ot- but i need advice!!! and help. (sorry it's a bit long...)

well as some of you know my brother got his 17 yr old g/f pregnant. well these past 13 or 14 weeks have been so drama filled with these 2 it is RIDICULOUS!!! well my brother is a selfish, irresponsible boy. She is...well she's manipulative. he parties...a lot. he's drunk almost every night (no he's not 21..my mom and i both tell him he needs to knock it off but...of course he never listens). well...they broke up. yes he's trying to get back together with her but she won't. then she wants to get back together and he doesn't. and back and forth. well she says if they don't get back together she's giving the baby up for adoption. he says, fine i can't take care of it anyway. which he can't. he refuses to get a job, he won't get a place of his own and expects everything to be handed to him. he actually called my mom and told her to get him money so he can get a car. when she said no he began calling her every name under the sun. saying she's a bad mom and gave me everything. (which she didn't. I bought my car. she didn't even co sign for me.) he brought up that i had a big graduation party and she paid for it all (she didn't my DAD threw me my graduation party. we have different dads...) so then he demand that she co sign so he can get a loan. she said no. the name calling began again (she just took out a loan for herself to get caught up on bills. she can't afford to co sign for him.) he says she pays for hubby and i to live. buys the kids everything they have. (hubby and i take care of ourselves and our children. NOBODY helps us.  and yes she does spoil the kids...but she CHOOSES to. we don't tell her to buy anything. do we tell her not to? no. she has even told us she loves buying the kids stuff...what grandparent doesn't love spoiling their grandchildren?)

so now here's where i need advice and help. IF they do continue being the selfish ignorant jerks they are and DO put my niece/nephew up for adoption i want to adopt him/her. hubby though...does not. i can understand yes we are struggling BUT we have the room!!!! my mom already said she'd help with the baby. (as far as buying another crib and what not) i really don't want to let my niece or nephew being adopted. i know selfish but...s/he is family. family doesn't let family go. (unless family is an idiot...like my brother) so brother says no. he'd feel to guilty seeing the baby and knowing it's his and the baby knowing he is the dad. i told him that would not happen. if we would adopt the baby chad (my brother) would be uncle chad. the baby would NOT KNOW he is the father. as far as the baby would be concerned s/he would ONLY KNOW greg and i as daddy and mommy. s/he would never ever know chad and stephanie are his/her actual biological parents.

is that too harsh? i want the baby to have a good life. which greg and i can provide. to have a stable, loving home. which greg and i can provide. a structured home. with brothers and a NORMAL life. which greg and i can provide. i want another baby...i really really do. i know greg does as well. we're just so scared of having twins again (i have 75-80% chance of getting pregnant again...we can't handle another set of twins. lol)

i don't know what to do. these 2 are just not ready to be parents. they have no plan. he has no job, no way to support either of them and she has a minimum wage job working in a fast food joint. how is that supposed to take care of a baby????? they are already using this baby to get what they want from people...which is SO SO SO wrong! this is a BABY not a leverage tool!!! it's a little human being. a person. a living breathing life!!! i'm so frustrated about all of this i just cry. (i'm super hormonal right now...)

[AHP84]

Well, as much as I hate to be a downer about this in my advice (which you don't have to take), I would say no, don't adopt their baby. I think the situation would be so much better for the baby and your entire family if, should they put the baby up for adoption, that it goes to a different family--hopefully an open adoption can be arranged so your family can still be somewhat involved.
I just think that with as big as the issues are now with your brother and his gf, and between your brother and your mom, and your brother and you...if you were to adopt the child, it would NEVER turn out so easy as you are "mommy," Greg is "daddy," and the bio parents are "aunt and uncle." Give it time, info is going to "slip," whether it be in spite, by mistake, or some crazy drama. I'd be willing to bet that by the time that child is three years old, it will know on some level that Chad is "daddy," but not fully comprehend the depth of that reality, and it'll be confusing for the child as s/he grows up and has to see this drama unfold year after year, because it will. And who's to say that the bio mother won't drop off the face of the earth or become the nightmare of everyone's life because she feels the need to somehow fight for her maternal rights back?
Not to mention, your marriage with Greg is at a crossroads right now. I saw your latest entry in your journal that you and he talked. Again. And that he's agreed to get counseling for himself and do marriage counseling with you as soon as your insurance issues go through. Again.
Your words.
My thoughts on your marital issues here are, how many more "agains" are you willing to give? You keep extending his time to get his act together, but then turn around and make excuses for his behavior too, due to his PTSD, but that *someday* he agrees to get help, and that he does have his "good days" and "nice moments." Yet you are going through emotional and verbal abuse, and his potential for physical abuse is getting riskier with each passing month according to the behavior he displays that you post about every few months.
I think all these family issues combined are not the healthiest of environments in anyone's care within the next year. I think the baby could be better off in a home with a family that will have parents who are financially stable, emotionally mature, and have healthy extended family interactions, and where the mother and father have an emotionally healthy marriage that is not at a borderline breaking point due to mood disorders that are going untreated and emotional/verbal abuse going on week after week.

Just my thoughts and advice, but as I mentioned first, you don't have to take it. I do understand that you want to keep your family together and I admire that and respect that, and if I were you, I'd also be more than willing to adopt your brother's child, knowing you and your husband could probably do a better job as parents than they could. But at the same time, I think the drama in all of your lives is just too much to consider this life-changing course of action right now on behalf of the child.

[heatherlynn22]

you're right. i just hate to see someone that is my blood be "tossed away" which i know adoption is not like that. it just feels like that's what they're doing. they're not getting what they want so the baby is expendable. i know greg and i have our issues but i'm making him stick to the therapy this time. so as soon as our insurance is in (we have to wait for our cards and confirmation) i'm making the appointments.

i just....feel so so bad for this baby.

[AHP84]

It is a shame as I see exactly what you're saying about them treating the baby like it's expendable. I can relate to how you're feeling and I feel terrible that your family is going through this, especially a baby about to be involved, and I don't even personally know your family.
But, you never know...things may unexpectedly work out somehow to everyone's benefit that can keep the baby with your family. I personally am really routing for you and Greg, especially Greg getting into counseling to deal with his PTSD and find the healing he needs. I have been through a lot of issues in my past involving emotional/verbal abuse and issues of neglect, so I hate to see anyone go through it. I am thankful that I found my way of healing and moving on with my life, and I know there are so many ways that can happen for people. It's never just as simple as pack up and leave, or get help and expect immediate results. It takes time, but it is always possible, and for you and your husband, I am really hopeful for you two getting back on track and having a wonderful future together. :-)
As for the baby between your brother and his gf, I have a strong feeling that no matter what happens, that baby will be loved and looked after and taken care of by someone who is more than capable. I really hope s/he can stay a part of your family; and honestly, I'm sure that'll be the case. I don't think very many people are strong enough to go through with adoption, no matter how bad their situation may seem. And maybe once the baby is born, that'll be just what these kids need in their lives...that physical evidence and responsibility...to get their acts together. Babies sometimes have a way of doing that. I hope this can be the case for your brother and his gf.

[heatherlynn22]

thanks ahp. i really do hope they get their acts together. i would LOVE to see them grow up and be the mature adults they were in such a hurry to be and take responsibility for the baby.

[AnnieBrooke]

I agree that the secret would NOT keep, and also that an adoption out of the family is cleaner for all concerned, and a lot fairer to the child as well.  

You can't control your brother and his girlfriend, they will come up with all kinds of stuff to keep everyone on the hook all the time and you will never, ever be able to relax if you are trying to keep the secret.  

You probably won't even be able to relax if the secret is not kept -- they will always be saying or doing some darn thing that makes you have to be vigilant and explain things to the child.  If you and your husband are going through tough times, it's even going to be more tense.  What kind of complicated brew is this to toss a little kid into?  Lots of wonderful people out there are DYING to adopt a healthy baby.  

If anyone in a similar situation were to ask me, I'd suggest that they should go for a closed adoption.  (This would be in order to keep the birth parents from getting some harebrained idea and showing up in the kid's life later, though of course one wouldn't tell them that.)  

You say "my blood" about the baby.  1. Are you sure it's your brother's?   2.  Do you really want to raise a child who has such an idiot for a genetic father?  3. Are you trying to patch up other emotional needs in your life by filling it in with an idealized notion of a new baby?

[heatherlynn22]

annie....to answer question 1. i'm not sure what he thinks. i know she says that she was faithful and loyal he doubts it b/c she has male friends. i want to support my brother but she's actually called me crying b/c of all the accusations he throws at her when he's drunk.

2. i didn't think about if the child would be a complete idiot like him. i just assumed it was from him living with his moronic father. (chad was not as big of an idiot when he lived with our mother)
3. no, dh and i have been wanting another baby for a few months now but are really scared that if we do try it'll be twins again. one set is plenty. lol.

i honestly didn't think about what if they try something to get the baby back. but if it's a few months after they would sign the papers...they couldn't legally do that..could they? if worse would come to worse, for the sake of the baby i would cut of communication with them. i know it's mean but i want that baby to have as normal a life as possible.

they are just breaking my heart with all of this.

[AnnieBrooke]

When I said that 'even if the secret was out, they would always be saying or doing some darn thing that makes you have to be vigilant and explain things to the child,' I meant that because you are right there in the family they would always be at risk of saying something to the child that indicates that they are the "real" parents, or like that.  Or your mom would make some remark, or someone would have an attitude, and the child would have questions.  

Unless you had a restraining order, you would not be able to keep them away.  Do you really want to let yourself and the child and your husband in for that for 18 or 21 years?  I didn't think they would try to get the baby back (unless one or the other of them just decided to grab the child) but just that it would be a tense situation all the time for years.  

It's not like you are throwing the baby to the wilds if you are not the one who adopts.  There are so few babies available that the birth mom can pretty much pick and choose among some pretty neat parent candidates.  When I was looking into adopting, I read some of the websites of prospective parents.  They all look happy and solid, financially stable or affluent, they're psychologically screened (with home study in place), and have everything one would hope for in a parent.  It sounds like it would be worse for the baby if the birth parents try to suck it up and keep the baby, than if going to a couple like that.  So please don't torture yourself that if you don't adopt it the baby will go to h'll, because some of those placements frankly look heavenly.

[heatherlynn22]

thanks annie...you've help put my mind at ease if we don't adopt the baby. my mom is actually all for it. she really doesn't think that these 2 should be parents. she even warned my brother when he first started dating her to make sure he used condoms. but chad doesn't listen. he knows all. birth control never fails...

*sigh* i just hope they make the best decision for the baby.

[JoyRenee]

I've known children who were adopted by family members and there was never any confusion or problems. My brother had a daughter when he was a teenager in high school. His girlfriend ended up having four children with three different men. So when my niece turned 6 years old she gave her up for adoption and kept her other three children because my brother was married to some psycho woman at the time who despised the fact he had a daughter.

My aunt (my mom's sister) ended up adopting her. She was never able to have her own children.

My niece (yes, I still call her my niece and NOT my cousin) just graduated high school with honors and is in a nationally acclaimed instrumental band. She is incredibly intelligent and she knows exactly who her birth parents are and she keeps in contact with them all the time (phone calls, visits, etc.).

It is doable. If they give the baby up for adoption you have every right to file for custody of this child. I can completely understand wanting to keep them in your family. I don't know what I would've done if someone other than family ended up adopting my 6-year-old niece.

P.S. All the issues my brother and his high school girlfriend had had were cleared up. They are different people than they were when they were young, selfish and immature. And they are grateful to have their birth daughter in their lives despite all that happened.

[JoyRenee]

*okay she wasn't given up for adoption because my brother was married to a psycho woman. I worded that wrong. I meant he didn't take her because of who he was married to at the time. She manipulated him, they had no money, etc. and it broke him to pieces not to take his daughter and to sign his rights away. Just wanted to clarify that.

[sexybetty2004]

Go for it, take that baby for one there is alot of sickos in this world and you dont want the baby jumping from foster home to foster home.. Take the baby and keep him or her in the family thats the safest way out. My brother did the same thing and we took the baby away from them both, matter of fact they handed her over. So the best thing to do is keep her.Its better she is with you than out there with some sicko or dead.

[AnnieBrooke]

If the baby is put straight up for adoption, it will not be bounced from foster home to foster home.  Foster care is not adoption.  People are very well screened by adoption agencies, they have home studies, and like I said, the birth parents can pretty much pick and choose from some very attractive candidates.  Have you dealt with an adoption agency?  They are very picky -- for example, just if the parent is a little older, they will tell them they have little chance because there are so few hwb's available as infants.  (Hwb is the shorthand for "healthy white baby," I told the original poster what I did because I think she is white.  There are different demands for other babies.  I know this sounds racist but it is a reflection of supply and demand of babies and of adopting parents in the U.S.  In other countries there are different supply/demand dynamics.)  One problem in this country is that many times a young woman putting up a baby for adoption has drug issues.  It doesn't sound like the girl in this case has any problems like that!  So the baby will be very wanted, and at least in the private-adoption realm, you should see the listings of available parents-wannabes.  It is not scary, it is not "some sicko."  In fact, it's sad, all these nice- sounding people who just want to adopt an infant that looks plausibly like it might be theirs, and you know they may never get there.  

[Victoria01]

I think this situation requires some deep thought and a lot of caution, no matter which way you choose to go. There are pros and cons to either keeping the baby or putting it up for adoption, but the most important thing is to do what's best for the baby, no matter who else that may hurt, even you. I applaud you for wanting to take care of the baby, but remember, this is not your decision. First they have to decide whether or not to give the child up and they do have a say in who it goes to. It sounds like neither of them are ready to care for an infant, but maybe that will change. You also need to think about any resentment that might grow between your brother and you later on. What happens IF he decides a few years down the road after he grows up that he wants the baby to know who he is? Would you be willing to cut him completely out of your life if it came to that? Also, if you do this and plan to keep it a secret, which the child will eventually find out no matter what, are you going to be able to deal with the resentment from the child because you lied to him/her all these years?

I'm not saying to do it or don't, that is completely up to you, but these were just a few things that came to my mind. Good luck to you and put the baby's well being before anyone else's.

[heatherlynn22]

his g/f doesn't do any drugs. she does smoke cigarettes though. which EVERYBODY (including my brother) has been telling her to stop. she refuses to. "it's her body she can do whatever she d@mn well pleases." her words....even after knowing that the nicotine and what not goes directly to the baby...she just doesn't seem to care about it. but that's beside the point.

they're still "talking" if you want to call it that and trying to decide what to do. she's still saying if he leaves her again whether he wants the baby or not she's putting it up for adoption...which we quickly reminded her she could not do b/c despite the baby growing in her my brother DOES have paternal rights and as long as his name is on that birth certificate she can't do anything without him. she said she'll just not put his name on it...he said he'd get a paternity test done. so he is thinking about keeping it. which i don't know how he'll manage to care for a child without a job, vehicle, insurance, house....BUT good news is he's looking into parenting classes and getting on wic, hud and state insurance to get started. (i gave him my baby books to read and made him spend a day with me and the kids) even though my guys are 15 months old i showed him how to change diapers, nap time, bath time, eating, what the different cries were (at least for my guys) and just the joys (and some downfalls) of being a parent. his friend was having a huge party that night and i told him flat out he could not go. if he was serious about the baby he had to be at my house ALL night. (i even woke him up every 2-4 hours through out the night and made him go through the process of making a bottle, not with formula but heating up the water and what not, and staying up for about 30-45 minutes...long enough for a diaper change and feeding) even though he mumbled, groaned and complained about not having a life he stayed. which i told him that's how it was having kids. you don't get to have a life. IF you get a babysitter you can go out for a bit, but no drunk unless the baby was staying over somewhere. so i think it's getting through his head. i think. he said he's still thinking (and reading) so....only time will tell. i told him if they do want to put the baby up for adoption that once the child is old enough to understand things THEN GREG AND I will sit him/her down and explain about biological parents and adoptive parents....and all that jazz. b/c it would be selfish of us not to tell the him/her about it.

i just hope these two can come to an agreement on what to do. even if chad gets the baby i told him since i'm a sahm i'd be more than happy to babysit for him so he could work. the kids could have another baby to play with and the baby could have his/her cousins to grow up with.

[Victoria01]

I'm happy to hear that atleast he is attempting to learn about being a parent and getting things like the insurance and doing parenting classes. Maybe it is a step in the right direction for him and he will grow up and be a good father to the baby. Everything starts with baby steps, and maybe this is his. I really do hope he succeeds and is willing to give the baby a loving, stable home.

[heatherlynn22]

me too victoria.