Educate me - opinions on Socialized Health Care...???

[cowgirlnerd]

My oldest son works 35 hours a week; goes to college; and makes $7.50 per hour.  He is trying to save money to pay for books, gas to go to work, car insurance, etc., and told me the other day that his employer is going to let the part-time people get health insurance.  It will be $85 per week for single coverage.  That would leave him with about $100 and he doesn't think he can afford it.  I have explained the cost for actually getting sick....he just can't afford it.  (breaks my heart).

He is adamant (you guys think that I am a liberal - whoah boy!), that the healthcare system in the state that it is is groteseque and insist that socialized health care is the only humane method for everyone to be able to have insurance.  

Educate me....   I see where he's coming from, but I have heard horror stories about it and want to be able to help him understand and CONVINCE him that he can and should have insurance...(I offered to pay 1/2 and he refused on "priniciple"....

[margypops]

Healthcare OBama style going down the chute , up in Flames what ever name you care to call it, read everyones lips , did you listen to the news , even the Mayo Clinic has come out and said too much too fast too much....Thing is we will get a better health care than it was, just not his way, open your Eyes America and smell the coffee.

[Cherie762]

kinda wish there was some reforms comming soon, will let you all know how much my neck surgery will cost my insurace co, thus raising our rates for next year Im guessing 100k, then the hospital accepts a lower price like 60k, however if one had no insurance there is  no bartering very unfair.

[twehner5]

TO: ILADVOCATE and HelpinUtah

YEPPERS!  What YOU said!  You guys are GREAT!

[HelpinUtah]

I was sad to see our debates gone on this thread.  I don't know what else to say!  

[ILADVOCATE]

Oh well. Think that one thread went down but I did bookmark the links and will be reading over the healthcare bill in its entirety but it will take a while but as I posted like any bill would not be surprised if it has extraneous parts added to benefit particular politicians but in skimming through it (its 500 pages, not a quick read) I did notice some strong specific language that will redetermine and stop people who commit fraud (which is one thing I think people would support I know they had their concerns) but honestly I can't comment on it until the final version is ready for approval as it will like all bills have some give or take between the various political factions. No need to revisit the whole thing (in my mind) until that's done but I will be following up and then make up my mind at that point.

[twehner5]

Oh, why not?

[margypops]

Me Thinks  this deserves a good old fashioned ....bump  

[ILADVOCATE]

Well there was a Supreme Court decision about that specific issue, that is when a person with a disability cannot perform the essential function of one job but is able to work should the company be required to assign them another job in the same workplace. The Supreme Court sided against that one as well as other restrictions on the Americans with Disabilities Act. Interestingly enough there was a law signed into effect that reversed some of the denials the Supreme Court had made as regarding the Americans with Disabilities Act and it was signed into effect by George Bush when he was president (partially because it was put into law with other legislation as regarding the economy and partially because his father the first George Bush had signed the ADA to begin with). That would not necessarily support what happened at your workplace nor would I myself agree with it. It just shows that legislation as regarding the rights of people with disabilities is not really a divisive issue confined to one political mindset.

[teko]

I used to handle workers comp claims in Ohio. Actually, the reason a job was created for him was twofold. It benefits the employer rather than take the person off work and draw a check from the state. They want to get a person to settle with them because if there is no settlement and the claim has been allowed, then the workers comp has to pay for life long medical care for that injury as well as any resulting from having that injury including resulting depression from a person being taken out of the workplace. If the worker was smart, he would not have settled. He sort of bit off his nose to spite his face. Now if he ever loses his job and insurance and the old injury flares, he is just out a luck. They are off the hook. By the worker staying on the job, it does not raise the rates of the employer also. At least that is the way it works in Ohio. And I agree, with you when you say it is simply a business. Your friend just got bested and dont know it. Works the same way pretty much with all insurance, beit car, etc. lol

[cowgirlnerd]

I checked into the keeping him on my insurance but unfortunately, my policy at work doesn't allow it.  HIS FATHER on the other hand, could have, but wouldn't do it.  (HE ate a second bowl of stupid - that's going to be my new saying, twehner5!)  

Teko, I handle the workman's comp at work for the employees and one of my employees got hurt on the job a year ago - do you know that we have had to MAKE a position for him  (ok, we didn't have to but it was the right thing to do) because even though he can't use his arm that was crushed in a fall - they released him with restrictions....can't climb or lift over 100 pounds.    OK, he installs track onto stages and has to be in lifts, climbs ladders and lifts steel....so HOW can you be released to do your job when you restrict what the entire job does.  THEN, they offered him a settlement of $6,000 and medical care for that specific injury.  We pay all of this money into the fund thinking that our employees are going to be taken care of and they aren't.  Just slapping a band aid on it and send them on their way.   Ok, that was a rant, but I agree - it's VERY much a business, and not monitored and healthcare is just out of control, IMO.

Gee Wiz!

[teko]

ikn, I keep hearing all the negatives. Im still waiting for solutions to be offered. So far I have heard none.  Obviously no one has any, just a lot of complaints. As I said before, to us that cannot get health insurance for whatever reason? Something is better than nothing, cause to us, we already have a death sentence! I have worked many years in the medical field, from handling the workmens comp for a group of orthopedics, working in the nursing homes, billing, coding, etc.  We have gotten to where healthcare is a business, very expensive, very inadequate and you already have insurance companies telling you what you can and can not do and when you can do it. So I personally do not see what we got to lose except high cost.

[Barb135]

You wrote: "If we get the waste out of what we already have, it will pretty much pay for a new health plan."

If we could the waste out of what we already have, we wouldn't NEED a new health plan.....................................................

[Melissa0116]

Here is the thing;  What Obama is proposing about the healthcare overhaul is great and all but not even realistic.  

Here is what will happen based on what our Medicare and Medicaid system is like.  My hubby works for a Government Medicaid and Medicare company and works on their security and the monetary issues on a daily basis.  

When companies see how much less the cost is to have the Government plan, they will drop their private insurance plans in order to get the cheaper option.  This is what he wants to do.  He is telling you all just what you want to hear but you will see that private insurance and choosing your own provider will eventually be eliminated all together and you will only have one choice; the governements insurance plan.  That way they can have control over what procedures are being done, if you can get a specific procedure, and whether or not they feel that you really need the specific procedure.  So, it sounds great right now but you need to really read between the lines and ask lots of questions regarding this specific overhaul.  We all want the healthcare that we deserve but I certainly do not want someone telling me whether I am allowed to live or die.  Certain procedures will be done no matter what you want or have to say since they will be in charge of the costs involved.  Also, taxes will be alot higher and this Country will be in worse shape than it is right now.  I do feel that the way the healthcare system is run right now is ridiculous.  But, alot of our problems with the system comes down to lawyers and malpractice costs.  Also, because the pharmaceutical companies basically determine how much prescriptions cost and seem to find new meds for all these new conditions which costs more money and more malpractice lawsuits.  

We all need to question and research what this plan will do to this country.  We already are in so much debt and it will only get worse.  We need to figure out a way to fix these problems but it cannot be done overnight.  Their are so many unanswered questions and unfortunately these questions are not even being answered;  they are just pushed to the side so that it is not dealt with.  This is the reason that this system overhaul did not work in the past.  

[margypops]

Isnt that paid by the clubs though ...

[nissah46]

I have no problem with what doctors get paid.  I do have a problem with what professional athletes get paid.

[teko]

Seriously! Jeesh!

Unbelieveable!  Seems everything we do now days is pay more for less. Shrinking of the cereal boxes for same money, less health care for more money! The rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer. I have heard that saying all my life and have just in recent years come to see its meaning!

[twehner5]

Maybe it depends on the person's policy?  My son just completed his 1st year of college.  Our policy covers a "child" under the age of 23 as long as they are a full-time college student (they do NOT have to take summer classes).  

Unfortunately, a month ago our ins. co. ate a 2nd bowl of stupid and made us PROVE our 3 children were our children AND that we are married!  We asked if we could send a copy of our income tax return first page....  If Uncle Sam ain't complaining, who is this insurance company that has been covering us for 4 years now to say "married, filing jointly" ain't good enough...?  NOPE.  They wanted birth certificates and our marriage license!  WOW!  They didn't require this when my husband GOT the job 4 years ago....

It's just an indication of where the economy is - insurance co.'s are trying to give the boot to anyone and everyone they can.  Can't blame them, but they should have asked for this info up front.  I can also see our son proving he IS a full-time student.  Plenty of kids go off to college, only to wash out, but the 2 younger children...?  And a marriage license?  Wow.

[teko]

I always thought you could keep your children on your policy as long as they were in school?  Or have they cut that out too? I no when my kids were younger, we had that option but I do not remember if they had to live at home or not?

[hope4thegoodstuff]

If this was posted above and I missed it, I apologize.  I was reading about a hospital in Cleveland?  I like their approach.  Drs and surgeons are paid a wage...just like you and me...though I daresay theirs is in a bit higher tax bracket than mine and rightly so.  But instead of a surgeon thinking...I get this much for this many procedures and we can throw in this test and that test...he gets the same wage no matter how many procedures he does.  

Instead of a dr saying....if I take this many office calls....we'll make this much money...well you get the drift.  So they can take their time with each patient...giving each person the care they deserve....They don't push for as many "questionable tests or unneeded tests and x-rays" because they get paid the same no matter what they do.....

Is something like that workable?

[cowgirlnerd]

He actually was able to get his health insurance for $23 per week.   The $85 was for the entire cafeteria plan (disability, life, etc).  So, that's a bit more affordable.  

The bad thing is that there is so much insanity of the prices of treatments that you feel a desparation for some kind of insurance to be able to be treated and not go bankrupt.  I can't image if he was hurt or sick that he wouldn't get treated.  There's no amount of money I wouldn't give my son if he was sick or hurt, but the amounts of money that it would actually take to pay the bills direct - it's impossible.

When he changes jobs, hopefully, he will be given an opportunity to have a policy.  He hopes that we will changes in the way of a new system.  Like you he (and I ) belive that the waste is the main problem.  

Rach  

[teko]

If we get the waste out of what we already have, it will pretty much pay for a new health plan.

[swampcritter]

FYI, Swampy's journal where he does the math on what socialized medicine would cost:

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/47987

[alikat1205]

as a college student, i was eligible for a plan through my school which was $600/year.  i had to pay it up front when i paid my tuition but it was worth it.  i was pregnant my last year of school, and the ins. covered nearly everything.  if i had put that $600/year in an account to pay it would not have covered my costs.  hospitals do offer discounted rates if you are uninsured, you should ask.  most states have charity hospitals and clinics to provide care for the uninsured.  i would not recommend your son pay over nearly his entire check per month for health insurance, but look into some of these other methods to get health care needs met.  

[teko]

85.00 wkly for single coverage of a college student! Wow! So he is good until he changes jobs? Or the employer decides to drop it.  Or until he has an issue and needs to use it and his issue risks his employment. Then if he manages to keep his job thru it all, will it pay 50-70-80 or 100%.  Assuming it pays 80% and he is held responsible for the othe 20. Now he will have to work another job just to pay for the other 20% because 7.50 per hr isnt going to do it. So, he will drop the healthinsurance in order to pay for other things that are necessary, like food. The vicious circle of healthcare in america. And they are banking that he is in great health and will never use it so if this is the case, they get 85.00 a week from just this one healthy young person until he moves on to other job with different insurance or drops it.  No wonder the healthcare industry is so powerful.