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How do you all feel how President Obama has been with other leaders of ...
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How do you all feel how President Obama has been with other leaders of world

I really would like to see from you all here, what you all think of how President Obama has protrayed, our country to foriegn leaders of the world? Personally i think he really has hurt our country by being, overly nice to the Cuban heads of state, and Chavez. I am sorry if i am insulting anyone but why would the President of our country bow to a king of Aribia. I really dont think our president should bow ro anyone? Just my thoughts please give me yours
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585414_tn?1288944902
I would tend to agree. The most important thing to me is whether he is doing it out of fear or being a diplomat. I know that when President Nixon sent Henry Kissinger to China meeting their obligations wasn't on our agenda. But it was that approach that got them to tone down and work with us and not be our outright enemies. I'm not sure why either of those leaders are worth approaching though as they are not that important. Hugo Chavez is the leader of a country with oil resources but there are a growing number of people in his own country who dislike him and Castro probably will be gone in a number of years along with communism with him. I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. He has brought ruin to that country. Sometimes a president has to negotiate with an unpopular leader but it should be in our nation's best interest.
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611067_tn?1279065256
I'm disappointed that our President would apologize to other countries about our so-called arrogance.  I'm sorry but he's supposed to be a mouthpiece for the people.  I'm sure there are many who believe he has his reasons, but to me he was out of line.
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Avatar_f_tn
"Personally i think he really has hurt our country by being, overly nice to the Cuban heads of state, and Chavez."

How about this video of Obama pointing at Hugo Chavez. It looks like a tense conversation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrdXEI3Yyfw
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535822_tn?1389452880
Thank you for putting this up here , he has weakened America a great deal, he has said very negative things about us calling us derisory and agressive and more , he has cosied up to some dictators in such a remarkable way,bowing to the king of Saudi Arabia when he wouldnt even visit the American graves in Normandy or bow to the Queen of England,  I question his agenda, and I voted for him.Actually Hillary Clinton has backed off I have noticed recently and is seeming to distance her self from him a bit. these recent Pictures of abuse are going to fire up a lot of people and I dont see why he has to give the okay to let them be seen, we need to move on not go back. We have more problems than he seems to want to make priority to,He seems to have some very strong feelings about making us eat crow, I think we have to all stand up and be counted in 3-4 years, before its too late ..Some of Europes papers  have started to sit up and notice  his extraordinary behavior of course if you sat and listened to the Rev Wright for 20 years you may also have that kind of agenda we are all shaped by our experiences ....arent we?
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285927_tn?1380802356
I am not sure what to think right now, I think I will give him the benefit of the doubt for now.  I am sure Chavez expected the New American president to distance him or treat him in a cool manner.  I am sure his head is going in circles as a result of the reception he got.  I tend to think the media is looking for ratings as well. My mama always told me to never believe anything you hear and only half of what you see.  So yeah, I will withold judgment at this time.  I like the way he is taking on the credit card companies as well as tackling the health care issue as well.  No other president has dared be so bold and honest about it in the process.  I find this approach refreshing. Of course, I voted for him, so I am gonna support him till I am convinced he is EVIL and plotting to bring about our destruction as a company and all that good stuff. lol And america is divided, and we are full of ourselves.  Fact or fiction?
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Avatar_f_tn
"when he wouldnt even visit the American graves in Normandy or bow to the Queen of England"

He did a half bow. If you ask any European whether or not you are supposed to bow to the queen, they will say, "not really". Most people don't.

Obama was simply following the rules.... very wise move when you are dealing with leaders in other countries. You must show respect.
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765070_tn?1384873394
I totally agree with margypops.  We have given Obama a chance to show his true character and look where it is leading us.  We are now going to show specific tapes of prisoners being tortured.  Just wait, we were all concerned about our military before, this new info that was released and these tapes, will just cause more harm to our military and country.  I am disgusted with the way that this man cannot seem to keep his sh## together.  What the hell is wrong with you people.  Do you think that getting even with Bush will make things all better?  Bush did many things wrong but to put this country in harms way just to get back at the past administration is wrong.   This is totally a media circus and needs to be stopped.  Our military has fought hard for this country and for the people of Iraq.   Now this country is looking like a big joke to the other countries around the world.  Chavez thought that Obama was a joke.  He does not respect him or anyone.  And of course, we have Pelosi standing up and trying to explain that she did not know that we were waterboarding the terrorists.  She is not very good at lying.  Oh, and she feels bad for the illegal immigrants that are being taken in the middle of the night.  What the heck, if she is so concerned about them then why doesn't she go live with them in their country.  We don't need her in ours.  She is a complete joke.  Obama does not follow the rules that this country made, he follows his own rules.  Remember, he said that he won and he will do what he wants since he is the President.  I guess he was right.  Now we are all going to pay for it.  

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518031_tn?1295578974
Obama has done harm to this country he had a buddy buddy handshake with Chavez...and the way he has put our country down is horrible...and releasing the documents on how we gained info to keep our country safe is sinfull...and any liberals out there i dont care how you all respond or what YOU THINK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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765070_tn?1384873394
amen, Jollyman069.
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285927_tn?1380802356
Well hmmm! I am not liberal, nor am I a bush hater, seeing I voted for the man! Sometimes I think the only reason these topics are posted is to start sh%t.  LISTEN TO YOURSELF, then tell me again what is wrong with this country! C-YA
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580755_tn?1357673215
President Obama is a joke. You take a book from Chavez that is nothing but America bashing, you bow to Saudia Arabia...give me a break.
This is what you get when you elect someone with zero experience. 2012 the republicans better put up someone good to get Obama out of office.

I did not vote for President Obama and do not support a thing that he is doing, but said I would give him a chance and no matter what he has said or done it has been 100% wrong on everything.
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611067_tn?1279065256
I completely agree with you both.  I did not vote for Obama and I said I would give him a chance.  Within the first week of office he signed a couple bills that I was totally against.  One being that we are paying for abortions and birth control for third world countries!  WHAT?  That's not our responsibility.  

As for bowing like he did to the King of Saudi Arabia - what a joke!  The fact that he's only been in office 3 short months and he's already made a deal with Cuba that opens it up for travel, etc. is beyond comprehension to me.  He is doing stuff way too fast and it's going to backfire on us.

I understand that many people think I should give him longer before making these judgments - but I can't!  I believe he's headed in the wrong direction for this country.  As far as taking on the credit card companies - well, I think there's an agenda there too.  Let's see, does our government want to own the credit card companies too?  I'm sorry, but I've never been someone who has been conspiracy ridden, but I gotta tell you this President scares the heck out of me!

As for the interrogations and tortue of terrorists - I have no sympathy for them.  I know that sounds cold, but they are the ones who are ruthless and horrible - cutting people's heads off with dull blades!  I have listened to several military men talk about their roles as interrogators and they explained that they go through the same tortue as part of their training that they give out.  If it's good enough for our troops then it's good enough for the terrorists who want to kill us all. This is a different kind of war and once we all understand that the better off we will be.

So, we all have a right to state what we believe FOR NOW anyway.  I'm not so sure how long that will last.  

As for 2012, I believe this country needs to pull together and stop the two party system - it's broke and hasn't worked in a long time.  It's time to vote an independent in and send a message to those democrats and republicans who think they are above the law.  

We're not all going to agree and so I hope that those who disagree with me can at least respect my right to free speech, like I do yours.  We should be allowed to voice our opinions because once we stop allowing that - we're doomed.
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535822_tn?1389452880
Actually most people in England do bow and curtsey to the Queen....and when you talk of respect they knew the tradition of not touching the queen , all visitors are told the protocol of it before they meet with her , yet Michelle O Bama put her arm around her ,respect? following the rules?Plateletgal . Anyway thats trivia I agree compared to the danger of what he is doing to us., Mellisa .. that pelosi is really somethingof course she knew about water boarding.I have been puzzled why with all our other problems to solve this President seems to want to bring all this up again,first the waterboarding, then yesterday the news he has okayed the releasing of more photos of the illtreatment of other prisoners ,hes out to get the last President any way he can and make America weaker, he has cut Military spending even as N Korea was sending up a Rocket   he said he was going to fix health care but he hasnt even started on it , it was more important to get started on freeing the Gitno prisoners , and freeing the over crowded prisons in LA also making sure Illegal Immigrants get their citizenship,and bring in their relatives,everything he has done in the 100 days has weakened America as his pal said the chickens have come home to roost at least in his eyes.  Well it has to be in our hands in the next 3-4 years, he supposed to be working for us isnt he,  we need to make our voices heard..
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657315_tn?1319494987
Going back to jollyman's original question asking what we thought about how President Obama has portrayed our country to foreign leaders around the world...

It seems like he runs us down any and every chance he gets.  When my kids have "friends" who talk about them behind their backs I tell them that "these are no friends at all."  So I ask all of us:  If he doesn't like the US or the people in the US, WHY did he want to become the President....could he have a bigger agenda...?  
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518031_tn?1295578974
Ireally wanted the President to do well and was willing to give him a chance, but when 4 of his picks for cabinet offices all "forgot" to pay taxes and many more pulled there names from the list because of tax problems...then the UNCONRTOLED spending that they are doing that did it for me..then to go over seas and talk down his own country that he is the Leader of...and that my father and sbrother and son in law risks there lives for, which my son in law was in 4 roadside explosions in Iraq..and is disabled for the rest of his life...the President is no patriot at all now tell me whats wrong with this counrty...bleeding heart liberals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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535822_tn?1389452880
Totally agree jollyman, what can we do except make sure we dont vote him in another term, hope he doesnt do too much damage , he has been racing along to get all this done , the speed of it all makes your head spin and each day something else , I dont think he really likes the America we are.. I think he wants to change America .. remember he was honest  his Motto was' Change' in the election and thats what he is doing.we will be bankrupt and yes some of would have liked to have left something to our grandchildren,not paid it out in Taxes,. We need to demand the minutes on the waterboarding Pelosi wont be the only one who knew, the minutes will tell us ,  There is a legislation being voted on in the House next week ...Hate Crimes, but apparently its hate against the homosexual community ,meaning not wanting to allow homosexual marriage,/ also hate against minorities, but not against US Service personel  who they dont consider have hate crimes perpetrated against them!!
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Avatar_f_tn
"and any liberals out there i dont care how you all respond or what YOU THINK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Lack of respect for your fellow Patriots ? btw... how do you know that I'm a liberal ? Anyhow, since you don't care for fair & intelligent political discussions, I will refrain from posting in this thread again. IMHO, people who turn their heads and disrespect other views, do so because they don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to the debate.

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518031_tn?1295578974
that really breaks my heart
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649848_tn?1357751184
I think Obama has done a lot of harm to our country by apologizing to other countries the way he has, as well as numerous other things he's done.  I did not vote for him because I didn't feel like he was ever working for the best interests of the country and it's citizens.  

So far, he has gotten a spending bill passed that will never allow us to get out of debt.  As my husband put it so simply the other night:  "You can't spend your way out of a recession".  As for health care - I'd love to see everyone have access to affordable health care, but I think the changes have to come from within the health care system, not from the government.  Somehow, the health care industry needs to find ways to reduce costs - not the government trying to figure out a way to pay for it all.  Is 5-7 minutes in a pcp's office REALLY worth $250??  What kind of medicines are worth $50-$100 PER pill??  

The unfortunate thing about our country's economic condition is that those of us who have worked all our lives to get ahead are going to have to pay for Obama's folly in spite of the fact that the $ we struggled to save are no longer worth anything near what they used to be. WE are going have to use OUR hard earned $ to pay for the bad decisions of executives of the car manufacturers, credit card companies, etc. while THEY walk away with billions of $.  

I think we should ALL do everything we can to enjoy our lives as much as possible and get the most from what we have, because when Obama is finished, we will have nothing left - possibly not even our freedom.  I just wonder what "nationality" we will be expected to conform to??  

And WHO is it going to help by trying to prosecute the Bush administration?  I did not like Bush and I don't think he did this country any favors, but at least he wasn't apologizing for "arrogance" and doing his best to make our country look bad to the rest of the world.  

I think Obama is the arrogant one to presume that the American people WANT him to apologize for ANYTHING in our behalf.  I believe that he is evil and is set on destroying our country.  He's hell bent to "do whatever he wants" and I fear that does not bode well for "Main Street"..........  

Don't forget:  The GOVERNMENT doesn't pay for ANYTHING; we working stiffs do.  
  
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535822_tn?1389452880
To answer your original question jollyman I do believe like you he has hurt America a lot, I have never heard a President of the United States apologise to other countries for us nor say we have been derisory and Arrogant, plus other negatives , he rebukes us in that preacher voice, now where did he learn that,at every opportunity, I think we have been weakened and brought down by him, I do think he must have an  agenda of punish and change , I am certain the Dictators like Chavez and Castro and the others are highly amused at his antics,when have you heard them run their countries down On telivision in front of the World.
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585414_tn?1288944902
I don't know. I vote democratic and I am already disappointed with President Obama in this regard as well as some other issues but there is so much going in America that's of concern such as the reccession I don't think we can just sit back and let things pass. I am what you would call middle of the road as regards being a democrat and I got tired of people I knew who were a bit too far left of center who acted like Bush was a dictator and things would automatically improve when he left. I did not appreciate their thinking. But it works the other way as well. If the powers that be in any regard don't do anything to restructure and repair the national economy then there will be a global reccession that may spiral into the depths the great depression did. I look back and I don't believe President Obama will have the ideas that F.D.R. did. Remember F.D.R. pulled us through World War II and did not take disrespect from dictators far more harmful than any we discuss. But regardless of his policies and how we feel about them when he said "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself" to me that applies to all times. If we sit back and wait for things to get worse regards of who is president, then yes our hopes will come true...
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535822_tn?1389452880
I am thinking the same way, if Bush had done to us what OBama has done there would have been an out cry, to me its also a matter of priorities, his arent exactly fixing our economy woes if anything he is making them worse,his main concern seems to be other agendas of appeasing the rest of the World who have been a threat to us. I must say I had a gut feeling but this is way beyond what I had imagined. It is good to air our concerns thank you jollyman for this, we needed it its not all about trivia and games, we have to be able to speak ...free speech or has that been muffled already...
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173939_tn?1333221450
If you see it on a global scale, Obama is doing just the right things, trying to open doors, breaking down crusted structures. He is the right guy at the wrong time though and with the wrong people. Bowing to the King of Saudi Arabia shouldn`t shatter us either. Saudi Arabia silently owns a lot of our economy and steers large global projects and Obama will be quite aware of that.

If this Social Forum represents what all the fellows around me are thinking, I can only say good night. It would have been a great platform for broad discussions but nobody takes advantage of it. You guys need a religious forum where all is about belief, condemnation and patting each other on the back.

Sickening. Bye MH.
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535822_tn?1389452880
So you dont like open discussion and free speech, I agree with you,,, sickening... a social forum is also for folks to discuss and be able to speak freely thats what America is or was about .a social forum is not all about trivia and games.You have got your eyes wide shut if you think OBama is doing all the right thing, I agree with you,  sickening I dont think bowing to the Saudi King was shattering either it was mostly showing us hwre his main values lie.By the way was it also okay he called America Derisory and Arrogant ?
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765070_tn?1384873394
why is it okay for others to basically tear apart Bush and his policies; but when it is pointed back in their direction they cannot take the heat?  Bush did not do many things correctly, but he would have never torn this country apart or spoke badly of the people in America.  See, this is a real problem, Obama has no respect.  Bush did!  I don't really care what they do to the terrorists, they are surely not concerned about our welfare.  As we will definitely see after these tapes are released to the world on May 29.  

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460185_tn?1326081372
I have never made a secret of the fact that I am a leftist, flaming, commie pinko  = )  However, I was greatly disappointed in the President continuing his policies regarding Canadians visiting the USA.  Our borders have been open to each other since Canada and the United States became "nations".  There is a persistent rumor that some of the 9/11 terrorists entered the US through Canada.  Also, I have heard on the news that Canada has to be treated the same as Mexico.  That might be true to some extent since we all belong to NAFTA but Canada and Mexico are very different countries.

Other than that, I rather like and respect President Obama but he is a politician and has a very different public image than G.W. Bush whose policies, I admit, I did not agree with.  IMHO, Obama has to deal with the recession first and other things later.  As an average, non-American citizen do I believe this?  I don't know.  All I or we can do is hope and pray that the war (conflict?) in Afganistan, where many Canadian soldiers have been killed, ends soon and hopefully with support from the USA.  Eventually, the world is going to be a real global village and showing respect is one way to ensure a good beginning.  End of pinko tirade  = )



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585414_tn?1288944902
I would say as a non believer that I respect people's religious beliefs regardless. Its part of the first amendment. I only get upset when someone forces me to believe as I do or condemns me for it but America has a wide spectrum of belief systems as intended by the constitution. I know people from many belief systems and cultures and there is a feeling of mutual respect. Saudi Arabia is a theocracy where people can be killed if they specifically don't follow the laws as enforced by Shariah. The idea of seperation of church and state which is part of the Constitution would be alien to them. I would not respect the leader of Saudi Arabia either. However, I don't think President Obama was the first to do that. George Bush and many other leaders have paid undue respect to the country despite the fact that although officially they are our allies, they are breeding grounds for terrorists, because they are the leading producer of oil. I wouldn't respect Saudi Arabia for their oppression of women alone. Many people that immigrated here from those countries including Afghanistan did so to flee the Taliban and their supporters. Sometimes people do look down on them because they are Islamic but they came to America for the same religious freedoms that other people appreciate and to flee oppression.
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Avatar_f_tn
"However, I don't think President Obama was the first to do that."

ILADVOCATE is right. For those people who really want all of the facts, check out the video clip below of George W. Bush and King Abdullah. They hold hands and it almost looks as if they were kissing !  ; ^ )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjtfaLtLT7s
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483733_tn?1326802046
I am a Canadian and can say that the majority of Canadians were very pleased to have Obama visit us and to be so open and friendly when here.  I do believe he is trying to get the lay of the land and is being diplomatic in all  his initial dealings.  Remember the old saying that you get more bees with honey.  He may just be killing with kindness.  Give him some time.
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460185_tn?1326081372
Trudie - I agree with you.  Did you see the interview on TV with Obama and Peter Mansbridge when Obama was first elected?  Mansbridge was so over-awed and deferential to him.  I don't know where in Canada you are but there was a real Obama craze here in Toronto and students from around here bussed to Ottawa when he visited our PM.  He is a charismatic President IMHO but I still never really trust politicians.

Jollyman - Your initial question about bowing to the king of Arabia, just my opinion but I thought the President showed respect, dignity and gave the appearance of being open minded without committing himself to anything.  It might be completely different but in the martial arts we bow to our opponents but never take our eyes off him/her in case they decide to fight dirty.  Maybe that's what Obama was doing.




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535822_tn?1389452880
It seems obvious to me from the posts above that you in Canada dont get all the news of what is happening here,the things you have all picked out are the small good details none of you have mentioned the big picture of what he is doing to us,  the Imigration laws , the economy , taxes, the providing pictures of water boarding and the memos of this nor do any mention if its okay to call your country demeaning names to the Europeans, does your President/prime Minister go abroad and call you derisory... apologise for you.. call you arrogant? 12-15 Million illegal people here are being given the fast track to citizenship, no green card ..straight through then they will bring their family whilst some of us wait years to do it legally. Forgetting the bowing to the Saudi king what about the Chavez debackle / Castro , Noriegga , he has cut the Military spending just as N Korea sent off a rocket .never mind his consilatory words to that looney in Iran,,So you all think America is as strong as it was , that would make a thread in itself.
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460185_tn?1326081372
I guess we don't get very good reception for watching the news.  The satellite on our igloos  isn't too good  = )

What did Obama say that was derogatory and apologetic.  Do you have a website or URL that would enlighten us?

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535822_tn?1389452880
Oh I didnt know you lived in an Igloo sounds cold, how do you stop it melting?lol  sorry I digress. I see I assumed  a lot, you do have the internet, maybe News is not as Important as here we do watch it a lot,   he went to Europe and in one of his many many speeches said That America was arrogant, derisory , he apologised to Europe and the world for America exact words elude me and I dont have a tape to hand but it cant be difficult to find one with his speeches on. You are on the internet now so you must be able to google it in for the web site I guess put in President O Bama"s speech to the Summit and Europe, there were several on his trip there. This is the problem I feel a lot of people are not realising what is happening here, some of the media are biased and even CNN .Try putting in Glen Beck.com he has been trying to be moderate but lately has been concerned for us. Read the other posts here you have their opinion also.
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460185_tn?1326081372
We keep the igloo from melting by using air conditioning all the time or by doing repairs with whale blubber  = )

I'll try to find a website to see what he said.  IMHO certain elements of American policy are arrogant and derogatory.  I don't mind at all if you disagree - differing opinions can be given in a respectful way  = )




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535822_tn?1389452880
I agree that differing opinions can be given in a respectful way, I disagree with you about America .. respectfully..remember whatever is said about us here.. is it a good thing that our President says them to the worl,d at the Summit I think thats what hurt us,    I would not even have thought an igloo had electricity, I will google this it sounds very interesting ,to be very honest I always thought that the native (may I say it ) Eskimo's, Inuits? lived in regular houses now and the old traditional way of life had changed.
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460185_tn?1326081372
This is way off topic - one of my numerous faults.  Not many Inuit live in igloos anymore.  Both they and Native people do live in houses.  Depending on the reserve, the houses can be quite nice or really awful.  Those living in the far north, get satellite, travel by usually four wheel drive vehicles or snowmobiles.  Those of us who are not living on the reserve just have houses like everyone else.  The traditional life has changed more for some than for others.  We can keep it alive through ceremonies, etc. but it will never be like it was 400-500 yrs ago.

I think the President did the right thing.  By publicly announcing America's "faults", he has effectively stopped any genuine anti-USA sentiment from having much impact.  Instead of hiding things under the rug, he has brought them into the open.  However, I doubt if the average citizen knows everything that is going on.


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535822_tn?1389452880
I do respect your opinion however..I disagree, I think as I said if any countries Leader came out swinging saying negatives about his country ,that country would not be too happy,but when have you heard it possibly during.ww11. isnt it always the case of walking in the other shoes,what is he hiding under the rug? he could have talked about the great impact America has always had on the rest of the world, our help to the allies, he wouldnt even visit the American War Graves in Normandy when asked to go by the French President...well I am off for tea,, have a nice day .
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Avatar_f_tn
I agree with you in what you said about bringing things into the open.  Nothing was solved hiding it or denying it.  

Change comes with courage to take the necessary steps....starts with truth and a willingness to take the steps & work cooperatively together.

Not an easy time, but others say that history is replete with such times.  It is a time where accountability needs to be shouldered by those responsible for this mess along with facing what has been done.

My take on Obama is that he is bringing his ideals/wisdom and willingness to bring the parties together into the job he has undertaken.  He has a "freshness" in his candor that we were starving for.  

:-]
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649848_tn?1357751184
Are you 'starving' to become even more socialist than we've already become?  Are you 'starving' to start paying out more of your wages/salary for those who refuse to work?  Are you "starving" to foot the bill for the tremendous bail out of the financial industry?  Are you "starving" to have taxes raised to cover the trillion $ budget that just passed?  *I'M* not "starving for any of those things, so I will gladly hand over MY share to YOU..........  

Sorry, I don't mean to sound rude, but bringing ideals/wisdom?  Ideals, he might have; wisdom - I don't think so.  He's only 40 something and has never had a "real job" in his life, he has no real concept of the "Main Street" he is so fond of pretending to help.  "freshness" in his candor, when he put us all down in front of the whole world???  Quite frankly, *I* don't appreciate being called arrogant - that's not "candor" - that's a put down and you can have my share of THAT too because *I* resent it.  You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you need to take a good look at what is happening.  
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It always has to come down to party line! I totally agree with you Wolf! Well said! Dazon too.  As far as being socialistic. Well, the verdict is out on that, but if it had worked the OTHER way, we would not be having this discussion. This is not a give your opinion post. It is a name calling, putting down anyone that does think Obama is doing something right.  Start bashing! I voted for the man, am glad I did and am neither dem or repub. I happen to be independant, and I voted for Bush and still have great respect for him also.  If I had all the answers, I would be president now would I not? So, if this makes me a liberal then I am proud to be called an Independent, Liberal, self thinking, American. Since I do not agree with some of you, and you obviously do not agree with me, maybe the name of this should be Obama bashers Only Please!  I will say no more. Except! You folks have a downright earthy debate about who is right and who is wrong and time will tell the tale.  Nite all!
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something to make all laugh no matter who you voted for:


What Is Politics?

A little boy goes to his dad and asks, "What is politics?"

Dad says, "Well son, let me try to explain it this way: I'm the breadwinner of the family, so let's call me capitalism. Your Mom, she's the administrator of the money, so we'll call her the Government. We're here to take care of your needs, so we'll call you the people. The nanny, we'll consider her the Working Class. And your baby brother, we'll call him the Future. Now, think about that and see if that makes sense,"

So the little boy goes off to bed thinking about what dad had said.

Later that night, he hears his baby brother crying, so he gets up to check on him. He finds that the baby has severely soiled his diaper. So the little boy goes to his parents' room and finds his mother sound asleep. Not wanting to wake her, he goes to the nanny's room. Finding the door locked, he peeks in the keyhole and sees his father in bed with the nanny. He gives up and goes back to bed. The next morning, the little boy says to his father, "Dad, I think I understand the concept of politics now."

The father says, "Good son, tell me in your own words what you think politics is all about."

The little boy replies, "Well, while Capitalism is screwing the Working Class, the Government is sound asleep, the People are being ignored and the Future is in deep poo."

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Done some research here is the speech    http;//www.whitehouse.gov/blog/09/04/03/A-Town-Hall-Strasbourg/   Sorry I didnt have it to hand earlier. This is the one where The President of the United States puts his country down....something I have never heard a Leader do before,
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Oh yeah, and we cannot forget the blunders that each candidate made:

Biden:
"Stand up, Chuck, let 'em see ya." –-Joe Biden, to Missouri state Sen. Chuck Graham, who is in a wheelchair, Columbia, Missouri, Sept. 12, 2008

McCain:
"You know that old Beach Boys song, Bomb Iran? Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran."

Obama:
"I've now been in 57 states -- I think one left to go." --at a campaign event in Beaverton, Oregon

and of course we cannot forget
Palin:
"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where– where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border."
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Thank you Melissa.. some how puts it in to humorous perspective ..I think Lol
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I want to thank everyone who posted on this subject...I didn't expect this many responses, but i am glad we have this many. Some may think i take this too personal but when the reputation of our country is on the line i do take it personally. I don't think anyone should talk bad or down about our country. Especially the President of the United States.. He feels that bad about our country then why run for Presidnet? I am sorry if some  don't like my feelings on this but Obama has hurt our country and has other countries thinking 'hey the President doesn't even like his own country, so why shoule we"?...It is a sad day for this nation...anyway again thanks for all the thoughts
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Thank you jollyman for airing this for us we shouldnt be afraid to be able to do this on an open forum  after all we arent a Nation of Cowards like to new attorney General said we were a few weeks ago,I and many others as you have read are troubled in the same way you are....Dont be sorry you showed you care by voicing it,,,
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".....Obama's overall rating remains high, with 69 percent of Americans approving of his job performance. He gets solid marks for his handling of the economy, maintaining a better-than-2-to-1 advantage over congressional Republicans on the issue. Majorities said that Obama has exceeded their expectations in his first three months in office, has accomplished big things and has kept his main campaign promises. Further, public optimism about the economy and the country's direction also remain on the rise since his election, even as few think his major economic initiatives have moved the needle on the nation's flagging economy, their communities or their finances.

Nearly two-thirds said Obama has accomplished "a great deal" or "a good amount" in his first three months in office. In a Post-ABC poll at the 100-day mark in Clinton's first term, 37 percent said he had done that much. A majority, 54 percent, also said Obama had exceeded their expectations, significantly more than had said so of Clinton or Bush at the outset of their first terms."

AP reports basically the same numbers;

Fox News Poll:

"...As Barack Obama closes in on his first 100 days as president, majorities of Americans approve of the job he is doing, are satisfied with what he has accomplished so far and think he is keeping his promises, according to a FOX News poll released Friday.

Obama's job approval rating comes in at 62 percent, down just three points from the 65 percent approval he received after his first week in office. Twenty-nine percent of Americans disapprove.

In addition, most people say Obama is doing a better job than they expected (26 percent) or meeting expectations (56 percent). Few say he is doing worse than expected (16 percent)...."

"Opinion Dynamics Corp. conducted the national telephone poll of 900 registered voters for FOX News from April 22 to April 23. The poll has a 3-point error margin.

The poll also finds that 73 percent think Obama is honest and trustworthy, up from 60 percent in October 2008. Furthermore, more people today see Obama as a "doer" (43 percent) than a "talker" (30 percent), a reversal from pre-election polling when more people saw him as a talker (49 percent) rather than a doer (34 percent).

Foreign policy is the area where voters say the administration has done its best so far. Coming in a close second is the economy, which is also the area where the most voters say the administration has done its worst.

Things Are Getting Better
Most Americans -- 69 percent -- say they are satisfied with what Obama has accomplished in his first 100 days, and 57 percent think he is keeping the promises he made during the campaign."

Two-thirds of those polled approve of how Obama is handling international affairs in general, up slightly from last month, just before he embarked on his first European trip. Majorities of Americans also approve of how he is handling health care, global warming, taxes and Cuba, four areas in which the administration has tried to stake new ground in its first few months.

But Obama receives less glowing reviews on his handling of the burgeoning federal budget deficit and on immigration issues, where he is at the 50 percent mark, and he gets a negative rating on how he has dealt with the big U.S. automakers.

Beyond specific policy areas, Obama continues to get high personal favorability ratings across a range of attributes. Overall, 72 percent of Americans have a favorable impression of the new president, down slightly from the eve of his inaugural but far higher than it was during the 2008 campaign. It is also about double Bush's favorability rating when he left office in January (37 percent) and above where Bill Clinton's was at this stage in 1993 (59 percent)...."
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Lol LOl
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During WWII Japanese soldiers commonly tortured U.S. POW's by using physical force and water boarding.

When American Soldiers caught a Japanese soldier who was guilty of these torture tactics, that Japanese soldier was commonly found guilty and SHOT IN SIGHT.

Why is it that we are showing such forbearance towards these crimes now?

What has changed in the essential moral character of America from then to now that we would even consider allowing anyone to get away with this behavior, especially our American Leaders?
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argh...that's "Shot on Sight". teach me to type without wearing my glasses. :-)
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It may strike you as funny and you are free to disbelieve the numbers but since the Fox results aren't much different from the ABC/Washington Post or the AP poll that would seem a stretch.
I posted this because I thought it would be interesting to contrast a random sampling of Americans with the predominant consensus here. There does appear to be a rather wide gap between many of the members here and those Americans sampled.
Maybe it's all a big conspiracy among Fox, The Washington Post, ABC news and the Associated Press.
And then again it might just be valid and Obama is a popular president in the most difficult of times.
It's 100 days and you're pontificating about how a handshake or a smile or Michele putting her arm around the queen might affect our image abroad or make us less safe. It's been 100 days! Bush was in office 7+ months when we were hit on 9/11. He had intelligence warning of an attack but he didn't take is seriously. If something - God forbid - happened now you'd blame Obama in a heartbeat but Bush at 7+ months was doing a good job.
Savas,
I happen to agree with you. In the face of all that needs serious attention I don't like the idea of getting bogged down in an investigation, a truth commission or a trial. But, can we just sweep torture under the rug? I think we have to deal with this issue thoroughly and openly as unpleasant as that would be.
It appears as though to some people what's good for the goose is not good (or even relevant) for the gander.

Mike
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While it may not be reflected on this forum, it seems that the general consensus is that Obama's first 100 days have been pretty well received.  These are such extraordinarily difficult times - let's give the man a chance!
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We have obviously listening and hearing differant news and concensus,I have heard nothing but concern about his extremism from Fox news. The rest of the Media have always been pro OBama so the Polls from them are hardly surprising. You are correct when you say I disbelieve  I notice you only mention Polls the rest of it doesnt concern, 12-15 Million Illegal people getting immediate citizenship.to get their votes in 3-4 years .politics.Prisons including Gitmo allowing criminals out we are getting it right now in CA, ,even if you discount his negative speaking at the summit about America ,which other Leader have you heard do that?.Disrespect by Neapolitano about our vets,,he ignored that, 5 of his people on his team are are tax evaders.I guess the huge burden of taxes he is dumping us with doesnt matter a jot nor bankrupting us way into the future..no I do not believe the stuff you posted here the folks had an agenda as he has.
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"12-15 Million Illegal people getting immediate citizenship.to get their votes in 3-4 years .politics."

It is important to remember that many of these illegals entered our country on Bush's watch. If Bush cared so much about national security, why didn't he do more to protect our borders ? And why did he want a Saudi Arabia company to secure OUR ports ? Speaking of which, Saudi Arabia was never on his stupid "Axis of Evil" list.

Anyhow, back to the illegal immigration issue. McCain and Bush, along with Obama all wanted amnesty. Mitt Romney only wanted amnesty for illegal immigrants from Cuba. Why ? Because Cubans tend to vote Republican.
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First of all, the polls are out there but remember Obama doesn't follow the polls.  He does not use those to see how he is doing.  Do any of you remember getting a poll on How the President is doing?  I sure don't.  Seems that even Fox chooses who should be in the polls.  This is not even relevant considering most Americans have not even participated in it.  
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All of the various media have been extremely biased in Obama's favor since very early in the campaign. I'm sure they would choose groups or areas for their polls that would most likely favor Obama.  Most everyday people have NOT been chosen to participate in any of their polls.

I would not trust any of their polls.
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I know Bush wanted an amnesty but it didnt get passed did it it is.. now it is happening before the end of this year..he gets their vote to keep him in office,.No I didnt get a Poll on how the President is doing,... not relevant at all.
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I would trust the media on either end. Statistics can be easily manipulated. If the statistics are regarding the support of the president the question is who did they interview and how. None of the media is completely unbiased. A fair amount is conservative such as Fox News and some such as the New York Times is liberal. The New York Times assumed Obama would be elected before he won. So either side could interview their own readers who would have their particular opinions. People really have to make up their own mind. I tend not to trust the media on either side. I am an independent thinker.
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Polls Shmolls !!
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Washington Post-ABC News Poll

This Washington Post-ABC News poll was conducted by telephone April 21-24, 2009, among a random national sample of 1,072 adults using both conventional and cellular phones. The sample included additional interviews with randomly-selected African Americans, for a total of 163 black respondents; these interviews (commonly referred to as an “oversample”) were completed to ensure there were enough respondents for separate analysis, and the group is not over-represented in the reported results. The results from the full survey have a margin of sampling error of plus or minus three percentage points. Sampling, data collection and tabulation by TNS of Horsham, Pa.


Fox News

Polling was conducted by telephone April 22 - 23, 2009, in the evenings.
The total sample is 900 registered voters nationwide with a margin of error of
±3 percentage points. Results are of registered voters, unless otherwise noted.
LV = likely voters
Democrats n = 375, ±5; Republicans n = 270, ±6; independents n = 194, ±7
Obama voters n= 477, ±4.5; McCain voters n= 303, ±6
Sample A = 460, ±5 and Sample B = 440, ±5



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Mikesimon,

So what you are saying is that about 2000 people took the poll out of 300 million in the USA!!

Quite a poll.  
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Wow 2000   I rest my case...
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Melissa wrote:

"So what you are saying is that about 2000 people took the poll out of 300 million in the USA!!
Quite a poll."

From:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_poll

If the statistic is a percentage, this maximum margin of error can be calculated as the radius of the confidence interval for a reported percentage of 50%. Others suggest that a poll with a random sample of 1,000 people has margin of sampling error of 3% for the estimated percentage of the whole population. A 3% margin of error means that if the same procedure is used a large number of times, 95% of the time the estimate will be within 3% of the population average. The margin of error can be reduced by using a larger sample, however if a pollster wishes to reduce the margin of error to 1% they would need a sample of around 10,000 people. In practice pollsters need to balance the cost of a large sample against the reduction in sampling error and a sample size of around 500-1,000 is a typical compromise for political polls.
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I forgot to mention: "I rest my case".
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Thank you, Mike.  Very few who post on this board understand how polls are interpreted.  
The poll conducted on November 4 was convincing to me.  

jd

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I am and can't ever imagine not being a flaming, pinko, commie, socialist.  I have no problem with other people not sharing those beliefs and hope that we can all respect each others opinions.  Just read in passing a comment about statistics and polls.  Statistics can be manipulated very, very easily.  Same with polls.  We don't know what questions were asked, who asked them, how the the questioners "appear" to the respondents, etc.  We also don't know who interpreted the raw data.  I know stats and polls can be manipulated because I've done it and seen it done.  What else would anyone expect from a pinko  = )


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I agree - the polls and the statistics can be manipulated to show almost anything the person(s) running the polls want them to look.  You are very right in that we really know nothing about the poll itself, including who interpreted the raw data.  I think in one way or another, most of us have manipulated statistics in one way or another.  Their polls really mean nothing when you stop and think about it.  

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I wouldn't trust Fox News if they told me my mother was on fire and she was standing right in front of me.

Bill O'Reilly is a disgrace to the News and the rest of fox...

they did a report on the Canadian withdrawal from Iraq that was SO insulting it was embarrassing for me to watch (as an American).

I understand their are liberal oriented news sources out their as well that are so biased as to be reporting on fantasy. But Fox is a major News Network.

Their kind of fictionalized news we can do without.

Oh, did anyone catch their coverage of the Republican Analysis of the Obama Administration's projected budget debt based on their budget plans?

When they had the graphs up showing the figures and how they'd be monstrously damaging to the economy I did a double take because the graph looked so familiar.


Turns out it was actually the graph based on the figures that came from George Bush's projected economic budget should it continue for the next four years (with McCain as president).

Classic Fox... it was good for quite a chuckle. :->
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The bottom line is, (unless that was manipulated also) the majority voted in a president in Nov.  Not to mention the fact of the conversation about disrespecting our country, the very same disrespect is being shown for the president of the united states. The man is the president and where I come from you stand behind him and do not dis him. That is also disrespectful. Not that I agree with anything that was said on that note, however, if you talk respect and disrespect, I was raised to believe that you do not openly trash the highest office in the land. Wow, times sure have changed.
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I'm not trashing him - I simply don't like/trust/respect him.  So far, he has done me or anyone else no favors.  

He has disrespected all of us AND our country in so many ways.  There are those veterans, whose graves he refused to visit, who fought for our right to say whatever we please about him. Although he didn't die in WWII, my father was one of those veterans who fought for our right to even HAVE a discussion like this.   Let's just hope we don't lose that right any time soon. I fear it won't be too long.  
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Could someone please show me the quote from Obama that says he didn't wish to visit the grave sites because he feared offending the Germans? I did a google search and couldn't find a single quote from the White House.

I find this reasoning highly unlikely. As a WWII buff, it frankly doesn't make sense. More likely it was a political decision not to "follow in Bush's footsteps" by repeating an action he took.

Considering how the German people feel (respect) about the American soldiers of that war, Obama fearing to offend them strikes me as far fetched.
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O Bama  didnt say it the French president asked him to visit the  American War Cemetary  in Normandy and the answer was No, all the Presidents when visiting France go to the American Cemetary in Normandy nothing to do with Bush, they are our guys buried there,.they were killed during the D. Day invasion, of Normandy, . I will see if I can google it and let you know the site , it was a big topic in the French /European newspapers.also here on some of the news .
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Here is the site its long as usual..I googled President O Bama skips visit to American Ar Cemetary Omaha Beach in Normandy ........     News.aol.com/politicalmachine/2009/04/08/obama-skips-visit-to-normandy-american-cemetary/-68k-      There are a few articles about it, including the Daily Telgraph's comments, it is a very reputable English Rag .
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Yes I would agree that was disrespecful and I had a grandfather just pass on who had been a WWII Vet. I believe in respecting your elders and I had many older members of the family who defended our country in World War II and I asked them a lot about it. One of them had been in the 10th Mountain Division. Politicians always make political blunders. This one does not show President Obama in a favorable light but I was outraged as a young person when Ronald Reagan visited Bitburg. That was a group of veterans from the other side of World War II that never should have been honored. As for the war in the middle east in gradually backing out of Iraq and increasing the war in Afghanistan and expanding into Pakistan I believe that's what Bush would have done and President Obama is carrying on with some his plans and some of his advisors as well. I can't say what the right thing to do is. I'd prefer if we back out of the area entirely but it would be unrealistical to do so. The war has to be concluded with the Taliban having a clear loss but as they are fanatics that are willing to accept death I don't see any defined end to the war. I would feel we'd benefit from not depending on foreign oil but I know its more complicated than that. Given the amount of state secrets which are neccessary perhaps we'll never know what happenned in full until decades later.
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Lot of truth in what you say , thank you.
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I have lived long enough to see that some things that have hurt us far more (wage with job losses (outsourcing), trickle down economics evaporating......) The list is long and I have spent some time reading various viewpoints as to how america has changed considerably in the past 40 years.  Obama, for better or worse, is our President and has more candor with being "open" than Bush in his whole Presidency of 8 yrs.  We are dealing with the fallout from him as well as others before.

We need to give time/support.  We can write to our representatives to voice agreements/disagreement/ideas for solving problems to contribute.  That is still allowed, a nice freedom we have yet.  The socialistic leanings were already there.  Corporations have had more power than the individual.  Programs that helped individuals were sacrificed on various altars and the crime, etc. amongst various sectors is evident.  I could look at any paper in the U.S.A. that has larger populations and see the woes with crime, job losses, etc.  We cannot pin this on Obama.  

I am glad we can share our views openly.

thanks,
Dazon50
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It's not necessarily a matter of "pinning" anything on Obama.  The argument is that he is disrespecting us to the rest of the world, he has disrespected those who died for our (and his) freedom and whether or not he started "the mess we are in" - he is doing nothing useful to get us out.  Why support someone who is only digging the hole deeper.

As I stated in a post further up this thread:  You can't spend your way out of a recession.  And that's exactly what Obama is trying to do.  

Somewhere along the line we are all going to have to pay higher taxes in order to get out of this mess, if that's even possible at this time.  My husband and I have worked our tails off for the last 43 years in order to get our family raised and save enough to have a nice retirement - well, guess what????  It's very unlikely that either of us will be retiring any time soon......  

Again, I'm not "pinning" anything on Obama - what I AM pinning on him is the insistence that more spending is going to help.  I have to live within MY budget, why shouldn't the govt have to?  And if I want something that I can't afford, I have to save my $ until I CAN afford it.............................  He's already proven that he can't be trusted.  
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At this presant time we who are living 70 miles away  are asking him to close the borders ,the folks are pouring in to get away from the Swine flu, 'Please Mr President close down our Borders" respect Americans if you can ...
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Ah, I see what you're talking about.

It should be noted that Obama intends to visit Normandy on the D-Day Anniversary in June. considering a president's time is limited, it would be understandable he wouldn't go during this visit (when he had no intention of doing so).

Also, we should see this for what it really is; a political play by the French President to gain special access to Obama as well as appear to "come out ahead" of Germany and England during his Presidential Visit.

France has been hostile towards America for some time now and Obama must be VERY wary with our French "Ally".

Sarkozy should be ashamed...but he isn't. He is French, after all. :->
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I find nothing disrespectful about voicing my opinions and free speech!!!  I also find nothing disrepectful in my opinions of how I think Obama is doing as President.  I also found fault with many of Bush's policies as well and voiced those too.  As Americans, it's our job to make it known what we want and don't want from our politicians - THEY WORK FOR US!  There is no disrespect in that!  I wonder where the outrage was when Bush was called "stupid," a "moron," and much worse by our media and people in this country?  I haven't heard anyone call Obama those things even in this thread.  What they have stated is their concern for him apologizing to the world for our behavior!  WHAT?  If you look back in history you will find that we are the first to help when a disaster hits - Europe wouldn't be what it is today without us!  But, we're arrogant.  We're the ones to have the finger pointed at us.  It's been said over and over even by other nations that Americans give to charities across the world more than any other people!  Yup, we're arrogant and could care less about others!  How many of our men and women have lost their lives to help other nations!  Millions!!!  So, please do not preach to me about respect!  Our President crossed the line and that's all their is too it!
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Echo every word you you just posted, you are right if Bush had done a fraction of the things this President has rushed around doing he would have been blagarded by the drive by press,"It should be noted OBama only decided to go in June to Normandy AFTER all the furor and speculation he got from the Europeans when he refused to visit when he was at the summit.It WAS NOT planned before ......At least Sarkosy had some good things to say about America which is more than our own leader did . I have been to the Cemetary in Normandy it takes a very short flight from Strasbourg to get there......
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AMEN.  
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He's the president.  He has important work to do.  If you are dissatisfied that he did not visit a cemetary that he will visit soon in honor of D Day, get over it.  Its irrelevant that you have been there yourself.  Winge and whine over it all you want, its still irrelevant.
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Speaking of the 100 days in office, did anyone hear about that painting that will be revealed then? The one showing Obama wearing a crown of thorns, arms outstretched, looking exactly like Christ? Talk about freaky. You know he'd have to have approved that painting. Does someone have a Messiah complex? For more info on it go to boogieman's journal called "This is scary". Yes, it is.
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jd   Lol Lol ....I have just seen it yes it is a bit strange and not too respectful ..
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I wish people wouldn't view any president that way. That's why we elect a president and other countries have dictatorships. We should respect our leaders not deify them. On any side.
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dont count your chickens ...they may come home to roost...
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I would agree with that and whatever side we are on politically we have support the troops as well and hope that they come home safely and that any war we fight is to support America and its best interest. Frankly I should not be the one to comment as I have never been involved in this way (due to my physical disability) but I well respect people who have and although I've spoken to them and known them could not imagine what they face. Its really close to impossible to deal with terrorists who are an active threat to our nation and what is looking to be a global reccession if our political views continue to clash because the less we as Americans support each other the more we are vulnerable and also are thought of as less by other countries.
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"If you are dissatisfied that he did not visit a cemetary that he will visit soon in honor of D Day, get over it"

I agree, if you do not like it/him/his you may always jump the fence over to another country and go see if you agree with their leaders for a while.  Personally I find it more disrepectful to talk badly about the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES than for people who are hardly scholars from Ivy League schools to guess about whether or not he bowed far enough for their taste. If the President attempted to visit every single shrine in Europe/Asia/Australia and Zimbabwe - how could he ever really accomplish as much as he has in his first 100 days?

The USA has been considered the big bad bull dog which has abused other nations with fake WMDs and Waterboarding for the last decade - it is time to extend an olive branch with manners and dignity and work towards a solution to some of the things we have in common and the rest of the world seems to agree.

Good show Mr. President.
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"abused other nations with fake WMDs and Waterboarding for the last decade". Please tell me what nations were abused...do you mean Iraq? Where Saddam used WMD's on his own people? Is that what you are talking about? Do you want history on Iraq?

Waterboarding is not torture. Simple as that.
If you want someone to talk to dictators and bargin with them, then you simply know nothing about history.
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Let us just be honest here.... okay ? Waterboarding is considered to be torture by a wide range of authorities, including legal experts, politicians, war veterans, intelligence officials, military judges and human rights organizations. The U.S. State Department has recognized "submersion of the head in water" as torture in other circumstances, for example, in its 2005 Country Report on Tunisia.

So knowing this, let's just answer the question:

Do you support torturing alleged terrorists ?

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My father was in WW2. He kept all his gear from the war. He had pics that depicted men hung naked on poles with their ppppenis cut off and sewn into their mouths. This was done before they died.  Now, what is torture?  I think in times of war, at least back then, anything went.
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Looking back I am really sorry i started this thread...we have gotten way off subject....again i am sorry....brian
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Did he respect us The American people when he spoke at the summit isnt it meant to be both ways I thought it was We the People, to get respect you have to earn it ........
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You're right and that is why the U.S. is supposed to be above torture and why we helped set the standards for the Geneva Convention protocols. We know that history repeats itself and we wanted to learn from the lessons from the past and not repeat those mistakes again.
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I suspect that was bound to happen a pandoras box opens,  .we are still allowed free speech ,at the presant time.
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"Waterboarding is not torture. Simple as that. "

Well no wonder you are not against it then.  I assume your experiences were pleasant?



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Lol ... I think that one was thrown at you Vance,heres my twopenneth.. truthfully I do think we learned a lot of information and I doubt if too many of the relatives who lost some family on 9-11 really care, if it kept us safe later,, I didnt loose anyone in 9-11 but I sure as hell wouldnt care what they did to someone who had been involved that day, hang ,draw,and quarter them I say... torture ...nay too good for em.I believe in Capital punishment that'll be the next thing to go..well we can always pop them in Prisons then let them out a couple of years later as is happening here in LA
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I have watched a couple men who were interrogators for the military be interviewed on television. They said our own military goes through waterboarding as part of their training if they are to be interrogators and from what I understand our Navy Seals go through it.  It's one of those things where if we're going to use it for interrogation purposes than our troops need to know what it feels like.  So, if it's good enough for our troops it's good enough for terrorists!  Someone told me once that they were instructed to waterboard their own commander and when he started to beg for mercy they stopped and he chewed their butts out stating that that would get them killed in the field.  

Terrorists are a different breed.  This is NOT a regular war.  
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When these terrorists can drag dead naked Americans through the streets I think waterboarding isn't enough.

As far as Obama....no reason for a discussion....he is disgracing himself every time he opens his mouth...CHANGE.....Change for the worse, in my opinion.
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To paraphrase Thomas More, I give my enemy benefit of law for my own safety's sake.
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nygirl:

First of all, you find that we are disrespectful to the President for not agreeing with what he is doing but find it ok to disrespect us for our opinions.  I really do not think that it takes an ivy league degree to see what the President and others are doing to take our rights and values away.  

Your comment:
"I agree, if you do not like it/him/his you may always jump the fence over to another country and go see if you agree with their leaders for a while"

You really need to watch what you say because the one person that you were talking to has come to this country to make a good life for herself.  She came many years ago from a socialized country.  She became a citizen of this great country for the fact that this country allows each and everyone  to have rights and values if we so choose;  Without Government interaction.  So, we will continue to fight for our rights and if you do not agree that is fine.  But, do not tell us that we have to move just because we disagree with what is going on.  This country was founded on freedom and those are trying to be taken away.  

Respect is earned and he has not show respect to anyone but those who agree with his policies.  Once he learns to respect others opinions as well as change policies to suit many rather than just one set of views, then he will earn my respect.  For now, he continues to put others down and use his power to manipulate all who follow him.
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Terrorists do not follow the laws of war like a normal country does!  When will everyone understand this!  THIS IS NOT A REGULAR WAR!!!!
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I wasn't going to post any more on this thread because I think it has gotten into what I would consider "a battle of wills" or a stalemate.  We have those who do not like/trust/respect/support Obama (yep, I fit into that category) and we do still have that right, although I fear we won't be able to express our views too much longer.  

We also have those who think he doing a great job - yep, I fit into THAT category too, because he IS doing a great job of disrespecting me, my parents and siblings who fought in the various wars and our whole country and spending my (our) hard earned money.  

There also is another category who TRULY thinks he's doing a great job for them and our country and that EVERYTHING he does is in THEIR best interest.  They are entitled to that opinion, also and I can only hope that THEY are the ones that are right.  Somehow, I suspect that when THEIR taxes skyrocket and THEY don't get anything when the "wealth is spread around", that they won't still think he's doing a great job.  

Think about it - SOMEONE has to pay for this $3 trillion budget, the health care reform that is going to guarantee medical care for ALL of us, continuing wars and whatever other "whims" come up - who is it that's going to do that???  The money isnt' going to mysteriously appear from no where.  If you are currently working at a job (as I and my husband do), trust me, folks, it's going to be US.  WE are going to pay and don't believe anyone who says all this "free stuff" can be yours without raising taxes or that it won't "cost you anything".  

It just can't happen without the working people, and look how many people aren't working these days because of legitimate things like illness, retirement, lay-offs, etc.   You have to admit that makes the burden on the rest of us, that much greater.  And before anyone goes off on me - I'm not downing anyone not working for legitimate reasons.  

Just remember - when "it comes from the government - *I* helped pay for it and so did YOU, if you pay taxes".  I (we) didn't have a say as to whether or not it is/was necessary.  MY budget amounts to what my employer will pay me and I have to live with that amount of $.  If I can't, I go into debt and if I get into more debt than I can pay back, I go bankrupt. I can stay afloat for a while by borrowing more, but when no one will lend me more - what then?  Eventually I'm going to have to "pay up or shut up".  Simple economics.........  Why should our federal government not have to do the same??  

Jollyman - you posted a question and you've gotten, probably more than you bargained for, but a pretty good idea of what people think.  Don't feel bad for that. Just be glad that right now, you still have the right to ask that question and we still have the right to debate it.  

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Thank you for trying to bring some clarity and reason to a rubbish heap of a thread.
I can't recall seeing so much nonsense in one place.

Not that any sane person would need any further evidence of what waterboarding is nut here is some anyway.

Bent Sørensen, Senior Medical Consultant to the International Rehabilitation Council for Torture Victims and former member of the United Nations Committee Against Torture has said:

    It's a clear-cut case: Waterboarding can without any reservation be labeled as torture. It fulfils all of the four central criteria that according to the United Nations Convention Against Torture (UNCAT) defines an act of torture. First, when water is forced into your lungs in this fashion, in addition to the pain you are likely to experience an immediate and extreme fear of death. You may even suffer a heart attack from the stress or damage to the lungs and brain from inhalation of water and oxygen deprivation. In other words there is no doubt that waterboarding causes severe physical and/or mental suffering – one central element in the UNCAT's definition of torture. In addition the CIA's waterboarding clearly fulfills the three additional definition criteria stated in the Convention for a deed to be labeled torture, since it is 1) done intentionally, 2) for a specific purpose and 3) by a representative of a state – in this case the US.[1
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All nations that are signatory to the United Nations Convention Against Torture have agreed they are subject to the explicit prohibition on torture under any condition. This was affirmed by Saadi v. Italy in which the European Court of Human Rights, on February 28, 2008, upheld the absolute nature of the torture ban by ruling that international law permits no exceptions to it.[130][131] The treaty states "No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat of war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture".[132] Additionally, signatories of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights are bound to Article 5, which states, "No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment".[133] Many signatories of the convention have made specific declarations and reservations regarding the interpretation of the term "torture" and restricted the jurisdiction of its enforcement.[134] However, UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Louise Arbour, stated on the subject "I would have no problems with describing this practice as falling under the prohibition of torture", and that violators of the UN Convention Against Torture should be prosecuted under the principle of universal jurisdiction.[135]
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Barb, why do you feel like we won't be able to express our views much longer? Do you really think that could happen in America?
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I am not even going to bother replying to the tirade above,we can all see that the information that captured the terrorists now languishing in Prison kept us safe they wre already planning the attack on LA,which we got information when these murderers wre under duress,  Thanks to the efforts of this all being brought out they now know every detail and will be training so any interrogation in the future even milder interogation will not work they wont be scared they will have been told America is a nation of cowards the new attorney general said so, and their own President thinks the people are arrogant and derisory. We have been weakened by all this coming out whatever you believe about the methods used to get information, and lets face it thats only one portion of his agenda.and if they are going to try and prosecute the former goverment/lawyers/Bush how about they start with Polosi , get the minutes out that will show who knew about the methods used and went along with it..
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Not you April the stuff above you..
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Just my opinion ......  When I see some of the things that are happening - yeah, I think that could happen in America.......  

Just put all the recent happenings together and think about where the country may be headed.  We no longer even have a president who respects us as people or as a  country and he does whatever he can to undermine our values and everything we stand for.  He has his own agenda and unfortunately, I don't believe that our best interests or freedom of speech have any place in it.    

Just my opinion.  

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Unfortunately, April2, it will not really matter what we have to say according to the Democrats since they now have 60 members to vote on legislation.  That would be thanks to our Senator here in Pa, Arlene Specter.  I always knew he was a ***** anyway.  When you take a bribe from the Democrats(Harry Reid) and you do not have any chance of winning reelection then I guess what the people actually want does not matter.  Always thinking of themselves rather than the ones who actually voted for them.  I did not vote for Specter, I used to wait on the man at the restaurant I worked at many years ago, and figured out that he was a pompous jerk just like our Governor (Rendell).
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I agree with you. I wonder how long we will be able to have these type of discussions on a board like this.  

I will respectfully disagree with Mike and jdw about waterboarding.  I am not saying another word about it.  I don't think I'm going to change your mind nor you mine and so the debate becomes fruitless.  We obviously have some far differing ideas about tortue and what they entails.  I do like to debate the issues, but when I realize we will not agree, I agree to just agree not to agree!  LOL!!!  

I do want to say that I'm thankful we each had the right to state what we believe not matter what it is!  That's what I love about a free nation.  

Have a great evening everyone!  
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I grew up in PA and Arlen Spector used to be a good Senator.  The only reason he is running on the democratic side is that rumor has it that if he runs on the Republican ticket again he will lose.  The conservatives there will not vote from him over a challenger.  I think if he wants to stay in the Senate he made a good move.  I'm not saying I agree with it, but politically for him - it was a good move.
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HelpinUtah,

I totally agree it was a good move for him. He would never have gotten the votes as a republican.  
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Barb....wonderfully and eloquently put...I agree 100%

April....yes, it CAN happen...the liberal democrats, as we speak, (with my friend, Nancy Pelosi, leading the way) is working hard to get the "fairness doctrine" passed....it "allegedly" is so that all sides of a story are told and no radio or tv station can be left or right......it has to be bi-partisan...HOWEVER, what it REALLY means is that all "right" media will be silenced...FOX NEWS...is an example...because they do not agree with Princess Pelosi and her entourage......
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What the United States soldiers experienced with waterboarding was a demonstration.  They were not subject to the actual procedure. It has been classified as torture and more importantly it doesn't work. If someone is subject to what is basically suffocation they will give out any information they are asked to stop it and it may very well be the wrong information. American soldiers were tortured in World War II and the Korean War. However, they did not torture other soldiers in return. The Nazis were convicted at the Nuremburg Trial and many were given the death penalty and others life imprisonment. American soldiers (although not under official direction) did torture civilians in the Vietnam War during the My Lei massacre and many of them who did when interviewed feel a traumatic sense of guilt in living with it. Regardless it doesn't help to obtain information. The more important thing is how to win the war and convict the guilty parties and not descend to their level.
However, I don't believe in incorporating the more "moderate" wing of the Taliban (contradiction in terms) into Afghanistani society and the government just like I did not support not convicting members of the Baath Party in Iraq. If there is any enemy government any members of the government no matter how low level should never have a position of power again. I do believe there President Obama is doing something wrong.
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Don't know about that. With the shouting techniques of Michael Savage and Rush Limbaugh I would doubt Fox News would ever be "silenced". Its honestly hard to get the truth from the media on either side. They always have a particular agenda. I have yet to see a media source that truly is not taking either side. It does seem the majority of the media is controlled by Rupert Murdoch and overwhelmingly conservative but sure there are other papers such as the New York Times which are quite liberal in their bias. If someone can name a newspaper or television news or online news source which reports the facts and lets people make their conclusions (from any direction) consider me a subscriber..
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Regarding your comment:

"To paraphrase Thomas More, I give my enemy benefit of law for my own safety's sake."

However much I might respect, admire and agree with Sir Thomas, look what happened to him - beheaded - and he never, to my knowledge, disagreed openly with his "leader" (not in any way an attempt to compare Obama to King Henry VIII).






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Either way, if the other guy (McCain) won, there would still be this debate...maybe different things, different events, different things to talk about, but the same criticisms, and the same wondering "what if the other guy won?"...  There's always going to be something to disagree with.  To the people (including myself sometimes) who criticize our government, do you think you can do a better job?  I doubt I would....  Have any of you taken to writing to your representatives or writing to Obama?  I’m a bit ashamed to say I haven’t written. (Though I have visited our state capital for a couple protests)  Generally it is a lot easier to complain on the internet or to our friends, family members, etc than it is to take action.
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Terrorists do not follow the laws of war like a normal country does!  When will everyone understand this!  THIS IS NOT A REGULAR WAR!!!! "

Yes those Nazi's they really followed some spectacular humane set of laws didn't they?

This is off topic from the whole President Obama discussion......but:

War is war is war and evil will always be evil. The fact that it comes against us for once doesn't really make it any different except that it upsets us. I'm sure all the genocide going on in the world matters to the people who are faced with it every single day - if I lived in Darfur for example..........I would think that wasn't a regular war either.

We are not exempt just because we live in America we ARE subject to the same rules as everyone else.
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I agree 100%....I know that FOX is very right wing....however, it seems there is so much left wing media at least there is FOX to counteract it!  I agree..I would love to see a news show or radio show that is truly the middle of the road.....
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mnsbc is very liberal/left  and I have noticed CNN has gone that way but not as badly as abc and mnsbc ,I  dont find Fox that bad I have listened to Rush , Michael Savage although amusing and very intelligent is too loud and demeaning, but I listen now and again, same with Hannity. I do believe that they will try to stifle the raio talk shows as was said in the posts above Pelosi definatly would like to curtail some ,actually they all think their cards are marked , that is something we need to make sure doesnt happen that we always have  Free speech, Has anyone sen the new Portrait of the President in Union Square, I believe there was to be an unveilingtoday? would love to hear any thoughts on that.
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1stly, I want to point out that my political leanings are conservative/right
2ndly, I'm Australian, not American.
It suprises me that so many of you good ol boys got so worked up about Obama bowing to foriegn diplomats. it's just courtesy(Although it would've been great if he just wrestled the saudi criminal to the ground and gave him a nipple cripple.)
I'd prefer those type of people to be isolated from world affairs.
how can any country deal with people who enjoy a society where women are worth about as much as the filthiest peice of filth that was ever categorised as filth?
Personally I am still waiting to see Obama be tested under real pressure.
what will he do if Pakistan goes the way of afghanistan?(only nuclear)
what will he do about the oil syndicates devaluing the american dollar(by trading oil in euros not USD). which is what i believe really started the iraq war.
the big issues are what count, and the jury's still out on Obama.
the rest of the world seems to love him(mostly coz they think he's weak).
that's a shame that so many people think that way.
I happen to like you guys a lot(though i'm not so crash hot on your govt though).
anyway, that's just the useless junk rollin around inside my head at this particular time.
Cheers,
Nick
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Thanks for your thoughts.  

I have to tell you that one of my fears is that the rest of the world perceives Obama as weak and that they like him for that reason.  To hear someone so far away make that comment as well actually brings those fears to reality for me.  

I hope you're doing well today!  

~~Janet
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yeah i'm afraid that there is a bit of a sense that america is finally eating some humble pie.
i find that sickening because most countries on earth are good at creating problems and rarely try to solve them(unless they are directly affected or will profit from it).
the USA may make mistakes, but you do alot more good than anyone else.
there's also alot of jealousy and hatred which is really just pathetic, particularly from the more supposedly 'civilised' countries(ahem, france)
the silly thing is, a lot of people in other countries resent the fact that americans don't pay much attention to them. they think that they are worth paying attention to but they have an enormous (subconcious) sense of inferiorority that often comes from the fact that deep down they know that there's no reason americans would bother.
I hope i'm not being too harsh there, but there really is ALOT of anti-americanism and i hate it. i know whose side i on.

Nick
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Wow this should be in the guiness book of records for a thread, ....Lol I just spotted on my front page a poll run by Msnbc giving Grades to how OBama has done the last 100 days, 37.1% gave him an F.. 34% gave him an A ..13% gave him a D.. 8% a C 8%  and msnbc is usually biased in his favor, now yesterday a lot of folks here  were saying Polls dont work and I think that is possible but this is one done by the left wing liberal TV news .....interesting.... Nick  I have noticed including my family in the UK that you dont ,in other countries get all the facts and news the way we do even the Canadians that are members here dont know ,yesterday one didnt know the negative way he was speaking about America at the Summit in Strasbourg and whilst it mnay seem small potatoes to you how would you feel if yory president/Prime minister when he went abroad said Australia was arrogant, derisory (which in my opinion is worse than being called Arrogant) and was apologisng for us.There are other facts he is giving immediate Citizenship  ,some say up to 20 million illegal folks, before the end of this year, they have already taken trade jobs that could have been taken by the Americans  here,inspite of people saying, oh theyare  jobs Americans dont want, not true, I have personal knowledge of boat yards who employ illegal people when Americans would work there, all the gardening, landscaping Housekeeping Nanny jobs are taken. I have family going the legal way waiting years to get a green card then they have to wait 5 years to get citizenship,the 20 million get it immediatly and cleverly before he census is taken ensuring he gets their votes,in3-4 years, ,there are many other weakening things he has done to this country.  
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Hey Glad you like us anyway I think America is wonderful I was on my way to Cairns in Australia when I stopped off in LA to visit family... never got Down under ...found my dream here and stayed got my green card through family , became a citizen, the long and legal way, love it and the people  I am very patriotic.I feel devastated by what he is doing to us.
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I am mostly concerned with what the US does outside it's borders.
what happens inside is for you guys to sort out.
I will try to find some video of what's been going on over there(I don't have cable connected at the moment, moved recently).
if anyone knows where i can find a vid to bring me up to speed on HUSSEIN obama(lol), let me know.
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i've never been to cairns(too hot for me)but i'm going to port douglas soon(it's a few hundred miles south, or maybe 1000, not sure).
glad you found somewhere you like/love.
just for the record I can't stand our new PM,
AAAARRRGH!!!

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I guess Obama invented the flu to bring our country down too cause he hates it sooo much.  This has gotten totally ridiculous. I am curious as to where everyone gets all this time on their hands to sit and ponder this stuff. This is just sad. period.  OK come on, every single thing wrong with our country, our personal lives, our bowel habits is because Obama is trying to destroy us! Whew, get a grip!
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I forgot you have a PM.. Prime Minister like the UK is he liberal or conservative a two party system....I will PM you a couple of links to go to and you may be your own judge and make your own mind up ..
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Yes I would agree.  When things aren't going well whoever is president is likely to get the blame. It depends what they are able to do about it. Whether they ignore the needs of Americans in general or that take action but then again I completely agree if we don't speak out on behalf of ourselves then in a way we are responsible for what happens. I did read an article where it states that President Obama selects and responds to certain letters people write, sometimes people in need. People have ever right to disagree with the president and I certainly have some concerns myself but if we don't voice our opinion then we losing our right to be part of a participatory democracy which is what we are fighting to preserve in the current war and people in many other countries may never see. In that regard we should consider ourselves lucky to live here and have these rights as Americans and never take them for granted.
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Now we have lowered ourselves to degrading our president to people in other countries. What are we coming to!!!! I am done with this thread, it makes me sick!!! I need a freakin smoke~~~~~~
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War is always changing.  Historically, (as an example) soldiers would gather on a field or some other area and fight only with other soldiers although some civilians always ended up getting hurt.  WWI and WWII changed all that.  So in that sense, I tend to agree with nygirl7.

Unlike nick30, I am a pinko socialist lefty Canadian I do agree with some of what he said.

Obama is still well-liked in Canada.  Personally, I don't see Obama as weak.  Whether the king of Saudi Arabia is a criminal, I don't know.  However, Obama bowing to him seemed more like a gesture of respect than weakness.  Would he be considered week if he bowed to someone in a different culture like Japan or China where bowing is considered a sign of respect?

Ultimately, history will judge Obama just as it has judged all other presidents.

Teko - Obama controls our our bowel habits?  I guess he doesn't want us to be full of shih  = )



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Obama degraded US long before we degraded him.  

And the opinions of people in other countries are very important - it's interesting to know that OTHER countries think Obama is weak - lets me know that I'm not the only one.  AND if other countries think he is weak, they are going to try  much more to take advantage - not going to be good for US or at least ME.  

Time on my hands? - *I* don't have any - I have to get up at 3:30 every day and go to work.  

Now I'm off to bed because 3:30 comes in 8 hrs 21 mins.  Good night.  
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Wow! That's a lot of drivel!
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It is your opinion that Obama degraded you, not me!  Do not speak for me. I think people are having fun with us is what I think! Good nite..... So you do the same thing you blame Obama for? hmm
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Is Obama behind everything that is wrong in the USA?  He must be one all-powerful and all-knowing guy to achieve that.  He is well liked and respected in Canada.  I know I would have voted for him.  He has incredible issues to deal with, the economy is just one of many.




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Its a shame when someone's political background becomes an insult. I got sick of political advertisements even as a kid where they said someone was "hopelessly liberal". And if the majority in power are democrats then I don't think it fair to lambast the other side. The only thing I would disagree with people is those who say that President Obama is a socialist. Actually its working the other way around. The socialist countries in Europe are gradually overturning their regulations regarding government benefits and job security and creating stronger anti-immigration regulations. Even if President Obama is more liberal than other presidents I would say the countries of western Europe as a whole are becoming more conservative and ending socialism in most ways.
  Part of it is just pragmatic. When there is little money to go around the whole concept of socialism is not possible and its basically the haves and the have nots. An increasing situation anywhere in the world. I would like the United States to be as it is: a democracy and I don't see any specific regulations to overturn that. Any president would have to put in greater regulations to end the financial crisis and have greater control over mortgages. I strongly believe the reccession was preventable but I'd rather have people try to find acceptable solutions to end it rather than point fingers at which political party or ideology caused it. That won't change anything for the average American who just lost their job.
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everyone is entilitled to an opinion, they don't all have to be the same, no need for insults though.

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Thank you nick and iladvocate for pointing out that we all have our own opinion.  Insults are definitely not necessary.  No matter if you think the other is wrong or not.  

All:
Have a great day!

Melissa
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A number of reporters/bloggers allowed themselves to be subjected to water boarding as part of what I'd call publicity stunts.

Afterwards, all reacted the same way; horrified over the experience. Most confessed they still have nightmares about the experience to this day. There's a reason our boys in WWII shot enemy soldiers who used this torture tactic.

As to information gained; recently made available records that have been examined show that ANY usable intel was gotten PRIOR to torture. Afterwards, nothing of any logistical use was obtained.

So in the interest of concern for my fellow people, I'm NOT going to suggest you try this out at home to "See what it's like."
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I agree and  less of the 'drivel' Lol ...How about we agree to 'Restore ""America ..not  'Remake" America as was suggested in the news conferance yesterday ...
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I think the America that some of us older ones (baby boomers + (not sure about your age, so offense intended)) know it, is probably not going to happen again. Obama seems he// bent on "remaking" America and I don't think that bodes well for anyone.   So how about "damage control" so we can preserve what we still have??  

Night all ..
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Well it would depend on what specific idea of his you were speaking about. I would believe that starting under president Reagan many of the protection we have as regards where our money is invested in banks and our financial security that was put in place by F.D.R. was undermined and President Obama would like to return us to that in the time of a reccession. I do want to see specific regulations on how banks can invest our funds. I would not believe it in the nation's best interest to invest people's savings and Social Security funds in the stock market and there should be protections against predatory lending and many of the practices that started the reccession that came from economic deregulation. I by no means want a socialist economy. I do believe that people have the right to their savings. But I also believe that the regulations should be returned as to how the banks can invest them. I well understood the need for "welfare reform" but that was put into place by then president Clinton, hardly a conservative. Is it other than economic reform you are speaking about? F.D.R. called his plan the "New Deal" and I believed it served America well and should have been left in place. I don't believe President Obama will live up to his standards though.
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Has anyone read the book "The Forgotten Man"?  I personally believe the "New Deal" allowed the depression to hold on longer than it should have and so I am one of those who disagree with that concept.  I personally do not like FDR's policies.  I know a lot of people think he did a great job, but I think he was full of himself based on reports about him and from what my grandparents have told me.
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You speak a lot of sense Iladvocate and I have to agree , I havent read "The Forgotten Man' maybe I will thanks for that.helpin
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Man i never in my life thought this thread would get so many resposones, i guess it is a good thing everyone can express your thoughts ...i really hope we can  keep this right..i guess what this proves is there are so many differnt opions and people are very strong with those...i just want sya thanks to all who posted
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Jollyman:
I agree - it's nice that everyone could express themselves.  I'm thankful we all have differing views because those differing views are what keeps the checks and balances in place.  I hope and pray we are able to keep the right to our opinions and freedoms.  I know this post ended up taking a life of its own and we steered off course from the original thread, but I'm so thankful to here different points of view.  
Have a great day!  
Hugs,
Janet
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Illadvocate,meant to say in previous post , My comment in the earlier post about "Restore America Not' Remake America 'was a response to what the President said yesterday at the press conferance  'He said he wanted to Remake America ' I didnt like that idea Restore seemed better, Yes Jolly man you sure got a mixed Bag of responses ,see we do have free speech at least On MH.. thank you for it...
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I am just have one question. Apparently 64% of americans said they are pleased with obamas first 100 days........uh...were any of you in that poll or asked because I and others I know were not asked. If so, I am sure that percentage would be alot lower. Who did they ask in the first place?
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535822_tn?1389452880
Havent the foggiest Glen Beck was aying the same thing on his radio show , a few posts ago some of the folks wre querying the Polls and how accurate they wre I heard it was 54% but maybe that was another Poll, you may be able to google it for answers..
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Joeysfoxymama:
I'm not sure I believe the polls.  I suppose it would be accurate based on the demographics of where they took the poll.  For instance, one poll showed that 96% of African Americans approved and that 0% were undecided, but none disapproved.  Several African Americans I know, told me they do not approve.  So, that tells me that it just depends on who or where they ask the questions.  I've never been included in any poll nor do I know anyone who has ever been in a poll.  So, I honestly have no idea who they asked or where.  
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It all depends on what questions are asked and how they are worded.  So, nonone really knows how accurate they really are except the person who is the poll taker.  Even then, there are only a certain amount of people that are actually polled and are still very focused on a specific area of importance.  Think about the polls that we do on this site; they are voluntary.  You have a choice to either participate or not.  That is what most of these polls are is voluntary.  It is not possible, to get everyone in this country to actually participate in the poll even if it was mailed or door to door.

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Good point. I guess it does depend on the demographics. If I recall from a research methods class I took in college, if someone takes a poll, they have to state what tyle of demographics was used and geared toward. I just dont get it! Even the news didnt state anything like that. I am just frustrated. If it was 64%, maybe they were confused and meant to say that amount of percent were NOT happy with his first 100 days...lol
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Avatar_f_tn
RE: Waterboarding

I was thrilled to see Governor Jesse Ventura (you know... the former wrestler and ex Navy Seals Veteran) speak out against waterboarding on The Larry King show tonight. Why does Mr. Ventura's opinion matter to me so much ? Because he's had it done before and it IS torture. And like he said, these accused terrorists will make up lies just to get them to stop... waterboarding does not get the truth out of terrorists. If it did, then Bin Laden would have been captured by now.
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I  guess you forgot that we did catch many others that were involved with 9/11 and also Saddam Hussein.  But many people seem to forget that.  It may be torture but their was no other choice.  What do you suppose they do to get the information out of them?  
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Avatar_f_tn
Melissa, you just don't get it.  If there are circumstances that justify doing that to someone else, than someone can justify doing that to you and your loved ones.  Where will you hide when the wind changes?
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I understand your point of view, but it goes the other way too does it not?  Where will you hide when the terrorists come and capture you - are they going to honor those treaties - I think not!  Terrorists are evil and tortue people every single day.  This is not a war against a country where we have treaties and international policies about how we conduct war.  I could understand if we were in a war with another country who all agreed to honor these policies.  However, terrorists do not honor the law of any country!  That is why I see our dealing with terrorists on a totally different level.  We are NOT at war with another country - just the terrorists who choose to disregard law, chop off peoples head with dull knives, etc.
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585414_tn?1288944902
  Well the one thing is that waterboarding or other forms of coercion whether they are defined as torture or not have been shown not to work. A person can and will confess anything to stop it but what they confess may be of no meaning. The other difficulty is that it makes complete sense to shoot to kill a suicide bomber but the Taliban use people on the front lines who are completely defenseless such as children or people who have a developmental disability. And hide bombs and Taliban soldiers in villages. Its hard to know what's the right thing to do. And yes then America does get wrongly blamed for what are targets are.
  I would say one thing for sure is that we have to crack down on Pakistan as regards the Madrassahs. Those are supposedly schools but are training grounds for children to grow up to be fanatics and many are then directly recruited into the Taliban. Ultimately Pakistan and Afghanistan have to cooperate with us and not just the leaders but the communities as a whole or in allowing the Taliban to collect recruits they are only destroying themselves. I certainly as I posted did not like the idea of negotiating with the "moderate" wing of the Taliban. That's an oxymoron and we should by no means capitulate to any of them.
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Oh ho .....this thread got pulled back up again,I would like to see Ms Poloski tell the truth that she knew about the Water boarding issue.At least the other supposed abuse pics arent going to be dragged out now, O Bama flip flopped on that one or someone close to him told him it would be better to play it down , however it has gone around the world already without the pics and abroad they are asking what have we to hide not showing them...
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Now she's Polish. Good job Pops
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I still have not heard anyone suggest what to do to get the information out of the terrorists.  So, we can argue or discuss this point all we want but still I have not heard any solutions.  

Jd,  Oh, I do get it.  The problem is that since I do not agree with you; I am wrong.  We'll that is your opinion and I gave you mine.  I respect your opinion but I do not agree.   If my family member was one of the terrorists then they deserve to be waterboarded or whatever other method is needed to get the info. out of them.  And, noone really knows if this works since we are not releasing those reports.  How convenient!  

margy,  As far as Pelosi; she is the most annoying, obnoxious, liar in the House.  Besides, the other complete liar that we have not heard from since the suicide of Freddie Mac's CFO.  Oh, that would be Elmer Fudd aka Barney Frank.  It is amazing to me that Speaker of the House, Pelosi, was not briefed considering she is 3rd in command.  We'll she will never be held accountable since most members of congress get away with lying all the time.  I would like to find just one that actually tells the truth.  I really think that would be impossible to find.  

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It would be really hard to decide what to do now. I am not sure if what was done was correct and if there were violations (those photos were depicting willful acts of abuse and sadism that went far beyond waterboarding and many were not in the course of investigations) what should be done but the problem is to release them would be to betray the confidence of American soldiers. So under the Freedom of Information Act if they are officially withdrawn it would take 20 years. The difficulty is as I stated there is no clear enemy. In World War II no matter how evil the other side was you knew who they were. And once the war was over they all surrendered. Al-Qaeda is not like that and their ideology can take root anywhere. It will be very hard to eliminate them entirely as anyone can pick up their ideas and act on them and take over a portion of a country. There are no easy solutions except to contain them where they are most active and defeat them there. A country that is economically prosperous and politically stable will not descend to fanaticism but in a reccession there is not much economic aid to go around. Ultimately, I like everyone else, would want what is best for America and that the troops be used wisely and that people support them. Other than that I can honestly say the topic brings up more questions than answers because there are no easy ones.
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I knew you'd notice that one has a Russian ring to it dont you  think,.....You got it Melissa she is ...her nose is getting longer I think they'll have to toss her out...shame .
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