Doctor told me to do the Ferber Method!

I took Julian to the Ped today and we were talking about the sleep problems that he has been having. For the last month or so Julian has been going to bed around 8:30 or 9 and he will sleep until 12:30 or 1 then wake up every hour to hour! So being the tired Idoit that I am put him in bed with me and he sleeps ok!  She mentioned that I try using the Ferber method, but I feel awful trying. HE goes to bed super easy its the going back to slep after waking that is the problem. He is only 7 months and I feel like with all the problems he is having and has had that it would be cruel, but I am not getting any sleep and am physically exhausted! Is this the thing to do or can anyone else give me some tips to try before going to this method? Thanks

[babyscience]

Well my 13 month old is going through the same thing right now.  I wouldnt have been able to do it if he was under a year old, but I had to eventually just let him cry.  We are finally going on a good stretch of him sleeping.  I just let him cry, he would fall asleep within 30 minutes of it and if I went in there it only made things worse.
But putting them in bed with you is only prolonging the problem, I learned that the hard way....so I still never slept and I was creating an even worse problem.  Instead of going into get him, see if he will fall back asleep.  I wouldnt let him cry for more than 15 min.  Go in there calm him or rock him...try giving him a bottle, then put him back into his crib.  He is old enough to know if he wakes up enough you will get him and put him into your comfy bed.  My ds learned that very quick!
Do you think he could be teething?? When my ds was that age, some nights I would give him a little tylenol and he would finally be able to sleep, so it could be teething.
Good luck, I dont have much advice as I am trying to figure it all out too!

[AnnieBrooke]

My doctor recommended the Ferber method to me, but she is at least 69 years old and doesn't act like she has ever had a refresher course, so I ignored it.  (Actually, tried it one night, and my son cried literally all night, with only a few 15-minute periods of sleep folded over on his front.  He looked like he had the measles by morning, and that was it.  Never again.)  I was nursing when my son went through his waking-in-the-night period, so I just brought him to bed at the first crying jag, and would nurse side-lying, and in fact got a lot of sleep that way.  I'm sure we both got to the point where we were doubtless doing it IN our sleep.  If you are really being awakened every hour, that has to change.  Any help with some sort of version of what babyscience is talking about, from your dh?  Men can get up and give bottles quite well, especially if their wife is there to kick them out of bed.

[Michele, Katy, TX]

I just think 7 months old is too young for that.  IMO anyway......I am pregnant with #6 and my youngest is sleeping with me right now.  When you breastfeed (I don't anymore but do when they are born), you will do anything for a few winks of sleep.  Especially if you work and/or have other children to take care of.  Do I sometimes wonder if I will ever have my bed or bedroom back???  Sure do, but I also know that in the grand scheme of things, they are only little for a short period of time.

I know it stinks right now, but I think the sleeping problems will take care of themselves in time.  With my 19 month old, the first year was hell.  So, I know how you feel, but it will get better.

I wish I had some better advice.  Oh, I do recommend Baby Mozart (DVD) from the Baby Einstein collection.  For my youngest, I used to have to put that on for her everynight when she would go to bed.  I'd just put the thing on repeat.  She associated that with bed, so she knew when I put that on, it was time for her to go to sleep and she did.  You may want to try that.  It may help you tremendously.  And by putting it on repeat, it seemed to help her sleep for longer periods of time.

Good luck and keep us posted

[Darkestlight]

I did it when my DD was 7 months old. She had to stop sleeping in the bed with us. DH came home after us not being together for a yr. We needed our time. Crying isnt going to hurt a baby

[babyscience]

To what anniebrook said.  For some reason by me entering the room it caused ds to want me to cuddle and rock, for at least an hour....whereas DH going in there was a different routine.  Haha, it took me being sick with a really bad flu in order for this to work...it forced DH to do it!  But DH would walk into the room, hand him a bottle then walk out.
This actually might not work since your son is so young and probably cant hold a bottle really well.  But I think sometimes breaking the routine, needs a secondary person....because most of the routines babies establish is with one caregiver.

[jenstam]

It worked for us when our son was 15 months old. I wouldn't do it any younger than 12 months though. It took 3 days and broke our hearts but it was well worth the good nights sleep we all got. I just think 7 months is too young for that.

[babyprayers]

well I am glad I read this post My DD I have twins they are 51/2 months, one sleep all night, the other is very high strung, thrashing all over the crib like she is uncomfrotable I put her in bed with me and she goes right to sleep I put her back in her crib and she cries, I am not sure if babies can manipulate at this age, but I am glad to see its not just me that goes thru this.

[GRose]

I had to do it with my son when he was that age, it was the only thing that worked for us,  he just wouldn't sleep, it was getting ridiculous. I think that under 5 months in too young for it but 7 months is not. Babies need to learn to self soothe, they need to learn how to fall asleep without mom or dad. Have you tried a soother for his crib, something that has lights and music? That helped Noah A LOT, we took it on vacations with us and everything.

[BabyHardiman]

I would give it a shot, and if it doesn't work after a couple of days, then wait a few weeks and try again.  If you need to do it for your sanity.  If Mommy is not happy NO ONE is happy.

[jenstam]

I have to kindly disagree with some of the above posts. A child does need to learn to self soothe at some point, but we don't expect our children to make food for themselves, pick out their clothes, etc, etc...at this young and tender age. They are only these little babies once and I don't think it is reasonable for some babies to be expected to self soothe at such a young age. Some babies may be ready, some may not be. But I don't think the issue should ever be forced for convencience sake. Give it a try, if it doesn't work, allow your child to do what feels most comforting. Try again in a month or two. You will know when your child is ready to self soothe. We tried three different times and it was apparent that our son was not ready until 15 months. We didn't try until he was nearly 12 months old, either. They have all of their lives to self sooth and to be away from Mommy and Daddy. Infancy is such a short, special time.

[jenstam]

PS-we use Baby Mozart for our son, too! Michele, Katy, TX! It is part of his bedtime routine. It works! It's soothing for babies and toddlers. We also have five children. I know we talked about this last week. We will be on board for baby #6 soon (we think!)!

I wholeheartedly agree with you though. They are only little once! Cherish it.

[AnnieBrooke]

Maybe a toddler or child needs to learn to self-soothe, but a little infant is learning other things, like how to breathe at night without stopping and what those bright lights are in the ceiling, and just is not mature in any way, and it seems too early for the Marine Corps coming in and saying it is time for them to toughen up.  Adults tend to give very small infants adult motives and emotions, and it is just not true.  All an infant is usually concerned about is bonding and staying comfortable.

[pcarsey]

I have tried really hard to stay away from this post, but just can't. (IMO) I really am appalled that people would even suggest such a thing. We are talking about little babies who spent the first 9 - 10 months of their developing lives cuddled nice, snuggley and warm in mommy's tummy, listening ever so intently to her every heartbeat, being soothed by her every bounce, feeling the most protected... knowing the sound of mommy's voice more then anyones and when they hear it at just a few days old they feel the love they have felt for so long while in mommy's tummy.....  And now all of a sudden they are to fend for themselves? And learn to self soothe? To me that is totally absurd.

I have a nephew who is 13 months old, he fell and conked his head on the couch, no he wasn't bleeding or anything but he was crying wanting someone (preferably his mommy or daddy) to pick him up and soothe him, His dad (my BIL) just looked at him and said in the most stern voice " figure it out Noah". That was it! I wanted to cry with him! So did DH! I said all teary eyed, isn't anyone going to console him? NOONE did! So I walked over to him and leaned down, he doesn't know me that well so ofcourse he started crying harder. His dad said, he's okay, he'll figure it out. Then started raving about his cousin and how they raise their kids (military style) and how well their kids listen to them. I spoke up and said.. only because they are scared to death of them!! We left! I can clearly see some some childhood wounds being inflicted in those children that they are going to have to "figure out for themselves" when they grow up! It makes me really sad!

When I became a mother I knew that there was going to be a period in my life that wasn't going to be the most pleasant, but would be the most rewarding none the less!

I am not trying to be mean here.. but ask yourself this... if/when you drop them off at a sitter does it break your heart to hear them cry? Does hearing that make you want to rush back in there hold them, tell them mommy is here, everything is alright? Does it make you hurt so bad inside that you would really love to wuit your job so you can spend every day with them raising them so no one else will while you are working? Would you do anything to make sure your child is well taken care of, and make sure they are happy? If they fall down and get hurt do you rush to them and take care of their wound?.. put medicine on it if it is needed or perhaps a bandaid? Kiss them when they get stung by a bee just because they want you to because that would at least make them feel better, even if it doesn't take the sting away?

(IMO) Putting a baby who knows nothing else other then the little things they are learning everyday very slowly.. who knows that when they are hurting (mentally, physically, or emotionally) knows that mommy is going to be there for them...... putting that baby in a room and trying to teach them how to "self soothe", well that is just wrong to me! Like many have said, they are only little once.. when they get to be so big they don't want to have their mommy there and trust me it WILL happen, then mommy is going to CRY......  I never let my babies cry it out ever.... and the day they didn't want me there anymore..... I Cried!

Again... I am not being mean... all this is just my opinion! Whatever you do, I hope it works and you get some rest soon! Good Luck!!!

[pcarsey]

oops.. I didn't realize my post was so long! I seriously didn't mean for it to look like I was telling anyone off!

[GRose]

Of course I feel bad when my son cries at a sitter, it breaks my heart and it also made me sad when he was 8 months and crying in his crib. I am telling you there was no other way, he would not go to sleep. I am not saying that I left him in there for extended periods of time, I would go in every 15 min. tell him I was there, that it was Ok, rock him, cover him up turn his soother on etc. Not all babies are the same and I would never suggest letting a 2 month old cry it out. All I am saying is that it is worth a try and if it doesn't work try something else.
When Noah falls down  we don't give him that much attention because we have found that he only cries if someone goes "Oh are you OK Noah" or makes a big deal of the fall., Of course, if it is a big fall or it is obvious that he got hurt I will go comfort him but Noah from a young age learned to tough it out. When he falls down he says OWE and then goes on playing, heck, half the time he laughs when he falls down.
I realize I sound a little harsh but I really am not, Noah does have a loving home but at the same time I think he is stronger because of how we have raised him. He is a caring boy, when he sees babies fall or people crying he goes to hug them.
Everyone has different parenting styles and that doesn't make any of them better or worse than the other. Unless of course that style includes beating or neglecting your child.

[Linzola1]

Well last night I was going to give it a shot, but when Julian took his bottle he fell asleep and I put him in the crib. He did wake up around 11 and wanted to play. DH went in and gave him the rest of his bottle and laid him in the crib sleepy but awake and turned on the mobile and he fell asleep on his own and slept until 6am, so really I cant complain. He also had a formula chnge from Similac Alimentum to Enfamil AR which I guess is a little thicker, maybe that has somethingto do with it! I am sorry I was not trying to cause a controversy, I am just trying to get some tips on what to try! Thank you ladies!

[Mary 53]

Hi,

I googled "Solve Your Child's Sleep Problem, Dr. Richard Ferber" and found five posts. There is newer information posted under the post "Ferberizing" regarding the 2006 editition of Ferber's book. Under another post I found my (incredibly longggg) post. I am happy to repost this ... sounds like you had a good night, though, last night! I hope it continues.

I just wanted to add, though, that Ferber has a great section on how to help eliminate night time feedings, which is something he feels you must address before you can really address the sleep problem (I am talking about more than a sip of formula, etc)... it has to do with insulin being released around the time of night that they have typically been eating. He has some great tips in there regarding this issue. I think I mention in my long post that I actually got to know a doctor whose husband brought their kids to our parent education program for years... this doctor worked with Ferber. Great person... great kids... and, my own kid is now 23 and doing well. Hang in there. I hope these suggestions and thoughts help.

I will post it in a second...

Mary

[Mary 53]

Sorry... I meant to say that I "Searched" Medhelp... not google... and that is how I found my old post along with a handful of thread all about sleep and such.

Here is the post:
*****************************************************************************************


I am impressed with how supportive you all are of one another.

First of all I will add that I agree that the method I am going to talk about would not be used until the child is 6 months (I won't split hairs here as some books recommend 4 months...I guess I am more comfortable with 6 months since you are building that trust between birth and 6 months, ahthough having said that, there are some babies who do need to have a sort of "fussy time" after you put them down and it is not like you are leaving them to cry on and on ... I worked with parents who reported that their 3 or 4 month old would fuss for approximately 10 mintues and then fall asleep on their own.... but I think you all know what I mean in that this is not the same as crying it out).


And, it is funny, too, because when my daughter was a baby, "Crying it out" meant you let the child cry and cry and cry and not go in at all to let them know you have not abandonded them..... Talk about Horrible, huh?  That is what some doctors of that time were advising. Fortunetly, my doctor recommended the Ferber method and I will be eternally greatful for that. I'll tell you, when the Ferber method came along, it was a God-send....and to this day I never think of that method as a form of "crying it out" but again, it is with the perspective of thinking back to 1985.

I am a licensed Parent Educator and used to work with families regarding the sleep issue. I am teaching in a different field now but I do want to share with you what happened to me...us...and also tell you how I worked with families going thru this.

We had a horrible time with the sleep issue...in an apartment...spouse working crazy hours....COLIC...COLIC  ...you get the picture. My daughter did not learn to sleep all night until she was about 15 months. I was sooo desparate by then. Life/marriage falling apart...and to be honest, a Not-So-Healthy child in that once she slept through the night she was sooo different...Since then I have studied more and more on this and this whole area is so facinating....sleep cycles/health/growth...melatonin, etc...they need that sleep for brain (and body) growth and let's face it, so do we! And, above all, don't ever forget that Sleep Begets Sleep....So, once you get them sleeping, you can expect more and more of the same. That is the great news.

I used Dr. Richard Ferber's method "Solve Your Child's Sleep Problem."

I had heard of him as my sister worked in a hospital in Boston and knew of him. And, my daughter's doctor appreciated his work. I admit I deviated a bit on his method...I went in to check on her (only if she was still crying) after five minutes...and kept doing the five minute check until I heard her calm down. It took 2 and a half days and that kid slept even at nap time....and the first night was the worst (45 min of crying until it winded down) but I was going in every five minutes.......you just go in and say softly, "Mommy's here...it is not play time...I love you...I will see you in the morning" (I paraphrased) but this way they know you are there and that you are not gone....but, you must let them learn to soothe themselves and that is what you are teaching them. You are also helping them regulate their sleep cycles.

Years later, I had the VERY good fortune to meet a person who worked with Dr. Ferber. The person came to the program where I taught Parent Education for years. I told her that I had played around a bit with Ferber's method in that I went in that first night every five min...and the second night every 7 min....(and that I sent my husband to his Mom's and that I put blankets on the wall so as not to disturb the neighbors in the apartment building, but luckily this did not scare my child!)...but the person I spoke with said, "Hey...it is a behavoiral method...you essentially followed the plan and it worked."  I have to tell you that I used it on our dog, too, when she was a puppy ten years ago. It worked in two days (she'd been bothered by a urinary infection and got her sleep cycles all mixed up)..... I went to the kennel where as a puppy she was sleeping (She is 11 now and sleeps with me!) but I went to the kennel one time after she whined for 5 minutes and spoke softly to her....left.... continued whining....went again to speak to her softly ten min. after that and that puppy went back to sleep and slept for three more hours!



Well, I am happy to report that the kid I did the Ferber method on is now 22 (now 23 as of this writing), graduated from college finishing 5 years in 4, and now works for a very cool family as a Nanny to two small boys...travels with them all over the country...and, when she is home, she Nanny's three days a week and on weekends for the family and works as an Intern in a Photography studio. ....She is a neat kid.


I used to have parents who wanted to try the method in my class and many of them knew my daughter and spouse...and knew we did not damage her for life. But, I totally get that you need to be ready to do this....You will know when the time is right.

I wanted to add one more thing...I think I loved Ferber because he never put the blame on anyone, you know?  He said, "Hey...whatever method you used to get your baby to sleep for however long this has been going on is not working anymore....we have a solution for you." I used to get all that "you are spoiling her" stuff....Just listen to your heart and that plus advice you are comfortable with will get you through.


Also remember that the greatest gift Parents can give a child is a great relationship between themselves. This is tough the first year of the baby's life, but do keep at nuturing that relationship, so if the sleep thing is an issue and  your baby is old enough to try this method, again, I just wanted to say that it works and that you are actually teaching your child a good lesson in Their own self-esteem in that they will inately know that THEY CAN DO THIS.... THEY can comfort themselves.

I swear our baby was a much happier child once she started really sleeping (She was getting up about 8 times a night......   :(       Once she was really rested on a consistent basis with that deep wave and REM sleep as well (that is when they typically wake up if they don't know how to self-sooth) it is like a Personality switch is turned on. It is very cool...and, they will love you for it.


There was a big uproar a few years ago disputing Ferber and I still don't know what all the fuss was about...They were saying He did not agree with his own method anymore...I thought WHAT?????.....but, again, I don't know what the fuss was all about. I saw him on a TV morning show around that time and all it seemed to me was he was encouraging people to use their intuition if they do the program...which is what I think I did by fiddling around with the times and such.

Best of luck.

Mary

[40smama]

Linzola - I could've written your post.  I have no opinions (yet anyway) on the self-soothing thing because I honestly don't know what the proper age is for a child to begin doing this.  My 9 month old baby likes to wake up in the middle of the night and have a party!  What we are doing is this:  my husband's the one who's getting up w/Noah at night because when I do, he's set to stay up for 2+ hours at a time.  We are only giving him water & walking him and that usually lulls him back to sleep - I said we when it's really my dh.  Our pedi assures us that No doesn't need any real nutrition at night so that's the reason for water.

The thing is that my baby's been doing this since 3 months of age so his partying ways have got to come to a stop if mommy's going to keep her sanity.  It sounds like you're on the right road to getting this figured out - happy sleeping!

[ava1988]

23 years later I STILL regret ever trying the "Ferber method".  It undermined my son's trust in me and in his world and it is dangerous and harmful.  I can see the difficulty it caused in his anxiety and insecurity.  I will never forgive myself for using this barbaric tactic on an innocent child.

[kerriberri01]

I used the ferber method on my 6 1/2 month old. It took her two nights to figure out how to put herself to sleep. TWO NIGHTS! Now she goes right to sleep anytime she is placed in her crib. She sleeps 100x better at night. This method is one of the smartest things you can do for your child. The issue that I think most people have is their own ignorance. What I think most people don't realize is that you simply don't put your child to bed & let them cry it out forever. It only starts at 3 minute intervals to which you add a minute each day. My daughter does not trust me any less. It is not dangerous or harmful. It has not caused her to have any anxiety or insecurities. It is not, in any way, barbaric. If anything, it has helped her gain independence and the ability to socialize without the fear of not having her Mommy around. If at 23 years later your son has issues, I guarentee they are not from this.