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Shrinking Penis
I have posted here before, but I feel that I must be persistent.  I am 29 years old, and have been impotent for about 2 years now.  2 years ago, I was absolutely fine.  I could have sex as many times as I wanted to.  3 times a night would be no problem.  I woke up with erections, and if I didn't have sex I would masturbate in the morning and before I went to bed.  

It is a different story now however.  No morning wood.  No libido.  If I am able to get an erection it doesn't last long.  Visual stimuli has no effect, I have to use my hand and that doesn't work very well.  When flacid, my penis is smaller now.  The skin feels different--less sensitive.  I see veins where I couldn't see any before.  When I walk around, it feels like I don't even have a penis anymore.  It feels like nothing is there.  As a result of this I have lost my girlfriend, my confidence in life, and I think I am losing my mind.  Oral drugs don't help.  

I've been to urologists at an ivy leage teaching hospital. He basically said 'that's life' and showed me penis pumps.  I really don't know why I am typing this message, as I don't think there is anything anyone can really do.  I am beyond the point of losing hope.  I quite honestly do not want to live like this anymore.  

My only questions are:
a.  Why & how did this happen?
b.  Is there any way to fix it?

If you know a doctor, please forward this to him/her because I really need help.  Thank you.
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173939 tn?1333221450
Until you find a doctor who will give you better advice, I can only say that I know of two men age 40 and 60 with similar symptoms. Both of them drink quite a lot of alcohol daily and one of them has also consumed tons of beef throughout life in an area where cows are still raised with estrogen. He also developed prostate problems. What I`m getting at is that you might have too much estrogen in your system or maybe it is a side effect of any medication. And, oh yes, anti-depressants will do that to you too. I hear your despair and you`re too young to beat yourself up about this for the rest of your life. Find a different doctor.
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Pmaule,
I have the exact same condition that you have. Until now I thought I might be the only person with this problem because I couldn't find information diagnosing my symptoms. I'm 21 and about 3 months ago I noticed the change. Probably was happening gradually over a few weeks until I finally noticed. Like you, I no longer have morning wood. I have some libido, but not nearly as much as before the problem. When flaccid I'm much smaller now and I'm literally going crazy because it feels like I don't have anything down there. I am able to get an erection, but not nearly as easily as before. Also, they don't last very long and aren't as impressive. Measuring, I've only lost .25 inch in length but an entire 1.5 inches in girth when arroused! (I used to be pretty well endowed) I also can't get them from visual stimuli anymore. I've had blood testing done and nothing has indicated that I should have any problems. I am perplexed as to what caused/is causing this and am desperate for a solution. I have to literally try everyday to prevent it from making me go insane. I'm in college and I don't drink or go out much anymore because I feel so inadequate, and obviously my sex life is a joke now. I am scheduled to see a urologist in 3 weeks and am trying to stay optimist. I tried Viagra and it helped some, but is way too expensive to take everyday.  Not to mention that I think it is a little ridiculous for a healthy 21 year old to have to take it to have a functional penis. I am physically fit and exercise daily (have to in order to keep from getting anymore depressed about it). I have no idea what has caused this problem, but it needs to be fixed. I don't believe in suicide, but I doubt I can handle life much longer if this doesn't get fixed. I just can't enjoy things anymore. Please let me know if you find out any information on what's causing our condition, and I will gladly do the same. Good luck.
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Hey man, just read your post.  I know this seems like more than you can handle right now but have faith that everything is going to be ok.  It's such a damning thing to happen because it's so mysterious.  Just try to relax because the more worked up you get about it, the potency you do have will be diminished by the stress you're putting on yourself.  I've been dealing with some of the symptoms you've described for about 6 months.  I'm 26 and thank God above that I have a woman that loves me for me.  One day at a time.  Don't think about the past or the future.  Live for today.
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Thanks for the support man. I'm learning to cope with it better, I just don't want to underscore how paniced I feel. It would probably be easier to deal with if had a girlfriend for support that didn't feel any differently towards me because of my problem. Too bad I didn't see this coming or I'm sure I would have been a little more eager to find one. You said you've had this problem for six months. Any ideas as to what is causing it or how to fix it? Have/are you seeking any treatment? I just think it would be alot easier to handle if I knew it could be treated and fixed.
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I know, if we could just know what spawned it on it might give us a little bit more piece of mind.  Mine happened when I was in Asia.  My penis just became very itchy and i put some cream on it.  Next thing I knew it was pretty lifeless with hardly any feeling of blood in the head.  I've had all the bloodtests and appointments with hotshot urologists.  I'm seeing one right now that is going to  do the Duplex ultrasound on me.  They think it's my prostate that's causing the mayhem.  I just want an MRI of my prostate and the duplex.  I know it seems like you can read, read, read and schedule all the appointments but u never come to a knowledge of anything.  I'm just glad it works.  It's not like it used to be but it works.  It has restored a little bit since asia.  It's not as rubbery and  unresponsive.  I've got to stay positive.  What's so bothersome is even flaccid it doesn't feel right.  I used to be able to flex that PC muscle and do penis "push ups".  Now it's just like the PC muscle is atrophied.  Maybe cuz of stress.  I don't know.  Just stay positive man.
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Alright man. Not that I want anyone else to have to deal with this, but it does make me feel better that I'm not the only one that has had to suffer from this bizarre condition. Well good luck with your next appointment. Hope it works out. Let me know if they figure out what's going on.
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OK Guy's, i found this thread by accident and i thought it would be important to reply. First off i want everyone to relax and stay calm and i don't want anyone to think about suicide, i suffered the exact same as you guy's did but no one to give me any kind of answers (i am only 24 myself). I have the answers you guy's need, so please let me explain my own story first.

When i was born, i was a healthy, young baby boy. However it wasn't noticed that i had an undescended testicle (right testicle) until i was 2 year's old. The testicle was brought down but this in turn caused the testicle to remain small and atrophied (dysfunctional). My left testicle took over throughout puberty and became large and fully functional. I went through puberty as normal but my left testicle gained a huge size (2/3 inches) to compensate for the other 'lost' testicle.

6 months ago i got an injury to my left testicle which caused a varicocele to form (enlargement/swelling of the veins), this in turn causes blood pooling issues int he testicle and over-heating to occur (along with abnormal hormonal parameters). Over a course of 3 months my testicle atrophied and my sperm count dropped. During this time i just didn't "feel right" (so to speak) and wasn't getting morning erections or having a libido. I had joint and muscle pains and all manner of skin changes occured (more so on my penis like you guy's - skin thinning, maybe a little dry at times). What had happened was a hormonal inbalance had set in and caused low testosterone (hypogonadism). Like you guy's my penis shrunk up really bad and my testicles were always very tight and didn't hang as normal.

Flaccid penis size is controlled by the free testosterone levels available in the blood. DHT (A hormone that gives us "all things male") has a large degree of control over the penilie tissues (the "elasticness" of them for example). The Testosterone to estrogen ratio controls how "hard" your erections get and if this got knocked out (due to lack of testosterone for example) then getting erections will be tough and your flaccid penis will hang alot smaller and lifeless at times.

Morning wood is an indication of the correct ratio of Testosterone to Estrogen (E2). Lack of morning wood in almost all cases means either excess estrogen or low testosterone.

Imagine the flaccid penis like a balloon. When there isn't enough testosterone in the blood to support it "shrinks" up. You guy's need to be aware that unless you live with this for like 4/5 year's the penis dosen't "actually" shrink and lose tissue (it's already developed muscular tissue) but just shrinks up into itself.

You WILL get your penis size and erection ability back when you get your hormones in order.

So how did you develop this condition? Well there are 3 forms. Primary Hypogonadism which means testicular dysfunction (caused by tramua to the testicles - hernia, varicocele, mumps, hard kick, etc) and secondary which indicates a problem with your piturity gland not sending out enough messages to keep your testosterone level high. Central Hypogonadism is a problem with both the piturity gland and the testicles (this is rare).

Secondary hypogonadism can indicate a piturity tumour or be brought on from head tramua. An MRI is needed and frequent blood work to elevate (generally secondary will be indicated by low LH/FSH in the 1/2 range).

A normal testosterone level of 23nmol (or more) is required for sperm production and normal male functioning, anything lower (even if your doctor "claims" you are normal) isn't.

Low testosterone can lead to high estrogen which in turn can cause prostate rated problems (prostitis for example).

If you are overweight or have stomach fat you most likely have higher levels of estrogen which again cause erection problems and smaller flaccid penis size.

I will monitor this thread and will answer any questions you guy's have.

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I meant to add that it would be wise to stop alcholol consumption while on TRT because it will cause an instant estrogen problem and your penis to shrink really bad (trust me - i have experienced this myself).

Did the urologist give any reasons why your testosterone was low for your age? Do you have a history of testicular tramua (varicoceles, hernia, mumps, etc)? Did your testicles atrophy?
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Thank you so much man. I can't tell you how much better I feel. The urologist I saw a month ago gave me Androgel 5mg packets to use once a day bc my T-level was only 356. Low-Normal range but still low for a 21 year old right? My mood has improved substantially since (I don't get depressed/irritable much anymore). However, my penis is still small flaccid, my libido is still low, no morning wood, etc. (all the above symptoms are still occuring). For this reason I thought the diagnosis must have been wrong. I have been taking the Androgel for 3 weeks now and still haven't seen any improvement down there. I also still have a little excess belly fat that I never used to have (I work out alot and have always been skinier than most people). I also noticed that if I consume alcohol (even just a beer) it exascerbates the symptoms. Do you think the gel just isn't working? Or is it that I have too much estrogen? I'm scheduled to see another urologist in two weeks. Any suggestions. Again, thanks alot. I really appreciate the feedback.
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No problem, i am here to help.

You have mentioned a few thing's that are important for me to point out. First off we are both of similar age and i also got prescribed androgel. The problem is when you take Androgel it can (and almost does) shut down your own natural production (HPTA supression), so it dosen't work in a "suppliment" like fashion. In the long term this can have a negative effect on fertility and testicular size and can sometimes cause irreversible tissue and cell changes to occur in the testicles.

Because you have mentioned have you some excess body fat around your stomach this means you are most likely prone to having an estrogen problem (E2 - Estridol). High estrogen will lead to your penis retracting alot more and hanging alot smaller (getting erections will be more difficult). Free Testosterone and DHT are the most important hormones for penile tissue sensation and flaccid penis size. DHT controls the vascular blood flow and nerve function. DHT is converted from testosterone via the liver and is considered 5 times more powerful than testosterone. DHT can have negative effects on the prostate (PSA is a good gauge for this) and on male pattern baldness (but only if you are genetically prone to this).

The problem with androgel is that once it shuts down your own natural production, sometimes the gel isn't enough to even get you above your previous levels (300/400). What dosage are you using? Because you mention you have some body fat it's possible that this is causing absorption issues and most likely converting to E2 and DHT but not getting your total t or free t into good ranges.

Zinc is a good natural inhibitor of estrogen and can stop the conversation of testosterone into estrogen in the liver. I advise taking the following suppliments:

ZMA (1 tablet daily)
Vit E (800iu daily - get the gel capsules this helps with vascular function and prevents penile fibrosis)

I have since stopped all TRT (Androgel, Tesim, etc) as i had my varicocele fixed and i am going to run HCG which is an LH analogue to regain testicular size and hopefully function. I advise anyone on TRT to use HCG alongside to help with libido, mood and fertility. If your testicles are capable it can double (if not more) your natural testosterone production. This is injected 3 times weekly while on androgel (or a similar topical gel) to prevent testicular atrophy/shrinkage and the constant "tight" scrotum you get while on TRT.

Make sure you get the following tests done on your next blood work out:-

Total T
Free T (or Bioavailable)
SHGB (high SHBG usually means high E2)
LH/FSH
DHT
Estridol
Prolactin
TSH

Feel free to ask any other questions!
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Thank you. You have been most helpful. The urologist didn't know why my testosterone levels were low. All he said was he didn't think it was  my pituitary. He did a physical examination of my testicles as well and there was nothing wrong there. I honestly have no idea what is causing the imbalances and it's bothering me a lot. Any ideas? I'm thinking about stopping the TRT. I am on the 5mg androgel gel. It helps my mood, but I don't want to further complicate my condition if the androgel isn't even fixing the problem. Is that a bad idea? I take a daily vitamin (Men's One a Day, Vit. E 45 IU, Zinc 15mg). Is that enough for my zinc and vitamin E? Should I start taking HCG? Will that fix the problem?
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The problem is if your piturity is playing up you need to find out why. Unlike testicular disorders this isn't something that will fix itself over night or in fact at all in most cases. You need an MRI done to check for any piturity problems (tumors, mis-alignment, head injury, etc).

If your LH/FSH are low then you could try a PCT style restart however if you have actual physical defect of your piturity gland then the likelyhood is that you will need TRT for life.

Do you have your blood results at hand? I would be interested in evaluating them and will be able to offer some extra advice.

Are you testicles normal size 1.5/2inches in length? Have you suffered any testicular atrophy at all (shrinkage)?

HCG is an LH analogue so it 'emulates' (though in a more potent form) the LH signals sent from your piturity gland. Most guy's that suffer from secondary hypogonadism find that HCG daily is enough to support normal testosterone levels and function. Injection is done with a small insulin needle.

Do you have any history of head injury or in fact testicular problems (varicoceles, hernias, mumps,infection, a hard kick, etc)?

I recommend Vit E in capsule form at 800iu daily. Zinc at 30mg.
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My testicles are still about 2 inches in length, but have atrophied a little since starting TRT. I just realized that when I was about 15 I had surgery to remove varioceles in my scrotum. Not sure if that has anything to do with this. However, I'm still leaning towards pituitary since I have no history of testicular trauma and they are of normal size. The urologist also didn't see anything wrong with them when he examined them. I don't have my blood test results on hand, but I will email the doctor to get them. I will buy the Vitamin E and Zinc supplements. Should I continue the TRT even though it isn't fixing the problem? I'll send you the blood test results when I get them. Thanks again for everything.
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I am curious to know if there is any kind of link between the varicoceles you had removed and your current situation. I received an email from another guy that had varicoceles surgically repaired about 5/6 years ago and now has low testosterone. His testicles were also not atrophied.

Which operational procedure was used for repairing the varicoceles and were they bi-lateral (both testicles) involved? Did you get varicocele embolization?

Even though your testicles are normal sized it's possible that leydig cell fibrosis could have set in and resulted in leydig cell death. This might explain the lower level of testosterone but i cannot be sure. When i see the blood results i will be able to tell you better. It's just 'too' unusual for someone with a previous history of varicoceles to induce low testosterone almost over night.

Regarding your testicles, do you feel like they change weight/size or density (sometimes 'soft', other times 'hard') throughout the day? Have you noticed any scrotum skin changes?

With the exception of having your penis 'shrunk up' while off TRT, what other symptoms do you have?

If you feel the TRT makes you feel a little better i would stay on it. I would however get another set of blood test's run while on TRT to re-evaluate your blood levels and again repost them here and i will help you figure out a better protocol.

HCG is crucial if your testicles are still functional and very potent. In some cases of primary testicular failure it can induce a cell reversal/regeneration process and in most cases return your testicles back to normal (this is my own intention). I plan on running 250iu HCG daily for 6 weeks until inter-testicular testosterone levels and serum testosterone level is restored. I will continue to run Nolvadex for 4 weeks to restart my HPTA. This should resolve the varicocele situation but it's difficult to say if this will work in a piturity based problem.

Which country are you from and how is your health care system?



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Not sure what procedure was used to remove the vericoceles.  I'll see if I can find out. All I know is that I have a small scar on my scrotum from when I had it done. I have not noticed any changes with my testicles or scrotum other than that my testicles have atrophied slightly since starting the TRT. Other than having my penis 'shrunk up', my symptoms include low libido, no morning wood, depression, irritability, lack of motivation/confidence, increase in abdominal fat, loss of muscle, and lack of energy. The TRT has improved my mood (I'm less depressed and irritable), but for the most part has not resolved any of the other symptoms. Although better on the TRT my penis is still 'shrunken' relative to how it used to be.

Still waiting to receive the blood tests from the doctor. Hopefully I'll get them soon. Will post them once I do.

I'm a U.S. citizen with access to good healthcare.
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Please post your blood work when you recieve it, i am intrested in figuring this one out.

Have you ever used hair loss drugs such as proscar or propecia?
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Never used hair loss products before. I don't have a family history of early hair loss in men either. Here are my blood results before starting androgel, looks like the urologist ignored the FSH. Let me know if you need anymore information...

FSH 1.4 mIU/mL (OUT OF RANGE: range = 1.5-8.0 mIU/mL)
LH 2.7 miU/mL (in range)
Prolactin 7.4 ng/mL (in range)
Testosterone Total 374 ng/dL (in range)
Alkaline Phosphate 79 U/L (in range)
AST 21 U/L (in range)
ALT 13 U/L (in range)

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Also, is it possible that it could be a prostate related problem as the one guy who posted before suggested?
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Yes, I'm pretty sure its the pituitary. I have no history of testicular trauma, no sign of varicoceles, and my testicles were above average in size before starting the androgel. I have a few questions... Since I'm on adrogel and am still having sexual dysfunction/abdominal fat, do you think my problems are being caused by high E2? If so, would the androgel contribute to this at all? If it is indeed my pituitary that's causing the mayhem, will I need to get an MRI? Should I wait until I see the urologist to start nolva? Thanks again.
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It's possible you have high E2 but also possible that you just don't respond well to androgel. Some people end up with a lower level than previous.

How bad is your sexual function at present? You could try taking "DIM" from ritecare this is good for lowering E2.
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Thanks for posting up your results. Your LH seem's low. A normal LH is around 3/4. This in turn could be causing the low test levels.

Being low is a good indication that your testicles might still be working, but you like you said yourself could also point towards your piturity being the problem.

The fact you mentioned no atrophy is a sign that the varicocele might not be to blame but unless you get a proper test then it will be difficult to out rule.

You could try running a course of Nolva/Clomid on a daily basis to see if your testicles are capable of producing higher levels and see how you feel.  Nolvadex Targets estrogen at breast tissue and parts of the brain. This in turn leads to a higher LH output and a higher testosterone level in return. The problem is when E2 is brought down to low this can cause problems (as can high E2).

A nolva test would be able to tell if you have a testicular or piturity problem based on the percentage of increase you get in total T from using 20mg a day. It's pretty straightforward with minimal to no side effects.

Can you still feel the varicoceles at all? Do they cause any kind of discomfort or problems beside the low t?
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Yes, I've been wondering if maybe the androgel just isn't raising my T-levels. As far as my sexual dysfunction goes, it's still pretty bad. I haven't really noticed a difference since starting androgel. Penis is still shrunk up and desensitized, difficult to get/maintain erections, no spontaneous erections, no morning wood, low libido. Thought maybe testosterone just wasn't the problem before, but now I'm thinking the androgel just isn't raising my T-levels any. I'm thinking about stopping and seeing if I notice any difference. Do you know how long I will have to be off of it before I would be able to notice (or not notice) a difference? If I have high E-2 when I get tested next Friday, what would most likely be the cause?
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In reading your comments back and forth, I wonder if I am experiencing the same problems. Back in high school I measured over 8 inches, now I believe I would be 6.5 or smaller. I do have a swollen vein on top of my sperm chord which has been ultrasound and physically inspected by two doctors. No one has ever told me my penis would shrink. I still get morning erections often, but it is hard sometimes to stay erect during sex with my wife. I also would measure pretty well in how large my testicals are, although they might be smaller than before also. I have put on some weight over the years, but read that you only lose 1 inch per 100 lbs.. I have only gained around 30 lbs. or so. Please help me with any info. you might have. If this isn't reversable, then I might see about penis extension surgery. I am having surgery to remove the vein, but if it doesn't fix the problem, then what's the point? Thanks for your time!
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It sound's like you have a varicocele but this doesn't mean you have low testosterone. Weight gain in itself will lead to higher estridol/E2 levels so working out a little and loosing the gut is always the best step before looking into medication.

You never mentioned your age, how long you have had this varicocele and such like. Ask your doctor/GP for a hormone profile the same as i listed above.
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Thanks for emailing back. I am 30. I have had this problem for about 4 years. I noticed my penis getting smaller way before I realized the swollen vein, but that doesn't mean it wasn't there. Do you think after surgery things can go back to normal, or do these kinds of problems need more attention? I will talk to a doctor about the tests you recomended, but it may be a while before I go. Thanks again for taking your time to help out.
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You are still young like myself (I am 23 year's old and had to learn this stuff the hard way too). During puberty there is a rapid rise in T levels and elevated LH/FSH. High levels of T and DHT result in a larger and "fuller" looking penis.

I also suffered the shrinkage myself but have since start a custom  routine of HCG + TRT and i can safely say i am feeling alot better. Penis is hanging better, testicles are a bit fuller (though not much) and libido is doing well.

Testim is alot better than androgel for me at least, though i seem to respond well to both (i am very lean with little muscle mass). HCG helps restore ejaculate volume and testicular size and prevents the tight scrotum problem while on TRT.

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Hey guys, I am 22 year old living in Providence. I too seem to have lost some size in my penis over the past year or so. Additionally, my penis now slightly angles to the right when erect. I am very healthy and not overwieght. I used to be 7.5 inches when I was freshmen in college. I am a senior now and I am 6 inches, and not as thick as I was. This is very troublesome and depressing

Additionally, I cannot last as long as I used to. Whats very weird is i can see veins on my penis from the base about 3/4 the way up, they look healthy but that last inch right by the head, they seem to disappear or are zigzaggy and very thin (what would cause this)?, and the skin there seems sort of raw. Also, the head of my penis does not seem to beocme as engorged as it once did when erect.

My penis does not feel as elastic or spongey when flacid as it used to (what could be the causes?) Lastly, my testacles feel as if they have shrank. They used to dangle low and swing when I would be engaged in sex when entering my partner (and i miss that). I have been tested for all STDS including herpes and HIV and they were all negative. I have had blood work done but I don't think the checked my T levels. Also what does PCT, HMT, DHT, TRT, and varicocle mean?

I guess I am just really worried. I can still ejaculate and have semen come out, but it doesn't shoot as far nor is it as large amount as it used to be. I just hope I can put a stop to the rate these problems are occurring or reverse them. Finally, when I masturabte, the whole top 1/2 of my shaft appears to get dry, it turns whitish and looks like dry skin, but its not, and it likes mike it may crack, but not bleed, just be red and irratated. ANY HELP from someone with any insight into any of these problems would be appreciated. Thank you
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Hey, how you doing?

About a year ago I realized I probably have Inguinal Hernia but I'm too scared to do anything about it because I would probably would have to do surgery and that's a scary tought. If it would have been any where else on my body I wouldnt have cared as much. Now  I am starting to notice bigger balls, and shrinkage in the actual penis! I don't have imputence (thank god) yet and hopefully never lol but i do have low sperm fertility (thin sperm) before it used to be thick and white. I did suffer from an STD but i caught it quick and cured it (hopefully)as I didn't have time to go back for confirmation, it feels like its better though! lol. I think it is obvious that I probably know the answer to my own problem which is to probably see the doctor to refer me to a hernia specialist then have an MRI then probably take it out, take some hormonal pills and get better. Am I right? Or is there anything else that I can possibly do?

By the way I am 23 years of age, I also live in a country with fancy doctors and very good benefits lol and my sex life is not as it used to be, it is alright now but when im having sex the only problem i feel is the length not being as big as it should be! which sucks big time!
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I want to ask everyone here to relax and stop worrying. Worry and stress in itself WILL cause additional hormonal problems (including adrenal issues and lower testosterone). Unless you are living with this 'condition' for more than 4/5 year's and have very low testosterone (i.e. 10nmol and below) then the chances of actually loosing "size" is near impossible, this IS reversible. The penis is a developed organ that cannot just diminish over night. Everyone here needs to start realizing that hormones are the cause of diminished blood flow to the penis and in turn effecting erection quality and overall penis health. Once the balance (not just 'higher' levels) are back using whatever treatment is required your penis will hang and swell up like it did before, in fact i might have actually "gained" some length and girth since starting replacement treatment. So there is hope. Trust me, i have felt similar to what you guy's did at one point.

The balance of Testosterone to Estrogen controls the flaccid penis size, if testosterone is low then estrogen is either higher or lower. High or low both cause there own problems, both of which "can" cause a small flaccid penis size and less full erections. Estrogen is responsible for maintaining healthy, thick skin, etc. This is why females have thick and luscious skin during there teenage years.

Dry skin is not only possible low E2 (though it has to be very low), but can also more frequently be due to hypothyroidism.

Testosterone and DHT have a role in determining blood flow through the penis and testes, affecting nitric oxide production which in turn effects erectile function and "quality".

@LightningTomater

You never mentioned your age, weight, diet and exercise you do. The changes you are seeing in your penis are from hormonal alterations as described above. The vein's can appear more prominent if E2 is high but at the same time low E2 (estridol) can cause dry skin on the penis and reduced blood flow. DHT and Estridol are very important hormones for maintaining the e'elastic' feeling of the penis and the erection quality. There can be some loss of tissue in the penis if T/E is low, this doesn't effect the actual smooth muscular tissue but rather than thin surrounding tissue on the penis. This could be why you are experiencing the raw and more prominent vascular features. DHT (a hormone converted from testosterone in the liver) is roughly 5 times more powerful than testosterone and one of the main hormones for promoting body hair growth, muscular look, penis blood flow, etc.

Check above both your testicles for a "varicocele". This is an enlarged vein that is attached to your testicle. It will feel like a swelling in your scrotum on either side. If your testicles have shrank with no specific reasons you need a full hormone work out done and an evaluation by a urologist. Secondary hypogonadism is possible.

The fact you mentioned reduced seaman could be from reduced FSH/LH output from your piturity gland which could also explain the other hormonal problems you are experiencing too. Sometimes the mumps, chicken poxs, head tramua, etc can cause issues with the piturity that in turn cause hormonal issues and also the testicles.

You need to get the following checked:

Total Testosterone
Bioavailable Testosterone
Estradiol
DHT
LH
FSH
TSH
SHBG
Prolactin


@MPV

Doing good, thanks for asking. How about yourself?

Inguinal Hernia can cause all manner of problems including disturbances to the testicular vein plexas due to additional pressure on the testicular veins. Some men experience a spiking pain in the testicle(s) and shrinkage/atrophy or sluggish blood flow around the testicle. Both of which will cause leydig cell dysfunction and hormonal alterations. Inguinal Hernia could lead to varicocele formation which can then lead to testicular dysfunction/failture and hormonal abnormalities also.

This is something that should be looked into and fixed. An ultrasound can evaluate this and a simple out-patient procedure can be done to repair this. Testicular veins have no 'connections' with the penis so fixing this will only further improve testicular function.

Increased testicular size should be investigated. Diety changes or an increase of Zinc could cause this. Blood flow abnormalities should also be investigated.

Higher testosterone levels usually result in higher E2 which in turn can cause a smaller penis size but usually has no effect on erect penis size. How is your abdominal weight and health in general?

Feel free to ask anymore questions, i am here to help.




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How you doin agian megazoid?

Well I'm 6'2" about 185lbs, I workout on a regular basis i do have abdomonal muscles as well (abs), I jog, I push myself to the limits when working out, so I know im in pretty good shape! I'm also a personal trainer.

I know there is a size difference about 2" less than what it should be, I was pretty good before so 2" less still keeps me above average lol but I want to do whatever it takes to get it back! a man just isnt a man with out his penis. lol

It's a scary thought to go inside an operating room with idiot doctors waiting to cut you open, now thats frightening especially after hearing about all those horror surgeries gone wrong. I just don't want the idiot doctors to replace my penis with an arm or something, or even a finger! lol

I know I have to go for some sort of X-ray wether its a CT Scan, MRI, or Ultrasound? Isnt that for mothers with babies? And then possibly find a decent doctors with amazing crudentials to operate. Then take some hormonal drugs or something, I dont even know anymore. I thought about it for so long that I just don't care anymore, Im not stressed or anything, I'm far from it, I just do not care anymore! I work out, I'm pretty healthy.

I guess the first step is to be refered to a Urologist, hopefully a very good one, before I start thinking ahead of what I'm supposed to do.

Thanks for the advice
MVP

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Thanks a lot for all this information.You have given a new hope.

I felt shrinking in penis two years back, I guess this is the same time I started gaining weight. I am 5' 7" with 185 Lb now, a gain of 30 lb.I think it could be reason.I will follow up with the tests you recommended.

Anyways, another  bigger problem which I am concerned is the considerbale bending of my penis downwards.This is due to wrong style masturbation in childhood.I did lying on my stomache which I guess pressed the tissues just after the base.
I read somewhere that Vitamin E will help me.
Do you have any information in this issue.? Help will be appreciated.

Thanks



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I am glad you have gained a sense of hope. This is important for your mental state as well as physical. These problems can be resolved with correct treatment and time.

Penile blood flow and scrotal sensation is a complex balance between each the hormones and neurotransmitters.

Testosterone helps improve blood flow through the penis. However, an excess may actually reduce blood flow. For example, testosterone can both increase and decrease blood pressure - depending on its relationship (e.g. ratio, activity, level, etc.) to other hormones such as estradiol and DHEA.

Estradiol plays a role in penile blood flow. Perhaps when estradiol is too high or too low - for the particular individual - flow is affected negatively. In some people, a good level may be 25. In others - particularly those with higher end testosterone levels - a level of 40-50 may be better. So long as a person isn't exhibiting signs of excess estrogen (e.g. gynecomastia, prostate enlargement), then the use of Arimidex, DIM or ZMA to knock down estradiol may not be necessary.

Thyroid hormone plays a role in this also. Blood flow may be reduced and the scrotum retracted when thyroid hormone is too low since one's metabolism and temperature may be lower. The scrotum retracts to help maintain the testes at a certain temperature - not too high, not too low - for sperm production.

High norepinephrine levels - such as in anxiety states - may reduce blood flow by constricting blood arteries in general.

Adrenal fatigue may reduce blood flow by causing the brain to produce more norepinephrine.

Excess serotonin may reduce blood flow and sensation - by reducing dopamine and sex drive, by numbing sensations - as it blocks the sensation of stress.

There are many relationships like this among the hormones and neurotransmitters.

All "normal labs" tells me is that the lab results are within 2 standard deviations from the mean for that particular lab - i.e. the labs are within their reference range.

However, "normal" labs may still indicate illness - depending on the skill one has in reading the labs.

Vitamin e can be used to prevent scar tissue buildup and muscular atrophy in the collagen based penile tissue. I advise 800iu daily (2 'gel' based capsules are best). I also recommend promoting blood flow to the whole area roughly 4/5 hour's after taking this by showering and stretching the penis and promoting blood flow. It "is" possible to reverse tissue changes on some parts of the penis when hormones are balanced properly.

You never mentioned your age Donvar? Weight gain can be a sign of estrodiol dominence and/or high DHT levels.

Feel free to ask anymore questions.
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Anclerson, alcholol has various effects on penile blood and the endocrine system. I wouldn't recommend a urologist or endocrinologist for dealing with male hormonal problems, you won't get the answers you need. Your testosterone could be 1 or 2 points above the "normal" range and they would claim you are normal and healthy. The fact is, this isn't "healthy" for you and you have noticeable symptoms. You need to visit an anti-aging clinic (TRT/HRT specialists) who will get you back on track. You never mentioned where about you stay?

Alcohol has multiple negative effects on the endocrine system, such as:

1. Alcohol blocks the production of growth hormone and blocks the liver's production of IGF-1 in response to growth hormone. If a person is on growth hormone replacement therapy, a single glass of wine, can of beer, shot of liquor wastes that day's growth hormone dose. It is a waste of time and money to give growth hormone to a person drinking alcohol daily.

2. Alcohol is a simple sugar. The brain senses this and thinks it has enough adrenal cortisol production, then reduces arenal function for hours. Like eating a sugary candy or food or fruit juice, one can worsen adrenal function for hours by drinking alcohol. This causes fatigue that lasts long after the drink of alcohol.

3. Alcohol withdrawal can occur from non-abusive doses of alcohol. This can interrupt melatonin production and sleep.

4. Alcohol can suppress testosterone production by at least 40/50%, this could aggravate penile shrinkage symptoms.

Alcohol is toxic to practically every cell in the body. If one chooses to drink alcohol, it should be intermittently - as a treat so to say - rather than being regularly used.

The problems is, once your hormones are in order using whatever treatment is required you might be required to stop alcohol intake. I have had to make this sacrifice myself (I am also only 23 year's old - it's tough) but the sexual improvements are worth it.

I am on Testim (2 tubes daily) + HCG (250iu - mon-wed-fri) and getting high testosterone levels from this. I am taking ZMA, DIM, Vit B6, Vit E, Vit D + Calcium and a good multi-vitiam. So far so good, i am still not 100% perfect though.


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Thanks for the response. I thought it would safe to drink a small amount of alcohol since I am not currently on TRT. Guess I was wrong. I won't be touching it for awhile now. I should also mentioned that I have been experiencing constipation ever since I first got the penile shrinkage and ed. Thought they didn't have anything to do with each other at the time, but now that I'm still experiencing both, I'm pretty sure they are being caused by the same thing. Do you think there's anyway my problems may indicate a vascular problem? If so, why would alcohol affect it? Thanks.
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Megazoid, I saw yet another urologist that couldn't help me out. Very frustrating. I'm going to take the tests you recommended to an endocrinologist and see if they can figure out what the problem is. Also, I thought it would be important to note that after one beer my penis atrophy is greatly exacerbated. This I find disturbing considering I used to be able to drink a dozen beers playing beer pong (yeah I'm in college) and still perform perfectly sexually. Now after one my penis shrinks and there's no chance of getting an erection. Does this give you any insight as to what the problem is? Thanks again for all the help and support.
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Megazoid, I am living/going to school in Southern Ohio. I need to find a TRT/HRT specialist. Any suggestions? I'm very interested in HCG. Thanks.
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I'm going to start a cycle of Nolvadex (20mg/daily) to see if lowering my E-levels will give me any results. You suggested doing this before when I mentioned that I had low FSH. How exactly should Nolvadex raise my FSH and Testosterone levels? Thanks.
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Thanks for the info.
As about my information, I am 29 and I am from Houston,USA.
As per your advice, I will start Vitamin E.I also read that there is some cream
'verapamil' (a calcium channel blocker)  evidently helps break up the scar tissue.But is expensive $275.
http://www.malehealthcenter.com/c_peyronie.html

Other than this for shrinkage, I will go talk to my URO about these tests you mentioned.But you know, they always say every reading as normal, so where do I find  healthy mean/ranges for these tests.

Total Testosterone
Bioavailable Testosterone
Estradiol
DHT
LH
FSH : range = 1.5-8.0 mIU/mL
TSH
SHBG
Prolactin

Also I forgot to mention earlier,After shrinkage which was 2 years back,I got prominent veins on my penis with zigzag patterns similiar to mentioned by LightningTomater.Also I had a weak erection and seldom morning wood from childhood.
Anyways, good that you gave a number of options, an endocrinologist and Anti aging clinics.This is going to be a major personal project.
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The problems you are suffering all stem from a lack of neurotransmitters in the brain,which have been drained by over masturbation.Also your hormones have been depleted,dhea,testosterone.The lack of serotonin and dopamine also lead to body pains,premature ejaculation,watery semen etc etc.You should check out Dr Linns Viapal products.If you are under 30 then go for viapal J,if over 30 then Viapal P.
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Hey megazoid do you have a email adress would like a chat i have been taking 20 mg nolvadex and arimedex @ 0.5mg and my test has gone for 184 to 512 in 3 weeks i feel like a man again i did roids and shut my HPTA down for 6 years and only just trying to get it back been on PCT for 41 days so far. My next blood test will be in 2 week is i expect my test to be in the 650 to 700 range my age is 36 btw my fsh level were

LH 3.1
FSH 3.4
Now they are !!!

FSH 7.3
LH 7.6
So my problem was my piturity gland was shut down fingers crossed it will hold up after PCT what do you think ? I think the results are great
All the best zoidbar PS check out www.steroids.comforum some very good info on their i go by the name zoidbar.
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BTW guys dont just take nolvadex or you will get a build up of estrogen try a AI as well like arimedex or you may have a pair of titty as well no joke more estrogen and les test = big tittys = So you need to cut the estrogen down at the supply as nolvadex is a serm it will only block it at recepter site your body will make it all so if you have lower estrogen levels your body will make more test trust me as i have been limp for all most 6 years due to my own stupid mistakes Now i am horny and hard id say im about 75% better than i was still no morning wood but i think the nolva is doing that so after PCT i expect a rebound effect of estrogen and fingers crossed i will stay normal. Best of luck to all you guys as i know what your going though..
Zoidbar
PS: i will be happy to post my blood tests if you want to compair notes.
SHGB
Progestrion
LH
Test
FH
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Sorry my balls were hard and hang good but if i get hot or have a hot bath they get soft i am told most mens
do anyway so i guess that is not a problem for me. They never shrunk at all or whent back home if you know what i mean a i was producing test but in small quantity so they were still working. All the best..
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Sorry for the delay reply guy's, work has been very busy the past few days.

I am going back in myself for a follow up operation to rectify a reflux/back flow problem that exists in the side the varicocele was repaired. So back in for a venogram in the next 2 weeks.

@Anclerson - How are you getting on with the nolvadex treatment? Nolvadex should give you noticable LH/FSH elevation but without the correct tappering this has been known to fade back to normal months later. You must find how WHY your LH/FSH are low and why your piturity isn't sending out the right signals.

While this drug is very useful for treating secondary hypogodism and checking the feedback loop for problems it does come with it's own set of problems. Nolvadex is liver toxic when used for extended periods of time (i.e. more than a year). It can also reduce IGF-1 hormone up at 30% a day when used for extended periods of time.


@SOFTBALLS - I don't recommend taking both Nolvadex and Armidex because this will drop estridol and total estrogen down too low. Low E2 is dangerous for bone mineral density and another factor in ED and low libido.

Your LH wasn't too far off the normal scale. 3.9/4 is considered the average or normal scale so hopefully you will be able to bring your LH/FSH up to this range. Anything between 2/3 is the 'normal' for FSH.

FSH is responsible for sperm production and has a longer half-life than LH (which dependent on various factors is around 15/30 minutes).

Lack of morning wood is a sign that your estrdiol is too low. What are your levels like on Nolvadex alone? Have you considered using DIM as a natural AI?

It would be useful to have bioavailable T tested alongside Estridol and Free Estridol to build a better picture of what's happening with regards to estridol.

What symptoms of low t did you have Softballs? I assume your testicles were small and atrophied (thus the username?). Did you ever run HCG?

Keep me posted on your results guy's and i will try to continue replying to this thread.
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Dont think my estrogen is too low but im sure i will have a rebound effect , My estrogen level are as follows and mesaured in pmol/l do the converion for us.
Before any treatment !

Progestorone 2.0 nmol/l
Estrogen 56 pmol/l
LH 3.1 iu/l
FSH 3.4 iu.l
Teterone 6.3 nmol/l = 181.00 ng/dl in usa very bad.
SHGB 12 nmol/l

Now the next test is 2 weeks into my PCT using 20 mg of novadex perday and 0.5mg or arimedex this is a 45 50 day pct.

Progestorone 4.2 nmol/l
Estrogen 65 pmol/l
LH 7.6 iu/l
FSH 7.3 iu/l
Testerone 13.9 nmol/l
SHGB 18 nmol/l

The next set are 4 weeks into my PCT are as follows.

Estrogen 85 pmol/l = 23.1 pg/ml USA
LH 7.3 iu/l
FSH 7.4 iu/l
Testerone 17.8 nmol/l = 512 ng/dl in USA WOW
SHGB 20.0
PSA 0.8 ug/l

As you can see it made a lot of diffrence on my blood tests estrogen is under 30 pg/ml  and that where i want it to be , i will be getting blood work done on wendsday and will post friday for my results. Remember my HPTA ha been shut down for 5 to 6 years , I had a very high sex drive before and was all ways hard in the mornings. But in the last 5 years no hard on's and not much sex drive at all if any , Now i can do it twice in the eve with the girlfriend still no morning wood but solid when i have sex i am waiting for that rebound when i stop , I have gone down to 10 mg of nova and 0.25 of arimedex asd of today i will run it for another 10 days then stop wait 2 weeks and get blood done,  You asked what my symptoms were no morning wood no Sexsaual thoughts
**** would be floppy even when masterbating deppresion hot flushes all the signs of low test , My balls are rock hard 90% of the time and are all most over 2 inches in size and hang nice they allways have done. I have not used HCG but will use it if this fails only in 500iu per day as anythink higher could de senceatize your balls to LH my balls are working and producing sperm and i have noticed the last time i had sex it shot out as before it would dribble out so i would say i have no problems down stairs just my HTPA is out of sink and my fingers are crossed that my LEVELS will stay high and ajust after the drugs are stoped i have lost over 14 ilbs in weight in 4 weeks and feel like a new man no depresion very intrested in sex every day for the last 2 weeks and sometimes twice a day.
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I just got the Nolvadex today. I'm planning on taking a 20mg tab once daily. How long until you think I should see results (if I do see results)?  Thanks.
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Very difficult to say. Be careful with the nolvadex, this isn't just a herbal suppliment but a very powerful drug that is rather toxic to the liver when used in high dosages.

Don't run it for more than 3/6 weeks (imho) and see how you respond. You will need to get frequent blood work done to see how well you respond. Keep in mind that low estrogen can be as bad as high. So maybe try experimenting with half a tab a day rather than one full tab (10mg) to see how you get on.
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Nolva will make your albium level high as its very toxic on the liver i think your wasting your time doing nova on its own take a AI as well nolva is a serm and will not stop estrogen just a blocker it goes to recepter sites you will get a build up of etrogen and when you come off you will feel even worst than you did. Get blood work done as well or your wasting your time,,,
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Hi Megazoid, Hope all is well, I finally got the tests done after getting a referral from the primary to a Urologist. BTW I am 23 year old, athletic, healthy weight for my height 5'11' - exercise 4 times a week. I think my FSH is way to high and I am afraid I have testicular failure, but I produce sperm, less than normal (under 60 million) but more than infertile (anything under 20 million) I produce 50 million.

If you may have forgetten me, just scroll up a few posts, I am there!

Anyways, here are the results.

TSH:     1.100
FSH:     14.39 (Very High I think)
LH:      3.9
Prolac:  7.17
Free T:  2.5
Free S:  23.4
Total S: 937

High Semen Volume
Normal initial motility
Low 12 hour motility
High PH semen level (8)
Normal Viscosity

What do these results say to you? I think I may have a varicole as well, if so do you think i should get it repaired, and if so how will it help me? Any insight and advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I am pretty much all alone on the subject, except my girlfriend is being supportive at the moment, but I worry it could fade. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Best,

LT
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First off i would like to apologize for my lack of presence on this thread. I am here to support and help you guy's as much as possible.

I am a suffering from similar symptoms myself but on the road to recovery.

I have a venogram and additional coil embolization arranged for mid march to deal with the reflux/back flow i am suffering in the left testicle, because i didn't suffer leydig or testicular tissue death (the 'meat' of the testicles appeared normal and active on color doppler ultrasound) i could be looking to see good improvements after surgery. Varicocele caused all the problems for me.

For some reason you cannot post contact information here or else i would to help people privately if they wish. I will state that i will be setting up a website dedicated to mens hormonal issues and testicular disorders very soon (I will keep everyone posted). For now we can keep the discussion to this thread to help other people suffering from similar symptoms.

I have seen good improvements while on Androgel (10g's daily) + HCG 3 times a week. I take one ZMA at night and one DIM (as my 'natural' AI) to control E2 when needed. Learning to monitor the symptoms is the important part. The penis is a good guide to hormones and a good way of monitoring healthy T levels or more importantly T/E2 ratio.

LT, our symptoms sound very similar, right down to your build, age and penile symptoms (dry skin, shrinkage, etc). I also have a slight curve but not anything bad just an "arch" due to weakening of the muscles/ligaments in the groin area due to the low T (also probably due to the reduced elasticity of the penile tissues from low dht and e2). I am slowly improving this by doing proper exercises in this area and HRT.

I have seen guy's go for year's with penile shrinkage and recover back to there normal self with proper treatment (HRT). Getting T back into your body is the start. On a more positive note over at another health forum a bunch of guy's claimed actual 'gains' in size while injecting 150mg of T a week (Test Cyp). They noticed improvements in flaccid and erect size due to increased blood flow and increased DHT levels.

Elevated FSH would indicate testicular failure with regards to sperm production. FSH has a long half life (6+ hours) and generally when we move into double figures the sperm production 'tubules' of the testicle are not responding correctly or are somewhat damaged. Various factors could cause this: Mumps, Testicular Tramua (hard hit), infection, STD or varicocele/hernia. Have you had any of these?

The good new's however is that you don't have elevated LH (in fact very normal LH - 3.9 being the 'true' average, i was this also) which would indicate that you don't have leydig cell atrophy nor leydig cell death (or tissue fibrosis). However it's possible that if you do have a varicocele you could have caused programmed cell death of the sperm production part of the testicle. This would explain the testicular atrophy. Keep in mind that the testicle is made up of 80/90% of sperm production cells/tissue, so any shrinkage is usually related to this area. I have some questions for you:

1) Have you noticed any skin changes on your scrotum (thinning/thickening, etc)?

2) How much shrinkage have you noticed in the testicles?

3) Do you notice your scrotum is allot tighter than normal throughout the day?

4) What makes you think you have a varicocele? Can you feel enlarged (and sometimes painful) veins above your testicle? Some people describe it feeling like a bag of worms.

5) Do your testicles change consitency throughout the day (from hard to soft, etc)?

To be honest, your sperm look's fine but i would strongly advise banking some for safety (espically if you are going to need any form of TRT). With that said using HCG alongside is always recommend to keep the testicles 'ticking' along and producing some extra T.

Can you post your results with lab ranges please? This is helpful in the evaluation.

You didn't post your total T or Estridol (e2) which would be helpful in evaluating your situation also. DHT would be a bonus.

The subject of varicocele is highly debated but in my humble opinion getting it fixed is a wise move. This causes sluggish testicular blood flow, sperm abnormalities, testicular over-heating and generally dysfunction of the testicular cells. I went for embolization which removed the varicocele completely but i still had some back flow/additional 'channel' open causing reflux so i need another operation to fix this. After this is complete i will be able to tell how well it has worked by my hormonal blood work (also if my testicles respond better to HCG stimulation and regrow back to normal size).

I have seen some men with elevated FSH making exceptional improvements after varicocele repair (i.e. FSH going back down to 4/5 when previously double figures due to varicocele). The over-heating is more than likely the prime cause of sperm production dysfunction.

You will need to get an ultrasound (color doppler is prefered) to check for varicocele and sub-clinical varicocele.

How do you rate your sexual performance with regards to libido and erection quality? Can you still penetrate your girl or do you like to use ED drug's to boast confidence in this area?

Feel free to ask any more questions, i will do my best to answer any queries.








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Megazoid,

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WRITING BACK SO PROMPTLY.

I am glad to hear everything is going well for you, and hope it continues as such.
I am highly intrigued in all this knowledge, I was a pre-med major in college, before switching to Communications, oh well.

Moving forward, it is difficult to not stress out just a little because it looks as though I may not be able to produce a child based on this pattern. Do you think it is possible to lower the FSH and retain healthy sperm once again?

As for the questions you asked:

1. Yes I feel as though scrotum has gotten a lot tighter (all the time)
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Hi Megazoid, hope all is well. Hmm, I am both saddened and relieved to read your words of me having the strangest case ever. I honestly think that is what is going through my urologists head
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LT, glad my reply was of some help. I will continue to help you in solving this. Much like you i never got the answers i wanted or needed, so i done 2 year's of medical research to gain the knowledge i have now. Dealing with personal accounts and reviewing other peoples cases along the way helped me a great deal and i have become knowledged in the field of hormones and testicular disorders and dysfunction.

So far you have the strangest case i have seen. I am going to spend some time thinking about this one but will give you some feedback for now.

Estridol and DHT are responsible for flaccid and erect penis size and ultimately !quality' of the rection. You total t is the top of the testosterone range and one of the highest natural readings i have seen for a man of your age. You shouldn't be showing any symptoms of low testosterone and if you are your problems must be due to other hormones.

Low E2 could cause sperm production problems and high E2 could also cause sperm production problems. So this might be co-linked with your 'varicocele-like' symptoms of sperm dysfunction.

I would recommend getting the varicocele to see how thing's improve. Various factors contribute to the scrotal tightness and i believe varicocele is one of the factors. Low T also results in a hyer active scrotal muscle reflex which can cause the tightness. However you're total t is in range making me assume that E2 is the problem here.

For removal of ED symptoms a total t of 650+ is required and this is considered the top end of the scale, so being 900+ is very good and one shouldn't be showing ED symptoms in this range. However this could be leading to problems with elevated E2 and free e2, which would explain the ED symptoms and perceived shrinkage. Your penis should and will not shrink with a total t of this level. So rest assured i am confident that when we get more blood work done and answer a few more questions we will have more answers.

I feel condident in saying that your problems exist in high total estrogen or high free e2. I recommend in this case getting the following blood work done:

Total T
Bioavailable T
SHBG (very important!)
Estridol
Free Estridol
DHT
LH
FSH
Prolactin


Please answer the following yes or no.

High estrogen (Can mean zinc, b-6, magnesium deficiency):

no morning wood
no sex drive
no desire to love
crying no apparent reason
**** hurt
no appetite
no energy
sore joins
agin skin
constipation (lack of serotonin, dehydration)
can not **** (enlarge prostate)
work out suck ass
no desire to be in the gym
have no feelings feel emotionially NUMB
Hair falls out
low body temperatire, high some times
adrenal fatigue
infections - comprmise immune system
lack of dreams - due to rem sleep
suciidal thoughts and irraitional thoughts
social isolation

Low
no morning wood
get fat belly - from lack of estrogen ( fatty liver)
homocystein levels rise
heart disease
atheroclrosis
weight loss
gain fat easily
loose muscle
increased infections

Blood cells in the sperm could be related to varicocele. Again, E2 could be to blame too. I had the same thing happen to me also but 'traces' of blood were found in my urine.

Have you ever had chicken pox, mumps or any other 'infection' you can recall that effected that area at all? Did you ever twist or get kicked hard in the testicles?

High FSH dosen't always mean bad sperm production, the testicles need to be seriously damaged to end up with no sperm production, i wouldn't worry too much about being infertile as i believe once the varicocele is repaired your testicle will resume normal function.

For now i recommend trying to take a ZMA suppliment before bed and also trying some DIM at dinner time. DIM is a natural aromotize inhibator which will reduce both total estridol and also free e2. I can't post links here but search for "ritecare" and order from there. They ship worldwide and provide the highest quality DIM available. This is the best natural suppliment you can get. It's well known in the hormone world as being as potent as prescription drugs for similar usuages.

Feel free to ask anymore questions.
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Megazoid, I got an MRI done and it came back negative for anything wrong with my pituitary (tho it did find a cyst in my pineal glad).  I was also checked for HIV and hemochromatosis, both of which were negative.  My blood results were as follows:

Good Results:
Prolactin 7.5
Estradiol 21

Not so good:
FSH 1.2 (Range = 1-19)
LH  2.8 (Range = 2-11)
Total T 436 (Range = 240-950)
Free T 10.9 (Range = 9-30)

The doctor told me that since I still fall in these "normal" ranges that there is nothing he can do. Obviously I'm NOT OK with this. I'm depressed, my **** is shriveled up, I've gained weight, and I can't even drink alcohol or it makes everything 10 times worse. I've tried for over 4 months now to get this treated and haven't made any progress. It won't matter much longer, but I want to thank you for all your help and support.
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Anclerson, when you say it won't matter much longer, please don't even consider suicide or anything of the kind. I went through this myself and almost lost my family, girlfriend and own life due to suicide because of this illess. I won't let it happen to anyone else. This is treatable and if you read up you will see i am making good progress from what 'could' be considered worse, primary testicular failure (or primary hypogonadism). Your testicles work so they will respond well to HCG stimulation and you will be able to get your T level up (including free t).

It's an ironic situation because weight gain in itself causes elevated estrogen. I believe you are suffering from low SHBG and because of this an E2 level of 21 would be considered "high" even though your E2 is actually in the perfect range for a normal T range male.

With regards to your results, your LH is low. A normal LH is 3.9 (or above, but not double figures). So technically you are suffering from secondary hypogonadism of unknown origin. Don't settle for being mistreated this happens to many men and they suffer for years.

You know you are not right, i know you are not right, so do something about it. If it means self-medicating, so be it. You want answers and you want your life back.

I am here to support and help you, believe me when i say this, because i say this from my heart. I have had the same terrible ordeal with doctors and not being treated properly.

What we have is treatable and you will get your penis and erections back. Trust me.

Some guy's go for years suffering with these symptoms with lower levels than you have. Some with 100/200 range and get NO answers.

You need to visit an anti-aging clinic. I don't know where you stay so can't recommend anyone but if you are in the US i recommend www.allthingsmale.com. Dr John is the best in the world at treating this condition, he will give you the help and medication required.

At the end of the day it might just come down to shooting 125/150mg of Test a week and going back to your old self in a matter of months. Using some HCG would be an added bonus on the 5/6 day.

In the mean time get your hand's on some DIM and ZMA. Take one ZMA before bed and one DIM at dinner time. Monitor yourself by using "morning wood" as your gauge. I believe your SHBG is low and your Free E2/E2 is high due to this.

You need more blood work done:

Total T
Bioavailable T
Estridol
Free Estridol
SHBG
Prolactin
DHT
LH
FSH
TSH

Just remember, i am here to help, i really do know how much hell this can be. Feel free to ask anymore questions.
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I just found this post and its both worrying and reassuring at the same time. I share some similarities and differences with those that have posted before: 5'11' 190lbs, 22 y/o, pretty good shape though the worst I've been in for a while. 2 years ago i was 8" in length and now it seems i've lost 1.5" and a considerable amount of girth. Interestingly, this has become most noticeable since I've STOPPED taking Propecia! Thats right; i'm one of the lucky few of us to start balding very young. In fact, until sept when i stopped taking it, i had been on Propecia for 6 years.

When i was first prescribed it, i was told the only possible side effect was acne and some sexual disfunction, which were never a problem, but i do remember noticing that my flaccid size was much smaller and more dense than normal. I also noticed an incredible range in erection size with little or no apparent cause. Since then, when drunk (once/mo for 1st 2yrs at college), I've been experiencing difficulty urinating accompanied with exceptional shrinkage, impotence, and pain in my right testicle (larger than the left, ultrasound came back clean). I've always chalked these problems up to some form of divine punishment for my vices hehehe. Lately, these symptoms have cropped up in day to day life, and the last time i had a drink was Christmas.

When i've spoken to doctors about this, they've consistently responded  with snide allusions to me being paranoid and 'worrying too much'. I also suffer quietly from depression and anxiety, which provides a convenient crutch for their suggestions. Interestingly, my psychological problems have always been frustrating to me because i have a very positive and active outlook on the world; they've always felt so forced and external.

It seems from what's been written, that a great deal of my symptoms could be related to hormonal trouble and i'll look into this, though i'll once again have to force my way through my reputation as a hypochondriac before I'll get any help from the doc.

Megazoid, could you explain the impact of propecia on DHT cycling in relation to penile shrinkage, and possibly shed some light on this 'rebound' reaction that appears to be happening to me? Also, your post's have been consistently well written and informative; some of the best writing I've seen on the web for years. Thanks for taking the time for the rest of us, we all appreciate it very much.

Also, aren't there inherent risks to taking exogenous androgens? eg. gynecomastia and forms of cancer?

I hope this topic isn't dead cause i could really use some help with this,

Thanks!
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Special thanks for the kind words Tongus. I try my best to help everyone where possible, sometimes i think my writing style is a little 'off' because i am either tired or my concentration isn't too hot (which estridol ironically has an effect on). So please stay with me and i will try to help you...

In true honesty this illness caused me to attempt suicide because nobody could give me any answers i needed a year or so ago, and much like you i was made to feel like an idiot by doctors and told i had depression. I lost everything; my family, friends, girlfriend and my will to live, but for some reason hope stood by my side and i kept fighting like i had from the first day i came into this world.

Having a cousin that is wheel chair ridden and on a constant oxygen supply for life made me appreciate what really is important (she was a world renowned dancer that lost her lung function when she was only 20). She didn't get a chance to experience life, she would never visit a pub, club or enjoy a walk by the beach with a partner. If she can overcome these boundaries i can overcome these. The only thing different is this is slightly more 'sensitive' because of the nature of it.

As much as i hate to say this Tongus, you have been subjected to one of the worlds most dangerous drugs and one that is known to cause secondary hypogonadism. Nobody in the medical world actually knows the true effects of this drug. But it obviously effects the conversation process between testosterone and DHT, either at enzyme level or by radically lowering T/Free T. Lowering DHT while on the drug lowers E2 at the same time (a similar effect to DIM but not as dangerous).

The reason everything got 'worse' when you came off was because your HPTA got locked into a negative state and your LH/FSH will be around 2 now most likely. This in turn has caused low testosterone (and low free t most likely) which have aggravated your symptoms such as penile shrinkage.

DHT effects the penile tissue as does E2. If E2 is raised getting an erection is difficult and your flaccid penis size would be reduced.

DHT is the hormone responsible for "all things male" and the development of secondary sexual charactistics throughout puberty. This includes penile development and muscle/tissue growth.

Difficulty urinating can be due to prostate enlargement which can be trigged by a rapid rise in E2 (and/or DHT). This could be a rebound effect of the drug (which effects DHT).

Alcholol has profound effects on all hormones. Including lower total testosterone and raising estridol (however, slightly more complex in men than women). Try to avoid this completely.

Testicular pain is a known side effect of propecia and one of the first warning signs of the drug. Testosterone and DHT effect N.O. production which effects the blood flow througout the body. This can effect the small blood vessels and can cause testicular pain. I believe this could be due to the effect on the small blood vessels or alternations in estridol (which effects sperm production).

At this stage you need to get a full hormone workout with the following labs run:

Total Testosterone
Free testosterone (or bioavailable)
Estridol
Free Estridol (if possible)
DHT
LH
FSH
Prolactin
SHBG

It's more dangerous to live with low testosterone levels than high. The risks involved far outway the risks of doing HRT.

The only time one should worry is when pre-existing cancer or gynecomastia is a problem. Even then, taking an AI (a drug used to control excess estridol production) is usually enough to control the gynecomastia.

Testosterone treatment does NOT cause cancer, no matter what you are told. If anything it prevents it by strengthening the immune system and helping with a faster recovery time.

Do you feel like you are suffering from symptoms of low testosterone with the exception of the penile shrinkage? Can you still get erections? Could you penetrate for example?

Feel free to ask any additional questions.
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Thats interesting about Propecia being linked to testicular pain. I usually am a total fanatic about understanding the pharmacology of the chemicals i ingest but for some reason i always tried to pretend i never even took the stuff. I always felt weak for taking it because, like you, i've seen many people cope with so much worse than going bald at a young age; i thought it was something i should be able to swallow so i just tried to forget about it. Like you, as well, there have been some really hard times (now, for instance) where everything seems to pile up, but in the interest of a brighter future i keep on keepin-on.

I'm going to call the doctors office tomorrow and get some tests scheduled - here in Canada its much easier to do than for those of you in the states, I'm sure. I also think theres some pretty comprehensive blood work from when i was still on the propecia, so it will be interesting to compare.

I'm multitasking at the moment trying to get some lab reports done for tomorrow (hideously boring enzyme kinetics assays), so i'm not read up on the testosterone deficiency stuff yet and not sure what all the symptoms are- i'll get caught up tomorrow. Generally, i have a relatively strong sex drive, but my equipment doesn't always cooperate accordingly. I can usually achieve an erection but i lose it without constant stimulation and often during intercourse. Morning wood is a rare thing for me, though i generally am much more full in the mornings (compared to the dense compact package later on in the day). I have trouble with sleeping and waking, emotional ups and downs which are rarely connected to anything of consequence, i sweat more than the average bloke and have generally clammy skin. In terms of my build, i have probably 5lbs of fat more than i would ideally, and i have noticed an asymmetry in the way my body puts on muscle mass when i work out (which i do fairly often).

Not sure whether or not that fits the bill. The above is by no means exhaustive, though, and it feels like i have an infinite list of things that are out-of-wack.

Something sorta off topic- in your readings did you come across any info regarding the physiology of the cold-stimulus induced shrinkage response? Its obviously nervous rather than endocrine, but the effect is apparently identical.  Any comments?








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Megazoid, I have a strange theory that I wanted to share with you as to the cause of my problems.  For two years I had been taking prescription paroxetine (Paxil) for depression. I stopped taking it about the middle of last summer.  I noticed about 2 months after that I was experiencing constipation. I knew that it had something to do with not being on Paxil anymore. It has since persisted and I am still having it. My question for you is: Is it possible that being on the Paxil long-term some how caused my body to acclimate to elevated levels of serotonin and not properly readjust once I discontinued it? Also, is there anyway this could have something to do with why my pituitary is not producing enough LH and FSH now?  I know this isn't necessarily your area of expertise, but figured I'd at least ask you and see what you think. Thanks.  
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Hey guys. Here for some help on my problem as well. I use to be a very normal male in my late 20's and early 30's. No problems with erections, libido, or sexual intercourse. I then began having a strange problem in maintaining erections, my libido dropped to nothing, and sexual satisfaction was hard to achieve with my wife, do to this. This went on for about a year, until me and my wife split because of it. This was hard to take. I then went to a urologist for answers and help. He did blood work the results are:

LH--4.4  (reference range is 1.5-9.3)
FSH--6.4 reference range is 1.4-18.1)
total testoserone--320 ng/dl--extremely low for a 32 year old. normal should the in the 700-900 range.  
Prolactin---5.1 (reference range is 2.1--17.7).

Test revealed that for the most part my hypothalamus/pituitary are functioning normal. So I believe my problem to be with the testicles. I knew of the benefits of hcg and asked my urologist for this course of treatment. He sub-specializes in fertility treatment, so I thought he would agree. He basically told me that they dont treat at the clinic with hcg, and that hopefully my test levels will improve with time, after the stress had wore off. He mentioned TRT, which I dont want to do because it will probably exacerbate my symptoms. The problem is if my doctor wont prescribe me hcg, and novaldex, how do you get them. Is there away to get them without a prescription. I just need answers on were everybody is getting their prescriptions from, or is everybody;s doctor more abreast of these issues then mine. I would really like to get on HCG, and novaldex, but dont know were to go now. please help
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Sorry for the late response guys. I will be able to give a fuller reply to everyone tomorrow, i need some time to think about the paxil one properly but i have my theories on this.

erahman, you are new to the thread so i thought i would spend some time answering your questions.

You are not suffering from complete testicular failure but your LH/FSH are very, very slightly elevated above the normal range but by no means abnormal in this case.

Have you had any past history of testicular tramua, infections, varicocele/hernia or anything else that could have sparked your feelings towards testicular failure?

What is your height, weight and general health like? Can you give me a run down of your diet too please. It's possible your problem is simply elevated estridol.

I could give you a source to HCG but i can't post links or email addressees on this forum.

Generally HCG alone isn't enough to stimulate a high enough Total Testosterone level without using high dosages which risk leydig cell desensitization. It's best to use a combination of TRT + HCG to get all the benefits.

I am thinking myself about switching to test e injections at either 125/150mg a week plus HCG 2/3 times weekly to see how thing's improve with time. I am scheduled for a venogram + embolizational (coil based) in 2 weeks time and really hope i start to see some natural improvements after this one.

I would advise everyone to try taking ZMA (or 30mgs of Zinc) before bed and see how they feel the next morning/day. I would also advise some experimentation with DIM, which is a natural OTC suppliment with 'prescription-like' AI qualities. If you have an E2 problems this is good for testing.
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FYI - I too was prescribed paxil about 2 years ago, I only took it for 2 months, and then quit cold turkey. I had withdrawl symptoms, and I really do believe until this day it has lowered my libido a little bit and possibly messed me up internally. Paxil is probably the worst medicine for ED - the reason I was given it - When it turns out I didn't even have ED then, just a few bad nights of sex...Be vary weary of the Doctors....I was prescribed unnecessary paxil, and then valtrex when I dont even have herpes, but the doctor "thought" i did, even though several blood tests said otherwise 2 weeks later...Just be wary of any perscription without a sound medical explanation and benefit, Dr's make $ from writing perscriptions.
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I would not take testorone or you will just shut your own production down do your home work or you will be in a worst state that you was originaly get blood tests before you even consider take'ing drugs . You will shut your HTPA down and you will be on HRT for the rest of your life. Go steroid dot com.
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My blood test from 181 test too 585 ng/dl i am a man again.

I said i would post my blood test so hear it is for anyone wanting to see what nolvadex and arimedex does to your test levels 50 days on nolvadex and arimidex.

Feb 23
FSH 8.9 iu/l
LH 9.3 iu/l
TEST 20.3mnol/l  585ng/dl us measure.
SHGB 18
Prolactine 211mu/l 5.8 ng/ml
Estrogen 96 pmol/l 26 pg/ml
Progesterone 3.6 nmol/l 1.1 ngml

If you compair my first blood test before i started and this one i have prob added 10 years back on my life i have lost over 16lbs feel better in myself still no morning wood ? But i can have ex now with a solid hard on before i was not intrested. Good luck guys i have another BT in 2 weeks and will post reults as i am not taking the drugs no more if they fall i will take 500 iu of HCG every other day with nolva at 10 mg . I miss the morning wood.
Good luck.
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Megazoid, Have you given any thought to the effects of Paxil? Also, I have noticed that my testicles are now fluctuating in size substantially throughout the course of the day. Usually large in the morning and very small at night. Do you know what's causing this? Thanks.
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I haven't had a proper chance to think about the paxil issue but it has been noted "sometimes" drug's of this nature can cause prolactin fluctations and in some cases secondary hypogonadism.

Regarding the fluctuating testicular size, this is difficult to comment on. I am experiencing the exact same problem myself. I am putting mine down to varicocele but i DO know testosterone, DHT and E2 all effect blood flow to that area so it's a bit of a complex situation. T/DHT effect N.O. production which could cause blood flow alterations in that area. I remember you saying you had varicocele surgery also? Did you ever experience before the piturity issues?

I am hoping HCG will help restore testicular size/function after i get my second varicocele venogram + embolization.
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I am 22 and can relate to a lot of this. I once felt assured about most things "down there" so to speak but not now. I even feel I have had bowel problems that could be related.

I feel like my hormones have been taken away from me as ridiculous as it sounds. I just have such a lack of desire and weak erection that seems an effort to gain that isn't worth mentioning since PE is more than likely to kick in now. This is driving me mad because I don't know how to explain this to my GP and have no idea what has happened to me, it almost feels mysterious.

I am getting concerned it could be my prostate that has somehow become infected or something I am only 22 and now almost feel lifeless down below its driving me mad. I have recently tried taking saw palmetto and drinking lots of green tea and going with the 5 fruits and veg a day routine. It may have made my bowel movements more comfortable I still feel inadequate in most ways when it comes to the the thought of regaining a healthy sex life through getting and maintaing an erection and even having the desire in my labido to do so

Although discomfort after ejaculation has eased off along with the anal soreness I still feel my orgams have become weaker also. It is probably now because it doesn't take much to make it happen! I have been reading through the cleanprostate website and am considering
the sitz bath approach to try and fix myself up a bit if it is possible to cleanse the prostate then it has to be positive I would assume because it seems so complex I don't know where to start! One thing I am going to self-check is my PSA levels although I seem young to be checking it I will

I worry that it is my hormones effecting my flaccid general state its like it is trying to tell me something isn't right with my constitution. I am now starting on what will hopefully be a road to at least improvement. I have started consuming Avena Sativa (vigorex) that is supposed to free up testosterone in the body and promotes good mood with the combination of one 500mg of l'Arginine a day and have noticed the benefits in labido - I also keep China Brush for sex if I need it because it desensitises the penis for a long erection but doesn't feel very natural at all. Its just things like being at work or just in general and feeling like your penis has fell off doesn't do your confidence or self-esteem any good at all, I would assume I am having some major hormone imbalance. I don't know what to expect with the appearence of my limp penis for instance sometimes if im sitting down watching TV at home I might feel "hung again" its crazy!

It's almost like being "cut off" quite literally from the world. Walking around not having it fill your pants so to speak in your adult life is one of the worst things I can think of. I have tried to eat as healthy as possible etc but I can't help feeling cursed and know alcohol seems a negative thing now. I have had a blood test checking my general health including colon function etc and it came back ok but obviously its looking like I need my hormones checking by a urologist although its still hard to think I am going to have to tell my GP I am potentially impotent. I am thinking of starting with a home hormone self test kit to check my testosterone and estradiol to start with that will hopefully give me some indication of whats happening and I haven't gone completely mad over these past few years.

I am interested in maybe self-medicating also with DIM and ZMA for the time being but can I please have some specific product names from ritecare because I am still getting to grips with understanding my condition and how I can help myself feel better and have no experience with this. I looked on the Iherb website and seen a few products for DIM including one by nature's way who are usually reliable. Should I keep taking l'arginine aswell and Avena Sativa? I find this great because it is such a stimulant almost like a natural anti-depressant
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i forgot to mention i am now only 19
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i am freaking out reading some of these symptoms....i have grown up from a young age feeling inadequate sexually and at 16 i was had a mental breakdown because i was sure i couldnt have kids. athletic physicals and store bought fertility tests assuaged my fears. i've always had a "tumor" like thing on my left testicle which seemed to grow as my testicle shrunk....i have come to realize that it is a varicocle and i am now developing one on my right side. i find myself not visually aroused like many of you and i am scared for my sex life once again. do these veins affect penis size? i have taken pills to increase penis size but to no avail. please help
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Thanks for that megazoid. I look forward to seeing your website when its up and going and appreciate your help on such a sensitive subject for men to deal with.

As far as I know my testicles feel ok and haven't suffered any trauma but I agree I definitely need the full blood workout to learn more on my condition and what to do next

The lifestyle question is ironic to my condition because I am what you could call an ideal weight for my size maybe a little lighter than I could be and I am physically active every day. I am a little paranoid about general health anyway so I eat good and consume plenty of fruit and veg. I also take a few supplements like garlic and fish oils to aid my general health

Thankyou for the heads up on saw palmetto I will definitely rule that out in future.

The testosterone problems listed are classic when applied to me I could tick almost every box in one of your previous posts for High Estrogen - feeling melancholic, rundown, unenthusiastic, irrational thoughts, antisocial, no dreams and no desire to work out etc etc. Its a nightmare! The only thing that hasn't changed is my erect penis size, I think that would be the last straw!

I would like to know more about obtaining Androgel if it is necessary. I have seen other testosterone boosting creams etc but don't know much about their quality. I have also read Tribulus Terestris  boosts your testosterone by increasing the LH levels in your system but don't know if this is beneficial to me. I don't know much about l'arginine except claims I read that it increases blood flow and prolongs erections by "pumping up the body's natural supply of nitric oxide"

The first thing I will do now is get some ZMA and try to get the full hormone check I need as soon as possible. Could it be that I have both low testosterone and high estrogen? Would high estrogen account for most shrinking symptoms and whats the best way to keep DHT in check?

Thanks for the help and knowledge it means a lot!
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OK Guy's, i've also had allot to deal with the past few weeks, alongisde the emotional bagage of dealing with hypogonadism. I will do my best to reply to the new posters and hopefully give some light in the situation.

myspacegeek:

If you develop a varicocele on one side (left for example) it can turn into a bi-laterial disease because of the hormonal inbalance it can trigger. So it's possible for both nut's to shrink/atrophy.

The testicular veins are in no way related to penile blood flow or vascular system. However they do effect penis size by effecting hormone secretion from the testicles. Technically speaking, yes, varicocele can cause penis shrinkage but not permanent (unless left for maybe 6+ years without 'monitoring' health, diet, estrogen intake, etc).

Usually getting the varicocele repaired yelds good results with regards to sperm improvements and testosterone are high.

I did become impotent from varicocele but this was reversed using proper HRT. You don't actually need your testicles to function (unless you are really worried about fertility).

However, getting the varicocele repaired (embolization is recommend over surgery imho) and using HCG alongside any kind of TRT (injections are best in most cases). I will be switching to Test E (125/150mg) weekly alongside HCG 2x weekly to promote testicular health improvements and fertility.

Store bough fertility test kits are inaccurate and shouldn't be used as a guage for sperm production. I have a friend who suffered from bi-laterial varicoceles (both testicles) from the age of 13 to 19. By the time he turned 19 he had full blown testicular failure (i.e. highely elevated LH/FSH). After getting the varicoceles repaired, within 3 months his sperm count went up to 3million from zero. Complete infertility is VERY rare. HCG almost 'always' works even for sevre primary hypogonadism suffers like him. It's used by body builders to regain testicular size/function in time for proper PCT.

I advise getting your hormone levels checked. Explain your sypmtoms to a doctor/GP or even better, a urologist. I have listed the required tests in the above threads.

cjones84:

In cases of varicocele, the bowel can put preasure on the abdominal floor which in turn causes disturbance of the testicular vein plexus. This dosen't happen with everyone but CAN happen. Have you checked yourself for testicular abnormalities like hernia, varicocele, infection, tramua (hard kick, etc), etc?

You need to get a full copy of all your blood work or get fresh blood work done with the tests listed above. This would give a much better idea of what's happening with you and your situation.

How is your lifestyle, diet, weight/height, etc? All these factors are VERY important in understanding this situation.

Prostate is possible but unlikely. Prostate problems are 'generally' caused by high estrogen intake or DHT distrubances. PSA isn't an accurate enough gauge to monitor this, ultrasound exam is better.

I would strongly avoid saw palmetto in all cases for prostate problems. This is a DHT inhibator (to a degree) though not as powerful as the likes of prescribes drugs like Proscar, etc. DHT is the most important hormone for sex drive, erection quality, etc. Messing with this can lead to all kind's of problems.

The anal pain and prostate problems could be co-linked with low testosterone or high estrogen. A common 'problem' with hormone problems is mucular atrophy in the prostate area which can cause pain for some during ejaculation and give the false impression of prostate aggrivation.

Do you have any other symptoms of testosterone problems? such as low energy, muscle/joint pains, tiredness, etc?

The ratio of T/E effects flaccid size. DHT also contributes to penile tissues. I feel it's important to get a full hormone work out (not a self-test kit) from a reputable lab. Salvia testing isn't accurate.

I don't disagree with you at all regarding your comment about being the worst thing ever, i fully agree. However there is hope and you will overcome this. If i can, you will.

TRT is the answer for me until my nut's for want of a better word, stop going nut's.

I would take one ZMA before bed but stay away from DIM until you have an accurate idea where your hormones are sitting. Low E2 is almost as bad as high E2, so be careful.

Take what suppliments you feel happy with, personally i would avoid l'Arginine because it dosen't have enough evidence to back it up and what evidence it does have claims more negative than positive (more so in high dosages).

Feel free to ask more questions.
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No problem at all for the help, i will keep everyone posted on the progress of the website, i want to get my own health and mental state back to normal before going ahead with it however. Still feeling a little run down myself (not helped that i am back to work now).

Basically there are recepter 'sites' on your body which hormones bind to. Testosterone, DHT and Estridol all 'fight' (for lack of a better word) for these sites/cells. Usually if someone has high estridol (or total estrogens) and they lower this using something simple like armidex (the best drug and safest) the total testosterone and free testosterone is dramitcally improved (sometimes up 40/50%) just by lowering E2.

It's ironic because you seem to fit my own description of being very thin (maybe a little underweight) and of similar height/build. People with more body fat or people who are overweight have higher estrogen levels as fatty tissue generally causes higher estrogen levels. One of the reasons behind gynocoastia is estridol binding to the breast recepter sites in men for example causing tissue growth.

I would avoid all suppliments except ZMA or if you prefer, Zinc. 30/50mg daily of Zinc is a good alternative to ZMA and usually a little cheaper. This won't reduce the already available estrogen in the blood stream but will stop the aromitization at liver level for any new testosterone production that could potentially convert to estrogen.

Let me explain a theory:

If you have very very low SHBG due to whatever reason, this results in a high FREE estrogen level (can be tested with saliva test). The more testosterone secreted the lower SHBG would go, the higher free E2 went. This high free E2 displaced the Free Tetosterone binding to SHBG. Therefore even though I could have high total test levels, Free test was very low. This would explain the small flaccid size yet high total testosterone.

Normal adult sized testicles should be roughly between 1.5/2+ inches in size (length) and 1inch in width. They should appear normal with bumps, lumps, etc.

Your symptoms of low t could simply be high E2, this can replicate the same symptoms as low t. Try taking the ZMA/Zinc first and see how thing's progress or if you make any improvement. But be sure to get full blood work done and post the results here when you get them. I will help you find the answers.

I wouldn't jump onto androgel right away, i was the same build as you and all it did for me was raise E2/DHT but not total T so i continued to suffer all the symptoms of low t but flaccid size increased a bit.

Actually loosing erection size is rare but it can happen. This would generally only happen in the really long term though.

If you lower E2 you will free up more testosterone and DHT in the body which should improve your symptoms a little.

Nobody should need to suffer ANY of these symptoms when it can be easily treated. We are young guy's and deserve good healthy physical, mental and sexual life. It's about time we all took life by the balls and fixed this issue.

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No problem at all for the help, i will keep everyone posted on the progress of the website, i want to get my own health and mental state back to normal before going ahead with it however. Still feeling a little run down myself (not helped that i am back to work now).

Basically there are recepter 'sites' on your body which hormones bind to. Testosterone, DHT and Estridol all 'fight' (for lack of a better word) for these sites/cells. Usually if someone has high estridol (or total estrogens) and they lower this using something simple like armidex (the best drug and safest) the total testosterone and free testosterone is dramitcally improved (sometimes up 40/50%) just by lowering E2.

It's ironic because you seem to fit my own description of being very thin (maybe a little underweight) and of similar height/build. People with more body fat or people who are overweight have higher estrogen levels as fatty tissue generally causes higher estrogen levels. One of the reasons behind gynocoastia is estridol binding to the breast recepter sites in men for example causing tissue growth.

I would avoid all suppliments except ZMA or if you prefer, Zinc. 30/50mg daily of Zinc is a good alternative to ZMA and usually a little cheaper. This won't reduce the already available estrogen in the blood stream but will stop the aromitization at liver level for any new testosterone production that could potentially convert to estrogen.

Let me explain a theory:

If you have very very low SHBG due to whatever reason, this results in a high FREE estrogen level (can be tested with saliva test). The more testosterone secreted the lower SHBG would go, the higher free E2 went. This high free E2 displaced the Free Tetosterone binding to SHBG. Therefore even though I could have high total test levels, Free test was very low. This would explain the small flaccid size yet high total testosterone.

Normal adult sized testicles should be roughly between 1.5/2+ inches in size (length) and 1inch in width. They should appear normal with bumps, lumps, etc.

Your symptoms of low t could simply be high E2, this can replicate the same symptoms as low t. Try taking the ZMA/Zinc first and see how thing's progress or if you make any improvement. But be sure to get full blood work done and post the results here when you get them. I will help you find the answers.

I wouldn't jump onto androgel right away, i was the same build as you and all it did for me was raise E2/DHT but not total T so i continued to suffer all the symptoms of low t but flaccid size increased a bit.

Actually loosing erection size is rare but it can happen. This would generally only happen in the really long term though.

If you lower E2 you will free up more testosterone and DHT in the body which should improve your symptoms a little.

Nobody should need to suffer ANY of these symptoms when it can be easily treated. We are young guy's and deserve good healthy physical, mental and sexual life. It's about time we all took life by the balls and fixed this issue.

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Ok, here goes my story:

20 y/o college student, when I was in the fall of my sophomore year (1 1/2 years ago) I noticed decreasing feeling in my penis - fast forward to today, and I have no feeling, no libido, no morning wood, and I literally have this ache between my legs because it shrinks so much when flaccid that I can't feel my penis.

I have gone to have an MRI of my lower back (I have scoliosis) - nothing to see. I had a nerve test of some sort - likewise, hooked up to some nerve receptor things and everything looks great. Sounds perfect so far, but I still can't feel anything. I had a blood test of some sort, checking for Testosterone levels, and everything came back "OK" (I never saw the results)

What should I do now? I am literally in the best place to be in the world, can go to the hottest nightclubs on this planet, am great with girls, but I will never bring one back because of this little problem. Help me out...
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As much as i want to offer everyone personal advice, keep in mind i am also dealing with this and getting NO support from my family, friends, etc. I have lost everything because of this and sometimes i seriously consider suicide as an option at times too.

I am doing everything in my power to hold on for hope, but sometimes this simply fades because my whole life has been turned around.

Just because your doctor say's everything is "normal" dosen't mean it IS normal. Obviously you are suffering, so something must be wrong.

You need to obtain a copy of the lab results and post the results here. Scholosis can be caused by hormone definicey during puberty, maybe this problem has been long running.

Can you give me a description of your lifestyle, weight/height, body fat ratio, diet, alcholol intake, etc?

Do you have any other symptoms of low testosterone or high estridol?

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Wow.  I had no idea there were so many others that this was happening to.  Well, its been months since my original post.  Nothing has changed.  I went back to my urologist and he said, again, that's life.  Hormone levels (testosterone free & clear) as well as prolactin levels were in the normal.  Still feels like I have nothing in my pants when I walk around.  Still feel like **** every morning I wake up, but at least I am still waking up.  Alone.  

I'm thinking about heading to see a Johns Hopkins Urologist.  They were rated #1 recently by U.S. News & World Report.  Maybe I'll get some crabcakes while I'm down there.

If there are any persons in the Urological field who have any input on my symptoms listed in my original post, please advise.  I am living, but certainly not alive.
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Hi megazoid. Hang in there buddy, we are all e-friends suffering similar situations. Maybe I'm not the strangest case you've heard of anymore? (Based on all the new postings). I finally got blood work done again, and this time he checked the estriadol levels.

FSH: 13
Estriadol: 26 pg/ml

From what I can tell, the FSH is still high, but the E levels aren't high like you had thought was causing my problems. If you get some time could you please give me some feedback on what could be going on? I appreciate it. Best of luck and continued success friend.
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Pmaule, have you ever taken any SSRIs? If so, you may be experiencing Post SSRI Sexual Dysfunction. I was on Paxil for two years and didn't really experience much in the way of sexual side effects while on it other than retarded ejaculation which isn't so bad. A lot of people have it worse. However, about 3 months after discontinuing I got the same symptoms you have and had all the blood work and MRIs done only to find nothing. I almost lost hope and then decided to try taking Paxil again and see if it had anything to do with it.  At first nothing, but after about two weeks, I started seeing results. Morning wood is back, sensation is returning, flaccid size is better, libido is back, etc. I feel like after 3 weeks on Paxil I will be back to my old self again. SSRIs can alter gene expression. We don't even begin to fully understand the range of effects drugs of this nature can have on the human body.  They may relieve depression, but they alter lots of other things that don't need messing with. Though most people are only hurt sexually by being on SSRIs, it seems that my body/pituitary, for whatever reason, has become dependent on Paxil in order to function properly. I don't know if it would have ever gotten better on its own, but it's possible that I'll have to be on Paxil the rest of my life to properly function sexually.
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Thanks for the support LT, some day's are certainly allot better than others. I guess i just need to hold on hope because i know this a treatable condition but result's don't happen over night. I did manage to have some great sex today with my girl which was good and upped my mood a bit (and her's). Erections aren't as full anymore and i always 'want' to get soft half way through. I am going to be modifying my HRT very soon and hoping for better results with Test E + HCG bi-weekly. The key is NOT high total t but good ratio between hormones, this is what effects the whole system.

Your E2 isn't high but the ideal range is 17-25 for a normal male. Did you get an SHBG check? With the exception of penis shrinakge you aren't showing any other symptoms (except libido/penis issues) of T definicey, so that's a good thing. Your total t also seem's very high which could cause problems (strange but true in this case). Let me explain:

If you have very very low SHBG due to whatever reason, this results in a high FREE estrogen level (can be tested with saliva test). The more testosterone secreted the lower SHBG would go, the higher free E2 went. This high free E2 displaced the Free Tetosterone binding to SHBG. Therefore even though I could have high total test levels, Free test was very low. This would explain the small flaccid size yet high total testosterone. This could cause penile sensativiy issues, ED and various other problems.

Because you are suffering from testicular dysfunction it's possible your testicles are secreting at abnormal peaks/valleys and causing 'spikes' in your steriod secretion. This could be due to collapising sperm production cells/tissue. Difficult to say without having an ultrasound done.

Are your testicles of normal adult size? Do they fluctate allot in size throughout the day? Have you noticed anything unusual with regards to temperature control?
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Another strange symptom I have found is my sperm has become almost acidic in "taste" at times that again makes me focus on the prostate as well as my hormones. I have been reading up that testosterone is converted into DHT by the enzyme 5-alpha reductase and an overactive DHT can cause prostate disease such as it enlarging as you get older. I know myself and others who have posted are relatively young but it may be something to keep in mind, I don't know. I have also read  Quercetin which is a plant-pigment flavonoid  can aid prostate and urinary infections. I would really have to fight through my own hypochondriac reputation with my GP to explain that and why its worrying me. I got some ZMA today while I am still waiting for a better product to be shipped to me, so it will hopefully provide me with some hormonal relief

Its good you got some sex out your system megazoid! I have been avoiding it with my ex girlfriend now as much as possible that can be depressing when I have to think of taking blue pills to preserve my male "ego" whatever that is now.

I am waiting on my saliva test kit to start with so I have something to back me up explaing this to the GP. It may give me some indicator of my estrogen/T levels. I understand what you are saying about high E2, maybe I could consider adding DIM after I know more to lower this and free up testosterone. Armidex  seems a little expensive are there any good alternative  DIM products?  
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megazoid thank you for your help...i think that it is a great thing how everyone is here supporting each other. i see where suicide almost seems good in some of our cases, but please lets hold on to hope and God and know that eventually everything will get better! i'm going to get my testosterone levels checked
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Guys, such a relief to hear from people with similar problems to mine.  Below is a rambling summary of what I've been experiencing and how it has affected my life.

I've been thinking for some time of starting a website/blog (as a technophobe I dont realy know what a blog is but it seems popular!) where people can discuss this problem, identify similar factors and what, if anything, helps.

Cheers



Over the past 10 years or so I have noticed that my penis has been shrinking, or more specifically, getting thinner.  This has caused me a great deal of concern and have spent two spells on anti-depressants, which I can attribute to how this problem has affected me.  It has caused me many a sleepless night, led to panic attacks

I have sought out the advice of several doctors and urologists during this time how seem either disinterested, disbelieving or unable to explain what
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Yossarian, I have the exact same problem you have and it's ruining my life. I thought it might have something to do with me being on Paxil before, so I tried taking it again.  After about a week, I saw improvement and thought I had finally found the cure. However, it appears it had just gotten better for unknown reasons that had nothing to do with Paxil.  It's now back to being shriveled and lifeless despite still being on Paxil. I have seen two urologists and an internal medicine doctor and none of them have been able to help me. I have had tons of blood work done and everything comes back normal. I'm seriously starting to think we have a new and unknown condition and that's why we are being told such nonsense as our problem is psychological. I used to drink and smoke weed occasionally, but don't anymore because of this.  Like you said, drugs exacerbate the shrinking. I too have experienced the itching sensation. I do have HPV (tho no warts). Not sure if there's a possible connection there. Most guys are asymptomatic.
Since my penis has shrunk, I have become incredibly insecure and even suicidal. My social life has gone to ****. I used to have a great sex life and now have none. I'm holding on for my family and friends in hopes that this can be cured.  
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Very intresting post.

It's important to remember that it IS hormones that control both flaccid, retracted, temputure control, blood flow and erection quality/capability. Hormones such as DHT/E2 control how 'elastic' the penile tissue is and how much blood flow s both flaccid and erect.

Urologists, GP's, Doctors and general medical staff are useless for dealing with this kind of issue. Urologist don't speak in this language (hormones) and you will only come out less satisfied than you went in.

I believe you when you tell me this isn't in your head, but urologists won't.  

You never mentioned anything about height, weight, build or if you are showing any signs of high estridol (check my above posts) or low testosterone. Have you had any hormone blood test's done? I have listed the required tests above.

How would you rate your libido/erection quality? Have you lost any erect size?
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I generally get more morning erections when I've not masturbated for a few days.  yeah, pretty firm although i would say not quite as thick as when I beat off.

Can I just ask what your background is, what your website is and for anywhere I might be able to read up more about these hormonal factors?

Also, how would I get these tests done?  Are they available on the NHS in the UK or would I need to get it done privately?
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I've had my hormone level checked and doctors say everything is okay.

As for the other info I'm 5'11, 182lbs and 27 years old.

I can still get a decent hard on and the shrinking isn't as pronounced when erect although it's definitely different to how it was 10 years ago and I would say I'd lost about 2cm in girth.  It seems like I may be losing some length now as well, which is an unwelcome development.

Dude, I too have had suicidal thoughts about this but it isn't until you hear someone else say it that you realise how disproportionate a response it would be.

Whatever happens we will still enjoy a far higher quality of life than someone confined to a wheelchair say and together we can only get stronger.

That's if we let this thing, whatever it is, beat us.  Coming onto this site and hearing what people with similar problems have to say has given me renewed determination to find out what this thing is and beat the f*****.  Finally I can say "it's not just me, it's not all in my head".  You dont know how good that feels.  I was literally running home after work tonight to get online and see what had been added.

I too think this may be a new/undiagnosed condition which may have been brought about by environmental factors.  It may also be something which people have suffered from for years but were too embarrassed to seek help about.  It's only recently that guys have started speaking openly about their bodies, particulalrly their penises, and the anonymity offered by the Internet is a great thing sometimes.  Also, how many guys do you think might have visited their GP only to be told exactly the same as we heard- that the doctor knew of no such condition existing.

Whatever's going on let's get militant about it.  Let's get an online presence where others who may be suffering from the same affliction can turn.  Let's compare notes, give each other support and force medical authorities to take us seriously.  Let's not give up.

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Thanks for the reply, glad we can be of some support. It is nice to hear of people in a similar situation and i will definitelly be adding a section to my website for others to chat in the forum about this.

This isn't an "unknown illness" or mysterious disease, the problem is hormonally related without question. You are somewhat right then in what you are saying about enviromental changes and such causing this as most of our foods have at some stage been modified by hormones to make cow's fat, dairy products, chinese food with soy, etc.  The power of hormones is increadable and effects on every single cell, neurotransmitter in our body is equally powerful. Within a matter of day's or reducing or removing a hormone the effects set in.

Hormones effect everything from flaccid penis size, erection quality, sensation, penile fullness, etc. Even if a doctor tell's you everything is "normal" this isn't enough information to go with. Doctor's couldn't care less about you or your condition, they are doing a job like everyone else and just want to get through the day. If you fall between a range of 9-30 (for example) for total testosterone your considered normal, even though you are 1 point above the lowest range. Now a normal 70 year old man has a higher level than that (roughly 14.8nmol!).

A good example was a thread i found on a body building/testosterone forum where a guy on HRT (not a roid cycle) was noticing flaccid and erect 'gains' while on 150mg depo t a week for his HRT routine. This show's the true power of testosterone and the balance between T, Estridol and DHT.

You need to get the following blood work done to get a better picture of what's going on:

Total Testosterone
Free (or bioavailable) testosterone
LH
FSH
SHBG
DHT
E2
Prolactin
Total Estrogens

Once you have these, post up the results and we can take a look.

Do you regulary get morning erections and how powerful are they? Do you get spontainous erections allot?
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Difficult to say without blood work.

I spent about a year studying, speaking with others, spending time on boards, etc gaining knowledge.

My website isn't live at present but will be soon. I will have allot of information on the above subjects and hormonally related issues.

Your GP probably won't run the tests without a more valid reason. You could say you are experiening ED or low libido and ask for them but he will probably just run the bare minimum. I in the UK also and not getting any help from the NHS.

Do a search for anti-aging clinics in the UK (i can't post links or they will get deleted i think). Either this or a good urologist who is willing to run the tests privatively.

Have you ever had testicular tramua (i.e. a hard kick), hernia or varicocele or any kind of infection? Are your testicles normal size (1.5/2inches in length)?

How would you rate your general health and libido? Do you think you are suffering from any other symtoms related to low testosterone?

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I can understand how bad this can be and hope we can come through it in our own individual cases. Some days I find it really hard to make any sense of life and if I can go on living like this. I now feel like I am existing rather than living to be honest.

I have been taking ZMA before bed each night and have felt a little bit of an improvement with my flaccid size because I am not completely "shrivelling off" but still don't feel right. I have no morning wood etc and still generally feel small and vacant down there. Most of the time I seem to find myself rubbing my penis just to remind myself something is there. The insecurity and self doubt is almost unbearable

I have got to see my GP about this next week, don't know where to start. I also have a DIM product here that says it promotes the "good estrogens" and inhibits the bad.

I really want my life back and hopefully I will get the medical help I need along the way




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I say this with no pleasure but it is good to deal with this issue alongside others. To be honest, i have made a good amount of progress on TRT. I will be moving to test cyp injections starting from next monday and i am feeling confident about seeing great improvements and getting my sex life back.

It does sometimes feel like NOTHING Is there, this happens rare with me now though. Without sounding crude, i have always been pretty decent in the penis department but the shrinkage can really effect your confidence allot. It does destroy your life, i do understand what you guy's are dealing with. The only difference for me was the fact i had a ton load of other symptoms alongside this such as joint pain, brain fog, low libido, dry skin, etc. All hormonally linked.

We all need to be strong and get through this. I say with no word of a lie that this IS treatable and full quality erections WILL come back. I have a beautiful girlfriend so i cannot allow this to destroy my relationship or sex life. It's that simple.

For me this is going to require an injection weekly (or bi-weekly), but this is really nothing when you think about it. My testicles don't work right so this is an easy thing to accept. The health benefits and normal libido/erections are the biggest bonus.

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What was that guy taking 150mg a week of that caused him gains? Thats incredible that testosterone would do that. Hopefully i will know more about getting my own hormones checked next week
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"Have you ever had testicular tramua (i.e. a hard kick), hernia or varicocele or any kind of infection? Are your testicles normal size (1.5/2inches in length)?

How would you rate your general health and libido? Do you think you are suffering from any other symtoms related to low testosterone?"

A few kicks in the knackers playing football but nothing out of the usual I would say.  I do have a few cysts in the chord but they're relatively small and have never caused any problems.

General health isn't too bad and I'm as horny as they come!  


Someone furhter up the board suggested this might be something to do with the prostate.  I've often wondered this as old men can hold their water far better than I can.  I try to drink 2-3 litres of water a day at work but this has me running off for a pee every half hour or so.


Can i just say to everyone panicking about this not to do anything too hasty.  I've been forced to deal with this for over a decade now and have been through some unbelievable lows (turning up at my local hospital A&E department at 2am convinced I would be a eunuch in the morning for example) but at much as I f****** hate whatever this is I have to say that things have not got as bad as I had feared they would yet.  


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The following is an email I sent to the SDA and its the first I have heard of a "Endocrinologist" but they are supposed to specialise in all things hormones by the looks of things

My email:

Hi, I am 22 and have not felt right for some time now. I am almost "lifeless" down below like nothing is there and completely different to how I was. I almost feel like my hormones have been taken from me, if that sounds strange. I really don't know what has happened to me and am finding it hard to deal with life at the moment because of this. This obviously has me very confused and after reading through your website I think I may have developed a hormonal imbalance for whatever reason. I would like to know more about this as you say it is only in 3% of cases and I don't have much information on this condition and medical treatment options in general. Please help!

Reply:

There are few illnesses that can cause hormone imbalances- see hypogonadism

Nevertheless it is relatively easy to check you have an hormonal problem
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Hey Yosarian sorry to hear your story,the penis shrinkage must be horrendous.I heard you earlier mention actionlove and the LoveDoctor.I'm familiar with that site and its theories.which are all based on chinese medicine.The Doctor is called Dr Linn and he has his own website too,selling Herb packages for extortionate prices.I have found his products slowly effective,and I mean slow,nowhere near the quickness of healing that his carefully selected testimonials would have you believe.For your case he would probably tell you that you have over masturbated and drained out neurotransmitters and hormones,needed for a healthy penis.And that once these things are bolstered,that your erection will revert back to its normal size.
    I myself am I'n a critical situation,all from over masturbation.Im able to achieve an erection only mometarily ,I have premature ejaculate immediately,leak semen in urine etc etc.My penis is completely lifeless,and feels sticky.I'm waiting for the day when it shrinks.Like your story about rushing to an A&E,I contemplated heading straight to the psychiatric Hospital and requesting to morphined for just about ever.
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I wouldn't believe a word the guy says.  Dont get a complex about what he told you - it's more than likely nothing to do with over-masturbation.
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Megazoid you were right about being mistreated on this subject. The doctor was ok but I felt I was battling through a hypochondriac reputation when I mentioned hormones and agreed I may be having obsessive thoughts but am not dillusional. I was told how rare hormonal imbalances are and it is near impossible  but to show me everything is ok and it is more likely psychological, which I know it isn't he agreed on getting my Testosterone level checked. I am also getting a thyroid check for some reason in my blood test.

I don't know where to go from here or what results to expect even though I know I am not right if I get a "normal" T level. Could you name any anti ageing clinics etc that are here and how you can get anyone to listen that you need a full blood hormone workout and treatment for this because I can't imagine self medicating forever not really knowing the exact problems. I just don't want to give up hope
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Hello everyone.

I am a 35 year old male with very similar circumstances myself. I'll give a short overview of my past situation.

I am a person extremely sensitive to all medications. When my doctor told me he suspected I had low T, he prescribed Testim to me and I took it without question immediately. The very morning I took it, I got all the following symptoms:
Severe Depression
Trembling/Shaking
Panic Attacks/Heart Pounding
Loss of Concentration
Insomnia
Hot Flashes
Lethargy
Suicidal thoughts

Before that, the only and I mean ONLY symptom I had was 50% erection quality. Then...all of those also.

I suspect that it interrupted my HPTA, due to the fact that I am so sensitive to meds. Does this sound possible? I mean can a 4 day stint of Testosterone disrupt the HPTA considering the subject may be very sensitive to it? Since that time, every doctor in the world says I have depression, but prior to that ( Im 35) I never in my life had any form of depression whatsoever. In fact, I've been the happiest person most of my contacts know, and Now I'm the most depressed. I am desperate to reverse what I know that medicine interrupted.

Please give any advice. Thanks.

P.S. I am considering ordering Clomid if I can't get any doctor to prescribe it to me. I don't know how to get it without a prescription, but I'm really at my ropes end with antidepressants...that's all they will prescribe me. I was on TRT for a short term...shots, then gels... I did not have good results, either was a great day or a terrible day. Now I am on nothing for two weeks and feel like ****, but at least its a consistent apathetic low and not rock bottom like some days on TRT.

The last diagnosis I got was secondary hypogonadism, but the doctor did no tests to make sure it was secondary and not primary.

On 11/29/06 I had test results like this:

LH 3.9
FSH 2.0
Testosterone 305

Then 10/18/06

LH 3.0
FSH 1.4
Testosterone 247

These numbers suggest I am secondary as they also did an MRI which resulted in a 'pituitary microadenoma' which the doctor said was probably there since birth.

If that is the case, I feel I have been low testosterone all my life. Higher voice, scarce body hair, larger breasts and abdominal fat most my life. If I were already bordering a fragile HPTA succeptable to High Estrogen, then the initial dose of Testim may have been highly converted to E2 and interrupted it.

I have found a site on yahoo called hypogonadism2 that has some files and has lots of useful information as well. I'm interested in trying to restart my HPTA and at least see how I react to Nolvadex and/or Clomid. Any thoughts?  

Chris
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I know exactly what you mean mate.  Every doctor seems to cloud over and think "hypochondriac" as soon as you broach this subject with them.

Whilst I know this is undoubtedly happening (tape measure doesn't lie) the reception I've had from medical professionals has lead me to question whether its a psychological problem that's causing the problems.

I really want to establish a website dedicated to this problem but, having looked into the situation have decided that I know nowhere near enough about computers to be able to do it.

Any computer whizz kids out there?  I have some good ideas about what the site could feature and can provide text but when it comes to building a webpage I'm afraid there's no chance I could manage it.

We have to push things to find others out there who might've suffered/might still be suffering, how they cope dand to find out if anything worked for them.  Keep fighting it and we'll not lose hope.
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I can tell you that trauma to the testicles could cause secondary hypogonadism. When you go to the doctor, tell him about your symptoms and your girlfriend kicking you in the testicles. He will need to check your Free Total and % free to Total Testosterone at least to see where you are at. For your age, you should be around the 600ish range in my opinion. I am 35 and at about 386 without treatment and this is really considered low normal, but we all know is low. If the tests come back good, then consider that it may be psychological.

God Bless,
Chris
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Hi Chris, thanks for the yahoo group dealing with this it looks a very good source of information. While I did a search I also came across bodybuilding[dot]com and on the forums there they have a Hormone Replacement Therapy section discussing much of the above with young and old alike needing TRT.

Yossarian I agree more people need to know about this because of the complex and negative image it can give you, not to mention the sense of unwanted mystery. I don't know how much a .com address is but there are sites such as cjb[dot]net that will let you let you register a name for free if you wish. You may have to ask around when it comes to hosting the site though because I don't know to much.

But a programme called Dreamweaver may help you with designing the site. Its mainly getting the information across and breaking it down for everyone to digest that is most important.
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I've been experiencing this kind of thing lately. At first I thought it was because of masturbating compulsivley but have started to realize that at the base of my penis it almost seems lifeless and its rare to get an erection from visual stimuli and when I do it isn't strong at all. If I go for a couple days without masturbating I can make myself get a strong erection but not nearly as easily as I used to be able to and it doesn't usually last long. I haven't had sex in a year allthough I have had offers that I always turn down now because of obvious problems.

My big problem is that I find myself caught between a rock and a hard place. I am only 21 years old and just got my first job that offers health insurance, the health insurance doesn't kick in untill June 1st and I feel that I need to act on this as soon as possible and feel like if I sit around and wait for 2 and a half months things can only get worse. Not to mention the fact that even if I did have the insurance right now I don't know that I would even have the courage to talk to a doctor about this problem because it would be embarrasing.

I don't know if this is a psychological problem or if it is a physical problem. But reading some of your guys' stories it seems simmilar. I do still have all sensation down there its just that an erection is very hard to achieve and if I even try to have sex with a woman it is harder to achieve an erection because of embarasment.

Another thing that is worth mentioning is the fact that I was recently in a relationship with a woman who was somewhat abusive in nature. I probaly got kicked in the balls by her once a day if I was lucky, most the time it was more than once a day.

Any advice you guys can give me would be appreciated. I feel like my life is on this big stand by because of this. I feel like if this problem is permenant then I wont be able to have a wife because no woman will want to stick around and then obviously wont be able to have children and I'll be alone and that is one thing that I wont be able to handle.
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Agree 100%.  I've posted above about all the factors which I have thought could be contributory.

As far as masturbation goes I've always felt I gripped too hard - I often have problem ejaculating when I'm with a woman because it doesnt feel nearly so tight.

As far as the psychological factors goes I've always felt insecure because my penis is quite small flaccid, even though it is of average size when erect.

When I thought about creating a website I had in mind a survey which would ask a number of questions to try and determine any common factors.
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Could you by chance post a link for this avena sativa that your refering to. I tried to do a wikipedia search on it and didn't really find anything on supplements that you can buy.

Also, I know its becoming more and more well known but Green Tea is amazing for ridding your body of basically everything toxic and could be a remedy to help stop this.
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This will be my second last post. I have made the decision to go ahead with my original suicide plan this weekend. I have tried everything and now i have complete ED, i've been on all forms of TRT and literally NOTHING has worked. I have lost my friends, girlfriend, confidence and will to live due to this hormone definiency. I stayed fighting for 9 months and i simply cannot take it any longer, i literally see no point in living anymore. It's time for me to go and hopefully end up in a better place and maybe somewhere where i can be happy. This illness has destroyed me and my body.

This is the first time i will not be talked out of this choice, i am sure many here understand the severity of this condition and how mentally effecting and emotionally effecting this can be. I told myself back on xmas day that if i was no further forward by feburary i would kill myself. I have tried once but got caught at last minute, so that screwed that plan up.

I will miss my family and friend's very much, but i will leave a note in the hope they understand my decision. My closest friend is aware of what i have been going through, so i hope he can explain this to my parents and other friend's.

Before i go i will answer every single person's question on this thread and give the fullest reply's i possibily can. I will also setup a forum/small website and hand over the moderation right's before i leave. So no need to worry about the complexity of setting up a website, i am capable of doing this myself.

I hope i have at least offered a bit of help and support to the few people here, no matter how much i think about this, i won't be changing my mind.

I hope one day you guy's figure out a suitable way of treating this, i have tried everything and failed, i was never meant to fix this.
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I have always thought that the last thing that people who are going to commit suicide do is tell others about it.  I sincerely hope I am right.

DO NOT do anything rash - I have been living with a shrinking penis for 10 years.  Yes, i've been low, really f***** low so I know how this affects your mind but please, do not top yourself.

You say you hope your friends and family will understand but that doesn't mean it won't destroy their lives.

You say you weren't meant to beat this - how do you know?  Why not keep fighting, see other doctors, set up the website an help others?

We can get throught his together.

Put things in perspective (i know its hard in your current state of mind) a guy who is confined to a wheelchair has far less chance than you of getting action than you and he has a helluva lot more to deal with besides.

Please man, think about what you are saying/planning.
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Megazoid,

I just came to this forum two days ago. A google search led me here and to your posts. Reading your comments and insight into this horrible syndrome, as best I can call it, is giving me new hope. Since August of 2005, I have been like this, which I believe is aquired secondary hypogonadism. The first week alone, they had to take me to the ER for suicide attempt. I have a brother in law who is a cop and I was going to kill myself with his gun. I know the despair and darkness that the condition puts on you. I also could not sleep a wink and this made it even worse. It is like your mind is in Hell. But...

With medication and a little counseling, I slowly got out of that, but not the ED, depression, lethargy, confusion, irregular heartbeat, insomnia, no motivation....all of it, man. I still have it. I went through a few months of trying TRT and had super peaks and valleys and now am on nothing with the hope I can restart my HPTA this week. If my doctor doesn't prescribe it, I am buying it online overseas. I also feel I am at the end of my rope, but I pray everyday for strength from God. I feel that I should have been dead almost two years ago now and that everyday is a blessing. I know this sounds cliche, but it is true. You have good and bad days, I can tell from your posts, as do I. There is always hope, there are always advances. Help me and these people here find those things and keep fighting. I have a wife and two kids to live for, but even if I didn't I have myself to live for. I'm sure you have a mental image of your life when you are healthy and well. Focus on that image and live to make it happen. This is what I have to do every day as I cry taking my shower with the mental depression and fog in my mind. But, I'm going to try everything there is under the sun...I even tried , and am still trying Sungazing ( suppposedly strengthens the pituitary ) And when all of them fail...I am going to try again.

You owe noone here nothing, but yourself. Your comments have helped people without hope. That is an honorable purpose. Stay and keep the work going. I'll pray for you. Pray for me.

God Bless,
Chris
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Alright, I know there has been some talk of hopelessness and suicide on this forum but just not even 2 days ago I fealt completley alone like I was the only person in the world who is like this. For all we know this could be mostly psychological. I don't think suicide is ever something that should be considered because you never know what you will miss out on.

Anyways, I think that it would be a good idea for us all to try to put this into a better perspective. What I mean by that is we could discuss certain evets etc that might have led up to this. For example, I have always fealt inferior to women since I got dumped out of my relationship 2 years back....if everyone in here has had some sort of traumatic experience like that then that would suggest that it might be psychological.

Another possibility is masturbation/ejaculation frequency. Perhaps there is a link between how much we ejaculate and this condition.

Perhaps the manner in how we masturbate effects us. What I mean by this is that to me I have always for some reason stretched out my legs really hard to intensify everything when I would masturbate...I don't know why it made things more intense but it just did. This started causing lower back pains for me, perhaps thats what is causing the problem.

I know that I have heard stories of men at war losing their penis and it was later saved, put on ice and surgically put back on and eventually it worked just fine...come on, if that kind of procedure can be a success then our condition is next to nothing. It's just a matter of finding a doctor who actually knows what hes talking about and actually gives a ****.

If indeed it is psychological, has anyone in here considered hypnosis? I don't normally like to bring up hokus pokus stuff but I know that hypnosis has gotten people to lose large ammounts of weight, quit smoking and get over any other imaginable psychological problem.
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Well there already is 2 things we have in common, we masturbate in abnormal ways and we both have psychological problems. Perhaps some of us can only get hard when we jerk it (for lack of a better term) because we are so compulsive about masturbating. Think about it, if we're always fantasizing and masturbating then what good will visual stimulation do us? I am only 21 years old and have had this problem for a couple months now and this is the last thing in the world I want to have to worry about.

If anyone knows of any good doctors that actually knows what the hell their talking about then let me know. Im not one to give up I'll travel to the end of the world to see a doctor that can fix this.
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Please hang in there, before I found this place and your posts I had almost lost hope and thought that was it. I have had many sleepless nights and now realise there may be many of us with hormone troubles, young and old alike.

Wikipedia do a good section on Oat (Avena Sativa) in general and I would recommend taking it to boost your mood and labido while coping with this. It is one of the few if only "aphrodisiac type" suppliments registered with the FDA as a homeopathic drug under the name Vigorex Forte. I only had a brief experimentation with this because I was looking for any boost I could get and thought I was taking some herbal viagra at the time it was so effective and only took it when needed. I now know better and it is said the reason it works on labido so good is because it works by freeing up bound testosterone that gets stuck to various compounds of the body so you benefit from the Free Testosterone in the blood like you say that is very important for us all to function as we should. I found when taking this nearly all the symptoms of Low T eased off almost completely. I don't know how this effects hormone levels in the long term but it appears one of the safest suppliments out there to help people with symptoms of low T, ED etc while dealing with the stress of day to day life

I look forward to the website! Please try to keep positive
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Many companys are selling the avena sativa extract including Action Labs. They sell a very potent form of it. I would recommend getting Vigorex Forte because it is an approved homeopathic product that doesn't contain any substance that is harmful to ingest. Obviously avena sativa is still the active ingredient in this though.

Try vigorex4men[dot]com or just do a google search and you will see more than the one website


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http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html - I would suggest reading through all of that to see what you need to check for, it is some reading and covers literally everything. Here are a few extracts

"Without adequate levels of free testosterone, the quality of a man's sex life is adversely affected and the genitals atrophy. When free testosterone is restored, positive changes can be expected in the structure and function of the sex organs. (It should be noted that sexual dysfunction can be caused by other factors unrelated to hormone imbalance. An example of such a factor is arteriosclerotic blockage of the penile arteries."

"Total testosterone is often measured instead of free testosterone, the bioavailable form. Some studies do not last long enough to show improvement. For instance, it may take six months to a year before the genital tissue fully recovers from atrophy caused by testosterone deficiency, and potency is restored.
Physicians urgently need to be educated about the benefits of testosterone and the delicate balance between androgens (testosterone) and estrogens. Each individual has his or her own pattern of hormone balance; this indicates that hormone replacement should be individualized and carefully monitored."

"Because of the highly controversial nature of this article, Life Extension has taken the unprecedented step of publishing more than 180 pages of scientific abstracts on our website that are numerically matched to the statements made in this article. This may be the first time for such a massive undertaking, and it reflects the urgent need to convey this information to skeptical physicians so that they will prescribe tes-tosterone and aromatase-inhibiting drugs to individuals whose blood tests indicate a need for these therapies."

After all the info I have now read I would recommend doubling DIM intake to combat excess estrogen 400mg  and keep with the zinc before bed and consume plenty of Vitamin E because this is flexible for you to consume at a high dose to appreciate all of its effects. I also read in that article that Nettle reduces SHBG's binding of free testosterone . Other things that may help are a flavonoid called chrysin (1000mg) along with piperine (10mg) that enables chrysin to be absorbed into the blood. Chrysin is a mild aromatase inhibitor. Also your 5 a day and green tea plus water can only help I would assume in keeping excess estrogen in check. I suggested Avena Sativa as a complimentary suppliment but Muira Puama is mentioned  in that article for possibly freeing testosterone and/or suppressing excess estrogen. I would say use whatever works for you

More interesting reading here - http://www.cabecahealth.com/PDF%20files/NutrInfluencesEstrogen.pdf   Check out the table detailing the effects of nutrition on estrogens on page 4
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Dr. Megazoid:

You must be a Urologist or a very well informed patient !  Thanks for your messages.  I have a question for you.

I saw many advertisements on late night TV to " enlarge your penis ".  Do you know if any of them work, or are they just scams ?

Thanks
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I know you meant that question for megazoid but the products you hear about on tv are herbal supplements. Different peoples bodies react differently to herbs. So these products could possibly work for you and not work for me or vice versa. Allthough these products can work, the success of them are highly exagurated and do not typically produce as massive of results.
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