Please help me with my husbands infedelity

[rox45]

I am 6 months pregnant and my husband has shown me this website and his postings on his fears of HIV. I am having a very hard time with accepting it all.  I have left him and just got tested,its negative, However I have been lookng on this site for anyone who will be willing to discuss the many "whys" of what  leads to cheating. An honest look into it all.  I read so many people on the hiv prevention boards of many married men who put themselves into situations over and over again and would really like some of the men to post some clues into why-HONESTLY. Thanks for your help.

[Radak]

Bless your heart! I hope only the serious reply to your post and that you might achieve some level of peace. But, please take all replies with a grain of salt and fit them to your own situation.

He may be truly sorry. Why would he have shown you his posts? He is a weasel, no doubt, but he may be truly sorry and it may not ever happen again.

Go to a marriage counselor before you chuck it all.

They can be affordable, so go!

Best wishes,
--Rad

[rox45]

Over on the womens board Im sure it will get intense! Thats why I wanted to post here also. Yes everbody has there own situation. But we are all human.Everybody has there own emotions but i also think people make more out of certain things because the fear of the 100% truth will be painful to admit to themselves or to the other person.  as far as the grain of salt-everything in life should be taken that way. I will not crumble,i refuse. i do think he is sorry, now he is but I have made the choice to leave.
Someone choose not to tell the spouse, some I think will only do it again, some will never again make that mistake.
what i want from the men is for the ones who have cheated I want the honest truth, none of us no anyone here, so nothing to lose. just the true no matter how awful or gut wrenching truth. Admitting to ourselves certain truths are very difficult. a moral discussion, no slamming,no man bashing just truth. thank you for your response radak

[complete]

Hi,well I can tell you that your husbands fear of HIV may not be because he has been with a woman but a man!Hello?I am a male divorce now after being married for 18 years,but it was not because of a woman or a man,its was just because we driffed apart in many ways.Talking out problems with each other was the main reason.I did have a couple of affairs after our 10th year of marriage,but we worked it out and we lasted for 8 more years.The main reasons for the affairs were because of the same problem that cause our divorced,not talking to each other. So I found someone who would talk,and be with mainly for that purpose,sadly it led to other things like sex.I will tell you that a man who cheats on his wife when shes going to have a baby,has lots of problems.I know 2 men that this same thing happen to them and they both were bi sexual and later came out and stayed gay!The fear of HIV is much more on the mind of a man who is Bi or gay,being it is much easier to spread.A Bi sexual man is the most dangerous person of all,they sleep with men then go back to there wifes or girl friends!Hello? I can tell you if you take him back and he ran on you when you was carring his baby he will for sure no dout do it again.And listen its not just men who are running around ,many women do the same thing,if not then all men would be running with the same woman!Hello?I would count your blessings that you have tested to not have HIV and this also clears your baby.AS many mothers who have HIV passed it to there newborns.If you want to know if a man can be true even the fact being, he was not in a pass relationship,then my answer is a big Yes.If he can answer yes to these things .If he has found himself ,come to deal with what caused the problem to happen,come to the point of loving who he is with!But most of all caring for himself ,and the pain he may cause not only for him but the person he is with!Then and only then can he truly Love and care enough to stay and be with someone without the gloom of a fail relationship!I know this can happen because it did for me.Good luck my dear.

[monkeyflower]

I just wanted to suggest a totally different perspective. I understand that you're feeling betrayed, hurt and upset by the fact that your husband had other partners. My heart goes out to you. However, my suggestion would be to really ask yourself WHY you're upset. Are you upset because everyone in our society says you're supposed to be upset? Because society espouses monogamy as some kind of ideal? Because society deems you should be embarrassed or hurt because he had additional partners? I guess my point is, so he had sex with someone else. Was that so different from having dinner with a friend? Did his experience actually negatively affect your relationship (aside from fallout from his guilt and the result of his confession, of course)?

Granted, ideally you would have complete honesty with each other, which clearly was not the case here (except after the fact). But this is what society teaches us, and after all, look at the result of his eventual honesty. My guess would be that he did not want to end the relationship, but he was concerned about you and wanted to reach out to you. Not to mention feeling guilty, which is another issue altogether. So in the end he did tell you, and shared his concerns with you. Maybe this is an opportunity to explore this a little further, and ask yourself some really tough questions.

I say all this as someone who has been in an open relationship for almost 20 years. It's not for everyone, and as a whole poly relationships are no better than monogamous relationships. They face all the same difficulties as anyone else, but it is another way to view your relationships, and another way to live your life. If you want more info on poly relationships (which, btw, I do not consider mine; I prefer to stick with just "open" as a label), let me know.

As for complete's response, your husband may or may not be actively bi. Most people ARE bi to some degree, btw... but that's likely not your husband's experience. Look at all the straight folks who post on the STD board, with way overhyped worries about HIV from totally innocuous situations.

[jifnif]

monkeyflower is a cold hearted freak!!!  i dont think thats the answer she is looking for!!!  she wants men to be honest and answer why they do it.  or for that matter why does anyone stray from someone they are committed to for life.  i would love to know why a man gets married or a woman and then wants to be with someoen else?  why get married...open relationship!!!....you must be pretty special to have something like that....

[PammySue]

Calling someone a “freak” in this forum is unacceptable.  When someone posts a question here, you are then open to receive a variety of different opinions and viewpoints; that is why you posted the question to start with, not to “get the answer you are looking for”.

I posted a response on the Women’s Forum to your question Rox, and I think Monkeyflower’s main point is not about accepting open marriages, but to consider that trying to find the “reason” that men cheat will undoubtedly leave you frustrated and even more depressed than you obviously already are.  And, that if he is/was an overall good man (he confided this to you willingly), to look at all sides of the coin before casting him out as the unforgivable villain.  She’s right, marriages are HARD WORK and people are not perfect.  I agree with Radak, go to a marriage counselor before you chuck it all.

If everyone in the world had the same opinions/viewpoints, there would be no need for this forum.

I’m sorry for the attack, Monkeyflower.

[jifnif]

because people are not perfect and hard work is involved it makes it no easier for a woman who is 6mths pregnant to find out her mate is cheating!!!  she was asking her to look at it from a different perspective and personally that isnt really gonna help her now.  and wouldnt you want to know "why"?????? from honest people since her mate hasnt been and like said, there are no strings attached she just is looking for answers to why people do it.  and as you said, this is a forum of opinion..and my opinion is that monkeyflower is not very compassionate in her answer and so i voiced my opinion...

[ateague]

"I guess my point is, so he had sex with someone else. Was that so different from having dinner with a friend? Did his experience actually negatively affect your relationship (aside from fallout from his guilt and the result of his confession, of course)"

......my mouth actually dropped completely open and I stopped breathing when I read this.....but I think I can manage to eek out a couple of words to this comment.  Are you being serious, because yes, having sex with someone else is very different from having dinner with a friend...she wouldn't be posting her concern if she were ok with the situation, and not because "society" made her feel that she should be hurt, it hurts to be cheated on.  Marriage is about trust and committment to one person, and when they violate that trust, then the gloves are off.  I've been cheated on and I know how she's feeling.  My first thoughts when if happened to me were "is there something wrong with me that makes him want to go somewhere else..?  Am I not enough for him?  Does he want out?"  And yeah, I wanted to know the "reasons" why people cheat too.  That's a normal reaction and I think she'll eventually figure out that there is no straight laced answer (I know I did).  But I don't think trying to ok it with a polygamous relationship would fix it.  I understand this works for some people, and obviously it works for you, but I seriously don't think she'd be up to it considering how upset she is.  

Then you must add the chance that she could be giving something harmful to her unborn child because of her husband's mistake.  How would that make any woman feel?  For all we know, he didn't "come out and tell her because he cares so much".  He probably got caught and then HAD to tell her which then he showed her this sight for her to see what the doc said.  I have little to no respect for any man who cheats on his wife (and the same goes for women who cheat on their husbands), let alone while she's pregnant.  Marriage is all about not cheating, so if he wanted to be free and do whomever he wants, he probably shouldn't be married.  No one hid that stipulation to him when he got married, he knew what he was getting himself into before he said "I do".

[monkeyflower]

First of all, I'm not cold-hearted at all. Pammy was absolutely right in her comments (thanks for the support, btw :-)); I think the original poster is reaching out and questioning the whole situation, and I wanted to just offer a different perspective.

I think maybe it really isn't such a big deal that he had sex with someone else. Of course ideally he should have been honest about it, and should have thought about this before agreeing to a monogamous relationship. I certainly can understand the resulting feeling of betrayal and the loss of trust. However, again, there's another way to look at this. There's an unbelievable amount of pressure in our society to conform to what society deems "normal", and most people readily deny their own basic nature in order to fit in. He probably didn't even consider this happening before getting married; our best intentions are sometimes just that. Mistakes do happen. Assuming this experience was the only problem in the relationship, or that other problems were 'workable', I personally think he's paying a pretty high price for just sex.

I contend that our society is all wrong when it comes to sex. Maybe we put way too much emphasis on something that just isn't all that important. Maybe we're so conditioned by our anti-sex, sex-as-commodity (this is the important one), conservative, sex-phobic society that we can't even consider other options for ourselves.

I also definitely understand that infidelity sparks insecurities for most people - and most of us are insecure as it is. Like everyone else, I have my own insecurities, and I certainly empathize with how she's feeling. I would just assert that it is OUR responsibility as individuals to deal with our own insecurities and our own issues. We can't and shouldn't rely on others to constantly affirm and validate who we are. Perhaps she's been given a golden opportunity to work on some issues, and maybe improve her self-image, her identity, and quite possibly her relationship (or future relationships). Life is one long series of learning and growth opportunities. Seize the day :-)

Anyway, I don't expect anyone to agree with my comments, and I definitely don't expect anyone to suddenly decide to adopt a poly lifestyle. But I do hope to help some people start thinking about WHY we think and do the things we do, and start questioning. Even just a little bit.

[jifnif]

i think your comment was right on the money.  even after the 2nd post of monkeyflower i can not change my opinion of her comments and really people like that are a waste of time and too much wasting of their own time trying to be "different".  its a sticky subject but the whole point was that rox45 was looking for some answers right now...she is not getting them and for that i apologize.  enough said, maybe some cheaters out there would like to at least help her out w/ the available posts left.

[rox45]

as far as my state of mind, i KNOW I will make it through this.  Im sure many people screw up due to the BI possibility,in this case the answer is no. marriage is hard. truth is hard.saying it for one and being able to accept truth being told without an argument is more difficult. The fear of HIV is very real whatever your sexual prefrence. Guilt does terrible things to the psyche. Staying with one person is not easy at times!
Monkeyflower: Im not upset because of what society says, i really dont care what society says of what i should or should not do. Being together with the same person is a choice. Married or not. Its the emotional commitment that was made between us and us alone.And if he  needed to be with someone else than I would have had to accept that, i dont want someone to be with me out of obligation. Im human  I have at times difficult feelings also,just not acted upon.  Everyone cheats for different reasons. But I think the  real truth is more simple,we just choose to not discuss it, be it to painful,scary etc.. being ok with who your are and knowing the other person accepts you for you no matter what. the things that really make us tick,your deepest innermost thoughts. The dark truth  good or bad. honestly im not deeply depressed. Im sad  but im sad for him. This will be in our hearts forever. I obviuosly have a hand in this. but he has the bigger problem right now,hes the one that acted upon it.
  cheating is not the same as going out to dinner with someone. I dont think i need to justify that one anymore.
I have been doing alot of soul searching these days. I will be fine.I have my rough times.
I think getting to the heart of some of the whys is just being honest, to admit to the other person is hard but the anger thats to come is not exactly a safe enviroment to get that answer from that person. thats why I posted here,your not my spouse! We have nothing to lose here only to gain in my opinion.
I think its very easy to answer "I dont know why i did it"  We just choose to not be truthful. We all have a past and we all have pain and we do what we do for a reason.
  I am attracted to someone I know very well.and he is off limits to me, we are both married. I know why im attracted to him and it scares me. I cant sleep many nights because of it. I cannot act on it, there is no option here. But again im human,im not perfect. I just have not acted on it. I thank you for your opinions I really do, Im sure many of the people who post under the hiv prevention boards dont come over here, maybe i should invite them over

[rox45]

If I was in an "open" realtionship that would be my choice. Thats fine for people who have made that choice. Been when only one side is  in an open realtionship  thats a problem!
I will not damn all men,nothing to gain by it.
I agree we cant look for other people and shouldnt rely on others to constantly affirm and validate who we are, but we do. we all do or this board wouldnt be here. i see certain screen names pop up over all topics here. In my opinion there are some that obviously have WAY too much time on there hands. but thats my opinion. doesnt mean i think any less of you.
Everyone needs to improve themselves and there self image, relationship etc..  I am who I am because of me. I am not a cheated on woman,that is not my new title. My self image will not falter due to someone else,only if i let it.

[monkeyflower]

Well, I'm a full-time grad student, develop and market my workshops, and am in the process of establishing my business online, so I spend 90% of my waking hours in front of the computer. These boards are kind of little breaks for me... and the topics are related to my studies, so they're helpful as well. Fun and educational :-)

I'm sorry you didn't find my posts helpful. You seemed to be questioning, so I thought I'd just try to suggest a different perspective. I wasn't as articulate as I would have hoped, but hopefully they gave some people something to think about anyway. I wish you and your husband the best in your lives.

[rox45]

I never said your posts werent helpful. I asked,you answered. thats what I wanted.  I agree with the fun and educational part lol I cant be angry or upset when what I asked for is honesty.In general I look at things from many different perspectives. If I saw everything in life from mine alone my life would be quite small. Its not about what I think all the time.
What Im hoping for is men to respond that have cheated or are cheating now. Not sure if any will. I would love to hear from that side of it,not to accuse them. we'll see what happens

[AndiJ78]

I am deeply sorry for what you are going through and I do not agree with the excuse given to men that procreation is their ultimate design. I think when you make the decision to marry, you do in fact foresake all others and make a deep and solemn vow to your spouse to remain faithful.

I do agree, however, that trying to find out why may only make matters harder on you. In the end, do you feel any answer given would be acceptable or make you feel better about the situation? I commend you for finding the strength to take a stand and move on with your life. My father was a cheater, despite promises to stop, he didn't. He actually fathered three children in one year while with my mother and during a candid conversation a few years back he admitted there could be as many as 6 more out there!! One of those infamous three in the one year was his best friend's wife! Now my real mother could have tried to delve into the why of the whole matter, but what purpose would that have served? Sadly enough, he has been married to my stepmother for 22 years and has cheated on her numerous times, the only difference is this time around he is fixed so no oops pregnancies to blow his cover. It is a sad and sorry situation. My mother actually stayed with my dad for a few more years after finding out about the other two confirmed children when she had my older sister. I guess I should be happy, otherwise I wouldn't be here, but at the same time, I do not know why she would put up with it. And the effects of that are long lasting, do you know how hard it is to trust people when you find out about this type of stuff? It took years for me to recover after I found out about the first of these "extra" kids, once i finally cealt with that, I found out about another. When you father is unfaithful, it impacts you, the child, for years to come. It doesn't just impact the spouse who was cheate don, the effects linger and last for years to come.

As hard as it would be, I do not know that any amount of counseling would be enough to forgive cheating. I love my husband dearly, we have 2 children together and are due with our third in October, but I also know that once that trust is gone, it is difficult to fix it.

My heart goes out to you in so many ways. May you find peace and solace in your decision. There are plenty of people here to turn to for support should you ever need it.

Andi

[AndiJ78]

If they won't come to you, check out the STD forum, it is full of "remorseful" men who have cheated on their wives. Guilt can create some intense side effects, but I wonder how many hold true that they would never cheat again.

Andi

[ateague]

"PS: for those of you who feel it's better not to tell the wife. i disagree. let her be the one to decide if it's going to devestate her/not (not you, a friend, a therapist). of course it will devastate but we have amazing ways to get through it and its not fair to deny us the right to make that decision to stay or go. its not fair to go through daily life believing our husband has been faithful and looking like an a$$ not knowing. if you can look her in the eyes after what happened and not feel any guilt, more power to ya."

I saw what you put on the HIV forum and wanted to say thank you so much for saying that.  I can't tell you how many times I read those posts about men who have cheated (and I love how they all say "it was the first time I'd ever done something like this and I'll never do it again", yeah right.  You'll do it again as long as you don't get caught this time...) and it makes me angry to read all the supporters who say "don't tell your wife, it was the only time and it won't happen again.  She doesn't need to know."  I usually stay out of it, but I'm glad someone finally said something.  

Monkeyflower - I just wanted to say, eventhough I don't necessarily see eye to eye with what you said, I'm glad you posted.  It gave a different angle to the story and if anything, it made people talk about the situation instead of hanging back in the corner.  Kinda' reminded me of the opinion articles that are written just to get people to respond.  So thank you.

Rox45 - You sound like a very mature woman with a good head on her shoulders.  You and your children are going to make it, with or without him in the picture.  I'm sorry this had to happen to you, but we welcome you over to the women's forum as well as the maternal/child forum.  You'll be needing support from other women and we will be glad to let you vent anytime you need it.  There are many women who are in very similar situations as yourself, so feel free to post there.  I look forward to hearing from you there.  I've read all the posts in the HIV forum, and you don't have to say if you don't want to, but which post was his?  

[rox45]

Im not going to be "hung up" looking for the "why" of it all for the rest of my life doesnt do me any good. It happened to me, I will move on. Life is not all cut and dry hes a pig and spend every minute hating him  attitude lol  I could not see myself hanging on in a support group setting reliving it all. i would however love to be face to face with a few male cheaters, not for a war just the gods honest truth.
I love my husband very much but somewhere along the way we lost each other,he admits his disconnect with me he started and by the time he realized what he had done I was so far gone.  And thats when he cheated. obviously this all took years to get to but the cheating episode happend once, i do believe him.Doesnt matter really.

As for the other guy maybe I was meant to be with: Thats a hard situation. I love my husband and he loves his wife. I know what the right thing to do is but somehow I struggle with this everyday of my life. At some point in our friendship I looked at him differently. I wasent seeking an affair (havent had one) But something changed for us. nothing has been discussed between us. It couldnt be. too many lives are at stake. Could I see myself with him when im old and grey? most definately. Its not all about the physical attraction as is the emotional attraction. Would there be something between us if our lives were different? maybe  but I cant ever know, not for now at least.

[rox45]

the post that he originally wrote is now gone.

[ateague]

There's something to be said about a man and a woman who can restrain themselves from doing something they know would be devastating to not only them, but so many other people involved.  I commend you for being so strong with the other man.  And hopefully, somehow, it might work out between the two of you in the future.  But you both seem smart enough to know it's not good timing right now.  I can understand the situation.  My DH has a friend that used to flirt with me all the time before my DH and I got married.  But, he's one of those guys you just sleep with and don't expect a relationship afterward (but man, if you could've seen this guy, I'm sure you'd agree with me that the sex probably would've been pretty good though).  He told me so many times, back then, how much he liked me but I never acted upon it, nor would I now.  I love my DH too much and would never break his heart just for one dumb moment.  My DH is the one you want to have a committment with and form a family from, whereas the other guy would've been a fling.  Sounds like it might be the opposite way for you, but you are very smart for holding off on your desire.  

I just suggested coming over to the maternal/child forum since you are pregnant and in a hard situation.  No one would make you talk about it, rather you could listen to other women say how they coped with it which could help.  But, it's up to you.  Just know that the invitation still stands.

[Radak]

Men are pretty quick to turn on and a lust takes over that rationalzes almost any behavior(*in our head) to achieve its goal.

Then, at the moment of release, is either this warm, wonderful, sleepy moment, or an "Oh! My God! What have I done?" kind of moment.

My wife died of breast cancer in 2000 and I was never unfaithful, but I have experienced both these; it's the way we are!

It won't excuse us, but maybe it will explain us.

*Which head were we thinking with?

[Radak]

Thank you!

Right now, I've got to visit my daughter.
She'll turn 21 next month, she's pregnant and has IUGR.
As a result, the baby must be induced next week.
My daughter needs her mother now and I'm so sad for her.

[PS Jimm]

Well, Rox45, here is my response, straight from the hip:

There are two kinds of People (both men and women), in my not so humble opinion (IMNSHO) ...

Romantics (amongst whom I count myself)
Non-Romantics

You know the Non's... They're the people that divide the lunch check into precise shares, expect you to pay for your theater ticket, dinner check, etc., but ask for the reciept.  Want YOU to buy the condoms (They're embarassed, don't you see?).  They're the people that only give you flowers AFTER you've hint, hint, hinted at it.  The people that tell you not to worry, you'll get the ring, go on the honeymoon, etc. after work slows down, the baby is born, their Mother gets well, etc.

Doesn't make them bad people, simply different.  The men of which I speak are completely indiffent to the 'pattern' of fidelity.  They are, again, IMNSHO, what I think of as 'vanilla sociopaths'.

Now, before I say more, tell me, please, which concerns you most:  the fact that he had sex with someone else OR that he was in sexual congress with someone else WITHOUT practicing safe sex?  A rethorical question, for obvious reasons... Is it OK if he uses a condom, to put it succinctly?

Some Romantics too (myself included)fall in the face of sexual opportunity albeit with a modicum of guilt.

I have come to conclude that it is JUST SEX not betrayal.  I say that to you as a man who has agreed with his wife to have an OPEN relationship (i.e. either of us can have (SAFE) sex with whomever we choose as long as we RESPECT the options of the other (i.e. community standing, time, insecurities, etc., as well as not letting such daliances get in the way of our responsibilities at home or at work.)).

Furthermore:  I have never, NEVER had sex with anyone else during our relationship.  Even MORE important:  I don't have a CLUE if she has either.  

I would like to suggest that, perhaps, you are caught in a 'pattern'... a program that is running in your head.  Rules that you have been brainwashed into believing as the ONLY appropriate behaviour of a spouse to obey.

I do not believe that you thought up these 'rules' by yourself.  I do not believe that you have considered each 'rule' as proper for you, as proper for your spouse AFTER applying your intellect in thoughtful consideration of your individual wants and needs nor the wants and needs of your spouse.  At the very LEAST, prior to saying "I DO" you failed to consider COMPLAIANCE.

Perhaps you did.  Perhaps you thought that it was different between the two of you?  If, indeed, this were true, how is it that you want the 'pattern', the fantasy (in most cases) of A White Picket Fence, an obedient (or dominant!) husband?  Of the hundreds, perhaps thousands of people you know HOW MANY have this?

Yet, please consider, HOW MANY talk the talk yet do not walk the walk?  How many, while guilty of perfidy, harangue you with the righteousness, the 'normal' of monogomous marriage?  Was/Is your Father faithful?  Your Uncles?  Your Employer?  Fellow employees? Male friends?  Your Sisters? Mother? Aunts? Girlfriends? You?

I, and my previous wife, suffered from the same unavoidable programming as you appear to be: keyed into our brains as inviolable 'rules' by hypocrits.

What will you do now?  Follow the 'pattern'?

It is oft said:  "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing while expecting different results."

Good Luck!!

Jimm

********Fellow readers... please keep in mind that this is a RESPONSE and NOT a request for your opinion of my thoughts.  If you have something to contribute to the originator of this thread please do so as it is the function of this 'newsgroup,

[4meg]

I can understand a man having a strong sex drive and wanting to be with another partner just purely for sex, but in a marriage be it open or not, how do you deal with the jealousy factor?