Aa
Speaking in Tongues
Do you believe in being annointed by the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues?
One more question: Do you believe that only people who believe in Jesus Chris will get to heaven? What if they are good people with good hearts?
One more question: Do you believe that only people who believe in Jesus Chris will get to heaven? What if they are good people with good hearts?
Wow. You have demonstrated it is possible to have a discussion on a normally bitter and controversial topic in a civilised and respectful way. My trust in the generosity and love on this planet has been reinforced now. Long may it continue.
Good post. I agree with what you said about spirit realm etc. I was going to post the first time this thread was up, but too lazy to type and STILL too lazy :o) But its a subject that once I start talking, I can't stop. I talk alot to begin with, but even more on this subject - but you covered alot and thats good!
Nighty-night,
MO
Nighty-night,
MO
Jumping in a little late on this question. Haven't been to the site in weeks. I missed my friends!
I believe in the Bible literally. I didn't come by this decision lightly. I realized that to be a true Christian is to be a follower of Christ. To be a follower of Christ, I had to know as much as I could about him. I have never been one to swallow something just because someone told me about it. And, I am from the Show Me state, so SHOW ME. That's the attitude I had when I began my quest to make a decision as to what I really believed in, for everyone has to answer that question in one way or another at some point in their lives. What we believe in (or don't believe in) dictates what and who we are,essentially. But, I approached the Bible like this: I decided that to make a decision, I had to be educated. If I was going to learn about God, and if He was all that He said He was, then He could stand up to my scrutiny and questions. If not, then I didn't want a God like that.
I had a Living Bible, which made the Bible readable to me, but I researched how it was translated to make sure that it wasn't some weird version that distorted the true meaning that the scriptures were intended to convey. When I was satisfied that the version was okay, I set out to find out just what I would believe in. I decided to start with the new testament first, since it was most pertinent to the times in which we live. I made it to Revelation and decided to wait until I read through the old testament, then would go back to Revelation with more understanding, which turned out to be a very good way to go. Along the way, I asked God questions when I got to things that didn't make sense to me or that I just didn't understand. I had no church, no Christian friends, and no one to ask questions of, so I figured if God was all that, that He could answer my questions. I swear to you, every question that I asked I either suddenly began to understand it, or weeks or even months later things would happen that would bring that particular question to mind and show me what it meant. I figured, who could teach me better than the author?
I decided that I believed what the Bible said because God did show me things. If the Bible is true, then the spirit realm is very real. I believe that the spirit realm is more "real" than "real life". The reason being, that if God is infinite, and we are finite, then we, who are flesh and blood, are just inserted into this infinite spirit realm for a tiny amount of what we refer to as "time". This makes the spirit realm far more credulous than we give it credit for. That would make Satan real, and it would only make sense that he would want us to not believe in the spirit realm at all. That way, he can go on his merry way and do whatever he wants to make mankind suffer. This concept is well justified in a book called The Screwtape Letters, by C.S. Lewis. (A really good read and food for thought) Anyway, for what it's worth, that's my lowly opinion. Just a drop in the bucket of my beliefs, but the reason behind why we believe is often very important.
On the subject of speaking in tongues, I felt that mikesimon brought up a very valid point. The practice of glossolalia is, in fact, practiced by Christians and non-christians alike. It is the giving over of the control of the act of speach to a spirit being. This can be the Holy Spirit, or it can be a fallen spirit. But, again, that ties in to the thought that the spirit realm is very much there, whether we can see it or not. I was always taught as a child that speaking in tongues was "from the devil", so I made up my mind that the Bible wasn't worth believing in if we had to decide that part of it was true and part of it was not. It was either true or not, so I decided that if part of it wasn't true, then none if it was. I vowed to steer clear of the church and all that it represented for the rest of my life. I did that for years until I came to a point in my life where I decided that this matter of what happens to us after we die had to make some kind of sense. I saw the "intelligence of design" with my own eyes. How could something so excruciatingly complex as the atom, or the double helix or a few billion other phenomena have just formed out of chaos? I have never seen order come from chaos. Ever. I have seen order deteriorate into chaos, but never ever the other way around. The Bible does even say that (partially summed up in my words) man is without excuse even if he is never taught the gospel, because all he has to do is look around him at the way things are made and the complexity and wonder of it all. The only reasonable conclusion that one can come to is that something beyond all human comprehension is behind all this. Okay. I'll stop now. The subject is a never-ending one and could go one forever. Thanks for letting me express my opinion. If you've hung in there and read all this, kudos to you!
I believe in the Bible literally. I didn't come by this decision lightly. I realized that to be a true Christian is to be a follower of Christ. To be a follower of Christ, I had to know as much as I could about him. I have never been one to swallow something just because someone told me about it. And, I am from the Show Me state, so SHOW ME. That's the attitude I had when I began my quest to make a decision as to what I really believed in, for everyone has to answer that question in one way or another at some point in their lives. What we believe in (or don't believe in) dictates what and who we are,essentially. But, I approached the Bible like this: I decided that to make a decision, I had to be educated. If I was going to learn about God, and if He was all that He said He was, then He could stand up to my scrutiny and questions. If not, then I didn't want a God like that.
I had a Living Bible, which made the Bible readable to me, but I researched how it was translated to make sure that it wasn't some weird version that distorted the true meaning that the scriptures were intended to convey. When I was satisfied that the version was okay, I set out to find out just what I would believe in. I decided to start with the new testament first, since it was most pertinent to the times in which we live. I made it to Revelation and decided to wait until I read through the old testament, then would go back to Revelation with more understanding, which turned out to be a very good way to go. Along the way, I asked God questions when I got to things that didn't make sense to me or that I just didn't understand. I had no church, no Christian friends, and no one to ask questions of, so I figured if God was all that, that He could answer my questions. I swear to you, every question that I asked I either suddenly began to understand it, or weeks or even months later things would happen that would bring that particular question to mind and show me what it meant. I figured, who could teach me better than the author?
I decided that I believed what the Bible said because God did show me things. If the Bible is true, then the spirit realm is very real. I believe that the spirit realm is more "real" than "real life". The reason being, that if God is infinite, and we are finite, then we, who are flesh and blood, are just inserted into this infinite spirit realm for a tiny amount of what we refer to as "time". This makes the spirit realm far more credulous than we give it credit for. That would make Satan real, and it would only make sense that he would want us to not believe in the spirit realm at all. That way, he can go on his merry way and do whatever he wants to make mankind suffer. This concept is well justified in a book called The Screwtape Letters, by C.S. Lewis. (A really good read and food for thought) Anyway, for what it's worth, that's my lowly opinion. Just a drop in the bucket of my beliefs, but the reason behind why we believe is often very important.
On the subject of speaking in tongues, I felt that mikesimon brought up a very valid point. The practice of glossolalia is, in fact, practiced by Christians and non-christians alike. It is the giving over of the control of the act of speach to a spirit being. This can be the Holy Spirit, or it can be a fallen spirit. But, again, that ties in to the thought that the spirit realm is very much there, whether we can see it or not. I was always taught as a child that speaking in tongues was "from the devil", so I made up my mind that the Bible wasn't worth believing in if we had to decide that part of it was true and part of it was not. It was either true or not, so I decided that if part of it wasn't true, then none if it was. I vowed to steer clear of the church and all that it represented for the rest of my life. I did that for years until I came to a point in my life where I decided that this matter of what happens to us after we die had to make some kind of sense. I saw the "intelligence of design" with my own eyes. How could something so excruciatingly complex as the atom, or the double helix or a few billion other phenomena have just formed out of chaos? I have never seen order come from chaos. Ever. I have seen order deteriorate into chaos, but never ever the other way around. The Bible does even say that (partially summed up in my words) man is without excuse even if he is never taught the gospel, because all he has to do is look around him at the way things are made and the complexity and wonder of it all. The only reasonable conclusion that one can come to is that something beyond all human comprehension is behind all this. Okay. I'll stop now. The subject is a never-ending one and could go one forever. Thanks for letting me express my opinion. If you've hung in there and read all this, kudos to you!
Good point, mikesimon. I think I'll give my tuppence on this after all.
Since you can't really scientifically disprove this, it's really a matter of opinion based on belief, interpretation, perspective.
If it is possible (I don't have a strong opinion either way), I don't think it's exclusive to Christianity (as mikesimon verified), so I guess IF it does occur, how you interpret it or apply it to your life is subjective (depending on your religion and/or culture).
Being raised Catholic, I've never seen it or heard of it via the Church. That said, I had to look up "The Rapture" as an adult, I never knew anyone who proselytized before I moved to Nevada, and when people ask me when I found Jesus, I always say I didn't know He was missing. ;) (I've known Him all my life.) So...again--perspective, interpretation, belief.
This is not something I view as possible or impossible, right or wrong--as long as it's not hurting anyone.
Since you can't really scientifically disprove this, it's really a matter of opinion based on belief, interpretation, perspective.
If it is possible (I don't have a strong opinion either way), I don't think it's exclusive to Christianity (as mikesimon verified), so I guess IF it does occur, how you interpret it or apply it to your life is subjective (depending on your religion and/or culture).
Being raised Catholic, I've never seen it or heard of it via the Church. That said, I had to look up "The Rapture" as an adult, I never knew anyone who proselytized before I moved to Nevada, and when people ask me when I found Jesus, I always say I didn't know He was missing. ;) (I've known Him all my life.) So...again--perspective, interpretation, belief.
This is not something I view as possible or impossible, right or wrong--as long as it's not hurting anyone.
I'm not debating - I haven't even expressed an opinion. I merely provided some information that I thought was relevant and interesting.
LOL! I'm debated-out--you were tough on me! ;)
YOU are staying out of a debate???? OMG!!! LOL!!!!
I guess I don't understand the distinction.
"Comparative linguistics
"Felicitas Goodman, a psychological anthropologist and linguist, studied a number of Pentecostal communities in the United States, Caribbean and Mexico; these included English, Spanish and Mayan speaking groups. She compared what she found with recordings of non-Christian rituals from Africa, Borneo, Indonesia and Japan. She took into account both the segmental structure (such as sounds, syllables, phrases) and the supra-segmental elements (rhythm, accent, intonation), and concluded that there was no distinction between what was practiced by Christians and the followers of other religions.[10]...."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossolalia
"Comparative linguistics
"Felicitas Goodman, a psychological anthropologist and linguist, studied a number of Pentecostal communities in the United States, Caribbean and Mexico; these included English, Spanish and Mayan speaking groups. She compared what she found with recordings of non-Christian rituals from Africa, Borneo, Indonesia and Japan. She took into account both the segmental structure (such as sounds, syllables, phrases) and the supra-segmental elements (rhythm, accent, intonation), and concluded that there was no distinction between what was practiced by Christians and the followers of other religions.[10]...."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossolalia
Well, there is speaking in tongues and then there is the prayer language. The prayer language is where you are praying in tongues which is considered to be a language between you and god, and only you and god knows what is being said. Satan does not know what you are saying. Speaking in other tongues is usually done in a manner where at least one person in the group can interpret for the audience. One is known as speaking in other tongues and one is known as prayer language.
I really thought it was clear. My reading of the article suggests that other groups of people aside from Christians have also engaged in what could be considered to be speaking in tongues. I didn't construct the prose. I merely copied and pasted a portion from the Wikipedia article at the website I put at the bottom of the page.
Mike
Mike
Interesting but I really didn'' understand a word you wrote. It's not you, it's me, it was very deep. Maybe someday I will understand it all.
I express no opinion on the subject but I did find this interesting.
"Glossolalia is commonly called "speaking in tongues". For other uses of "speaking in tongues", see Speaking in Tongues (disambiguation)."
"...Aside from Christians, other religious groups also have been observed to practice some form of theopneustic glossolalia. It is perhaps most commonly in Paganism, Shamanism, and other mediumistic religious practices.[64]
Glossolalia was exhibited by the renowned ancient Oracle of Delphi, whereby a priestess of the god Apollo (called the Pythia) speaks in unintelligible utterances, supposedly through the spirit of Apollo in her.[citation needed]
The Jewish religion has various citations of unintelligible speech beginning with the verse in Psalms 81:6 -
"The evidence was put in 'Jehoseph' when going forth on the land of Egypt:
A language I did not know I will hear."
The Talmud explains that Joseph was taught to understand all 70 toungues at the night of New years eve, before receiving rule over Egypt under Pharoe. [Rosh Hashana 18a, Sotah 41a] [65]
Various rituals and references exist about prayer of people not familiar with the holy language, and the importance of prayers said by people who only know how to mumble the words without understanding them. In the 17th century it was said in the name of the Baal Shem Tov upon hearing the prayer of someone who instead of praising God who blesses the years (HaShonim) praised God who blesses the women (HaNoshim). He said that this person's prayers are the highest and holyest.
There are various texts and sayings to be read during the Jewish traditional prayers, which are either unintelligable or purposefully said in Aramaic, so as to reach directly to God without intervention of the angels, who speak the holy language of Hebrew.
Today there is a Hassidic sect of Jews who believe in the importance of repeating a citation "Na Nach..." for national and personal redemption.
It is interesting to note the texts to be recited during the Shavuot celebrations (original ceremony of Pentecost) must be read in the original Hebrew directly from the Bible, even if the person reading it does not understand the meaning. [66]
Certain Gnostic magical texts from the Roman period have written on them unintelligible syllables such as "t t t t n n n n d d d d d..." etc. It is conjectured that these may be transliterations of the sorts of sounds made during glossolalia. The Coptic Gospel of the Egyptians also features a hymn of (mostly) unintelligible syllables which is thought to be an early example of Christian glossolalia.
In the nineteenth century, Spiritism was developed by the work of Allan Kardec, and the phenomenon was seen as one of the self-evident manifestations of spirits. Spiritists argued that some cases were actually cases of xenoglossia (from Greek,xenos, stranger; and glossa, language. When one speaks in a language unknown to him). However, the importance attributed to it, as well as its frequency, has decreased significantly. Some present-day spiritists[who?] regard the phenomenon pointless, as it does not convey any intelligible message to those present.
Glossolalia has also been observed in the Voodoo religion of Haiti,[67] as well as in the Hindu Gurus and Fakirs of India.[68][69]
Glossolalia has even been postulated as an explanation for the Voynich manuscript.[70]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossolalia
"Glossolalia is commonly called "speaking in tongues". For other uses of "speaking in tongues", see Speaking in Tongues (disambiguation)."
"...Aside from Christians, other religious groups also have been observed to practice some form of theopneustic glossolalia. It is perhaps most commonly in Paganism, Shamanism, and other mediumistic religious practices.[64]
Glossolalia was exhibited by the renowned ancient Oracle of Delphi, whereby a priestess of the god Apollo (called the Pythia) speaks in unintelligible utterances, supposedly through the spirit of Apollo in her.[citation needed]
The Jewish religion has various citations of unintelligible speech beginning with the verse in Psalms 81:6 -
"The evidence was put in 'Jehoseph' when going forth on the land of Egypt:
A language I did not know I will hear."
The Talmud explains that Joseph was taught to understand all 70 toungues at the night of New years eve, before receiving rule over Egypt under Pharoe. [Rosh Hashana 18a, Sotah 41a] [65]
Various rituals and references exist about prayer of people not familiar with the holy language, and the importance of prayers said by people who only know how to mumble the words without understanding them. In the 17th century it was said in the name of the Baal Shem Tov upon hearing the prayer of someone who instead of praising God who blesses the years (HaShonim) praised God who blesses the women (HaNoshim). He said that this person's prayers are the highest and holyest.
There are various texts and sayings to be read during the Jewish traditional prayers, which are either unintelligable or purposefully said in Aramaic, so as to reach directly to God without intervention of the angels, who speak the holy language of Hebrew.
Today there is a Hassidic sect of Jews who believe in the importance of repeating a citation "Na Nach..." for national and personal redemption.
It is interesting to note the texts to be recited during the Shavuot celebrations (original ceremony of Pentecost) must be read in the original Hebrew directly from the Bible, even if the person reading it does not understand the meaning. [66]
Certain Gnostic magical texts from the Roman period have written on them unintelligible syllables such as "t t t t n n n n d d d d d..." etc. It is conjectured that these may be transliterations of the sorts of sounds made during glossolalia. The Coptic Gospel of the Egyptians also features a hymn of (mostly) unintelligible syllables which is thought to be an early example of Christian glossolalia.
In the nineteenth century, Spiritism was developed by the work of Allan Kardec, and the phenomenon was seen as one of the self-evident manifestations of spirits. Spiritists argued that some cases were actually cases of xenoglossia (from Greek,xenos, stranger; and glossa, language. When one speaks in a language unknown to him). However, the importance attributed to it, as well as its frequency, has decreased significantly. Some present-day spiritists[who?] regard the phenomenon pointless, as it does not convey any intelligible message to those present.
Glossolalia has also been observed in the Voodoo religion of Haiti,[67] as well as in the Hindu Gurus and Fakirs of India.[68][69]
Glossolalia has even been postulated as an explanation for the Voynich manuscript.[70]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossolalia
See, that wasn't so bad. Thanks Teko!
I believe that each person has their own relationship with God. I think all views are unique and depends on our own personal walk and relationship with God. I always thought that the baptists role was to get people into church and get em saved. And the full gospel church offered more of the main course, so to speak. The people that do not believe in tongues, healings etc, are simply not at that stage in their life yet, but all roles are important.
I liken it to a newborn baby, who can only tolerate milk, then as time goes by they can handle certain foods, then the main meals. I think our faith is similar. Stages of learning based on what we can handle, when we can handle it and how it applies to our life.
I see nothing to argue about, as it is all right depending on where we are in our walk.
I liken it to a newborn baby, who can only tolerate milk, then as time goes by they can handle certain foods, then the main meals. I think our faith is similar. Stages of learning based on what we can handle, when we can handle it and how it applies to our life.
I see nothing to argue about, as it is all right depending on where we are in our walk.
Yes, only God knows the real answers but why does a discussion about it have to be taboo? Why can't we all say what we think, whether right or wrong? Maybe it will make us more tolerant of people who don't think exactly like us. I have been thinking about leaving my current church b/c they disagree with me on abortion, gay marriage, and the fact that voted for Obama who they claim believes in late term abortions (he doesn't). The thing is they think I am wrong but I think that thay just have a different view point than mine.
The Pastor there is great, I feel that he really "gets" it and I get a lot out of his sermons. However the people at the church are shunning me b/c of what I believe.
Again, why does one person thinking differently about religion mean that we all can't respect and be tolerant of each other?
Why? Why? Why? It seems very immature to me.
The Pastor there is great, I feel that he really "gets" it and I get a lot out of his sermons. However the people at the church are shunning me b/c of what I believe.
Again, why does one person thinking differently about religion mean that we all can't respect and be tolerant of each other?
Why? Why? Why? It seems very immature to me.
I have lots to say, but won't. You can never "win" a political or religious argument and yes debates on those two subjects always turn into arguments. We all think we are right and in reality only God has the answers.
I agree with Jollyman 150%!!
I agree with Jollyman 150%!!
Everyone, thanks for your replys. I grew up in a church that never talked about speaking in tongues but about 8 yrs ago started going to a charasmatic church where they speak in tongues all the time. They say they have been annointed by the Holy Spirit and are speaking the language of God. At first, they said that you need to be able to speak in tongues to get to heaven (be saved) but I think it's been loosened up a bit. I can't speak in tongues. It used to freak me out when I heard it but now I'm used to it.
If you've read some of my posts, you might find it strange that I do believe that Jesus is the Son of the God and through Him we can be saved. I believe that Jesus died for ALL our sins - no matter what "religion" you follow. Of course, my view are very liberal but I do think that life is not black or whilte but that there is a lot of gray. I would never say that a Muslin won't go to heaven or an atheist or Hindu. It's what in your heart that Jesus is looking at and how we treat people as a whole. It's loving and forgiving your enemies and having Jesus guide your life because He loves each of us more than we could ever imagine.
The worst thing any of us can do is judge another person. We don't know what they have been through or their hurts and pains. All of us fall short of the glory of God but God knows this and that why he brought His son to us to die for our sins.
God Bless you all.
If you've read some of my posts, you might find it strange that I do believe that Jesus is the Son of the God and through Him we can be saved. I believe that Jesus died for ALL our sins - no matter what "religion" you follow. Of course, my view are very liberal but I do think that life is not black or whilte but that there is a lot of gray. I would never say that a Muslin won't go to heaven or an atheist or Hindu. It's what in your heart that Jesus is looking at and how we treat people as a whole. It's loving and forgiving your enemies and having Jesus guide your life because He loves each of us more than we could ever imagine.
The worst thing any of us can do is judge another person. We don't know what they have been through or their hurts and pains. All of us fall short of the glory of God but God knows this and that why he brought His son to us to die for our sins.
God Bless you all.
I am with you jollyman. I do feel if a person is speaking in tongues and he message is for you, you will be able to understand what is being said. I do believe person's abuse, I can't say they are faking. I'm not an atheist. I read,believe and try to follow the Bible. I do not push my belief on others, but will talk about my faith if I feel led to.
not atheist..just smart peoplke who arent going to caught in a no win debate
wow a lot of atheist lol
No WAY am I touching this one!
Ok, add me to the list with dominosarah, mikesimon, jdwithhcv, et al.
I believe it can be real but I believe a lot of people abuse it. By abusing it I mean they fake it. Yes, there are a lot of fakers out there. It's a shame because then they make all Christians look bad. The Bible says to test the spirits, to be wise and pray for wisdom. That's what I do.
Some true cases of someone speaking in another language I believe are stories I've been told by friends. I'll list one of them here. He was the youth pastor at our last church. He grew up in a missionary family. They lived in Africa. These were Wesleyans by the way. They don't usually believe in speaking in tongues! Well, one day his dad (who was a pastor) had to go to a remote village and felt God strongly telling him to preach the gospel there. He resisted because he didn't speak that dialect. Finally, he decided to preach in English but speak slowly and hope that someone could interpret for him. There was some kind of function going on, I don't remember what. But he got up to speak and opened his mouth and began speaking fluently in their language. He gave the simple message of the gospel. By the time he got back to his car it had left him, just like that. He wasn't able to speak that dialect again. I believe this because I know this family and they're a reputable family. I've heard other stories like this too. In these cases, yes I believe it came from God. But like I said, always test the spirits and pray and ask God if it is really from him. That's all we can do.
Some true cases of someone speaking in another language I believe are stories I've been told by friends. I'll list one of them here. He was the youth pastor at our last church. He grew up in a missionary family. They lived in Africa. These were Wesleyans by the way. They don't usually believe in speaking in tongues! Well, one day his dad (who was a pastor) had to go to a remote village and felt God strongly telling him to preach the gospel there. He resisted because he didn't speak that dialect. Finally, he decided to preach in English but speak slowly and hope that someone could interpret for him. There was some kind of function going on, I don't remember what. But he got up to speak and opened his mouth and began speaking fluently in their language. He gave the simple message of the gospel. By the time he got back to his car it had left him, just like that. He wasn't able to speak that dialect again. I believe this because I know this family and they're a reputable family. I've heard other stories like this too. In these cases, yes I believe it came from God. But like I said, always test the spirits and pray and ask God if it is really from him. That's all we can do.
Make that four, and a 20 foot pole!
Brent
Brent
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