Irrational Behavior or a Drama Queen?

So, I guess I am asking this for anyone that has raised little girls, is currently, or anyone that wants to weigh in.

I am pretty sure that I have mentioned before that my dd (who will be 4 in July) can be a bit on the dramatic side.. She has a big fear of Dr.s, so we have approached that subject with her, and now when she has to go, we tell her 'they are just nice people who want to place some games to make sure you are healthy'- this has worked for all the eye Dr.s we have had to see for her!

Anyway, sometime her behavior seems completely irrational. I'll try to keep this short, but provide a few examples.

She becomes very attached to children's characters(like her stuffed Eeyore, and Thomas the tank engine train toy is the newest one), but if she sees them on TV (or in a movie) She has a severe meltdown,,,,Screaming, crying, yelling, pleading with us to change the channel, and that she does not want to see them! You would think she would like to see more of the characters she loves, but has a very different reaction. SHe also does this for any movie trailer on tv featuring any movie for children(any of them!)-the screaming, runs into the other room yelling for us to change it or  turn off the tv. I mean massive melt-down! We have guessed that maybe she has blurred the lines of reality and her imagination and that maybe she is afraid of seeing her beloved things 'come to life on screen'--but why for the other movies or cartoons she has never even seen? It's like she is afraid of the unknown?? We don't know!

Also, she has very severe reactions to things and can be very loud and scream over things like her shirt sleeve being wet, or dropping something in she can't reach, in the car. She screams and throws fits over not having her covers on her in bed the 'correct' way or if she does not have enough juice next to her before nap/bed time. She likes most things to be a certain way. They other day she found a long lost baby wash cloth under our radiator and it was covered with dust bunnies and dirt...she screamed so loud we thought she had hurt herself! We asked why she had that reaction and she said 'it was covered with bugs that were going to eat her'..I mean her reactions to certain (almost all actually!) situations seem completely irrational, and sometimes it is hard to get her to come out of it. I could go on and on with more examples... She has been like this since she was about 2.

I have asked several of my friends who have little girls. I have heard it all-it is her age, it is the terrible 3's not the terrible 2's. She is just dramatic and it is her personality. My mother tells me she is insecure, but she has the most stable, routine-oriented life, I don't see how that could be it. As some of you may know, my health has been not great for several months, my mother thinks that adds to it, but she has been displaying various forms of this irrational behavior for nearly 2 years. My MIL just says that little girls are just like this and are more dramatic ( but she only raised boys!) I don't know what to make of it all really. She can be so difficult. Her Ped. has seen her behave this way when he saw her for and exam and he said 'my, she is certainly dramatic, isn't she?' My concern as I have mentioned in the past is OCD runs rampant on DH's side of the family...

What does it sound like to you? Typical 3 year old behavior, only more dramatic?? Should I be overly concerned? I don't know what to do to change this behavior, it seems to be part of who she is...I am so lost!! Help! Input!!

[jenstam]

Hmm...this is not typical if compared to the four girls I have so I can see the reason for concern. I am at a loss as to what more to say though. I'm not sure if overly dramatic would be the word. Would she be interested in doing some type of drama or theater to role play and get out her intense energy? Have you explained that this is not okay behavior, to react this way? Do you make a big deal out of it when she is having an outburst, give her lots and lots of attention and affection? Maybe she is just liking the reaction she gets. I'm not sure any pediatrician would diagnose her with anything at her age, but you might want to contact her pediatrician and give the same examples and see if there is reason for concern?

[1nana]

OCD is the first thing that popped into my mind as I was reading this (not drama queen.)

I had a niece who acted very similar and she was diagnosed with OCD at the age of 5.

It does not sound like she is insecure.

[amberd5191]

I don't really think this is an age related thing. I do think y9ou have a right to be slightly concerned with OCD. I also don't think she is insecure...I have seen this behavior in kids for the clinic but usually its in children who have had a terrible tramatic experience at the doctors...

[melimeli]

mild autism?  no idea on this one just know that they like rutine and freak if they don't have it  I have 3 girls and haven't seen this..

have you asked dr?

[lovethebops]

That is the thing, I know this is not exactly 'normal' behavior, as I have watched and sat for other little girls before and never really saw them act this severe to certain situations. My other thought was ADD or something? I don't think she has any signs of autism and is really fine, most of the time. But the outbursts just seem so irrational! I just don't know what to really do about it? Nobody else (besides DH) seems overly concerned, as she is very normal for the most part, she just seems to have this very dramatic flare to her. But what really can I do at this point anyway? We always tell her that is is not ok to react this way, and she is out of line, that seems to help calm her down, most of the time. But it continues. I don't know if she will really 'grow out of it' as some I have talked to have suggested. I am nervous she won't get ahold of things before she enters school(which is still a good year and a half away!)... I am thinking if this behavior does not change or she cannot get a grasp on things, she will need to have some type of therapy to let her know that she can handle things in a more calm manner-that is what we have been telling her all along, but maybe we just need to work more with her on it...most of the time we ignore it and just tell her to settle down, and that she does not need to act that way over such ridiculous things..?? I really don't know what else to do, there isn't much we can do I suppose, at this point...wait and see? She does not really do this in public, mostly when she is at home with us.

[lovethebops]

Sometimes I do think she is using it to get attention, especially from her Daddy. She has a really hard time with him leaving for work in the morning. He usually never tells her when she is out of line, he just tells her to stop..I think it may just be a combo of her dramatic self, control issues, and a touch of OCD.

[mikaleen]

Hey,
My daughter is 4, and it sounds like you could be talking about her.  I constantly get comments from her teachers about how well behaved and smart she is at school, and she is the same most of the time at home, but sometimes she throws fits that I just can't get under control.  Usually it is when she is very tired, she does things like scream at the top of her lungs until her socks are in a certain place on top of her comforter, or she'll scream if her daddy comes in to give her a kiss goodnight that she wants mommy and not him, and she won't let him even come in the room without screaming.  She woke up an hour after bed time one night and wouldn't stop screaming until she could check her Lincoln Logs she had been playing with.  Everyone tells me she's dramatic and that she is exactly like I was when I was little...my mother went as far as to apologize for telling me she hoped I had one just like me.  I brought it up to her Dr. who said all we can really do is wait unless we do a sleep study, or check for seizures.  She seems to think it will calm down as she gets a better hold of her emotions and I make sure she doesn't get over tired.  Sometimes it happens during the day and not during the night, so I am writing down how much sleep she is really getting every night to see if the fits coincide with less sleep.  I wish you lots of luck, and I hope it calms down for you, I know how exhausting and frustrating it can be to try to get it under control.

[April2]

lovethebops, you may want to ask your pediatrician for a referral to an OT therapist and have her evaluated. I just had my son evaluated and everything you are describing was on that test I took. They think my son may have some sensory issues, although not as extreme as it sounds like your daughter may have. My son is 4 almost 5. The thing is, with some therapy they can desensitize her and work with her. My son originally went into this clinic for speech therapy and the therapist there recommended I get him evaluated for Occupational Therapy as well. Your insurance should pay for any of that and it may really help.
Best wishes!

[rubyolivia]

M-
Working with kids, I have seen alot of the drama queen stuff. I think that part of her is just 3 1/2 and dramatic. But part of that is a little different from what I normally saw in my 3's students. I wonder if the perfect routine isn't just TOO perfect for her. Maybe she is acting like this to "spice" things up a bit. Or, as Jen said...she just wants the attention. Is there a play group close to you or anything she could get involved with to break the same ole, same ole? Perhaps something like that would be of help.

I wouldn't really describe the examples you've given here as ADD/ADHD behavior. Unless she is like this constantly and can't focus on anything. Can you sit her down for an activity and she stays interested for a decent amount of time (10-15 minutes is sufficient time for a 3 year old)? If not, then maybe, possibly ADD/ADHD. Even though it seems many doctors are quick to jump on the ritalin train and dx the disorder without adequade information/testing, it really takes a lot of time to fully dx this. Plus, it should be very consistant. If you sit her down at 3 meals a day and she can't concentrate on any of her meals and does it for months...yes, I'd consider having her tested.

Also, the character thing. I'm really stumped. The only thing I can think is...she's scared that her "friends" are gone from her and stuck in TV. I'm no 3 year old, lol, but that'd be enough to scare me! That doesn't really explain the unknown characters, but....

I don't know. Kids are weirdos sometimes. Mine spent an hour last night walking around squatted down, 1/2 hunched over with this puckered up fish face saying "heeey baby". LOL

[lovethebops]

Jess- I am glad to hear from someone that has worked with many children of this age. She can focus on things, she likes to be read to, and will sit for stories and so forth. She likes to play candy land, but gets bored with it after a while. I think maybe she does have too much of a 'structured' life, maybe it will be good to get her out doing different things. I do think she does things sometimes for attention, especially for her daddy. I think we need to cut back more on the TV, but now that it is spring, we will be able to get outside more and she can burn some energy and not be so cooped up.

Thank you all for your input, it has given me food for thought and will help us determine where we should go with this...

[lovethebops]

No, she is not like this on a constant basis. She is really fine most of the time, she will have a few outbursts here and there during the day. She never has issues after she goes to sleep, unless she is sick or something. Sometimes I think she does not get ENOUGH sleep, as she will stall and push back her bed time, and since the time switch and it is lighter earlier in the morning, she is up much earlier now...her naps keep getting shorter and shorter and I think the lack of sleep does really effect her.

Plus, lets not forget that she is having newly problems with her vision.(since Dec. 2008) That must lead to a lot of her frustration and control issues. We found out Wed from the Eye Op. That she needs bifocal lenses now. She believes her previous OP plan A didn't work, so she is going on to plan B, bifocal lenses, as this may help with her inward turned eye. They do not believe she has muscular problems with the eye, just a long muscle she must grow into and has a focus issue with the other eye, so her turned in eye is doing all the work for the other one she can't see well out of (she has 20/30 vision) so besides the farsightedness, she has a touch of astigmatism as well. I can imagine that must frustrate her a LOT! I would if I could not see, but not know how to articulate this to us. Poor thing! We are hoping the bifocals help relax that muscle and her eye won't turn in as much!

[AHP84]

Maybe the TV character thing has something to do with her vision? Maybe on TV, what she sees is out of focus and distorts how she sees the characters, and she doesn't understand it and it scares her?
I don't know much about children's eye issues, but that thought crossed my mind when you mentioned her vision problems and potential frustrations with it.

[Trialanderror]

Hmm, I don`t have a daughter but it reminds me a bit of what Mary Kurcinka (sp?) said about The Spirited Child in a parenting conference I went to.
My son has always been along that line - and it`s just that some kids experience everything more intense, more dramatic, less predictable for others and themselves. A lot of what she wrote about the "spirited" intensity could be mistaken for OCD or even ADD, at least I always keep that in mind with my son.
With him I learned that he doesn`t choose to act that way nor does he manipulate, he just gets extremely emotional about a few things. Basically, he has a certain idea in his mind of how things ought to be in life at any time of the day - and if anything deviates, he freaks out. It gets better with age but the basic temperament remains I find.
My half-sister was similar between let`s say 2 and 6. She insisted on wearing dresses and would only have it that way even during alpine skiing lessons. She turned out to be the smartest and funniest of them all.

[lovethebops]

Huh, that is funny! DD is just getting into dresses as well! She insists on wearing them ALL the time now, she is very into being a 'princess'...Maybe sometimes I think what is out of line, or abnormal, is really not. Maybe it is just her. These 'episodes' don't typically last for more than a moment, and then she is back to whatever she was doing...I only grow concerned because of the paternal family history of OCD. Maybe she will just grow out of it. Her Ped. did see her have an outburst and did not seem overly concerned, just commented on her 'dramatic' side :) But, then again, he has 7 children of his own, so I am sure he has seen it all!

[Trialanderror]

Bops, when you say paternal family history of OCD, that too matches some of what I was trying to express above: we have a line of similarities jumping across generations from my grandpa to my dad to myself and my half-sister to my son. We are all pretty tense when trying to accomplish something and all of us have these ideas of things needing to be just so and not a degree different. It drives others nuts and creates some unhappiness when things are not perfect, but at least we all understand each other :) I think as a parent all we can do is to help our children to practice methods to "snap out of it".

[kjbutcher]

It is funny you mention the dress thing.  A 3 yr old that I used to watch would insist on wearing dresses all of the time.  One day they were all dirty and she came to my house in jeans and said  very sadly "I am not a princess today, my dresses are all dirty".  Her mother and I came to the conclusion that she actually got a bit depresseed (in a 3 yr old way) and did not have good days if she was not wearing dresses.  I have noticed that the fears of girls seem to be over dramatic.  The character thing is something I have never seem before, but you do have to wonder if that has something to do wtih her vision.  If you are concerned, I would certainly start taking the steps to get her seen and see what happens.  Your concerns will eat at you until you do.  So if it is nothing, you will feel better, and if it is something you will get a head start at getting it under control.  You may even get some tips on how to keep this from happening.

[mum2beagain]

I have a friend with a 5 year old with similar behaviours Bops, she is overly sensitive and dramatic quite a lot; when a routine is different, if something isn't just as she likes it, reacts badly to some sensory input such as loud noises, cold and some food textures. She was screened for Autism but was given the all clear on that one, then they talked about sensory integration disorder, that didn't seem to quite fit either so although she has no "diagnosis" it was felt that some OT would help calm some of her behavoiurs. Through early intervention she has worked with an OT on a "sensory diet" (ie lots of sensory input to actually try to de sensitise her) with some great results. There are still problems with the dramatic tantrums but again OT's are working with her to help her adjust when there are changes to her routines and difficult situations.

This may well be just a case of the crazy three's; you could give it a little more time and see how things work out but I think if it is affecting you, making you feel like there is nothing else you can do it could be time to ask for some help and ask for a referal through early intervention to see if OT could help.

[mum2beagain]

Also Bop's I wanted to say that now James has got used to his glasses he is able to concentrate much better on tasks. James' lenses are bifocals. He has 20/30 vision, slight astigmastism of both eyes and stambismus (measuring 16) of the right eye (probably spelling those all wrong but you will know what I mean). It is amazing what a difference the right pair of glasses can make to a child.

[lovethebops]

Great! I am happy to hear that! It sounds like he has exactly what Madelyn does (I wrote that in one of my post's above)..Was it hard for him to get used to the bifocals?

[tiredbuthappy]

my first thoughts were the same as April and Mum2beagain... some possible sensory problems. A lot of times, the connection isn't evident. But for a which with a sensory processing disorder, it takes a lot of effort to control him/herself in a world where some of the input can be overwhelming. Therefore, a (seemingly) slight problem can be quite overwhelming.
I have not worked with any kids diagnosed with OCD, but that may be worth looking into as well. I do not think it's add, adhd, or autism.
i'll think more... right now i gotta go cause the cable guy is coming to fix the internet.

[mum2beagain]

It took James about a week to get used to his glasses, at first he took them off every five minutes but we just had to be stronger willed than him and insist he keep them on!! This is the same child that took nearly 3 years to get to wear a hat!

Some of his sensory problems and tantrums had me feeling like I had an uncontrolable child; we once had him lying on the floor pounding his own head on the pavement because he didn't want to sit in a cafe he had never been in before. Another time he screamed the mall down becasue he couldn't stand the loud noise of peoples chatter in the food court. I litereally dreaded leaving the house some days and many trips out were cut short because of his meltdowns. Therapy changed all that.

Of course James' case is very different to Maddie as he had many other developmental delays and as you know was eventually diagnosed as Autistic, but I guess what I am trying to say is don't be scared to ask for help; therapy has changed not just James' life but all our lives and infact it made a difference almost imediatley. So much so that I was able to take a nine hour flight through two international airports with James and Sam on my own! Before therapy I wouldn't have gone on my own to the grocery with just James!!

[mum2beagain]

Also  I was thinking about the TV characters, if she does have sensory issues it could very well be very frightening and ovewhelming for her to see these characters suddenly brought to life; the bright colours, the animation and movement of these characters and the fact that they are talking, singing and making noises she just doesn't normally experience them making could just overload her sensory systems.

[lovethebops]

A good friend of mine and I were just discussing this very issue. Her dd is almost 8 now and finishing 2nd grade this year. She said she always notice little things with her dd as well- I used to watch her when she was little, and I rarely noticed odd behavior, though there were times where she would just go 'off into her own little world' and start singing or talking to herself...I always wondered if she coulld have a slight touch or autism.

It was not until she was in kindergarten that the teachers brought to the attention of my friend that her dd was displaying some 'sensory overload' issues. FOr instance, she would be trying to focus in school and everything that was going on around her (other children chattering, the buzzing fan, the bright lights, etc. etc.) caused her to just cover her ears and say she can't hear anything or see what the teacher was trying to do on the board. Or she was in P.E. in the GYM and the voices bouncing off the large room bothered her so that she broke away from the group and walked away singing to herself. She was screened for autism and all that was mentioned above, and it was discovered that she did have a sensory disorder. She works with specialists in her school and is coping much better, though she does have a bit of ADD as well (her father has it and also had similar issues as a child in school)

Anyway, this is not the first that I have heard of the sensory thing. I wonder if this may be the issue. For example, I was watching a flipping show(flipping a house, that is) and when she saw the guy bust a hole in the floor by accident, she nearly had a break down. I asked her why that upset her. SHe said she was afraid someone was going to come into our house and bust a hole in our floor! I mean, she usually is able to articulate what is bothering her, even if it makes no sense to us as adults, or seems quite irrational.
It seems to make the most sense, as much of what my friend mentioned has similarities to what my dd is doing now. I will definitely keep up on this, and mention it to her Ped. in a few months when she goes for her 4 year annual check up.

Thank you all for sharing! I really appreciate it!

[lovethebops]

I guess the hard thing for my dh and I to figure out is if this is really 'something' or if it is nothing at all and she is just a scare-dy cat or very dramatic and likes to have more control over things. That, and her eye problems. It seems that it has been worse in the months since we discovered her eye/vision problems. It may just be her and she may just out grow it...it is so hard to know what is 'normal' at this age since some kids can just be silly and strange. I guess I should not be OVERLY concerned as it does not affect the way she proceed;s through the day, they are short episodes. Sometimes I think maybe we expect more out of her than should, I mean she is only 3! We will keep working with her and keep an eye on it.

[tiredbuthappy]

If I were you, I would start a journal. You may begin to see a pattern. Write down the time of day, brief description of episode, etc... Include things like activities going on prior to and during the episodes, her apparent temperament, etc... Also start to track what draws her out of these tantrums.

To illustrate: (although this child had plenty of other issues going on)- I had a little boy who we very strongly suspected sensory problems. It was not always apparent that this was the cause, and it was careful observation that led us to understand and even predict his behaviors. He was very sensitive to loud noises all the time and this was easy to spot. However, we noticed on occasion that he was sensitive to smells as well. Through note taking, we started to make the connection- if he came in to school commenting on smells, we could anticipate a rougher day. For example, he came in one morning and declared it smelled like coffee. No one else noticed. Across the room, i had an iced coffee (which generally doesn't give off a strong smell like hot coffee). Sure enough, he had several melt-downs that day. It was as if on the days when his senses were hightened, he had trouble coping with simple things. This knowledge helped us anticipate when he would have difficulty and we would do activities to help ground and desensitize him. As I said, he was also sensitive to sound. He would always be asking what that sound was, and it was always a distant sound that none of the other children would even notice. Interestingly enough, i was partially able to relate to him. I have some sensory issues relating to sound. Growing up, I was the only child completely distracted by buzzing lights that no one else noticed. I can't handle loud places, and can't hold a conversation in a restaurant or bar because of all of the other sounds that bombard me. At times, it does cause me to get aggitated. And I suspect I am a very mild case. I can't imagine life for these poor kids who can't even understand what it is that is aggitating them.

Anyways, tracking her episodes can help you decide if it is her being sensitive, overly dramatic, or if it's something else like a sensory problem.

[AnnieBrooke]

You mentioned that you had health issues in the past year.  Did she do these things so extremely before that?  I'm thinking of how people handle change.  Small children especially don't like anything to change, dull old routine is their safety.  Even adults get irritable and off-balance if they are having to handle too many negative changes in their life (and will flare up over trivial things, not related to the change, though the reason they even notice the trivial thing is that the change is preying on their mind).  To have something so existentially big be happening (her eyes) is hard enough, but then if you are also not there in the same way (because of your health) than you were before, it might just trigger all kinds of anxieties that manifest in various ways.  Is she afraid you are going to die?  Is she afraid you won't or can't be there for her in the same way?  (She hasn't taken from your illness that she is supposed to somehow step up, or be more of a big girl to help, right?  I mean, your husband hasn't told her that or anything?)  Sometimes when a parent has a problem, the child tries to shoulder some responsibility to fix it, even if it makes no sense that they are in any way responsible.  A small child indulges in magical thinking, and it can reverse on them and make them feel like they "caused" some negative thing and it's up to them to make it change back to the way it was, particularly if a parent or grandparent is there to tell them they have to take some different action than usual in order to "help."

Anyway, I only ask about this because it would be an easy thing to test.  You could consider whether any of your behaviors have changed due to your health issues. and as much as possible reverse those, to behave just like you did before.  And if anyone has told her she needs to help mommy in this way or that way because of mommy's health (not general getting-older-and-helping stuff, but things she explicitly was told she had to do because you were not feeling well), you could release her explicitly from those expectations.  Then just see if anything changes in the over-the-top reactions.  

ps -- I really, really didn't like the Charlie Brown television specials when I was little.  My mom had already read me all the Charlie Brown books, and I had my own mental image of what the characters would sound like and act like.  The specials offended my sense of that little "Peanuts" world -- mine was better, theirs was a bastardation, mine was private and I could think about it in my own way, theirs was public and everyone else could see it.  It was sort of like when you know the right words to a song and someone starts singing it and sings the wrong words -- you might know it's no big deal for others not to know the words, but it grates on your nerves even so.  Maybe she just has her own private, created world for her characters, and is either put out by how wrong the cartoon ones feel to her, or scared by how they use plot turns and problems to manipulate the emotions of the watcher.  

[lovethebops]

WOW, you put  totally different light on matters. My health issues have been bad for about 9 months now, and I can definitely see that it has intensified. I really have not received the greatest news about the rest of my journey (see my journal for details), but perhaps here and there me or Dh have mentioned to 'go easy on mommy today, she doesn't feel well'' or something along those lines. Her eye condition really must bug her, I can only imagine. She will be getting her new lenses in about a week.

I like your insight into the whole 'character' thing. Maybe all of these issues are minor and all have reasonable explanations, but compounded seem very difficult, especially for a mommy who is not at the 'top of her game' so to speak right now. Nobody has ever given us a good explanation or insight into the whole character on TV thing, we always thought that was very odd. But the way you explained it makes a great deal of sense.

I am keeping an eye on her, and I still keep coming back to possible sensory issues. She likes to be in control of every situation almost (for instance, she is constantly telling me to change the radio in the car because it is not a song she 'likes' and will order me to put on a song she does-like I have control over the radio??) Things like this that you would not expect a small child to even CARE about..

[AnnieBrooke]

My son gets distressed when an image comes up on TV that he dislikes.  He will really fuss, cover his eyes, or protest.  Now, he is 2 not 4, but that kind of specificity is pretty normal for any toddler.  They want things "just so" and don't have many coping options if not.  

Especially if your daughter is feeling boxed in by the big things she can't control (her own worries about your health, her eyes, grandma's warnings that she has to be a good girl), she is going to be even more intent than an average toddler that the things she *can* influence need to be right "or else."  I'd try to think of things that will ease the amount of worry she might have picked up about the big things, and give her some fun new child-oriented activities and channels to put her energy into (outdoor activities that don't come with a lot of rules or "rights and wrongs" might be nice) and see if it helps.  

I had a friend who leaned a lot on her 10-year-old daughter to help her cope with things, and though her daughter was proud to be relied on, it was also awfully hard on her emotionally, as witnessed by the fact that she developed an eating disorder. Seeing the disorder as just the daughter's problem and taking her to a doctor for it  would have been logical, but blind.  (When the mom's life improved, the daughter's eating disorder went away.)  Even at age 4, your daughter is not so young that she won't worry about you, and certainly she can't avoid worrying about her eyes (especially if you are).  So do what you can to ease it or distract her from it, and it will probably help.