Vaccinations 2

Ok so I posted a question about vaccinations maybe a couple of weeks ago, and it seems to be a controversial subject. I happened upon this bulletin on myspace and I found it quite interesting. It has actually been censored several times but ppl are finding ways around that. Thought u ladies might wanna read :

So I tried to copy and paste here but this site doesnt allow html. So here is the link

http://bulletins.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=bulletin.edit&hash=MIG%252fBgorBgEEAYI3WAP9oIGwMIGtBgorBgEEAYI3WAMBoIGeMIGbAgMCAAECAmYDAgIAwAQIml4glpndc0gEEI8srrH2K1KCkLooG5wzjygEcD9LSIzxBmbrQwzx5yxIKIuNbDgmlRa9ddfMEJB3O2Bo2SDO%252bsH%252bLo%252fpiFBS3324haSlFyNaSBjcJFMwNtRGKNDp5LJelOdb%252fmMhz2%252bsR5So4g132slXYUgCSjsWkzSr00SMukVpR%252bbaEzjlyQghElI%253d&MyToken=db92006b-d89c-42fd-9dce-8a6cf783a05d

Hope this works!!

[ShamansMommy]

Sorry wrong link...here is the right one. =)

http://bulletins.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=bulletin.read&messageID=3839106219&MyToken=65c045ea-b543-4128-8f1b-3ca1f12ce384

[tomel]

For some reason I couldnt open it.
How did you find it?

[ShamansMommy]

Do u have a myspace account? I could just send u the info. =)

[tomel]

I do,but I never use it.
Im not really sure what my address would be?

[tomel]

I just figured it out.
Here you go
http://www.myspace.com/meltomizzy

[JaydensMommy]

You can also check out www.mercola.com.  There will be a google bar at the top of the page...just type in "vaccinations" and you will get a bunch of articles written by Dr. Mercola.  Very controversial stuff!  I am a big believer that vaccinations do more harm than good.  There are arguments that some cause Autism.  Kind of ironic that 1 out of several thousand kids used to get autism and now it is 1 in 166.  That is an alarming change over the years so I think there is some merit to the claims that vaccines cause more harm than good. Also, there are ways to get around having your child vaccined.  It is a cash cow for the medical field, but I think you will see more parents not getting kids certain vaccines.  Check out mercola.com!

[peekawho]

Never forget that the fact that the majority of the developed world DOES vaccinate for formerly deadly and disabling childhood diseases, protects YOUR children against contracting them.  

You are probably too young to remember the consequenses of the once common childhood diseases.  Studies have long ago disproven any link between vaccines and autism...that's old news.  Better services, access to care, better diagnostics, and other factors probably account for the increased #s that we see today.

Could be autism is caused by eating at McDonalds during pregnancy, eh?  Far more people do that than did many years ago.  You can find a website touting any cause you wish.  

Hope you never contract rubella while pregnant from an unvaccinated child.  Your baby could be born deaf, blind, or mentally retarded.  Rubella still exists, thanks in part to the decreasing #s of vaccinated children.  

[ShamansMommy]

I didnt post this to start the debate back up. We got everyones opinion in the original Vaccinations post. I just figure there are moms out there just looking for the truth, like me. I found something of interest and wanted to share. No need to get catty or insult anyones beliefs or lifestyles. If u are for vaccinations and aren't looking for info on it...just pass it on by. I am sure there is someone that could use your opinion on some other thread. Peace to all.

[tomel]

My previous post is for peekahwo.

[Agiesmom]

I'm with Peek.  I think it's more likely to be a combination of other things--additives, perservatives, hormones, environmental issues, etc.  There's no way to tell for certain.

And I think that the criteria and/or definitions of disorders or problems is more defined now than years ago.  After all, NO ONE had ADHD when I was a kid (35 years ago).

Tomel, she's just posting her opinion and has every right to do that--just like you.

[tomel]

Geez were gona start this debate again.

How old are you peekawho?

There cant be that much of an age gap between us or you wouldnt be on the maternal forum.

You are an expert on the causes of Autism?
Nobody knows the definite cause. If they did there would be a cure or at least it would would part of the prenatal screening. And no vaccines are not OLD news it is still part of the research process.

Someone who questions immunizations isnt just afraid of autism, there are other things that can happen besides autism.

People who dont have autistic children should not have such animosity towards those that do and suffer so much.
Do you believe cancer is purely genetic? If your child got cancer would you like someone telling you they probably got it from you eating Mcdonalds?

Yes there are still diseases out there that can spread. But are you absolutely positively sure that your child will never catch any of them?

[cutiemama]

As always, I agree with you completely! Very well stated.

There was an outbreak of pertussis at my DDs school and I just thank my lucky stars that my newborn didn't get it because she and I made lots of classroom visits and it could have been very severe if she got pertussis before she herself was vaccinated. Much to my older DD's dismay, she had to go on a course of antibiotics as a preventative measure to protect her baby sister.

I think that it's actually negligent not to have your children vaccinated. Autism wasn't an issue when I was a kid 20 years ago and we were all vaccinated so shouldn't that speak volumes about other factors being the cause like the environment?  

Just my 2 cents!

[ShamansMommy]

I cannot express the sympathy I have for you. My heart is breaking and my stomach is sick from reading what that was like for you. It makes me never want to put my lil girl down. I want to always protect her. I have moments where I am torn on this issue because both sides are true. Vaccines HAVE done a lot of good, I'm sure. But I cannot bear what u just described. My gut tells me to steer clear. I want to post what you wrot on my blog...would u mind??

[Mozartcowgirl]

ok before i say this.. keep in mind i think everyone here is awesome. even if our opinions are quite different...

i REMEMBER what i was like before I got shots to enter school.. i was 7 years old.. i remember how i felt.. what my thoughts were.. heck.. i even have video.  after i got my shots.. i was sick.. alot.. allergies started.. my stomach was no longer the same.. and the way in which my brain processed things.. changed dramatically.  I got sick .. with the flu.... seemed like i was catching everything... and the most devastating thing of all.. there were times.. when i could not process the most simplest of things... like... stacking blocks... or putting a story in order.. my parent were naturalists... who at that time.. were forced by a COURT to put me into school.. and FORCED to have me vaccinated.. my problems did not start because of any other reason.  i have done so much research that it would make another person scream.  i know  that the vaccines brought about aspergers syndrome. i now have crohns disease.. all my life.. since i was 7.  it is SOMETHING in the vaccine.. that caused it.. whether it was a preservitive.. or the actual vaccine.. WHO CARES!!!  the government should STOP!! and take another look at what they are doing.    I agree that vaccines have changed our world for the better... i am not argueing that at all.. however.. there are SOME people... who it affects differently.. and has very  negative effects .  

When my son died.. only a week after given his shots.. we went to a group of parents who had lost their children.. only AFTER getting the vaccines.. come on... how is anyone going to argue TWINS dying the same way.. at the same time.. AFTER getting shots?? we felt so bad for those parents.. i feel so bad for all parents who have lost their children due to this..

are we all in some cloud??? do you believe everything the government tells you ?? omg.. how many times has the government lied to us??  AFter my son died.. i did ALOT of research.. and the fact that I was told that SOME children. adults WILL have adverse reactions..  and that some will be catastrophic.... the death of many children.. yep.. a nightmare.. but.. again.. i was told... that its well worth it.. because of the greater good.  ( one child dying to save 1000.. this is what i was told...

[Mozartcowgirl]

LOLi got so flustered i clicked on post comment..

ok anyway.. i was TOLD this was going to occur.. its just like.. the whole dont ask dont tell thing.. if you asked .. they will tell.. and THEY DID.  if you dont ask.. they dont have to say anything.  i dont have to have my other children vaccinated...and some vaccines.. i wont.. its a personal choice.  sometimes the benefits outweigh the risks..and vice versa.  

and anyway.. it is my opinion.. that if you have not experienced something.. then dont act like you know everything about it.. i feel that i have every right to say my peace about it.. i lost my son.. millions have..
until it happens to you .. you will continue to have a different opinion.. i have yet to meet ANYONE who has lost their child due to vaccines that has said to me..

Oh... its ok .. my child made a sacrifice so that others wont get sick

oh. it was probably just something wrong with him anyway..
oh. he was destined to die...

like i said before.. until you have lived it.. its easy to accept something you have been told all your life.. how about experiencing it ?? thats alot different than just reading about it.. or being told something.. you get to see it.. first hand.. talk to others who had same experiences..
you guys would be amazed at the indifferent i recieved after my son passed away.. and the fact that i was told it was for the greater good.. well.. wow.. pardon me for feeling passionate about something that took my sons life.

again.. all you guys are great.. please dont post about you hating me.. or calling me names.. or anything like that.. lol..

i am glad i got this vent out.. I hope and pray that NO ONE here goes through what my family has gone through..  

[peekawho]

Mozart,
I'm sorry for what you've been through.  It's very, very sad.  Whats sadder is that people die every day from "safe" drugs.  In fact, there is absolutely no such thing as a completely safe drug.  You can die after taking a Tylenol.  

I am in no way diminishing your loss, which is so very tragic.  But the statistical fact is that vaccines against common childhood diseases which usued to kill hundreds of thousands, are one of the triumphs of modern medicine and immunology, and continue to protect millions upon millions of people every day without incident.

Of course, once you have had a tragedy such as yours, you will not chance vaccinating any other of your children, with good reason.  There could be something in their unique genetic systems that make it dangerous for them.  

But vaccines are the most commonly used biologic substance that has ever been given to the majority of humans on earth, for 40 or 50 years.  

I'm not totally pro all vaccines.  There are some that I personally feel can wait, such as HepB.  Chickenpox is another one that seems optional.  I'm not at all sure very young infants need them according to the schedule that is recommended--personally, if I had babies again I'd wait until after 4-5 months to begin--but, I'd breastfeed to provide my own immunities.  

But the vaccines used today are far safer than the mercury laden ones that everyone of my generation recieved.  The sad truth is that there will always be someone harmed or killed by commonly used drugs or biologicals.  People react unusually sometimes.  If vaccines disappeared from the face of the earth though, many thousands would begin to be affected and sometimes die, as serious childhood diseases reclaim their former standing.  

[tomel]

I am also very sorry you had to loose your child. No parent anywhere on this earth should ever have to go thru somethng like that.

I had posted on the original post regarding vaccines that my son had allergies, chronic diarhea (diarrhea), numerous ear infections and a bout of pneumonia. I noted that after I stopped immunizing him at 2 1/2 he didnt have these problems anymore.
Someone had responed to me that this couldnt be true and that anyone who thought that didnt understand what vaccines were for.
Well I also think it was a coincedance that he had gotten alot "better' once  I stopped. I got him on some good supplements .
I will say he is hardly ever sick and he is even in preschool. He still has on occasion minor allergies, but not nearly as bad as they were.

I learned the hard way with my son I know that my children do not react well to the vaccines. Technically my son does have alot of his immunizations, so he is no totally immunization free.
Will I immunize my next child? Mabye but with much more caution and not with all the immunizations that they say that they need. I will wait and see thats for sure.
I am not against modern medicine or the medical community. But I also dont believe that we should believe everything we are told. I am thankful we live in a country where we can and should question our governement.

So some parents see me as "irresopsonsible" mabye. But it doesnt matter to me. Like you said until someone has experienced something they cant be a good judge of it.

Also merury (thimersal) wasnt bad until something like 1999.

[tomel]

I dont think anyone will hate you or call you names.
Much love.

Me mabye but not you:}

[Mozartcowgirl]

yes.. i agree that vaccinations have saved the lives of millions.. i understand that.. but what i am saying.. is that to many people.. vaccinations.. kill..and cause many problems..

i have suggested MANY times to the CDC . that perhaps research into what what gene causes these problems.. they are doing it with many types of cancers.. they are doing it with heart disease.. they are doing it with alot of things..

maybe this is the age where it all starts. who knows.

i think about what i was told by the CDC after my son died.. FOR THE GREATER GOOD... WORTH IT FOR ALL..  I was told.. that my sons passing.. was a "drop in the bucket" they sent me information on mortality rates of children who recieve vaccines..
rather than taking such a cold attitude. they could be trying to isolate the thing that causes this to happen.. As of 2006.. they arent doing anything.

i live with aspergers everyday.. i know it did something to me. i remember.. i have listened to hundreds of anguished parents... listened to their stories of how everything was peaches and cream. until the vaccines.. i have seen videos of healthy vibrant children.. only then to watch them walk into the room.. totally changed..

after richard got his shots.. he became listless.. had a fever.. and just stared into space.. i was so concerned.. i made calls to his doctor.. and all i was told was .. it will go away.. that sometimes happens...
i get off work.. come home.. and find my son dead.. gave him cpr... watched as the helicopter landed in my front yard.. listened as the police ran around.. stared at the medical supplies that were used .. .. smelled different smells associated with medical resusitation..smelled my sons throwup all over my hands and face..( when i gave him cpr .. fluid form his tummy came up)   i remember the drive to the emergency room... remember the tiny sound proof room they placed me in.. watched the dr's mouth. but could not hear.. as he told me there was nothing they could have done. remember as they held me down.. remember as i wanted to see him.. i didnt believe he was gone... i remember the way he looked.. with the tubes still in him..i bundled him up in his pooh blanket... i didnt want to leave him. I called the medical examiner everyday.. the nighmarish thoughts that i had.. seeing him .. all alone.. in some cold refrigerator... my breasts becoming engorged... painful.. i could not feed my baby.. i could no longer hold him in my arms.. and lovingly look down on him..

believe me.. "for the greater good" not once.. did i  say to myself.

[Mozartcowgirl]

sorry..lol..

again.. I LOVE YOU GUYS>.lol

[Mozartcowgirl]

the story about my son was in no way directed to be mean or anything.. i just wanted to get that out... as.. while yes.. it happens... i just wish they would isolate the gene that causes this... its a nightmare.. and i could only wish that we all could see both sides.. and understand both.  i am sure that you do.. as you stated before... so please dont htink i was zeroing in on you..lol.

huggs..lol

[peekawho]

I'm 49.  There is no "age limit" for using any of the forums.  I'm a nurse with 30 years experience in Labor and Delivery and Maternal/Child care.  So I contribute what I can here, along with the other "old cows" as we are so fondly called here.

Yes, I have the right to express my opinion.  Which is, again, the fact that the rest of the developed world DOES vaccinate helps to keep UNVACCINATED children safe.

Helps keep them safe, because any unvaccinated child is still at risk from diseases that we had almost erradicated.  Rubella, or German measles, is unfortunately NOT uncommon, and an enormous risk to pregnant women and their developing fetuses.  

Its a decision every parent makes according to what they feel is right.  But make no mistake about it, your children are protected because OTHER people vaccinate.  Not because the diseases are gone.  They are not.  They are just uncommon now, with the success of the vaccination programs.  

[Mozartcowgirl]

sure.. that would be fine.. i just want people to understand that while both sides are true.. it doesnt have to be that way.. does it??? it just riles me up again..lol.. i wish they could isolate the gene that makes some babies, children and adults suceptible to adverse reactions.. we do it with foods.. we even do it with the enviroment.. cant we do it for our children? thats something i would definately pay for. if we all paid.. wouldnt that help? and once again.. CDC wants nothing to do with it..Like they told me..a drop in the bucket..one out of a thousand aint bad. yeah.. you bet.

its so hard to just tell someone something.. when that person goes through it.. it changes your perspective.  I will never get those thoughts.. smells.. and feeling out of my mind.. never. i WISH that no other families go through that. Just educate yourself.. know the risks.. and .. like a grain of salt.. realize that anything can happen.. but dont dwell onit.. just do your best.. you are a great mom.. we all are.. hugggggssss

[tomel]

It makes me very sad you had to loose your child. I am very sorry. It makes me sick how insensitive the loss of your baby was treated by the CDC .

If you dont mind me asking which immunization was it? I understand if you dont want to answer. I apologize if I shouldnt be asking.

[Mozartcowgirl]

PERTUSSIS
PERTUSSIS
PERTUSSIS

thats the one.