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Vaccinations
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Vaccinations

My DD had her first doctors appt today. He is a Homeopathic (sp?) Dr. I asked about vaccinations because I have read some things I dont like, like some of them causing autism. He said there are risks either way, but none of his 4 children had them and grew up to be healthy adults. Anyone have thoughts on this? Keep in mind I am a vegan, had a midwife and no drugs...a real naturalistic hippie chick, so to speak. I dont really dig conventional medicines, but am not really well read on this subject yet. Wondering what u guys think in the meantime and at what age u had ur baby vaccinated.
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I just go with the flow. I know my children have to be vacc. to go to school. I have a 4&6 year old and they have got their vacc. since they were born. (whenever they 1st start doing them) I have heard of the risk but I would rather not take a chance of them getting a disease for not getting them.
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I've always chosen not to do the optional ones - the chicken pox,  and I think there's something else that's optional for public school.  No flu shots,  either.  

But I think the risk of getting something horrible,  like polio,  is much worse than any possible risk of the vaccine.  I personally know two people who contracted polio and I wouldn't wish it on anyone -

I also believe the autism isn't linked to vaccines - have you heard Dr. Dean O'Dell's discussion on that?  Pretty convincing.  

On the other hand,  the chicken pox vaccine doesn't appear to work for very long and leaves kids vulnerable when they are older - best to just have that disease as a child,  I think.

Best wishes with your decision.
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It is a total myth that children have to be vaccinated to go to school. All you have to do is sign a peace of paper saying for religous reasons you do not vacinate and they have to let your children attend.

I stopped vaccinating my son at 2 1/2 since then he has never been healthier.

If your seeing a homeopathic doct then your on the right track. Regualar peds. will psh for them and make you feel guilty if you dont.

There are alot of books on the topic and you can google it.

Obviously I am against them,

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I'm a very "granola" type mom too...breatfed for a long time, homemade baby food, nontoxic cleaning products in my home, you name it .... Luckily my pediatrician, although not homeopathic has very much the same kind of beliefs. I asked him a/b this subject when my son was getting his first year shots and he said to get them. There is such a question mark about autism and until further research is done I think it is too much of a risk not to get the vaccines. But it's a personal decision. I have a friend who specializes in the treatment of autistic children and even she gave her child vaccines. But that is just my experience. Good luck making your decision and be sure to hear both sides and judge for yourself.
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Very good resource April Discover Magazine Article

They do not know for sure what causes autism. But it is beleived it is environmental. No it may not JUST be vaccinations, it may be a combo of genes, vaccinations, pollutants, mothers diet during pregnancy, food intake etc.

But one thing that is for sure and you can find info on this on US Congress website. There have been numerous hearing on the matter of thimersal (mercury) used in teh vaccinations and linking it to dev. delays, ADHD, Autism. So much so that the thimersal has been banned in most vaccinations. However with that being said keep in mind there are still stock piles of vaccinations with the thimersal that are still used.

There  have been parents that HAVE seen their children change overnight from one vaccination. THese parents are out there and not hard to find.

Here is a good link http://www.generationrescue.org/

Keep in mind that the vaccinations are the disease themselves being injected in your child and that it may not JUST cause autism
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tomel,  you've been lucky because everyone ELSE is vaccinating their children.  If they weren't,  there would be horrific,  rampant diseases that would put your child at risk.

As it is,  you're benefitting from diseases being eradicated by other people who are vaxxing their kids.  

Which,  I guess,  is a good thing.  It's like getting in free.  
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if you lived where i live you might feel differently.  i live in central california. a huge agriculture valley.  we have many immigrants from mexico, laos, several countries.  there have been noted times where children or even adults came here and were contagious with a disease that if not vaccinated against, could be very bad.  i wont risk that.  if everyone decided to not do it, then it could possibly turn into an epidemic.  i respect your desicion to not, but this is life in some cities. then there is the situation if you want to travel outside the US.  take that disney cruise to the carribean,  go to mexico for a week,  wherever you might want togo, you need to be vaccinated and it seems easier to have taken care of it early in life.  i would rather not put this into my baby, but the risk of him catching something i could have prevented would be a terrible weight on my shoulders.
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I am against immunizing. We grew up with a little girl who was perfectly normal until an hour after her first vacc. Now she is autistic.
It is your child. Read all the fors and againsts. And don't let anyone pressure you!
If you look at the graphs of how diseases dropped after immunizing started you will notice that they were already on the decrease due to hygiene awareness.
If you read about your bodies natural disease resistance you will notice the barriers your body uses to resist disease, eg, layers of skin...

A needle goes straight through all the barriers and leaves the little  child ??????
Let your children develop their own disease resistance after all isn't that what a healthy immune system is supposed to do?

Most vaccs dont stop you from getting eg. chicken pox anyway. And it is good if you have it when you are a child anyway. Then your body is resistant to it.
Better than having it when you are older.

Don't be pressured by your doctor. Do they tell you they get a cut for every one they vacc...
of course not.



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yes but your body cannot protect you from certain diseases.  if you could my grandmother wouldnt have spent time in the "iron lung" and wore a brace on her leg for the rest of her life.  small pox wouldnt have been pandemic killing thousands of people.  im not pressuring, but come on, you cant think if you placed your child into a situation where they could catch this, they would have their own immunity?? and if you look at the millions upon millions of people who have been immunized, the few that have had problems, there is no way you can say its not safe.  as far as autism, they dont know. cleaners have been blamed, vaccines,  what is next? like i said look at the statistics, not the ones put out by the anti vaccine groups, but the truth.
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I kind of understand what you are saying,  but I have to disagree.

I know a mother who COMPLETELY blames vaccines for her child's severe autism,  but her child had a disorder before her 12 month vaccinations.  She just wouldn't acknowledge it,  and then when she got vaxxed,  she blamed it on the shots.  I didn't see much of a change in her before or after,  she was always autistic,  just not acknowledged until the mom could blame something outside of her daughter,  or genetics.  

Diseases weren't going down before vaccines.  Polio was every parent's nightmare before the vaccine came along,  and then some people stupidly didn't vaccinate,  and their children were still at risk and now many are crippled.

Have you ever walked through an old graveyard?  There are parents buried next to many small children.  Used to be,  small children were gravely at risk for dath due to disease - and their headstones are bittersweet.  Such caring recollections of these tiny children,  taken too young.

I'm kind of sick up to here with parents who don't recognize the value of modern medicine.  Yes,  the bst of both worlds is to make everyone else vaccinate their children except for your own children,  so that diseases are irradicated and your own children don't even have to suffer a needle *****.  

BUT.  There are a lot of parents who now are not vaccinating.  So,  their children are at risk for carrying and passing deadly diseases between them all.  Good luck with that.  : ( .

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I feel the same about peds thats why I chose the doc I did even though he doesnt accept medicaid and she is covered. Why did u choose to stop vaccinating ur son??
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I agree with what RockRose said.  When you don't vaccinate your child, you're depending on the rest of us being responsible and vaccinating our children in order for your children to be safe when you pass on vaccinating.

Believe me, I've read and read some more about this and I felt torn--we all want what's best for our children.  I ultimately came down on the side of vaccinating.  Reading this article by Dr. Sears contributed to my decision:
http://iparenting.com/sears/answers/vaccinations.htm  He began practicing pre-vaccines and has seen some awful things.  I think we are so far removed from the dreadful diseases from which we are protected with vaccines that we can't really appreciate the possible consequences of not vaccinating.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do.
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i dont think you can say your child is healthier because of not vaccinating, that doesnt have anything to do with it.  those are the kinds of comments a person makes when they dont understand what vaccinating does.  all i have to say is if any of your children god forbid, became sick with something because you didnt feel a shot was worth it, you cant blame anyone but yourselves.  in this day and age with all we have to protect ourselves from illness, it seems so unintelligent to not do. do you go to the dentist for preventative care? its the same thing.  
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Rockrose-How old were these people that you knew who had Polio?

To the previous posted commentsyou are right we the parents are to take full responsibility for if our child becomes sick.
But a parent who doesnt immunize like myself does also take other precautions. One of them being giving the child supplements like probitotics, multi-vitamins, Omegas things of this nature to keep their immune system up.

Look up and see what how other countries treat immunizations, countries like France for example banned the Heb B shot. Europe doesnt even immunize their kids as much as are kids are immunized. Alot of it has to do with big drug companies and big money. ALot of the things that are kids are immunized for we as parents were already immunized for. Alot of the diseases were on there way out when these immunizations were reintroduced. I have dont the research and read alot on the subject.  There is alot of info. arguing both sides.

Regarding the other previous posted comment, yes my son had chronic diarhea (diarrhea),  chronic ear infections, once had pneumonia I foud it to be a very strange coincendence that once I stopped he seemed to not have any of these things anymore.

Another thing is that just because someone is immunized doenst mean if there were an outbreak of something thay would be totally safeguarded. There has been incidents of that happening.

It is harder if you dont immunize if there is something going around in school then you have to pull your kids out. For example when kids in a shcool were given the flu shot the kids that werent immunized had to be pullin out of school for 2 weeks. So they wouldnt contract what the other kids were jsut injected with.
If you want to immunize your child then by all means go ahead and immunize.
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Yes but wouldnt we (the parents) have been the ones who were vaccinated and essentially stopped the diseases? Not our children. Think about it that doesnt make any sense.

I dont consider what we have gone thru with our son and what I have had to learn the hard way a free anything.

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I have travelled outside the US  to Europe several times and have never been asked once about my immunizations.

I guess if I travelled to a 3rd world country then it would be different. But as an adult I would take any shot they would give me because I am an adultt and my immune system is mature.

My baby or small child would not travel to these places. If and when my children grow up and decide they want to travel then, then they can get immunized.
Until they turn 18 I have to do everything I believe is safe to protect them.

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Until you can give an example of when that occured. Children passing on diseases to one another becuse they werent vaccinated, then I  am not sure what your talking about.

Some diseases being were on the decline, then the immunizations were re-introduced.

One of the biggest ones under scrutiny has been the MMR the MMR used to be 3 different shots, the combinations of all 3 has been proven to be harmful.

"I've always chosen not to do the optional ones - the chicken pox, and I think there's something else that's optional for public school. No flu shots, either"

Why did you choose to pick and choose which ones you give your child? You must have had a reason for doing so?
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what vaccines would you reccomend?  Would you reccomend all of them that are offered?  I am due in 2 weeks and I know they start getting vaccines 2 weeks after they are born.  I have lookedat info about different vaccines, but a lot of different sites have different reasons for giving the vaccines.  Just would like some input from you
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Just wanted to add that what I wrote above was based on the research I did and while I believe it to be true, I'm not an authority on the subject--just a loving mom trying to do what I think best (like the rest of us here).
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ShamansMommy, I'm not judging anyone.  Or being dramatic.  It's a fact.  When you don't vaccinate believing that your child will not contract any horrible diseases (and I'm assuming you believe this--surely you wouldn't refrain from vaccinating if you thought there were a chance that your child would get a life-threatening disease)--when you do this, you are counting/depending on the rest of us to vaccinate to keep the diseases at bay.  If half of us didn't vaccinate, the chances of your non-vaccinated child getting polio would be FAR greater than if the vast majority of us do vaccinate.  This is simple math here--nothing more.  So don't twist it into my thinking you're a bad mommy.  Like I said, I struggled with it, too (did you happen to check out my link above?).

Tomel, with all due respect, I read similar no-vac propaganda when I was investigating this.  You really need to wade through so much and it really can be confusing--to the point where you have no idea what is true or real and what is not.  I understand this.  But France TEMPORARILY suspended the school-based Hep B vaccination program in 1998, but maintained recommendations for vaccinating infants in place.  The decision was misunderstood to mean that they banned the vaccination altogether and permanently, but they did not.  Here's a site with EU vaccination schedules (France is included and Hep B is listed):
http://www.euvac.net/graphics/euvac/vaccination/vaccination.html

This really is a confusing and difficult thing to decide.  You just have to do the research (and search for opposing views from reputable sources) and do what you feel is best.  That's all any of us can do.
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UUUHHH I am not depending on anyone to do anything. R u saying your responsability is saving my child from my irresponsability?? Dont u think thats a lil dramatic?? AND JUDGEMENTAL?  I was just asking for ppl's personal experience and FACTS. Please dont imply I am less of a mother than you because I dont trust doctors to pump my child full of things she may not need. I would never judge you for doing it, please dont judge me for not doing it. And Tomel....RIGHT ON!!!
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Did you read the bottom of that it said
Must be given at birth to infants born to HBSag positive mothers

If you look at some of the other European countries like the Netherlands it says the same thing Only if mother has HBSag or if one of the parents is from a country where HepB is high in incident.

So in other words they dont beleive in giving it to a small infant unless it is absolutley necessary.
That isnt an option in the US they just give it to them regardless.

Belgium doenst even have any shots given until 2 months of age, Austria 3 months

Did you thoroughly read your resource?
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sure do.. i now have hypothyroid.. crohns disease.....and a slew of other things.. immune related.. that i have had EVER SINCE those FRAACKING shots.  ahem. lol my mother felt so very bad when i became sick.. she KNEW it hurt me.. she had no choice... but WE DO NOW!!

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Yes, tomel...I read the bottom of it.  The #2 is only next to the "at birth" vaccination recommendation--meaning that the statement listed at the bottom (under #2) applies to THAT specific vaccination (the "at birth" one).  It means that you only give the "at birth" vaccination if the mother is HBsAg positive.  But the others are as scheduled regardless.  See?  Isn't this stuff confusing?

I think you may be a bit overly sensitive, tomel.  Honestly.  I don't view what anyone said here as mean.  You don't really view disagreeing with someone and giving your reasons as mean, do you?  It may be a bit uncomfortable if someone posts something that refutes something you believe, but that doesn't make them mean.

I love seeing differing opinions--and many people are passionate about them.  But that's a good thing, imo.  The differing opinions give me more to consider.
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Btw, I did thoroughly read my resource--but I wasn't seeking a resource to support vaccinating.  I was just posting the link because it had EU vac schedules (which I found interesting--some are fewer, but they all recommend quite a few--far more than I would imagine anyone who were no-vac would consider).  And the link also showed that France recommends Hep B.  I just thought it would be interesting reading for you.  If you see something to support your position, that's fine with me.  Really.
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FYI.. anyone.. you do not have to have ANY vaccinations to be able to attend public school.. you simply fil out a form.. stating religious or medical  beliefs that you do not wish.. for your own personal reason that you have chosen NOT to have your children vaccinated.

my oldest are ... and seem to be very healthy..... save ofr a tonsilectomy.... and some other supposed "normal" problems...


my 9 week old died as a result of vaccines.. ( they called it SIDS) Autopsy found some things i shall not disclose.. that pointed directly to the vaccines he had gotten 7 days before..)



my newborn .. will NOT get vaccines..

this is al of course.. a personal decision.


I have aspergers syndrome..  ( form of autism)as a result of the vaccine..yeah yeah i know.. i will get some flack for saying this..lol. i really dont care..... i was fine until i had the vaccines... just fine and healthy...... then wham!! sick sick sick!!

i dont care who opposes me on this.. but.. again.. PERSONAL PREFERENCE.



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Some reference sources

www.thinktwice.com

Book -Vaccines, Autism and Childhood Disorders
Crucial Data that could save your Child's Life
By Neil Z. Miller
Foreward by Bernard Rimland Phd

Discover Magazine
April 2007 Article on page 33

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I did choose to have my children vaccinated.    My nephew received his 1st vaccines and had a life threatening allergic reaction from the shot for whooping cough.  My sister was advised not to have him receive any further vaccines.  So she didn't.  I don't think she was being irresponsible with his health.  My daughter was recently diagnosed with ADD.  I don't know if it was linked to her getting shots.   If most children weren't vaccinated the US would be disease ridden.  
Mozartcowgirl:   I can completely understand you not wanting your son vaccinated due to complications with your son.  Would you ever consider telling me what the complications were?  Not on this board but I would give you my email address  
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some other resources

http://www.aapsonline.org/newsletters/july99.htm

http://www.thinktwice.com/hepb.htm

http://www.alaskawellness.com/VaccinationArchive.htm

http://www.909shot.com/Diseases/hepbfrance.htm

http://olpa.od.nih.gov/hearings/107/session1/reports/autism.asp
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Gohawks-Your baby will be given teh HepB shot the first day he/she is born in the hospital.

Agiesmom-When I was referring to the people that were  being mean it was in reference to those who were making accusations that the parents who dont immunize are putting the "responsibility" on other parents. As if it is somwhow a lazy decisions on our part.
I dont mind if anyone disagreees with me one bit. I know the info that is out there and I know the arguments for and against.

Like a previous post had said God forbid our kids get sick and start spreading disease amongst one another.

Well God forbid that children keep getting Autism/ADHD/PDDnos/Speech Problems etc.
These are way more on the rise than any other obscure disease.

1 in 150 kids diagnosed
1 in 94 boys
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Your right. If a child has a severe reaction to an immunization they are usually told not to keep immunizing.
This is another thing that can be excused for in order to get the child into school. But it of course would have to be approved by a doctor.

My niece had a sever reaction to one of her immunizations and was sick for days. Thank God she is ok now.
For some reason boys seem to be affected alot more. Nobody knows for sure why except I have read could be a link to their testosterone.  
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Like I said, you seem to be overly sensitive.  I explained the responsibility thing above when someone else got defensive--not sure if you just selectively read things (dangerous when doing research) or you don't understand some of what you read (also dangerous), or you just choose to ignore some of what you read, but the fact still remains that when you don't vaccinate, you rely on others to vaccinate.  Again--simple math here.  Nothing mean about it.  Just facts.

I honestly don't want to go round and round with you--you get too defensive for some reason.  I just like to read and reply to posts in which people share ideas, opinions, and information.  You obviously feel attacked when someone disagrees with you.  I jjust don't have time for that.

Good luck to you, though.
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Well obviously I wasnt the only person who felt "attacked",
Or the other person wouldnt have posted what she did.

I do feel some of the posts had gotten to personal/judegemental. But whatever. And honestly I dont feel attacked or defensive at all. I apologize if my posts imply that.

I have no problem whats so ever with people who want to immunize.
Almost all but a  few of my friends do, I would never discourage them otherwise.

When people ask me why I am against them I simply tell them why and I do have resources to back it up.
It is not a decision my spouse or I have made lightly and we do our best to protect our son.

I dont want to go round with anyone either.

I hope the person who orginially posted her questions got all the info. she was looking for from these posts to help make her decision.

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You were also right in your post regarding France. I guess I misread/forgot what I had regarding the HepB. They did just suspend it after a class action lawsuit.
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Another article regarding vaccinations

http://www.mothering.com/articles/growing_child/vaccines/wake.html
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If you decide you dont want to vaccinate your little one there are things you can take while nursing and when your little one when gets a little older.

There are DAN (Destroy Autism Now)doctors out there that use these type of homeoptahtic remedies for kids with autism and mothers to be.

Here is a weblink and lists them by state if your intereted in contacting one in your area
Or you could talk to your homeopath

http://www.autismwebsite.com/ari-lists/danus.html

My son doesnt have Autism but has speech delay and had mild hypotonia. along with allergies when he was younger, those seem to have gotten better
I give him Omegas, Probiotics, Multivitamins and digestive enzymes.  We saw huge gains in him when we started the Omegas at 19 months old.

While being pregnant with my second I take and Omega DHA and plan on taking a probiotic while I am nursing.  My ped. told me to nurse as long as I can since I wont be immunizing.

I used to belong to a Yahoo based web group that were parents striclty devoted to help there kids with Autism/ADHD by using the homepathic remedies I suggested above.  There are other groups like this out there.
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hi again.. if you would like to discuss what you asked about.. just message me on my my space.... you can find me under Mozartcowgirl..... you just type in double u double u double u  dot my space dot com slash Mozartcowgirl

we can talk about it there....  take care!

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I was curious do you have any other health issues? Thyroid, Allergies, Autoimmune anything of  this nature?

I understand if you dont want to answer.
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the following is a link the the cdc's recommended schedule of vaccinations.
http://www.cispimmunize.org/IZSchedule_Childhood.pdf

i am a preschool teacher, my husband a pharmacist. obviously, my dh is an advocate for modern medicine. despite this, we are not going to give our daughter every single vaccine on this list. we have decided to do something similar to what rockrose described.

first of all, we decided that we will have our child vaccinated on the later spectrum of recommended age. (ex: if recommended age for a vaccine is btw 6 months and 18 months, we will go more towards 18). Next, we will not have our child receive several vaccines at one time. these days children receive mutliple immunizations at one time so that parents don't have to make as many trips to the doctor's office. we will fork out the copay, and make the time to go as many times as we need. our child will not receive every single vaccine on that list. for example, unless my child starts to have multiple rotavirus infections, it seems unnecessary to get it. same for pnuemococcal vaccine. i agree with those who said that chicken pox is unneccessary. i would much rather my child get it is a child than as an adult.

finally, and most importantly, according to my DH, there are still some vaccines that use preservatives that he is not too sure about. vaccines with long shelf lifes because of certain preservatives may be sitting in your dr's office. instead, we plan on getting a prescription for the vaccines our baby needs, and getting it filled at a pharmacy. it will cost us more (more expensive due to shorter shelf life), but we feel it's worth it. despite these precautions that we will take, we agree that many vaccines are very important. we feel it would be irresponsible of us to not get certain vaccines.
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That is very interesting.

I wish I knew for sure which ones I could give my child without having to worry about any danger. If I did know I would give them to him.

Its been a hard decision for my DH and I because we do feel like it's Russian
Roulette either way. So we have leaned towards the not taking a chance of loosing a child mentally/developmentally.

When I did have my son immunized up until age 2 1/2 I would ask my doctors office about certain vaccines and which ones still had the thimersal or who made them stuff like that. They had no clue what I was talking about and treated me like was nuts for asking.  

But then I had also learned that it wasnt even neccesarily the thimersal that was causing the damage. Some of it was just the shots themselves. Some of the links I posted in previous post talk about that.

Which ones do you for sure avoid? Do you give your child the MMR combo.?

Thank you for the info

.

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Thank you for sharing that.
I am sorry you have to deal with all that. What a pain.
I think Temple Grandon (sp?) If I am not mistaken also has Chrons disease.

If you ever get a chance and can find it somewhere ther is a very good article in the April 2007 Discover magazine
It is called Understanding Autism The answer may lie in the gut, not in the head.

Talks about all the interanl immune/gut  issues these kids coincedentally have and how yrs. ago a doctor who was studying Autistic kids made note of this but never openly publised his findings.
How it is being adressed now when they are young and how they have seen improvements.
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Look at some of those countries immunizations schedule and see how many they are given before young adulthood compared to the immunizations schedule in the US. You will clearly see our children recieve alot more.

I just have to say there are some meany bo beanies on this forum. Its to bad people cant discuss things without criticism or judgement.


Cant we all just get along?
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Hi, you asked a few posts ago about what diseases someone had...
I have a friend who  was vaccinated... She now has hypothyriodism, Rheumatiod arthritis, Asthma, hayfever allergies,...the list goes on... And I do believe "Sids" is caused by vaccs. Just my opinion.
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I can believe it.
If you ever see any autistic children alot of them have dark circles under their eyes. Alot of times when people have dark cirlces under their eyes this is due to allergies. Alot of these kid have food allergies as well as the other diseases mentioned...thyroid, chrons etc.

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