Choosing to circumcise or not....?

This question was brought up at my doctors app. today. My doctors reaction was surprising.  My husband wants our baby boy to be circumcised when he's born. mainly I think because he was, and it's just his personal choice. Doesn't bother me either way (most likely because I don't have a penis of my own!) so I've left the decision up to him and explained that to my doctor. I always thought that it was less likely to get infections that way, but apparently that's a myth? Also... maybe this is TMI but I think it looks better, and glad my husbands 'area' looks the way it does. I wouldn't want my son getting older and annoyed that we didn't make that desicion.  I know it's a personal choice, and sometimes a persons faith is involed aswell. I was just surprised when my doctor urged me NOT to do it.  So this is my question....  what have you ladies heard about circumcising, good and bad. how did you decided???  thanks!

[surprisebaby]

I know , I know...gotta put in my 2 cents here.
After watching my 35 year old bil go through a circumsision this past summer, I am quite confident that I made the right decision.  Neither of my ds's can remember their surgery, and at our hospital, they gave them tylenol, before and after to help ease the pain.  (our Doctor recognized that the baby would be in pain).  It is a personal decision, but on this one, I am gonna have to side with Andi.  :)  
PS.  Andi is right, the surgery was necessary due to infection.  My dh was circumsized when he was born, but his brother was a very sick baby and they didn't want to "stress" him out any extra.
My 2nd ds had a major complication with his circ. and I still would've done it again, had my last baby been a boy.  They re-did his circ in Emergency the day after I left the hospital, because it was not done properly the first time...I was a mess, and thought I had made a HORRIBLE decision, until my bil had the surgery and it took him 3 months to recover (I am not exaggerating!!!)  He did not do well with his surgery at the age of 35.  Again, Peek, to each their own.  Just sharing personal experience on this one!

[peekawho]

Oh, yes.  They give them Tylenol.  When an adult has a circ, they give them Percocet.  Of course you can't give that to a baby. And the baby can't tell you how much they hurt.  

But as you said, different strokes for different folks.  When you can link me to the AAP or any recognized Pediatric associaton in the developed world who is recommending routine infant circumcision, then I'll agree with you.  As of now, no recognized Pediatric Association in the world recommends routine infant circumcision.  Urology Assocs do, b/c of their viewpoints as surgeons.

The majority of the worlds men are not circumcised.  The normal male anatomy was not created wrong by whatever higher power you believe in.  Circumcision took root during victorian times as a mistaken way to curb masturbation, and it stayed for good here in the US.

Again, if the person wants it as an adult and wants to go through the discomfort, great!  Go for it!  But the child does not get to choose whether or not his foreskin is cut off.  You chose that.  He didn't get a voice in deciding if the pain was worth it.  You decided that.

And it can't be undone.  If he's unhappy with it, then you made the choice that he has to suffer with forever.  That's all I'm saying.  His genitalia, his choice.

It's all good.  We're cool.  

[anxiousmomtobe?]

In Canada it is the norm to NOT circumcize.  When your son is in the locker room at school his peers will not be circumsized.  My dh wanted our son circumsized, but changed his mind as he didn't want any unnecessary procedures.

[peekawho]

My opinion is that genital surgery that is not strictly necessary, should be done with the full consent and knowledge of the persons whose genitalia is being altered.

If he wants it done later, he can have it done later.  If you have it done now and later he is unhappy, it can't be undone.  

When an older child or adult is circumcised, adequate general and local anesthesia is used and stronger pain medication can be administered afterwards for pain control.  All a newborn gets is a local.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.  Regardless of adequacy of anesthesia, the circ gets done.

I've seen countless circs.  Yes, some babies snooze through them.  Most don't.  Let the person who owns the genitals decide how they should look, unless it is an emergency and you as a parent must make that decision.  

[AndiJ78]

We didn't do it for aesthetic reasons, we did it for cleanliness issues. And no, it is not a myth about higher occurence of infections, but it is not considered enough of a risk for the procedure, I worked with the elderly when I was a CNA and nurse and the un-circ'd men had a higher incidence of infection, especially since most couldn't care for their own penis as they aged. Also, around 10 years ago my father had to undergo circumcision due to complications with herpes (I know TMI) and another friends grandfather had to undergo a circ in his 60's. Not something I would want our kids to go through as adults. Recovery as in infant is far less teaumatic in the long run than as an adult.

It really is a personal decision. Many advocate against, many advocate for. Both possess compelling reasons to support their position.

[peekawho]

It can always be done later.  I reject the thought that just because infants can't verbalize their pain, that the procedure is less painful for them.  They just can't remember it, is all.  They get inadequate anesthesia many times, and absolutely less than adequate pain control afterwards.

They just can't talk about it.  

Andi and I always disagree on this issue.  That's ok, we're two different peeps.  That's what makest the world go round.  

[mami2karina]

I'm having a boy in October and I am NOT having him circumcised, the father is Mexican and in Mexico, they DO NOT circumcise.  I know it's my decision, but I don't want to cause my child unnecessary pain.  And as long as you take care of your baby and clean them you don't have to worry about infection.  Honestly, I've never been with a man who was cirumcised and it doesn't make a difference, it still works the same.  It's your decision, but if it's not the norm where you live and it's done to him he may have problems with his peers later on.  Good luck in whatever decision you make.

[marra]

is it an usa thing to be done ? im in uk and we dont do it here , for what reason is it done ?just cleanliness ?  sorry im just curious ! i think its un needed procedure a person should make as an adult if they wish too . my cousin had it done at 35 due to curvature of the penis but we dont do babies really . sorry im no help but culture is a funny thing ! my theroy is if it aint broke dont fix it ! good luck in your decision x x

[mgi]

I agree it looks much better!
and when they are older it looks funny not done and it is harder to clean
they give the baby anesthesis - it lasts for several hours and the pain is gone long before it wears off - my boys were circumcised and didn't even cry this time!
I agree with your hubby on this one

and who in the world wants to go through it as an adult???  ouch and youve already passed the embarrassing years

[twiceadopt]

we're jewish, so had both our boys circumcised at birth. they gave them a nipple of sugar water to suck on and i believe local anesthetic, and that was it - no crying or fussing during the extremely-brief procedure, and no fussiness afterwards.

[missrockette]

well i'm having a baby boy in october we have choosen not to cause there is a higher risk of the bub getting golden staf and we saw horrible pictures on the net of what the little has to go through if this does occur. i would wait until they are bit older to when they have some immunity to fight of infection. (my name was misslollipop but med hel has changed it)

[AndiJ78]

Actually, mine got percocet through my breastmilk, remember CJ broke my tailbone during delivery ; ) T and Bub both got vicodin through my breastmilk, so my kids faired just fine. All my boys received locals and once that kicked in did very well. They all cried more with vaccinations or their PKU's than with the circ's.

Really, the AAP just recently reversed its opinion on it being NECESSARY, but they do not advocate against it and they do still recognize the benefits of circumcision. Give it a few years, they will probably change their mind.

The Amercian Urology Association advocates for it as they recognize the association between penile cancer and not being circumcised as well as higher rates of infections, both in children and adults. The rates of penile cancer are higher in regions that do not routinely practice circumcision and the link to herpes and penile cancer in uncirc'd men has also been demonstrated. Why on earth would urologists support it for their own benefit? As an infant, the pedi does it, but as an adult a urologist would. Wouldn't it make more sense for them to speak out against it in infancy so they can reap the benefits of lining their pockets when a man comes in as an adult for the procedure? I mean, if it is just cosmetic anyway as some assert?

Again, peek and I NEVER agree on this issue and never will. But we repsect each has their own POV.

[mum2beagain]

My first was born in England, it was never even suggesetd that we might circumcise. My second was born in Canada, I was asked if we wanted him to have it but was told generally it isn't done here either.

Here is some interesting information copied from the pediatric advisor;

What is the history of circumcision?

Followers of the Jewish and Moslem faiths perform circumcision for religious reasons. Nonreligious circumcision became popular in English-speaking countries between 1920 and 1950. At this time it was thought that circumcision might help prevent sexually transmitted diseases. Circumcision never became a common practice in most parts of the world. Over 80% of the men in the world are not circumcised.

What is the purpose of the foreskin?

The foreskin on the penis is not some cosmic error. The foreskin has a purpose.

It protects the glans (glands) (top of the penis) against urine, feces, and other types of irritation.
It protects against infection or scarring of the urinary opening (although this is rare).
It protects the sensitivity of the glans (glands).

What are the pros?

Some of the reasons you may want to circumcise are:

Protects against urinary tract infections (UTIs) during the first year of life. However, UTIs are rare and easily treated.
Prevents infections under the foreskin. It also prevents persistent tight foreskin. Both of these problems are rare and are usually due to pulling back the foreskin too often or too hard.
Decreases the risk of getting some sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) later in life, including HIV. However, it does not completely prevent any STD.
Lowers the risk of cancer of the penis. However, good hygiene offers equal protection against this very rare cancer.
Keeps your son's appearance "like other boys" or "like his dad." Boys may not mind looking different from other men in their family. However, they do mind being harassed in the locker room or shower about their foreskin. This could happen if most of their buddies are circumcised.

What are the cons?

Some of the reasons not to circumcise include:

Problems with surgery. Problems that may occur are skin or bloodstream infections, bleeding, gangrene, scarring, and various surgical accidents. One study showed that 1 of every 500 circumcised newborns suffered a serious side effect.
Pain. The procedure causes pain. However, the doctor can use some anesthetic around the area to block some of the pain.
Cost. You may have to pay for the surgery yourself because many insurance companies do not cover the cost.
You must decide quickly. If you initially decide not to have your son circumcised, and then change your mind after your son is 2 months old, the procedure will require a general anesthesia. So try to make your final decision during the first month of life.
Recommendations
Circumcision of boys for religious purposes will continue. The need to circumcise other boys is open to question. Just because a father was circumcised doesn't mean that the son needs to be. Because the foreskin comes as standard equipment, you might consider leaving it intact, unless your son will be going to a school where everyone else is likely to be circumcised. The risks and benefits are both too small to swing the vote either way. This is a parental decision, not a medical decision.


Also many don't realise that there is no special care needed for an uncircumcised childs penis and infact you should never try to retract an infants foreskin, by the time the foreskin separates from the penis a child will be old enough to be taught how to care for it themselves. My hubby was circumcised as a child at about 4 years old for medical reasons, he remembers it well and wouldn't want any child of his to go through it at any age, even a  baby, he isn't in the least bit concerned that his children won't 'look' like he does. I agree with the other poster who said "If it ain't broken, don't fix it!" but that is my view and  I hope the other information I posted will help you with your decision whatever it may be.

[lovethebops]

I will be having a baby in Dec., and though we don't know what the sex of this baby as of now, we will elect to NOT have this procedure done should they baby be a boy. There are so many reasons why I would never do this. I am on the east coast of the US and was suprised to find that 80% of ppl here have this done to their sons, while the % is only 30-40 on the west coast. Like MAmi2karina, I have never be with a man who was circ, and it makes not a world of difference to me visually, sexually, or physically. My husband is not circ'd, and he has never in his life had an infection or otherwise complications from not having it done. Personally, my husband would have to give me a better reason than the macho reasoning of:"well I'm circ'd, so should my boy!"...Since he is not, this is not at all the reason we are choosing to not have it done. I have watched a circumsion also, and this poor little boy I saw definately did NOT sleep thru it. They literally had all his limbs strapped down, while the doc scrapped away his flesh for several minutes...and it was more bloody than I ever thought they were! I am not telling you this to scare you, it was an honest scene, and I'm just telling you what I saw. It brought tears to my eyes, and seems almost tantamount to torture. There is also a Canadian based website called infocirc.com or org...can't remember now, and it shows the different methods of circumsion they use today, along w/ graphic photos of adults that have suffered complications of having circ. done as a baby. I know as strongly as I feel about not having this done, some ppl feel strongly about doing it, but know that it is definately not nessecary. My vote is with Peeka, She brought up a good point of giving the man the opportunity to chose what he wants, when he can have better options of pain relief, just because they are baby's doesn't mean they can't feel pain, they just can't tell you how bad it hurts...I think things should be left as nature intended. Again, just my personal feelings, I respect every mother's right to chose what they feel is best for their own child. Good luck!

[crystalluvsjim]

My DH and I chose not to have our son circumcised. First off because my DH wasn't and his father wasn't and his father's father wasn't...and so on. We were told many times by the NICU staff that circumcisions are not medically necessary, it's personal choice for cosmetic or religious reasons. We also felt our son had been through enough and yes they do feel the pain, if not during the procedure then afterwards while it's healing.  I also heard that later in life the circumcised penis can become desensitized, therefore causing problems such as erectile disfunction. As for cleanliness, if boys are taught how to clean properly that shouldn't be an issue. My DH is 36 y/o and has never had any infections or problems. Anyway, best of luck to you all with your baby boys, I'm sure you'll choose what's best for your sons. God Bless

Crystal  

[have 2 kids]

My son was circumcized after birth.  He slept thru it and wasn't fussy afterwards.  The area was a little red for the 1st day but never became bloody or icky looking.    My husband wanted him circumcized so he would look like him.  I wanted it done for cleanliness issues.  As young boys it's hard to get them to bath regularly without a fight and I certainly don't see them taking the time to properly pull back the skin and clean the area as needed.        

[mum2beagain]

so long as you got it back and it is not stuck retracted over the head of the penis it should be okay to see the doc tomorrow, if it is stuck go to ER, the swelling may get worse if it is not sorted out. BTW how old is your son? If he is only an infant or toddler you should not really be pulling the foreskin back anyway, if he is sitting in the tub on a regular basis that should be sufficient to keep it clean.

[lovethebops]

I respect your choice, although I don't agree with it. Not every single grown man at any point as an adult who is not circ'd will have such complications as you have described your BIL to have. I have also know Grown men who for one reason or another have had to have this done later in life, and some have taken a while to heal, as you described. I certainly wouldn't base my choice to circ on the fact that if not,  some thing may go wrong with it in the future. As many complications as a man can have not being circ'd, Many man who have been circ'd as baby's have also had complications as well, as I have seen on many informative websites. (eww, gross)..I just wanted ppl to know that being circ'd can have complications in the future as an adult just as much as someone who doesn't. As I said above, my DH is a grown man who is not, and he has never had a problem ever...There is no reason why a boy, who is properly trained, can't keep himself clean. Also, YOu can't take it back. My Mom had my brother circ'd as a baby and she wishes she could take it back. She simply said she did it because it was the thing to do back then. She said she could hear my Bro screaming down the hall in the hospital, and she cried hysterically...To this day she realizes it is completely unneeded and wishes she could take it back.   To each his own....

[surprisebaby]

i never said ALL boys who are not circ. will be infected, in fact i was just sharing my story.  i couldn't agree more, it is a very personal decision!  one should not be made to feel guilty for the choice that they need to make.  we don't regret our decision...right or wrong!  the only drawback was, our ds's were done right at birth and they took 9 months b4 they could walk!  lol  

[lovethebops]

I'm sorry, I wasn't attacking you, I hope you didn't think that! I feel just heartbroken after seeing it done, I think more ppl would if they saw it, I didn't think it was so bad until I actually saw the procedure done...I just can't imagine doing it to my own son...I already have a dd, so it wasn't an issue before, obviously, lol. My husband saw the procedure as well, and he couldn't agree more...I realize it is a personal choice, no harm meant!

[have 2 kids]

I agree it's a totally personal decision.   I have seen a circumcision before and it wasn't as gruesome as described above but I'm sure it all depends on the experience of the DR performing it.  My son's was very quick  it was  completed within minutes.  
I'm sure all of you will make the decision that is best for your family.

[vsentz]

EXCUSE ME......

Most of the times I have agreed with you....but I have to ask you to please DO NOT generalize about the circumcision in MEXICO.
That is a lie, I have to say, in my country (Mexico) WE DO CIRCUMCISE (sorry sp?) and it is better for the mentioned above reasons to circumsice the poor boy.....now, each one their own decision, and I am not gonna discuss that, but please, before generalizing about a whole country's action about something, inform yourself. I do not, by any means want to sound rude to you, I really like you, it just makes me jump when people say something as a true statement so confident when it is absolutely false.

Thank you.

[lovethebops]

Yes, that is true, when they are erect, the skin pulls back and they look like they don't have a foreskin, unless you look at the bottom...Good point, I was thinking that, but forgot to put it in my post when I said it makes no difference to me visually.

And to others who were interested: the website I mentioned in my other post was infocirc.org not .com

[lilmama4]

I was reading everyone insert and I am a parent who decided not get my son circumcised. But today for one reason or another when I was pulling the foreskin back to clean him. I guess I pulled alittle to hard and it when all the back. It's a little swollen and I was wondering for anyone who has ever done this do i need to take him to the emergency room or can it wait to go to the doctor during normal office hours. Because insurance doesn't pay for none emergency visits to the er.

[nanis]

Well I have a 12 yr old son & CHOOSE not to circumzise(sp?).My Dh is also circumziced  & has never had any sort of infection or problems with poor hygene.I am MEXICAN but am not from mexico.And no one in my family nor in dh is "fixed".But I think, like I said its a Choice.And every one has their own choice.I dont think it's any different & when erect they all look the same.Plus I heard men enjoy sex better when NOT circumsized.Just putting my 2 cents in.I am now pregnant (29 wks) with a girl,but had it been a boy I would have not circumzied either.

Hey V,miss you mami.....Just being cheese..mosa..lol :P

[nanis]

Sorry meant to say"MY DH IS NOT CIRCUMZICED" :P

[surprisebaby]

M boys Who are now 8 and 7 have absolutely no memory of the "pain" when they were done.  You should ask my brother in law about the pain! (not to mention the embarassment)

[vsentz]

I miss you too nena preciosa!!!!!!! how's my little Julie doing (and mommy of course!) today?? =))

I agree, it's a matter of choice......, and to be quite honest, (I shouldn't talk about my intimate life...but, oh well...) I've had only 3 boyfriends, (I married the third), and 2 were from my country (Mexico). One had not been circumsized, the second was and my hubby (American) is too.

With my boyfriend that wasn't circumsized, when we had sex, it was sometimes painful for him when the foreskin would be pulled back too much, we never got to the point of pulling it all the way (to uncover the glans (glands)), so I really never got to 'see the naked penis'....per se....(sorry if this is TMI!).....and it would........ehemm......smell!!!! hahahaha (again, sorry!), seriously, i don't know why, he was a neat-freak, he showered everyday and swore he'd wash it well 'down there'.....but to give him an oral treat was not crossing my mind! lol

Anyway, with the other two, (my second, and my third,-hubby) didn't have any problem. I can literally go 'bananas' with the thing and would not bother them! lol!!! (oh......i feel so vulnerable.....)
But, of course, each one their own decision. As for me, I like how men look without the foreskin........(and smell....) lol.....(don't take offense PLEASE to the girls that don't circumsize their babies, please, it was probably something he wasn't doing right when showering...???)

Ohhh..........anywho.........
;)

[surprisebaby]

Man...have you got a way with words...LMFAO!!!!  Way too funny girl...I just spit my coffee half way across the room!!  An ORAL TREAT!!!  I gonna remember that one! hehehe

[pinecone]

Yes circumsize.  I had my sons penis circumsized and it is clean and when they are young it heals fast and my husband is circumsized and likes that his is.  Looks good and feels good and is clean.  Easy to clean.  No skin getting a film or build up.  Think of your little man.  He will be able to keep it clean and as a adult  and teen ager he will thankyou that it is.

[Alje]

I refused to do it to my son. Just as well, because I ended up marrying a man from Ireland where they do not do circs. My husband is the only father my son has ever know.
When my son was a baby I caught hell for not doing it. I was in college at the time and needed some topic to write a paper on. So, I studied it. I learned a lot, and it horrified me. I was so thankful I didn't do it! Do you know that they do slip up once in a while with the knife. They have really messed some little boys up. I was so shocked.
It also does not have anything to do with cleanliness or cancer. The only way they would get cancer down there is if they didn't ever bathe. (at least that is what his dr told me). They do not do circs. in other countries and not every one is walking around with penial cancer or infections.
When they are a baby it is easier to take care of as well. Their foreskin does not go back until they are around 4, so they are the easiest to clean when they are not circ. If you do it, you will have to watch for infection and yes it does happen.
It is only for reglious reason that it was started. The hebrews used to do it on boys that were entering into puberty. The boys would scream and try to escape. So, someone got the bright idea to do it on babies because they were helpless and could not run away. It did not start with the heberws, though. A lot of tribes would do gentile mutliations to their children and babies. Some would 1/2 casterations and other odd things.
Anyway, people got weird about 100 years ago. They thought it would stop boys from masterbating (masturbating) (which was bad back then). Ha ha, fooled them. But remember that is was also bad and dirty to have a period as well. When the masterbation (masturbation) thing didn't work, they used the cleanliness excuse.
In all honesty, there really isn't a reason for it. My son is 12. He has been in a locker room with other boys, and no one has said anything. In fact kids now days are different then when we were growing up. A lot of boys are not circed anymore. I think the majority or them in the US are not (from the last thing I heard about it). Most of the other countries around the world do not do it either.
I think it would be better to let your son decide when he is of age to make that decsion. To me it seems just like plastic surgery since it is just for looks anyway, and I have never heard of anyone getting their newborn a nose job so he looks more like his dad.
I am sorry if I sound too against it. I just saw what could go wrong, and I have a problem with a baby having to go through pain when they are so new to the world. Especially, when there is no medical reason for it.
Hugs,
Jenny

[vsentz]

;)



.....boy, knives that slip up......ladies, please don't have babies in non-reputable places (aka. butcheries)......=0

I personally would not care if my son/daughter have half her leg out of me....I'll still drive to Johns Hopkins to give birth! (or the nearest reputable hospital for the ones that doesn't live in the Baltimore area).

"A statistical review of the past medical files of more than 300 couples in Uganda in which the female partner was HIV negative and the male was HIV positive provides solid documentation of the protective effects of male circumcision in reducing the risk of infection among women. Male circumcision also reduced rates of trichomonas and bacterial vaginosis in female partners. The study is believed to be the first to demonstrate the benefits to female partners of male circumcision.

Specifically, male circumcision reduced by 30 percent the likelihood that the female partner would become infected with the virus that causes AIDS, with 299 women contracting HIV from uncircumcised partners and only 44 women becoming infected by circumcised men. Similar reductions in risk were observed for the other two kinds of infection but not for other common STDs, including human papillomavirus, syphilis, gonorrhea and chlamydia.

The study was led by Johns Hopkins researchers Ronald Gray, professor in the School of Public Health

[vsentz]

oops, forgot the link: http://www.jhu.edu/~gazette/2006/13feb06/13hiv.html