Listening to the radio this morning I heard about a15 year old commited suicide because of bullying ..in thisschool and I guess most they have 'zero tolerance' meaning they cannot fight back with bullying, we wre told years ago in England you stood up to a bully, how can you if its not allowed what does a child do just 'Take It' Mant of you have children who are going through this or will be , what will you do if your child is at risk from Bullies and they are not allowed to retaliate?
good question Margypops--------- After trying to ignore them as this will thwart a lot of bullies, but if that didn't work I think what I would do is get involved as a parent. I would call the school principal with any names of bullies and specific examples (any proof via the cyber world as well). If they have a zero tolerance policy regarding students standing up for themselves, then they must have disciplinary measures to handle it. That might not make the problem go away, so I would contact their parents. I'd make a LOT of noise about it. But knowing how to stand up to bullies is important. It often doesn't take brute force but knowing that bullies are usually severely insecure and actually pretty vulnerable emotionally. So I'd give him an emotional punch back. I don't take too well to bullies myself and I would go to great lengths to protect my kid. And I also think kids all the way through the teens need to be monitered to a certain extent with computers and cell phones and daily happenings. ---------- this poor young man that committed suicide must have been depressed. I wonder if his parents were aware and if medical intervention could have helped. Very sad and I hope never to face such issues.
It seems to be worse somehow ,maybe because of the internet I actaully have seen some of it go on amongst the teens on Facebook ,but most seem to cope with it, years ago at least in UK you wre able to stand up and yell or bash back, its not allowed now here or in the UK I think the schools must take more responsibility if they see Physical or verbal abuse ,more supervision and hey the parents at home should take the Internet away . I have a relative whose son was hard of hearing and wore deaf hearing aids , the modern digital ones, he was ragged so much about it he stopped eating and started acting out ,has refused to wear any hearing aid, since then , they are trying to get him into counselling, this all stemmed from bullying ..
I think it IS worse today. My daughter was bullied all through middle school. I kept going in and talking to the teachers, principal, even the girls once because I knew them. Big mistake, that only made things worse! I told the teachers I was thinking of pulling her out and they kept saying no, she'd have to learn to stand up for herself and she'd just have this in any school I put her in. I wish I hadn't listened to them because she went downhill fast. She started hanging out with the kids who accepted her, the outcasts and they introduced her to a lot of scary things. I lost my sweet little girl for a few years there and instead had a depressed, angry child who was hurting herself. We had her in counseling for almost 2 years and did finally move her to a new school.
That helped but what really saved her was going back to her roots and coming back to God on a youth retreat. She's a different kid today. She's much happier, calmer and has a big heart and a lot of compassion now for others who are hurting because she's been there and understands.
I thank God every day for bringing my sweet daughter back to me but it greatly disturbs me to see so many great kids lost in all this bullying. Something must be done to put a stop to this. This should never be tolerated, ever. I think teachers and principals are not taking this seriously enough.
I know in our situation, the girls were "talked to" but never really punished. The thing is, they mostly did stuff when the teachers didn't see it so they felt like there wasn't much they could do. It was pretty frustrating as a parent to see all this.
I'm seriously thinking about homeschooling my youngest son. I don't want him to ever have to go through something like that. No child should ever have to go through that.
In my experience, bullying is MUCH better now than when I was in school.
When I was in jr. high and high school bullying was horrible. I could even now come up with the names of kids who were treated mercilessly. Why no one in administration helped those kids, I don't understand. This one family had two sons, and they dressed the boys like nerds from the 50's, and this was the 70's. If you were going to purposely try to dress like a total geek for halloween, this is what you'd look like. Plaid straight leg pants, tucked in short sleeve dress shirt, slicked down hair, buddy holly glasses, black dress shoes and black socks. GADS. Where do you even buy clothing like that, I wonder. Those pants must have been 20 years old, there is no retail outlet that would have sold those slacks. It's like an extreme effort was made by the parents, especially the dad who was a weird cop, to make these boys the object of ridicule. Another girl was a little heavy and STUNK. She didn't brush her teeth, didn't wash her hair, didn't change her underwear, UGH she smelled so bad no one would sit near her because it would literally make you sick to your stomach every time she moved.
Where were the counselors or social workers here, to call the parents in and put a stop to this? So sad.
Kids have been bullied in scholl since the biginning of time, my daughter was bullied, because she was shy over weight, and because of it she was slow in learning and came home crying the school did nothing the teachers did nothing, but this was years ago my children are grown and have granchildren my one daughter never did learn and she would skip school when she could they had no special classes for slow learners then or troubled children. they will just have to do as i taught my older daughter stand up to them, no one is going to help them, if a kid is not dressed nice they make fum they make fun of retarded kids their parents are to blame for this my daughter is gone now, and no longer has to face this life she passed away on her birthday at the age of 50 not much schooling only slaps from the teacher because she could not learn i taught all of my children never to make fun of someone. and to always be nice to others jo
From what I read and see not only is the bullying worse but the suicide rates among teens have been on the rise for some time. I just read that girls are starting to jump ahead in the numbers on that too and that teen girls who have abortions are more likely to commit suicide. I found several articles on this that I can share if anyone wants me to. Here's just a small snippet from one.
Statistics reveal that suicide rate among young teens and young adults have increased by almost 300 per cent.
Research says that suicide is the sixth leading cause of death among six to 14-year-olds and the third leading cause for 15 to 25year olds.
Just from my own observances, I've noticed girls bully different from boys. Boys are more physical but girls can rip you up and down with just their words. They can be cruel. And that hurts a lot worse and goes way deeper, I feel, than being punched. Still, either type of bullying is uncalled for and needs to be taken very seriously.
Kids have found a new way to bully, too, as was mentioned above, by cyber bullying. There have been kids who committed suicide after being bullied this way.
Parents need to know all their kids passwords and check their kids Myspace page constantly. My kids were not allowed to have a Myspace without me having access to it. It was a real eye opener too, let me tell you. I saw girls on my daughter's friend's list who were maybe 13 or 14 at the time sharing sexually explicit pictures, using filthy and sexual language and talking terrible to each other. Every time I'd see something like that I'd warn my daughter to tell them to knock it off because I could see it or her page would be shut down. I had her shut it down a few times, once for more than a year, before letting her try again.
Kids are so much more savvy now days and the cyber bullying is something many parents may not even think about or be aware of.
Just really pay attention if your child starts becoming more isolated, grades go down, etc.
My daughter was (and still is) a beautiful girl who took care of her appearance and clothing, so it's not always about looks. She struggled in school, though, and was a bit shy. Kids will always find something to pick on with another child. Yes, we need to teach them to stand up for themselves but we also have to do the best we can to protect them, all adults who are in their lives.
This subject is near and dear to my heart. All of last school year, my then 14-year-old daughter was bullied...by a COP at the school. I wonder if he had flirted with her, been turned down by her, so THEN started the bullying. She isn't telling, so I may never know. (I wrote journals here on MH about it in frustration, the journals are still up, but they are long.) It was HORRIBLE, and I wondered at times if my daughter was ever suicidal. Our moving to TN is greatly because our daughter felt like she HAD to get out of this town. (Now, the move makes financial sense.)
I hope to encourage everyone to STAND UP TO BULLIES! I went to the Chief of Police AND to the School Resource Officer's (SRO) immediate supervisor over the bullying this weirdo was doing. GUESS WHAT????!!!!! That SRO has been removed from my daughter's school. At the time of my meeting(s) with these officers, I didn't think my complaints were going any where. What a difference a year makes.
I remember your daughter Twe and what you all went through and the way you stood up to that pig ...They tried it on me at boarding school as I had a birth mark on my face , later removed by laser, guess what I thrashed em .I guess you cant do that today ...pity ..
I was bullied in school. from 6th grade until i graduated. i had a total of 5 friends. (they're still my closest and dearest friends) it was AWFUL. i came from a single parent home (my mom and dad divorced when i was 2 1/2) so we weren't rick, i didn't have "the" clothes or shoes, i was overweight (when i get depressed i eat....), i was good in school though. that was the only thing i could focus on was my school work. i'd go home in tears. no matter who you are, where you go...there are going to be bullies. i hope to god my children never have to experience what it's like to be bullied. and if they are i hope they will come to me instead of doing what so many kids are doing...taking their own lives. i don't know what i'd do without my little boogers.
What is the phsychology of a bully I wonder, is it a control thing, they are usully kids with out muchselfesteem them selves, and problems at home, and they arent too bright havent you noticed the brightest ones are the ones that get bullied almost a jealousy thing going on , whats your theory... why do they bully .....
April, I think what Jo said and she can correct me if I am wrong----- is that from a young age---- we as parents need to instill character into our children. That making fun of others is unacceptable. I've worked on this with my boys. I believe wholeheartedly that they know if I ever caught them being rude, hurtful and mean to another on purpose--------- they'd be in trouble with me. What they do when they older will be telling---------- but they've gotten the message as little guys that it is wrong to make fun of someone. I think this was the essence of what Jo was saying.
The cyber world added another layer of what people can do to one another in my opinion.
And I was a shy girl. Two times I was bullied . . . the first time was in second grade and I knocked the boy's tooth out with my bookbag and he swallowed it. (I got a light padding from the principal of the school-------- but it was SOOO worth it.) and the second time a girl kicked me under our table in home ed in middle school. I kicked her back as hard as I could and stood up and said loudly, if you ever kick me again you'll be sorry. She was shocked as she didn't expect the meek one to take her on. But ya know what, never bullied again by either.
As I studied the psychology of bullies in school (as in I was in school, grad school), they are traditionally very weak people. Being picked on is a different matter than actual bullying and that has to do with what I mentioned earlier. Kids being taught to have empathy for others. It is a shame that kids are cruel.
Boy, I hope my kids don't let me down and don't pick on another person!
Bullies are often one of two things--------- extremely insecure and envious of the other person in some way. OR they are extremely arrogant and narcisstic. And both bully to have control over another as well as lack empathy about others feelings.
And picking on someone IS bullying if it is used to socially isolate someone. Just the occasional making fun of is a little different (not good)--- but it is the repeated nature of it that makes it bullying.
what i meant is that if the parent would supervise their children more closly and just see what they are up to things would be better you can go tell a parent that their child is making fun of others and they do not beleive you and some says tell your child to hold up for themselfs and some children canr because they are retarded many parents refuse to beleive their children would do anythin like this and they are in denial i have seen many parents this way and talked with them they got mad, and said no my kids would not act that way my daughter was a shy and a slow learner and would cry i taught my older one to fight back jo
See, I should never speak for anyone. lol. Parents DO need to be involved with their kids and supervise them. There have been studies done looking at bullies and what kinds of families they come from. Often the circumstances are not good and the bully has often been verbally and physically abused in their home or at the very least, treated roughly. Many parents don't want to take ownership of their child's actions when they have contributed to them. Many other parents are in denial that their child would be cruel or hurtful. Heck, I'd hate to see my kids do that. But I know as a parent, it is my job to step in and take action if my child is bullying. I have one with a developmental delay. He'll know how to defend himself, but you still worry about the internal damage on their psyche. I still believe character lessons early on help down the road. (hopefully!!)
Totally agree with you it all starts at home with , values children are not born bullies , I have often seen that many disfunctional families, not all, have children who act out especially beating up verbally and physically on other school children ,I still feel that the bullied child needs to be taught by their parents that they have to stand up to them however they can..maybe there needs to be lessons in school about doing just that ......;..
You are so right Specialmom, we live in a rural area and the school district has one school K-12 the graduating class size is about 70. Most of the parents were involved in their kid’s activities and believed the same as we do. Walk away the best you can, don’t call people names, if someone hits you, you have the right to defend yourself. If you hit first though the wrath of Dad will be on you.
It’s amazing how good peer pressure can stop bullying.
I am 100% in agreeance that if someone puts their hands on my child, I give my child full permission to fight back. I will never allow my son to taunt or torment any other kid. I was actually picked on all throughout Junior High and it was because I didn't develop breasts until I was in highschool. They used to call me flat chested all of the time. It hurt but I hurt them back when we went to a little school reunion and my boobs had developed, I was the main attraction that night. But I think bullying has gotten really bad, instead of someone beating you up for your lunch money they are socially ostrasizing (sp.?) you.
Yes, making someone a social outcast (easier to spell that that other word--- lol) is a form of bullying as well. It is just as painful emotionally as the other kind of bullying. Glad you had your revenge at the reunion---- I'm still waiting for mine to grow so I can be the main attraction sometime------------ LOL
Yeah, that's what happened with my daughter. It wasn't so much physical bullying as it was using words as a weapon. Making fun of her, mocking her, making her feel stupid. These girls used to steal her papers and cause her to get in trouble in class or steal her gym clothes and she'd get in trouble with the gym teacher. Of course, my daughter wouldn't rat on them so would most often suffer in silence.
These girls were rich and snotty and thought they were "all that". We were not rich and didn't have the name brand clothes, cars, etc. The girls were so immature then and still are! My daughter says when she sees them they still act the same way, silly, giggly, immature girls.
I'm glad my daughter is my daughter. She went through a lot but it made her stronger, gave her more compassion for the underdog and made her a better person. These girls, to my knowledge, still have not changed. How sad.
Margy - I know you didn't mean it was to to start a fight and I didn't take it that way at all.
Mami - lol I know about teasing and being ostrasized, I was the geeky kid in school that worked with the A/V equipment and even had teachers tell me I would never amount to much. I have had the last laugh as well, Engineering became a passion and getting my degree an unstoppable goal.
My daughter was bullied horrendously when she was around 11/12 years old. She is very little and was teased about that, which she made jokes back and handled well. It was when she started getting a lump in her neck that the real taunting started. Eventually, she refused to go to school. She, who was a straight A student and loved school, not wanting to go? It made me aware.
She finally admitted to me what was going on, so I spoke to her school which had a Bully Programme in place, but they did nothing. They said perhaps she should stand up for herself, and it was all hearsay anyway. That THEIR precious Catholic Girl's school would NEVER have their girl's be like that, it must be another school. (No it wasn't!) My daughter finally broke down in front of the teachers at this meeting and threatened to kill herself, they said she was being over dramatic.
I had a plan. I took her to the railway station where she was being bullied by those other girls from the same school. I told her I would pretend to leave and she would be safe. I wanted to see what was going on. I saw these girls, take her water bottle (it was summer here in Australia and HOT and a 45 minute train journey to the school) and tip it out, laughing at her. They then called her EggHead (coz she is very smart) and then told her she must have swallowed an ostrich egg and she'd never get a guy that way. I stepped out from behind the bushes, walked up to the main offender, grabbed her by her school dress lapels and said to her startled face, "You know what? You EVER do that again to my daughter or anything else to my daughter I will throw you on the train track when the express is coming, YOU HEAR ME!?"
This girl almost wet herself! She must have thought I was nuts! I would never have carried out my threat, but just wanted to show her the same fear as my daughter was going through.
A few months later we discovered my daughter had a life threatening cyst in her throat which was operated on. This gave her a scar on her throat and again the taunting started. It took 12 months of me trying to get her back to school. I threatened the school with legal action if they did not intervene and stop this bullying. They turned around and said, I hear you see a psychiatrist? (I was undiagnosed Hashimoto's and suffered depressionI asked so? They said obviously I have 'problems' and must be feeding that to my daughter. I removed her from school and put her in one 15 minutes away where she graduated with honours and never took one day off school, as she loved it so much. THAT school was totally aware of the bullying and gave her a 'buddy' to whom she could confide. That new school had mediation days and the kids all knew where they stood on the bullying which rarely happened.
I cannot believe that was 10 years ago. My daughter now 22, suffers still from self esteem problems. Why the bleeeep that first 'good school' that my then ex-husband insisted she go to, could not see what was happening amazes me. The problem is not just at the time, but often scars the child for life.
OMG thats awful April so scary..I like the idea of home schooling as long as the child gets some socialisation aswell, I think Families do it in Groups now for that reason at least in the UK they do ...Your posts were very interesting it shows that children of all ages and any physical differances.. ie being short or no boobs or over weight can be a target,, like the bully senses the vunerability and goes for it to obtain Kudos for then selves..Lessons in how to defeat bullies need to be taught and learned ....and parents watch that internet as cyber bullying goes on a lot.....
I was very tiny growing up . I was very short and skinny.I was taught to be strong and to defend myself no matter what. If someone did try to bully me I took care of it the first time and nipped it in the bud. Bullies do not care if a teacher tells them not to bully. Actually that makes the situation much worse. I am not talking about children who are mentally or physically challenged. But children need to be able to stand up for themselves. It is not fun for the bully when someone knocks the h*ll out of them and they will not bully you any more after that.
I do not believe in home schooling on the grounds of sheltering your child from the big bad world. The big nasty world will still be there when the child turns 18 and heads to college. Even if there is some socialisation it is not the same.You have got to learn how to get along with the masses whether you want to or not to be able to succed in life.
Unfortunately bullies come in all shapes and sizes these days and a simple email address or facebook page leaves a kid open to bullying. Some of the worst kind of bullying is that that does entail external bruises but that which isolates a child. I hate that! As to those that don't respect authority . . . to me it goes back to my original point. Young children that are taught that kind of respect usually have some of it when they are teenagers. I'm sure, not always, but parental responsibility to teach it and expect it of kids has to be there. my opinion.
Very often if children see the family having respect for one and other they will emulate it, it will be part of their life and if there is kindness and respect at home it will follow into their school life ..I always found in my few dealings that the more disfunctional the family at home the more likely the child would hurt and bully others ..
As you all will soon see I am very blunt and to the point .But I always tell the truth as I see it. People either appriciate it or hate it.
I agree that a childs home life impacts who they will become.
Emotional scars do take the longest to heal. But words are just that words. It is up to the parent to raise a child that is confident and self assured. So that the child knows that its all just a bunch of B.S. . When I was growing up I knew that I could tell my parents anything and they would not judge me. Why is it that some children are afraid to go to their own parents and discuss problems?How do parents not pick up on the fact that the child is having problems or suicidal? In my opinion it is absolutly and completely the parents fault!
I feel that this Politically Correct B.S is contributing to the problem. Why does everyone on the team deserve a trophy even if your team loses? It rewards mediocracy.It creates resentment. Dont get me wrong it is ok to lose and that does not make you any less of a person.Unfortuantly everyone cannot win and does not excel at everything.Everyone is not pretty or smart. And thats ok. We are not all created equal and thats what makes us human. Kids and actually people in general have become a bunch of rude overindulged narcissitic thin skinned wussies.
I am going to be honest here I was sort of an anti-bully bully. I would defend the kids that did not defend themselves. But after a while what actually bothered even more than the actual bullying was the kids not defending themselves. So after watching the same kids get picked on and the kids just letting it happen I decided that they needed to Nut up or deal with it. There is not always going to be some one around to defend you. You have got to learn to take care of yourself. Bullying has been going on sense the dawn of time and will continue until the end of days....Kids need to learn how to deal with it.
As an Immigrant from UK when I first came to the US I wondered about the idea of rewarding children even when they didnt win a trophy, I then recognised the reason was that America has the kindest heart and a most most generous spirit ,it translated to the idea that the child would be hurt not to have some award.I do not believe this harms ,if the winner gets a big Trophy and the loser gets a small trophy for participating ,thats a good thing ,in my opinion,in fact the UK started to copy .. Not being created equal does not mean that some kind spirit of building self confidence to do well cannot exist, so I understand what you mean, I like the way of rewarding all, even if its just for trying ....
When you have a child . . . and you have to have one to really get this---------- the lesson is playing the game well not always winning. For that, all kids deserve the trophy. It is an accomplishment to be on a team and do your best.
Oh, and my above above post, I meant to say . . . some of the worst kind of bullying is that that does NOT entail bruises . . . like cyber bullying. That is a tricky one------- love how they keep coming up with new and improved ways of torturing people!
All just my opinion of course-------- no better nor worse than anyone elses!
I do not feel that wether I have a child or not makes me any less able to as you put it Really Get This. This is about basic life experience and our childhood molding us into adults.
It is great to give positive reinforcement when a child gives their all.Kind loving encouraging words are whats needed.Doing their best is whats really important.Thats even more reason to not give trophies to all. Giving rewards to all just makes them feel a sense of entitlement. It says heck no matter what I do I will still be rewarded. whether I actually try or not. In the real adult world we do not get prizes and trophies. We do not bonus at our jobs if we dont actually deserve it . If we do not perform well at work we get fired. Life is not all puppies and kittens. You can try to sugar coat stuff but when those kids get out into the real world they will be eaten alive by it.
I respectfully disagree that when they get out into the real world they get eaten alive, I think positive behavior in the home , respect and kindness are part of moulding them ,whats wrong with a sense of entitlement I always had one ,maybe my version of entitlement is differant , I know I am as good as anyone else, my Mom told me I was, she instilled in me that I was strong ,had integrity and kindness ,I was rewarded with words and treats, pretty much like they do here with the trophies for trying,.I see my entire life with the glass half full.My love of this country is partly that they do reward everyone for winning or for trying .I think thats what makes America the most exceptional country in the World...
Thats exactly what this forum is for ,healthy debates...No one is right or wrong ...
I always say that opinions are like a$$holes , everybody has one....
Entitlement or a 'Sense of Entitlement' is an unrealistic, unmerited or inappropriate expectation of favorable living conditions and favorable treatment at the hands of others.They may appear at times to care only about their own desires and needs at the expense of other people around them or they may habitually prioritize their own needs above those of others.
I too was raised in a very positive, kind and respectful home. I am very self confident and also know that I am as good as every one else. I was taught that the way to reach goals was through hard work . That things are just not handed to you in life. And I would not have wanted it any other way.But I do not feel that just because I am breathing that I am entitled. I am a realist I do not see a full or an empty glass. I just see a glass.
I showed horses when I was younger. I worked my a$$ off . I was not only good at it I was fortunate to have great horses. Not everyone got ribbons and awards. The prettiest horse or the best rider recieved the awards. It is not fair to the people who win to give awards to everyone else .Why should they have to share their hard work and accomplishments with every one else?
This rewarding everyone for everything business is relatively new.My husband coached football both popwarner and highschool. They did not reward everyone. You had to work hard and earn it. Whats wrong with hard work to achieve goals?
Yes America is good at giving everything to everyone....But thats an entirely different subject....
Usually the trophy for everyone IS the younger kids. They work hard and one of their lessons is that you do not have to win to be a winner. It is actually a hard lesson to teach children . . . Kids start sports, games, really anything to win win win. But everyone can't always win. So children need to be taught that they can feel good about their efforts even if they don't win. A trophy or medal or pin is a token of effort. Everyone is a winner for trying. So in the big bad world . . . you can still feel good about your effort even if you aren't the big winner. That you see that your efforts are worth something too. That doing your best is really the most important part of everything that we do. That is actually a posative lesson for kids to learn. That is my opinion. You'll see a token of playing being given usually to younger kids early in their athletic careers. So . . . we do agree that one must work hard to earn their rewards . . . but that doesn't always mean being the big winner.
I'm not sure if any of you have heard about a situation at a local highschool in my area on the news. It is a case of alleged bullying that took place by Carmel Highschool students in Carmel Indiana.It alleges that 4 senior basketball players did some sort of bullying/sexual battery to some freshman students on a bus . There were 4 coaches on this bus at the time this was suppose to have happened.This is being kept very hush hush and not alot of info is being given to the media.
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