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535822 tn?1443980380
Sara Palin leaving Office
Okay guys lets have a good healthy debate, I have heard about Sara  Palin, what are your views on her leaving, did the media drive her away, the attacks on her family, or she just couldnt cut it.  I am not doing a Poll not everyone likes them, so come on we all love a good debate.I believe  she is thinking about her family and knows that if it has been difficult to cope with now it would get worse as the next 3 years go by. I cant blame her she has a great family to think about.and it must affect them.What do you all think.?
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Page 5 of 5
585414 tn?1288944902
I would like to read them. If someone has a link to any of them and has read them I would like to as well. If there are two bills being proposed its only fair that I read both of them. I did bookmark the bill proposed by the democrats on health care reform (no idea why that thread went down) and I started to read it and I'd be more than happy to read the one the republicans propose.
  Two things I disagree with are stifling other people's viewpoints or the other political party. That's not how America works. And also I'd like to see which out of any bills on either side has less political pork that is completely useless because frankly that's the one that would interest me more. I do think of America being that its July 4th. I'm happy to be alive in a literal sense and I'm sure other people here are as well. The more divisive politics becomes the less progress America will make and if president Obama is part of that then I can honestly say I respect him less and less as he promised to unite America and frankly I'm not seeing much of that.
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707563 tn?1455827280
You have asked us to let you know when things are getting heated, and when we are closely monitoring a thread.

Debating is fine.  Disagreeing is fine.  Someone can disagree with you without it being abuse.

This thread is getting very close to personal insults.  People are reporting a bunch of things from this thread, and very little of it is actually abuse.  We are trying very hard to not "censor", as it has been called, and to let things be, but when people start making it personal, then we can't let it go.

It's all outlined in the Terms of Use.  In case you missed it, here it is, and I have copied and pasted the applicable rules:

http://www.medhelp.org/termsofuse.htm

Rules for Posting Questions in Forums and Public Areas

MedHelp Public Areas, which includes all areas of the MedHelp Site where users may post content, are for the exchange of information and support ONLY. In consideration of being allowed to use the Public Areas, you agree that the following actions shall constitute a material breach of these Terms and Conditions of Use:

6.   Posting material that is unlawful, obscene, derogatory, defamatory, threatening, harassing, abusive, slanderous, hateful, or embarrassing to any other person or entity as determined by MedHelp in its sole discretion.

and

17. Engaging in any other conduct that restricts or inhibits any other person from using or enjoying the Public Area or the Site, or which, in the judgment of MedHelp, exposes MedHelp or any of its customers, partners or suppliers to any liability or detriment of any type.

Every member of MH must agree to these when they joined.  You all agreed to adhere to these.  

Please keep in mind that we work very hard, along side MH's members, to make sure that MH is a safe and supportive environment for everyone.  These "debates" carry over into the specific communities you all belong to, and that affects how safe and supported people feel.  

If you must debate politics, then please stay on topic (this one has gone way beyond Sarah Palin), and refrain from insulting anyone else, and that includes people who are not in your chosen political party.

Emily
MedHelp Moderator

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I just wish people could be more tolerate and respectful of others views.
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I'm just a member like anyone else. I'm sorry that you are offended by my views and feel the need to leave as a result. I honestly did not break any rules and/or mean to offend anyone. I do enjoy political debates from time to time and especially when I feel the need to jump in on certain discussions.

We all have that right, including yourself and I do respect your views.
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585414 tn?1288944902
Its still the same place and there are many issues we have in common. To me at least. We all face many of the same issues as people with disabilities which many of us with our recovery issues are. And we all are using the same right to free speech that we are entitled to under the constitution. Not everyone has that right in some other countries. And many of us are affected by the reccession as well. Of course we won't all have the same opinions but our right to express them is part of America and on today of all days we should all think of that. Myself included.
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Thank you for being present in this discussion. You know I'm wondering if MedHelp should stop allowing political posts altogether ? To be honest with you, I actually don't like to read negative posts about our President and like some other members... when you read these things, you feel the need to jump in the discussion and offer your point of view. Since this is a health community, perhaps it would be best to do away with the political threads ? I don't like censorship at all... but this is a health community.
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Exactly ! That is what makes our country so great !

God Bless America !
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585414 tn?1288944902
Its not an easy time for many people due to the war and reccession. Let's just think about what we have in common and remember that the only opposition are the terrorists that America is fighting against to preserve our freedom. We all have the right to our opinions on any side of the political spectrum onsite and off.
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203342 tn?1328740807
Well, I hope MH doesn't stop political debates. That's what America is all about, freedom of speech. So, we're allowed to like or dislike our president or others in office. We're allowed to discuss and debate these things, and for that I'm grateful. A lot of countries are not allowed to disagree and can be imprisoned or executed for speaking out. I thank God I live in America, land of the free!

I do think we should keep things civil, though. I know we can do that and still get our point across.

As for the original question, I was wondering the same thing, whether she's getting ready to run for 2012? I guess we'll find out. It would be interesting to have a woman president, wouldn't it?
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535822 tn?1443980380
PS..The Water boarding .... was 3 terrorists.. Were you respectful of President Bush ?  
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535822 tn?1443980380
I have come in from a Patriotic Parade , to hear there is talk of removing my thread , I dont see any really personal attacks I see one  liberal member trying to stop 'Free Speech.'. I think Med Help is intelligent enough to see this. Thank you all guys for the input, it read pretty good to me ....Happy Independance day
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585414 tn?1288944902
Free speech is something we all should value as its clearly a first amendment right. I am going to pass on any opinion on the original topic for this one day. I am glad to be physically able to leave the house at all (as part of my physical recovery) and yes I am thankful to be an American. I do hope everyone has a happy July 4th as well and I will be leaving for a while which is something I have not able to do in a long time. When you are unable to do something you realize how important it is and the same is true for any political freedoms that sometimes we take for granted as the Declaration of Independence guarantees them. We can continuing debating on this topic on a more low key vein another day. Have a good one everyone..
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707563 tn?1455827280
"Free Speech" is a phrase you all toss around a lot.  While we do have free speech in this country, you all also agreed to Terms of Use when you joined.  I copied and pasted that above.

You can post ideas, beliefs, etc.  No one is "censoring" that.  What we do limit is attacks on other people, making these "debates" personal, and doing anything that disrupts the safe and supportive environment MH strives for.  There are very few internet sites that don't have some form of Terms of Use.  Deleting posts or threads has nothing to do with free speech, as your beliefs don't violate the Terms of Use.  Personal attacks do.

MH doesn't really have the time to worry about who voted for Obama, Bush, or anyone else in their lifetimes.  We have way too much to monitor to worry ourselves with who is on what side.  Please work with us to keep this a place that is safe and supportive for everyone, not just those who agree with your political beliefs.

Emily
MedHelp
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535822 tn?1443980380
Thank you Iladvocate and I hope you have a good day, I went to a terrific Parade with lots of great kids singing and dancing to the patriotic songs I love, then I went on to a Tea Party ..I was astounded how many people were there.,did some signing of petitions, now where were we, oh yes ,  I think you are right April when you say maybe Sara is getting ready to run in 2012,I didnt spot that I thought it was because of her children and Family..  Have a good 4th Guys ..
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203342 tn?1328740807
Amen, MH, I agree! We should be able to speak freely but still remain respectful with each other. I also agree that everyone should abide by the rules and not get abusive or personally attack anyone. I believe we can all have a great discussion without things resorting to that. Thanks so much for the great job you all do here! We do appreciate all that you do. :)

Happy 4th to everyone! I sure hope it doesn't rain here tonight since it's raining right now. We've been getting afternoon and evening showers almost every day this month. *Crossing fingers that the fireworks will still go on tonight!*
Happy Independence Day! :)
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Medhelp said in its above post:

"People are reporting a bunch of things from this thread, and very little of it is actually abuse."  

I really would like to know who "the people" are clicking these "report" buttons.  I know, I know, that is why they are there but give me a break, click the report button when there is really something to "report" as in calling each other inflammatory names, profanity, threats etc.

I've read every post on this thread 3 times and have yet to see what the cause for the "reports".  Are we adults or is this a Kindergarten class??

Debates get heated at times and not only political debates.  Some people who are big fans of a certain singer/movie star get very emotianal/mad if their idol is criticized.  

Find any board where you can have a one sided, always agreeing with each other debate, not even strictly Liberal or Conservative boards always agree with each other, and it too gets heated at times.

Does that mean we now have to walk on eggs reading over our posts several times before we post them to make sure somebody wont click the "report" button on us??

How can I recommend this board to anybody who asks me where I post with this  asinine stuff going on?  

Do people actually think I always like what certain people shoot back at me??  I would NEVER click the "report" button no matter how mad I should get.  I respond and give my piece of mind.  If people are THAT sensitive then they should not post on public messageboards.  

Again, nobody on here called anybody a name, threw insults at anybody, threatened anybody etc.  If you feel your President/former President got insulted then defend him.  That is what debates are all about.  BTW, nobody called Obama or Bush any inflammatory names, we gave opinions.

Frankly, I don't see what the problem is.  You can't go through life being that sensitive, "report" when there is something really to report about.

Its only a messageboard.  









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535822 tn?1443980380
Me also I came in the hose been to a great Tea Party guys..... put on MH Social  to catch up ...saw it was getting pretty good made a remark and it got deleted all within a few .secs .....Someone else was reporting I expect one of our little Trolls....
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535822 tn?1443980380
I even came in the house aswell as the Hose...someone kindly pointed out it was 'Fat Finger' causing that, on the other thread the other day before that got deleted ...My fingers are skinny but I do hit the keys at a funny angle the husband has lifted the keyboard for me and it seems a 'bit' better.
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535822 tn?1443980380
well its time to just risk it its Independance day I cant believe I am having this kind of chat on this day of supposed Freedom .....
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203342 tn?1328740807
Barbarella, You've made an excellent post. That puzzles me too. Why on earth would people hit the report button if no one is abusing the rules? All that does is cause more work and more headache for MH. If people get that upset about something then maybe they should leave it alone until they've cooled down. I honestly have seen nothing wrong with anything I've seen in this thread.
It really is ok to have different opinions and agree to disagree, folks.

margypops, I think I remember the fat finger comment and I don't think it was directed towards any one person. Being fat fingered is an expression meaning making mistakes or typos, which we all do at some point.
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I actually agree with all of you guys and here I was debating you. LOL !  

What I don't understand is if some MedHelp members do not like these political discussions, then why in the world would they bother to open this thread in the first place ?? That just doesn't make any sense, does it ? Politics goes along with illnesses.... we have healthcare to discuss and other important issues.

Some of us really enjoy political debates, although I do admit that sometimes I feel the need to jump in when I see posts about Obama.

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I think platelet gal did a wonderful job of standing her ground. Kudos to you girl. Did you feel just a little outnumbered there?  I asked a question a while ago, and it was instantly deleted. Im not sure I understand that. The word liberal, is used quite a bit. I want to know what a liberal is because it does not sound like something nice they way it is being used? Can someone explain what the meaning of a liberal, in referring to politics is?

As far as Palin goes, I dont like the woman, and I dont dislike the woman. I dont care that she quit her job or why. For whatever reason she decided it was in her and her familys best interest and I dont think she cares much about what I think about it one way or the other.  I could be snide and point out all her inadequacies and you would rebut me with her qualities. So to what end does that serve? Personally, I wish her well, whatever she decides to do. I will not use her situation to attack and belittle President Bush, (I happen to like him too). Nor will I blame Obama for being elected because we thought he was the Great Black Hope, I think someone called him. We live in troubled times and have become seriously divided in this great nation of ours. These debates ALWAYS seem to end up being about whether you are a rep or a dem, not remaining on topic. I think some of this is deliberately put down just to c it go there.  People are passionate on both sides, might we just leave it there.IMO  Okay, just dont hit the face people! (Ducking and squinting). Remember? its the 4th!
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I see it this way... either we continue to discuss politics and MH agrees to delete posts that are in violation and not delete posts that are NOT in violation of MedHelp rules. Members who don't like these political threads should stay out of them. Members who participate in the discussions simply follow MedHelp's rules.

Also MedHelp can decide to not continue on with these political threads. I actually wouldn't blame them if they choose to do this... only because of the hassle and because this is really a health community. I know that I have been personally attacked today by someone who wasn't even posting in this thread, who just jumped in out of nowhere and let her anger out on me. I just don't understand where that came from or why that happened. Anyhow... if you don't like politics, then you shouldn't be reading these threads. Its really that simple. And why waste your energy getting upset ? I'm tolerate of all views and so I rarely get upset in these political threads.

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765070 tn?1384873394
You know you are right about that you have always been very respectful of my views and even though we strongly disagree on many political issues, we definitely agree that we must be able to voice our opinions.  As you can see, I have not gotten involved with this thread, due to the most recent problems with others being so rude and obnoxious.  So, that of course, was my decision to not be involved.  But, we do need to be able to debate issues respectively and even though we all do not agree; I can say that we all agree that America is the best country and that we all deserve freedom.  

God Bless all of you and Happy 4th of July.  And as my mood quote says:

Then join hand in hand, brave Americans all! By uniting we stand, by dividing we fall. John Dickinson
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203342 tn?1328740807
It's true this is a health community but this is the social forum, which I think MH made for those of us who like to talk too much, lol.
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535822 tn?1443980380
April I didnt mean it was said as an attack I meant that someone managed to explain my mistakes, with the keyboard,,,, you misinterpeted what I meant ,I was actually happy to hear someone else hits the wrong keys as they had said that they thought bad spelling and Grammar was inexcusable,that was yesterdays deleted thread , incidently someone has hit the dlete button again on a previous post I did  on here earlier and there was no personal stuff. I was also told by a mod  that there has been an objection about the term liberal being used.....humm..
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649848 tn?1484935765
I agree that this is a health community, but I also have to say that the political issues facing us these days definitely affect health issues.  As people lose jobs, health insurance, etc, it can't help but bring on stress, depression, and various other health related problems.  There are as many different ways to look at an issue as there are people posting.  

I'd hate to see MH stop allowing the political debates, because this is a fun place to come; but I was attacked in one of the deleted threads and I can guarantee it's no fun and totally uncalled for just because we don't agree.  

Like PlateletGal said earlier - sometimes, I just have to jump in and toss my opinion out there..  Nothing personal to anyone.  

Hoping everyone is having/has had a great 4th of July...
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885702 tn?1240945863
Personally I can't stand the woman. i see her as representing everything that is wrong with this country. She strikes me as intuitive but stupid.

That said, she's facing a number of investigations and potential criminal charges that could very well go away due to an under the table cut deal as part of the resignation package.

She just finished her 18th inquiry into corruption charges. Eventually, something is going to stick.

But there's also the issue of her book deal. As Governor the exact workings of that deal would have to be vetted. Resigning gets her out of having to worry about any close scrutiny on it.

Finally, she's a member of a church that believes the husband is the overall head of the family, and there is some question that her husband is behind her resigning. I don't really put to much credence behind this one though.

However, considering he's a major separatist (Alaska should secede from the United states), her husband's obvious influence is probably a worrisome issue.

Otherwise... resigning as Governor to run for President is a fairly stupid move. Considering the excuses she gave, the Democrats will have a field day with her should she decide to run.
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649848 tn?1484935765
Don't hold back, Baron, just let it all out there...........lol

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458072 tn?1291418786
If no one hit the "report" button, then where did this come from?
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657315 tn?1319494987
Darn, things keep getting good when I'm gone for the day.  I have one more week of out-of-town visitors before I will NOT miss so much - like the LAST time a thread was deleted.

MH *NEVER* got involved back when there was heat when Bush was in office....so is it just because people can't take it with Obama?  IDK...just speculating on the difference as I'm seeing it.  Maybe when it was about Bush, no one was hitting the "panic" (aka, report) button.  But, some Obama person IS hitting it...?
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535822 tn?1443980380
There is talk that one group was attacking yesterday, it is usually the other way round on many threads ,they can be checked if anyone cares to scroll down, I have been battling it out with all the Democrats sometimes alone,  ,am I allowed to say that as some dont like the term liberal and reported that fact yesterday that I was using it, I will abide by that and use the term Democrat from now on if that is okay..
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Well, it got deleted yesterday right away Margy, but I am the one that asked what liberal means in re of politics. So, I take it that is supposed to be a democrat? I truly wanted to know and still do, but it appears at least from your viewpoint that it is a dem? Hmmm, Well I am not a dem.
I would also like to point out that I am the one that attacked barb in the last post to go down. So, for those of you who did not know it, which I find hard to fathom, you now know.   I am sorry for my approach to making that point, however I am not sorry on the point itself. I truly wish the thread had not been brought down. I think it had good stuff in it.

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585414 tn?1288944902
People's disagreements on this forum aside I'd be interested to know the history of when the word "liberal" became an insult. I know some people not agree with all of his policies but F.D.R. was generally a well regarded president and he did refer to himself as a liberal. I would agree that the counterculture in the 60's did a lot to detract from certain standard American value systems but many of those people have changed their political outlook since then even if they didn't change their overly permissive attitude towards society. Political forums are complex. I was on one where almost alll the people were quite anti-American to the point where it was ridiculous such as multiple discussions on "conspiracy theories". There was one person who was quite conservative and to the point where I did disagree with them but since they were always mocked by the other people I did support their right to their opinion and even though I alienated some people, many people began to support me for that stance. When I read through the letters to the local paper I don't skip through the ones that don't support my political viewpoints. In actuality those interest me the most because sometimes I missing out on genuine concerns people have and do want to know what they are.
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Actually, I used to be democrat and then changed to independant. I tend to listen to what one is about, I either agree with em or I dont. I know lots of people that are one or the other and will vote down party lines no matter what. That never seemed right to me, maybe I just dont understand that. I find that I like certain things that all have to say and tend to go with the one that best fits my personal stance on things. I think whichever party we are, we all tend to do that. And that is what makes it so passionate. I do not think any of us are going to change anyones mind when it comes to issues for that reason alone. But it sure had divided us as a people that is for sure. I think that is also evident on the forum.
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535822 tn?1443980380
Yup barb I darent answer him..Baron.... they will ban me for sure..talking of banning I hear Brian(,jollyman)  has been banned anyone see what he did wrong and who he personally insulted?
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793305 tn?1493929118
Holy cow, I leave off for most of the 4th and our little discussion went full blown debate...I have read thru a lot of stuff here and have found a lot to fire back on, but in light of our new found friendships...I'll try to behave.

But I would put this one thing out there...If Sarah Palin is such an ethical person, why is she facing all of these lawsuits to start with?  Ok, they were uncovered by "radical dem favoring newscolumnists during the run for vp"... (and that is meant as a joke) but you can't find what's not there.......soooo, it was found............

Oh and sorry...I did say b--b's on site, I probably should have not done that...My original point is that it takes more than someone just being a woman to get my vote. It does take someone with good ethics, someone who is kind, but she will also have to have the ability to be really tough sometimes and maybe even not very likeable....she will have to be more of everything because she is a woman and though it is changing this (politics) is still more of a home team for man...so to speak...So the first woman prez will have to be more everything...more tolerant, yet more tough, able to care for friends and family, but able to put those aside, able to make the right decisions and yet able to make the decisions that are not as popular, able to make mistakes and then to know what to do to fix them and do that without losing face....
I have yet to vote for a woman, dem, repub or ind....I have only ever seen one that I thought could handle the job and I didn't like her enough to vote for her.....
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765070 tn?1384873394
First of all, Democrat has two different ideologies Liberal and Progressive:  

This info is from a article called Political Axioms
Sat, 01/05/2008 - 7:28pm — shystee
From a recent article by Teh Krugman:

"Liberal: people who want things like universal healthcare, out of Iraq, privacy rights, help for the homeless, good public schools, justice, equality, etc... "
"For Liberals the ultimate goal in politics is to get Democrats elected."
  

"Progressives, on the other hand, know that progressive policy is possible (and necessary, real soon) and want to fight whatever stands in the way of making it happen."
"For Progressives the ultimate goal is the enactment of progressive policy."

Another example is:  "On the foreign policy front, it seems to be that liberals are those who bought into the "grave threat" of the Soviets during the cold war and currently take seriously our need to fight a "war on terror". Said differently, liberals back the military-industrial complex and are not about the threaten the jobs of America's bomb and missle makers simply because they are irrelevant."

"Progressives however, realize that America cannot be the world's policeman and that it is ludicrous to spend more than the total of all other nations on the military in an era when our greatest threat is from small bands of terrorists."

"Liberals support the empire, progressives oppose it."




Now as far as Republicans they have two ideologies as well:

Republican:  an advocate of a republic (usually in opposition to a monarchy)

Conservative:  conserving or tending to conserve; preservative
tending to preserve established traditions or institutions and to resist or oppose any changes in these

Actually Micheal Savage wrote a article today July 5, 2009 explaining the difference between Republican and Conservative:

"Republicans are for AIDS money to Africa. Conservatives are for aid to working American citizens."


"Republicans are for letting the free market decide that $5 a gallon gas is OK.
Conservatives are for compelling foreign oil producers to increase production and reduce prices, by force if necessary."



"Republicans are for bailing out billionaire money manipulators on Wall Street while you wait in line at the hospital behind an illegal alien. Conservatives are for letting Wall Street hucksters pay for their own mistakes and sending the illegal back to Mexico."



"Republicans are for letting market forces decide if your food has fecal matter in it. Conservatives are for enforcing basic food safety standards so that Mexican farm workers can't **** in the fields and make you sick. "



"Republicans think bringing in illegal aliens is an amnesty. Conservatives think brining in illegal aliens is a travesty."



"Republicans want a strong global economy. Conservatives want a country. Republicans think that child porn on the internet is freedom from government. Conservatives know that smut is a poison that must be snuffed out.
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535822 tn?1443980380
I actually as a then, registered democrat voted for Hillary as I saw her as a Moderate Democrat, I am not so certain now,and certainly as I have now reregistered I dont think she would have been good, she doesnt say much now does.... she kind of hides under a rock.,,staying out of the way.....
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Thanks Melissa, According to that I am a prgressive conservative independent with a dash of dem and repub. Oh gee! How did it all get so complicated anyway! lol

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765070 tn?1384873394
I know it really is complicated because people make it that way.  If it would be the same as when my Grandmother was into politics most were Democrats.  She was back when she was in her 20's but after all the differences were brought into the parties then that is when she changed to Republican.  

I just wish that we would have more choices, as far as political party.  As of now, we only have two choices since any other choice is extremely limited.  
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Melissa, I know what you mean, back when I was a child, my Dad always said Republicans were for the rich and Dem were for the poor. That was our lesson on politics. lol  Wouldnt it be nice if it were that simple?
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765070 tn?1384873394
LOL, yeah it would be nice if it was that simple.
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535822 tn?1443980380
Oh Crumbs melissa I hate to think what I am I better try figure it out in the next 3 years, I think OBama seems to fit in the progressive mould ....?
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535822 tn?1443980380
Gut feeling is I am Conservative .....
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765070 tn?1384873394
This is true that Obama does fit in the Progressive mould.  

As far as me, I am definitely a Conservative.
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649848 tn?1484935765
Based on Melissa's post, I guess I'd have to say I'm conservative because I certainly believe in taking care of our own before we start taking care of the rest of the world.  We have too many people in our own country who work and still can't afford to buy gas, pay an electric bill, buy groceries, or afford medical care.  It's just plain wrong that we spend so much $ on other countries, including (or especially) the illegal aliens that are coming in daily and going straight to the welfare office to sign up.  

I think the bottom line here, folks, is that we ALL want the same things, we just have different ideas about how to go about getting it.  
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458072 tn?1291418786
what are all these lawsuits and legal problems with Palin? I haven't seen any.
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885702 tn?1240945863
Heh heh... I post, and go away to celebrate our nation's independence day with popcorn, cats, and fireworks!!!

the second two do NOT mix well. :-)

Apparently what I said was upsetting to some...?

Quick comment; I beleive the word "liberal" became a dirty word around the time of the McCarthy era and communism, when the word was tied into communism by the conservatives. In fairness to them, some liberals did toy with communism, just like during WWII in Britain some Conservatives were siding up with the Nazi Socialist party.  

You will find that there has been a shift in politics from the 80's to now. The democratic position now is essentially the position that the 1980's republicans had (minus one or two issues) while the republican party is...well, the republican party. :-)

An interesting bit of info here and i say this with the express declaration I will NOT get into a debate on this issue and don't think we should bother too. not the point of this. The point here is how ANY political party can radically change it's message to fit the desire to gain power;

Before the Civil Rights movement, the Republican Party made little comment on the abortion issue and, overall, supported it's legalization. It wasn't until the failure of the republican party in opposing desegregation that the whole movement took hold. It's generally viewed that the republicans were looking for a new issue, ANY issue, they could unify behind. This just happened to be the one they focused on and thus changed policy over.
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535822 tn?1443980380
Didnt upset me ,didnt want to risk saying something would offend you LOL  
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