ferberizing

Hi.  i am looking for opinions about ferberizing. mostly what is an appropriate age? i think dr. ferber says 6 months. we tried it with our 4 month old and i could not bear it. he is too young and to think of him crying all alone in the dark is very upsetting!!! he will go to sleep by himself for naps all day long but not at night. so we tried keeping the light on and it worked.  anyway it is a pretty contraversial sleep method and i am on the fence about. i feel that it is our job to help him have healthy sleep habits     ( sleeping on his own, self-soothing, falling back to sleep in the middle of the night, etc). but i also really believe it is important for him to know that we will always be there for him and that he has plenty of time to learn healthy sleeping habits. as he gets older i dont want bedtime to be an issue so i would like to make the right decision about it early on. it is so annoying to hear older moms or mils who were able to put their babies to sleep on their tummies(where they are more secure and comfy) wonder why we have such sleep problems today for babies. sorry this is so long i am just looking for opinions. thanks.

[Me2mommy2b]

Hi, I also have a 4 mos old and sleep is such a huge issue for us.  DD will also fall asleep for her naps on her own but not at night.  She will scream her lungs out and we do keep the lights on so unfortunately, we have not found our answer.  What's ferberizing, anyway?  What does he teach you?  For two nights in a row, she fell asleep after crying a little.  Tonight, I'm alone (DH out of town) so I waited an hour, then couldn't bare anymore and put her on the swing so now she's falling asleep there.  I don't want to create the habit of her falling asleep there b/c it's not healhty.  I can't wait for her to be able to sleep on her own with no problem.

[amy524]

We did the cry it out method when Sarah was 5 months old.  It worked great for us!  We sort of did our own "adaptation" to the Ferber method though.  My DD would cry HARDER when we'd go try to sooth her after the 'alloted' time so one night I was feeling really brave and just let her cry until she fell asleep on her own.  After an hour and a half of crying she finally fell asleep and I'm NOT exaggerating when I saw that in the 4 months since we did it, I can count on one hand the number of times that she's cried herself to sleep.

I guess I should preface that by saying that she was falling asleep like a perfect angel at daycare without any problems so I KNEW she was capable...

Whatever you decide, good luck!  I know the desire to want to start good habits early and I think you're on the right track!

[fitzy11]

me either! i am waiting for the day to come. "ferberizing" became a term b/c of dr. richard ferber. he wrote a sleep solution book ( i am not sure of the name of the book). anyway his method is to let babies 6months and up cry it out while parents go in in intervals of 3-5 minutes or so but don't pick up baby. you increase the time by so many minutes each time. he says each night gets better and better and within 4-7 nights your baby goes to sleep without crying. it is very hard to listen to your baby cry though!!!

[Me2mommy2b]

It can get unbareble at times to hear her cry.  She knows it too and she cries harder when she sees me.  I have to be strong for her own good though.

[amy524]

Another thing...letting her cry it out that one night was the one of the HARDEST things I've ever had to do as a mom but I kept telling myself "If I go rescue her after x number of minutes then she'll know she only has to cry that long before I'll get her".  I kept myself busy trying everything in my power not to get her.  Talking on the phone, playing on the internet...It was NOT easy but the end result was WELL WORTH IT!

[Me2mommy2b]

Hi, Amy.  How were you sure that Sarah was ok to start teaching her to fall asleep on her own in terms of her reflux.  Sometimes hubbie and I are wondering if she's screaming b/c of her reflux.  She's on meds now (prevacid solutabs) but she still spits up and now she turns on her tummy in the crib in no time and while on her tummy, can spit up easily and get it all over herself so I have to go in and check on her every 5 minutes or so.

[fitzy11]

Congrats for sticking it out! So after the night of letting her cry herself to sleep without going in did she cry anymore? We did it for a few nights (we would go in though) and the second night was better than the first but the 3rd was NOT! so when the 4th night came and he started crying i emotionally couldn tgo through another night like the one before. i felt that if it wasnt getting better each night than what was the point?

[Me2mommy2b]

lol..oh my G-d, you're describing exactly my situation!! The second night was better than the first but then the third was a nightmare so the 4th (which is today) I let her fall asleep on the swing which I personally think set us back.  I just put her in her crib and guess what??  She's up again as I"m typing this.  UGH!

[fitzy11]

that is so funny because my ds is up now too smiling at me as i type also. he went down at 9pm by himself b/c we kept the light on. and he woke up at 10:15. i fed him, put him back down in his crib but he cried and it was obvious he was not going to go to sleep again w/o crying so i took him out. i wont engage him too much at this hour, he is just sitting in his vibrating chair and every time i look at him he smiles. Every night  my husband and i say "maybe this is the night.maybe he'll sleep for 6 hours straight." he has done that but only in the very early am hours.

[Trialanderror]

If Ferberizing to most parents means to let the infant cry for more than a few minutes, I do not agree with that method. The child may fall asleep eventually after an hour of crying out of exhaustion. All baby learns is that communication is useless if there is no response. What works pretty well, though, is to not run in at the first cry but listen if the crying will turn into
some kind of mumbling while baby is dozing off. That whole falling asleep phase takes max 20 minutes and should only be interrupted if the crying gets louder after the first 5 minutes. If the crying does get more intense, I would always provide some reassurance by patting the baby`s back or calmly talking to him or humming a song. You can gradually withdraw yourself after a week of doing so and maybe only talk or sing in front of your baby`s door for re-assurance that you are still there. With this they learn independence based on trust. It seems okay to me to start this milder approach from about 4 months on. I am not sure if this is what Dr. Ferber initially intended to say, but I know for sure that modern interpretation is based on hours of crying. It had already been practiced in my generation and I can only say I remember my childhood as cheerful with my peers but very withdrawn from my parents.

[fitzy11]

do you believe being withdrawn from your parents is a result of them letting you cry it out? That is one of my concerns. I dont want any approach we take to change who he will become.

[Trialanderror]

It seems far-fetched - but I do believe there is a relation if the "desertion" of the baby is taken to extremes. Back then it was also recommended to not feed newborns more often than once every 4 hours during the night no matter how hard they cry and after they have been fed, to put them down right away. No cuddles, no talk. That may have contributed, too. It was the anti-attachment parenting in the sixties. Studies have been done how this can break a baby`s heart but I would not know where to find those reports. With my son I may have been biased by the book "The Baby Whisperer" but it worked like a charm. Its whole idea is based on respecting the baby`s only way of communication which is initially crying. If you respond to it in a timely manner, they eventually do not even cry because they just know you are there for them. It does not require taking them into the family bed at all but just responsiveness in general. Out of this respect principle I would not go with the Ferber method. It may be true that certain sleep habits are formed some time between month 4 and 6 and harder to break thereafter but it is not that you can "spoil" a baby during his first year just by giving him more attention, really!

[girlybuff]

Dr. Ferber has since changes some of the views his earlier book portrayed.  The revisions in the new book are many but here are some key points:

What's new in the revised version of the book?
When the 2006 edition of Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems came out, it was rumored that Ferber had reversed his earlier approach, but that simply isn't true. The new book reiterates a lot of what Ferber wrote in the earlier volume, with some important clarifications and additions:

[amy524]

Sarah cried so hard that first night and after that it was a breeze.  She would fuss a little and talk to herself but after no more than 5 minutes of trying to settle in, she'd be asleep.  Now that she's a little older (9 months), it takes her up to 30 minutes to fall asleep (NOT CRYING)...she just wants to play in her crib!  

Because we were so lucky after that first loooooooong night, I don't have any experience on what happens on day 2, 3, etc...The best advice I can give is to BE CONSISTENT in whatever you decide to do.  It really helps them to develop a routine.  

I would NOT worry about causing resentment for letting them cry themselves to sleep.  As long as you are nurturing and loving and caring the other 97% of the day, there won't be any long lasting effects.  Of course that is just my opinion though.

Good luck!

[Me2mommy2b]

Hi, Amy.  This thought just entered my mind.  Should I get her a wedge for the bed?  Maybe she's uncomfortable b/c of her reflux?  I'm trying to find something that will help us train her.  I know that she's only 4 months but I figured if we do not train her now, later it'll only get more difficult.  I've started (since last night) putting her in her swing and then when she's drowsy, transfering her to the crib.  I would hate for her to get used to falling asleep this way.  My sister did this with her DD till she was 1 year old and then it took them a whole week to break the habit and it was tough on all of them.  Her DD still doesn't have good sleeping habits :(:(:(

[Me2mommy2b]

Thanks!;-)

[milkmommy]

i feel so sad for the babies that get left to cry. pick your baby up when he/she cries. i suspect mr ferber's mothers didn't pick him up and look how loving he turned out to be.

read The Family Bed by Tine Thevian before you decide to listen to one word from mr(let you tiny infant cry) ferber.

[mommamia8]

I started the crying out with our DS at 10 months and although it was hard for us at the beginning hearing him cry it totally worked for us after 3 days.  The key is to be really consistent.  We did the same routine for naps as well as nightime so back then he was still doing 3naps/day.  That meant he had 3x during the day where he learned how to fall asleep by himself.  By day 3 he was hardly crying when we set him down for naps and nightime.  Yes it is hardest the 2nd day and the 3rd there were times of hard crying as well.  For us it worked great and I credit the crying out for his great sleep habits.  He is a wonderful, well behaved little boy and by no means shows resentment to us at all.  He shows love and affection and is caring to his friends.  He is well rested and I credit that to his great behavior.  I think it is definately a family choice. We would do it again for our next child.  I think when everyone in the family is well rested everyone is a lot happier.

[Mozartcowgirl]

I have never let any of my children cry it out.. for a few minutes.. sure. but not crying for longer than that.. my oldest is now almost 17.. and my youngest is almsot 6.. I have 6 children... ( one of which has passed away) and I am currently 31-32 weeks pregnant.. they ALL have great sleeping habits .. I simply reassured them.. they went from my bed.. to their own bed at around age 1 to 1 and a half.. in my opinion.. i think its just cruelto let babies so young cry it out.... but.. thats really only an opinion.. what many work for some.. may not work for others.. to each his own i suppose!! good luck with whatever method you try!!

[girlybuff]

I am certainly no expert and this is only my OPINION but I want to quote from the book (backed by Dr. Sears) called "The No-Cry Sleep Solution":

"He awakes in a mindless terror of the silence, the motionless. He screams. He is afire from head to foot, with want, with desire, with intolerable impatience. He gasps for breath and screams until his head if filled and throbbing with the sound. He screams until his chest aches, his throat is sore. He can bear the pain no more and his sobs weaken and subside. He listens. He opens and closes his fists. He rolls his head from side to side. NOTHING HELPS. It is unbearable. He begins to cry again, but it is too much for his strained throat; he soon stops. He waves his hands and kicks his feet. He stops, able to suffer, unable to think, unable to hope. He listens. He falls asleep again."

Babies have one way of communicating that they need you, and that is to cry. If we don't go to them when they need us, we are only teaching them that they can't count onus at an early age and that stays with them forever. They do not have the thought process that we have. They have an overwhelming need throughout their whole body to have comfort and our job as parents is to give them that comfort. I know how much my head hurts after a hard cry so I cannot imagine how it feels for an infant.
A good night's sleep isn't worth it to me to put my child through this because I can't figure out a better way to get her to sleep through the night. There HAS to be a better way.

[amy524]

Marianna - Sarah was already falling asleep wonderfully at daycare so that's why I was confident in transitioning her to do it at home as well.  The best thing I can suggest for Ariella is to try a little Mylanta when you think her crying is from reflux.  With Sarah, the mylanta helps almost immediately if that was the cause and then I know.  It's a good "test".  Let me know what you figure out.  

[girlybuff]

And again this is just MHO and I know I have said it before BUT a child of that age has not the capacity to feed himself, change himself or take care of any of his own physical needs, why on Earth should he be expected to be able to comfort himself?  Babies need nurturing and it is not spoiling them to provide it. Spoiling means "ruining" and you cannot ruin a child with love and affection, you ruin him by abandoning him and ignoring his needs.  

[fitzy11]

thank you. i read the quote from the no cry sleep solution book on an earlier post and i was in tears. it helped me realize that i was never really all that comfortable with the cry it out method and i stopped it immediatley. i  totally regret the few nights we tried it. it sounds like you konw your stuff on the subject of sleep. thanks again.

[girlybuff]

I wish you luck.  I don't want to sound like I'm preaching but I truly believe in my heart that it's not a good thing to let a baby, especially an infant, to cry it out.  I have a 5 month old who still sleeps with me and I nurse.  Last night she was an absolute monster and I cried and pleaded with her to sleep and she laughed at me.  Imagine that, she laughed at me.  I would have done almost ANYTHING to get this child to sleep but I got through it.
I am gearing up to putting her into her own bed soon, and I'm not looking forward to it but I know it has to be done.  I am prepared for MANY sleepless nights.  However, I am lucky enough to not have to get up for work at an office, because we all know this job is 24/7.
Does this make ma the best mother?  NO.  Does this make me an expert, NO, BUT if i can stop parents from thinking that it doesn't do any damage or stop them from thinking that it has no ill effects when they let their infant cry it out, then I did a good thing.
I know people may disagree and get mad at me but it's just my opinion and I did do a lot of research on it.
I know each child is different and parents need to find what works for them so i wish you luck and I hope you can find a happy medium.

[Trialanderror]

I am so glad you quoted the books. They nicely support what I came to believe naturally, just by watching my son from birth on. There is no such thing that babies come out and want to manipulate their parents right from early infancy on. And if it is just about the parents getting enough sleep, what a sad reason it would be to let the baby feel so deserted. I slept in my son`s room because there was no other choice. He honestly never cried because I tuned into his little signals. Usually it was sounds he made that meant either "I am hungry" or "Are you still there?" For the latter, it was good enough for me to mumble something and he would go back to sleep. Having developed such a close communication system early on really helped. From about 9 months old he was more than happy to be in his own room and has fallen asleep independently ever since. He was an early talker because he had joy in expressing himself. And we still have a very special bond 4 years later. As the Dr. Sears books say, it is only that type of attachment that builds the foundation for disciplining them later on based on love and understanding. So, everyone, for the couple of nights of more sleep you may be getting in the beginning with  Ferber, you might end up with many more sleepless nights when they are preschoolers. Just my opinion.