I have two sisters as most of you know. My youngest sister has a two year old, and my middle sister has a one year old.
Well, my youngest sister spanks her child ALL THE TIME, and he is ONLY 2 years old!! What can spanking a child excessivly lead to? We were spanked A LOT as children too by my ex-stepdad, but not as often or severly as she spanks her two year old.
She knows no other form of dicipline other than the quick hand. He is a sweet angel when she is not around, but when she is around him he throws fits and screams bloody murder... he throws things, he hollars and he hits other people. Is the reason he does this because she spanks him? How can we tell?
She makes me so damned MAD when I see her pull his pants down to spank him. Today, he threw a candle holder and hit my six year old nephew in the head. My sister waited about 5 minutes (until she got off the computer) to spank her two year old.. by that time he had moved on from the incident and was playing with a toy riding truck. He had NO IDEA why she was spanking him, in my opinion, but she thinks he did... how long do incidents stay in a child that youngs head?
I am frustrated with her, and I just can't stand to be around her because I know she will lay into that child, and it PI SS ES me off!! She spanked him in the mall today, right there in public.
I really would like some opinions on this matter. Does excessive spanking make a child mean? She refuses to try other forms of dicipline, like putting him in time out... she just immediatly goes for his tiny bottom. She has no patience at all, she thinks spanking is the form of dicipline he needs, but I know he is a smart bright little child.. he shows his sweetness when she is not around.
It makes me so upset to see any child be spanked, I know it's not my place to say anything, but I left my moms house in an uproar today because I am SICK of my sister hitting him like that!
I think a nice parenting class would do her some good! I work in a shelter and our rule is ABSOLUTLY NO spanking...it creates a circle of violence!!! I was spanked when I was a kid but not too often, just a few times that I can remember....but I do know that excessive spanking can be considered abuse. Sorry I am not more help!
You asked what the long term consequences? You are seeing it, once a child gets abused, they abuse their kids, who then abuse their kids.
In addition, it teaches children to lash out physically when they are frustrated or angry. We have very few "spanking" offenses in our house. I cannot even remember the last time any of my kids got a spanking. My 16 month old is into everything, he never gets spanked, instead he gets a firm "No!" and redirection. My 3 year old is chaos at times, he gets time outs and a brief explanation, and my 6 year old loses privileges and gets a more detailed explanation.
I think spanking can be an appropriate punishment in some cases, for instance running into the street. But if you are watching your kids, they shouldn't even need that. Discipline is like walking a tightrope. Too many kids these days have been raised without discipline. But discipline doesn't mean beatings. I know it is tough to bite your tongue. You need to decide how to handle this. I could not sit back and let it happen, personally. Maybe you can find a gentle, non-confrontational way to approach the subject. "I was reading a recent article in a parenting magazine on discipline (seriously American Baby just had one on this very subject) and here are some of their suggestions..." or "Did you know that many experts now realize that spanking a child only teaches them it is okay to lash out physically at their siblings and playmates?"
I think I'll do some reading online, or pick up a book or two at the library.
Yes, I think that she would benefit greatly from a parenting class. She is so totally opposite from my other sister and I. We believe in differing attention in babies, we believe in using time out for the older kids that understand the meaning of the word "no", and understand what it is they are being punished for. And I know that time out works for my two year old nephew, he HATES to sit idle, he wants to be on the go.
I think my sister would also benefit from anger management classes as well. I just don't know how people hit their children like that. I get upset to see someone dicipline their child in public. Trust me, I have been frustrated with kids in my life, I have 8 nephews, and at times I have babysat 5 at one time.... talk about a mad house! But I did not get angry enough to want to pop them. I guess there is just differences in the amount of tolerance that one has. I seem to have alot, and my sister has none.
Like others said, all she's teaching him is violence and that it's ok to hurt physically when you're mad. My daughter is VERY difficult at times and can try my patience (and does on daily basis). I, however, do not see myself hitting her. I punish her by not paying attention to her for about 5 minutes when she acts out and then I tell her that it wasn't nice of her to act the way she did. Sometimes raising my voice is in the mix but I feel that reprimending her in that matter is not as hurtful (mentally and physically) as spanking especially excessively. I hope your sister realizes that her behavior needs to be corrected before her 2 year old acts the way she'd like him to act.
I spank my 2 year old gently on the bottom (with clothes on) if there is a threat of danger and I've warned her (such as putting a finger in the a light socket). She understands that when I do that she is in major trouble and should not be doing what she's doing because she doesn't normally get spanked for anything else. But I mainly use TIME OUTS. This is very effective because she cannot stand to be ignored for a couple of minutes and will apologize.
After 5 minutes elapses and your sister just grabs him, pulls his pants down and smacks, all he thinks is, "I was just sitting here playing with my truck!" So while he does remember throwing a toy, he does NOT connect the spanking to that incident. She needs to open her mouth and explain to him that throwing toys is not acceptable and to put him in time out for 2 minutes. Then when time out is over, he needs to apologize to his mother and the child he hurt.
Spanking is obviously very controversial and probably 90% of people on here are against it. There IS a right way to do it (Dr. Dobson has articles on his website). Spanking out of anger or no self-control or for lack of better disciplining tools is NOT acceptable in any situation. All he'll learn is to fear her. And I would bet you all the money I have that that is the reason he acts up when she is around.
A 2 year old is still a baby and does not know right from wrong like an older child. This just breaks my heart. I can't imagine how I'd feel if a giant person who's 3 or 4 feet taller than me grabs my arm, yanks my pants down and hits me as hard as they can. That is just absolutely awful. She needs to put herself in HIS shoes.
I'm definitely re-thinking the entire spanking thing myself!!! Even if it's in a danger-situation. This is something I've never wanted to do and I can understand her losing her temper. But this should not be an normal every day occurence.
Okay I was thinking about this a little more. I was putting myself in your sister's shoes, in my mind. And the conclusion I came to is this: spanking gives a parent control. Negative control. Unless your sister learns and uses a different discipline approach, she won't change and she may damage her little boy's sweet spirit. Being able to take a person and hit them without them doing anything back gives a person a feeling of control.
One day he will be bigger than his momma. And one day he might not hold back from hitting her back.
I'm not against spanking as a form of discipline, but what you describe your sister as doing does sound excessive, almost abusive.
I've been using spanking, along with time out and taking away priviledges, since my son was about 18 months. He has no concerning behavioral problems and never has. He's happy, polite, sociable, and extremely affectionate and loving.
But I do NOT spank on bare skin, and I only do it as a last resort or when punishment needs to be very immediate due to extremely bad behavior or endangerment of his well-being or someone else's. And if I have to spank him in public, which is practically never, I always take him somewhere private, like a bathroom stall or to the car.
Most of the time though, I always use time out or taking away priviledges before even considering spanking. Spanking is not something I like to do, especially KNOWING that if I must resort to that discipline, my son has had a chance or two to modify his behavior before receiving the spanking. Also, I never spank him hard enough to where it hurts him for more than a second or two. I think he gets more upset with himself with the fact that he let it get that far and that he made me angry or disappointed me--he's very sensitive like that.
I can't imagine what he'd be like if I only spanked him for discipline. Poor little guy would probably be as you describe your nephew--overly sensitive to the point of aggression when I'd be around him.
I find the best time out spots are in a secluded, boring place for a child. At home, I put my son in time out in the bathroom. He has to sit on his stool in the corner of the bathroom for three minutes. In public (like at the indoor park we go to all the time, he has to sit on the bench with me, or we go out to the car and he sits in his car seat).
For a 16 month old, maybe put him in time out in a corner of a room where you'll be able to supervise him, to put him back when he tries to come out, and make sure he stays safe while he's there.
For the face-slapping issue, I'd recommend when he does it, firmly grab the hand he hit you with and give a firm "NO," explaining that hurt Mommy and if he does it again he'll go to time out. If he does it again, put him in time out saying "It's not nice to hit."
He should get the message within a day or so--I had the same "hitting" issue with my son a few months back and that's how I broke him of the habit. I took a zero-tolerance stance of him "play hitting" and real hitting, and put him in time out each time he hit, without giving him warning of time out after the first day. The hitting problem was completely stopped within four days by just using time out consistently with every offense.
Well, we tried the pantry and he got scared...
Anyhoo, that's what I do when he hits, I told him "No" loudly and told him it's not nice to hit and try to keep a straight face. He doesn't do it everyday but I just want to see if there's any other way to stop this behavior. I don't like spanking because I think it's just a bad cycle and I don't want to contradict myself by hitting him.
Also, he likes to throw things , it's frustrating and rude, any suggestions?
i would like some pointers on the throwing thing also. edward is a big thrower. when he is done with something on the highchair, whether it be his cup, bottle, or a book, it goets tossed across the kitchen. also, when he's in his playpen, he entertains himself byt hrowing every last toy out. when i put him in the playpen with no toys, he doesn't want to be in there and whines/cries the whole time. when i put up the baby gate to keep him in a certain area of the house, he throws everything over the other side of the gate as if it were the playpen. if he is pointing towards the books and you hand him one, he throws it. same with in the car. if he is fussing and i hand him something to keep him entertained, if its not the thing he wants, its gets tossed. im sure its common, but im not quite sure the best way to help him understand its wrong.
also, edward doesnt get the word "no". he is almost 14 months. i know you are just supposed to keep saying it and redirecting them away from whatever they are getting in to, but sometimes i just feel like im wasting my time. for example, his most common "no" spots are the dog's bowls and garbage can. if i see him heading towards the dog bowl, i keep a close on him and move in his direction. if he keeps at it, i say "edward, no" very firm. he looks at me most of the time and then just keeps heading towards it. either to stick his hand in it, or drop something in it. thats when i say "no" again and take his hand and turn him around. sometimes he whines/cries for me taking him away from it. then he'll go back and do it again. over and over and over until i have to either gate him in a different room. same with the garbage. he will even repeat the work "no" "no, no" and then continue to do it anyway. i don't think im making any differene saying "no", but i suppose ill continue to do it.
doll - what types of things is he doing that you think he needs time out? does he understand that he sis something wrong? edward is starting to show signs of mini-tantrums and im dreading that...
You tell him "No," but do you consistently follow up with a time out as soon as he hits? That was my problem, I was telling my son "No" and it wasn't nice, etc. but leaving it at that. When I actually started putting him in time out as soon as he'd do it, and *every* time he did it, that bad habit stopped within four days.
I agree that for such an issue, spanking is contradictory. That's why I have never once spanked my son to discipline him for hitting.
For throwing things, either take away the item he threw, like if it was a toy he was playing with and just decided to toss for the heck of it. Don't give it back for maybe half a day or so. If it's something he could care less about, then do the same thing with time out. Say throwing things is not nice and put him in time out. Each time. The consistency is the hard part for the parent, but the most important.
Find a time out spot that won't scare him, just make him upset enough to not like being stuck there. Before I moved in my house, I was living with my mom, and he was about your son's age, so I'd put him in time out in a corner of whatever room we were in on a milk stool. That way I could watch him. When he got to about two years old, I'd put him in time out on a bottom step in the stairway.
Time out just has to be a place where they have no freedom, priviledges, or activities. It doesn't have to be a place where they're locked up or isolated, like a crib in their room.
Well, I put him in time out because of his slapping and throwing the dog bowl so hard that it broke. He doesn't like to be in the pantry so maybe that's a good spot. I only put him in there for 30 secs or so. I will try to do the time out more often to see if there's improvement. Thanks for the advise.
However, it's hard to stop the throwing because it could be anywhere and it could be every 5 mins during his meal.......I just try to praise him a lot when he does hand me back what he doesn't want. I'd tell him "Thanks Gavin for handing me back "...." that's very nice and you did a good job". I think the praising helps a bit but he still does it every so often.
As I have been there already with the tantrums & still with the timeouts, I fail to understand how so many can beat & hit their babies! I spent 9 mths nuturing that baby in my belly & then the remainder of the time protecting them from harming themselves...why oh why do parents constantly take hand to their child and inflict pain into something that they have created from their own blood...I dont believe in physcial punishment as a form of disipline. I believe that the parents that do this do so in anger & only because they themselves have an issue with controlling their own behaviour. A baby has such a short attention span that no matter how many times you hit them, the only message you are sending is of violence and fear. I cant see how it could possibly teach love & learning.
I have a friend of mine who spanks, or lets just call it what it is..abuses her child on a regular basis, the baby just turned one and my heart breaks whenever Ive seen her smack, drag and scream at this child. She doesnt live in my area any longer, but last time she was here I couldnt believe my ears & eyes on how she was whacking this child every few minutes. I dont see how this "teaches" children the differance between whats wrong or right & see it only as a means for ( some not all) people who do so as a release of their own anger & frustration. My friend now tells me how much of an attutide her 14 mth old has ...gee I wonder why...
I couldnt blame you babyhardiman, I couldnt handle it either. I told my friend that if anything ever happens to that baby, then she will be the one whos crying with her own loss and guilt. I especially hate these angry spankers...the children are our innocent, we are supposed to be their teachers and protectors!
I read once that children often throw things as part of learning . Cause and effect.
If they toss something, take it away and dont acknowledge the behaviour. All 1 & 2 yrs ols do this....it passes.
I once had a home daycare & this one 2yr old tossed everything at lunch & snack...
I learned that when she was eating & began throwing, I would just say no, we dont throw our food, then turn her towards the wall...for just two minutes, like a time out. Eventually when she stopped getting so much attention for tossing her food & when she had her food turned away from her, she just stopped..it was amazing really.
The hitting, well I agree with AJH84 , a firm NO, hitting is not nice, eventually they will hit harder, best to start teaching early . I also follow it up with words like hugs are nice & love..then hug them and sjow them a soft touch :).As for stopping children from picking at things such as dog food, glass ornaments and such, all I think you can do is to gate it or take it away. Children will always go back to what they cant have, for whatever reason.Maybe its for the attention, they say children will do anything for attention, whether its negative or positive. So I always just removed whatever the issue was, you cant really fight a persistant 1 or 2 yr old. Only in the constant effort of teaching will they learn, and that can be a long hard lesson for sure, and tiring for us moms.
I use time outs as a form of punishemnt & time in their room when really out of hand, then if the behavior is consistant and not effected by timeouts, I pick their most favorite thing & I take it away..this seems to work, but all kids are different. As for where to give a timeout...I would say absoluely anywhere is good. on the stairs( but my youngest is 6, so hes not in danger) , in a corner, in a chair, against a wall...where ever as long as they understand that its a form of disipline. A timeout is not about seclusion or fear, its about consistancy .
I agree with Ktz40 on the throwing thing---it's a way of learning at this age! And using the word "No" doesn't mean anything at that age. Yes, you should still say no, but don't over-use it or baby will drown the word out. Try re-direction if baby is doing something you do not approve of, like throwing things. In other words, find a new activity.
Ktz, I find that awful about your friend an their 1-year-old. I do spank gently in dangerous, rebellious situations (running out into the street, for example). But my daughter is almost 3 and she RARELY gets one because I don't do it all the time. I think 1 is REALLY young and the way you described your friend as "spanking" is not spanking. There are correct ways to do it without inflicting harm on a child. Yikes!!! Did you ever confront your friend?
Yes , I have confronted her many times. She actually moved to Cleveland in Oct & Im thankful I havent witnessed it much since. But she tells me often ( phone ) how not only does she spank her, but she also allows her older kids ( 11 & 13 ) to also spank her. I believe my friend to be incrediably unhappy & unfortunately found herself pregnant just 2mths after she had her daughter. So now she has a newborn as well as a baby (along with three other children). Ive never witnessed this before from her( the spanking so bad) , when we met her youngest at the time was 4, not a baby.
She says they all got spanked & so will she cause she is no different. She is in a bad relationship , low self esteem depressed & unhappy. I honestly do fear for the child and even has made the offer to take her. She is so precious. Of coarse my friend just laughed at me, but more and more I find myself cringing when I hear her tell me how she smacks her child. I dont think a one year old has the attention span alone to remember what not to touch...its crazy. It breaks my heart. She is also in a relationship whereas the b/f & his mother also spank( hit ) all the kids without thought to how badly they may get hurt, She even laughed one day when she told me how her b/fs mother hit one of the other grandkids so hard she though she was gonna kill the child..( he is 2 ) What do you do..this is the life she has choosen & I really have litle respect for all of them anymore. But deep down I know this girl to be such a good person,. I think she has just put herslf in such an unhappy position that these kids are gonna pay...greatly.
I will add I also do have a friend (a christian) who also believes in spanking...but it is done entirely as a teaching tool. She sends her kids upstairs to their room to wait ..tells them they will be punished, goes up and does it however she handles it ( Ive never actually seen her hit her kids, she has 6 ) and then its done, never in anger. I suppose if you have a way of controlling the situation, with a teaching purpose, along with a conversation on consquenses, then perhaps I can be done it as a way of disipline, although I myself shall never practice it.
But I really dont see how I can help my friend, or change whats happening, as now she is in Ohio??
Poor kids is all I can say..
The only way you can help those children is to report her to Child Protection Services. She has taken "spanking" to an abusive level. The fact she LAUGHS at someone hitting her children makes me so angry that I'm shaking. How would she like it if a giant person came stomping over to her to slap her around? She'd be quivering with FEAR!!! THOSE POOR BABIES!
Because your friend moved to the States, you can report her and cite incidences and ask them to investigate. I just cannot believe people sometimes! I just can't believe it. This is disgusting and breaks my heart.
Belive me, I have had it out time and time again with my sister. We had a b-day chicken picken for my mom this past Saturday.. I had to watch her baby for an hour or so, and he was an angel. He walked around with this proud little look about him and I was sooo proud of him. As soon as his mom walked in his entire demeanor changed, you could see it in his eyes. It's a sad thing like you said, how can someone beat a child that they created. I do not believe in spanking either, and I will do everything possible to keep from having to use physical dicipline!
This sounds like abuse to me. Not even in a gray zone. She needs to be told directly and in no uncertain terms that she is inappropriate in her handling of discipline.
If she doesn't listen, then the child needs to be protected. Please stand up for this child. Confront your sister lovingly, but firmly. It should not be necessary to spank a 2 year old unless the child is doing something dangerous. And that shouldn't be often at all.
I only want whats best for my friend and her children. Its eay to say what you would do when its not a close friend /or relative. When you in the position whereas it is someone close there is such a feeling of overwhelming saddness when you know the person is not as bad as they have become, but how do we fix them? She has five children and I know she does love them, I believe this whole out of control spanking is a symptom of her saddness & depression.
I dont have an address to report her with & as much as I know that would be the right thing to do, Im not so sure that I can do it. Its extreme spanking, smacking yeling, NOT aggressive beatings ...just the constant smacking & whacking. I know this is "to me" abusive, and I know it also makes me sick when she tells me of the grandmother whacking this other child...I tell her over and over again that I dont believe she should be hitting her child. I quote to her studies specifically about this type of punishment that proves this is not a positive way of teaching a child. She is in a bad place & I wish I could just rescue these kids, but I cant. Will calling CCS in the USA be better off really...Ive seen so much horror stories ....and deep down I know she does love these kids, I just want her to stop!.
I have not read everything that was written so I dont know if someone has written this already, but your sister is acting on her own emotions instead of the best interest of the child. maybe you could explain to her that she is getting frustrated and finding a way to make herself feel better instead of teaching her child how behave properly. When she has the urge to get up and smack him, she needs to take a step back and thing about what she is trying to accomplish. If she continues this way, the child really doesnt understand what is going on and will never learn how to act. Maybe you could bring to her attention that eventhough he is little, he is still a person and has thoughts and feelings just like us. Would she like it if her boss at work came over and beat her for something she did wrong. If she really doesnt get it, you could probably explain to her that she is teaching her child to hit and take his frustrations out in a physical way and it wont be too long before he is bigger than she is. What goes around comes around!
People are too quick to call Child services. I had a friend who spanked her child on the McDonlads play ground for pushing another child down the slide. The mother of one of the children on the playground called 911 (Pat was unaware of the phone call) on her for spanking her child and she was taken away in cuffs, because there were visible red marks on her daughters legs. She spent weeks trying to straighten everything out. She spanked for safety reasons and still was punished.. it's a difficult determination when it's appropriate to spank and when not to. If someone sees Joy spanking her child for running in the street, she could have the same thing happen to her that happened to my friend Pat.
I do believe that it's California now that has the No Spanking law... I'm not sure if they passed it or not, but I remember reading a thread over in the Womens Community about it.
You said she spanks all the time. That is unecessary, inappropriate, and abusive in regards to a 2 year old child.
I'm sorry, but that's how I see it. I feel sorry for the poor child if no one stands up for him to protect him from this situation. I know its your sister, but she needs to learn the right way to discipline a toddler, and the child deserves to be raised in a loving and gentle environment where he can feel safe, protected, and loved, rather than live in fear of being hit for every infraction.
I'd also have my own questions about a mother spanking a child and leaving red marks on the childs legs...I'd probably call the police too, if I saw someone whacking away on their child's legs for any reason. Its not right.
A spank in my mind is one firm swat on a clothed tush. Not hitting a child on the legs, and not pulling their pants down. Only in situations where the child is doing something dangerous after clearly understanding he/she is not to do so.
I was not defending my sister, I was commenting to Ktz40 in regards to her friend. Incase you missed it, I have talked to her over and over about her actions. One day I'm just going to haul off and knock the **** out of her and then ask her how she likes it. I do NOT agree with spanking. Please do not assume that I am not trying to protect my nephew... because you are wrong in thinking that.
My nephew is just an innocent little person who can't protect himself from my 250 pound sister.. who has a heavy hand. She is my sister, but she is a grown *** woman who can protect herself and SPEAK for herself, he is just learning to speak sentences. I can see it breaks his little spirit every time she pulls his pants down and spanks him. I swear Peek, I just want to bend her over my knee and give her a couple of really hard swats and she how she feels!! I am not a violent person, I was swatted with switches growing up, I grew up in the same household as she did. I have no respect for her, and I hope he does get pay back!
The girl has serious mental issues and needs help. My mother says she is "clincally retarded" and that was from her guidance councelor while Carol was in the 3rd Grade. My mother gives her excuses for the way she acts. She will be 24 this month. Either she gets help, or I will take further actions!
at 13, 14 even 18 months old 'NO' is nothing different than the word 'pizza'. A child's cognitive understanding of cause and effect is NOWHERE near the place of beginning to develop at this age. Not to mention, the dog bowl is EXCITING! remember the only experiences your little one has participated in that involve water, is the bath! and in the bath he can splash. when you tell him no and he looks at you, he is responding to your tone of voice. which is all his brain receptors have developed enough to do so...Hence, his immediate return to the activity. Best thing you can do is to move the dog bowl to an area he cannot readily access. The number one thing a child between the ages of 9months and 39months needs is an area where the word 'NO' doesn't exist. The primary awake and active play time of your little one's day needs to consist of free active movement and play in an age appropriate and age exploration safe place. If one is not available because your living situation is somewhat limited, MAKE ONE! Several mentioning of baby gates; gate off an area where your baby is safe yet you still have a place to fold the laundry or write a grocery list, enjoy television programming or utilize your computer. This should be the NORMAL SCHEDULE IN YOUR HOME FOR 89%-96% of your little ones day! Think about it, would you not both be exponentially mentally and emotionally sound and happy if he could play and entertain himself contently whilst you're granted the ability to tend to your own devices and/or activities; whatever they may be?? I believer your answer is yes. I hope this is helpful! And as far4 as putting the baby in the bathroom: PUT THE DOG BOWLS AND THE DOG/S IN THE BATHROOM!
Also I have my PhD and I am a Child psychologist and behavior modification certified doctor. I have all 64 CA CFE credentials and i specialize in Children and family educations. The sister whose sister is excessively HITTING her TWO YEAR OLD LITTLE ANGEL IS SSOOO WRONG! what she is doing is child abuse. He could hit someone with the heaviest object his little body would allow him to carry, hell he could stab a knife into someone or something; insTANTLY if you grabbed him and took down his pants and hit him all he understands is you have hurt him. mommy hurt me. hell cry as it hurts, eventually stop, and all he has learned is to have anxiety around the mother and the effects of an anxious child is acting out. hope my info is helpful in the least to whoever took the time to ready! CHEERS!
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