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518031 tn?1295578974
How do you all feel how President Obama has been with other leaders of world
I really would like to see from you all here, what you all think of how President Obama has protrayed, our country to foriegn leaders of the world? Personally i think he really has hurt our country by being, overly nice to the Cuban heads of state, and Chavez. I am sorry if i am insulting anyone but why would the President of our country bow to a king of Aribia. I really dont think our president should bow ro anyone? Just my thoughts please give me yours
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Page 9 of 9
585414 tn?1288944902
What the United States soldiers experienced with waterboarding was a demonstration.  They were not subject to the actual procedure. It has been classified as torture and more importantly it doesn't work. If someone is subject to what is basically suffocation they will give out any information they are asked to stop it and it may very well be the wrong information. American soldiers were tortured in World War II and the Korean War. However, they did not torture other soldiers in return. The Nazis were convicted at the Nuremburg Trial and many were given the death penalty and others life imprisonment. American soldiers (although not under official direction) did torture civilians in the Vietnam War during the My Lei massacre and many of them who did when interviewed feel a traumatic sense of guilt in living with it. Regardless it doesn't help to obtain information. The more important thing is how to win the war and convict the guilty parties and not descend to their level.
However, I don't believe in incorporating the more "moderate" wing of the Taliban (contradiction in terms) into Afghanistani society and the government just like I did not support not convicting members of the Baath Party in Iraq. If there is any enemy government any members of the government no matter how low level should never have a position of power again. I do believe there President Obama is doing something wrong.
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585414 tn?1288944902
Don't know about that. With the shouting techniques of Michael Savage and Rush Limbaugh I would doubt Fox News would ever be "silenced". Its honestly hard to get the truth from the media on either side. They always have a particular agenda. I have yet to see a media source that truly is not taking either side. It does seem the majority of the media is controlled by Rupert Murdoch and overwhelmingly conservative but sure there are other papers such as the New York Times which are quite liberal in their bias. If someone can name a newspaper or television news or online news source which reports the facts and lets people make their conclusions (from any direction) consider me a subscriber..
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460185 tn?1326081372
Regarding your comment:

"To paraphrase Thomas More, I give my enemy benefit of law for my own safety's sake."

However much I might respect, admire and agree with Sir Thomas, look what happened to him - beheaded - and he never, to my knowledge, disagreed openly with his "leader" (not in any way an attempt to compare Obama to King Henry VIII).






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365714 tn?1292202708
Either way, if the other guy (McCain) won, there would still be this debate...maybe different things, different events, different things to talk about, but the same criticisms, and the same wondering "what if the other guy won?"...  There's always going to be something to disagree with.  To the people (including myself sometimes) who criticize our government, do you think you can do a better job?  I doubt I would....  Have any of you taken to writing to your representatives or writing to Obama?  I’m a bit ashamed to say I haven’t written. (Though I have visited our state capital for a couple protests)  Generally it is a lot easier to complain on the internet or to our friends, family members, etc than it is to take action.
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179856 tn?1333550962
Terrorists do not follow the laws of war like a normal country does!  When will everyone understand this!  THIS IS NOT A REGULAR WAR!!!! "

Yes those Nazi's they really followed some spectacular humane set of laws didn't they?

This is off topic from the whole President Obama discussion......but:

War is war is war and evil will always be evil. The fact that it comes against us for once doesn't really make it any different except that it upsets us. I'm sure all the genocide going on in the world matters to the people who are faced with it every single day - if I lived in Darfur for example..........I would think that wasn't a regular war either.

We are not exempt just because we live in America we ARE subject to the same rules as everyone else.
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165308 tn?1323190145
I agree 100%....I know that FOX is very right wing....however, it seems there is so much left wing media at least there is FOX to counteract it!  I agree..I would love to see a news show or radio show that is truly the middle of the road.....
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535822 tn?1443980380
mnsbc is very liberal/left  and I have noticed CNN has gone that way but not as badly as abc and mnsbc ,I  dont find Fox that bad I have listened to Rush , Michael Savage although amusing and very intelligent is too loud and demeaning, but I listen now and again, same with Hannity. I do believe that they will try to stifle the raio talk shows as was said in the posts above Pelosi definatly would like to curtail some ,actually they all think their cards are marked , that is something we need to make sure doesnt happen that we always have  Free speech, Has anyone sen the new Portrait of the President in Union Square, I believe there was to be an unveilingtoday? would love to hear any thoughts on that.
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1stly, I want to point out that my political leanings are conservative/right
2ndly, I'm Australian, not American.
It suprises me that so many of you good ol boys got so worked up about Obama bowing to foriegn diplomats. it's just courtesy(Although it would've been great if he just wrestled the saudi criminal to the ground and gave him a nipple cripple.)
I'd prefer those type of people to be isolated from world affairs.
how can any country deal with people who enjoy a society where women are worth about as much as the filthiest peice of filth that was ever categorised as filth?
Personally I am still waiting to see Obama be tested under real pressure.
what will he do if Pakistan goes the way of afghanistan?(only nuclear)
what will he do about the oil syndicates devaluing the american dollar(by trading oil in euros not USD). which is what i believe really started the iraq war.
the big issues are what count, and the jury's still out on Obama.
the rest of the world seems to love him(mostly coz they think he's weak).
that's a shame that so many people think that way.
I happen to like you guys a lot(though i'm not so crash hot on your govt though).
anyway, that's just the useless junk rollin around inside my head at this particular time.
Cheers,
Nick
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611067 tn?1458595083
Thanks for your thoughts.  

I have to tell you that one of my fears is that the rest of the world perceives Obama as weak and that they like him for that reason.  To hear someone so far away make that comment as well actually brings those fears to reality for me.  

I hope you're doing well today!  

~~Janet
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yeah i'm afraid that there is a bit of a sense that america is finally eating some humble pie.
i find that sickening because most countries on earth are good at creating problems and rarely try to solve them(unless they are directly affected or will profit from it).
the USA may make mistakes, but you do alot more good than anyone else.
there's also alot of jealousy and hatred which is really just pathetic, particularly from the more supposedly 'civilised' countries(ahem, france)
the silly thing is, a lot of people in other countries resent the fact that americans don't pay much attention to them. they think that they are worth paying attention to but they have an enormous (subconcious) sense of inferiorority that often comes from the fact that deep down they know that there's no reason americans would bother.
I hope i'm not being too harsh there, but there really is ALOT of anti-americanism and i hate it. i know whose side i on.

Nick
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535822 tn?1443980380
Wow this should be in the guiness book of records for a thread, ....Lol I just spotted on my front page a poll run by Msnbc giving Grades to how OBama has done the last 100 days, 37.1% gave him an F.. 34% gave him an A ..13% gave him a D.. 8% a C 8%  and msnbc is usually biased in his favor, now yesterday a lot of folks here  were saying Polls dont work and I think that is possible but this is one done by the left wing liberal TV news .....interesting.... Nick  I have noticed including my family in the UK that you dont ,in other countries get all the facts and news the way we do even the Canadians that are members here dont know ,yesterday one didnt know the negative way he was speaking about America at the Summit in Strasbourg and whilst it mnay seem small potatoes to you how would you feel if yory president/Prime minister when he went abroad said Australia was arrogant, derisory (which in my opinion is worse than being called Arrogant) and was apologisng for us.There are other facts he is giving immediate Citizenship  ,some say up to 20 million illegal folks, before the end of this year, they have already taken trade jobs that could have been taken by the Americans  here,inspite of people saying, oh theyare  jobs Americans dont want, not true, I have personal knowledge of boat yards who employ illegal people when Americans would work there, all the gardening, landscaping Housekeeping Nanny jobs are taken. I have family going the legal way waiting years to get a green card then they have to wait 5 years to get citizenship,the 20 million get it immediatly and cleverly before he census is taken ensuring he gets their votes,in3-4 years, ,there are many other weakening things he has done to this country.  
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535822 tn?1443980380
Hey Glad you like us anyway I think America is wonderful I was on my way to Cairns in Australia when I stopped off in LA to visit family... never got Down under ...found my dream here and stayed got my green card through family , became a citizen, the long and legal way, love it and the people  I am very patriotic.I feel devastated by what he is doing to us.
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I am mostly concerned with what the US does outside it's borders.
what happens inside is for you guys to sort out.
I will try to find some video of what's been going on over there(I don't have cable connected at the moment, moved recently).
if anyone knows where i can find a vid to bring me up to speed on HUSSEIN obama(lol), let me know.
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i've never been to cairns(too hot for me)but i'm going to port douglas soon(it's a few hundred miles south, or maybe 1000, not sure).
glad you found somewhere you like/love.
just for the record I can't stand our new PM,
AAAARRRGH!!!

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I guess Obama invented the flu to bring our country down too cause he hates it sooo much.  This has gotten totally ridiculous. I am curious as to where everyone gets all this time on their hands to sit and ponder this stuff. This is just sad. period.  OK come on, every single thing wrong with our country, our personal lives, our bowel habits is because Obama is trying to destroy us! Whew, get a grip!
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535822 tn?1443980380
I forgot you have a PM.. Prime Minister like the UK is he liberal or conservative a two party system....I will PM you a couple of links to go to and you may be your own judge and make your own mind up ..
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585414 tn?1288944902
Yes I would agree.  When things aren't going well whoever is president is likely to get the blame. It depends what they are able to do about it. Whether they ignore the needs of Americans in general or that take action but then again I completely agree if we don't speak out on behalf of ourselves then in a way we are responsible for what happens. I did read an article where it states that President Obama selects and responds to certain letters people write, sometimes people in need. People have ever right to disagree with the president and I certainly have some concerns myself but if we don't voice our opinion then we losing our right to be part of a participatory democracy which is what we are fighting to preserve in the current war and people in many other countries may never see. In that regard we should consider ourselves lucky to live here and have these rights as Americans and never take them for granted.
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Now we have lowered ourselves to degrading our president to people in other countries. What are we coming to!!!! I am done with this thread, it makes me sick!!! I need a freakin smoke~~~~~~
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460185 tn?1326081372
War is always changing.  Historically, (as an example) soldiers would gather on a field or some other area and fight only with other soldiers although some civilians always ended up getting hurt.  WWI and WWII changed all that.  So in that sense, I tend to agree with nygirl7.

Unlike nick30, I am a pinko socialist lefty Canadian I do agree with some of what he said.

Obama is still well-liked in Canada.  Personally, I don't see Obama as weak.  Whether the king of Saudi Arabia is a criminal, I don't know.  However, Obama bowing to him seemed more like a gesture of respect than weakness.  Would he be considered week if he bowed to someone in a different culture like Japan or China where bowing is considered a sign of respect?

Ultimately, history will judge Obama just as it has judged all other presidents.

Teko - Obama controls our our bowel habits?  I guess he doesn't want us to be full of shih  = )



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649848 tn?1484935765
Obama degraded US long before we degraded him.  

And the opinions of people in other countries are very important - it's interesting to know that OTHER countries think Obama is weak - lets me know that I'm not the only one.  AND if other countries think he is weak, they are going to try  much more to take advantage - not going to be good for US or at least ME.  

Time on my hands? - *I* don't have any - I have to get up at 3:30 every day and go to work.  

Now I'm off to bed because 3:30 comes in 8 hrs 21 mins.  Good night.  
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Wow! That's a lot of drivel!
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It is your opinion that Obama degraded you, not me!  Do not speak for me. I think people are having fun with us is what I think! Good nite..... So you do the same thing you blame Obama for? hmm
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460185 tn?1326081372
Is Obama behind everything that is wrong in the USA?  He must be one all-powerful and all-knowing guy to achieve that.  He is well liked and respected in Canada.  I know I would have voted for him.  He has incredible issues to deal with, the economy is just one of many.




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585414 tn?1288944902
Its a shame when someone's political background becomes an insult. I got sick of political advertisements even as a kid where they said someone was "hopelessly liberal". And if the majority in power are democrats then I don't think it fair to lambast the other side. The only thing I would disagree with people is those who say that President Obama is a socialist. Actually its working the other way around. The socialist countries in Europe are gradually overturning their regulations regarding government benefits and job security and creating stronger anti-immigration regulations. Even if President Obama is more liberal than other presidents I would say the countries of western Europe as a whole are becoming more conservative and ending socialism in most ways.
  Part of it is just pragmatic. When there is little money to go around the whole concept of socialism is not possible and its basically the haves and the have nots. An increasing situation anywhere in the world. I would like the United States to be as it is: a democracy and I don't see any specific regulations to overturn that. Any president would have to put in greater regulations to end the financial crisis and have greater control over mortgages. I strongly believe the reccession was preventable but I'd rather have people try to find acceptable solutions to end it rather than point fingers at which political party or ideology caused it. That won't change anything for the average American who just lost their job.
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everyone is entilitled to an opinion, they don't all have to be the same, no need for insults though.

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765070 tn?1384873394
Thank you nick and iladvocate for pointing out that we all have our own opinion.  Insults are definitely not necessary.  No matter if you think the other is wrong or not.  

All:
Have a great day!

Melissa
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228686 tn?1211558307
A number of reporters/bloggers allowed themselves to be subjected to water boarding as part of what I'd call publicity stunts.

Afterwards, all reacted the same way; horrified over the experience. Most confessed they still have nightmares about the experience to this day. There's a reason our boys in WWII shot enemy soldiers who used this torture tactic.

As to information gained; recently made available records that have been examined show that ANY usable intel was gotten PRIOR to torture. Afterwards, nothing of any logistical use was obtained.

So in the interest of concern for my fellow people, I'm NOT going to suggest you try this out at home to "See what it's like."
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535822 tn?1443980380
I agree and  less of the 'drivel' Lol ...How about we agree to 'Restore ""America ..not  'Remake" America as was suggested in the news conferance yesterday ...
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649848 tn?1484935765
I think the America that some of us older ones (baby boomers + (not sure about your age, so offense intended)) know it, is probably not going to happen again. Obama seems he// bent on "remaking" America and I don't think that bodes well for anyone.   So how about "damage control" so we can preserve what we still have??  

Night all ..
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585414 tn?1288944902
Well it would depend on what specific idea of his you were speaking about. I would believe that starting under president Reagan many of the protection we have as regards where our money is invested in banks and our financial security that was put in place by F.D.R. was undermined and President Obama would like to return us to that in the time of a reccession. I do want to see specific regulations on how banks can invest our funds. I would not believe it in the nation's best interest to invest people's savings and Social Security funds in the stock market and there should be protections against predatory lending and many of the practices that started the reccession that came from economic deregulation. I by no means want a socialist economy. I do believe that people have the right to their savings. But I also believe that the regulations should be returned as to how the banks can invest them. I well understood the need for "welfare reform" but that was put into place by then president Clinton, hardly a conservative. Is it other than economic reform you are speaking about? F.D.R. called his plan the "New Deal" and I believed it served America well and should have been left in place. I don't believe President Obama will live up to his standards though.
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611067 tn?1458595083
Has anyone read the book "The Forgotten Man"?  I personally believe the "New Deal" allowed the depression to hold on longer than it should have and so I am one of those who disagree with that concept.  I personally do not like FDR's policies.  I know a lot of people think he did a great job, but I think he was full of himself based on reports about him and from what my grandparents have told me.
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535822 tn?1443980380
You speak a lot of sense Iladvocate and I have to agree , I havent read "The Forgotten Man' maybe I will thanks for that.helpin
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518031 tn?1295578974
Man i never in my life thought this thread would get so many resposones, i guess it is a good thing everyone can express your thoughts ...i really hope we can  keep this right..i guess what this proves is there are so many differnt opions and people are very strong with those...i just want sya thanks to all who posted
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611067 tn?1458595083
Jollyman:
I agree - it's nice that everyone could express themselves.  I'm thankful we all have differing views because those differing views are what keeps the checks and balances in place.  I hope and pray we are able to keep the right to our opinions and freedoms.  I know this post ended up taking a life of its own and we steered off course from the original thread, but I'm so thankful to here different points of view.  
Have a great day!  
Hugs,
Janet
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535822 tn?1443980380
Illadvocate,meant to say in previous post , My comment in the earlier post about "Restore America Not' Remake America 'was a response to what the President said yesterday at the press conferance  'He said he wanted to Remake America ' I didnt like that idea Restore seemed better, Yes Jolly man you sure got a mixed Bag of responses ,see we do have free speech at least On MH.. thank you for it...
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886304 tn?1256095504
I am just have one question. Apparently 64% of americans said they are pleased with obamas first 100 days........uh...were any of you in that poll or asked because I and others I know were not asked. If so, I am sure that percentage would be alot lower. Who did they ask in the first place?
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535822 tn?1443980380
Havent the foggiest Glen Beck was aying the same thing on his radio show , a few posts ago some of the folks wre querying the Polls and how accurate they wre I heard it was 54% but maybe that was another Poll, you may be able to google it for answers..
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611067 tn?1458595083
Joeysfoxymama:
I'm not sure I believe the polls.  I suppose it would be accurate based on the demographics of where they took the poll.  For instance, one poll showed that 96% of African Americans approved and that 0% were undecided, but none disapproved.  Several African Americans I know, told me they do not approve.  So, that tells me that it just depends on who or where they ask the questions.  I've never been included in any poll nor do I know anyone who has ever been in a poll.  So, I honestly have no idea who they asked or where.  
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765070 tn?1384873394
It all depends on what questions are asked and how they are worded.  So, nonone really knows how accurate they really are except the person who is the poll taker.  Even then, there are only a certain amount of people that are actually polled and are still very focused on a specific area of importance.  Think about the polls that we do on this site; they are voluntary.  You have a choice to either participate or not.  That is what most of these polls are is voluntary.  It is not possible, to get everyone in this country to actually participate in the poll even if it was mailed or door to door.

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886304 tn?1256095504
Good point. I guess it does depend on the demographics. If I recall from a research methods class I took in college, if someone takes a poll, they have to state what tyle of demographics was used and geared toward. I just dont get it! Even the news didnt state anything like that. I am just frustrated. If it was 64%, maybe they were confused and meant to say that amount of percent were NOT happy with his first 100 days...lol
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RE: Waterboarding

I was thrilled to see Governor Jesse Ventura (you know... the former wrestler and ex Navy Seals Veteran) speak out against waterboarding on The Larry King show tonight. Why does Mr. Ventura's opinion matter to me so much ? Because he's had it done before and it IS torture. And like he said, these accused terrorists will make up lies just to get them to stop... waterboarding does not get the truth out of terrorists. If it did, then Bin Laden would have been captured by now.
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765070 tn?1384873394
I  guess you forgot that we did catch many others that were involved with 9/11 and also Saddam Hussein.  But many people seem to forget that.  It may be torture but their was no other choice.  What do you suppose they do to get the information out of them?  
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Melissa, you just don't get it.  If there are circumstances that justify doing that to someone else, than someone can justify doing that to you and your loved ones.  Where will you hide when the wind changes?
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611067 tn?1458595083
I understand your point of view, but it goes the other way too does it not?  Where will you hide when the terrorists come and capture you - are they going to honor those treaties - I think not!  Terrorists are evil and tortue people every single day.  This is not a war against a country where we have treaties and international policies about how we conduct war.  I could understand if we were in a war with another country who all agreed to honor these policies.  However, terrorists do not honor the law of any country!  That is why I see our dealing with terrorists on a totally different level.  We are NOT at war with another country - just the terrorists who choose to disregard law, chop off peoples head with dull knives, etc.
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585414 tn?1288944902
  Well the one thing is that waterboarding or other forms of coercion whether they are defined as torture or not have been shown not to work. A person can and will confess anything to stop it but what they confess may be of no meaning. The other difficulty is that it makes complete sense to shoot to kill a suicide bomber but the Taliban use people on the front lines who are completely defenseless such as children or people who have a developmental disability. And hide bombs and Taliban soldiers in villages. Its hard to know what's the right thing to do. And yes then America does get wrongly blamed for what are targets are.
  I would say one thing for sure is that we have to crack down on Pakistan as regards the Madrassahs. Those are supposedly schools but are training grounds for children to grow up to be fanatics and many are then directly recruited into the Taliban. Ultimately Pakistan and Afghanistan have to cooperate with us and not just the leaders but the communities as a whole or in allowing the Taliban to collect recruits they are only destroying themselves. I certainly as I posted did not like the idea of negotiating with the "moderate" wing of the Taliban. That's an oxymoron and we should by no means capitulate to any of them.
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535822 tn?1443980380
Oh ho .....this thread got pulled back up again,I would like to see Ms Poloski tell the truth that she knew about the Water boarding issue.At least the other supposed abuse pics arent going to be dragged out now, O Bama flip flopped on that one or someone close to him told him it would be better to play it down , however it has gone around the world already without the pics and abroad they are asking what have we to hide not showing them...
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Now she's Polish. Good job Pops
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765070 tn?1384873394
I still have not heard anyone suggest what to do to get the information out of the terrorists.  So, we can argue or discuss this point all we want but still I have not heard any solutions.  

Jd,  Oh, I do get it.  The problem is that since I do not agree with you; I am wrong.  We'll that is your opinion and I gave you mine.  I respect your opinion but I do not agree.   If my family member was one of the terrorists then they deserve to be waterboarded or whatever other method is needed to get the info. out of them.  And, noone really knows if this works since we are not releasing those reports.  How convenient!  

margy,  As far as Pelosi; she is the most annoying, obnoxious, liar in the House.  Besides, the other complete liar that we have not heard from since the suicide of Freddie Mac's CFO.  Oh, that would be Elmer Fudd aka Barney Frank.  It is amazing to me that Speaker of the House, Pelosi, was not briefed considering she is 3rd in command.  We'll she will never be held accountable since most members of congress get away with lying all the time.  I would like to find just one that actually tells the truth.  I really think that would be impossible to find.  

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585414 tn?1288944902
It would be really hard to decide what to do now. I am not sure if what was done was correct and if there were violations (those photos were depicting willful acts of abuse and sadism that went far beyond waterboarding and many were not in the course of investigations) what should be done but the problem is to release them would be to betray the confidence of American soldiers. So under the Freedom of Information Act if they are officially withdrawn it would take 20 years. The difficulty is as I stated there is no clear enemy. In World War II no matter how evil the other side was you knew who they were. And once the war was over they all surrendered. Al-Qaeda is not like that and their ideology can take root anywhere. It will be very hard to eliminate them entirely as anyone can pick up their ideas and act on them and take over a portion of a country. There are no easy solutions except to contain them where they are most active and defeat them there. A country that is economically prosperous and politically stable will not descend to fanaticism but in a reccession there is not much economic aid to go around. Ultimately, I like everyone else, would want what is best for America and that the troops be used wisely and that people support them. Other than that I can honestly say the topic brings up more questions than answers because there are no easy ones.
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535822 tn?1443980380
I knew you'd notice that one has a Russian ring to it dont you  think,.....You got it Melissa she is ...her nose is getting longer I think they'll have to toss her out...shame .
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