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formula question

ok, i am trying to breast feed all i can. but i dont seem to get my baby full enough. so i am doing formula as well. i am giving him similac advance with iron.  for my daughter, i switched her to soy based. she became less gassy . but i did it when she was six months old. now my son is 12 days old. i wanna know can i switch him to soy based already? he is sooo gasy and for some reason, today he has diharrea real bad. but its sunday and i cant call the doctor til tomorrow. any idea why he would have that problem? and can i switch him now? he isnt lactose or anything. i know that cause hes been fine on this formula all this time . just been gassy. and i like soy better so i really wanna switch him to it. i just dont know if its okay to switch at such an early stage .
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513629_tn?1218147553
The baby is being breast fed and so he will have loose stools because breast milk is a natural laxative. Just make sure to put diaper cream with each change so his bottom doesnt get raw. If you just started the iron formula, it will take a little bit for the iron to kick in and help with the loose stools. You can alternate each feeding with one of breast milk and the other formula. Depending what you eat can cause the baby gas too. And some formulas do that to. Try milacon drops. You may want to discuss formula switching with your doctor first. It sometimes takes going through a couple of different  types before finding the right one. But honestly, you can just stick to alternating. Think  back and see if you ate something gassy withing the last couple of days. Take care, I hope  your baby feels bettter. let us know what you decide to do and what your doc says.
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431894_tn?1216659546
When my daughter was a newborn (she's 18 mths now) she was always gassy and i was breastfeeding her and giving her formula too so i took her to her dr and he said it was the combination of both milks and the food i was eating that was possibly giving her gas.  I stopped breastfeeding at almost 7 weeks and she was less gassy so i just gave her milicon in her formula and she was fine..   You may want to ask his ped..  
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189192_tn?1261345228
Breast milk produces gass.  That is how the expell the BMs from their bodies.  Breast milk makes very watery BMs and don't be surprised if he has one with every feeding.  That is normal and not diharrea. As for soy, I don't know. I would wait and ask your dr.  

Best of luck to you.  
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171768_tn?1324233699
i would avoid soy if at all possible. breast milk is best, then milk-based formula, then soy. soy is an acceptable alternative to milk-based when a child is genuinely lactose intolerant, has an allergy, etc... even nestle's formula website states
"When to choose a soy-based formula
Your doctor might recommend a soy-based formula if:

Your baby has hereditary or temporary lactase deficiency, which makes processing milk sugars difficult.
Your baby is allergic to cow's milk.
You want a vegetarian-based diet for your full-term baby."

newborns are very gassy. someone just posted about this recently, but i don't remember who. dd farted and grunted all day and night for the first 2 months. my lactation consultant said it was normal for a newborn and would most likely continue until she was about 2 months old. at that point, their digestive tracts mature a bit and they become less gassy. she was right- right around 2 months the gassiness faded away. it's possible that kenadismommy's baby, at 7 weeks, outgrew the phase and it wasn't just the breast milk.

when i was researching dd's gassiness, i came across a site that explained it very well. here's an excerpt:
"Why does infant gas cause pains and discomfort?
Normally, gas is not a problem and causes no pain or discomfort because it is quickly and easily pushed through the digestive system. However, babies are born with a very immature gut. Most experts agree that for the first thirteen weeks of life outside the womb, the newborn digestive system is literally just learning to function. Muscles that support digestion have not developed the proper rhythm for moving food efficiently thought the digestive tract. Furthermore, newborns lack the benevolent bacterial flora (probiotics) that develop over time to aid digestion.

Gas has buoyancy and gas pockets can become trapped in the upper and lower intestines. The gas acts like a cork, impeding or halting the flow of gastric juices and built-up pressure causes painful bloating and swelling of the abdomen. Baby’s immature digestive system is unable to cope effectively. When gas pockets form in the stomach, this can cause the stomach to distend but is also the main cause of hiccups."
(from http://www.coliccalm.com/baby_infant_newborn_articles/gas_problems_treatment.htm  note- the explanation comes from a site advocating a product- some form of gripe water. however, their explanation of the gas matched what i was told)
as for diarrea (diarrhea)- dd had "diarrea (diarrhea)" the first 8 months of her life. babies on breast milk simply have very soft stools. honestly, i would take that any day over the constipation that some parents describe.
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Avatar_f_tn
i fed my daughter soy formula and couldnt be happier. but that was after she was six months. now i want to change my sons formula to soy for sure too. my only question now is can i breast feed and use soy formula too? or they dont mix right?
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93532_tn?1349374050
Why do you need to add soy?
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Avatar_f_tn
he is having a very hard time with regular formula. he is throwing up alot and is very gassy.  and since i put my daughter on it at six months, she was fine and i loved it. i want to do the same with him. even though he is mostly breast feeding, some times in the day, i do give formula when i run out. cause my milk isnt constant for some reason. i am doing everything like pumping and stuff. anyway, and my doctor has told me that soy is better than regular milk anyway. i dont know if i agree , but i think it makes them feel better. i just wanna know is it okay to give the baby both breast milk and soy? i wanna cut the regular formula out. i wanna switch it with soy. he is 12 days old.
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Avatar_f_tn
talk to your dr before you start swiching his formula around.  if you are supplementing you have to know it could cut back on  your milk production.  i produce lots of milk, but cant pump more than an ounce or so at a sitting so dont go by pumping.  i say get your milk pumped and feed that to him.  its the only thing that makes sense at this point with his upset tummy and you are pumping anyway right?
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Avatar_f_tn
yeah, i just spent some time researching and i know researching is something i shouldnt do online cause of my past "scares". but i came across some scary sites on soy formula. so i am very confused and will continue breastfeeding as i wasnt gonna stop that and i will continue with the regular formula and hope that my breast milk will be more so i dont have to worry about formula at all. and i can talk to my doctor on my sons first check up. thank you ladies for your advice. i am taking them seriously .
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172023_tn?1334675884
Why do you think that your baby was not "full" with only breastmilk?  Newborns who are being breastfed can feed as often as every hour.  Its perfectly normal and desirable for an infant to feed on demand....and that can mean every hour or two for a few weeks.

Don't go switching formulas based on gas.  True vomiting is different from a lot of spitting up.  If your baby is truly vomiting after feeding...he needs to see the doctor right away.
The same for diarrhea.  If the baby really has diarrhea, he needs to be seen.  If he is having typical loose, seedy breastmilk stools (several a day can be normal), nothing needs to be done.
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Avatar_n_tn
If you can I would say to stop formula all together and just BF. I'm wondering why you think you don't have enough? Some babies need to be on the breast almost constantly at first, and it may take some work to get your supply back up after supplementing, but I would say it's worth a try since it will be the best thing for the baby's tummy. Eating oatmeal, mother's milk tea, and pleanty of rest and water help.
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Avatar_f_tn
"dd farted and grunted all day and night for the first 2 months."

For some reason I got tickled with that sentence.  :)  I was surprised to read that from you!!  lol!!

Boosty:
I agree with peekawho.  I would suggest that you try to JUST breastfeed for the time being.  I didn't think Ava was getting enough either but she kept up her weight gain the first month.  I went through alot of emotions during the first month of breastfeeding, but I am THRILLED that I kept up with it.  It was a little time consuming, but my baby always came first.  :)  Like the other ladies said, Ava was gassy at first too... and still is when mommy eats Mexican, but that is normal.  Loose stools are normal as well with breastfed babies.  If he was having wet diapers, and stools, then he was getting enough breastmilk.
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Avatar_f_tn
i would love nothing but to breast feed only. but i know i dont have enough milk because he gets hungry right away after breastfeeding and he can take a whole 2oz bottle right after i breastfeed. and if i dont breast feed, he finishes a whole 2oz bottle . so thats how much he wants to get full. and i know by the way my breast feels. its empty. lol. and when i pump, i dont get more than 3oz from both breasts. i just realized something. i was put on antibiotics in the hospital after surgery because i developed a high fever. they said i can still breastfeed. then when i got home, i had pnemonia (pneumonia) for some reason. they told me to continue the antibiotic. now i am fine. they told me i can continue breastfeeding. i talked to three pediatriticans to make sure. i have had diahrrea excuse the graphic language, since i came home from the hospital. i am guessing its either from antibiotics or some kind of stomache bacteria. so maybe i am transfering through my milk? it makes me not wanna breast feed for a while. i do feed him on demand .. he wants to eat every two hours. even if he drinks a 2oz bottle. anyway, i started him with soy and my doctor told me thats good and i should wait a couple of days and see how he reacts to it.  about his diahrrea, he REALLY has diahhreea. sorry cant spell. its so watery, it can drip out of the diaper and he goes every hour but for some reason only at night and all night long.  he cant lay still. he is constantly looks uncomfortable and starts crying. he sleeps mostly during the day. its intresting how i have a child that i raised and i am proud of and now a newborn, i feel like i know nothing. lol. . different experiences.
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171768_tn?1324233699
about the diarrea (diarrhea)-
in the baby- seriously, that was what dd's poop was like for the first few months. she did it 10-12 times/day. it was crazy.

about yours- for the first few weeks after my c-section, i had incredibly loose stools. (tmi- but i basically wasn't digesting food and could recognize things coming out). but it was only 2 or 3 times a day. my OB said it was due to hormone changes.

but, if it really is diarrea (diarrhea) in you, can cannot pass it along through breast milk. in fact, if you are sick, you pass along antibodies to whatever you have through your milk, making it less likely for him to get it, or if he gets it, it would be milder and he'd get over it quicker.

have you had anyone look at his latch? honestly, your supply sounds very good to me. if he truly isn't getting enough at the breast, he may not be latching properly, or he may have problems sucking. if you are interested in continuing to breastfeed, you may want to see a lactation consultant. she can either put your mind at ease if things are going well, or she can help you figure out the problem if there is one. for example, dd would latch on great and suck for a while. but the LC weighed her before and after a session and we learned that after sucking for 20 minutes, she got less than 1/2 oz. the poor thing had a weak suck and had coordination problems- she didn't have the suck-swallow-breathe pattern down, so she constantly had to pause to catch her breath.

i am a little concerned because it really sounds like you are getting trapped in a pattern where your supply is going to diminish, and breastfeeding may not work out. of course it's up to you to do what's best for you and your family. any one of us can understand the stress and concern that comes with feeding your baby. i just wanted to let you know that if you do want to ultimately be able to nurse, you may want to get some help. Good luck with whatever you decide.  
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270405_tn?1293039221
I agree with tiredbuthappy.  If you really want to be able to breastfeed successfully, then I think you should consult with a lactation consultant.  Your supply does sound good.  Maybe your baby is tongue tied, and can't latch correctly.  Call the hospital that you gave birth at and ask to speak to or be referred to a lactation consultant.  Good luck!
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172023_tn?1334675884
He takes 2 ounces of formula AFTER breastfeeding?  That's a lot of intake, and could be contributing to the diarrhea.

We offer only 1/2 to 1 oz of formula after breastfeeding, until the womans milk comes in (if she wants to supplement, that is).  After its in, usually we do not recommend supplementing at all, if he is peeing and pooping and gaining a little weight.  

It sounds like he might be uncomfortable from a too full tummy.  Babies will still suck to try to relieve tummy pain.  Nurse him very well, every hour or two, and really limit that formula or you will have no supply soon.  

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Avatar_f_tn
i made the mistake of switching between formula and breastmilk with my daughter and i ran out at 2 months. so i understand what youre all saying. thats why, today, i have done no formula. only breastfeeding. and instead of every three hours, i feed him as often as i feel like he wants it. that way, i get more milk come in and if i feed him more times then he will get enough?  he latches on real well actually. in the hospital tehy told me that i have the most perfect nip**** for breastfeeding, lol. but his diahrrea continues. its so bad that it shoots out like water. he has a doctors appointemnt for tomorrow. since i changed him to soy, he has been a bit better and calmer. but hes still fussy. i guess it happens to most babies. the gassy thing. i am trying mylecon. dont know if it will work. i hate seing him in this pain. when youre breasts are smooshy instead of it being hard , does it mean theres no milk inside? i know thats probably a stupid question, but when my breasts are hard and hurt , they start to leak which happens if i dont breast feed for a whole day. and after pumping, they feel very empty.  and what is your opinions on holding your baby as soon as he cries? my daughter didnt cry much and was happy with everything. but this baby is different. he is uncomfortable and sometimes he just cries and when i hold him, hes calm. he wants to be held all the time. it makes it hard for me to do my chores and take care of my three year old. but i still do it. people who come over my house keep telling me to let him cry sometimes so he doesnt get used to me picking him up with every tear. i disagree. what do you guys think?  and i do still wanna know if its okay to breastfeed while on soy.
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171768_tn?1324233699
it's ok to breastfeed while on soy. there are very few cases where breastfeeding isn't OK. i'm glad to hear you're feeding on demand- that's what most doctors recommend these days.

i held dd as needed, but luckily she wasn't too needy. i found it was VERY helpful to wear her in a baby carrier to get chores done. i responded to every need of my daughter, and never let her cry. at 12 months, she is very comfortable, secure, and adjusted. she is neither spoiled nor needy- in fact she is the opposite because she knows that if she truly needs something, i am there for her. despite responding to every cry, she goes to sleep on her own, in her own bed. if she wakes, she can go back down on her own. she can play without me being in her face. don't listen to other people- you do what your heart tells you.

if you go for a whole day without breastfeeding you are jeopardizing your supply. in the beginning you must nurse or pump every 2-3 hours to build up a supply.

smooshy boobs are empty boobs. they feel like deflated balloons :) i always found it felt good to be completely empty.

your poop stories make me smile because dd used to projectile poop. it was so liquidy and gas propelled, it shot several feet in the air. and she often did it while we were changing her :) it got me in the face once, hit the wall another time.
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Avatar_f_tn
ok, i feel much better. thank you all for your advices.
i didnt hold my daughter much. she was a calm baby. now shes three years old. she too is very smart, calm, independent, secure, happy, and polite. i just hope both my kids turn out like that . lol
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Avatar_f_tn
Just use breast milk

Well done for breast feeding and trying so hard to get it right. I know it can be difficult at first..

All a baby needs is breast milk there is no need to add any kind of formula. Just feed when your baby wants it. When you mix breast with formula this will upset the babys belly. I breast fed my son for 14 months and he is extremely healthy and never had any tummy problems. Breast is best and formulas and NOT natural for a baby's belly. If there is no way that someone can breastfeed for exaple the mother is very ill then of course formula is needed.. Your breast will not run out...trust me they go floppy but there is stilll milk in there...

You don't need formula...just feed when your baby needs it, If they cry after a feed entertain them.

Hope not to seem to pushy, this is a subject I feel strongly about. Breast is Best.

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Avatar_f_tn
thnak you ladies. i just dont know why hes so hungry evne after i give him breast milk. and i know now that i have enough to feed him. after a feeding, my breasts get empty and feel empty for a good few hours. thats when i know i have not much to feed him and when i try, hes still hungry.  but when i give him formula, he has 2oz and doesnt wanna eat for at least 3 hours and a half. anyway, i am breastfeeding 60% of the time. i am trying to increase it. its just hard to do it when you think your kid is still hungry. but i know you gotta . every comment here helped me. thank you ladies. his diahhrea is very runny still, but its not as often.
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Avatar_f_tn
How long does he nurse on each breast?  You should let him nurse until he is completely satisfied.  Sometimes it takes Ava twice as long to fill up.  In he mornings it takes her half the time because I am engorged.  You need to demand feed so that your supply will catch up.
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Avatar_f_tn
he stays like 5-10 minutes on each breast. the problem is that he falls asleep when i nurse. and i have to try sooo hard to keep him awake. and at the end, he totally is asleep and wants nothing to do with the feeding. so i think thats when hes done. he takes it out of his mouth while asleep and wont let me put back in his mouth to continue. i do the whole feeding while he is asleep. he drinks well the first 4 minutes of each breast. so i think he gets enough.
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250155_tn?1366738732
that the exact same thing that my ds was doing the first 2 weeks we were home.  i even called the ped like 3 times and posted questions on here about it a couple times, too.  he would eat for only a couple mins and only at one breast then fall asleep.  i would let him sleep for a little bit then i would wake him up myself and offer the next breast.  even though i thought he hadn't been getting enough milk from me (i was also worried about my supply) at his 2 week check up he had already gained 14 oz.  and now at his 1 month visit he had gained almost 2lbs on top of that!!!  i couldn't believe it...  you just gotta keep w/ it and trust yourself that its working!  
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172023_tn?1334675884
At first, they do fall asleep often like that.  You can try waking him between breasts by changing a diaper or washing his face or something similar.  

But often for the first few weeks...they'll nurse just like that.  5-10 min, sleep for an hour, 5-10 min, sleep for another hour (or less), and so on.  Eventually, if you don't offer formula, they'll straighten out on their own and go for longer periods of time.  What you are describing is perfectly normal breastfeeding behavior, and NOT a sign of "not being full".

There is no reason to make him go for 3 to 4 hours between feedings by supplementing him with formula.  As another poster pointed out, it can upset his tummy.  Then it leads to confusion about "should I change formula".  And it will lessen your supply.  

You're doing well, and it can be frustrating to constantly be breastfeeding...but that's what its all about.  No, you may not sleep more than 45 minute bits here and there for the first month.  Eventually things will straighten out if you keep at it.  Good luck!

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Avatar_f_tn
That is what Ava did as well.  I usually stripped her down to a onesie, then as Peekawho said I used a wet cloth to wake her.  This is normal.  Ava of course is my first experience, and it was TOUGH at first.  She had joundice so she slept a little more than most newborns, and I was told by Andi to wake her up at night if she didn't wake on her own to feed her atleast every two hours.  I think that 3 to 4 hours is a long stretch.  Ava is sitll not quite at three hours and she is almost 3 months old.  

I think it is GREAT that you are breastfeeding.  I am very proud of you for that!  When I look at Ava's little chunky legs and cheeks I get tickled to pieces that she has prospered soo much from ME.  And as others have said, just because you nennies feel "flat" does not mean that you do not have milk in them.  I used to get nervous about that too, but you can clearly see when you squeeze them that there is still milk in them.  Even if you pump and the pump is not getting much out, the baby can get ALOT more than that pump can.  :) I learned that too.  I pump every so often so that her Daddy can feed her.

Keep at it girl!  Breastfeeding soo rewarding for both mother, and baby.
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Avatar_f_tn
i also feel that i am feeding him enough with breastfeedding. i can hear him swallowing the milk . he drinks really well from me. he does fall asleep on and off, but he drinks. by the time, i switch him to the next breast, he is comnpletely sleep and wants nothing to do with it. i will try all the above to keep him awake. he usually screams for feeding again in like thirty minutes so thats why i feel like i am not giving him enough. and by the next feeding, my breast is smooshy and feels empty and when i try to feed him, he doesnt suck any milk out and gets frustrated. thats why i go to formula. i still do formula like three feedings a day. i am trying to cut down on it. its like an addiction. lol. i made this mistake with my daughter. so i was only able to breast feed for two months with her. so i know i am doing tghe same thing again. so i am trying. but its hard when you think your child is hungry and you dont have anythinhg to give him. but i guess i am wrong. you have more than you think inside. lol. my doctor said dont worry , at this age, the baby wont starve.   for my daughter, the hospital told me to feed her both formula and breastfeed at first every four hours. my daughter was fine with that. she gained lots of weight too. and her time stayed with four hours. sometimes i had to even wake her up at four hours to feed her. and pediatricians said that shes fine cuase shes in the high precentage in weight for her age. but this baby is different as they all are. i feed him anytime he wants to eat cause i am trying to do the breastfeeding only thing. i did notice that the more i put him to my breast even if hes not hungry, i get more milk then the day before. i let him to my breast even if he doesnt want to eat. he doesnt mind it and the sucking helps me. is that ok? sometimes i do it just to put him to sleep. lol. like at 3AM when he refuses to sleep.
i also noticed that sometimes when my breasts are feeling empty and are smooshy, when i put him to the breast, my breasts start to have this sharp pain in them and then i feel like milk comes in cause he starts sucking and nothing, then after the pain, he stars swallowing . isnt that strange ? i wish we didnt have the option of formula at times. lol.
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Avatar_f_tn
oh, and i added more photos.
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171768_tn?1324233699
from what i understand, the comfort suckling will really help build your supply. and do whatever you can to get him to sleep :) you need it too!

my LC told me that the body is constantly making milk, so even if you are "empty" you are still producing, which is why he can get some when you are empty. i have heard that some people do feel a pain when they let-down, which may be what you are describing.
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250155_tn?1366738732
i feel the pain when my milk lets down every time!  ds ***** for a couple seconds and then the milk lets down and then he starts drinking also.  
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Avatar_f_tn
well, it is now 11:30 pm and the last time i used formula was this morning at around 4am. so its been a long time. but i am breastfeeding sometimes every thirty minutes cause at times the feedings only last like 5-7 minutes total.
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250155_tn?1366738732
that's ok...  ds was doing that too!  most of the time at the beginning i was lucky to get 10 minutes total out of a breastfeeding sesion.  but now he's doing great!
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Avatar_m_tn
i know this comes a bit late but be careful with soy. it contains phytoestrogens and it's the last thing you wanna feed a boy with. there are research that holds soy responsible for early puberty, hormonal imbalance and so on. http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/index.html
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