Problems with son not talking

[nalla]

I posted this over at the Child behavior forum, but I figured I would get more responses over here.
My son will be 2 the begining of July. Just to give you a little info, he was born with spina bifida and hydrocephalus, but there has been no brain damage. He has been in speech therapy for 6 months or so because he isn't speaking. He said 2 words when he was 1, and says dadda. But this isn't really my concern. His therapist is kinda having us force him to say words. (we know he can do it but he is very stubborn!!)She is having us pick a few of his fav. things and not giving it to him untill he attemps to say it. She said we could push till he is almost in tears. But not to do this at meal time. So today he wanted to read his fav. book. He brought it to me and we read it. Then he signed "more" because he wanted to read it again. So I thought this would be a good time to try this out. I tried getting him to say more. After a little while of him signing over and over again he realised that he wasn't going to get me to read it. He started screaming and trying to make himself cry. (honeslty it was really cute him scunching his face trying to cry). He was getting more and more upset and eventually started crying. I know it was just a fit. After about 20 min he still hadn't even tried to say more. (I know he can make the sound "M") My question is, do I give in or just never give him what he wants till he tries to say it? I know giving in is wrong because it will teach him that all he has to do is cry and he will get his way. but I'm not sure about this situation. I won't be able to talk to his therapist about this for another week, so I thought I would get your opinions about this.

[AndiJ78]

That is tough. I mean, he was asking for more through sign and that has always worked before so it must be quite puzzling to him why it doesn't work now.

It does seem like a tough love approach, but maybe this is a popular technique. I can't imagine how tough it must have been to sit through that for both of you. I am going to assume that you were encouraging him, not simply holding the book up waiting ; ) It is a good thing i am not in this position, I think on this one I may have caved because he is 2, he did actually ask (even if it was in ASL), and perhaps I would have continued to try and illicit his speech while reading the story.

The will of a two year old is mighty. Good luck, I imagine you will have a bit of frustration ahead of you with this. You have been through so much already, this will probably seem like a drop in the bucket in the long run.

[nalla]

lol, yes, I was trying to get him to say more. That made me laugh with the thought of just holding the book up and expecting him to say it! My poor baby, that would be so sad!
It was really hard when he started crying. But thankfully he has a very specific mad cry. He was definatly mad, so that made it a little easier. But then he just stopped crying/screaming and went off to something else.(after 20 min or so) My main concern is I don't know if I pushed too hard and 20-30 min was too much. I don't know if waiting for him to give up or give in is the way to go.
He is such a strong willed baby!! I wasn't expecting him to hold out that long.

And honestly I think we (ok, I did it! ;) ) have spoiled him a lot! The tough love thing is a lot harder than I expected when it comes to him. He picked up on the signing SO fast and didn't put up a fight at all, I guess I assumed he would do the same thing with talking. But for some reason he just doesn't want to talk.

[NataliesMommy]

I have a friend that is going through a similar situation with her son.  Her sons speach training told her to do the same thing.  She said it kills her to see him struggle and wants to give in but the technique is working, he is starting to say more and more words.  Best wishes to you Nalla.

[mum2beagain]

HI !!!, James saw his speech therapist for the first time on Monday, he wouldn't do a thing for her that she wanted and he wouldn't say anything to her either only 'Juice"! He is very stubborn, he is actually begining to speak very well now he just wouldn't do it for her!! Does Nathan understand you, like when you ask him to do things, is his hearing okay? His signing is pretty good too isn't it? Early intervention is a good thing but sometimes I want to tell James' OT to just let him be a kid, they can be really pushy sometimes don't you think? It wears me down sometimes. Like James I am sure Nathan will speak to you when good and ready, my cousin didn't speak a word until he was 3, he just made noises and pointed, that was back in the day when there wasn't so much of this early intervention stuff. He now teaches English Literature at a girls school in England and was always in the top grades of his classes.

[nalla]

Jo-
Yes, he understand pretty much everything we say. Like if we ask him to go get his blocks and give them to sissy he will do it. And yes, is signs very well. His Speech T. told us that a child will take about a month to pick up a sign, Nathan would pick up at least 2 a week. He's such a smart little man! :) It gets kinda tiring because we see a ST from early intervention once a month and his regular one at the hospital every week, then his reg. PT every 2 weeks and the early intervention PT every 2 weeks also. But so far they haven't been too pushy. But we have only dealt with them for a few months.
A lot of the time Nathan will shake his head no when we ask him to say something. So we know a big part of his problem is he is just stuborn!

Nathan does the same thing with his ST. We have been seeing his regular one for about 6 months and she has only heard his voice 3 times! lol little stinker! He won't even babble for her! But as soon as we get in the car he will start making sounds like crazy!!
Are you guys going to start to teach James signs? It's so cute watching a child sign. It amazes me how fast they pick and understand the signs!

NataliesMommy-
It's good to know that other speech t. are doing the same thing and it's been working. :)

[myproblem]

Besides stubbornness, there may some other reason that he doesn't speak yet. He has had several shunt surgeries right? one recently? Surgery is very scary for small children, and also physically traumatic. I do think that maybe 20 minutes is too long to try, especially since he's at the age to try to battle wills with you. Maybe you should ask his therapist how long you should push him. My opinion is that he will probably just begin to speak one day when he realizes that some people don't know what he wants, and don't know ASL. Do your best, but not to the point that you feel bad. Have you seen the PBS show called Signing Time. It's really good, and I know a lot of parents of disabled kids who use it to suppliment their therapy. You can also buy the DVD's, but I heard they're expensive. I just record each episode on Tivo so my dd can watch them again anytime. It might be good for your other kids to be able to learn to sign more with him.

[tiredbuthappy]

i was initially surprised that a speech therapist is pushing him so hard, but i assume that it has to do with his specific developmental concerns related to spina bifida? in my experiences, children who don't speak at 20 months are still considered within the normal developmental spectrum, especially if they find alternate ways to communicate their needs (as he does with signing) and as long as they show comprehension. in the center i worked in, we did see several children over the years who did not speak at that age. we were always told that when they are ready, they will speak (and they did). Nathan may take a bit longer since he is so proficient at signing and he doesn't have a need to talk right now. But, from what i have seen, all of the children in these cases did not have any other special needs. like i said, perhaps she's pushing nathan at such a young age because of his specific condition. i assume that you have been provided with a well-trained therapist who knows better than I would what Nathan's needs are.

[mum2beagain]

James used a few signs at pre school before he learnt to speak but no we aren't using them now. James now has hundreds of words and is begining to talk in sentances now. He is struglling with answering questions, posing questions and following dirctions with more than one step to them. James has a problem concentrating and also he sometimes just shouts things out without thinking, today at pre school he joined another class for circle time and when one song finished he was shouting out lots of other songs he wanted them to sing! He gets a bit excited sometimes! 6 months ago James had began to say lots of words (mostly objects) but didn't seem to understand instructions at all, this is getting better. I love James' physical therapist, she is wonderful, very encouraging and full of praise for James' acheivements, she has never said 'he should be doing this, that or the other by now' she always focuses on what he is achieving and the rate at which he is progressing and always full of suggestions as to how we can help him with the next step. The OT and ST always leave me feeling like what James is doing isn't good enough, it really gets me down sometimes, I feel like telling them to bugger off, when James was tiny we didn't know what his outcome would be and we feel he has achieved so much, no one is perfect!

[anxiousmomtobe?]

Wow, I know lots of two year olds who are bright and not speaking.  Many kids just burst into full sentences at 3.  

This seems extreme to me.  If he is signing and communicating well, I think they should ease off on the poor boy.