Lithotripsy? Has it worked for you?

[ace_of_diamonds]

Hi everyone, Hoping someone has an experience that they can share concerning lithotripsy? I was diagnosed with MSK Feb of last year after a major bout of stones and ending up with nephritis. I haven't had another episode of such painful stones (thanking God) and went for a follow up with Specialist this morning. Comparing XRays one stone has doubled in size in the last 12mths and the specialist was keen to try lithotripsy. I'm feeling a little apprehensive of this procedure because of the chance it won't work? He is unsure whether the stone is in the renal pelvis or in the medulla.....so if it's in the medulla it would just shatter it and they won't be able to get out. If it's in the renal pelvis I'm dreading the thought of it ripping me apart again like last time and ending up hospitalised again. Has anyone had successful lithotripsy and would you recommend it to other MSKers? Thanks in advance......ace

[ChitChatNine]

Hi,

Our one member MSKShelly is on vacation for 2 weeks w/o Internet .. she may have info for you when she returns.  We may have some other members, too, who can help you, although I have not had the procedure done since mine are too small and lie in the medullary as you explain.

Hoping others have some info to share with you ....

C~
MSK with small stones - calcium oxalate

[ace_of_diamonds]

Thanks ChitChatNine I'm reading up a storm :)

[clsn]

I would get a second opinion if the doctor is unsure of its location. I've had the procedure twice. Once on the ureter and once on the kidney. There is some research that correlates an increase in high blood pressure and diabetes with repeated use of lithotripsy. I have not talked to my urologist about this yet, so I am not certain if the procedure has been improved since the study was conducted. I do know that I have had nerve problems in that same area since the procedure. Whether its related, I'm not sure, but its something to think about. My urologist has also "driven" up through my ureter to retrieve stones in my kidney, and then used litho on the one he could not reach. If they are unsure of its location, maybe they should wait and see if it moves at all.  It also depends on size. The larger it gets, the less likely it will pass. I just think doctors are sometimes very quick to use litho, and I think it should be used with caution.

[punkin1515]

Hi. You are very correct to be concerned over the Lithotriposys. To start you must find out the location and size of the stone. Second a person with MSK really shoul NEVER use this procedure.. it is not the correct or proper procedure.
<<< "I am dreading  the thought of it ripping me apart like last time" well you see when Lithotriposys are used they create much dust and fragments that remain in the Kidney and form MANY more stones. You CAN NOT blast a stone in the Medullary NO WAY NO HOW!! Where and what do you think will happen with the dust and fragments from this pulvaration???  
I have MSK but not true MSK. Another words I was not born with it, however it was imposed on me by many many easy outs(blastings) and incorrect info. from my uro. and Nephroligist. I started with just plain calisfacations and from there was put into a MSK state from all these blastings.
There are many studies beind done on these "blasters" and they ALL indicate what I have told you above. They need to ban those "blasters" and there are some Docs working on that. PLEASE DO NOT DO IT!! tHERE ARE GUIDE LINES ON PROPER USAGE RE: LOCATION AND SIZE. They actullay blasted 2 staghorns on me... NEVER recovered.
Have you done 24 hour urines and had these stones analiyzed?? That a MUST!! There may be a med. for you to stop making these nasty stones or at least help prevet. How many stonees have you had?? Let me know your location as there are many great docs. around the world. Chicago, Texas, Pa. & NY have some great docs.
I beg of you to please reconsider the blasting... I know how painful it is but most docs. use this method as an easy out to avoid surgery. I know it sounds much better to blast but in the end it will not be in your best intrest I promise you that. Always remember something... sometimes the cure is worse than the disease'. Easy outs are just not acceptable. Please re-post size and loceation of stone... here are no if's it is exactly where it is not here or there.
Clsn is correct it does cause HBP and Diabetes and further damage to the kidney. I am proof. Also keep in mind the first machine (bath) only came out in the late or mid 80's than was cahnged to the lay down type.. not enough studies on them yet. But from te studies shown they are NO GOOD!!
I hope this helps you and please do a search on this Lithotriposy nonsense. TC Cara

[punkin1515]

Have you had a IVP to prove true MSK??? You will need that and do not let them tell you otherwise. CT is not as good as the IVP for true MSK  Cara

[punkin1515]

He the doc knows it has grown but does not know the location??? Very strange. Again I agree with clsn GET A NEW DOCTOR ASAP!! RUN!! Also clsn no the new studies on the Lithotriposys are worse. clsn is correct if the stone can drop into the ureter and than be removed much better situation. Cara

[ace_of_diamonds]

Thanks for your comments, yes punkin1515 I have had IVP to prove I have true MSK. More the worse I questioned my doc. I was told that if the lithotripsy was conducted and it "blasted" it in the kidney it would be called a "failed" lithotripsy, obviously as the stones wouldn't be able to "get out" according to my doc. the fragments would eventually join up again and form this "giant" stone again. Different story of course if it's in the renal pelvis.  It is obvious to me also that the stone has increased significantly in size through comparison of previous scans. The reason I ask is that I have never been in the actual position to "consider" treatment as things that have happened before have always involved immense pain, emergency trips to hospital with blocked infected kidneys. This is the first time I have been told that this treatment could be considered for me.

After reading all this information I'm really really really not keen on the idea! I am struggling to find anyone who has this condtion where I live let alone a doctor who really has any experience with it! Even if he considers lithotripsy as the best and only option. I will definately be asking for another IVP to determine where this large pesky stone is.

Do you think that it is a bad idea "blasting" the kidney because of the inability of the stone fragments to go anywhere?

Having no experience with this before I thought it would just add to the already 300+ I have in there anyway?

I'm not keen on the possibility of increased pain or nerve damage. I don't have intense pain daily so not interested in making pain a permanent thing!

Thanks punkin, clsn for giving me something more to think about.

[punkin1515]

Hi!
  Well what is so bad about questioning your Doc.? You write that as though you feel guilty.You have every right and should be questioning to try to make the best choice for you. The best thing to do is write everything down, that you may need answers to. When you get there sometimes you start to forget some of the concerns. Well I could not forgive myself, if I did not ask quesions. A good Doc. will not be uncomfortable if put in this situation. A good Doc. will answer all your questions and encourage more. A really good Doc. will encourage a second opinion or, not be offended if you ask for your records to obtain a second opinion, and happy to see you return.
  A failed Lithotriposy is not a good thing at all. What your doc. told you about the "giant" stone is partically true. There will be MANY stones after the "failure". Many, many, many of all different sizes.
<<>>>
we usally never are it is always always an emergency. In that emergency this first test the do is a ...... CT... ALWAYS. Never a US or a KUB or eve a regular x-ray ALWAYS CT.Did you know that there is a study, and I will post the link when I find it. Many Cancer patients are Kidney stone suffers??We are put into a life threating position every time we pass a stone. <<>>
Hmmm you sound like I was at one time uneducated. You need to educate yourself son....knowledge is power. I don't think you have ever gotten a second opinion. Have you?
I may be able to locate a good doc. for you. Where are you located? You need to know how many, size and location of your stones to determine the best treatment. Most docs. will tell you it's a wonderful option and it is ... for them. No open surgery, no hospital stay bottom line LESS EXPENSIVE. Soooo not true for you.
Are you aware that diet changes and a med. may be available for you? Please pst where you are located. There is a MSK forum here. You should read up in there. Have you ever had a any procedures on your kidneys before? Have you had a lithrotriposy?
I will leave you with a good thought. You know how if you are rear ended at a high impact? Well read up on what an ESWL or Litho. really is. I find it very comparable except in a car you are only being hit once.  TC  Cara

[punkin1515]

I thought this post was under "kidney stones" sorry TC

[ChitChatNine]

I kind of got lost myself reading the posts .. are you both ok or do any o fthe posts need to be moved/removed?

C~

[punkin1515]

Thanks. No all is fine here. I was thinking I was in the Uro. room for a minute. Thanks for your thoughts thou you are the best...  Cara