Open forum...Breastfeeding topic

[Wooly25]

Ok, so this is kind of the continuum of the breastfeeding question that filled up.  I don’t like fighting on here, but outdoor woman you really kind of irritated me.  Just because someone has a different opinion of something doesn’t make them uneducated.  I differ from you and I have a degree from a big 10 university.  My analogy is that God made all creatures, and like most other mammals we feed our babies milk.  Eventually, those animals wean their young, and it’s not 2 years later.  Most cattle are butchered at two years of age, and they haven’t been nursing for at least a year.  So don’t you think that if we were supposed to nurse our babies till they are 2 years old that the majority of other animals would do the same.  I mean like most kittens are weaned at 6 to 8 weeks.  I understand that they are more independent, but then again they are not.  Mommy still goes out and hunts mice and birds for them to eat, just like we make up formula or feed baby food.  And speaking of third world countries yes they might feed their children a lot longer, but how many of those babies die each year, do to lack of nutrition.  And what happens to those babies in those countries that are lactose intolerant.  I am guessing that they die of dehydration.  So, these really have nothing to do with breastfeeding in public, but you used them as points to defend your case against sailor’s wife.  You also tried to make her look perverted and nasty because of her sexual actions.  My husband fondles my breast and not just in the bedroom.

[Wooly25]

I don’t think you should do it in public or in front of children.  Some men are just breast men, (just like some are attracted to butts, lips, or hair).  It probably tracks back to survival of the fittest, maybe some men picked a woman because, he thought she could feed his children better.  Who knows why men, are attracted to them.  Just because a man loves breast doesn’t make him a pervert.  Now if you don’t know the man, and he walks up and touches your breasts that is a lot different that is a pervert.  I don’t have a problem with a woman breastfeeding, but if you want to talk about freedom of Americans, why was there a man in Michigan that was arrested and fined for cussing in front of a woman and her children.  That guy had the right to say whatever he wanted, it was not even directed at the family.  He flipped a boat in the river didn’t even know that the family was there and let out a few curse words.  You can show a breast but you can’t cuss.  I just think that it is common curtsey to cover yourself up.  According to you I can just walk around without a shirt on, and just wear a sign that says hello they are not sexual they are for feeding.  Yeah I think I would get arrested.  Thank you.  Just have respect for others opinions on here, don’t bash others so much.  I did not make any personal hits against you, just explaining my point of views on your points.  I could make mean statements against you but that is not what this board is for, it’s to state your opinion and learn the way others think.  This forum is for grown-ups, we need to act like it.

[mysty2001]

Maybe you should know.  I learned about not suing when I was 7. Both of my brothers legs were smashed in an industrial accident.  My parents told us, suing won't bring them back.  WOW!  that was powerful.  I was soooo  lucky to have that example.  In 2003  I gave birth to  beautiful baby boy.  He died of infections that ?maybe?  he aquired in the hospital.  I would have gotten millions - but they wouldn't bring my boy back. To this day my in laws can't believe I didn't sue.  Suing is not the answer.

and yes - suing does bring up consumer costs.  Do you kow what malpractice insurance is????  how do you think doctors and hospitals pay their premiums?  by raising our costs.

there my some day be a law against frivolous lawsuits- but until then  - we need to wisen up as a nation.

[2songbirds]

poor sailors wife...she's been on here a long time, too. I have to say, I agree with her.

[anxiousmomtobe?]

The World Health Organization recommends nursing until the chlid is 2.  I nursed my first child for 5 months and my second for 17 months.  When they were very little I often nursed in public, but I was very discreet.  When my second child hit about a year, it was only morning and night and it was at home.  

I know in many cultures they nurse for a lot longer than that.  

I think it is a matter of personal choice and cultural bias and we should be accepting of other people's views.

[lucylocket2]

Hey everybody. I don't get over here much, and I didn'tread all 70 post's on the other one. So, I don't know what the fuss is about. My personal opinion is stop at a year. I HAD a friend who's son wouldn't stop. He was four when he did. I think after a certain point it get's a little gross.Ok not a little gross - it's really gross. When a child is a baby, little baby, it's fine to do it in public. At that age you can't really have a schedule yet. When they're hungry, they don't wait. After a point though they can. Make time to pump. I also think it's proper to cover yourself when doin it in public. After about 4 months the time of doin it at the mall is over. Men look, they can't help it. It's nature for them .Just like it is for us to nurse. I nursed my girls, but never in public. I took the time to pump if I was goin out. I just didn't feel right pullin my boob out in public.

[Jules_za]

Changing the subject for a minute...Lucy I reead one of your posts a while ago (if I am correct) and you said you picked up a lot of weight during your pg (stand to be corrected but something like 60 pounds?)My question is...were you able to lose it and how long did it take?  Did you breastfeed, and did it really make a difference?

[jifnif]

I didnt read all the posts either...just enough.  I breast feed and I do it discreetly.  I am not embarrassed and it is my right, but its quiet time for me and my son.  He hates to be covered up so I do my best to make sure we can't be seen and there are no distractions for either of us.  Nursing time is supposed to be a special time for bonding as well as nourishment.  And I also believe babies need to be weaned after 12 months.  If they can walk and talk they should not be on the breast.  This is my opinion.  Thanks, I just wanted to share it.

[happymom3]

Wow ladies I just read the posts from last night and it got REALLY nasty:(
And the thing that is ironic to me is that the original poster was trying to get opinions on what we would do. When they didn't agree with her they were blasted for their beliefs. Bummer.
Alot of name calling and assumptions. Too bad you can't even have an opinion without that happening.

[Annice1234]

So I couldn't read ALL of outdoor's posts because she was really annoying me.  From what I've gathered, however, is she has issues and is clearly one of the stuck up broads who I have always been so thankful NOT to be.  Get over yourself and cover up...it can't be too difficult.  

Sailor's Wife:  I totally agree with you.  Way to stick up for yourself.  She's crazy....and it really is quite comical.  And don't worry, I let hubby play w my breasts too...in the bedroom.  How boring to think they are only for feeding!  DH is far from a perv...but when we're nakey in the bedroom I don't exactly make him stay away from the boobies because they are stricly for feeding.  LOL.  How lame would that be?  :-)

[LoveBabies2006]

I don't really understand what's the big fuss about.  I breastfed both my kids until they were almost 2 years old (they are now 4 yrs 5 mths and 2 yrs 8 mths), both babies self-weaned just before they turned 2 years old.  Nursing clothes are great, and with the sarong (a long cloth used to carry / hold the baby in Asian countries so that you have your hands free) that I used to carry my baby whenever I go out (can't leave home without it especially for the first 15 months of my baby's life), people don't even know I am breastfeeding.  I can be in the shopping mall talking to the sales girl and breastfeeding but she wouldn't even know, just look like my baby is sleeping very soundly in my arms.

My personal view is that : I don't have any issues about people breastfeeding in public, but I am also mindful that there are people who may be uncomfortable, and so just act / behave accordingly.  I never had any problems with anyone about my breastfeeding in public, and that's mainly because I do it discreetly and they don't even know I am breastfeeding, even DH.  There were times when we were out and DH asks to carry the baby, and I had to tell DH that baby is feeding.

[Mertek]

I can't believe that someone would be for suing to enable change. What a crock. It's not like the court systems are filled to the brim with tons of frivilous lawsuits as it is. Get overself.

The lack of tolerance is maddening. Didn't anyone mother ever teach them it was impolite to stare? If you don't want to look at it, then don't.

This world be such a better place if we weren't so consumed with tiptoeing around each other.

Breastfeed your kids, but use some common courteosy. There just might be some parents that aren't ready to explain to their 3 year old why that lady's breast is hanging out while she's changing the baby's diaper on a mall bench. I for one, am that parent. I am not sticking my head in the sand, but I don't feel the need to over inform my pre-schooler.

These are just blanket statements, I am not pointing fingers at any one person.

[newlywed05]

Wow, wow, wow.....That is all that I can say right now. I wish I could go throught the computer, pick up this OUTDOOR chic, and knock some sense into her. I absolutely HATE know-it-alls. She seems to be the queen bee of the friggin' hive! If I read about her "research" one more time...

I plan on BF my kids. I always knew it was the only option for me. But I also know to be discrete about the matter. It does make SOME people uncomfortable. Not just that, I don't want to draw un-needed attention to myself for feeding my child. BUT it is a natural process. No need for all this fighting and name calling about the subject! And to attack a mother's capability to teach and raise her children is just uncalled for! She should be ashamed to stoop that low.

Let me just say that my husband and I have a healthy sex life. He knows my breasts are for feeding his children, but I have no problem with him using them in a sexual way either...heck, I find it quite arrousing myself!! Does that make me an uneducated, ignorant, unfit mother....because I like my husband touching my breasts?!?!? THAT IS INSANE!!!

This topic always starts a heated conversation...ALWAYS!! Ugh, sometimes it is just rediculous. EVERYONE has their own opinion. That is what it is, THEIR opinion. No reason to chastize others for not seeing things exactly your way!!!

[siren of the sea]

ladies i appologize for my behavior on the other thread. i was wrong to keep responding out of emotion and will try my best to walk away.

[lucylocket2]

I went from 127 to 235 with my first. I got pregnant with my second right after I gave birth(they are ten monthes apart). I don't know how much I weighed. I wasn't brave enough to get on the scales. The day after I had her I was 235. I lost the weight slowly, so i took diet pills. I have seizures from them.  It was hard to get up and make up my mind to lose the weight. I started doing tae bo and it really helps me.I think it's a lot of fun. I lost the weight pretty fast . I would eat off of a childs plate, so my portions were smaller. Still do sometimes.I still battle my weight. I'll go from 125 when I'm really motivated to 135 when I'm lazy.

[HIS GIFT TO US]

I thought it was funny how 3rd world countries were brought up, like lets all go get our men a gord (never had to write that before so not sure on the spelling)to cover their penis with & let the grass that ties around their waste fall in btw their butt cheeks  :) & then we can all go w/out our tops so everyone can see our boobies & wear grass shirts, for these people this is all natural but in America i'm guessing you'd be introuble trying to go to Walmart like this, I doubt using the 3rd worlrd country deal is going to help, same for the public having to see boobies due to bf, especially since we now have blankets w/labels reading MADE IN AMERICA :)LOL

[Annice1234]

Hahahaha.  That is soo true...you crack me up!!  :-)

[AndiJ78]

I find it sad that so many people feel it is their right to say how and when someone should not only nurse their child, but also wean their child. It is not up to anyone but the mother and child. I personally hate to see babies and toddlers with bottles and binkies, but it is not my child and therefore not my decision. If a 2 year old is still nursing, how does that affect you again? Does it physically cause you pain? You see more of a breast in prime time or on the cover of a magazine than a woman who is nursing even w/o a blanket.

Cripes ladies, any chance to spout an opinion about perhaps the most natural thing in the world and more than 80 posts were dedicated to it! So much for support, right?

Andi

[clevelandlady]

Well said.

[foxy1220]

I am quite comfortable with seeing a mother breastfeed their child up to one year old, but I think that with everything in life there comes a point when certain things become uncomfortable to see, for me that is breastfeeding a 2 year old child in public....if you need to give your child breastmilk why not put it in a sippy cup like everything else he/she drinks.

Yes I know that breastfeeding is one of the most natural things in the world but at some point it has to become un-natural.  Would you still think it was natural if you saw a 7 or 8 yr old breastfeeding (yes some people still breast feed up to 12 yrs old).........at some point you would become uncomfortable seeing this as well.

Also as far as people commenting about how an when someone should nurse their child and when to wean their child etc. etc.  I have always been of the view of when you do something out in the public you open yourself up to public scrutiny and public opinions.  If you can't deal with it then you can either be discrete and cover up or you can choose to do it at home.

[picaboo]

i dont know why women get so defensive at the suggestions to "be discreet." discretion is a good thing sometimes. i might have the urge to pee while i'm walking to work, but that doesnt mean i squat down right where i'm at to do it!!! i could, i mean after all its the most natural thing in the world next to breast feeding. i think if you make an effort to bf discreetly, no one will really care about what youre doing.

[Liza55]

Umm..for your points it actually only reinforces that nature does want longer breastfeeding- cattle aren't weaned from the mothers, they're TAKEN. (animal rights activists could give more on this). If left to live naturally I believe you'd find animals do cling to their moms for long periods of time. Also a lot of animals are born w/ basic survival skills (like a horse walks immediately, for ex.) where human babies would die in only hours if left alone. They can't move, eat, drink, stay clean or warm- nothing. The one common thing around the world w/ babies is their comfort w/ the human touch. Although I admit I am uncomfortable watching older babies nurse, I wonder why something so natural seems uncomfortable.

[who_dis]

You don't?

You'll have a rough time at my trailer.  We don't have a bathroom.

[Wooly25]

Well, I do know a little more about animals then you think my degree is in Animal science and agriculture economics, from Purdue University.  My husband is also an ag teacher.  Yes I do agree that dairy cattle are taken away early in order to take advantage of milk production.  But if you have ever been on a farm that raises beef cattle or other animals.  They start to kick the babies away by at least 6 months if not earlier.  Mother cats bite at babies and Dogs tend to nip at puppies when they are trying to wean them.  I also grow up on an 80 acre beef farm (and raised a lot of different animals) and we did not pull the calves from their mothers.  My husband grow up with sheep, and yeah they take them away when the mothers start to kick at them to get them to quite nursing.  As for animals being more independent when born yes this is true, but most wild animals like fox, coyotes, cats, and other (omnivores) Meaning they eat both meat and vegetation like humans, kill animals and bring it back to the den for the cubs or young to eat.  The babies don't just run out and get a snack.  Mother still supplies food, just like you feed baby food or formula.  Kittens and puppies also have to be stimulated in order to have a bowl movement that is why the mothers lick their bottoms (I worked for a vet for three years, so I can back this up with experience).  And babies are groomed by mom, because they don't figure that out (until a little later in life).  As for touch if you take them away from their mother's to quick you will notice that they can be more aggressive. (and yes I did also take a behavior class on small animals.)  I think alot of activist say alot of stuff to get you on there side most of it is stretched truth or just plain lies.  And the next time you want a cow just running down the highway like we do with deers (but they would be alot more deadlier, then feel free to free them all.)  Have you ever seen a car hit a horse or cow, or even a pig for that matter?  Yeah not very fun, also of people get killed that way.  So don't believe everything activists say, unless you are a vegan, (meaning not only a vegetarian but absolutely no using any animal products, don't disfarming to much, they do feed you.)  Good try, but like I said I am educated.  I don't make points that are pulled out of my butt (not saying you do, but make sure you don’t assume things they will only get you in trouble).  I agree with the touch thing, but you can give your child a massage with baby lotion and it does more then breastfeeding (touch wise) actually a lot of research encourages it.  Like I said I don't care if someone wants to breastfeed in public, I don’t think its right, but do whatever you want.  I was mostly telling Ms. Outdoor that not everyone with a different opinion is uneducated and that she needed to be a little nicer.  I asked a man today (not any relations to me and he said a tit is a tit, so he would look for that reason).  Yeah it might be creepy, but next time you want it all to hang out, then go for it, but don't complain when someone stares or makes rude comments they have the right to, it is America.  If you can breastfeed then they can stare and comment(I don't think it's right but we all have our freedoms.)

[Wooly25]

Also, I don't know if you were talking about the clinging in aspect to breastfeeding or just that the animal ran in the pack with the mother.  But yeah I agree most, but not all do stay in the family once the stop nursing, but so do most children at least until they are 18 years old if not older, and they are not breastfeeding.  But if you’re not careful with sons and moms or daughters and fathers running in the same herd you'll have inbreeding which is not so good most of the time.  If the inbreeding is controlled is can help in some of the genetics (yeah I did take a genetics class also and reproduction classes).  But most of the time causes still births, low birth weights, and structural problems.  You also stated that human babies are dependant of mothers, but what happens to babies that can't keep up with wild herds, are sick, or just don't function properly (they to die).  That is why we have an advantage over them mentally we have the ability to take care of our babies almost 100% of the time.  But that only goes to prove that babies in the wild are somewhat dependent on their mothers even though most can function normally.  We also don't have to worry about being prayed upon that's why they have the instincts and the ability to walk so soon, if not they would have a very high chance of dieing.  Animals don’t have hands to pick the baby up and carry it a least most don’t.  Here I even looked this up for you. Baboons wean their young around 420 (which 365 in a year, so that is one year and 55 days old, not two years or older) days of age. Young of baboon species become independent sometime after weaning, although the mother may continue to carry, groom, and otherwise help her offspring after that time.

[Liza55]

wow- that's alot Wooly. The best thing about this forum is for such a thing as pregnancy and motherhood and everything that comes with it, there's a thousand different ideas and opinions. And we can all voice them for others here. I still think it's our society that sets it up as strange to breastfeed so long or in public, and find that truly sad. Course I'm from California!

[Wooly25]

Yeah, your in a very liberal state, I am in Indiana a very modest state.  Things are viewed very differently from there to here.  Guess that explains the differences in opinion.

[siren of the sea]

Not all of californians walk around with their boobs out haha.