Is it me or does McCain look like he has plastic hands and arms as he held the microphone last night? Not to mention that he was walking like Tim Conway on the old Carol Burnette show (the little old man taking tiny tiny steps). He also looks like he has had a stroke with one side drawn - so does that leave us with Tina Fey (love those videos) to run this country if elected??? mmmm......let me think about that. She's pretty smart, but .......
I had respected his service - but last night with him wandering around while Obama was speaking rather than sitting down (like Obama did), and calling him "THAT ONE" - what was that about??? THEN, did you notice he diverted himself from shaking Obama's hand? I guess he thought "that one" might rub off on him or something. PLUS, he darted from the room leaving Obama and his wife to talk to "his friends" - the TN people that came to see them - I think the people there were MORE than happy to talk to Obama and his wife.
It was like someone had let Pappaw out of the "home" and wander around to make tacky comments while everyone is embarrassed for him. Come one Pappaw - go back to your room to eat the jello you nailed to the wall.....
Don't get me wrong, I haven't been an Obama supporter - but if Pappaw is all we have to choose .......
Not in the media he isn't. It doesn't count what people may say on here or on the street. I'm talking about respectable (or supposed to be respectable) media.
Did you actually read what I posted? Where is Obama being mocked and insulted like Palin? Where is Biden being mocked and insulted? He's been caught lying more than once and NOTHING is said! How about the fact that he ate recently at a restaurant and talked to the patrons there but the restaurant has been closed for 10 years?!
Here ya go in case you missed that one:
Biden lied about Afghanistan funding and missed the mark by 2000%. Anyone going to mention that?
Remember in last night's debate (October 2) that Joe Biden said he recently had a meal and talked with patrons at Katie's restaurant on Union Street in Wilmington?
Well it turns out that there is no "Katie's" restaurant in Wilmington.
Now what if Gov. Palin had made a mistake like that?
You are right, $6 a week for work uniforms is what I pay too, but do you know what the press would do if she came out with a shirt that had a big patch saying "Sarah" on one side and "GOP" the other, lol.
I get your point but, if you need to look a certain way to present yourself for the job and the company buys you clothes to wear, not keep as yours, but to wear as work attire it is not taxable to you. That is common business knowledge and practice.
"...DO NOT think that is the American way! Why should a rich person be penalized for his wealth?????"
Actually, this IS the American way. You obviously didn't read the link I posted earlier in this thread explain that.
And I'm not part of the liberal left. I'm a centrist and I have voted for Republican candidates. I don't vote along a particular party line, I do my own research and choose the person I believe to be the best person for the job.
And a rich person is not being penalized. Like I said, I'm a business owner and I will pay more taxes under Obama, but it won't kill me and my team of accountants will do a good job calculating my taxes--that's the advantage of having more money. When you earn more, it may appear that you are expected to pay a higher percentage in taxes, but you can also afford to pay good accountants who know how to save you LOTS of money. The people earning $30,000/year will likely be sitting at the kitchen table doing their taxes themselves and missing lots of ways to reduce the amount they have to pay--lots of legitimate write-offs to which they are entitled. And as a business owner, I will also have other financial advantages (under Obama OR McCain)--to promote more growth and jobs.
While the figures on the charts, showing an average of what each of us will likely have to pay, may look unfair to some, you would likely be very surprised if you compare the percentages of taxes actually paid between the person sitting at the kitchen table trying to make heads or tails of it (and likely missing things they are entitled to write off) to someone whose CPAs have come up with pages of legitimate write-offs.
So, that's my perspective. And I understand that if you've never been in that position--to have a team of accountants working on your taxes--you could not possibly know that.
Good Point. My argument is that when I was a Mortgage Banker - I was expected to buy my clothing myself - suits, shoes, etc., and I paid taxes on them - it came out of my net pay.
She has the income of a Governor and is being backed by the Republican Party - I get that she, her husband, and her little baby, should look nice. SHE should pay for them herself, and if she is going to donate them after the election - what is she going to wear then? It's all just rediculus.
I honestly got a laugh when I imagined her in a blue work shirt and pants that said "Sarah" on them. That was too funny.
Somehow - we have all gotten way off course in this little debate
Just out of curiosity did you ever check to see if you only wore those clothes as a part of you work function if they were tax deductable? I bet they would have been, the tax code is so complex and so unfair, that is why I like the "Fair Tax" and I am writing my Senators and Congressmen to support it and get it passed.
I am not a rich man, but I do ok. I have used fancy tax guys and found that good ol’ Turbo Tax works better at finding deductions for me. While I love math, I loathe accounting so doing taxes the old way is not a good option, but the tax programs are easy and readily available for everyone. There are places around me that will let those that can afford a computer use one for free as well as the tax software.
I had a wise and well off guy once tell me that taxes are a way you are making money, lol. I agree, I don’t think though that just because someone has worked hard and done well that they should have their money taken from them, disproportionately, and given to those that don’t want to try as hard. At least not by the Gov't, many people that have money do what is right and give to charities that make a difference. Life is full of choices and some bad ones are hard to overcome and some can’t be fixed they must merely be endured. However, for most people if they want a better life it can be achieved.
I hate making this disclaimer each time, but I know what will be said if I don’t
*** I want to make this perfectly clear once again, and I am sure that everyone will agree on this, if a person is truly physically or mentally unable to provide for themselves then is incumbent on all of us to provide for them.***
I agree with April about the Slander that Palin has to take....but HEAVEN FORBID anyone comments on Obama's affiliations and HIS LACK OF EXPERIENCE! What is it? 142 days in congress???? WOW!!!
Kudos to Cindy McCain to be able to buy those clothes!!! I think I sense a bit of jealously from some of the gals here!!!!
I guess the liberals cannot think of anything better to debate because they know that when it comes to important topics Obama loses every time.....the problem is, the media has brainwashed America into thinking that Obama is the Messiah and is untouchable..
My question again....
WHAT HAS OBAMA EVER DONE TO HELP AMERICA WHILE HE HAS BEEN A SENTATOR INSTEAD OF VOTING TO RAISE TAXES 94 TIMES, AND VOTING "PRESENT" ON PRACTICALLY EVERY OTHER ISSUE???
Suzi, did you see that SNL? Were you as appalled as I was? The thing was I went along with the Tina Fey thing for awhile and actually did think she was quite funny but the way the slandered Todd Palin was beyond disgusting and unbelievable. I even thought the way the treated Sarah was distasteful and not the least bit funny but she held her ground and kept her composure. Kudos to her!
"I don’t think though that just because someone has worked hard and done well that they should have their money taken from them, disproportionately, and given to those that don’t want to try as hard."
Well, the point I was trying to make is that it's not likely all that disproportionate (or at least not as disproportionate as many people would think). I think you'd be surprised if you compared the average percentage of taxes actually paid by lower-income people (who miss deductions) with the percentage of taxes actually paid by higher-income people (who get more deductions than you would expect). There is probably not that big of a difference in the percentages.
My husband makes a good living (he is not a business owner and does not get to take business deductions). As he earns more the deductions he is allowed to take decrease. Last year the percentage he paid in taxes was 35%.
The percentage owed for a tax bracket and percentage actually paid isn't necessarily the same, alikat--the percentage owed decreases when you have tax accountants who know every law and every possible write-off to help you decrease the amount owed. The final percentage paid for many higher-income bracket earners is a lower percentage than the initial percentage calculated strictly based on your income.
While we pay a lot in taxes, we also never even see the vast majority of the "income"--most of the "income" listed on our tax return already went right back into the business to develop new products, hire more people, and pay for excellent health, vision, dental, short- and long-term disability insurances for our employees and their families. But we still pay taxes on the entire amount listed.
Should we feel bitter and angry about this--should we perceive it as being "unfair"? Because we don't--not at all. We feel very blessed--very fortunate to be able to be in a position to be able to "spread the wealth". I feel very grateful and thank God every day. No way would I ever complain about any of it.
No, I did not see it, but I have heard. Figures, all media including the actors' guild etc are soooo far left that they lose all grounds of decency.....don't worry, Republicans can take it....but, we wouldn't dare do that to the liberals because they will cry NOT FAIR!!!
i need your accountants then, because our deductions don't really reduce our tax bill by all that much, and my husband is an accountant. i'm going to get after him later and tell him he needs to be searching a little bit more.
i do not in any way feel grateful to "spread the wealth". yes, "some" people truly need assistance, but there are plenty who choose not to carry themselves, for whatever reason. i went to college, to law school. i am still paying for it. my husband went to school. we worked hard, we ate ramen noodles many many nights. and now that we have found a comfortable standard of living, i feel no responsibility to spread what i have spent years working for around to everyone else.
It is wonderful that there are people in the position that they are so happy to spread their wealth...Kudos to all who feel this way!
However, I don't...First reason is because, although I make a decent salary, after my mortgage (yes, not a subprime one!) house bills and, OH YES! the TAXES!!!!! I don't have much left to s p r e a d!!!! I have charities that I support and give what I can. So I spread my "wealth" to where I want it to go...not where the government decides it to.
I would like to know where you get your figures. I have no idea what other people make or what percentage they pay in taxes I can only tell you what we paid and that was using TurboTax which should employ all deductions that are legal and legitimate. Don't you see any irony at all in your use of a "team" of accounts employed for the sole purpose of protecting your "wealth" while you espouse the virtues of "spreading the wealth". I guess that position is easier to swallow when it's other people's wealth.
By the way...while the McCain campaign spent 150,000 on clothes (which, the media doesn't report about the auction), Obama has spend $400,000 on FOOD!
What is he going to do, regurgitate it and then give it to the poor to eat?
Also, just more on the tax system: McCain promises tax cuts for EVERYONE. Obama promises to NOT raise taxes (not cut them) and to raise them on the top 5%.
Then, take THAT money and give it to the bottom 45% who DON'T pay any taxes. DISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH!!! Of course the poorer members of society are going to get a CHECK for doing NOTHING!!! If I was in that category, I would vote for Obama, too!
As for National Security, Obama's running mate, Biden even agrees that the other countries will be "testing" him...which is a way to say he is viewed as, to quote Hillary Clinton, "an unqualified, pathetically weak" candidate.
I AM STILL WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO TELL ME ONE THING OBAMA HAS DONE AS A SENATOR!!!!!!!!
#1) SPRINGFIELD, Illinois (AP) -- Barack Obama can honestly claim to have made a difference on a matter of life and death.
While an Illinois state senator, Obama was key in getting the state's notorious death penalty laws changed, including a requirement that in most cases police interrogations involving capital crimes must be recorded.
The changes enacted in 2003 reformed a system that had sent 13 people to death row, only to have them released because they were later determine to be innocent or had been convicted using improper methods.
"Without Barack's energy, imagination and commitment I do not believe the very substantial and meaningful reforms that became law in Illinois would have taken place," said author Scott Turow, a member of the state commission that recommended many of the changes.
Obama often cites his role in Illinois' death penalty debate as evidence that he can resolve thorny issues through compromise.
"We brought police officers and civil rights advocates together to reform a death penalty system that had sent 13 innocent men to death row," he declare in a recent presidential debate.
Enactment of the 2003 law was a huge political achievement in a state that had been deeply divided over problems with capital punishment.
Obama was at the center of the emotional debate.
#2) Obama also sponsored a Senate amendment to the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) to provide one year of job protection for family members caring for soldiers with combat-related injuries. After passing both houses of Congress with bipartisan majorities, SCHIP was vetoed by President Bush in early October 2007, a move Obama said "shows a callousness of priorities that is offensive to the ideals we hold as Americans."
#3) Obama Passed Illinois State Gift Ban Act "Heralded As the Most Sweeping Good--Government Legislation in Decades." In 1998, Obama passed the Illinois Gift Ban, which prohibited legislators, state officers and employees, and judges from soliciting or receiving gifts from a person or entity with interests affected by government. The Chicago Tribune called it wrote, "an ethics and campaign finance package heralded as the most sweeping good--government legislation in decades." The law also required greater campaign finance disclosure and limited the uses for which raised money could be spent. [HB672, 3R P 52--4--1, 5/22/98; PA 90--0737, 8/12/98; Chicago Tribune, 8/13/98; Chicago Independent Bulletin, 6/4/98]
I tink IMO that Barrach Obama is responsible for bringing hope back to the USA. It has been very difficult to hope in the last 8 years, and it will be a better than good move to have Obama as our next president.When I hear Obama speak, I don't see the color of the man, I hear the conviction in his voice. He understands people and their dreams to have a better life. My husband and I are also in the high tax bracket, and we will pay more taxes, so be it.I was as poor as a church mouse as I was growing up and I was determined to work and to have that of which I saw other kids have.
If by paying higher taxes will help put a smile on a kids face that's fine with me. We all need to remember that we could lose everything we worked hard for at the blink of an eye.Like I said in an earlier post, I was a life long repulican but I voted a straight democratic ticket this year,, and I feel great!!
Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised as a Muslim, and is a committed Christian. Further, this myth perpetuates unfortunate falsehoods about the Muslim-American community that are offensive to people of all faiths.
The Truth About Barack’s Love for Flag and Country
Barack Obama’s grandfather, a WWII veteran, taught Barack the Pledge of Allegiance when he was a little boy and helped inspire his love for America. But that hasn’t stopped smear pushers from claiming he’s not a patriot.
Fortunately, fraudulent emails pretending Barack won’t say the Pledge or put his hand over his heart are easily refuted by a video of Barack doing precisely that on the floor of the United States Senate.
If you don't believe it - look at this video. http://my.barackobama.com/patriot
Yikes, you all are scaring me. I'm not saying Obama IS the anti-christ but isn't it interesting how the Bible says the anti-christ will bring a false HOPE and a false peace. You all act like this man is God or something. Is there NOTHING wrong with this man? It seems he can do no wrong in your eyes. At least I said I could see the mudslinging from both sides and that they both have lied, etc. They both want to get into office. They're going to tell you whatever they think we want to hear.
It's not that he is perfect in ANY aspect. It's that we are having to defend this man who HAS accomplished things, HAS given hope to us, and who IS qualified. Most of us, I would say, feel the same about the McCain/Palin responses.
I think if we are given hope after what the last 8 years have given us - it's a very positive thing.
Trust me, I have heard that time and again about the anti-christ, etc., and grew up in the Bible belt - trust me, I have heard it all. I don't worship anyone or anything - except God, the Trinity.
Yes, it's an interesting concept, and I think we all have the right to use our brains and think about issues. I agree - it's interesting. Don't agree, but it's interesting.
Good, I'm glad you realize he's just a man! You had me worried there for a little bit, lol. You know what happens when you put someone on a pedestal. They topple of, of course. I just want everyone to not pin all their hopes on one man. No man is THAT good!
I am the one that called Obama "Osama" and I don't care what any of you think that didn't like it. I don't like him, don't trust him, he will ruin our country...It's so nice that angiesmom and cowgirlnerd have studied so much about him, they seem to know everything about him and the rest of us are all wrong or just a racist...WHATEVER!! I wish all I had to do was look into Obama's yes OSAMAS background and believe everything that I read (as long as it's the good stuff) for he has only done great things..HAHAHAHAHAH oh yes, what has he done since he has been a senator? ummmmmmm..............nothing, notta...but that is never mentioned by some people..
We hire an accounting firm--so they work as a "team of accountants".
My whole point is that people who can afford to do it, hire people who know how to minimize the seemingly "disproportionate" tax percentages. That is why there is not a flat rate across the board--if Bill Gates had to pay the same percentage as someone earning $20,000, he'd actually end up paying a much LOWER percentage than that person because his accountants would know about write-offs the guy earning $20K never heard of--and write-offs that don't even apply to him. The percentages seem disproportionate for that reason. It's not about "where I get my figures"--it's just simple accounting.
I could sit around boo-hooing about how unfair it is that my husband and I have invested all of our retirement money and savings, cashed in the few stocks we had, and second mortgaged our home to start this business; I could cry about how unfair it is that my husband and I work very hard and very long hours to grow this business while many others at our company are paid more than the two of us combined. I could whine about how I shouldn't have to pay taxes on money I never see.
But the point of my going on about all this is that I choose not to look at things from that perspective. I choose to focus on the good. I feel very blessed. There are A LOT of REALLY hard-working Americans who have been laid off because of the economy and who cannot find another job. There are ones who work long, hard hours for low pay and they don't have health insurance (I've been there). And these hardworking people hardly see their kids. And if they need help, I'm ok with that. Obviously many people are not. And that's ok--you're entitled to feel that way. Maybe it's just the Christian in me--I often think, "What Would Jesus Do?" and the answer is very clear to me.
Presidents and presidential candidates that the Religious "Right" have sworn were the
anti-christ in my life time;
So, it seems that every four years we have an election.
And every four years the Religious "Right" swears that the democratic candidate is the anti-christ.
So I'm curious;
Which one of these men is the real anti-christ?
Is it just a matter of convenience for you?
I'd be willing to bet that if I went back before my life time, the the R.R. claimed that the democratic candidates post Jimmy Carter were all "Anti-Christs" as well. Adele Stevenson, Hubert Humphrey, John Kennedy...
Agiesmom...it's quite obvious that you have a very high opinion of yourself. Good for you. What you are saying about percentages makes no sense to me but then again, as I said before I can only speak for my own family and I know we pay a higher percentage (quite a bit higher) of our income then those making less. We do feel blessed to be in the position we are in and we don't whine about paying taxes. However, I would not be thrilled to be paying even more taxes. I would much rather decide which charities deserve my help. I also come from humble beginnings and we have also made many and still make many sacrifices to have what we have. The great thing about the country is hard work and drive can pay off even when you have humble beginnings and obstacles to overcome. Now perhaps what you are saying is that people of wealth and particularly people who own businesses can tweak the system such that they can "get around" certain rules and regulations to make the "tax laws" work for them. Perhaps claiming personal expenses as business expenses and such. In that case I guess you can lower your tax burden. We choose not to do that. It's unethical. And I have faith that many others also feel that way. On this point I agree to disagree with you. Have a good day.
I really can't understand what it is you don't get about this to be honest. And it has nothing to do with "tweaking" anything or claiming things you should not claim or doing anything unethical. The fact that you inquired about such things shows you truly don't understand.
If H&R Block or TurboTax would work for Bill Gates (deduct all that he's entitled to deduct), why don't you think he uses either of those? Do you really not understand that if you hire a tax specialist who keeps up with ever changing personal and corporate tax laws and is familiar with all IRS forms (and there are a ton of them) that you may be more likely get most of the deductions to which you are legally entitled? And someone who works at a retail store may not claim the basic deductions to which he is entitled?
Let's use Sarah Palin as an example. I'm sure she didn't do anything unethical with her taxes, aren't you? So let's assume that is the case. After all their deductions, they ultimately paid 15% in taxes in 2007 and LESS THAN 10% in taxes in 2006. Do you think H&R Block did the Palin's taxes? Or that she and Todd sat at the computer and did them together on TurboTax?
Now, I happen to think this is extreme, but most people claim the Palin's deductions were totally legitimate and "...Robert Cross, first vice president of the National Society of Accountants, said the Palin business deductions were "typical middle America, John and Jane Plain"..."
We are all entitled to the same deductions, if we qualify for them. Whether or not we actually take them is another story. TurboTax may not ask you how much money you spent in gas at snowmobile competitions, but a tax accountant may.
Well due to my disability which I pay medicare insurance for my little income is dropped $3000 with no meds allowed on it. I am taxed on my gross. I have to add it as taxable income with my husband. When a person is disabled they have drs,meds,drs,meds,meds and more meds and more drs,and medical proceedures. Cash does have to be paid, transportation provided. Some drs don't take medicare, so most of the time my insurance through my husband will take care of a big part.My last proceedure I had to pay $300. Dosen't sound like much, but with everything else, it adds up. I paid money into that system for years and years, so I don't consider it a hand out. Our house is paid for from money my mother left me. We can pay utilities, even carry cable for enjoyment. My husband's paycheck has health care deducted before taxes, but pays taxes on his gross not net, so health care is added back in at the end of the year. Obama says McCain will tax heath care for the first time in history. I don't know where he gets that because it already is.The house makes the decision on all the regulations of this country and they are democrat. So, the President is Republican and gets the blame for eveything the country thinks it wrong. Spreading the wealth is Socialism, no matter what. Those of us Babyboomers are old enough to remember what it was like in countrys that the government decided everything for the people, the ethnic cleansing, done without mercy in countries. So we think the government is going to take care of us! what a laugh. Do you realize that the Federal Agents that protect the office of the president have very thorogh background checks, including every friend, associates, anything in their life that they were a part of. They talk to the people and check them out to make sure our president is safe. Do you know that Obama's friends and associates would cause him not to qualify for that position. He can be in the highest office of the country, yet not qualify to protect himself. Very sad. If you don't think it is true go to the FBI Agents and check it out. My question is didn't they do a background check on this man, or did they sweep it under the rug. It has nothing to do with skin color, it has to do with his background, that was ignored.It doesn't matter if he knew about them, it matters he associated with them. The agents had to qualify, why didn't a man running to lead this country? The media, I am sick of. Sarah Palin has been drawn naked by placing her face on another body and put up in a beer joint, her clothes are a subject (you think she should have worn her hunting clothes on the campaigns? to criticism. McCain's wife can wear what she wants she owns her business and spent years helping the needy. Who really cares about what anybody wears. Palin wants to serve her country and she is not dumb. I'd like to receive a check because of money saved like Alaska, wouldn't you? The media is in the gutter. They have taken an election that is their job to report what they know, not pick and choose who they want to win by trashing candidates and praising another putting up an image that He is The One. He is not God. Jesus is God in the Flesh, so that spot has been taken, though I have heard him called Messiah. So do we want to keep America or give away our freedoms?
Surely you know, RJ233, that Michael Savage says crazy things for ratings, right? Like when he said that autism isn't real and those kids are really just brats? He's a commentator who expresses his opinions. You don't really view him as a legitimate news source, do you? If he sat at the microphone and calmly reported facts, he wouldn't last long in the industry--you and the rest of his audience wouldn't listen to him if he did that.
I could wonder whether or not McCain and even Bush would pass (not sure if you can pass with PTSD or a DUI on your record or if those things in conjunction with something else currently unknown would be a problem), but if I were to express my thoughts on that, it would just be opinion and speculation.
Regarding "handouts", the entire point of paying into a system is so there is something in place to help those--perhaps YOU or your family members--one day if/when you need it. My mother was on disability (after working hard for 45 years of her life), my friend was on Medicaid before she died of the complications of diabetes at age 26 (she, unfortunately, didn't have many years to "pay into the system" before she died), my other friend had food stamps and help paying her utilities for a while after her husband was laid off from his job (that he had for 23 years).
Do some people abuse these programs? Of course--you really can't completely prevent that. Do some people draw more than they paid into it, like my friend? Yes. And others pay into it and are fortunate enough to never need it or only need it briefly. But the programs are necessary to help those in need, like you.
I would think everyone would be grateful that there ARE government programs--no matter how convinced you are at this moment that you or your loved ones would never need them and can't understand why you have to pay money for them--because, especially in today's economy, there are a lot of hard-working Americans who never dreamed in a million years that they would lose their homes or jobs and have to file for bankruptcy and be in need of help.
Regarding the House having a Democrat majority, do you really understand how it works? You need a supermajority (2/3) to make something veto-proof. So George Bush does hold the power and the responsibility to a great extent. It can't be pinned on the Democrats (like Savage, et al., may like you to think). If something the president doesn't like is presented simply as a majority, he can veto it. If he wants Congress to pass something, he makes a speech about how it has to happen now and then warns the Congress that "the world is watching". Under pressure, they try to pass something reasonable, with stipulations or conditions or limits. But, again, if the president doesn't like those stipulations, he just vetoes it and tells them to come up with something he likes better. Then you have the pocket veto and filibuster (for which you need a 3/5 majority to end). But I'll just leave it at that--I just wanted to let you know that it's not as cut and dry as Michael Savage may want you to think. The system isn’t that easily manipulated.
Michael Savage’s job is to try to incite you. It's much more interesting to listen to someone rant and point the finger at a particular group and blame them for all the wrongs in the world (and it does happen on both sides), but usually the truth is somewhere in the middle and total responsibility is never on one group.
And regarding Obama comparing himself to Jesus or thinking he's God, I'm wondering where people get that ridiculous accusation. Savage again? Hannity perhaps? I'd like a link to a quote he made saying that because I can't find one, or any reference to one, anywhere.
Well, it's not from Savage or Hannity - it's from politifact. They have found false statements with Obama and McCain and they appear to have done some research on this security clearance rumor that's been circulating in emails.
"If Barack Obama would apply for a job with the FBI or with the Secret Service, he would be disqualified because of his past associations with William Ayers."
"There is nowhere on the form that Obama's relationship to Ayers as it exists or existed would even come up," said Mark Zaid, a Washington attorney who specializes in security-clearance work. "It would never come up unless somebody mentioned it during a background investigation."
Moreover, even if it did come up, there's no reason to believe it would impede Obama's hiring, Zaid said. "Given what has been said publicly about their relationship, I can't fathom that it would ever get more than a moment's attention," he said.
A second lawyer specializing in security clearances, Elizabeth Newman of the Washington, D.C., firm Kalijarvi, Chuzi & Newman, concurred that the Ayers connection would pose no problem for Obama, even if it did come to the attention of the investigators.
"They would care if there was a recent relationship with someone who is currently on trial or currently considered to be advocating violent overthrow of the government," she said. "But not something that was 20 or 30 years ago."
A third security-clearance lawyer, Mark Riley of Odenton, Md., who is also a retired Army intelligence officer, was slightly less dismissive of the Ayers issue, saying it was "something they would investigate."
But Riley leaned toward the conclusion that the Ayers connection would not cost Obama a security clearance. "The issue is what is Obama's relationship with him in his adult life," Riley said. "If he didn't have one, other than they sat on a board and maybe had the same political causes, that's not enough to deny a fellow a clearance."
So all three of the attorneys we contacted agreed unequivocally that Obama's relationship with Ayers would not be an automatic disqualifier, as the claim suggests.
In fact, Zaid said someone with Obama's record – a law degree from Harvard, teaching experience at the University of Chicago Law School – would be an excellent candidate.
"The agencies would be fighting over him," Zaid said. "As an outright claim, this statement is false."
Something is seriously wrong if you are paying taxes on the pre-tax amount deducted for your healthcare premium contributions for your health insurance. The pre-tax premium contribution amount is deducted before your pay is processed (taxes deducted). At the end of the year, your premium amounts should not be included (or added back onto) the income stated on your W-2. The amount on your W-2 should be the amount processed as pay AFTER the pre-tax amounts were deducted. If the amount on your W-2 is your total annual income BEFORE your pre-tax contributions were deducted, then your employer made a mistake. That said, if you do the pre-tax contribution, you can not also deduct for healthcare premiums on your tax return as well. It's one or the other. You may want to talk to your husband's HR Director to find out if there was a mistake made along the way or to verify that there was not and you were just misunderstanding what was happening.
McCain wants to tax you on your employer benefits. So, if you receive benefits from your employer that total $1000/month in premiums, he wants that to be considered income for you. He wants you to pay Federal income tax on that (but not Social Security and Medicare taxes)--even if your employer pays all your premiums for you. It's the VALUE of the plans that he wants to be viewed as income for Federal tax purposes. So THIS is where the "taxing health benefits for the first time in history" comes into play for McCain's plan.
McCain also wants to allow the sale and purchase of insurance across state lines. He wants no federal standards to be imposed and insurance companies would not be required to cover preexisting conditions. That really could be a problem for you and anyone else with health issues.
Obama's site where if one wanted to get access as to where his funding is coming from, via a hacker or whichever...is NOW LOCKED. Just shows he is hiding all of his past from us. He can say what he wishes to all, but it is ILLEGAL for him to do this. Why isn't the government going after him for this? McCain has nothing to hide. I don't get it.
Obama has done absolutely nothing. A couple of awards, some community leadership role. That's it. There is the qualified candidate that folks want to sit in the white house during a worldwide crisis, and 2 wars...in which Obama DID contribute money to ACORN...The sum of 180,000 dollars if i am correct. Ya think Acorn wants Obama to win? I smell voter fraud all over Obama and Acorn...and if the government doesn't do anything now?..guess what..if Obama is elected....."Too Bad" Oh well it's not their problem.
My information about things is not from a late night program. The disability and taxation is what is in our tax booklet and on the back of the Disability Statement that I get and the paper that comes with it. All the deductions you have talked about, you have to have something to deduct, such as interest, etc. If it doesn't add up to more than the allowed deduction on the regular form then you have to use the regular form. If there is something different then it is not on the form. As a matter of fact we did not include an insurance income for disability and 4 yrs later had to pay the fed & state.
I have listened to the debates and watched the candidates speak. I have listened to different stations on the tv, to get an overall look of what is going on. I have spent time researching on the computer. So my views are what I have seen and heard from all sources. I don't believe every station or one speaker on some show or tv late night show. I don't even watch late night shows. I want to decide for my self who I think is going to make a good leader for our country when I vote, by listening to the candidates, not opinions. So I have no idea what you are talking about with the late night show and who I listen to. I think the candidates speak for themselves. The tax on the employers participation, I have never said anything but Obama said McCain would tax our insurance premiums. I never heard him say a word about the employer's participation and I have listen to Obama a lot. I am repeating what he has said over and over. I have heard him say he would make businesses carry insurance on employees, which will shut down small businesses. Small business make over $250,000. They pay a lot out of it, but as far as what they bring in can be a lot over that. I know a business that has 2 employees that gross $ 500,000. But, after paying for the lumber, etc, to build and his employers, gas and tools, he doesn't clear that. He only has 2 employees. What do you think higher taxes, and paying health insurance is going to do to his business. This is facts not some tv lie.
The qualifications of the FBI Agents are tight for a reason. I looked it up on the FBI site on my own out of curiosity. If it is that tight for a person trusted to protect our president, then it should certainly be the same for the person selected to protect our country. If past presidents didn't qualify then why wasn't it told. The Commander in Chief of our Armed Forces is of great priority. If every thing about Obama's associations were even partially true, do you think his influence by those people in the least, is going to affect us, or are you willing to put him in a powerful seat to see if he will? I'm not willing to put the fate of this country in the hands of someone I can't trust. I looked at Obama's record of the Senate. He had more presents than any votes. I listened to him say when they wanted to do something to bail out, help, or whatever to solve the crisis the whole country was in, "I'm staying on the campaign. If they need me they will call me." John McCain dropped everything to do his job. They are both Senators and get paid for doing their job as Senators. If he were the Senator of my state and felt his own future was more important than the people of his state and this country I would never vote for him again. His oath for his state was put behind his wants and needs. When the president has to send for him to get him there and he is suppose to be there to start with, something is just not kosher. Then, because McCain put his duty first (to be what he was elected for in his state), he was made out to be a bad person. Now what is wrong with that picture. He did what he was suppose to do, he took an oath and stood by it. Frankly, I was shocked by Obama's response.
The loss of homes came from banks that made bad loans. I worked in lending for years and years. Verification of income was not even required on those loans. People lie, I know. I never made a loan with out checking the qualifications of a borrower. We had to qualify to buy our house, and I'm sure you did too. The people that approved those loans, were unethical. When I was in lending, a copy of a situation with another company that had been sued on several counts for the same thing was sent to all of our offices. That company was making mortgages for people that clearly did not have the income to pay. When they got behind, they would repo and sell the house making a large profit. There are state and federal laws that lenders abide by. The state has auditors that check open and paid loans and they don't just look at the disclosures and charges, they have calculators in hand, going through with a fine tooth comb. If you were found at fault of deliberately abusing a borrower, and it was a patten, you could be shut down, period. Company's buy and sell all the time. So, making the headlines for that is stupid. The bad paper, the banks could have saved a lot of the loans by going from a variable rate that had topped, increasing the payments so they were not able to be paid, to a low fixed rate, even a longer term and reduced those payments, making them affordable. People get behind all the time and lenders know how to help them, unless they made a loan that the person could never have paid, in which they should have paid fines over. I sent loans through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They cut a little slack in credit history, but not enough to have an effect. So, they dropped the bucket and knew exactly what they were doing. The people responsible should have had every asset they had taken from them,sold, putting that money right back in the company, and put in jail. The law says ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law. So, people, even employees that took part in that with their signature of approval is just as responsible. Creating a crisis is a diversion to panic the public and who ever sounds like they are going to solve that problem people will back. They don't even look at the picture. Faith in the government is only made by facts, not who sounds or looks the part. If we have a crisis of being threatened by other countries, we need someone that knows what they are doing. We have an important election here and the media has done this country a grave injustice by not sticking to facts that they have checked out to be the truth.
I'm not sure how Medicaid deductions and taxes work, RJ--maybe there is some catch or something where that is concerned--but I can tell you for a fact that how I described pre-tax premium contributions above is how it works for an ordinary employee with ordinary healthcare coverage and pre-tax deductions. I know this because this is how we do it at our company.
And, like I said, if you have benefits through an employer that cost your employer $1000/month, you will be taxed on that amount as income under John McCain. I'm surprised anyone would be ok with that--especially McCain supporters.
Here's info on McCain's plan and what the $5000 credit would really mean to workers and employers alike:
The report mikesimon posted above (in case you didn't read it):
A couple of more links to pages refuting false claims against Obama's tax plan:
The whole "suspending the campaign" was just weird. And totally unnecessary. A president should be able to handle more than one crisis at a time. McCain was very dramatic, extreme, and weird. I'm thinking his fans are the only ones who were impressed by that.
Thank goodness the only sites I used was the FBI and the Gov. to see the records of Senators and any other info I wanted to see. I went to Palins Official Website and started reading and something just wasn't reading right. I went back to the top and it said "spoof" in little bitty letters. Many never even knew it was a spoof. They were telling her how they supported her-----. Then, there was a comment against her, and they asked them if they didn't like her why were they on the site. That is how believable those sites can be.They even had a big picture of her at the top of the site, so normally you would not know it wasn't real. Is it because she is a woman that they have done every dirty thing they can to her? I'd like to see a picture of the other vice president running, in a bar naked. Think that would stir up trouble? If the guy was going to paint one, he should have been fair and painted the other. If it had been me, if I had to fly to get there I would have and went in there and took it out after giving the owner a slap in his face. That is why I'm not in public office. As a woman, I find it sick. Pictures from behind, of her legs. Why don't they just tar and feather her? All women should have their voices heard about that. What happens if there is another woman running for the same position next time? They treated Hillary bad. I think they need to be put in their place.
As women, few have said anything about it. We had to fight to vote, now we have to fight to have respect from the public news? ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and the rest of the large networks ought to be ashamed. It is not a matter of the party she is in. I haven't seen naked pictures of any of the men hanging in a bar, have you? It really makes me angry. If they don't like what she stands for, fine, but her body, her baby, her family!! No woman will ever want to be in politics if they are going to be treated like that, and it needs to stop!! Women have just as many rights to be protected as any man. It is not just a matter of fair, it is a matter of respect. It is not ok to belittle a female and treat her like trash, and laugh, especially across the nation. We have daughters that see this, and young men. What is that going to do to our daughters! When a man abuses them, they will think they are suppose to be treated that way. The guys will think it is OK to disrespect and mistreat females after laughing with the rest of the males. It has been accepted across the nation. It is NOT OK, for any reason. They were even ugly to John McCain's wife. Yet nobody has raised the roof about it. For women that is not a good sign. Hillary is not in the final running, so they didn't get a chance to get down and dirty with her. They are all woman. They are putting women back a hundred years, actually we had more respect a hundred years ago.
It was interesting to see that some how something is going on with the FBI qualifications. I went to the website of the FBI just to see what they were of my own curiosity. Just because I thought of it, doesn't mean I can't think for myself.
Were do you people get all this stuff from, it is no wonder people think every body is fabricating information. If you know what whoever or whatever you figured I got my info from, of which I still don't know who or what it was suppose to be, then you must have spent your time listening, watching, or reading it. If you think it is all lies, why would you waste your time on it? Glad I missed it. Ranting and raving on programs will never accomplish anything. There used to be a saying,"Don't believe anything you hear and 1/2 of what you see". If you search for the truth long enough, you will find it. This is an election, not a war. We ARE the people. We have to "know" what the person taking office is going to do. Politicians lie. They always have and always will. It is up to us to dig, and dig. Forget ranting people trying to make you believe something. Our children and grandchildren are at stake. Their freedom and happiness. United we stand, Divided we fall. We owe it to them and to this country to seek and find. It is not the face of the president we elect that is important. Like John Kennedy said, "It is not what your country can do for you, It is what you can do for your country".
I agree that someone running for president should have any information available to the public that is suppose to be. Citizens have every right to know exactly what that person is. If they have closed info that we are entitled to know, then, I would find other ways to search records: Senate, State, Local Government, or what ever means available that I knew would give me the truth. It is not wrong to want to know the truth, it is wrong to hide it.
You are correct, i am posting flat out lies about it all. did you miss the part where i said i didn't wish to post tons of links? All that does is start a whirlwind of total differences that go back and forth and the conclusion ends up oe remains with their own beliefs. I have links ..plenty...if you wish to research them alll ..hey by all means go for it. I will not sit and argue with ANYONE that is always correct. You think i have not done my research? I have my son in the military, my husband who as of late is without work as the housing industry is down the tubes. and my own health problems. I've researched all that i need 2 believe me. Sorry but i will NOT post links and links ..to get myself riled or anyone else. Simple truths have helped me with my vote. Yes you as well have not got ALL the facts straight, good luck if obama wins..there goes our right to bear arms, radio broadcasting and more Thanx for the insult.
Now Obama has cut off a TV station who asks about his connection with Marx. Also his website where you can give donations...accepts every donation with a credit card, that is NOT scrutinized as to who the card actually belongs 2. McCains' checks the viability of all it's webstre donations. The cut of of thee interview? Straight from the mouth of the interviewer of that station in Fla.. What does Obama want to keep hiding? The credit card varification....on alll News stations. If you shut out everyone who asks pertinent questions..how is that good for people to make a decision on who to vote for? These are fair questions. Obama refuses to answer anything!. Biden as well skirted questions..Couldnt he have said ..who said that? They "choose" to not answer..in other words...nunya bus.
We may have a nunya bus president..
snoozies, I've done in depth searches and I cannot find one website, credible or not, to support anything you say. I can see where saying you just don't want to post them is better than just admitting the truth--that you don't have any--or posting links to websites of nutty bloggers who listen to Sean Hannity. But hey...whatever works for you.
Rj233, A hundred years ago?
Women may have had more respect 100 years ago (depending on your definition of "respect") but women didn't have the right to vote. I call that a serious lack of respect but - that's just my opinion.
Women got the right to vote in 1920. Some states afforded the right earlier but it was not constitutionally mandated until 1920.
When you make a credit card donation to Obama you are required to provide:
the name on your credit card
the credit card number
the expiration date on the card
the 3 digit security number (I am not certain of this but I think so)
I haven't seen that issue addressed anywhere. I'll look around.
I didn't mean to suggest that the job and the employer are relevant to the credit card. They are relevant to identification of the donor however. I also think that would constitute scrutiny "as to who the card actually belongs to" similar to what any site requires when I use my credit card online.
I merely responded to your contention that:
"Also his website where you can give donations...accepts every donation with a credit card, that is NOT scrutinized as to who the card actually belongs".
Wow - that was very interesting! These are items that actually happened in the last few years! Not 20-30 years ago! I guess under previous implications of guilt by association - (Obama and Ayers), then that would make Palin - ......a Successionist? ??
I also found this interesting, evidently McCain's army failed to find this bit of information, thank you Jade for sharing, my husband was livid after he watched it. That woman is the last person on this earth that is so unqualified to even think of running this Country. Can you imagine what the USA would be like if she had her way. Scares the hell out of me.
I wonder if that information on her association with the individuals wanting to be independent from the US would keep her from getting security clearance??? hmmmm..... :) - Isn't that kind of like - treason? OH MY!!!!
Bottom line people..............especially the Obama/Osama-bots...........if he gets in office then our country will go straight down the toilet, are you all blind and deaf? Oh wait, that's right, you only believe what you want to, like bits and pieces of his terrible speaches, he is just a smooth talker that just wears a suit well, that's all...I hope you are ready for socialism, and may God be with us. I pray that God helps the undecided make the right decision, McCain !!
I truly question whether some people know anything at all.
Why are we now heading towards socialism if Obama becomes president? It can't be because he wants to increase the tax rate on the wealthy because we have had a progressive income tax for quite a long time. It can't be because he foolishly said that "we should spread the wealth around because we have had socialistic programs for a long time - social security, medicare
You are kidding. I never said when we got the vote. What difference would it make. It doesn't excuse anything.
And with this last comment, I leave this. These things aren't making any difference about anything. It IS okay to treat ALL women like they did Palin, and every body is wrong no matter what. You can't THINK for yourself because if you do, you HAD to have a source from somewhere that LIES. EVERYBODY knows it is a LIE, because they spent their TIME finding every LIE that could BE. And anything beyond that is a LIE. We can't find the truth because we all LIE, except the ones that KNOWS who is telling the LIE. How can anybody learn anything? We can't even swap info, because if it doesn't fit, it must be a LIE and they will BELIEVE the LIE. By the way I found one of the dissections between one of my comments, that was done. At the time I read the comment I had no idea you were cutting me up because I didn't know what you were talking about. I guess it goes with the comment we should expect at least as much from a president as an agent, huh. APPRECIATE IT GUYS.
"And with this last comment, I leave this. These things aren't making any difference about anything. It IS okay to treat ALL women like they did Palin, and every body is wrong no matter what. "
I'm not sure what background you have or how you were raised, but NO one on this thread said anything about treating women bad. This election is driving people nuts, both sides. And why? Republicans are afraid that Obama is going to get into their pockets, and Democrats Know that we can not have another 4 years of the same. It bothers me a hell of a lot more to have my tax dollars sent to Iraq, than to have my tax dollars spent helping those who need help right here in the USA.
This thread was desperatly needed, so that we all could actually see how the other feels. But the above post is really upsetting because some people are determined to come out the victor regardless of how much hurt they inflict on one another. Some people are going to be very worried, and the other side will be down right peed off on election day.
Now I'm going to get back under my covers and hope this flare passes soon, Thank goodness I voted early, I might not have been able to on election day. Take care all.
Remembering when my son enlisted..right out of high school he left 5 days later for the military. Was my nose glued to the events in Iraq? Youuu betcha..Hussein was being funded by terroists....to keep his lil country and it's people under comunist law. Did the terroists just fly overhead and drop him little packages of warfare and ammunition? Iraq is the central catylist for the war in the middle east. A war of religion. Let's not kid ourselves..If the terroists are i the US....They are now and were then in Iraq. Hussein was working closely with Syria....where did the 14/15 semi- trucks we spotted leaving Iraq headed toward Syria ..dissapear to? What were they carrying? I don't have a doubt. As a mother of a veteran....I KNEW very well..what my son was headed for. so the terroists we NOT just sitting on Iraq's brorders. Iraq had already been infiltrated with the terroists...just waiting on "The Word". Well.. we gave them OUR word..before they had a chance.
Oh and all those that think we went there for oil...well nix that idea... we would have had that by now. it was never about oil. It was about securing our freedoms and others..which meant to take out Hussein and his terroist backers..so we could have a stronghold...in the area that is the central catylist for the war on terror....and We DID it. Amen for the surge. 12 of the 18 provinces in Iraq are now prospering..
You can't see Pain in the "seat",,,well McCain will be in it most the time ok? Well I CANNOT see Obama/Osama in it...I'm entitled to my thoughts and opinion just as much as you.. I just don't think you really see what Obama will do to this country, and if he wins at least I won't be getting the blame. I'm not insulting anyone, just trying to figure out why your opinion or anyone else's is ok but only if you are an obama lover.
While Obama scares some it is interesting that military men who served with or have known John Sydney McCain find him a pretty scary prospect to be sitting in the Oval Office.
["He's going to be Bush on steroids," says Johns, the retired brigadier general who has known McCain since their days at the National War College. "His hawkish views now are very dangerous. He puts military at the top of foreign policy rather than diplomacy, just like George Bush does. He and other neoconservatives are dedicated to converting the world to democracy and free markets, and they want to do it through the barrel of a gun."]
[.....In fact, his wounds were attended to only after the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a Navy admiral. What has never been disclosed is the manner in which they found out: McCain told them. According to Dramesi, one of the few POWs who remained silent under years of torture, McCain tried to justify his behavior while they were still prisoners. "I had to tell them," he insisted to Dramesi, "or I would have died in bed."]
Dramesi says he has no desire to dishonor McCain's service, but he believes that celebrating the downed pilot's behavior as heroic — "he wasn't exceptional one way or the other" — has a corrosive effect on military discipline. "This business of my country before my life?" Dramesi says. "Well, he had that opportunity and failed miserably. If it really were country first, John McCain would probably be walking around without one or two arms or legs — or he'd be dead."
[Even those in the military who celebrate McCain's patriotism and sacrifice question why his POW experience has been elevated as his top qualification to be commander in chief. "It took guts to go through that and to come out reasonably intact and able to pick up the pieces of your life and move on," says Wilkerson, Colin Powell's former chief of staff, who has known McCain since the 1980s. "It is unquestionably a demonstration of the character of the man. But I don't think that it is a special qualification for being president of the United States. In some respects, I'm not sure that's the kind of character I want sitting in the Oval Office. I'm not sure that much time in a prisoner-of-war status doesn't do something to you. Doesn't do something to you psychologically, doesn't do something to you that might make you a little more volatile, a little less apt to listen to reason, a little more inclined to be volcanic in your temperament."]
[Dramesi, who went on to serve as chief war planner for U.S. Air Forces in Europe and commander of a wing of the Strategic Air Command, was not surprised. "McCain says his life changed while he was in Vietnam, and he is now a different man," Dramesi says today. "But he's still the undisciplined, spoiled brat that he was when he went in."]
Don't kid yourself, snoozies--wrongly assuming it wasn't about oil since they didn't go in and boldly take Iraq's oil while the world was watching does not negate the fact that we went there for reasons other than getting the terrorists who attacked us (since they were in AFGHANISTAN)--make no mistake about that:
And don't be foolish, 2WB--Palin could very well be in the "seat". John McCain's very first "test" to determine if he's fit to be president was to choose a running mate who was totally capable of being president from day one (no matter how likely YOU may think that is or not).. He failed that test. Badly. He showed incredibly poor judgment. While she may have temporarily gotten the base revitalized when it was almost dead, I think it hurt him more than it helped him--the help was short-term and now it's become a liability for him. I know many Republicans who were voting for McCain until he chose Palin--most of them said they're staying home on Election Day. That was a selfish POLITICAL decision--not a PRESIDENTIAL one. There was no regard for our country when he made that decision. Very poor judgment.
Thanks for your post, mikesimon--I've read quite a bit about military people supporting Obama.
Again, suzi, lucky you to have more than $250,000/year in your purse to worry about. That said, what exactly do you think our entire tax system is about anyway? Money is taken from all via taxes and redistributed--and that's how it's been all along. You make no sense.
No, you are wrong...not with the way Obama wants it done. He wants to take from the rich (250,000+) and give to those who do NOT even pay into the tax system! To some degree we have it now, (And I hate the way it is run now, also) as you said, but not to the extreme as Obama wants it. Obama wants to PENALIZE the wealthy...therefore, corporations etc will have to downsize and won't be able to prosper..people will lose more jobs, therefore hurting the economy....By giving them a tax cut, and ALL WORKING AMERICANS..(not cuts for people who don't work as it is) like McCain wants, then these corps and big businesses WILL prosper, creating more jobs, therefore strengthening the economy. THIS IS WHAT REAGAN DID and the eighties had to be one of the best decades, thanks to a REPUBLICAN..who inherited a disaster from Carter.
With Obama's plan, the rich are just going to hide their money more, not going to be putting it back into the economy by spending it on luxury items, therefore, once again, hurting the ECONOMY.
And, when the Wealthy's money is not available to give everyone in the USA more freebies than there are now, it is going to come down to THE MIDDLE CLASS, paying for all his programs.
In the last few days, I am sure that you ahve heard what is going on with the tapes released with Obama's "marxist view" by constantly saying "redistributing the wealth" or changing the words slightly.
Aggie, I am scared for the working class Americans, because I am one of them!!
hmmm.... suzi does not have more than $250000 in her purse through LUCK. more likely, through very HARD WORK, possibly tons of student loans, many years of struggling herself, and now that she has it, i guess it's ok to tax the hell out of it. i don't get that logic.
I see example all the time of people using tax shelters, and loop holes to avoid paying taxes. While I agree that no one likes to pay taxes, but they are needed. When you look at what those taxes are being used for is it really that bad?
Ask the people that watch the bridge in Minnesota collapse if they think that tax should be rasie so that infastructure can be repaired or even maintained. Ask the man who is trying to decide if he should pay his heating bill or get his prescription filled, if he thinks that Universal Healthcare would be a bad thing.
I have heard comments on the news that state "Why should I pay for my neighbours bills?" I hear this and I think that this is one of the biggest flaws with the American dream. Everyone is looking out for themselves. There is this image of the rugged individual that everyone thinks that they have to live up to. What ever happened to the idea of community?
What happened to ensuring that everyone is being taken care of? Now there is such a greed mentality amoung everyone. And I will be the first to admit that the social safteynets that currently exist are far from perfect, but imagine where you may be if they didn't exist?
I would be more than willing to pay more to help out my nieghbour or my community if I knew that if I was ever in trouble that they would return the favour.
ensuring that everyone is taken care of is an entirely socialist ideal, it is not the goal of a democratic nation. sad, but true. in your world, there is no reason for me to work hard, get through school, take out $100000 of student loans (which I did) work 60+ hours a week until I was able to buy a house. because really, if i do NOTHING, someone else can take care of me. that's the flaw in the logic.
I am not saying that you should do nothing. What I am saying is that there needs to be a middle ground between this ultra-extreme capitalism where I will do anything as long as it puts a dollar into my pocket mentality, and the other extreme were you don't need to do anything because someone else will be there.
What needs to happen is that the people need to take back control from the boardrooms. Why do you pay so much for healthcare, because its a business. I'm not saying that healthcare should be free, but it shouldn't be all dollars and cents either.
And the goal of a democratic nation is not to ensure that one works his *** of just to provide for his/her family. The democratic nation was created so that each person may have their say in how the government is run. So by that criteria, is America a truely democratic nation? When is that last time that you have sat down and actually read a law that was being passed by the house or senate? When is the ;last time you talked to your local representative? or better yet, when is the last time that they asked your opinion on the issues?
In a truely democratic nation your voice would be heard, and no one voice would rise above any other. Together that choir of voices will lift up in to the sky and carry that nation into greatness.
Too much of our taxes already go to "taking care" of others...the problem is, I would bet more than 1/2 are able bodied citizens who are more than capable of taking care of themselves!
I have no problem with taxes..Yes they are needed to "care for the community" in areas as roads, education, police, fire, sanitation etc....BUT to pay for someone to sit home and reap the rewards who is capable is unjustifiable.
I would say approx. 35% of the money I earn goes to paying taxes, and I am SICK OF IT! My husband is out of work due to an illness....is the government helping me pay my mortgage??? Absolutely NOT! So who IS the government helping??? The people who PAY NO TAXES!!!!
As for the racism: I am totally sick of it also:
Yes, there are so many people voting for Obama because he is black and many voting for McCain because he is white...that is a sad thing...
If McCain had affilliations with known terrorists like Ayers, he would have NEVER got the nomination.
If McCain went to a Church that was full of White Elitists as Obama did with Rev. Wright, he would not have gotten the nomination.
If McCain received contributions from the former CEO's of Lehman Bros., Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac....there would have been a scandal and would have had to step out of the race.
If McCain was involved in ACORN as Obama is, and gave the million or so dollars to support it, it would have also been scandalous.
If McCain had the inexperience of Obama, he never would have gotten the nomination. But yet, because Sarah Palin doesn't have a lot of experience (YET, MUCH MORE THAN OBAMA) all of a sudden it is considered a liability....BUT NOT FOR OBAMA!!!
The media has been totally biased for Obama....if it was for McCain, it would be considered racist.....
I think there is something wrong here...does ANYONE ELSE SEE THIS????
I correct myself, to say that this nation is based on CAPITALIST principles, not SOCIALIST ideals. that is why you are rewarded for hard work, and there are no provisions for "all" including those that don't contribute to the taxes, gaining a windfall from that (if you don't think that is true, look at the EITC, wherein you may not actually owe taxes, but you get a refund from the government!!! and no one sees a problem with that!)
Teko...yes, we agree! I truly agree that this debate has not created enemies.....either way, we will all have to get up and go to work the next morning...and either way, we all want the best for our nation.
My mother always said do not discuss politics or religion!!!!
Please take a look at my new post on Holiday Traditions and lets create some memories...
I really enjoy reading your posts, it's so nice to see a Republican on this forum that "gets it".. I understand all that you have said, I get it. It's just very sad that people can't understand "facts" and don't understand what will happen if he gets into office. SCARY! I know I won't feel any guilt because he won't get my vote, and I think whoever said let the Dems pay the higher taxes is right, they voted for him! I too am tied of supporting the welfare, illegals, and so on, it's just not right. If Osama gets into office it will only be worse, I work hard for what I have and I should be able to give to whom I want, not pay higher taxes because of my income. Too many people have gotten too many free rides and it needs to stop, quit enabling it people. I think his plan will lead to some people hiding more money, not claiming all they make and business owners will start paying people under the table, and I would really like to know how that is good for the economy? Some don't get it, so keep writing suzi-q, I am with you 100%..
The gist of Barack's message tonight (from what I've read--hasn't aired here yet) is "choose hope over fear and unity over division". There's no place for Fear where there is God. May God be with you, 2WB.
Suzi, I will go and check out your Holiday Traditions thread! And I'll agree to disagree with you (for now! ;)). Peace be with you, too.
I've also decided to move on, this thread has gone about as far as it can go . Same people repeating their **** over and over. But before I say good night to you all, and tell you that I enjoyed the debate on this thread, I have one more thing to say.
You are by far the meanest spirited person I have ever run into. You speak as if you are above the rest of us, and I have to tell you that we are all equal. I am so embarrassed to know that I was a part of a group of people that believe the way you do. After voting a straight Democratic ticket this year, I will never go back to being a republican. If you don't watch yourself, you'll grow to be a mean and hateful old woman. And it is I who feels sorry for you.
You don't know me, you just don't like my opinion, I don't really care what you think, you aren't exactly the sweetest sounding person on earth either.. after reading your comments I am elated that you will never be a republican, for I am emabarrassed of some of the comments you made.. so get off you high horse and look in the mirror, you are very mean spirited yourself, don't insult me just because you are a very unhappy sounding person... get real and keep your comments to yourself if you can't take someone disaggreeing with you...have a nice life
Specifically, National Review writers want much more attention paid to the association, given that the LA Times has reported that Khalidi lavished praise on Obama at a farewell party in Chicago at which Bill Ayers was also present. (Other writers have accused Khalidi of being an aide to Yasser Arafat, a claim which Marc Ambinder and Ari Berman have suggested is not credible.)
In regards to Khalidi, however, the guilt-by-association game burns John McCain as well.
During the 1990s, while he served as chairman of the International Republican Institute (IRI), McCain distributed several grants to the Palestinian research center co-founded by Khalidi, including one worth half a million dollars.
A 1998 tax filing for the McCain-led group shows a $448,873 grant to Khalidi's Center for Palestine Research and Studies for work in the West Bank. (See grant number 5180, "West Bank: CPRS" on page 14 of this PDF.)
The relationship extends back as far as 1993, when John McCain joined IRI as chairman in January. Foreign Affairs noted in September of that year that IRI had helped fund several extensive studies in Palestine run by Khalidi's group, including over 30 public opinion polls and a study of "sociopolitical attitudes."
Of course, there's seemingly nothing objectionable with McCain's organization helping a Palestinian group conduct research in the West Bank or Gaza. But it does suggest that McCain could have some of his own explaining to do as he tries to make hay out of Khalidi's ties to Obama.
I started this thread as a general comment about Paul McCain's apparently failing health and questioned his ability to serve 4 terms. I am happy that it has led to some spirited debates regarding the issues surrounding this very emotional campaign.
We are all emotional because it is important to us - each of us. What we have to maintain in perspective that in this country we are entitled to an opinion, and that we can chose whomever we please. My hope is that the choice is based on facts and those facts to be verified. There is a lot at stake to be "whatevering" and a just because attitude - when it comes to my children's future.
If you believe that McCain is the best person to be President - by all means, vote for him. My opinion - which is my opinion - is that you have not reviewed the facts associated with the issues. My opinion also is that Obama does not have all of the answers, but he provides hope to those of us who in the economic crises today have lost a lot. He has factual - verified factual - answers to questions that I personally have that affect my family.
I don't believe that it is our right - however, to make slanderous comments and ignorant - yes I said it - ignorant comments such as Osama/Obama. It's not that Obama is a person higher than anyone else and shouldn't be scrutinized - but comments such as those are rediculus and ignorant. Ignorant is not a "dirty word" - it's merely a statement of a person who is unaware or unskilled in facts concerning a topic".
Your opinions are your own and you are entitled to them - just as Angiesmom; kiddthekat; mikesimon; teko; savas; myself; and others have expressed our beliefs in this emotional issue. My wish is that emotion not influence your opinions - intelligent discussing of the facts - that is how decisions should be made.
So, I hope that those that continue in this VERY LONG thread - continue to discuss intelligently, and if you have something positive to question - based on fact - (thank you mikesimon), by all means, do so. Those of you that are spewing garbage - feel free to jump off of this thread - start your own if you want. I would appreciate opinions and facts to be discussed - questions to be answered and personal attacks eliminated.
I don't possess the ownership of this website or this thread - but we can all use this forum to discuss issues very important to us. Facts - people. (again, thank you mikesimon; teko, angiesmom; savas, etc.) I would love to hear some actual facts from the Republican supporters. We can continue to be helpful to each other in understanding all of the ISSUES concerning this campaign - after all, we are less than a week away from the decision.
Osama/obama, yes my opinion, I don't appreciate the ignorant comment, to me there isn't much difference between the two, if you don't like me calling him that then don't read my posts. We (republicans) have posted numerous facts but you (the dems) have failed to listen, you only hear what you want, so frankly if you don't get it by now then that is just sad.. I just pray McCain wins because I am sure then you will see that what we have said all along is closer to the truth than Obama/osama will ever get...
I am seriously worried about your well being, you proved my point and that is you don't pay attention unless it benefits your candidate..so good luck being blind to the truth and getting through life being a total lefty... and if obama the osama wins, GOD help us...
"You don't know me, you just don't like my opinion, I don't really care what you think, you aren't exactly the sweetest sounding person on earth either.. after reading your comments I am elated that you will never be a republican, for I am emabarrassed of some of the comments you made.. so get off you high horse and look in the mirror, you are very mean spirited yourself, don't insult me just because you are a very unhappy sounding person... get real and keep your comments to yourself if you can't take someone disaggreeing with you...have a nice life "
Yeah...she's a real "beam of sunshine", suzi! LMAO! (I suppose we can add this to the list of things on which we can agree to disagree! ;D)
I've seen nothing but baseless opinions from republicans on this thread. No facts at all.
And thay is why I am voting for Nader or McKinney. ROFLMAO.
How about this one people. McCain is against abortion but for abandoning the parents when the child needs assistance, has special needs when there smarter than other kids. Receives 100% disability for injuries that other vets can't get a 10% disability for. Plus he was not borne in America and shouldn't even be able to run.
For Obama? Look at Illinois political machine. Our governor. He is from the same corrupt machine.
It is clear what will happen to this country if Obama is elected...has anyone searched what happened in the great depression..and what made it happen? TAXES. Obama wishes to RAISE taxes in a time of a national crisis.
Obama also called white people "crackers" and "typical white people " in his book, he forgets he is bi-racial, not a complete african american, that's him playing the race card. Really sick of that whole thing, and yes he can't make up his mind about anything...And I don't think I should be taxed more because I work hard, or should I say I don't want a handout but it seems like some think they deserve it even though they don't work for it..we are only enabling people by giving "handouts"... Now let's see how mean and terrible I am...glad you are really listening to the facts suzi-q and snoozie, makes me feel a whole lot better :)
I've been absent lately, had a nice holiday in the hospital, YUK!! But I'm back. I see that the controversy is still going strong, but I dare to say that this will be nothing compared to what it will be after election day. I see that I have a lot of reading to do, so I'll be back after I play catchup.
When you step into the voting booth we all need to know exactly what we will get if the candidate we vote for is elected. Below is a side by side comparison of the candidates and what they support or stand for along with websites that you can verify the information contained in this email. We must be informed voters. Pass it on to everyone you know.
2008 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE COMPARISON TALKING POINTS
ISSUE JOHN McCAIN BARACK OBAMA
Favors new drilling offshore US Yes No
Will appoint judges who interpret
the law not make it Yes No
Served in the US Armed Forces Yes No
Amount of time served in the
US Senate 22 YEARS 173 DAYS
Will institute a socialized national
health care plan No Yes
Supports abortion throughout the pregnancy No Yes
Would pull troops out of Iraq immediately No Yes
Supports gun ownership rights Yes No
Supports homosexual marriage No Yes
Proposed programs will mean a
huge tax increase No Yes
Voted against making English the
official language No Yes
Voted to give Social Security benefits to illegals No Yes
CAPITAL GAINS TAX
MCCAIN 0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.
OBAMA 28% on profit from ALL home sales. (How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to down-size your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.)
MCCAIN 15% (no change)
OBAMA 39.6% - (How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.')
(no changes) Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250
OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts) Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750
Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!
MCCAIN - 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)
OBAMA Restore the inheritance tax Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.
NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA
New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet. New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren't high enough already) New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity) New taxes on retirement accounts, and last but not least....New taxes to pay for socialized medicine so we can receive the same level of medical care as other third-world countries!!!
You can verify the above at the following web sites: