piece, keep dragging it on if you will. But notice I am not the one who resorted to name calling. Again, bravo to you for setting such a great example.

[pertykitty]

ok i have to offer my 2 cents lol. marriage is more than a peice of paper to me. it having a husband, there is definatly a difference between a boyfriend, fiance, and a husband. you take a vow and you work hard to make your relationship work. there will be ups and downs, and you work through it. yes i have been divorced once. i chose the wrong guy the first time. after having a child i grew up and he didnt, he grew away. this really wasnt to immortal, it was to the ones that say its just a piece of paper. do you say that because you come from a broken home? have you been hurt over and over? if you say its just a piece of paper, then your marriage is going to fail. you dont see it with the respect and love it deserves.

thats all i have to say about that...........

[vsentz]

wow.....this really scaled up huh??
My 2 cents: I am married, very happily......first and only husband.......and loving it.....(well, sometimes i have hate it...but that's mostly when i am vaccuming and dh comes and slaps my butt.......;))

(by the way, that was a break the ice joke.....)

I agree with pertykitty....to me, my vows meant (and MEAN) and will mean the whole entire world....no one can brake them, unless is a very ugly matter like cheating. Now, 4 years after my wedding, i look back, and besides the legal benefits I/we get...........i feel the exact same way i felt ever since I met him........i love him just as much as i did when i said 'i will change my whole life to be with you' (for the ones who don't know, i moved from my original country to be here with dh, leaving everything behind....).

To me, being married is awesome and very important. Did it change my (or dh's) way of feeling for eachother, and comittment for eachother?? no.....we still feel as much in love and comitted as when we got engaged.....

To the original poster: For some, a comittment is made WAAAAY before a marriage, for some, it starts when you say 'i do'. We all make mistakes....and you're entitled to forgive him if he has more goods than bads.......he (as far as you know) hasn't cheat yet........he is in the border line tho......but hasnt'.......that's up to you if you forgive or not....we are just giving opinions.....


NOTE to all*: I am sharing my story......;)....take it as that....

[workingmamaof4]

my parents have been married for 34 years. his parents have been married for 35 years.

I have been with this man since I was 19 years old. he has never hurt me, and he asks me to marry him twice a month, because he feels bad that people automatically blame him when they find out we're not married. he bought me a ring for christmas and I took it back to the store and used the money to take the kids to disneyworld. it was the best trip we've ever taken, our family has never had so much fun together, it has been the highlight of our lives so far.

stop trying to put me in a box. you don't know me.

I'm not the one who has made marriage a joke, society has done that. it's just not important to me. filing a paper with the government is not going to make or break a relationship. all of things you guys talk about are money matters, health insurance, life insurance, money if he leaves, blah blah blah. we are both self supporting adults, we have our own insurance. he's not going to walk out and leave me high and dry with these kids. I don't need a special piece of paper to tell me that, I already know.

it is still incredibly amazing to me that this even came up on this thread. a woman posts that her fiancee may be cheating, and she is told that's what you get for not being married. crazy...

[pertykitty]

working mom i wouldnt be too pleased (and id probably not get married either being you) if the only reason my bf asked me to marry him is because he feels bad how other percieve. wow that is quite the interesting line. and to take his ring (did you ever consider HIS feelings?) and hawked it to go to disneyland?? well good luck to your man for sticking with you. i never said a thing to immortal about her situation. they want to marry and it will mean more than just a piece of paper. buy hey, your kids will pick up on your values and continue to live as you do. they will see that relationships hold no value and that there is no reason to wait until they are married to have kids, why not do it now? i feel bad for you actually. you blame society for you being scared to make that final commitment. you dont think your kids deserve that? are they his? im sure disneyworld was fun, i have been to disneyland many times, but i dont think id ever call it the highlight of my families life. anyway, we all have our own opinions. i want my son to believe that love is real and marriage is great. that he doesnt have a child with a girl out of wedlock. you keep teaching the kids its ok, they will end up in the situation where they have different kids with different baby daddies. selfish.

[over40club]

Count me in as part of the "silly old cow " club !!! I'll wear the badge proudly as I do feel that the sanctity of marriage is very important and taking it lightly is responsible for the moral breakdown that we are currently seeing in our society. MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO from the highest hilltop of my pasture!!!

[lynne1276]

Okay, I guess I should be mooooooing to.  When I said that a piece of paper won't change anything I meant that if a guy is going to cheat he will cheat whether married, engaged or just dating.  You can't change people.  However, I've only been married for 8 months but the day we took our vows we both agreed its "till death do us part"   There is a such thing as happily ever after if both agree that this is the person for them.  We have already had our share of stress and fights but nothing we can't work through.  I feel bad for people who go through life "bitter" and feel the need to spread that to others.  And just for the record, I work at Disney World, can go whenever I want and would trade that for happiness with my husband and children anyday!!!!!

[workingmamaof4]

How dare you question the paternity of my children? You are way out of line.

It is so hilarious that you are actually ignorant enough to believe that marriage keeps people together. That it makes one bit of difference. Take a look around, divorces are $49 these days, and more marriages end in them then not. Marriage is no longer about commitment. For some it's about the big party, for others it's about money. And for some it's about shutting up the old ninny's like you in their lives. And to assume that it is not possible to be committed to someone with out the ceremony is also ignorant. Maybe some people, such as yourself, couldn't possibly manage to stick to something you're not legally obligated to, but we manage just fine.

The point I was trying to make with the Disneyland story was that we wouldn't have been able to afford to do that if I had kept the diamond, which is what most selfish women would have done. We work really hard, and don't have much time together as a family, and that week in Florida (we live in Minnesota) was absolute heaven, and my kids will never forget it. Their dad won't either, and afterwards told me he was glad I made that decision.

So go ahead and judge me if you want to, you will anyway. That's what women like you live for, something to look down your nose at. I really don't care what you think of me, like I said before, I was defending the op. I'm sure your criticisms of her marital situation did not make her feel any better in her time of need.

I've never been so insulted. I spoke out about the biased, old-fashioned opinions posted here on this forum, I did not personally attack any one person, or their families, or their personal choices. I was then attacked, my man was attacked, our family. You "ladies" even insulted my children. Unbelievable...

[workingmamaof4]

I'm not bitter. Were do you get bitter? If you think that me not liking to see people in need getting slammed for not meeting other people's stuffy old fashioned standards is bitterness, then you need a dictionary.

And that line about were you work was a pretty stupid. What are you like 12 or something? Obviously if I worked at Disneyworld and "could go whenever I want" then it wouldn't be a big deal to me either, now would it?

But escaping Jan. in Minnesota to spend a beautiful week in Florida with my family was priceless, worth far more than a stupid ring that he only bought because judgemental fools like you and your friends here seem to think it's the most important thing in the world.

Now step off, all of you. Find someone else to look down your nose at.

[surprisebaby]

Well said...I have noticed that Lynn is quite the follower.  Check out her threads.  She just agrees with what everyone else is saying...and then changes her tune later, and then tells Immortal that SHE KNOWS HER BEST out of all of us on the forum because she has read all of her threads...do you really think that NO ONE else  had read her threads...that doesn't mean that I   K N O W   her any better than the rest of the people on here.  I couldn't agree more with you, as I said I am happily married....that was a choice we made to shut the OLD NINNIES up....lol  It didn't change our love for one another, not one bit, and if it DID, we would have much more SERIOUS problems!!!!

[pertykitty]

you have just shown your true colors. if you were to read what you wrote with open eyes you would see what a crazy post you wrote. i dont care one bit about you and i dont care if i hurt your feelings. you are going to do what you want and your children will show you what they have learned as they grow older. my marriage is so special to me i cant imagine returning my ring for a trip. but youdo what you want and believe what you want. i will leave out what i really think, you are the one that will have to deal with it eventually. you never said how your "boyfriend" ( how can you call him that after having children with him ) thinks of this. apparently he believes in ;marriage and is just letting you have your way because he knows you are ,,, the way you are. im sure he wants to keep his kids around. you can say whatever you want , i wont be offended even though you try. you are nothing to me, and i hope your kids learn what love is. be the angry self abosorbed woman you are and with time find that you are wrong. sh. it when it all comes down to it, that little peice of paper means a whole f.uck.en lot. but you can deal with that when your time comes. happy friday to you

[pertykitty]

what the heck did you mean you married to shut the old ninnies up ? that is why you married? well you and the other should be special online friends then. wow im always amazed at the people on here. i bet you would vote for hillary too?

[surprisebaby]

Well...we can't allllll belong to a CLIQUE such as yourself.  We can't all be as OLD AS DIRT either.  It's really funny, how it's ok for everyone to bash immortal and momma and when they retaliate with their OPINIONS....you are there to punch them in the FACE!  I have been on this site for some time, and YOUR name keeps coming up, and I keep thinking..."She's got some nerve saying that", but I guess it is ok for you to cast stones, JUST BE PREPARED to have some cast back at you!!!!!   If you can't take it, don't dish it out!   I strongly think you missed the whole reason for this post!!!   But that's ok...you can think what you like about me.  I really don't give a RAT"S A.S.S!  It doesn't change what I THINK ABOUT YOU!  You don't think that I took my vows seriously??  Of course I did. I don't need to justify myself to you or anyone else for that matter. But if you really want to know  THE REASON for the marriage was to make my hubby's  GRANDMA happy.  WE ALREADY HAD LOVE AND TRUST!!! (oh yeah, and we were already COMMON LAW, so we had same "RIGHTS" as a Married couple)  geeeeesh!

[pertykitty]

haha oh my. to make grandma happy. old as dirt? moi? im only 35. yes i do say things that make people say did she say that? you just did too sweety! i never really cared what immortal had to say, it was those bashing marriage that got me going. hey to each his own. i wonder this though, the few of you bashers, when talking about you "boyfriend" have any of you referred to him as your husband? common law? a bunch of **** that is. anyway you all have a great day, and hey! unruffle those feathers, it causes wrinkles lol.

[workingmamaof4]

"I bet you would vote for Hilary too."

WTF??? What does that mean?

PLEASE don't tell me you're a BUSH lover. That would really explain A LOT!!!!

35 my a.s.s.

I think you're just a little bit crazy.

I showed my true colors by calling you out for personally attacking me on a general discussion forum? We were discussing whether marriage meant the world and whether or not it could make a cheater faithful, and suddenly you're so offended you felt the need to insult me personally, my family and even my kids...

Old b.i.t.c.h. If you really are 35 you should try acting like it. You give 35 year olds a bad name.

Good grief, is that what I have to look forward to in 6 years???

[lynne1276]

First of all, I was not pointing at you about the bitter thing.   It was just a statement.   And yes, I'm 13 with 10 kids....is that what you want to hear

[lynne1276]

What did I ever do to you????    I'm pretty sure I haven't said anything negative to you at all.  I'm not on here to fight with anyone.  And what I meant by I know her the best.....I didn't mean better than you guys...I meant I'm familiar with her situation more than any of yours.  I recognize your names but dont know your stories.  You took that way wrong.

[pertykitty]

do you think by calling me old b that i am going to cry? im actually laughing because not only did you just show your immaturity, but im impressed you could spell that. i have nothing to prove to any of you. i also dont care what you think about me. i dont need your approval to get through my day. so go on and live your little life. ill sit back and enjoy mine!

[lynne1276]

they arent worth it!!!!!    how are you????

[surprisebaby]

sailer's wife....did you not learn your lesson 1st time around???  you are entitled to your opinion, but if no one agrees with you....let it go!  i can't wait 2 years when i am as old as dirt too!!!! i hope i am not as pig headed as you!!!

[pertykitty]

those two are as nutty as can be. they have screwed up morals and will never see anything anyone has to say. i can see why they want to fight with me, but i dont get why they are ganging up on you. you know lynne i dont think they will stop. they have become quite aggitated and will keep using the random insults to try to upset you, well me too. however im untouched by their blah remarks. i hope at least you are having a great friday!

[lynne1276]

I gotta say, I'm actually surprised with you because I don't think I have ever seen you be rude to anyone on here?????    I don't think immortal wanted a fight, just advice.   its not worth it

[lynne1276]

Oh, I'm at work....as usual.   I was having a great friday until I got yelled at :(  
I'm just surprised at surprisebaby cause I never said anything negative to her and she's jumpin all over me.  I dont think before today I ever saw her be rude.  I have no idea who workinmama is.  Its been way too peaceful around here lately anyway...lol  .......

[surprisebaby]

Just because my beliefs are different than yours, it doesn't mean I am SCREWED UP!!!  Let me guess...you swear (I see you do) you party all week and then, you go to your little Religious CULT on SUNDAY and confess all your sins and start again the next week.  What a hipocrate!

[surprisebaby]

very sorry to lash out at you.  just thought momma was being ganged up on by this ever obvious CLIQUE!

[lynne1276]

Thats okay....we are all very hormonal!!!   I actually wasn't ganging up on anyone.  Even my point about disney world was.......if I had a choice for an amazing vacation or making the man that I love happy by marrying him (because aparently he's asked her many times) I would try to make him happy and maybe a smaller vacation.  I've been through ALOT lately that I haven't posted on here but I have decided no matter what I have my family by my side, thats what I need.   Hope that makes sense

[surprisebaby]

absolutely, and I really couldn't agree with it more.  I LOVE my family, but it's NOT because I am married to my  man.  I could be his girlfriend and still have the same feelings for him, the wedding doesn't change that. (at least, you SHOULD LOVE the man you want to spend the rest of your life with no matter if it is as boyfriend and girlfriend, fiance, or spouse.)  That's why there are very few PREARRANGED marriages these days!  They finally figured out that THAT doesn't work!!!  LOL
As for the trip to Disney, it is a DREAM vacation for some.  We recently went and it was a BEAUTIFUL holiday.    Spending time with loved ones is what a FAMILY holiday is all about.  Because I live in Canada....it costs ALOT to go to see MICKEY.  Our trip was almost $10000.00 (including flight, hotel, disney passes, food and spending money!!)  If given the choice between a ring and a holiday...I too would pick the holiday!  alot more memories with the holiday!
Hope the Easter Bunny is good to you!
:)

[lynne1276]

By the way.....who needs a ring to be married????    For your information, I got married quickly because I was pregnant and everyone wanted us to be married before the baby was born.   I m/c a week later.  He had proposed to me before we knew we were preg without a ring and I said yes.  I'm NOT one of those girls who needs a ring or anything fancey so don't tell me to go look down at someone else.  I'm thankful for what I have because last week I thought we would all be sharing a room at my mother in laws house.   I didn't go to Florida till I was 20.  My parents never took me.  We went camping and had just as much fun.  I just happen to work here now.  My point was, your boyfriend obviously loves you and you said asks you twice a month to marry him.  Your right, you don't need a piece of paper for devotion...I never said that.  My point was, I would rather be with the man I love and my children than anything else.  You should have gotten married down here for $50  and you could have had it all..  :)    

[lynne1276]

Nice Easter to you too.  and your right....you have to take out a second morgage on your house just to see that damn mouse!!!!  lol

[pertykitty]

i dont go to church. i dont party but i do enjoy a beer or wine sometimes.  i work part time so i can be with my son. my dh is off to war so people like me and you can say whatever we want to in this country of ours. i dont stand on the corner with signs pro or against anything. your image of me is way off but that is ok. i used to party. i used to be the punk rock gal with ripped black fishnets and knee high doc martins. i had piercings and i have tattoos. i changed with the birth of my son. now i have to do what is right by him. so im not the little old lady with a bob haircut sitting here with my dockers and free spirit shoes. i do believe in marriage, i do believe in family. i know things happen and not all get married right away or even get married. that is your choice. i simply voiced my free speech just as you have done with me. i swear like a sailor at times, not around the kid. ive done some pretty bad stuff in my time, and now i try to walk straight. its funny how you can misinterpret(however the hell you spell that) an image of someone by the words they have chosen.

[surprisebaby]

if you don't go to church...stop preaching to me!!!  also, my husband was in the military as well...he was an aircraft maintenance engineer, and now he works his a.s.s off for his family. what works for you isn't necessarily the only way.  You should focus more of your energy on things that really matter in this world, and not trying to SHOVE your opinions down someone else's throat!    I am married, very happily I might add...but , I was VERY HAPPY before and although you might be  so insecure that you needed to get married so that your man wouldn't wander away from you, that is not everyone's scenario!  MOST men are actually very loyal to those they TRULY LOVE!!!

[AndiJ78]

Actually, the divorce rate for pre-arranged marriages is less than 2%. Just thought you should know. And the rate of divorce is still LOWER than the rate of break-ups in co-habitating scenarios. So, in theory you may have actually had a higher chance of succeeding had you gotten married. In addition, one of the contributing factors to the increase (which is now decreasing BTW) of divorces was that couples chose to cohabitate before getting married, which carries a much higher divorce rate than couples who didn't.

And I have scanned over everyone's comments and I didn't see in there where  ANYONE has said getting married fixes a cheater. Quite the opposite, I know I personally said more than once that marriage is not a fix. So you can quit trying to put words in other people's mouths.

And apparently Lynne hasn't paid much attention : ), surprisebaby is rude to many people.

[surprisebaby]

No...I am not rude to many...just YOU in the past, but that's a whole other ball of wax....  GROW UP!!

[surprisebaby]

I was rude to you because of your ONE BOOB and able to breastfeed all 3 of your babies for 2 years speech...to some poor lady who was having trouble breastfeeding, and YOU told her she was an INCOMPETENT mother....That's why I was RUDE TO YOU!!!

[AndiJ78]

Interesting, I have never told anyone they were an incompetent mother. In fact, I shared my story to show people there was hope and that is was possible to overcome some serious odds to nurse. It takes an overwhelming amount of time and dedication to overcome an obstacle like that, my story has helped many over the years work to find solutions and offered hope that it was possible to continue nursing in spite of some difficulties.

And no, it is not just me you have rude to, the list is quite long.

[surprisebaby]

Here is a link to the post where you were we first FELL IN LOVE!!!http://www.medhelp.org/forums/maternal/messages/47724.html
maybe it can jog your memory.  I always am woman enough to appologize when I get out of line...can't say I have EVER seen you apologize and THIS one was definitly OUT OF LINE!!!!

[surprisebaby]

. If you expect monogamy, get married...words from this post , by you...Maybe you overlooked them when you "scanned this whole thread"....

[AndiJ78]

I did not say that marriage will make a cheater monogamous, in fact I have said quite the opposite. You have a tendency to try a sly little game of twisting words. Doesn't work on me sweetheart. I know what I said and I know what you have said.

[surprisebaby]

I'm sorry sweetie...what DID you mean then???  because you certainly did not clarify it in the thread...but then again, I NEVER started this whole pissing match .... you did!  Your name was not in the COMMENT TO line until you started in at me!  I will ALWAYS defend myself, and others for the things that I believe in.  I understand what you are saying, but I don't feel that you understand what I am saying, and to say that I am NASTY to a LONG LIST OF PEOPLE  is ridiculous.  Unless they are apart of YOUR LITTLE CLIQUE than maybe so...but to me that just counts as ONE.

[AndiJ78]

Was it that hard to say that then? If you feel I am not understanding you, don't try to get your point across by attacking me or putting words in my mouth. Simply say "I am not sure you are understanding my point" and then help me to understand it. Simply jumping on a thread to stir up a hornets nest is not a good way to get your point acoss. Slinging insults is not the way either. If anything, it simply puts people on the defneisve and any statement made from then on out is not taken in its proper context, it is simply seen as another post of insults.

My point was that, like many others, there is a level of commitment that comes with making the step of getting married. It may suck, but that is how the world see it. We live in the world, we live in a particular society that has expectations for relationships. We have seen through many studies and research how people view relationships and that has a tremendous impact on how we see ourselves in those roles. Like it or not, there are some men out there who do not see that they are in a truly monogamous relationship unless they have exchanged vows. Heck, there are women who say the same.

We got married because we wanted to, not because we felt pressured to do so. I love my husband and am proud to be his wife and have his last name. I am proud that our children have the same last name. I am proud that I have the security that comes with being married. I know that if something were to happen to my husband tomorrow, I am taken care of in the legal sense. I am proud to wear the ring that symbolizes our love for one another.

Marriage does not eman that everything works out perfectly, we all have struggles in our everyday life. but i do feel, personally, that making the step of getting married gives people the incentive to work on their problems. When we said "I do" we didn't mean it in a temporary sense. We meant it till death do us part. Divorce is not an option for us, except for extreme circumstances, I see divorce as a cop out. We didn't enter into our marriage lightly, we didn't marry for any other reason other than that we love each other and wanted to build our life together as husband and wife.

Bottom line, I don't believe that getting married will fix a failing relationship anymore than having a baby will fix something that is broken. Apparently that message got lost somewhere. I am not a religious person, I did not grow up in a conservative household. In fact, I grew up with a mother who spent more time in bars picking up sleazebags and bringing them home every night than with her kids. Every other week, we had a new "Uncle" that lasted until the booze wore off and the fighting began. Then it was on to the next one. I saw my real mother have not one, but two failed marriages. I watched my sister follow suit and get "engaged" multiple times after dating for a month. none of those ever panned out, they simply played house for a few months, even years until the guy found greener pastures elsewhere. But i have also seen it work out, my grandparents have been together for 45 years, living together for 25 of those years. She was widowed at a young age with 5 young kids, my "grandpa's" wife split, leaving him with two young kids, they lived across the street from one another and eventually got together. Not getting married for them was more of a financial thing, my grandmother receives a pension from the Army as my real grandpa was in the military when he died.If she were to have gotten married, she would have lost that much needed extra income to support her kids. He is still my grandfather in my mind, he is all I have ever known.

But my grandparents are an unusual situation, many cohabitating situations simply do not work out. It may seem arhcaic, but it is a little harder to "break up" when you are married. Rather than running away when times are tough, it requires you to put in that extra bit of effort to straighten things out. I only wish it were harder to get married and harder to get divorced. Perhaps people would view it a little more seroiusly and not as a novelty.

Anyway, I hope you are sitting down, I am sorry. I am sorry you weren't getting my point and I am sorry you felt attacked.

[surprisebaby]

Apology accepted...and yes i am sitting...happy easter to you too.

[vsentz]

I don't see why the people that are not married should be bashed. I am personally married (like i said before) and love my dh, and am proud of being his wife.....as well. That doesn't change the way I think of and look people upon......, I am in a committed relationship but is not because of a paper, or a ring. It comes handy when law stuff comes along, hell yeah!.....but that didn't make me feel any special after the fact. Now, maybe i don't belong to the 'cows' or to the 'sinners'.........but that doesn't make me look down on people that are not married....or are.....
I have seen couples that are not married and ABSOLUTELY love each other and have a blissful relationship. For instance, my father in law, lost his wife (dh's mom) 10 years ago. He did not want to remarry and met an angel of a lady....super nice, with HIGH values and a big heart. Both are living in a very pretty house and I look up to them!!! big time!!! why? because they are in their mid 50's, never fight (never seen them....), are nice and sweet and caring to eachother and to others....., always talking so highly about each other....and they look at eachother with puppy love eyes......they have been 8 years together!!!!!!!!!! 8 years!!!!!!!!
Now, i also know the kind that are married, with 3 kids, super religious...and what do they do??? FIGHT all the friggin time!!!!!!!!!!! it is uncomfortable and embarrasing to be with them!!! they have been married for 7 years.....(BIL and SIL) and they hate eachother....they live in a poor crappy home, they never finish studies and just popped out kids left and right.....and she doesn't even help in the house neither works......pathetic.......ohhhh!!!!! but she says that my FIL and his girlfriend (partner or whatever each of you wanna call her) are NOT allowed to sleep together when they visit......to me....that is so damn ironic and pathetic..............(but then again, that's each person's life.......thank goodness, not mine...)
I personally think marriage or not, one can have just as high of a committment to a person. No paper or ring needed. That is just ME and my opinions....now, i am not gonna google statistics...cuz that's why someothers are here for.....it bores the **** out of me, and besides, this is just what i think.......not what the society states......or most of it anyway.
I believe that each person gives something (physical or circumstancial) a special meaning. For me, a ring can mean the whole entire world, for another, is just a ring.......for me, the sowing machine of my mother may mean my whole childhood (i used to stare at her sowing in that machine for hours....), but then again, the memory and love for my mother and those years is carried in my heart, not in a sowing machine.......each thing has a value that WE give to the object......not the object itself has the value.....(i hope i made sense......i had too much caffeine today ;))
Ok, i think im done, im going home, and enjoy a nice easter weekend, and i hope, married or not, with kids (or furry kids) or not, YOU ALL enjoy a nice weekend too.........keep each one's opinion to each person....(they are not hurting anyone...is not like they are doing drugs while pregnant or something....) and get pass this thread........(or not....;))

Hey Perty! you stole my line!! lol ......about the anger in people causes wrinkles.........;))
How are you doing girl? keep us posted ok?

Ya'll take care...

[pertykitty]

hi ladies. im doing very well. im almost surprised that the only thing people can keep calling me is old lol. funny since most dont even think i look 30. i cant wait for easter, its always so much fun, we have an adult egg hunt and there are movie tickets, money, gag jokes. its brutal lol. hey to the girls that keep opening new posts, calling me old or a cow, is that how you talk to everyone you dont agree with? name calling? maybe you should take a class on verbal discussions and find a more productive way to do so. im curious though, if i did go to church, then i can preach? cause ill go right now if i get the right to haha.

[AndiJ78]

Hey, I am only 28 and don't have a single wrinkle, but apparently i am old as well.