Shrinking Penis

I have posted here before, but I feel that I must be persistent.  I am 29 years old, and have been impotent for about 2 years now.  2 years ago, I was absolutely fine.  I could have sex as many times as I wanted to.  3 times a night would be no problem.  I woke up with erections, and if I didn't have sex I would masturbate in the morning and before I went to bed.  

It is a different story now however.  No morning wood.  No libido.  If I am able to get an erection it doesn't last long.  Visual stimuli has no effect, I have to use my hand and that doesn't work very well.  When flacid, my penis is smaller now.  The skin feels different--less sensitive.  I see veins where I couldn't see any before.  When I walk around, it feels like I don't even have a penis anymore.  It feels like nothing is there.  As a result of this I have lost my girlfriend, my confidence in life, and I think I am losing my mind.  Oral drugs don't help.  

I've been to urologists at an ivy leage teaching hospital. He basically said 'that's life' and showed me penis pumps.  I really don't know why I am typing this message, as I don't think there is anything anyone can really do.  I am beyond the point of losing hope.  I quite honestly do not want to live like this anymore.  

My only questions are:
a.  Why & how did this happen?
b.  Is there any way to fix it?

If you know a doctor, please forward this to him/her because I really need help.  Thank you.

[Trialanderror]

Until you find a doctor who will give you better advice, I can only say that I know of two men age 40 and 60 with similar symptoms. Both of them drink quite a lot of alcohol daily and one of them has also consumed tons of beef throughout life in an area where cows are still raised with estrogen. He also developed prostate problems. What I`m getting at is that you might have too much estrogen in your system or maybe it is a side effect of any medication. And, oh yes, anti-depressants will do that to you too. I hear your despair and you`re too young to beat yourself up about this for the rest of your life. Find a different doctor.

[Anclerson]

Pmaule,
I have the exact same condition that you have. Until now I thought I might be the only person with this problem because I couldn't find information diagnosing my symptoms. I'm 21 and about 3 months ago I noticed the change. Probably was happening gradually over a few weeks until I finally noticed. Like you, I no longer have morning wood. I have some libido, but not nearly as much as before the problem. When flaccid I'm much smaller now and I'm literally going crazy because it feels like I don't have anything down there. I am able to get an erection, but not nearly as easily as before. Also, they don't last very long and aren't as impressive. Measuring, I've only lost .25 inch in length but an entire 1.5 inches in girth when arroused! (I used to be pretty well endowed) I also can't get them from visual stimuli anymore. I've had blood testing done and nothing has indicated that I should have any problems. I am perplexed as to what caused/is causing this and am desperate for a solution. I have to literally try everyday to prevent it from making me go insane. I'm in college and I don't drink or go out much anymore because I feel so inadequate, and obviously my sex life is a joke now. I am scheduled to see a urologist in 3 weeks and am trying to stay optimist. I tried Viagra and it helped some, but is way too expensive to take everyday.  Not to mention that I think it is a little ridiculous for a healthy 21 year old to have to take it to have a functional penis. I am physically fit and exercise daily (have to in order to keep from getting anymore depressed about it). I have no idea what has caused this problem, but it needs to be fixed. I don't believe in suicide, but I doubt I can handle life much longer if this doesn't get fixed. I just can't enjoy things anymore. Please let me know if you find out any information on what's causing our condition, and I will gladly do the same. Good luck.

[santiago]

Hey man, just read your post.  I know this seems like more than you can handle right now but have faith that everything is going to be ok.  It's such a damning thing to happen because it's so mysterious.  Just try to relax because the more worked up you get about it, the potency you do have will be diminished by the stress you're putting on yourself.  I've been dealing with some of the symptoms you've described for about 6 months.  I'm 26 and thank God above that I have a woman that loves me for me.  One day at a time.  Don't think about the past or the future.  Live for today.

[Anclerson]

Thanks for the support man. I'm learning to cope with it better, I just don't want to underscore how paniced I feel. It would probably be easier to deal with if had a girlfriend for support that didn't feel any differently towards me because of my problem. Too bad I didn't see this coming or I'm sure I would have been a little more eager to find one. You said you've had this problem for six months. Any ideas as to what is causing it or how to fix it? Have/are you seeking any treatment? I just think it would be alot easier to handle if I knew it could be treated and fixed.

[santiago]

I know, if we could just know what spawned it on it might give us a little bit more piece of mind.  Mine happened when I was in Asia.  My penis just became very itchy and i put some cream on it.  Next thing I knew it was pretty lifeless with hardly any feeling of blood in the head.  I've had all the bloodtests and appointments with hotshot urologists.  I'm seeing one right now that is going to  do the Duplex ultrasound on me.  They think it's my prostate that's causing the mayhem.  I just want an MRI of my prostate and the duplex.  I know it seems like you can read, read, read and schedule all the appointments but u never come to a knowledge of anything.  I'm just glad it works.  It's not like it used to be but it works.  It has restored a little bit since asia.  It's not as rubbery and  unresponsive.  I've got to stay positive.  What's so bothersome is even flaccid it doesn't feel right.  I used to be able to flex that PC muscle and do penis "push ups".  Now it's just like the PC muscle is atrophied.  Maybe cuz of stress.  I don't know.  Just stay positive man.

[Anclerson]

Alright man. Not that I want anyone else to have to deal with this, but it does make me feel better that I'm not the only one that has had to suffer from this bizarre condition. Well good luck with your next appointment. Hope it works out. Let me know if they figure out what's going on.

[megazoid]

OK Guy's, i found this thread by accident and i thought it would be important to reply. First off i want everyone to relax and stay calm and i don't want anyone to think about suicide, i suffered the exact same as you guy's did but no one to give me any kind of answers (i am only 24 myself). I have the answers you guy's need, so please let me explain my own story first.

When i was born, i was a healthy, young baby boy. However it wasn't noticed that i had an undescended testicle (right testicle) until i was 2 year's old. The testicle was brought down but this in turn caused the testicle to remain small and atrophied (dysfunctional). My left testicle took over throughout puberty and became large and fully functional. I went through puberty as normal but my left testicle gained a huge size (2/3 inches) to compensate for the other 'lost' testicle.

6 months ago i got an injury to my left testicle which caused a varicocele to form (enlargement/swelling of the veins), this in turn causes blood pooling issues int he testicle and over-heating to occur (along with abnormal hormonal parameters). Over a course of 3 months my testicle atrophied and my sperm count dropped. During this time i just didn't "feel right" (so to speak) and wasn't getting morning erections or having a libido. I had joint and muscle pains and all manner of skin changes occured (more so on my penis like you guy's - skin thinning, maybe a little dry at times). What had happened was a hormonal inbalance had set in and caused low testosterone (hypogonadism). Like you guy's my penis shrunk up really bad and my testicles were always very tight and didn't hang as normal.

Flaccid penis size is controlled by the free testosterone levels available in the blood. DHT (A hormone that gives us "all things male") has a large degree of control over the penilie tissues (the "elasticness" of them for example). The Testosterone to estrogen ratio controls how "hard" your erections get and if this got knocked out (due to lack of testosterone for example) then getting erections will be tough and your flaccid penis will hang alot smaller and lifeless at times.

Morning wood is an indication of the correct ratio of Testosterone to Estrogen (E2). Lack of morning wood in almost all cases means either excess estrogen or low testosterone.

Imagine the flaccid penis like a balloon. When there isn't enough testosterone in the blood to support it "shrinks" up. You guy's need to be aware that unless you live with this for like 4/5 year's the penis dosen't "actually" shrink and lose tissue (it's already developed muscular tissue) but just shrinks up into itself.

You WILL get your penis size and erection ability back when you get your hormones in order.

So how did you develop this condition? Well there are 3 forms. Primary Hypogonadism which means testicular dysfunction (caused by tramua to the testicles - hernia, varicocele, mumps, hard kick, etc) and secondary which indicates a problem with your piturity gland not sending out enough messages to keep your testosterone level high. Central Hypogonadism is a problem with both the piturity gland and the testicles (this is rare).

Secondary hypogonadism can indicate a piturity tumour or be brought on from head tramua. An MRI is needed and frequent blood work to elevate (generally secondary will be indicated by low LH/FSH in the 1/2 range).

A normal testosterone level of 23nmol (or more) is required for sperm production and normal male functioning, anything lower (even if your doctor "claims" you are normal) isn't.

Low testosterone can lead to high estrogen which in turn can cause prostate rated problems (prostitis for example).

If you are overweight or have stomach fat you most likely have higher levels of estrogen which again cause erection problems and smaller flaccid penis size.

I will monitor this thread and will answer any questions you guy's have.

[Anclerson]

Thank you so much man. I can't tell you how much better I feel. The urologist I saw a month ago gave me Androgel 5mg packets to use once a day bc my T-level was only 356. Low-Normal range but still low for a 21 year old right? My mood has improved substantially since (I don't get depressed/irritable much anymore). However, my penis is still small flaccid, my libido is still low, no morning wood, etc. (all the above symptoms are still occuring). For this reason I thought the diagnosis must have been wrong. I have been taking the Androgel for 3 weeks now and still haven't seen any improvement down there. I also still have a little excess belly fat that I never used to have (I work out alot and have always been skinier than most people). I also noticed that if I consume alcohol (even just a beer) it exascerbates the symptoms. Do you think the gel just isn't working? Or is it that I have too much estrogen? I'm scheduled to see another urologist in two weeks. Any suggestions. Again, thanks alot. I really appreciate the feedback.

[megazoid]

No problem, i am here to help.

You have mentioned a few thing's that are important for me to point out. First off we are both of similar age and i also got prescribed androgel. The problem is when you take Androgel it can (and almost does) shut down your own natural production (HPTA supression), so it dosen't work in a "suppliment" like fashion. In the long term this can have a negative effect on fertility and testicular size and can sometimes cause irreversible tissue and cell changes to occur in the testicles.

Because you have mentioned have you some excess body fat around your stomach this means you are most likely prone to having an estrogen problem (E2 - Estridol). High estrogen will lead to your penis retracting alot more and hanging alot smaller (getting erections will be more difficult). Free Testosterone and DHT are the most important hormones for penile tissue sensation and flaccid penis size. DHT controls the vascular blood flow and nerve function. DHT is converted from testosterone via the liver and is considered 5 times more powerful than testosterone. DHT can have negative effects on the prostate (PSA is a good gauge for this) and on male pattern baldness (but only if you are genetically prone to this).

The problem with androgel is that once it shuts down your own natural production, sometimes the gel isn't enough to even get you above your previous levels (300/400). What dosage are you using? Because you mention you have some body fat it's possible that this is causing absorption issues and most likely converting to E2 and DHT but not getting your total t or free t into good ranges.

Zinc is a good natural inhibitor of estrogen and can stop the conversation of testosterone into estrogen in the liver. I advise taking the following suppliments:

ZMA (1 tablet daily)
Vit E (800iu daily - get the gel capsules this helps with vascular function and prevents penile fibrosis)

I have since stopped all TRT (Androgel, Tesim, etc) as i had my varicocele fixed and i am going to run HCG which is an LH analogue to regain testicular size and hopefully function. I advise anyone on TRT to use HCG alongside to help with libido, mood and fertility. If your testicles are capable it can double (if not more) your natural testosterone production. This is injected 3 times weekly while on androgel (or a similar topical gel) to prevent testicular atrophy/shrinkage and the constant "tight" scrotum you get while on TRT.

Make sure you get the following tests done on your next blood work out:-

Total T
Free T (or Bioavailable)
SHGB (high SHBG usually means high E2)
LH/FSH
DHT
Estridol
Prolactin
TSH

Feel free to ask any other questions!

[megazoid]

I meant to add that it would be wise to stop alcholol consumption while on TRT because it will cause an instant estrogen problem and your penis to shrink really bad (trust me - i have experienced this myself).

Did the urologist give any reasons why your testosterone was low for your age? Do you have a history of testicular tramua (varicoceles, hernia, mumps, etc)? Did your testicles atrophy?

[Anclerson]

Thank you. You have been most helpful. The urologist didn't know why my testosterone levels were low. All he said was he didn't think it was  my pituitary. He did a physical examination of my testicles as well and there was nothing wrong there. I honestly have no idea what is causing the imbalances and it's bothering me a lot. Any ideas? I'm thinking about stopping the TRT. I am on the 5mg androgel gel. It helps my mood, but I don't want to further complicate my condition if the androgel isn't even fixing the problem. Is that a bad idea? I take a daily vitamin (Men's One a Day, Vit. E 45 IU, Zinc 15mg). Is that enough for my zinc and vitamin E? Should I start taking HCG? Will that fix the problem?

[megazoid]

The problem is if your piturity is playing up you need to find out why. Unlike testicular disorders this isn't something that will fix itself over night or in fact at all in most cases. You need an MRI done to check for any piturity problems (tumors, mis-alignment, head injury, etc).

If your LH/FSH are low then you could try a PCT style restart however if you have actual physical defect of your piturity gland then the likelyhood is that you will need TRT for life.

Do you have your blood results at hand? I would be interested in evaluating them and will be able to offer some extra advice.

Are you testicles normal size 1.5/2inches in length? Have you suffered any testicular atrophy at all (shrinkage)?

HCG is an LH analogue so it 'emulates' (though in a more potent form) the LH signals sent from your piturity gland. Most guy's that suffer from secondary hypogonadism find that HCG daily is enough to support normal testosterone levels and function. Injection is done with a small insulin needle.

Do you have any history of head injury or in fact testicular problems (varicoceles, hernias, mumps,infection, a hard kick, etc)?

I recommend Vit E in capsule form at 800iu daily. Zinc at 30mg.

[Anclerson]

My testicles are still about 2 inches in length, but have atrophied a little since starting TRT. I just realized that when I was about 15 I had surgery to remove varioceles in my scrotum. Not sure if that has anything to do with this. However, I'm still leaning towards pituitary since I have no history of testicular trauma and they are of normal size. The urologist also didn't see anything wrong with them when he examined them. I don't have my blood test results on hand, but I will email the doctor to get them. I will buy the Vitamin E and Zinc supplements. Should I continue the TRT even though it isn't fixing the problem? I'll send you the blood test results when I get them. Thanks again for everything.

[megazoid]

I am curious to know if there is any kind of link between the varicoceles you had removed and your current situation. I received an email from another guy that had varicoceles surgically repaired about 5/6 years ago and now has low testosterone. His testicles were also not atrophied.

Which operational procedure was used for repairing the varicoceles and were they bi-lateral (both testicles) involved? Did you get varicocele embolization?

Even though your testicles are normal sized it's possible that leydig cell fibrosis could have set in and resulted in leydig cell death. This might explain the lower level of testosterone but i cannot be sure. When i see the blood results i will be able to tell you better. It's just 'too' unusual for someone with a previous history of varicoceles to induce low testosterone almost over night.

Regarding your testicles, do you feel like they change weight/size or density (sometimes 'soft', other times 'hard') throughout the day? Have you noticed any scrotum skin changes?

With the exception of having your penis 'shrunk up' while off TRT, what other symptoms do you have?

If you feel the TRT makes you feel a little better i would stay on it. I would however get another set of blood test's run while on TRT to re-evaluate your blood levels and again repost them here and i will help you figure out a better protocol.

HCG is crucial if your testicles are still functional and very potent. In some cases of primary testicular failure it can induce a cell reversal/regeneration process and in most cases return your testicles back to normal (this is my own intention). I plan on running 250iu HCG daily for 6 weeks until inter-testicular testosterone levels and serum testosterone level is restored. I will continue to run Nolvadex for 4 weeks to restart my HPTA. This should resolve the varicocele situation but it's difficult to say if this will work in a piturity based problem.

Which country are you from and how is your health care system?

[Anclerson]

Not sure what procedure was used to remove the vericoceles.  I'll see if I can find out. All I know is that I have a small scar on my scrotum from when I had it done. I have not noticed any changes with my testicles or scrotum other than that my testicles have atrophied slightly since starting the TRT. Other than having my penis 'shrunk up', my symptoms include low libido, no morning wood, depression, irritability, lack of motivation/confidence, increase in abdominal fat, loss of muscle, and lack of energy. The TRT has improved my mood (I'm less depressed and irritable), but for the most part has not resolved any of the other symptoms. Although better on the TRT my penis is still 'shrunken' relative to how it used to be.

Still waiting to receive the blood tests from the doctor. Hopefully I'll get them soon. Will post them once I do.

I'm a U.S. citizen with access to good healthcare.

[megazoid]

Please post your blood work when you recieve it, i am intrested in figuring this one out.

Have you ever used hair loss drugs such as proscar or propecia?

[Anclerson]

Never used hair loss products before. I don't have a family history of early hair loss in men either. Here are my blood results before starting androgel, looks like the urologist ignored the FSH. Let me know if you need anymore information...

FSH 1.4 mIU/mL (OUT OF RANGE: range = 1.5-8.0 mIU/mL)
LH 2.7 miU/mL (in range)
Prolactin 7.4 ng/mL (in range)
Testosterone Total 374 ng/dL (in range)
Alkaline Phosphate 79 U/L (in range)
AST 21 U/L (in range)
ALT 13 U/L (in range)

[Anclerson]

Also, is it possible that it could be a prostate related problem as the one guy who posted before suggested?

[megazoid]

Thanks for posting up your results. Your LH seem's low. A normal LH is around 3/4. This in turn could be causing the low test levels.

Being low is a good indication that your testicles might still be working, but you like you said yourself could also point towards your piturity being the problem.

The fact you mentioned no atrophy is a sign that the varicocele might not be to blame but unless you get a proper test then it will be difficult to out rule.

You could try running a course of Nolva/Clomid on a daily basis to see if your testicles are capable of producing higher levels and see how you feel.  Nolvadex Targets estrogen at breast tissue and parts of the brain. This in turn leads to a higher LH output and a higher testosterone level in return. The problem is when E2 is brought down to low this can cause problems (as can high E2).

A nolva test would be able to tell if you have a testicular or piturity problem based on the percentage of increase you get in total T from using 20mg a day. It's pretty straightforward with minimal to no side effects.

Can you still feel the varicoceles at all? Do they cause any kind of discomfort or problems beside the low t?

[Anclerson]

Yes, I'm pretty sure its the pituitary. I have no history of testicular trauma, no sign of varicoceles, and my testicles were above average in size before starting the androgel. I have a few questions... Since I'm on adrogel and am still having sexual dysfunction/abdominal fat, do you think my problems are being caused by high E2? If so, would the androgel contribute to this at all? If it is indeed my pituitary that's causing the mayhem, will I need to get an MRI? Should I wait until I see the urologist to start nolva? Thanks again.

[megazoid]

It's possible you have high E2 but also possible that you just don't respond well to androgel. Some people end up with a lower level than previous.

How bad is your sexual function at present? You could try taking "DIM" from ritecare this is good for lowering E2.

[Anclerson]

Yes, I've been wondering if maybe the androgel just isn't raising my T-levels. As far as my sexual dysfunction goes, it's still pretty bad. I haven't really noticed a difference since starting androgel. Penis is still shrunk up and desensitized, difficult to get/maintain erections, no spontaneous erections, no morning wood, low libido. Thought maybe testosterone just wasn't the problem before, but now I'm thinking the androgel just isn't raising my T-levels any. I'm thinking about stopping and seeing if I notice any difference. Do you know how long I will have to be off of it before I would be able to notice (or not notice) a difference? If I have high E-2 when I get tested next Friday, what would most likely be the cause?

[kc69]

In reading your comments back and forth, I wonder if I am experiencing the same problems. Back in high school I measured over 8 inches, now I believe I would be 6.5 or smaller. I do have a swollen vein on top of my sperm chord which has been ultrasound and physically inspected by two doctors. No one has ever told me my penis would shrink. I still get morning erections often, but it is hard sometimes to stay erect during sex with my wife. I also would measure pretty well in how large my testicals are, although they might be smaller than before also. I have put on some weight over the years, but read that you only lose 1 inch per 100 lbs.. I have only gained around 30 lbs. or so. Please help me with any info. you might have. If this isn't reversable, then I might see about penis extension surgery. I am having surgery to remove the vein, but if it doesn't fix the problem, then what's the point? Thanks for your time!

[megazoid]

It sound's like you have a varicocele but this doesn't mean you have low testosterone. Weight gain in itself will lead to higher estridol/E2 levels so working out a little and loosing the gut is always the best step before looking into medication.

You never mentioned your age, how long you have had this varicocele and such like. Ask your doctor/GP for a hormone profile the same as i listed above.

[kc69]

Thanks for emailing back. I am 30. I have had this problem for about 4 years. I noticed my penis getting smaller way before I realized the swollen vein, but that doesn't mean it wasn't there. Do you think after surgery things can go back to normal, or do these kinds of problems need more attention? I will talk to a doctor about the tests you recomended, but it may be a while before I go. Thanks again for taking your time to help out.

[megazoid]

You are still young like myself (I am 23 year's old and had to learn this stuff the hard way too). During puberty there is a rapid rise in T levels and elevated LH/FSH. High levels of T and DHT result in a larger and "fuller" looking penis.

I also suffered the shrinkage myself but have since start a custom  routine of HCG + TRT and i can safely say i am feeling alot better. Penis is hanging better, testicles are a bit fuller (though not much) and libido is doing well.

Testim is alot better than androgel for me at least, though i seem to respond well to both (i am very lean with little muscle mass). HCG helps restore ejaculate volume and testicular size and prevents the tight scrotum problem while on TRT.

[LightningTomater]

Hey guys, I am 22 year old living in Providence. I too seem to have lost some size in my penis over the past year or so. Additionally, my penis now slightly angles to the right when erect. I am very healthy and not overwieght. I used to be 7.5 inches when I was freshmen in college. I am a senior now and I am 6 inches, and not as thick as I was. This is very troublesome and depressing

Additionally, I cannot last as long as I used to. Whats very weird is i can see veins on my penis from the base about 3/4 the way up, they look healthy but that last inch right by the head, they seem to disappear or are zigzaggy and very thin (what would cause this)?, and the skin there seems sort of raw. Also, the head of my penis does not seem to beocme as engorged as it once did when erect.

My penis does not feel as elastic or spongey when flacid as it used to (what could be the causes?) Lastly, my testacles feel as if they have shrank. They used to dangle low and swing when I would be engaged in sex when entering my partner (and i miss that). I have been tested for all STDS including herpes and HIV and they were all negative. I have had blood work done but I don't think the checked my T levels. Also what does PCT, HMT, DHT, TRT, and varicocle mean?

I guess I am just really worried. I can still ejaculate and have semen come out, but it doesn't shoot as far nor is it as large amount as it used to be. I just hope I can put a stop to the rate these problems are occurring or reverse them. Finally, when I masturabte, the whole top 1/2 of my shaft appears to get dry, it turns whitish and looks like dry skin, but its not, and it likes mike it may crack, but not bleed, just be red and irratated. ANY HELP from someone with any insight into any of these problems would be appreciated. Thank you

[MPV]

Hey, how you doing?

About a year ago I realized I probably have Inguinal Hernia but I'm too scared to do anything about it because I would probably would have to do surgery and that's a scary tought. If it would have been any where else on my body I wouldnt have cared as much. Now  I am starting to notice bigger balls, and shrinkage in the actual penis! I don't have imputence (thank god) yet and hopefully never lol but i do have low sperm fertility (thin sperm) before it used to be thick and white. I did suffer from an STD but i caught it quick and cured it (hopefully)as I didn't have time to go back for confirmation, it feels like its better though! lol. I think it is obvious that I probably know the answer to my own problem which is to probably see the doctor to refer me to a hernia specialist then have an MRI then probably take it out, take some hormonal pills and get better. Am I right? Or is there anything else that I can possibly do?

By the way I am 23 years of age, I also live in a country with fancy doctors and very good benefits lol and my sex life is not as it used to be, it is alright now but when im having sex the only problem i feel is the length not being as big as it should be! which sucks big time!

[megazoid]

I want to ask everyone here to relax and stop worrying. Worry and stress in itself WILL cause additional hormonal problems (including adrenal issues and lower testosterone). Unless you are living with this 'condition' for more than 4/5 year's and have very low testosterone (i.e. 10nmol and below) then the chances of actually loosing "size" is near impossible, this IS reversible. The penis is a developed organ that cannot just diminish over night. Everyone here needs to start realizing that hormones are the cause of diminished blood flow to the penis and in turn effecting erection quality and overall penis health. Once the balance (not just 'higher' levels) are back using whatever treatment is required your penis will hang and swell up like it did before, in fact i might have actually "gained" some length and girth since starting replacement treatment. So there is hope. Trust me, i have felt similar to what you guy's did at one point.

The balance of Testosterone to Estrogen controls the flaccid penis size, if testosterone is low then estrogen is either higher or lower. High or low both cause there own problems, both of which "can" cause a small flaccid penis size and less full erections. Estrogen is responsible for maintaining healthy, thick skin, etc. This is why females have thick and luscious skin during there teenage years.

Dry skin is not only possible low E2 (though it has to be very low), but can also more frequently be due to hypothyroidism.

Testosterone and DHT have a role in determining blood flow through the penis and testes, affecting nitric oxide production which in turn effects erectile function and "quality".

@LightningTomater

You never mentioned your age, weight, diet and exercise you do. The changes you are seeing in your penis are from hormonal alterations as described above. The vein's can appear more prominent if E2 is high but at the same time low E2 (estridol) can cause dry skin on the penis and reduced blood flow. DHT and Estridol are very important hormones for maintaining the e'elastic' feeling of the penis and the erection quality. There can be some loss of tissue in the penis if T/E is low, this doesn't effect the actual smooth muscular tissue but rather than thin surrounding tissue on the penis. This could be why you are experiencing the raw and more prominent vascular features. DHT (a hormone converted from testosterone in the liver) is roughly 5 times more powerful than testosterone and one of the main hormones for promoting body hair growth, muscular look, penis blood flow, etc.

Check above both your testicles for a "varicocele". This is an enlarged vein that is attached to your testicle. It will feel like a swelling in your scrotum on either side. If your testicles have shrank with no specific reasons you need a full hormone work out done and an evaluation by a urologist. Secondary hypogonadism is possible.

The fact you mentioned reduced seaman could be from reduced FSH/LH output from your piturity gland which could also explain the other hormonal problems you are experiencing too. Sometimes the mumps, chicken poxs, head tramua, etc can cause issues with the piturity that in turn cause hormonal issues and also the testicles.

You need to get the following checked:

Total Testosterone
Bioavailable Testosterone
Estradiol
DHT
LH
FSH
TSH
SHBG
Prolactin


@MPV

Doing good, thanks for asking. How about yourself?

Inguinal Hernia can cause all manner of problems including disturbances to the testicular vein plexas due to additional pressure on the testicular veins. Some men experience a spiking pain in the testicle(s) and shrinkage/atrophy or sluggish blood flow around the testicle. Both of which will cause leydig cell dysfunction and hormonal alterations. Inguinal Hernia could lead to varicocele formation which can then lead to testicular dysfunction/failture and hormonal abnormalities also.

This is something that should be looked into and fixed. An ultrasound can evaluate this and a simple out-patient procedure can be done to repair this. Testicular veins have no 'connections' with the penis so fixing this will only further improve testicular function.

Increased testicular size should be investigated. Diety changes or an increase of Zinc could cause this. Blood flow abnormalities should also be investigated.

Higher testosterone levels usually result in higher E2 which in turn can cause a smaller penis size but usually has no effect on erect penis size. How is your abdominal weight and health in general?

Feel free to ask anymore questions, i am here to help.

[MPV]

How you doin agian megazoid?

Well I'm 6'2" about 185lbs, I workout on a regular basis i do have abdomonal muscles as well (abs), I jog, I push myself to the limits when working out, so I know im in pretty good shape! I'm also a personal trainer.

I know there is a size difference about 2" less than what it should be, I was pretty good before so 2" less still keeps me above average lol but I want to do whatever it takes to get it back! a man just isnt a man with out his penis. lol

It's a scary thought to go inside an operating room with idiot doctors waiting to cut you open, now thats frightening especially after hearing about all those horror surgeries gone wrong. I just don't want the idiot doctors to replace my penis with an arm or something, or even a finger! lol

I know I have to go for some sort of X-ray wether its a CT Scan, MRI, or Ultrasound? Isnt that for mothers with babies? And then possibly find a decent doctors with amazing crudentials to operate. Then take some hormonal drugs or something, I dont even know anymore. I thought about it for so long that I just don't care anymore, Im not stressed or anything, I'm far from it, I just do not care anymore! I work out, I'm pretty healthy.

I guess the first step is to be refered to a Urologist, hopefully a very good one, before I start thinking ahead of what I'm supposed to do.

Thanks for the advice
MVP

[Donvar]

Thanks a lot for all this information.You have given a new hope.

I felt shrinking in penis two years back, I guess this is the same time I started gaining weight. I am 5' 7" with 185 Lb now, a gain of 30 lb.I think it could be reason.I will follow up with the tests you recommended.

Anyways, another  bigger problem which I am concerned is the considerbale bending of my penis downwards.This is due to wrong style masturbation in childhood.I did lying on my stomache which I guess pressed the tissues just after the base.
I read somewhere that Vitamin E will help me.
Do you have any information in this issue.? Help will be appreciated.

Thanks

[megazoid]

I am glad you have gained a sense of hope. This is important for your mental state as well as physical. These problems can be resolved with correct treatment and time.

Penile blood flow and scrotal sensation is a complex balance between each the hormones and neurotransmitters.

Testosterone helps improve blood flow through the penis. However, an excess may actually reduce blood flow. For example, testosterone can both increase and decrease blood pressure - depending on its relationship (e.g. ratio, activity, level, etc.) to other hormones such as estradiol and DHEA.

Estradiol plays a role in penile blood flow. Perhaps when estradiol is too high or too low - for the particular individual - flow is affected negatively. In some people, a good level may be 25. In others - particularly those with higher end testosterone levels - a level of 40-50 may be better. So long as a person isn't exhibiting signs of excess estrogen (e.g. gynecomastia, prostate enlargement), then the use of Arimidex, DIM or ZMA to knock down estradiol may not be necessary.

Thyroid hormone plays a role in this also. Blood flow may be reduced and the scrotum retracted when thyroid hormone is too low since one's metabolism and temperature may be lower. The scrotum retracts to help maintain the testes at a certain temperature - not too high, not too low - for sperm production.

High norepinephrine levels - such as in anxiety states - may reduce blood flow by constricting blood arteries in general.

Adrenal fatigue may reduce blood flow by causing the brain to produce more norepinephrine.

Excess serotonin may reduce blood flow and sensation - by reducing dopamine and sex drive, by numbing sensations - as it blocks the sensation of stress.

There are many relationships like this among the hormones and neurotransmitters.

All "normal labs" tells me is that the lab results are within 2 standard deviations from the mean for that particular lab - i.e. the labs are within their reference range.

However, "normal" labs may still indicate illness - depending on the skill one has in reading the labs.

Vitamin e can be used to prevent scar tissue buildup and muscular atrophy in the collagen based penile tissue. I advise 800iu daily (2 'gel' based capsules are best). I also recommend promoting blood flow to the whole area roughly 4/5 hour's after taking this by showering and stretching the penis and promoting blood flow. It "is" possible to reverse tissue changes on some parts of the penis when hormones are balanced properly.

You never mentioned your age Donvar? Weight gain can be a sign of estrodiol dominence and/or high DHT levels.

Feel free to ask anymore questions.

[megazoid]

Anclerson, alcholol has various effects on penile blood and the endocrine system. I wouldn't recommend a urologist or endocrinologist for dealing with male hormonal problems, you won't get the answers you need. Your testosterone could be 1 or 2 points above the "normal" range and they would claim you are normal and healthy. The fact is, this isn't "healthy" for you and you have noticeable symptoms. You need to visit an anti-aging clinic (TRT/HRT specialists) who will get you back on track. You never mentioned where about you stay?

Alcohol has multiple negative effects on the endocrine system, such as:

1. Alcohol blocks the production of growth hormone and blocks the liver's production of IGF-1 in response to growth hormone. If a person is on growth hormone replacement therapy, a single glass of wine, can of beer, shot of liquor wastes that day's growth hormone dose. It is a waste of time and money to give growth hormone to a person drinking alcohol daily.

2. Alcohol is a simple sugar. The brain senses this and thinks it has enough adrenal cortisol production, then reduces arenal function for hours. Like eating a sugary candy or food or fruit juice, one can worsen adrenal function for hours by drinking alcohol. This causes fatigue that lasts long after the drink of alcohol.

3. Alcohol withdrawal can occur from non-abusive doses of alcohol. This can interrupt melatonin production and sleep.

4. Alcohol can suppress testosterone production by at least 40/50%, this could aggravate penile shrinkage symptoms.

Alcohol is toxic to practically every cell in the body. If one chooses to drink alcohol, it should be intermittently - as a treat so to say - rather than being regularly used.

The problems is, once your hormones are in order using whatever treatment is required you might be required to stop alcohol intake. I have had to make this sacrifice myself (I am also only 23 year's old - it's tough) but the sexual improvements are worth it.

I am on Testim (2 tubes daily) + HCG (250iu - mon-wed-fri) and getting high testosterone levels from this. I am taking ZMA, DIM, Vit B6, Vit E, Vit D + Calcium and a good multi-vitiam. So far so good, i am still not 100% perfect though.

[Anclerson]

Thanks for the response. I thought it would safe to drink a small amount of alcohol since I am not currently on TRT. Guess I was wrong. I won't be touching it for awhile now. I should also mentioned that I have been experiencing constipation ever since I first got the penile shrinkage and ed. Thought they didn't have anything to do with each other at the time, but now that I'm still experiencing both, I'm pretty sure they are being caused by the same thing. Do you think there's anyway my problems may indicate a vascular problem? If so, why would alcohol affect it? Thanks.

[Anclerson]

Megazoid, I saw yet another urologist that couldn't help me out. Very frustrating. I'm going to take the tests you recommended to an endocrinologist and see if they can figure out what the problem is. Also, I thought it would be important to note that after one beer my penis atrophy is greatly exacerbated. This I find disturbing considering I used to be able to drink a dozen beers playing beer pong (yeah I'm in college) and still perform perfectly sexually. Now after one my penis shrinks and there's no chance of getting an erection. Does this give you any insight as to what the problem is? Thanks again for all the help and support.

[Donvar]

Thanks for the info.
As about my information, I am 29 and I am from Houston,USA.
As per your advice, I will start Vitamin E.I also read that there is some cream
'verapamil' (a calcium channel blocker)  evidently helps break up the scar tissue.But is expensive $275.
http://www.malehealthcenter.com/c_peyronie.html

Other than this for shrinkage, I will go talk to my URO about these tests you mentioned.But you know, they always say every reading as normal, so where do I find  healthy mean/ranges for these tests.

Total Testosterone
Bioavailable Testosterone
Estradiol
DHT
LH
FSH : range = 1.5-8.0 mIU/mL
TSH
SHBG
Prolactin

Also I forgot to mention earlier,After shrinkage which was 2 years back,I got prominent veins on my penis with zigzag patterns similiar to mentioned by LightningTomater.Also I had a weak erection and seldom morning wood from childhood.
Anyways, good that you gave a number of options, an endocrinologist and Anti aging clinics.This is going to be a major personal project.

[Anclerson]

Megazoid, I am living/going to school in Southern Ohio. I need to find a TRT/HRT specialist. Any suggestions? I'm very interested in HCG. Thanks.

[Anclerson]

I'm going to start a cycle of Nolvadex (20mg/daily) to see if lowering my E-levels will give me any results. You suggested doing this before when I mentioned that I had low FSH. How exactly should Nolvadex raise my FSH and Testosterone levels? Thanks.

[SOFTBALLS]

Hey megazoid do you have a email adress would like a chat i have been taking 20 mg nolvadex and arimedex @ 0.5mg and my test has gone for 184 to 512 in 3 weeks i feel like a man again i did roids and shut my HPTA down for 6 years and only just trying to get it back been on PCT for 41 days so far. My next blood test will be in 2 week is i expect my test to be in the 650 to 700 range my age is 36 btw my fsh level were

LH 3.1
FSH 3.4
Now they are !!!

FSH 7.3
LH 7.6
So my problem was my piturity gland was shut down fingers crossed it will hold up after PCT what do you think ? I think the results are great
All the best zoidbar PS check out www.steroids.comforum some very good info on their i go by the name zoidbar.

[SOFTBALLS]

BTW guys dont just take nolvadex or you will get a build up of estrogen try a AI as well like arimedex or you may have a pair of titty as well no joke more estrogen and les test = big tittys = So you need to cut the estrogen down at the supply as nolvadex is a serm it will only block it at recepter site your body will make it all so if you have lower estrogen levels your body will make more test trust me as i have been limp for all most 6 years due to my own stupid mistakes Now i am horny and hard id say im about 75% better than i was still no morning wood but i think the nolva is doing that so after PCT i expect a rebound effect of estrogen and fingers crossed i will stay normal. Best of luck to all you guys as i know what your going though..
Zoidbar
PS: i will be happy to post my blood tests if you want to compair notes.
SHGB
Progestrion
LH
Test
FH

[rudient]

The problems you are suffering all stem from a lack of neurotransmitters in the brain,which have been drained by over masturbation.Also your hormones have been depleted,dhea,testosterone.The lack of serotonin and dopamine also lead to body pains,premature ejaculation,watery semen etc etc.You should check out Dr Linns Viapal products.If you are under 30 then go for viapal J,if over 30 then Viapal P.

[megazoid]

Sorry for the delay reply guy's, work has been very busy the past few days.

I am going back in myself for a follow up operation to rectify a reflux/back flow problem that exists in the side the varicocele was repaired. So back in for a venogram in the next 2 weeks.

@Anclerson - How are you getting on with the nolvadex treatment? Nolvadex should give you noticable LH/FSH elevation but without the correct tappering this has been known to fade back to normal months later. You must find how WHY your LH/FSH are low and why your piturity isn't sending out the right signals.

While this drug is very useful for treating secondary hypogodism and checking the feedback loop for problems it does come with it's own set of problems. Nolvadex is liver toxic when used for extended periods of time (i.e. more than a year). It can also reduce IGF-1 hormone up at 30% a day when used for extended periods of time.


@SOFTBALLS - I don't recommend taking both Nolvadex and Armidex because this will drop estridol and total estrogen down too low. Low E2 is dangerous for bone mineral density and another factor in ED and low libido.

Your LH wasn't too far off the normal scale. 3.9/4 is considered the average or normal scale so hopefully you will be able to bring your LH/FSH up to this range. Anything between 2/3 is the 'normal' for FSH.

FSH is responsible for sperm production and has a longer half-life than LH (which dependent on various factors is around 15/30 minutes).

Lack of morning wood is a sign that your estrdiol is too low. What are your levels like on Nolvadex alone? Have you considered using DIM as a natural AI?

It would be useful to have bioavailable T tested alongside Estridol and Free Estridol to build a better picture of what's happening with regards to estridol.

What symptoms of low t did you have Softballs? I assume your testicles were small and atrophied (thus the username?). Did you ever run HCG?

Keep me posted on your results guy's and i will try to continue replying to this thread.

[SOFTBALLS]

Dont think my estrogen is too low but im sure i will have a rebound effect , My estrogen level are as follows and mesaured in pmol/l do the converion for us.
Before any treatment !

Progestorone 2.0 nmol/l
Estrogen 56 pmol/l
LH 3.1 iu/l
FSH 3.4 iu.l
Teterone 6.3 nmol/l = 181.00 ng/dl in usa very bad.
SHGB 12 nmol/l

Now the next test is 2 weeks into my PCT using 20 mg of novadex perday and 0.5mg or arimedex this is a 45 50 day pct.

Progestorone 4.2 nmol/l
Estrogen 65 pmol/l
LH 7.6 iu/l
FSH 7.3 iu/l
Testerone 13.9 nmol/l
SHGB 18 nmol/l

The next set are 4 weeks into my PCT are as follows.

Estrogen 85 pmol/l = 23.1 pg/ml USA
LH 7.3 iu/l
FSH 7.4 iu/l
Testerone 17.8 nmol/l = 512 ng/dl in USA WOW
SHGB 20.0
PSA 0.8 ug/l

As you can see it made a lot of diffrence on my blood tests estrogen is under 30 pg/ml  and that where i want it to be , i will be getting blood work done on wendsday and will post friday for my results. Remember my HPTA ha been shut down for 5 to 6 years , I had a very high sex drive before and was all ways hard in the mornings. But in the last 5 years no hard on's and not much sex drive at all if any , Now i can do it twice in the eve with the girlfriend still no morning wood but solid when i have sex i am waiting for that rebound when i stop , I have gone down to 10 mg of nova and 0.25 of arimedex asd of today i will run it for another 10 days then stop wait 2 weeks and get blood done,  You asked what my symptoms were no morning wood no Sexsaual thoughts
**** would be floppy even when masterbating (masturbating) deppresion hot flushes all the signs of low test , My balls are rock hard 90% of the time and are all most over 2 inches in size and hang nice they allways have done. I have not used HCG but will use it if this fails only in 500iu per day as anythink higher could de senceatize your balls to LH my balls are working and producing sperm and i have noticed the last time i had sex it shot out as before it would dribble out so i would say i have no problems down stairs just my HTPA is out of sink and my fingers are crossed that my LEVELS will stay high and ajust after the drugs are stoped i have lost over 14 ilbs in weight in 4 weeks and feel like a new man no depresion very intrested in sex every day for the last 2 weeks and sometimes twice a day.

[SOFTBALLS]

Sorry my balls were hard and hang good but if i get hot or have a hot bath they get soft i am told most mens
do anyway so i guess that is not a problem for me. They never shrunk at all or whent back home if you know what i mean a i was producing test but in small quantity so they were still working. All the best..

[Anclerson]

I just got the Nolvadex today. I'm planning on taking a 20mg tab once daily. How long until you think I should see results (if I do see results)?  Thanks.

[megazoid]

Very difficult to say. Be careful with the nolvadex, this isn't just a herbal suppliment but a very powerful drug that is rather toxic to the liver when used in high dosages.

Don't run it for more than 3/6 weeks (imho) and see how you respond. You will need to get frequent blood work done to see how well you respond. Keep in mind that low estrogen can be as bad as high. So maybe try experimenting with half a tab a day rather than one full tab (10mg) to see how you get on.

[SOFTBALLS]

Nolva will make your albium level high as its very toxic on the liver i think your wasting your time doing nova on its own take a AI as well nolva is a serm and will not stop estrogen just a blocker it goes to recepter sites you will get a build up of etrogen and when you come off you will feel even worst than you did. Get blood work done as well or your wasting your time,,,

[LightningTomater]

Hi Megazoid, Hope all is well, I finally got the tests done after getting a referral from the primary to a Urologist. BTW I am 23 year old, athletic, healthy weight for my height 5'11' - exercise 4 times a week. I think my FSH is way to high and I am afraid I have testicular failure, but I produce sperm, less than normal (under 60 million) but more than infertile (anything under 20 million) I produce 50 million.

If you may have forgetten me, just scroll up a few posts, I am there!

Anyways, here are the results.

TSH:     1.100
FSH:     14.39 (Very High I think)
LH:      3.9
Prolac:  7.17
Free T:  2.5
Free S:  23.4
Total S: 937

High Semen Volume
Normal initial motility
Low 12 hour motility
High PH semen level (8)
Normal Viscosity

What do these results say to you? I think I may have a varicole as well, if so do you think i should get it repaired, and if so how will it help me? Any insight and advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I am pretty much all alone on the subject, except my girlfriend is being supportive at the moment, but I worry it could fade. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Best,

LT

[megazoid]

First off i would like to apologize for my lack of presence on this thread. I am here to support and help you guy's as much as possible.

I am a suffering from similar symptoms myself but on the road to recovery.

I have a venogram and additional coil embolization arranged for mid march to deal with the reflux/back flow i am suffering in the left testicle, because i didn't suffer leydig or testicular tissue death (the 'meat' of the testicles appeared normal and active on color doppler ultrasound) i could be looking to see good improvements after surgery. Varicocele caused all the problems for me.

For some reason you cannot post contact information here or else i would to help people privately if they wish. I will state that i will be setting up a website dedicated to mens hormonal issues and testicular disorders very soon (I will keep everyone posted). For now we can keep the discussion to this thread to help other people suffering from similar symptoms.

I have seen good improvements while on Androgel (10g's daily) + HCG 3 times a week. I take one ZMA at night and one DIM (as my 'natural' AI) to control E2 when needed. Learning to monitor the symptoms is the important part. The penis is a good guide to hormones and a good way of monitoring healthy T levels or more importantly T/E2 ratio.

LT, our symptoms sound very similar, right down to your build, age and penile symptoms (dry skin, shrinkage, etc). I also have a slight curve but not anything bad just an "arch" due to weakening of the muscles/ligaments in the groin area due to the low T (also probably due to the reduced elasticity of the penile tissues from low dht and e2). I am slowly improving this by doing proper exercises in this area and HRT.

I have seen guy's go for year's with penile shrinkage and recover back to there normal self with proper treatment (HRT). Getting T back into your body is the start. On a more positive note over at another health forum a bunch of guy's claimed actual 'gains' in size while injecting 150mg of T a week (Test Cyp). They noticed improvements in flaccid and erect size due to increased blood flow and increased DHT levels.

Elevated FSH would indicate testicular failure with regards to sperm production. FSH has a long half life (6+ hours) and generally when we move into double figures the sperm production 'tubules' of the testicle are not responding correctly or are somewhat damaged. Various factors could cause this: Mumps, Testicular Tramua (hard hit), infection, STD or varicocele/hernia. Have you had any of these?

The good new's however is that you don't have elevated LH (in fact very normal LH - 3.9 being the 'true' average, i was this also) which would indicate that you don't have leydig cell atrophy nor leydig cell death (or tissue fibrosis). However it's possible that if you do have a varicocele you could have caused programmed cell death of the sperm production part of the testicle. This would explain the testicular atrophy. Keep in mind that the testicle is made up of 80/90% of sperm production cells/tissue, so any shrinkage is usually related to this area. I have some questions for you:

1) Have you noticed any skin changes on your scrotum (thinning/thickening, etc)?

2) How much shrinkage have you noticed in the testicles?

3) Do you notice your scrotum is allot tighter than normal throughout the day?

4) What makes you think you have a varicocele? Can you feel enlarged (and sometimes painful) veins above your testicle? Some people describe it feeling like a bag of worms.

5) Do your testicles change consitency throughout the day (from hard to soft, etc)?

To be honest, your sperm look's fine but i would strongly advise banking some for safety (espically if you are going to need any form of TRT). With that said using HCG alongside is always recommend to keep the testicles 'ticking' along and producing some extra T.

Can you post your results with lab ranges please? This is helpful in the evaluation.

You didn't post your total T or Estridol (e2) which would be helpful in evaluating your situation also. DHT would be a bonus.

The subject of varicocele is highly debated but in my humble opinion getting it fixed is a wise move. This causes sluggish testicular blood flow, sperm abnormalities, testicular over-heating and generally dysfunction of the testicular cells. I went for embolization which removed the varicocele completely but i still had some back flow/additional 'channel' open causing reflux so i need another operation to fix this. After this is complete i will be able to tell how well it has worked by my hormonal blood work (also if my testicles respond better to HCG stimulation and regrow back to normal size).

I have seen some men with elevated FSH making exceptional improvements after varicocele repair (i.e. FSH going back down to 4/5 when previously double figures due to varicocele). The over-heating is more than likely the prime cause of sperm production dysfunction.

You will need to get an ultrasound (color doppler is prefered) to check for varicocele and sub-clinical varicocele.

How do you rate your sexual performance with regards to libido and erection quality? Can you still penetrate your girl or do you like to use ED drug's to boast confidence in this area?

Feel free to ask any more questions, i will do my best to answer any queries.

[LightningTomater]

Megazoid,

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WRITING BACK SO PROMPTLY.

I am glad to hear everything is going well for you, and hope it continues as such.
I am highly intrigued in all this knowledge, I was a pre-med major in college, before switching to Communications, oh well.

Moving forward, it is difficult to not stress out just a little because it looks as though I may not be able to produce a child based on this pattern. Do you think it is possible to lower the FSH and retain healthy sperm once again?

As for the questions you asked:

1. Yes I feel as though scrotum has gotten a lot tighter (all the time)

[megazoid]

LT, glad my reply was of some help. I will continue to help you in solving this. Much like you i never got the answers i wanted or needed, so i done 2 year's of medical research to gain the knowledge i have now. Dealing with personal accounts and reviewing other peoples cases along the way helped me a great deal and i have become knowledged in the field of hormones and testicular disorders and dysfunction.

So far you have the strangest case i have seen. I am going to spend some time thinking about this one but will give you some feedback for now.

Estridol and DHT are responsible for flaccid and erect penis size and ultimately !quality' of the rection. You total t is the top of the testosterone range and one of the highest natural readings i have seen for a man of your age. You shouldn't be showing any symptoms of low testosterone and if you are your problems must be due to other hormones.

Low E2 could cause sperm production problems and high E2 could also cause sperm production problems. So this might be co-linked with your 'varicocele-like' symptoms of sperm dysfunction.

I would recommend getting the varicocele to see how thing's improve. Various factors contribute to the scrotal tightness and i believe varicocele is one of the factors. Low T also results in a hyer active scrotal muscle reflex which can cause the tightness. However you're total t is in range making me assume that E2 is the problem here.

For removal of ED symptoms a total t of 650+ is required and this is considered the top end of the scale, so being 900+ is very good and one shouldn't be showing ED symptoms in this range. However this could be leading to problems with elevated E2 and free e2, which would explain the ED symptoms and perceived shrinkage. Your penis should and will not shrink with a total t of this level. So rest assured i am confident that when we get more blood work done and answer a few more questions we will have more answers.

I feel condident in saying that your problems exist in high total estrogen or high free e2. I recommend in this case getting the following blood work done:

Total T
Bioavailable T
SHBG (very important!)
Estridol
Free Estridol
DHT
LH
FSH
Prolactin


Please answer the following yes or no.

High estrogen (Can mean zinc, b-6, magnesium deficiency):

no morning wood
no sex drive
no desire to love
crying no apparent reason
**** hurt
no appetite
no energy
sore joins
agin skin
constipation (lack of serotonin, dehydration)
can not **** (enlarge prostate)
work out suck ass
no desire to be in the gym
have no feelings feel emotionially NUMB
Hair falls out
low body temperatire, high some times
adrenal fatigue
infections - comprmise immune system
lack of dreams - due to rem sleep
suciidal thoughts and irraitional thoughts
social isolation

Low
no morning wood
get fat belly - from lack of estrogen ( fatty liver)
homocystein levels rise
heart disease
atheroclrosis
weight loss
gain fat easily
loose muscle
increased infections

Blood cells in the sperm could be related to varicocele. Again, E2 could be to blame too. I had the same thing happen to me also but 'traces' of blood were found in my urine.

Have you ever had chicken pox, mumps or any other 'infection' you can recall that effected that area at all? Did you ever twist or get kicked hard in the testicles?

High FSH dosen't always mean bad sperm production, the testicles need to be seriously damaged to end up with no sperm production, i wouldn't worry too much about being infertile as i believe once the varicocele is repaired your testicle will resume normal function.

For now i recommend trying to take a ZMA suppliment before bed and also trying some DIM at dinner time. DIM is a natural aromotize inhibator which will reduce both total estridol and also free e2. I can't post links here but search for "ritecare" and order from there. They ship worldwide and provide the highest quality DIM available. This is the best natural suppliment you can get. It's well known in the hormone world as being as potent as prescription drugs for similar usuages.

Feel free to ask anymore questions.

[Anclerson]

Megazoid, I got an MRI done and it came back negative for anything wrong with my pituitary (tho it did find a cyst in my pineal glad).  I was also checked for HIV and hemochromatosis, both of which were negative.  My blood results were as follows:

Good Results:
Prolactin 7.5
Estradiol 21

Not so good:
FSH 1.2 (Range = 1-19)
LH  2.8 (Range = 2-11)
Total T 436 (Range = 240-950)
Free T 10.9 (Range = 9-30)

The doctor told me that since I still fall in these "normal" ranges that there is nothing he can do. Obviously I'm NOT OK with this. I'm depressed, my **** is shriveled up, I've gained weight, and I can't even drink alcohol or it makes everything 10 times worse. I've tried for over 4 months now to get this treated and haven't made any progress. It won't matter much longer, but I want to thank you for all your help and support.

[megazoid]

Anclerson, when you say it won't matter much longer, please don't even consider suicide or anything of the kind. I went through this myself and almost lost my family, girlfriend and own life due to suicide because of this illess. I won't let it happen to anyone else. This is treatable and if you read up you will see i am making good progress from what 'could' be considered worse, primary testicular failure (or primary hypogonadism). Your testicles work so they will respond well to HCG stimulation and you will be able to get your T level up (including free t).

It's an ironic situation because weight gain in itself causes elevated estrogen. I believe you are suffering from low SHBG and because of this an E2 level of 21 would be considered "high" even though your E2 is actually in the perfect range for a normal T range male.

With regards to your results, your LH is low. A normal LH is 3.9 (or above, but not double figures). So technically you are suffering from secondary hypogonadism of unknown origin. Don't settle for being mistreated this happens to many men and they suffer for years.

You know you are not right, i know you are not right, so do something about it. If it means self-medicating, so be it. You want answers and you want your life back.

I am here to support and help you, believe me when i say this, because i say this from my heart. I have had the same terrible ordeal with doctors and not being treated properly.

What we have is treatable and you will get your penis and erections back. Trust me.

Some guy's go for years suffering with these symptoms with lower levels than you have. Some with 100/200 range and get NO answers.

You need to visit an anti-aging clinic. I don't know where you stay so can't recommend anyone but if you are in the US i recommend www.allthingsmale.com. Dr John is the best in the world at treating this condition, he will give you the help and medication required.

At the end of the day it might just come down to shooting 125/150mg of Test a week and going back to your old self in a matter of months. Using some HCG would be an added bonus on the 5/6 day.

In the mean time get your hand's on some DIM and ZMA. Take one ZMA before bed and one DIM at dinner time. Monitor yourself by using "morning wood" as your gauge. I believe your SHBG is low and your Free E2/E2 is high due to this.

You need more blood work done:

Total T
Bioavailable T
Estridol
Free Estridol
SHBG
Prolactin
DHT
LH
FSH
TSH

Just remember, i am here to help, i really do know how much hell this can be. Feel free to ask anymore questions.

[Tongus]

I just found this post and its both worrying and reassuring at the same time. I share some similarities and differences with those that have posted before: 5'11' 190lbs, 22 y/o, pretty good shape though the worst I've been in for a while. 2 years ago i was 8" in length and now it seems i've lost 1.5" and a considerable amount of girth. Interestingly, this has become most noticeable since I've STOPPED taking Propecia! Thats right; i'm one of the lucky few of us to start balding very young. In fact, until sept when i stopped taking it, i had been on Propecia for 6 years.

When i was first prescribed it, i was told the only possible side effect was acne and some sexual disfunction, which were never a problem, but i do remember noticing that my flaccid size was much smaller and more dense than normal. I also noticed an incredible range in erection size with little or no apparent cause. Since then, when drunk (once/mo for 1st 2yrs at college), I've been experiencing difficulty urinating accompanied with exceptional shrinkage, impotence, and pain in my right testicle (larger than the left, ultrasound came back clean). I've always chalked these problems up to some form of divine punishment for my vices hehehe. Lately, these symptoms have cropped up in day to day life, and the last time i had a drink was Christmas.

When i've spoken to doctors about this, they've consistently responded  with snide allusions to me being paranoid and 'worrying too much'. I also suffer quietly from depression and anxiety, which provides a convenient crutch for their suggestions. Interestingly, my psychological problems have always been frustrating to me because i have a very positive and active outlook on the world; they've always felt so forced and external.

It seems from what's been written, that a great deal of my symptoms could be related to hormonal trouble and i'll look into this, though i'll once again have to force my way through my reputation as a hypochondriac before I'll get any help from the doc.

Megazoid, could you explain the impact of propecia on DHT cycling in relation to penile shrinkage, and possibly shed some light on this 'rebound' reaction that appears to be happening to me? Also, your post's have been consistently well written and informative; some of the best writing I've seen on the web for years. Thanks for taking the time for the rest of us, we all appreciate it very much.

Also, aren't there inherent risks to taking exogenous androgens? eg. gynecomastia and forms of cancer?

I hope this topic isn't dead cause i could really use some help with this,

Thanks!

[megazoid]

Special thanks for the kind words Tongus. I try my best to help everyone where possible, sometimes i think my writing style is a little 'off' because i am either tired or my concentration isn't too hot (which estridol ironically has an effect on). So please stay with me and i will try to help you...

In true honesty this illness caused me to attempt suicide because nobody could give me any answers i needed a year or so ago, and much like you i was made to feel like an idiot by doctors and told i had depression. I lost everything; my family, friends, girlfriend and my will to live, but for some reason hope stood by my side and i kept fighting like i had from the first day i came into this world.

Having a cousin that is wheel chair ridden and on a constant oxygen supply for life made me appreciate what really is important (she was a world renowned dancer that lost her lung function when she was only 20). She didn't get a chance to experience life, she would never visit a pub, club or enjoy a walk by the beach with a partner. If she can overcome these boundaries i can overcome these. The only thing different is this is slightly more 'sensitive' because of the nature of it.

As much as i hate to say this Tongus, you have been subjected to one of the worlds most dangerous drugs and one that is known to cause secondary hypogonadism. Nobody in the medical world actually knows the true effects of this drug. But it obviously effects the conversation process between testosterone and DHT, either at enzyme level or by radically lowering T/Free T. Lowering DHT while on the drug lowers E2 at the same time (a similar effect to DIM but not as dangerous).

The reason everything got 'worse' when you came off was because your HPTA got locked into a negative state and your LH/FSH will be around 2 now most likely. This in turn has caused low testosterone (and low free t most likely) which have aggravated your symptoms such as penile shrinkage.

DHT effects the penile tissue as does E2. If E2 is raised getting an erection is difficult and your flaccid penis size would be reduced.

DHT is the hormone responsible for "all things male" and the development of secondary sexual charactistics throughout puberty. This includes penile development and muscle/tissue growth.

Difficulty urinating can be due to prostate enlargement which can be trigged by a rapid rise in E2 (and/or DHT). This could be a rebound effect of the drug (which effects DHT).

Alcholol has profound effects on all hormones. Including lower total testosterone and raising estridol (however, slightly more complex in men than women). Try to avoid this completely.

Testicular pain is a known side effect of propecia and one of the first warning signs of the drug. Testosterone and DHT effect N.O. production which effects the blood flow througout the body. This can effect the small blood vessels and can cause testicular pain. I believe this could be due to the effect on the small blood vessels or alternations in estridol (which effects sperm production).

At this stage you need to get a full hormone workout with the following labs run:

Total Testosterone
Free testosterone (or bioavailable)
Estridol
Free Estridol (if possible)
DHT
LH
FSH
Prolactin
SHBG

It's more dangerous to live with low testosterone levels than high. The risks involved far outway the risks of doing HRT.

The only time one should worry is when pre-existing cancer or gynecomastia is a problem. Even then, taking an AI (a drug used to control excess estridol production) is usually enough to control the gynecomastia.

Testosterone treatment does NOT cause cancer, no matter what you are told. If anything it prevents it by strengthening the immune system and helping with a faster recovery time.

Do you feel like you are suffering from symptoms of low testosterone with the exception of the penile shrinkage? Can you still get erections? Could you penetrate for example?

Feel free to ask any additional questions.

[Tongus]

Thats interesting about Propecia being linked to testicular pain. I usually am a total fanatic about understanding the pharmacology of the chemicals i ingest but for some reason i always tried to pretend i never even took the stuff. I always felt weak for taking it because, like you, i've seen many people cope with so much worse than going bald at a young age; i thought it was something i should be able to swallow so i just tried to forget about it. Like you, as well, there have been some really hard times (now, for instance) where everything seems to pile up, but in the interest of a brighter future i keep on keepin-on.

I'm going to call the doctors office tomorrow and get some tests scheduled - here in Canada its much easier to do than for those of you in the states, I'm sure. I also think theres some pretty comprehensive blood work from when i was still on the propecia, so it will be interesting to compare.

I'm multitasking at the moment trying to get some lab reports done for tomorrow (hideously boring enzyme kinetics assays), so i'm not read up on the testosterone deficiency stuff yet and not sure what all the symptoms are- i'll get caught up tomorrow. Generally, i have a relatively strong sex drive, but my equipment doesn't always cooperate accordingly. I can usually achieve an erection but i lose it without constant stimulation and often during intercourse. Morning wood is a rare thing for me, though i generally am much more full in the mornings (compared to the dense compact package later on in the day). I have trouble with sleeping and waking, emotional ups and downs which are rarely connected to anything of consequence, i sweat more than the average bloke and have generally clammy skin. In terms of my build, i have probably 5lbs of fat more than i would ideally, and i have noticed an asymmetry in the way my body puts on muscle mass when i work out (which i do fairly often).

Not sure whether or not that fits the bill. The above is by no means exhaustive, though, and it feels like i have an infinite list of things that are out-of-wack.

Something sorta off topic- in your readings did you come across any info regarding the physiology of the cold-stimulus induced shrinkage response? Its obviously nervous rather than endocrine, but the effect is apparently identical.  Any comments?

[LightningTomater]

Hi Megazoid, hope all is well. Hmm, I am both saddened and relieved to read your words of me having the strangest case ever. I honestly think that is what is going through my urologists head

[Anclerson]

Megazoid, I have a strange theory that I wanted to share with you as to the cause of my problems.  For two years I had been taking prescription paroxetine (Paxil) for depression. I stopped taking it about the middle of last summer.  I noticed about 2 months after that I was experiencing constipation. I knew that it had something to do with not being on Paxil anymore. It has since persisted and I am still having it. My question for you is: Is it possible that being on the Paxil long-term some how caused my body to acclimate to elevated levels of serotonin and not properly readjust once I discontinued it? Also, is there anyway this could have something to do with why my pituitary is not producing enough LH and FSH now?  I know this isn't necessarily your area of expertise, but figured I'd at least ask you and see what you think. Thanks.  

[erahman]

Hey guys. Here for some help on my problem as well. I use to be a very normal male in my late 20's and early 30's. No problems with erections, libido, or sexual intercourse. I then began having a strange problem in maintaining erections, my libido dropped to nothing, and sexual satisfaction was hard to achieve with my wife, do to this. This went on for about a year, until me and my wife split because of it. This was hard to take. I then went to a urologist for answers and help. He did blood work the results are:

LH--4.4  (reference range is 1.5-9.3)
FSH--6.4 reference range is 1.4-18.1)
total testoserone--320 ng/dl--extremely low for a 32 year old. normal should the in the 700-900 range.  
Prolactin---5.1 (reference range is 2.1--17.7).

Test revealed that for the most part my hypothalamus/pituitary are functioning normal. So I believe my problem to be with the testicles. I knew of the benefits of hcg and asked my urologist for this course of treatment. He sub-specializes in fertility treatment, so I thought he would agree. He basically told me that they dont treat at the clinic with hcg, and that hopefully my test levels will improve with time, after the stress had wore off. He mentioned TRT, which I dont want to do because it will probably exacerbate my symptoms. The problem is if my doctor wont prescribe me hcg, and novaldex, how do you get them. Is there away to get them without a prescription. I just need answers on were everybody is getting their prescriptions from, or is everybody;s doctor more abreast of these issues then mine. I would really like to get on HCG, and novaldex, but dont know were to go now. please help

[megazoid]

Sorry for the late response guys. I will be able to give a fuller reply to everyone tomorrow, i need some time to think about the paxil one properly but i have my theories on this.

erahman, you are new to the thread so i thought i would spend some time answering your questions.

You are not suffering from complete testicular failure but your LH/FSH are very, very slightly elevated above the normal range but by no means abnormal in this case.

Have you had any past history of testicular tramua, infections, varicocele/hernia or anything else that could have sparked your feelings towards testicular failure?

What is your height, weight and general health like? Can you give me a run down of your diet too please. It's possible your problem is simply elevated estridol.

I could give you a source to HCG but i can't post links or email addressees on this forum.

Generally HCG alone isn't enough to stimulate a high enough Total Testosterone level without using high dosages which risk leydig cell desensitization. It's best to use a combination of TRT + HCG to get all the benefits.

I am thinking myself about switching to test e injections at either 125/150mg a week plus HCG 2/3 times weekly to see how thing's improve with time. I am scheduled for a venogram + embolizational (coil based) in 2 weeks time and really hope i start to see some natural improvements after this one.

I would advise everyone to try taking ZMA (or 30mgs of Zinc) before bed and see how they feel the next morning/day. I would also advise some experimentation with DIM, which is a natural OTC suppliment with 'prescription-like' AI qualities. If you have an E2 problems this is good for testing.

[LightningTomater]

FYI - I too was prescribed paxil about 2 years ago, I only took it for 2 months, and then quit cold turkey. I had withdrawl (withdrawal) symptoms, and I really do believe until this day it has lowered my libido a little bit and possibly messed me up internally. Paxil is probably the worst medicine for ED - the reason I was given it - When it turns out I didn't even have ED then, just a few bad nights of sex...Be vary weary of the Doctors....I was prescribed unnecessary paxil, and then valtrex when I dont even have herpes, but the doctor "thought" i did, even though several blood tests said otherwise 2 weeks later...Just be wary of any perscription without a sound medical explanation and benefit, Dr's make $ from writing perscriptions.

[SOFTBALLS]

My blood test from 181 test too 585 ng/dl i am a man again.

I said i would post my blood test so hear it is for anyone wanting to see what nolvadex and arimedex does to your test levels 50 days on nolvadex and arimidex.

Feb 23
FSH 8.9 iu/l
LH 9.3 iu/l
TEST 20.3mnol/l  585ng/dl us measure.
SHGB 18
Prolactine 211mu/l 5.8 ng/ml
Estrogen 96 pmol/l 26 pg/ml
Progesterone 3.6 nmol/l 1.1 ngml

If you compair my first blood test before i started and this one i have prob added 10 years back on my life i have lost over 16lbs feel better in myself still no morning wood ? But i can have ex now with a solid hard on before i was not intrested. Good luck guys i have another BT in 2 weeks and will post reults as i am not taking the drugs no more if they fall i will take 500 iu of HCG every other day with nolva at 10 mg . I miss the morning wood.
Good luck.

[SOFTBALLS]

I would not take testorone or you will just shut your own production down do your home work or you will be in a worst state that you was originaly get blood tests before you even consider take'ing drugs . You will shut your HTPA down and you will be on HRT for the rest of your life. Go steroid dot com.

[Anclerson]

Megazoid, Have you given any thought to the effects of Paxil? Also, I have noticed that my testicles are now fluctuating in size substantially throughout the course of the day. Usually large in the morning and very small at night. Do you know what's causing this? Thanks.

[megazoid]

I haven't had a proper chance to think about the paxil issue but it has been noted "sometimes" drug's of this nature can cause prolactin fluctations and in some cases secondary hypogonadism.

Regarding the fluctuating testicular size, this is difficult to comment on. I am experiencing the exact same problem myself. I am putting mine down to varicocele but i DO know testosterone, DHT and E2 all effect blood flow to that area so it's a bit of a complex situation. T/DHT effect N.O. production which could cause blood flow alterations in that area. I remember you saying you had varicocele surgery also? Did you ever experience before the piturity issues?

I am hoping HCG will help restore testicular size/function after i get my second varicocele venogram + embolization.

[cjones84]

I am 22 and can relate to a lot of this. I once felt assured about most things "down there" so to speak but not now. I even feel I have had bowel problems that could be related.

I feel like my hormones have been taken away from me as ridiculous as it sounds. I just have such a lack of desire and weak erection that seems an effort to gain that isn't worth mentioning since PE is more than likely to kick in now. This is driving me mad because I don't know how to explain this to my GP and have no idea what has happened to me, it almost feels mysterious.

I am getting concerned it could be my prostate that has somehow become infected or something I am only 22 and now almost feel lifeless down below its driving me mad. I have recently tried taking saw palmetto and drinking lots of green tea and going with the 5 fruits and veg a day routine. It may have made my bowel movements more comfortable I still feel inadequate in most ways when it comes to the the thought of regaining a healthy sex life through getting and maintaing an erection and even having the desire in my labido to do so

Although discomfort after ejaculation has eased off along with the anal soreness I still feel my orgams have become weaker also. It is probably now because it doesn't take much to make it happen! I have been reading through the cleanprostate website and am considering
the sitz bath approach to try and fix myself up a bit if it is possible to cleanse the prostate then it has to be positive I would assume because it seems so complex I don't know where to start! One thing I am going to self-check is my PSA levels although I seem young to be checking it I will

I worry that it is my hormones effecting my flaccid general state its like it is trying to tell me something isn't right with my constitution. I am now starting on what will hopefully be a road to at least improvement. I have started consuming Avena Sativa (vigorex) that is supposed to free up testosterone in the body and promotes good mood with the combination of one 500mg of l'Arginine a day and have noticed the benefits in labido - I also keep China Brush for sex if I need it because it desensitises the penis for a long erection but doesn't feel very natural at all. Its just things like being at work or just in general and feeling like your penis has fell off doesn't do your confidence or self-esteem any good at all, I would assume I am having some major hormone imbalance. I don't know what to expect with the appearence of my limp penis for instance sometimes if im sitting down watching TV at home I might feel "hung again" its crazy!

It's almost like being "cut off" quite literally from the world. Walking around not having it fill your pants so to speak in your adult life is one of the worst things I can think of. I have tried to eat as healthy as possible etc but I can't help feeling cursed and know alcohol seems a negative thing now. I have had a blood test checking my general health including colon function etc and it came back ok but obviously its looking like I need my hormones checking by a urologist although its still hard to think I am going to have to tell my GP I am potentially impotent. I am thinking of starting with a home hormone self test kit to check my testosterone and estradiol to start with that will hopefully give me some indication of whats happening and I haven't gone completely mad over these past few years.

I am interested in maybe self-medicating also with DIM and ZMA for the time being but can I please have some specific product names from ritecare because I am still getting to grips with understanding my condition and how I can help myself feel better and have no experience with this. I looked on the Iherb website and seen a few products for DIM including one by nature's way who are usually reliable. Should I keep taking l'arginine aswell and Avena Sativa? I find this great because it is such a stimulant almost like a natural anti-depressant

[myspacegeek]

i am freaking out reading some of these symptoms....i have grown up from a young age feeling inadequate sexually and at 16 i was had a mental breakdown because i was sure i couldnt have kids. athletic physicals and store bought fertility tests assuaged my fears. i've always had a "tumor" like thing on my left testicle which seemed to grow as my testicle shrunk....i have come to realize that it is a varicocle and i am now developing one on my right side. i find myself not visually aroused like many of you and i am scared for my sex life once again. do these veins affect penis size? i have taken pills to increase penis size but to no avail. please help

[myspacegeek]

i forgot to mention i am now only 19

[megazoid]

OK Guy's, i've also had allot to deal with the past few weeks, alongisde the emotional bagage of dealing with hypogonadism. I will do my best to reply to the new posters and hopefully give some light in the situation.

myspacegeek:

If you develop a varicocele on one side (left for example) it can turn into a bi-laterial disease because of the hormonal inbalance it can trigger. So it's possible for both nut's to shrink/atrophy.

The testicular veins are in no way related to penile blood flow or vascular system. However they do effect penis size by effecting hormone secretion from the testicles. Technically speaking, yes, varicocele can cause penis shrinkage but not permanent (unless left for maybe 6+ years without 'monitoring' health, diet, estrogen intake, etc).

Usually getting the varicocele repaired yelds good results with regards to sperm improvements and testosterone are high.

I did become impotent from varicocele but this was reversed using proper HRT. You don't actually need your testicles to function (unless you are really worried about fertility).

However, getting the varicocele repaired (embolization is recommend over surgery imho) and using HCG alongside any kind of TRT (injections are best in most cases). I will be switching to Test E (125/150mg) weekly alongside HCG 2x weekly to promote testicular health improvements and fertility.

Store bough fertility test kits are inaccurate and shouldn't be used as a guage for sperm production. I have a friend who suffered from bi-laterial varicoceles (both testicles) from the age of 13 to 19. By the time he turned 19 he had full blown testicular failure (i.e. highely elevated LH/FSH). After getting the varicoceles repaired, within 3 months his sperm count went up to 3million from zero. Complete infertility is VERY rare. HCG almost 'always' works even for sevre primary hypogonadism suffers like him. It's used by body builders to regain testicular size/function in time for proper PCT.

I advise getting your hormone levels checked. Explain your sypmtoms to a doctor/GP or even better, a urologist. I have listed the required tests in the above threads.

cjones84:

In cases of varicocele, the bowel can put preasure on the abdominal floor which in turn causes disturbance of the testicular vein plexus. This dosen't happen with everyone but CAN happen. Have you checked yourself for testicular abnormalities like hernia, varicocele, infection, tramua (hard kick, etc), etc?

You need to get a full copy of all your blood work or get fresh blood work done with the tests listed above. This would give a much better idea of what's happening with you and your situation.

How is your lifestyle, diet, weight/height, etc? All these factors are VERY important in understanding this situation.

Prostate is possible but unlikely. Prostate problems are 'generally' caused by high estrogen intake or DHT distrubances. PSA isn't an accurate enough gauge to monitor this, ultrasound exam is better.

I would strongly avoid saw palmetto in all cases for prostate problems. This is a DHT inhibator (to a degree) though not as powerful as the likes of prescribes drugs like Proscar, etc. DHT is the most important hormone for sex drive, erection quality, etc. Messing with this can lead to all kind's of problems.

The anal pain and prostate problems could be co-linked with low testosterone or high estrogen. A common 'problem' with hormone problems is mucular atrophy in the prostate area which can cause pain for some during ejaculation and give the false impression of prostate aggrivation.

Do you have any other symptoms of testosterone problems? such as low energy, muscle/joint pains, tiredness, etc?

The ratio of T/E effects flaccid size. DHT also contributes to penile tissues. I feel it's important to get a full hormone work out (not a self-test kit) from a reputable lab. Salvia testing isn't accurate.

I don't disagree with you at all regarding your comment about being the worst thing ever, i fully agree. However there is hope and you will overcome this. If i can, you will.

TRT is the answer for me until my nut's for want of a better word, stop going nut's.

I would take one ZMA before bed but stay away from DIM until you have an accurate idea where your hormones are sitting. Low E2 is almost as bad as high E2, so be careful.

Take what suppliments you feel happy with, personally i would avoid l'Arginine because it dosen't have enough evidence to back it up and what evidence it does have claims more negative than positive (more so in high dosages).

Feel free to ask more questions.

[cjones84]

Thanks for that megazoid. I look forward to seeing your website when its up and going and appreciate your help on such a sensitive subject for men to deal with.

As far as I know my testicles feel ok and haven't suffered any trauma but I agree I definitely need the full blood workout to learn more on my condition and what to do next

The lifestyle question is ironic to my condition because I am what you could call an ideal weight for my size maybe a little lighter than I could be and I am physically active every day. I am a little paranoid about general health anyway so I eat good and consume plenty of fruit and veg. I also take a few supplements like garlic and fish oils to aid my general health

Thankyou for the heads up on saw palmetto I will definitely rule that out in future.

The testosterone problems listed are classic when applied to me I could tick almost every box in one of your previous posts for High Estrogen - feeling melancholic, rundown, unenthusiastic, irrational thoughts, antisocial, no dreams and no desire to work out etc etc. Its a nightmare! The only thing that hasn't changed is my erect penis size, I think that would be the last straw!

I would like to know more about obtaining Androgel if it is necessary. I have seen other testosterone boosting creams etc but don't know much about their quality. I have also read Tribulus Terestris  boosts your testosterone by increasing the LH levels in your system but don't know if this is beneficial to me. I don't know much about l'arginine except claims I read that it increases blood flow and prolongs erections by "pumping up the body's natural supply of nitric oxide"

The first thing I will do now is get some ZMA and try to get the full hormone check I need as soon as possible. Could it be that I have both low testosterone and high estrogen? Would high estrogen account for most shrinking symptoms and whats the best way to keep DHT in check?

Thanks for the help and knowledge it means a lot!

[megazoid]

No problem at all for the help, i will keep everyone posted on the progress of the website, i want to get my own health and mental state back to normal before going ahead with it however. Still feeling a little run down myself (not helped that i am back to work now).

Basically there are recepter 'sites' on your body which hormones bind to. Testosterone, DHT and Estridol all 'fight' (for lack of a better word) for these sites/cells. Usually if someone has high estridol (or total estrogens) and they lower this using something simple like armidex (the best drug and safest) the total testosterone and free testosterone is dramitcally improved (sometimes up 40/50%) just by lowering E2.

It's ironic because you seem to fit my own description of being very thin (maybe a little underweight) and of similar height/build. People with more body fat or people who are overweight have higher estrogen levels as fatty tissue generally causes higher estrogen levels. One of the reasons behind gynocoastia is estridol binding to the breast recepter sites in men for example causing tissue growth.

I would avoid all suppliments except ZMA or if you prefer, Zinc. 30/50mg daily of Zinc is a good alternative to ZMA and usually a little cheaper. This won't reduce the already available estrogen in the blood stream but will stop the aromitization at liver level for any new testosterone production that could potentially convert to estrogen.

Let me explain a theory:

If you have very very low SHBG due to whatever reason, this results in a high FREE estrogen level (can be tested with saliva test). The more testosterone secreted the lower SHBG would go, the higher free E2 went. This high free E2 displaced the Free Tetosterone binding to SHBG. Therefore even though I could have high total test levels, Free test was very low. This would explain the small flaccid size yet high total testosterone.

Normal adult sized testicles should be roughly between 1.5/2+ inches in size (length) and 1inch in width. They should appear normal with bumps, lumps, etc.

Your symptoms of low t could simply be high E2, this can replicate the same symptoms as low t. Try taking the ZMA/Zinc first and see how thing's progress or if you make any improvement. But be sure to get full blood work done and post the results here when you get them. I will help you find the answers.

I wouldn't jump onto androgel right away, i was the same build as you and all it did for me was raise E2/DHT but not total T so i continued to suffer all the symptoms of low t but flaccid size increased a bit.

Actually loosing erection size is rare but it can happen. This would generally only happen in the really long term though.

If you lower E2 you will free up more testosterone and DHT in the body which should improve your symptoms a little.

Nobody should need to suffer ANY of these symptoms when it can be easily treated. We are young guy's and deserve good healthy physical, mental and sexual life. It's about time we all took life by the balls and fixed this issue.

[megazoid]

No problem at all for the help, i will keep everyone posted on the progress of the website, i want to get my own health and mental state back to normal before going ahead with it however. Still feeling a little run down myself (not helped that i am back to work now).

Basically there are recepter 'sites' on your body which hormones bind to. Testosterone, DHT and Estridol all 'fight' (for lack of a better word) for these sites/cells. Usually if someone has high estridol (or total estrogens) and they lower this using something simple like armidex (the best drug and safest) the total testosterone and free testosterone is dramitcally improved (sometimes up 40/50%) just by lowering E2.

It's ironic because you seem to fit my own description of being very thin (maybe a little underweight) and of similar height/build. People with more body fat or people who are overweight have higher estrogen levels as fatty tissue generally causes higher estrogen levels. One of the reasons behind gynocoastia is estridol binding to the breast recepter sites in men for example causing tissue growth.

I would avoid all suppliments except ZMA or if you prefer, Zinc. 30/50mg daily of Zinc is a good alternative to ZMA and usually a little cheaper. This won't reduce the already available estrogen in the blood stream but will stop the aromitization at liver level for any new testosterone production that could potentially convert to estrogen.

Let me explain a theory:

If you have very very low SHBG due to whatever reason, this results in a high FREE estrogen level (can be tested with saliva test). The more testosterone secreted the lower SHBG would go, the higher free E2 went. This high free E2 displaced the Free Tetosterone binding to SHBG. Therefore even though I could have high total test levels, Free test was very low. This would explain the small flaccid size yet high total testosterone.

Normal adult sized testicles should be roughly between 1.5/2+ inches in size (length) and 1inch in width. They should appear normal with bumps, lumps, etc.

Your symptoms of low t could simply be high E2, this can replicate the same symptoms as low t. Try taking the ZMA/Zinc first and see how thing's progress or if you make any improvement. But be sure to get full blood work done and post the results here when you get them. I will help you find the answers.

I wouldn't jump onto androgel right away, i was the same build as you and all it did for me was raise E2/DHT but not total T so i continued to suffer all the symptoms of low t but flaccid size increased a bit.

Actually loosing erection size is rare but it can happen. This would generally only happen in the really long term though.

If you lower E2 you will free up more testosterone and DHT in the body which should improve your symptoms a little.

Nobody should need to suffer ANY of these symptoms when it can be easily treated. We are young guy's and deserve good healthy physical, mental and sexual life. It's about time we all took life by the balls and fixed this issue.

[Whassup]

Ok, here goes my story:

20 y/o college student, when I was in the fall of my sophomore year (1 1/2 years ago) I noticed decreasing feeling in my penis - fast forward to today, and I have no feeling, no libido, no morning wood, and I literally have this ache between my legs because it shrinks so much when flaccid that I can't feel my penis.

I have gone to have an MRI of my lower back (I have scoliosis) - nothing to see. I had a nerve test of some sort - likewise, hooked up to some nerve receptor things and everything looks great. Sounds perfect so far, but I still can't feel anything. I had a blood test of some sort, checking for Testosterone levels, and everything came back "OK" (I never saw the results)

What should I do now? I am literally in the best place to be in the world, can go to the hottest nightclubs on this planet, am great with girls, but I will never bring one back because of this little problem. Help me out...

[megazoid]

As much as i want to offer everyone personal advice, keep in mind i am also dealing with this and getting NO support from my family, friends, etc. I have lost everything because of this and sometimes i seriously consider suicide as an option at times too.

I am doing everything in my power to hold on for hope, but sometimes this simply fades because my whole life has been turned around.

Just because your doctor say's everything is "normal" dosen't mean it IS normal. Obviously you are suffering, so something must be wrong.

You need to obtain a copy of the lab results and post the results here. Scholosis can be caused by hormone definicey during puberty, maybe this problem has been long running.

Can you give me a description of your lifestyle, weight/height, body fat ratio, diet, alcholol intake, etc?

Do you have any other symptoms of low testosterone or high estridol?

[pmaule]

Wow.  I had no idea there were so many others that this was happening to.  Well, its been months since my original post.  Nothing has changed.  I went back to my urologist and he said, again, that's life.  Hormone levels (testosterone free & clear) as well as prolactin levels were in the normal.  Still feels like I have nothing in my pants when I walk around.  Still feel like **** every morning I wake up, but at least I am still waking up.  Alone.  

I'm thinking about heading to see a Johns Hopkins Urologist.  They were rated #1 recently by U.S. News & World Report.  Maybe I'll get some crabcakes while I'm down there.

If there are any persons in the Urological field who have any input on my symptoms listed in my original post, please advise.  I am living, but certainly not alive.

[Anclerson]

Pmaule, have you ever taken any SSRIs? If so, you may be experiencing Post SSRI Sexual Dysfunction. I was on Paxil for two years and didn't really experience much in the way of sexual side effects while on it other than retarded ejaculation which isn't so bad. A lot of people have it worse. However, about 3 months after discontinuing I got the same symptoms you have and had all the blood work and MRIs done only to find nothing. I almost lost hope and then decided to try taking Paxil again and see if it had anything to do with it.  At first nothing, but after about two weeks, I started seeing results. Morning wood is back, sensation is returning, flaccid size is better, libido is back, etc. I feel like after 3 weeks on Paxil I will be back to my old self again. SSRIs can alter gene expression. We don't even begin to fully understand the range of effects drugs of this nature can have on the human body.  They may relieve depression, but they alter lots of other things that don't need messing with. Though most people are only hurt sexually by being on SSRIs, it seems that my body/pituitary, for whatever reason, has become dependent on Paxil in order to function properly. I don't know if it would have ever gotten better on its own, but it's possible that I'll have to be on Paxil the rest of my life to properly function sexually.

[LightningTomater]

Hi megazoid. Hang in there buddy, we are all e-friends suffering similar situations. Maybe I'm not the strangest case you've heard of anymore? (Based on all the new postings). I finally got blood work done again, and this time he checked the estriadol levels.

FSH: 13
Estriadol: 26 pg/ml

From what I can tell, the FSH is still high, but the E levels aren't high like you had thought was causing my problems. If you get some time could you please give me some feedback on what could be going on? I appreciate it. Best of luck and continued success friend.

[megazoid]

Thanks for the support LT, some day's are certainly allot better than others. I guess i just need to hold on hope because i know this a treatable condition but result's don't happen over night. I did manage to have some great sex today with my girl which was good and upped my mood a bit (and her's). Erections aren't as full anymore and i always 'want' to get soft half way through. I am going to be modifying my HRT very soon and hoping for better results with Test E + HCG bi-weekly. The key is NOT high total t but good ratio between hormones, this is what effects the whole system.

Your E2 isn't high but the ideal range is 17-25 for a normal male. Did you get an SHBG check? With the exception of penis shrinakge you aren't showing any other symptoms (except libido/penis issues) of T definicey, so that's a good thing. Your total t also seem's very high which could cause problems (strange but true in this case). Let me explain:

If you have very very low SHBG due to whatever reason, this results in a high FREE estrogen level (can be tested with saliva test). The more testosterone secreted the lower SHBG would go, the higher free E2 went. This high free E2 displaced the Free Tetosterone binding to SHBG. Therefore even though I could have high total test levels, Free test was very low. This would explain the small flaccid size yet high total testosterone. This could cause penile sensativiy issues, ED and various other problems.

Because you are suffering from testicular dysfunction it's possible your testicles are secreting at abnormal peaks/valleys and causing 'spikes' in your steriod secretion. This could be due to collapising sperm production cells/tissue. Difficult to say without having an ultrasound done.

Are your testicles of normal adult size? Do they fluctate allot in size throughout the day? Have you noticed anything unusual with regards to temperature control?

[cjones84]

Another strange symptom I have found is my sperm has become almost acidic in "taste" at times that again makes me focus on the prostate as well as my hormones. I have been reading up that testosterone is converted into DHT by the enzyme 5-alpha reductase and an overactive DHT can cause prostate disease such as it enlarging as you get older. I know myself and others who have posted are relatively young but it may be something to keep in mind, I don't know. I have also read  Quercetin which is a plant-pigment flavonoid  can aid prostate and urinary infections. I would really have to fight through my own hypochondriac reputation with my GP to explain that and why its worrying me. I got some ZMA today while I am still waiting for a better product to be shipped to me, so it will hopefully provide me with some hormonal relief

Its good you got some sex out your system megazoid! I have been avoiding it with my ex girlfriend now as much as possible that can be depressing when I have to think of taking blue pills to preserve my male "ego" whatever that is now.

I am waiting on my saliva test kit to start with so I have something to back me up explaing this to the GP. It may give me some indicator of my estrogen/T levels. I understand what you are saying about high E2, maybe I could consider adding DIM after I know more to lower this and free up testosterone. Armidex  seems a little expensive are there any good alternative  DIM products?  

[myspacegeek]

megazoid thank you for your help...i think that it is a great thing how everyone is here supporting each other. i see where suicide almost seems good in some of our cases, but please lets hold on to hope and God and know that eventually everything will get better! i'm going to get my testosterone levels checked

[Yossarian]

Guys, such a relief to hear from people with similar problems to mine.  Below is a rambling summary of what I've been experiencing and how it has affected my life.

I've been thinking for some time of starting a website/blog (as a technophobe I dont realy know what a blog is but it seems popular!) where people can discuss this problem, identify similar factors and what, if anything, helps.

Cheers



Over the past 10 years or so I have noticed that my penis has been shrinking, or more specifically, getting thinner.  This has caused me a great deal of concern and have spent two spells on anti-depressants, which I can attribute to how this problem has affected me.  It has caused me many a sleepless night, led to panic attacks

I have sought out the advice of several doctors and urologists during this time how seem either disinterested, disbelieving or unable to explain what

[Anclerson]

Yossarian, I have the exact same problem you have and it's ruining my life. I thought it might have something to do with me being on Paxil before, so I tried taking it again.  After about a week, I saw improvement and thought I had finally found the cure. However, it appears it had just gotten better for unknown reasons that had nothing to do with Paxil.  It's now back to being shriveled and lifeless despite still being on Paxil. I have seen two urologists and an internal medicine doctor and none of them have been able to help me. I have had tons of blood work done and everything comes back normal. I'm seriously starting to think we have a new and unknown condition and that's why we are being told such nonsense as our problem is psychological. I used to drink and smoke weed occasionally, but don't anymore because of this.  Like you said, drugs exacerbate the shrinking. I too have experienced the itching sensation. I do have HPV (tho no warts). Not sure if there's a possible connection there. Most guys are asymptomatic.
Since my penis has shrunk, I have become incredibly insecure and even suicidal. My social life has gone to ****. I used to have a great sex life and now have none. I'm holding on for my family and friends in hopes that this can be cured.  

[megazoid]

Very intresting post.

It's important to remember that it IS hormones that control both flaccid, retracted, temputure control, blood flow and erection quality/capability. Hormones such as DHT/E2 control how 'elastic' the penile tissue is and how much blood flow s both flaccid and erect.

Urologists, GP's, Doctors and general medical staff are useless for dealing with this kind of issue. Urologist don't speak in this language (hormones) and you will only come out less satisfied than you went in.

I believe you when you tell me this isn't in your head, but urologists won't.  

You never mentioned anything about height, weight, build or if you are showing any signs of high estridol (check my above posts) or low testosterone. Have you had any hormone blood test's done? I have listed the required tests above.

How would you rate your libido/erection quality? Have you lost any erect size?

[Yossarian]

I've had my hormone level checked and doctors say everything is okay.

As for the other info I'm 5'11, 182lbs and 27 years old.

I can still get a decent hard on and the shrinking isn't as pronounced when erect although it's definitely different to how it was 10 years ago and I would say I'd lost about 2cm in girth.  It seems like I may be losing some length now as well, which is an unwelcome development.

Dude, I too have had suicidal thoughts about this but it isn't until you hear someone else say it that you realise how disproportionate a response it would be.

Whatever happens we will still enjoy a far higher quality of life than someone confined to a wheelchair say and together we can only get stronger.

That's if we let this thing, whatever it is, beat us.  Coming onto this site and hearing what people with similar problems have to say has given me renewed determination to find out what this thing is and beat the f*****.  Finally I can say "it's not just me, it's not all in my head".  You dont know how good that feels.  I was literally running home after work tonight to get online and see what had been added.

I too think this may be a new/undiagnosed condition which may have been brought about by environmental factors.  It may also be something which people have suffered from for years but were too embarrassed to seek help about.  It's only recently that guys have started speaking openly about their bodies, particulalrly their penises, and the anonymity offered by the Internet is a great thing sometimes.  Also, how many guys do you think might have visited their GP only to be told exactly the same as we heard- that the doctor knew of no such condition existing.

Whatever's going on let's get militant about it.  Let's get an online presence where others who may be suffering from the same affliction can turn.  Let's compare notes, give each other support and force medical authorities to take us seriously.  Let's not give up.

[megazoid]

Thanks for the reply, glad we can be of some support. It is nice to hear of people in a similar situation and i will definitelly be adding a section to my website for others to chat in the forum about this.

This isn't an "unknown illness" or mysterious disease, the problem is hormonally related without question. You are somewhat right then in what you are saying about enviromental changes and such causing this as most of our foods have at some stage been modified by hormones to make cow's fat, dairy products, chinese food with soy, etc.  The power of hormones is increadable and effects on every single cell, neurotransmitter in our body is equally powerful. Within a matter of day's or reducing or removing a hormone the effects set in.

Hormones effect everything from flaccid penis size, erection quality, sensation, penile fullness, etc. Even if a doctor tell's you everything is "normal" this isn't enough information to go with. Doctor's couldn't care less about you or your condition, they are doing a job like everyone else and just want to get through the day. If you fall between a range of 9-30 (for example) for total testosterone your considered normal, even though you are 1 point above the lowest range. Now a normal 70 year old man has a higher level than that (roughly 14.8nmol!).

A good example was a thread i found on a body building/testosterone forum where a guy on HRT (not a roid cycle) was noticing flaccid and erect 'gains' while on 150mg depo t a week for his HRT routine. This show's the true power of testosterone and the balance between T, Estridol and DHT.

You need to get the following blood work done to get a better picture of what's going on:

Total Testosterone
Free (or bioavailable) testosterone
LH
FSH
SHBG
DHT
E2
Prolactin
Total Estrogens

Once you have these, post up the results and we can take a look.

Do you regulary get morning erections and how powerful are they? Do you get spontainous erections allot?

[Yossarian]

I generally get more morning erections when I've not masturbated for a few days.  yeah, pretty firm although i would say not quite as thick as when I beat off.

Can I just ask what your background is, what your website is and for anywhere I might be able to read up more about these hormonal factors?

Also, how would I get these tests done?  Are they available on the NHS in the UK or would I need to get it done privately?

[megazoid]

Difficult to say without blood work.

I spent about a year studying, speaking with others, spending time on boards, etc gaining knowledge.

My website isn't live at present but will be soon. I will have allot of information on the above subjects and hormonally related issues.

Your GP probably won't run the tests without a more valid reason. You could say you are experiening ED or low libido and ask for them but he will probably just run the bare minimum. I in the UK also and not getting any help from the NHS.

Do a search for anti-aging clinics in the UK (i can't post links or they will get deleted i think). Either this or a good urologist who is willing to run the tests privatively.

Have you ever had testicular tramua (i.e. a hard kick), hernia or varicocele or any kind of infection? Are your testicles normal size (1.5/2inches in length)?

How would you rate your general health and libido? Do you think you are suffering from any other symtoms (symptoms) related to low testosterone?

[cjones84]

I can understand how bad this can be and hope we can come through it in our own individual cases. Some days I find it really hard to make any sense of life and if I can go on living like this. I now feel like I am existing rather than living to be honest.

I have been taking ZMA before bed each night and have felt a little bit of an improvement with my flaccid size because I am not completely "shrivelling off" but still don't feel right. I have no morning wood etc and still generally feel small and vacant down there. Most of the time I seem to find myself rubbing my penis just to remind myself something is there. The insecurity and self doubt is almost unbearable

I have got to see my GP about this next week, don't know where to start. I also have a DIM product here that says it promotes the "good estrogens" and inhibits the bad.

I really want my life back and hopefully I will get the medical help I need along the way

[megazoid]

I say this with no pleasure but it is good to deal with this issue alongside others. To be honest, i have made a good amount of progress on TRT. I will be moving to test cyp injections starting from next monday and i am feeling confident about seeing great improvements and getting my sex life back.

It does sometimes feel like NOTHING Is there, this happens rare with me now though. Without sounding crude, i have always been pretty decent in the penis department but the shrinkage can really effect your confidence allot. It does destroy your life, i do understand what you guy's are dealing with. The only difference for me was the fact i had a ton load of other symptoms alongside this such as joint pain, brain fog, low libido, dry skin, etc. All hormonally linked.

We all need to be strong and get through this. I say with no word of a lie that this IS treatable and full quality erections WILL come back. I have a beautiful girlfriend so i cannot allow this to destroy my relationship or sex life. It's that simple.

For me this is going to require an injection weekly (or bi-weekly), but this is really nothing when you think about it. My testicles don't work right so this is an easy thing to accept. The health benefits and normal libido/erections are the biggest bonus.

[cjones84]

What was that guy taking 150mg a week of that caused him gains? Thats incredible that testosterone would do that. Hopefully i will know more about getting my own hormones checked next week

[Yossarian]

"Have you ever had testicular tramua (i.e. a hard kick), hernia or varicocele or any kind of infection? Are your testicles normal size (1.5/2inches in length)?

How would you rate your general health and libido? Do you think you are suffering from any other symtoms (symptoms) related to low testosterone?"

A few kicks in the knackers playing football but nothing out of the usual I would say.  I do have a few cysts in the chord but they're relatively small and have never caused any problems.

General health isn't too bad and I'm as horny as they come!  


Someone furhter up the board suggested this might be something to do with the prostate.  I've often wondered this as old men can hold their water far better than I can.  I try to drink 2-3 litres of water a day at work but this has me running off for a pee every half hour or so.


Can i just say to everyone panicking about this not to do anything too hasty.  I've been forced to deal with this for over a decade now and have been through some unbelievable lows (turning up at my local hospital A&E department at 2am convinced I would be a eunuch in the morning for example) but at much as I f****** hate whatever this is I have to say that things have not got as bad as I had feared they would yet.  

[cjones84]

The following is an email I sent to the SDA and its the first I have heard of a "Endocrinologist" but they are supposed to specialise in all things hormones by the looks of things

My email:

Hi, I am 22 and have not felt right for some time now. I am almost "lifeless" down below like nothing is there and completely different to how I was. I almost feel like my hormones have been taken from me, if that sounds strange. I really don't know what has happened to me and am finding it hard to deal with life at the moment because of this. This obviously has me very confused and after reading through your website I think I may have developed a hormonal imbalance for whatever reason. I would like to know more about this as you say it is only in 3% of cases and I don't have much information on this condition and medical treatment options in general. Please help!

Reply:

There are few illnesses that can cause hormone imbalances- see hypogonadism

Nevertheless it is relatively easy to check you have an hormonal problem

[rudient]

Hey Yosarian sorry to hear your story,the penis shrinkage must be horrendous.I heard you earlier mention actionlove and the LoveDoctor.I'm familiar with that site and its theories.which are all based on chinese medicine.The Doctor is called Dr Linn and he has his own website too,selling Herb packages for extortionate prices.I have found his products slowly effective,and I mean slow,nowhere near the quickness of healing that his carefully selected testimonials would have you believe.For your case he would probably tell you that you have over masturbated and drained out neurotransmitters and hormones,needed for a healthy penis.And that once these things are bolstered,that your erection will revert back to its normal size.
    I myself am I'n a critical situation,all from over masturbation.Im able to achieve an erection only mometarily ,I have premature ejaculate immediately,leak semen in urine etc etc.My penis is completely lifeless,and feels sticky.I'm waiting for the day when it shrinks.Like your story about rushing to an A&E,I contemplated heading straight to the psychiatric Hospital and requesting to morphined for just about ever.

[Yossarian]

I wouldn't believe a word the guy says.  Dont get a complex about what he told you - it's more than likely nothing to do with over-masturbation.

[cjones84]

Megazoid you were right about being mistreated on this subject. The doctor was ok but I felt I was battling through a hypochondriac reputation when I mentioned hormones and agreed I may be having obsessive thoughts but am not dillusional. I was told how rare hormonal imbalances are and it is near impossible  but to show me everything is ok and it is more likely psychological, which I know it isn't he agreed on getting my Testosterone level checked. I am also getting a thyroid check for some reason in my blood test.

I don't know where to go from here or what results to expect even though I know I am not right if I get a "normal" T level. Could you name any anti ageing (aging) clinics etc that are here and how you can get anyone to listen that you need a full blood hormone workout and treatment for this because I can't imagine self medicating forever not really knowing the exact problems. I just don't want to give up hope

[vaiisking]

Hello everyone.

I am a 35 year old male with very similar circumstances myself. I'll give a short overview of my past situation.

I am a person extremely sensitive to all medications. When my doctor told me he suspected I had low T, he prescribed Testim to me and I took it without question immediately. The very morning I took it, I got all the following symptoms:
Severe Depression
Trembling/Shaking
Panic Attacks/Heart Pounding
Loss of Concentration
Insomnia
Hot Flashes
Lethargy
Suicidal thoughts

Before that, the only and I mean ONLY symptom I had was 50% erection quality. Then...all of those also.

I suspect that it interrupted my HPTA, due to the fact that I am so sensitive to meds. Does this sound possible? I mean can a 4 day stint of Testosterone disrupt the HPTA considering the subject may be very sensitive to it? Since that time, every doctor in the world says I have depression, but prior to that ( Im 35) I never in my life had any form of depression whatsoever. In fact, I've been the happiest person most of my contacts know, and Now I'm the most depressed. I am desperate to reverse what I know that medicine interrupted.

Please give any advice. Thanks.

P.S. I am considering ordering Clomid if I can't get any doctor to prescribe it to me. I don't know how to get it without a prescription, but I'm really at my ropes end with antidepressants...that's all they will prescribe me. I was on TRT for a short term...shots, then gels... I did not have good results, either was a great day or a terrible day. Now I am on nothing for two weeks and feel like ****, but at least its a consistent apathetic low and not rock bottom like some days on TRT.

The last diagnosis I got was secondary hypogonadism, but the doctor did no tests to make sure it was secondary and not primary.

On 11/29/06 I had test results like this:

LH 3.9
FSH 2.0
Testosterone 305

Then 10/18/06

LH 3.0
FSH 1.4
Testosterone 247

These numbers suggest I am secondary as they also did an MRI which resulted in a 'pituitary microadenoma' which the doctor said was probably there since birth.

If that is the case, I feel I have been low testosterone all my life. Higher voice, scarce body hair, larger breasts and abdominal fat most my life. If I were already bordering a fragile HPTA succeptable to High Estrogen, then the initial dose of Testim may have been highly converted to E2 and interrupted it.

I have found a site on yahoo called hypogonadism2 that has some files and has lots of useful information as well. I'm interested in trying to restart my HPTA and at least see how I react to Nolvadex and/or Clomid. Any thoughts?  

Chris

[Yossarian]

I know exactly what you mean mate.  Every doctor seems to cloud over and think "hypochondriac" as soon as you broach this subject with them.

Whilst I know this is undoubtedly happening (tape measure doesn't lie) the reception I've had from medical professionals has lead me to question whether its a psychological problem that's causing the problems.

I really want to establish a website dedicated to this problem but, having looked into the situation have decided that I know nowhere near enough about computers to be able to do it.

Any computer whizz kids out there?  I have some good ideas about what the site could feature and can provide text but when it comes to building a webpage I'm afraid there's no chance I could manage it.

We have to push things to find others out there who might've suffered/might still be suffering, how they cope dand to find out if anything worked for them.  Keep fighting it and we'll not lose hope.

[cjones84]

Hi Chris, thanks for the yahoo group dealing with this it looks a very good source of information. While I did a search I also came across bodybuilding[dot]com and on the forums there they have a Hormone Replacement Therapy section discussing much of the above with young and old alike needing TRT.

Yossarian I agree more people need to know about this because of the complex and negative image it can give you, not to mention the sense of unwanted mystery. I don't know how much a .com address is but there are sites such as cjb[dot]net that will let you let you register a name for free if you wish. You may have to ask around when it comes to hosting the site though because I don't know to much.

But a programme called Dreamweaver may help you with designing the site. Its mainly getting the information across and breaking it down for everyone to digest that is most important.

[NoNeedForAName]

I've been experiencing this kind of thing lately. At first I thought it was because of masturbating compulsivley but have started to realize that at the base of my penis it almost seems lifeless and its rare to get an erection from visual stimuli and when I do it isn't strong at all. If I go for a couple days without masturbating I can make myself get a strong erection but not nearly as easily as I used to be able to and it doesn't usually last long. I haven't had sex in a year allthough I have had offers that I always turn down now because of obvious problems.

My big problem is that I find myself caught between a rock and a hard place. I am only 21 years old and just got my first job that offers health insurance, the health insurance doesn't kick in untill June 1st and I feel that I need to act on this as soon as possible and feel like if I sit around and wait for 2 and a half months things can only get worse. Not to mention the fact that even if I did have the insurance right now I don't know that I would even have the courage to talk to a doctor about this problem because it would be embarrasing.

I don't know if this is a psychological problem or if it is a physical problem. But reading some of your guys' stories it seems simmilar. I do still have all sensation down there its just that an erection is very hard to achieve and if I even try to have sex with a woman it is harder to achieve an erection because of embarasment.

Another thing that is worth mentioning is the fact that I was recently in a relationship with a woman who was somewhat abusive in nature. I probaly got kicked in the balls by her once a day if I was lucky, most the time it was more than once a day.

Any advice you guys can give me would be appreciated. I feel like my life is on this big stand by because of this. I feel like if this problem is permenant then I wont be able to have a wife because no woman will want to stick around and then obviously wont be able to have children and I'll be alone and that is one thing that I wont be able to handle.

[vaiisking]

I can tell you that trauma to the testicles could cause secondary hypogonadism. When you go to the doctor, tell him about your symptoms and your girlfriend kicking you in the testicles. He will need to check your Free Total and % free to Total Testosterone at least to see where you are at. For your age, you should be around the 600ish range in my opinion. I am 35 and at about 386 without treatment and this is really considered low normal, but we all know is low. If the tests come back good, then consider that it may be psychological.

God Bless,
Chris

[megazoid]

This will be my second last post. I have made the decision to go ahead with my original suicide plan this weekend. I have tried everything and now i have complete ED, i've been on all forms of TRT and literally NOTHING has worked. I have lost my friends, girlfriend, confidence and will to live due to this hormone definiency. I stayed fighting for 9 months and i simply cannot take it any longer, i literally see no point in living anymore. It's time for me to go and hopefully end up in a better place and maybe somewhere where i can be happy. This illness has destroyed me and my body.

This is the first time i will not be talked out of this choice, i am sure many here understand the severity of this condition and how mentally effecting and emotionally effecting this can be. I told myself back on xmas day that if i was no further forward by feburary i would kill myself. I have tried once but got caught at last minute, so that screwed that plan up.

I will miss my family and friend's very much, but i will leave a note in the hope they understand my decision. My closest friend is aware of what i have been going through, so i hope he can explain this to my parents and other friend's.

Before i go i will answer every single person's question on this thread and give the fullest reply's i possibily can. I will also setup a forum/small website and hand over the moderation right's before i leave. So no need to worry about the complexity of setting up a website, i am capable of doing this myself.

I hope i have at least offered a bit of help and support to the few people here, no matter how much i think about this, i won't be changing my mind.

I hope one day you guy's figure out a suitable way of treating this, i have tried everything and failed, i was never meant to fix this.

[Yossarian]

I have always thought that the last thing that people who are going to commit suicide do is tell others about it.  I sincerely hope I am right.

DO NOT do anything rash - I have been living with a shrinking penis for 10 years.  Yes, i've been low, really f***** low so I know how this affects your mind but please, do not top yourself.

You say you hope your friends and family will understand but that doesn't mean it won't destroy their lives.

You say you weren't meant to beat this - how do you know?  Why not keep fighting, see other doctors, set up the website an help others?

We can get throught his together.

Put things in perspective (i know its hard in your current state of mind) a guy who is confined to a wheelchair has far less chance than you of getting action than you and he has a helluva lot more to deal with besides.

Please man, think about what you are saying/planning.

[vaiisking]

Megazoid,

I just came to this forum two days ago. A google search led me here and to your posts. Reading your comments and insight into this horrible syndrome, as best I can call it, is giving me new hope. Since August of 2005, I have been like this, which I believe is aquired secondary hypogonadism. The first week alone, they had to take me to the ER for suicide attempt. I have a brother in law who is a cop and I was going to kill myself with his gun. I know the despair and darkness that the condition puts on you. I also could not sleep a wink and this made it even worse. It is like your mind is in Hell. But...

With medication and a little counseling, I slowly got out of that, but not the ED, depression, lethargy, confusion, irregular heartbeat, insomnia, no motivation....all of it, man. I still have it. I went through a few months of trying TRT and had super peaks and valleys and now am on nothing with the hope I can restart my HPTA this week. If my doctor doesn't prescribe it, I am buying it online overseas. I also feel I am at the end of my rope, but I pray everyday for strength from God. I feel that I should have been dead almost two years ago now and that everyday is a blessing. I know this sounds cliche, but it is true. You have good and bad days, I can tell from your posts, as do I. There is always hope, there are always advances. Help me and these people here find those things and keep fighting. I have a wife and two kids to live for, but even if I didn't I have myself to live for. I'm sure you have a mental image of your life when you are healthy and well. Focus on that image and live to make it happen. This is what I have to do every day as I cry taking my shower with the mental depression and fog in my mind. But, I'm going to try everything there is under the sun...I even tried , and am still trying Sungazing ( suppposedly strengthens the pituitary ) And when all of them fail...I am going to try again.

You owe noone here nothing, but yourself. Your comments have helped people without hope. That is an honorable purpose. Stay and keep the work going. I'll pray for you. Pray for me.

God Bless,
Chris

[NoNeedForAName]

Alright, I know there has been some talk of hopelessness and suicide on this forum but just not even 2 days ago I fealt completley alone like I was the only person in the world who is like this. For all we know this could be mostly psychological. I don't think suicide is ever something that should be considered because you never know what you will miss out on.

Anyways, I think that it would be a good idea for us all to try to put this into a better perspective. What I mean by that is we could discuss certain evets etc that might have led up to this. For example, I have always fealt inferior to women since I got dumped out of my relationship 2 years back....if everyone in here has had some sort of traumatic experience like that then that would suggest that it might be psychological.

Another possibility is masturbation/ejaculation frequency. Perhaps there is a link between how much we ejaculate and this condition.

Perhaps the manner in how we masturbate effects us. What I mean by this is that to me I have always for some reason stretched out my legs really hard to intensify everything when I would masturbate...I don't know why it made things more intense but it just did. This started causing lower back pains for me, perhaps thats what is causing the problem.

I know that I have heard stories of men at war losing their penis and it was later saved, put on ice and surgically put back on and eventually it worked just fine...come on, if that kind of procedure can be a success then our condition is next to nothing. It's just a matter of finding a doctor who actually knows what hes talking about and actually gives a ****.

If indeed it is psychological, has anyone in here considered hypnosis? I don't normally like to bring up hokus pokus stuff but I know that hypnosis has gotten people to lose large ammounts of weight, quit smoking and get over any other imaginable psychological problem.

[Yossarian]

Agree 100%.  I've posted above about all the factors which I have thought could be contributory.

As far as masturbation goes I've always felt I gripped too hard - I often have problem ejaculating when I'm with a woman because it doesnt feel nearly so tight.

As far as the psychological factors goes I've always felt insecure because my penis is quite small flaccid, even though it is of average size when erect.

When I thought about creating a website I had in mind a survey which would ask a number of questions to try and determine any common factors.

[NoNeedForAName]

Well there already is 2 things we have in common, we masturbate in abnormal ways and we both have psychological problems. Perhaps some of us can only get hard when we jerk it (for lack of a better term) because we are so compulsive about masturbating. Think about it, if we're always fantasizing and masturbating then what good will visual stimulation do us? I am only 21 years old and have had this problem for a couple months now and this is the last thing in the world I want to have to worry about.

If anyone knows of any good doctors that actually knows what the hell their talking about then let me know. Im not one to give up I'll travel to the end of the world to see a doctor that can fix this.

[cjones84]

Please hang in there, before I found this place and your posts I had almost lost hope and thought that was it. I have had many sleepless nights and now realise there may be many of us with hormone troubles, young and old alike.

Wikipedia do a good section on Oat (Avena Sativa) in general and I would recommend taking it to boost your mood and labido while coping with this. It is one of the few if only "aphrodisiac type" suppliments registered with the FDA as a homeopathic drug under the name Vigorex Forte. I only had a brief experimentation with this because I was looking for any boost I could get and thought I was taking some herbal viagra at the time it was so effective and only took it when needed. I now know better and it is said the reason it works on labido so good is because it works by freeing up bound testosterone that gets stuck to various compounds of the body so you benefit from the Free Testosterone in the blood like you say that is very important for us all to function as we should. I found when taking this nearly all the symptoms of Low T eased off almost completely. I don't know how this effects hormone levels in the long term but it appears one of the safest suppliments out there to help people with symptoms of low T, ED etc while dealing with the stress of day to day life

I look forward to the website! Please try to keep positive

[NoNeedForAName]

Could you by chance post a link for this avena sativa that your refering to. I tried to do a wikipedia search on it and didn't really find anything on supplements that you can buy.

Also, I know its becoming more and more well known but Green Tea is amazing for ridding your body of basically everything toxic and could be a remedy to help stop this.

[cjones84]

Many companys are selling the avena sativa extract including Action Labs. They sell a very potent form of it. I would recommend getting Vigorex Forte because it is an approved homeopathic product that doesn't contain any substance that is harmful to ingest. Obviously avena sativa is still the active ingredient in this though.

Try vigorex4men[dot]com or just do a google search and you will see more than the one website

[cjones84]

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html - I would suggest reading through all of that to see what you need to check for, it is some reading and covers literally everything. Here are a few extracts

"Without adequate levels of free testosterone, the quality of a man's sex life is adversely affected and the genitals atrophy. When free testosterone is restored, positive changes can be expected in the structure and function of the sex organs. (It should be noted that sexual dysfunction can be caused by other factors unrelated to hormone imbalance. An example of such a factor is arteriosclerotic blockage of the penile arteries."

"Total testosterone is often measured instead of free testosterone, the bioavailable form. Some studies do not last long enough to show improvement. For instance, it may take six months to a year before the genital tissue fully recovers from atrophy caused by testosterone deficiency, and potency is restored.
Physicians urgently need to be educated about the benefits of testosterone and the delicate balance between androgens (testosterone) and estrogens. Each individual has his or her own pattern of hormone balance; this indicates that hormone replacement should be individualized and carefully monitored."

"Because of the highly controversial nature of this article, Life Extension has taken the unprecedented step of publishing more than 180 pages of scientific abstracts on our website that are numerically matched to the statements made in this article. This may be the first time for such a massive undertaking, and it reflects the urgent need to convey this information to skeptical physicians so that they will prescribe tes-tosterone and aromatase-inhibiting drugs to individuals whose blood tests indicate a need for these therapies."

After all the info I have now read I would recommend doubling DIM intake to combat excess estrogen 400mg  and keep with the zinc before bed and consume plenty of Vitamin E because this is flexible for you to consume at a high dose to appreciate all of its effects. I also read in that article that Nettle reduces SHBG's binding of free testosterone . Other things that may help are a flavonoid called chrysin (1000mg) along with piperine (10mg) that enables chrysin to be absorbed into the blood. Chrysin is a mild aromatase inhibitor. Also your 5 a day and green tea plus water can only help I would assume in keeping excess estrogen in check. I suggested Avena Sativa as a complimentary suppliment but Muira Puama is mentioned  in that article for possibly freeing testosterone and/or suppressing excess estrogen. I would say use whatever works for you

More interesting reading here - http://www.cabecahealth.com/PDF%20files/NutrInfluencesEstrogen.pdf   Check out the table detailing the effects of nutrition on estrogens on page 4

[NoNeedForAName]

Ok its been a couple days since i posted on here...I think my problem may be permanantly gone because I did take some steps to rectify the problem. My initial thought was that I wasnt going to return here again because it reflects a dark memmory for me but then I realized that I want to give you guys some advice that worked for me.

First things first. It is good to get if off of your mind. The more you think "I can't get an erection" while your trying to get an erection the more your not going to be able to get one. Stroking and attempting to get an erection for re-assurance is just ******* with yourself psychologically. What I mean by this is that we get an erection because we're sexualy excited. The more this condition weighs on your mind the less likely you are to get sexualy excited. I know its hard to just forget about it as you go through your daily routines because its something that weighs on your mind ALL DAY AND ALL NIGHT.

Start relaxing and loosen up. For example; If your at work don't stress so much over work. If you normally work your tail off in hopes of impressing your boss or getting out of there early try loosening up and working at a slower pace, it may not impress your boss as much and you may get out a little later but atleast you relaxed and perhaps enjoyed your time there more than usual.

If you masturbate frequently CUT DOWN. Theres no better way than releasing testesterone from your body than masturbating. And the main thing some of us suffer from in here is a lack of testosterone. Also, excessive masturbation I've learned can cause skin irritation on the penis and can cause loss of sensation, this I've noticed is really noticible when the bottom of the head of the penis is bright pink or red. DO NOT masturbate in ways that are unusual. For example; don't grip too tight, NEVER lay face down while masturbating, I read that a great percentage of men who lay face down when masturbating suffer from ED. Do it the normal way laying on your back with a loose grip and sex lube to prevent farther skin irritation from happening. And possibly the worst thing you can do to yourself is holding back your orgasms to prolong it. I used to do this everytime I masturbate and it seemed like after a while it was harder to reach orgasm. It was almost like my body was like "**** it, hes just gonna to deny this orgasm anyway." This can cause pain in your balls and clog your urethra and cause great pain.

Exercise Regularly. Theres no better way of getting testosterone than doing physical activities or sports.

My final piece of advice is to TALK TO SOMEONE ABOUT IT. I know this is hard to do because its an awkward topic and quite embarrasing to talk about. But believe me talking to someone about it takes a mountain of pressure off of your shoulders. And talking in a forum can never compare to actual verbal interaction with someone you know and care about. I live with my grandma, shes basically like my mom because I've lived with her my whole life. Just 2 days ago I mentioned to her that I need to see a doctor about something thats been weighing on my mind extremley. Long story short I told her about all of my conditions I've been experiencing and she said that I shouldnt have anythign to be concerned about because almost every man goes through some sort of stage where there not functioning properly and the sooner I make lifestyle changes and learn to forget about the problem, the sooner the problem will disapear. It's no different than when a woman convinces herself that she is pregnant and becomes so paranoid and convinced of it that she actually starts showing symptoms of being pregnant only to find out that she is indeed NOT pregnant. As long as you keep thinking about it and keep stressing over it the longer the problem is going to exist. It could last a few weeks or even a few years.

I hope that the advice that I have given has helped a little bit. If I helped inspire even one person than I feel like writing this has all been worth while. Of course this advice will not work for everyone, because some people do have a medical condition or injury that does require medical help. But for me it worked practically over night. I wish the best for everyone in here.

[Zebra11]

Dr. Megazoid:

You must be a Urologist or a very well informed patient !  Thanks for your messages.  I have a question for you.

I saw many advertisements on late night TV to " enlarge your penis ".  Do you know if any of them work, or are they just scams ?

Thanks

[NoNeedForAName]

I know you meant that question for megazoid but the products you hear about on tv are herbal supplements. Different peoples bodies react differently to herbs. So these products could possibly work for you and not work for me or vice versa. Allthough these products can work, the success of them are highly exagurated and do not typically produce as massive of results.

[canyouhelp]

Hello,
Glad I found this page.
I have done a web search and this is the closest to what has been bothering me.

Maybe you can help.

I am in my late 40's. about 5'8" 186lbs. I used to be really thin, but now slightly muscular (in the arms) but carry a lot of belly fat.
For a few years now, during the day I shrink to a point where I am constantly trying to adjust or having to actually reach into my pants and pull the foreskin back. I feel so shriveled and scrunched up that it is unbareable. making just walking a pain. It is almost painful.
People have started noticing me always "adjusting". It is driving me crazy.

Erections or sex are not a problem. Ejaculation though does sometimes, though rarely, seem week. Never was explosive.

The penis does appear to have lost some size (to me) when erect, but not much. The wife said she does not notice a change when erect.

This also happens when I first get into the car.

I have had several head injuries. What is the connection?
Also a henia and biopsy in upper inner thigh.

Can anyone help?
Vitimans?
Thanks

[canyouhelp]

p.s. Exertion seems to also bring this effect on.

[vaiisking]

The first thing to do is talk to your doctor and have a testosterone level done to see how that is. The ratio of testosterone to estradiol has a lot to do with the fullness of your penis. Before worrying, this is the first step.

[megazoid]

Guy's, just to let you all know i am still alive and very, very slowly getting better. My girlfriend has been good support throughout all of this and that has helped allot.

I will try to find time tomorrow to reply properly to all the new posters and answer some of the older questions, bare with me just now, been a rough ride.

If anyone has anything else to ask, please ask as soon as possible so i can reply at the one time.

[lovingwife]

Hello all
I am the wife of a 42yr old man with the problems that you are describing, I hope it doesn't offend anyone that I am following this thread, but I am looking for help.  My husband does have other strikes against him though.  He does suffer from diabetes type2 that he developed about 11yrs ago and high bloodpressure, both being treated with meds.  My husband is now off all insulin and only takes oral meds and he does have his diabetes controlled. His blood pressure is controlled with meds also Benicar and just recently I called his dr after reading that hydrochlorathyazide caused ED problems and he changed the other med to just lisinopril w/o the water pill.  Last yr we visited the urologist and he did some blood work and my husbands testosterone level was pretty low so he prescribed androgel pump.  We have tried all the erection drugs but they really don't work well. (cialis, viagra, levitra, caverject)  My husband has become very depressed over this and doesn't even initiate sex anymore for fear of failure.  His erections are not good when he has them and now he is not even ejaculating though he does feel the urge to, it just doesn't happen.  He does not get morning wood and his libido is non existant.  His muscle tone is also gone and he has bellyfat but they tell us this is from the diabetes that it causes this problem so they don't look any further. The dr acts like it's no big deal and that if he's depressed he just puts him on anti depressants, well he's only depressed with the sexual issues and if we could resolve that it would be better.  I finally called the dr. and told him about the BP medicine that he would change it as i had read that it caused ED or that my husband would just stop taking it and he changed it to something else.  I have called the urologist again and he says make an appointment and he would be happy to discuss the problem or give us samples, ok what those might be I have no idea since we have tried his samples.  My husband is not as persistant he just feels like this is the way he will have to live now and he is emabarrased to talk about it.  I want to know more about the DIN and ZMA is this something that we can obtain on our own. Please give me some insight on what to do and what to ask for when visiting the dr.  I might mention that he also suffers from shrinkage of the penis, he keeps saying it is just going away and he has a small scrotum (at least thats what the urologist said when he did his vasectomy).   Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!!!

[megazoid]

Sorry guy's i can't reply anymore. I need time to myself to get through this. Everyday i am content plating suicide and hopefully one day i will go ahead with it. There is literally no point being alive if i cannot enjoy it with my girlfriend or friends. This terrible, terrible illness has stripped me of my life, confidence and complete will to live.

I am sure other posters will be able to help the above people. Good luck everyone.

[smn]

i just read your last post- there are solutions to your problem- try to contact dr john crisler at allthingsmale.com. please do not give up even though you feel this is insurmountable, you are not alone-there are many others who have this same problem
by th way -have your estradiol levels ever been in the range of 17-30?

[vaiisking]

Hello,

I have used DIM from RiteCare Pharmacy at www.ritecare.com and I can tell you it works. I was on TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy) for a short time and can't seem to work well with it at this point. So, I deal with the emotional and physical issues that Megaziod is describing daily as well. A short list of what I deal with every day is:

Insomnia (have to take ambiencr every night)
Poor erections that don't last long (at least I can ejaculate if I hurry...within 5 mins or erection won't last and they are 'balloony' at best)
No motivation (lucky I can barely fake it at work)
Lethargy ( I 'sleep' in my car at my lunch everyday )
Poor concentration
Memory Loss
Depression ( I keep a daily mood chart and I've been what I consider above 'apathy' once in about 6 months )
Erratic Heartbeat ( for some reason it beats fast, as if I were scared...then slows down...all within about 1-2 mins...all day every day...morning is better than night )
Loss of muscle mass

DIM did seem to bring back erection quality and slightly improved mood, but even a slight improvement is paramount when you feel like I do. I noticed morning erections when on it and decent erections during sex. But as a side effect, at least for me, it caused what I call 'juicy ass' which seemed to be a slight anal discharge that irritated the area and caused me to have to visit the bathroom more than I was comfortable with. So, now I am back to dealing with everything best I can. I have been on:

Celexa
Seroquel
Prozac
Zoloft
Cymbalta
Remeron
Lexapro

None seem to help, in fact the freqency I have suicidal thoughts is more when on these. At least off of them, I am in a state of complete apathy...if it gets worse than this, I start thinking about not living.

On a positive note, I did find a doctor willing to help me try to restart my HPTA, which I feel is depressed due to the aforementioned TRT, but he can't write the prescription due to a lack of men being treated on SERMS in our area. (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators) They will initiate LH/FSH release that should spark more Testosterone production if I am truly secondary hypogonadic. This is my test to see. I found another way to get the Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) so, I am trying that as soon as I get my baseline levels back from the most recent visit.

My last levels were:

FSH 1.4 (1-12)
LH 3.0 (2-12)
Total Testosterone 247 (300-1000)

As you can see the FSH/LH levels are pretty low and Testosterone correspondingly. This suggests secondary hypogonadism, and hopefully with Nolvadex, I should be able to bring up my T without exogenous T (from outside the body) but by 'pushing' my testicles to make more. This 'loop' is kinda like a syphon of gas used on vehicles. Once you get the HPTA going, it sometimes keeps the momentum on its own if it had been depressed for a while as in the case of Anabolic Steroid abusers. They use Clomid/Nolvadex to do just what I am going to attempt.

God Bless,
Vaiisking

[vaiisking]

Megazoid,
Are you also megazoid at the meso boards?

[Yossarian]

Few days since I posted but here's an update.

My penis is definitely still getting thinner.  It seems to be constantly getting smaller and changing shape as if something is eating away at the tissue from the inside.  Something is causing the tissue to degenerate, whether this is hormonal, to do with blood circulation, a weird parasitic disease or something else entirely I'm not sure.

I'm still feeling the odd pain but it's not as bad as it has been.  What is really disconcerting is that my **** appear to be getting shorter now as well.  For 10 years I've consoled myself with the thought that whilst I may be getting thinner at least my length wasn't affected.  We'll just have to see what happens.

I'm currently taking pills loaded with calcium, zinc and vitamin E which a homeopathic practitioner gave me.  After a consultation he admitted he had never heard of a shrinking penis before but assured me he had the stuff to sort out whatever it is.  Basically, he was determined to sell me pills whatever I said but what the hell, I've nothing to lose and will try anything.

Based on the evidence of the first month they seem as useless as I imagined they would be.

I have resolved to help myself more by cutting out alcohol/weed/cigarettes, all of which have been suggested somewhere to contribute to shrinking penis.   I dont know how reliable this info is but none of the substances can be helping so it's time to see what abstinence brings.  i don't know if anyone else here has suffered from an addiction in the past but if you have you'll know how easier it sems to make coping with something like this.  Having to deal with it straight is petrifying and a large part of my problems over the years.

I'm awaiting an appointment with a Urologist which should finally happen in the next eight weeks (damn NHS) and want to present to him all the info I have collected.

I also want to receive all the tests possible to try and diagnose this thing or at least make people accept this is happening.  A saline erection is one but are there any scans/tests which I should ask about?

[megazoid]

Guy's, this is SERIOUSLY is a hormonal issue. I get the strance penis shape and bad blood flow at times too which make it "appear" like you are getting tissue loss. You don't actually GET tissue loss but you can get reduced penile tissue elasticity due to low hormones (specifically T, DHT and E2). Prolactin also has a degree of control in blood flow (prolactin is elevated after ejaculation/orgasm) thus limp ****.

You MUST (and i mean, MUST) request a full blood work out for your hormones. Look above in this thread for the full deal. Once you these, post them up and i will give feedback.

[Yossarian]

Hey man, I'm in no way meaning to dismiss the work you've done to try and find out what's happening to you but I don't think we should fixate solely on low testosterone.

It seems like one of the most likely causes but this thread has switched to being one about hormones rather than shrinking penises.  The two may well be linked but none of us know for definite what's causing our conditions because there's such a paucity of information and what little is available very often comes from parties with a vested interest.

For all we know we could be experiencing the same symptoms but different conditions could be causing them.

I have found your info about hormones very interesting reading and I'll certainly be speaking to the next urologist I see about it as well as asking for the tests you suggested.

Cheers man.

[samcat345]

Ok, i have had the same thing (shrinking, smaller testes, no sex drive or energy, ect) for the past 5 years and have just lived with it miserably i dont know how i have done it.

starting about 1 year ago, i found that when i reached an orgasm(if you can call it that its so weak and un-exiting) my body would begin to "rebuild" for the next few days and i would be stronger and bigger and have more penis girth.  then it would stay like that until my next orgasm, and when i wake up the next day i would notice that i felt bigger and looked better also.  
i have slowly been going through this process(testes are getting bigger but VERY SLOWLY) and i am beginning to get larger, harder erections.  i am slowly looking better and more "manly" and can tell i have more confidence due to what i am sure is more testosterone.

i am just wondering what could have caused this slow rehabilitaion because i changed nothing. (pituitary fixing itself or something?)

[Anclerson]

Hello all. I am a 21 year old male, and I have posted here several times before. I have secondary hypogonadism of unknown origin that is causing penis and testicular atrophy, low libido, abdominal fat, fatigue, and depression. My last test results were as follows:

FSH 1.2 (Range = 1-19)
LH 2.8 (Range = 2-11)
Total T 436 (Range = 240-950)
Free T 10.9 (Range = 9-30)

Since my levels weren't bad enough for the doc to treat me, I was wondering what you guys thought would be the best treatment option for me. I have run a course of nolvadex (20mg/day for a month) and experienced mild improvement (a couple of days the "goods" seemed restored). I never had any blood work done to check my levels while on the nolvadex however. Should I try taking HCG? Would this be the best treatment option? I don't want to take testosterone if I don't have to, I know my testicles are capable of doing the work. Would the HCG have long term results? How long could I be on it without desensitizing my HPTA? Are there any other prescriptions that I should try? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[vaiisking]

Hey Anclerson,

Most doctors will say that the optimal level for all of the feelings of well being and libido/erection prowess is a testosterone level around 600. I am in a similar boat as you. I have a lower level LH/FSH and low/normal Testosterone. I took Androgel for a bit...felt good, but then changed to shots and everything fell apart for me. When I tried to go back to gel, it wasn't the same and I felt that my HPTA was supressed. I'm curious...how did you get the Nolvadex script? I couldn't get my dr to prescribe it. I have similar symptoms. Have you had your E2 checked? A high Estradiol (E2) can cause the symptoms of low t and/or make them worse. I am dealing with those symptoms without testosterone for the time being to try to get my HPTA back naturally. However, I did take DIM, an estrogen suppressor that is OTC. It really seemed to help if only a slight bit.

[Anclerson]

Hey vaiisking, I also tried T gel (Androgel) and had about the same response to it as you had. Some improved days, some worse, all in all no better than not being on it. You say shots were even worse for you, that's what I was worried about too. I would like to avoid T replacement therapy altogether, if possible, so as not to suppress my HPTA. God knows it doesn't need that. As far as the Nolvadex, I didn't get a perscription from the doc. Doctors seem to not be much help for this condition. I bought the Nolvadex from a place online that sells meds perscription free. Got 60 10mg tabs for ~50 which isn't bad, but it took like 3 weeks to arrive because they come from India. You can find places where you can get it faster, but it will cost you more. My E2 level was 21 which is normal. However, megazoid suggested that he thinks I suffer from low SHGB (never had tested), which would make that a relatively high E2 level. I'm now out of the Nolvadex, but it didn't solve my problem anyways. It was still better than nothing tho. I will get my hands on some DIMM, but I already know that isn't going to solve my problems. Have you heard of any other drugs that are used to treat secondary hypogonadism? I'm curious to try HCG, but I am hesitant because I don't know if that could make matters worse after discontinuing. I've heard it can desensitize the HPTA, and that's the last thing I need. It also isn't cheap and I don't trust getting it illegally online.  

[vaiisking]

As far as HCG, it is analogous to LH, so the testis start producing testosterone if they are capable. The problem is that it suppresses HPTA as you said because the brain sees it as if you had LH in the system, therefore doesn't try to make its own. But, if your problem is pituitary...that may be a condition that you can't help anyways. Too much HCG can burn the testis too, so there is risk in that. Did you get LH levels tested when using the Nolva? Did it raise them? If not, then your testis probably aren't capable of making sufficient T. That is called a demand test...when you take either Nolva or Clomid and your testis make more T...means one of two things. There is either a problem in your pituitary/hypothalamus, or the HPTA is sluggish or severely depressed. Its a shot in the dark for me that mine is suppressed and Im really hoping that. But if I don't respond to this...I know for sure that it is pituitary and you can't really fix that other than exogenous T for life. I'll just have to deal and make the best of it if that is so.

Shots work for many, many ppl. And in fact, they worked on and off for me. Problem with shots is there is a spike of T then the slow decline. At least in the gels, there was more consistancy, but it didn't seem to work great. But, how I feel at present is almost as bad...its like you have to choose between the lesser of two evils.

Before doing anything permanent, find out for certain if you are primary or secondary. My dr wouldn't give me the demand test, so I am doing one myself. I hope within a month at least, Ill have better LH in my system. If I don't...I'll have to consider another TRT option :(

Which Indian ordering site did you use? I have looked at alldaychemist, and inhousedrugstore.

God Bless,
Chris

[Anclerson]

Thanks for the information man. I think I will contact my old pediatrician and see what he thinks. I have this strange feeling that being on Paxil has something to do with my problems. As for the site where I bought the Nolvadex, I used aclepsa .com. I may get some more again at some point and get my levels checked while on it. Maybe I needed to take more, or perhaps it is indeed my pituitary. I just didn't see much improvement on it. Anyways, good luck. I hope it works for you.

[megazoid]

I would like to propose a new research based discovery i made last night which could be my 'cure' to beating this illness.

I have narrowed my problem down to Total T and E2 ratio BUT also hypothyroidism (which mimics almost all the symptoms of low t). The endocrine system works as a complex mesh of interactions between hormones and when one part of the system is knocked out of balance it effects the others. When E2 is low, thyroid hormone tries to compete for Fixing one can sometimes fix the other (or at least improve it) but ultimately fixing the root cause is the main concern.

Take my situation for example:

I had a perfect hormone system at one stage. I got a varicocele on my testicle. Varicocele causes a combination of problems but the main one here is "over-heating" of the testicle. Since i had a varicocele that over-heated the whole testicle (the vein covered the whole thing on ultrasound scan) but thyroid altered to lower my body tempeture to keep sperm alive. My E2/T/DHT ratio were all effected which had a knock on effect on testicular blood flow. Due to poor blood flow and problems with cooling (due to varicocele) my testicle shrank in size. This in turn caused all the symptoms for me. Now thyroid itself controls metabolism, which effects all elastic tissues (or "connective tissues") such as joints, penis, etc. So when this altered it has a knock on effect on all body tissues and "could" cause penis shrinkage.

Thyroid hormone competes with other hormones such as T/E, etc. So it's all about the balance between hormones. Iodine definency can be one of the prime causes of high TSH. So it's wise to look into getting this checked too. Or at least start eating food's high in iodine such as yogart, strawberrys, etc.

Do you get cold hands and feet allot of the time? Do you have any other symptoms of hypothyroid such as dry skin?

I have spent a great deal of time studying this problem and i am willing to bet your T/E2 are out of balance for whatever reason (primary or secondary) and your TSH is somewhat elevated (i.e. 2+ like mine). It sound's possible that weed could have caused some problems and i know for a fact it CAN cause varicocele (even a sub-clinic level one would alter thyroid function due to temp control).

The good new's however is that HCG CAN work in fixing this problem because it stimulates (or down-regulates) thryoid function. I am starting HCG very soon and will keep you posted on my progress.

Do anyone here notice any fluctations in testicular size or blood flow to the scrotum/testicles?

Flaccid size is controlled mostly by ambient enviromental temperature and thyroid controls body temperature and fundamentally "blood flow" to the penis, scrotum, hands, feet, etc. Naturally all the other steriod hormones such as E2, T, DHT, etc have to be in balance too.

I am currently on TRT (injections) but still have problems with ED, etc. Problem is hypothyroid like symptoms are holding me back from making progress because ever since adding external T my TSH has went up and up. So i need to start using HCG to down regulate TSH to improve thyroid function and ultimately improve blood flow to my hands, feet, penis, testicles, etc.

So the problem might not entirely be Testosterone alone. Just some food for thought...

[lovingwife]

Thank you for the input I will look into getting some of the DIM.  What you are telling me you have matches my husband exactly.  He is on Androgel and I am making him use it regulary since he had stopped doing that.  My husband is a smoker and drinker and I am positive that is a big part of what is wrong with him.  Does anyone know after you stop drinking and smoking how long before seeing any improvement?  We have been dealing with this for a few yrs now pretty steady.  As I said before we have tried pills and caverject but those just don't do it.  Not sure how much damage he has suffered from the diabetes and all drs immediatly say nerve dammage from diabetes and won't consider anything else.  Thank you for the input, It is very much appreciated.  I will continue to check back for new posts.

Again thanks!!!!!

[vaiisking]

Megazoid is right on the money about the T/E2 ratio. It is a fine tuned balancing act, but those two have to be in as close to balance as possible or erections won't work properly. Some guys need the ratio a little higher than others for normal, but optimal E2 levels are reportedly from 20-30 ng/dl and Testosterone needs to be in at least the 600ish range. Once these levels are there, it should be a good foundation for quality erections provided there is no other problem. When taking my DIM, I used it at dinnertime to lessen the side effect I mentioned, and it seemed to help.

Chris

[staying positive]

Hello,

I am glad I found this site and I hope it will lead to some ideas as to solving this difficult problem. I am 32 and have been on meds for approx 2 years. I have been diagnosed bipolar and have been taking medication (Depakote ER 1000mg at night+Geodon 60mg at night and Geodon 60 mg in the morning). My shrinking, ED(not total, but nowhere near the pre-drug way), and low libido all stem from this medication, and it is my hope that my health care provider will continue to decrease my medication in an attempt to imporove my "side effects" (only real difficult one I have is the one that this site addresses). Anyone with any ideas or comments in regard to my situation would be greatly appreciated.
This **** ain't easy and I encourage everyone to keep a positive mindset! There has to be a solution.

[pmaule]

No, I have never been on SSRIs or any sort of anti-depressants.  They may help my state of mind now, because I am depressed, but they will not restore 'morning wood'.  

I'm sorry that your husband is having problems lovingwife.  I can tell you that going through something like this is utterly catastrophic to a mans psyche.  I literally don't feel like a man anymore.  When I walk around, I can't feel my penis.  It feels like there is nothing between my legs.  My legs themselves feel weak.  I can't concentrate.  I feel like an alien.

I hope you can stay with your husband.  Have you suggested an implant?

By the way, I have found that doctors do not believe you--they don't even want to really listen.  They have no vested interest a patients health, only to give you their opinion and get you to stop going to them, if that makes sense.  Tell your husband to keep at it, and that you are with him on this subject.  You have to try to rebuild his confidence.  

3 years ago I could go 3 times a night.  Now, it feels like I have no penis at all.  Life is a ***** huh?

[cjones84]

I feel you pain, I have so much understanding and empathy for people going through this, it can really drive you crazy and not in a good way.

No morning wood means it is not just psychological, no doubt about it. This condition really does suck up your mind I totally relate to the symptoms and think Megazoid has a point with Thyroid issues aswell effecting temperature and circulation when you walk around. For instance do you feel "hung" or more like your old self relaxing sitting down watching the TV in your front room?

I know what you mean with doctors but just play their game and don't mention the shrinkage. If you just focus on no labido and ED i.e. never getting morning wood etc they will have to start listening because this horrible condition doesn't seem to just go away

osteoporosis, heart attack, stroke,prostate cancer, sleep cycle being disturbed, immune system broken down (catching about 8 or 10 times the colds you normally do, accomanying prostatitis, prostate hypertrophy and resultant poor urine flow), bones and joints ache a lot, energy level, focus, concentration and mental sharpness deteriorating.

This can all result simply by having low testosterone, it is important to remember that this hormone is a mans best friend in nearly every way. Doctors who are not really tuned in with this accept much lower levels of it than they should.

[Yossarian]

Reading what you guys have written I'm wondering if I have the same condition as you.

I've often thought the problem is hormone-related, although I'm not ruling anything out until I get an answer to what is causing my shrinkage.  A lot of you seem to have erection problems and other symptoms related to low testosterone but this has never been an issue for me.

I have always been able to achieve an erection but it is the fact my penis has been getting thinner (and now a bit shorter) which has been my problem.  It may of course be that we are suffering from the same condition but it just manifests itself differently in different individuals.

I visite dthe homeopathic quack today and told him the pills he'd given me didn't work.  Surprise, surprise, quick as a flash he had more over-priced tablets for me to buy.  Because I'm so desperate I handed over the money and will take them as instructed but I'm not holding out much hope.

[AFOD2000]

Hi all,

I'm afraid I too have the same problems as is decribed in this thread.
There is something I wish to ask the other sufferers here however.
My penis has shrunk both when erect and when flacid. The morning erections have gone as have the feeling in my penis (pretty much)

The cause I believe was a anal vibrater that my girlfriend used on me. We used it 4 times in our lovemaking to spice things up and I first noticed the shrinkage during sex after the 4th time. It wasn't a huge vibrater and probaly penetrated me no more than 3 or 4 inches but I believe somehow the sex toy damaged some nerves or did some other damage.

I have been the uroligist, had the tests, all came back normal.

I was just wondering if anyone has also experianced anal stimulation or are aware that this could be a possible cause?

Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Many thanks
Adam.

[megazoid]

Adam, i doubt the sex toy could cause this kind of problem but i guess it cannot be out ruled. Do you get any kind of prostate pain?

Do you have any signs of varicocele, hernia, testicular problems, etc? Have you noticed testicular shrinkage (for example)?

Can you post your FULL results for me and i will try to help. Normal only mean's standard deviation, so not a good guide.

[AFOD2000]

Well I will need to phone my nhs doctor to get these stats. I will try and get them to you, I will also say that my bowel movements have become loose since the use of a vibrator and I have a swollen stomache. Mabe these are related? Also when I get sexually excited I get the overwhelming need to empty my bowls. It's very strange.

I don't know if it's linked? Maybe it is maybe it isnt but it all happened at the same time after the anal sex so I'm thinking it is.

I'm really sorry to read your messages on your down days. I am aware of the depression that this condition can being on however we need to put it in perspective. It's our penis that has shrunk a inch or two. Our lifes continue and this is not something we should consider killing ourselves over. We need to maybe accept our "new" sizes and use them the best we can?

I feel for you but lets not think about killing ourselves due to a few inches took off our penis's.

Adam

[Yossarian]

Adam,

What tests did they do for you?

I had artificial erection x-rays once to test for Peyronies.  They came back all clear and said I was of normal size.  I wanted to scream out and say, "I know that but I wont be soon unless you do something!"

[vaiisking]

I posted this on the meso board too, but the threads move there so fast, I was unsure if you had opportunity to see these labs I just got back. This is on no TRT whatsoever.

Labs done 2 weeks ago are as follows:

E2 51 (2-50) (high flag)
TSH 1.471 (0.350-5.500)
FSH 1.3 (1-12)
LH 4.1 (2-12)
Prolactin 6.2 (3-20)
Free Testosterone 130 (47-244)
%Free Testosterone 3.2 (1.6-2.9) (high flag)
Testosterone 412 (280-1070)
SHBG 12 (13-71) (low flag)
Dihydrotestosterone 413.9 (155-553)

Prime symptoms are always:
Depression
Motivation
Energy
Sleep

Most have been saying to get my E2 down, but DIM won't really get it down right? Just help the ratio a little? I have DIM, but no arimidex. My doctor might prescribe it if I keep at him.

God Bless,
Chris

[megazoid]

Guy's, just a little word to tell you i have nailed my problem down (for the most part) to thyroid so i am looking to fix this first. I ordered a thyroid salvia test panel + adrenals which should help me further breakdown what is going on here. It basically feel's like everything is 'washed-out' down below and poor blood flow.

I have a new regiem in place for TRT which "seems" to be working a bit but not great. I need to solve the testicular/thyroid problem first.

I did spend some time today working on the websites. I am aiming this website purely at mens health problems, because i couldn't find very specialized websites for this.

Chris, i will give you my input here, no problem.

As you probably already know. Your E2 is way out here. You need to bring this down to at least 30. By lowering E2 you will free up the receptors and increase your free testosterone level. Your LH 'might' also increase which in turn will raise your total t up.

All your symptoms are related to high E2 but also a 'slightly' (though not hugely)  out of ratio thyroid. I would strongly advise running a thyroid panel too.

You are neither secondary or primary. You simply have out of balance of hormones which could be fixed using armidex.

Maybe you should try zinc at 50mg instead for a few weeks to see how you get on?

[vaiisking]

I appreciate that input megazoid, but I'm going to start back on TRT tomorrow. The depression is going to cost me my job, family, life in general and while a rollercoaster...at least it will enable me to continue on for a while more trying to find out what exactly is wrong with me. Last time, I did a 2 month run on TRT and slowly tapered off resulting in the state that I am in now, but it seems my most recent short run on liqui-nolva has done something wrong to me. I had to stop it due to incredibly bad headaches after 5 days, and immediately crashed. My wife poured the vials out and I don't have any more and now am stuck feeling like Hell. I'm going to resume Androgel 5mgs/day for a few months to try to stablize again and slowly taper that off as I did before. I know this is a yo-yo for my HPTA, but I don't have a choice. I have been off work for a week due to crashing and can't miss another day.

God Bless,
Chris

[Colorado45]

I am 45 and this problem has been affecting me for 20 years. My penis can shrink to 1.5 inches. When I am erect I am 5.5 to 6 inches long. I would like to be 7 to 8 inches long.  I have a very difficult time getting erections. If I do not have stimuation I will loose it in 20 seconds. No erections from masturbation or visiual. Sensation is mostly gone. Fear of sex with wife. The fear of pulling down your pants and only have a penis that long is a major issue. It has mentally tore me up over my life. It has gotten to the point for me mentally that it is probably going to result in end of my 18 year marraige.

I have been researching the net on this issue for several years and the devestation that it has caused men is astounding. Between ED and small penis size many lifes have been turned upside down. depression, suicide, divorce like in my case and on and on. The medical world does not seem to be in touch with the mental severity of these conditions.

I believe that in my case that the mental embarrasment of my 1.5 had caused my ED. The fear of it being seen is intense. A couple of weeks ago I saw a Urologist and they took lots of blood to have all kinds of test done. I will be seeing him on Tuesday for the ultra sound and some shot in my penis. I will get my blood results then.

A lot you talk in terms that I do not understand. I don't even know the defination of lots of the words that you all talk about its all Greek to me.

My plans are to have my penis lenghtened and thickened by surgery that will put me back over 10k (divorce related). After years of something like this mentally tearing you down you finally get to a point where nothing will stop you from attempting to find the happiness and self esteem that has been lost. Some people never get it back and some take thier lives over it. I can relate to how they feel.

[megazoid]

Chris i am very concerned about you. We are both in similar situations except i don't have a wife too loose. I cannot imagine how you must feel right now.

I am not the biggest fan of research chemicals and wouldn't advise using the androgel because it most likely WILL bring your levels down lower. Your total T is low but your free t isn't "too" bad. You need to be careful here. What we are trying to avoid is shutdown.

I am also in an identical situation regarding work, family, etc. I am sacred of loosing everything but we must remain strong and beat this terrible, terrible illness. We will do this together.

Here is what i recommend. Try taking 50mg of Zinc a day. You can get zinc in tablet form from holland & barrat in the UK. It comes in 25mg tablets. Take 2 at dinner time. This will help reduce E2 when your body tries to make more T at night (while you are asleep).

Keep a few thing's in mind here. First off your DHT is high. DHT can LOWER total testosterone in the same way that E2 can. So you need to try and lower E2 first to too check for any improvements.

Armidex could really work wonder's in your situation.

With the exception of your symptoms, how bad is the shrinkage/ED for you?

[vaiisking]

My penis has always been small when flaccid. Usually about 1.5 inches and about 5-6 when erect. As far as ED, I can maintain about 50% erection for short intercourse session of about 5 mins or less at best. It is never as hard as it was around 2 years ago. Honestly, the penis issues are the least of my concerns at this point. Stable mood and energy is my prime concerns. I think I am going to fight off the androgel for as long as possible, but that may only be a day or so. I go back to work tomorrow and I have to be able to perform at any cost.

God Bless,
Chris

[WorriedYoungAdult]

Hello all,

I've been reading through this topic and understanding best I can. What I'm trying to do is figure out if this is what I have and the way I should go about trying to fix this. I guess I should start with my story.

I just recently turned 18 and have been having all kinds of odd health problems this year, tightness around my head (primarily the ear area) boils and I've noticed that I've been sweating excessively while not exerting myself or feeling very hot, like in the winter. The excessive sweating happens almost every day from everywhere but the face, even now in the summer I haven't noticed any sweat coming from my face but tons from my arms and buttocks. On two occasions, I have lost feeling in my penis, not complete feeling but a feeling of desensitization as described by some of the previous posters. When this happens, I don't notice it there hanging really, it feels like it can't randomly become aroused like before. I can still get an erection but must less frequent and it doesn't seem to be as 'full' as before, the head of the penis appears to not be getting any force from blood flow. Even when I am not erect my penis appears smaller than usual and I can no longer raise it as much using the muscle as I could before. I just recently turned 18, and while I'm still a virgin I feel I am going to miss out the prime of my life. Any help or guidance you guys could give would be greatly appreciated. I'm not even fully sure which tests to have done or what to say to my doctor, so far I've only done a blood test really.

[421]

what is your new trt regiem?did you start the hcg?what kind of dr are you seeing?i got dianosed with hopogonadism last year im 31 started to have problems when i was 27 went to a dr siad it was in my head .i did take some supplments seem to help than things got wost .i learned a little about t asked for the test dr thought that i was wasting my time my t was 211.he asked if i wanted to go on androgel. i did my t was 371 he said that was good (on 5g) asked if i should be on more he did not think so but he put me on 10g .i was seeing therapist who put me on lexpro started to see sideffets(testicular atropey) didnt know from which.stopped the lexpro and stoped androgel planning to see endocrinologist.not sure what started hypogonaadism.i did have pain in my left testis before i started the trt  for 3years dr siad that i was fine dont now?did not talk to me about hcg or what trt could do to me.out of the reading ive done i think that i might have a probiem with my thyroid .thanks for the info on allthingsmale its been some help didnt get all the test that dr john said to get  but im going to get them.it sucks when you have to be your own dr .think that its good that all of are trying to get answers dont end up like me not knowing for years . thars more to my story just a bad speller (any info on ? above) would like good info about hcg working! got to keep the balls.thanks

[victim]

That was a great help. I have been researching on this topic (Penis shrinage and PE Problem). I was not able to figure out what exactly causes shrinkage. I noticed that when i masturate, my penis looses it stiffness when it is limp. If i masturate more, it looses it stiffness to such and extent that i can almost touch my two finders when i squeese the penis. This condition automatically leads to reduced erection both in length and girth. We understand that even a friction of loss in penis may seem a lot because the whole lenth of it is not that much. Till now I was puttinng all the blame on masturbation which i extensvily did. I still think excessive masturbation can unblance the harmones level and can cause these symptoms (if your information is true which makes some sense to me). Stranglyl i never heard such a think before that the size of flacid penis is controlled by free testeteron etc. I also noticed that if i do not masturbate for a period of one month, my penis developed a SUDDEN tough tissue which means when i sqeesed my penis at that time, i felt SOMETHING. It felt that there is something in it. After every month i noticed this change. This lead to my oringinal increase penis size both in length and girth which ofcourse is very satisfying. The problem came when i masturbated and that's when i again lost the girth of my flacid penis (when squeezed). This is an extremly importana thing i discovered (and i am sure other too).  I must also tell you that because of masturbation my penis shrank so much that it is narrow at the base and normal at the top. This is quite disappointing. I would like to hear your thoughts on this. Thanks.

[staying positive]

I posted a comment on the 16th. Just trying to stay active in the discussion and see if anyone has any ideas/feedback for my situation.

THANKS!

[deleuze]

I have been reading this post very carefully.

A question for MEGAZOID:

I am a 24 year old male who up until recently had a very active, and well endowed penis. However, over the course of the past two weeks I have noticed a DEFINITE change in the size of my ERECT PENIS. I am aware that it is quite common for the unerect penis to change its size all the time (according to the weather, etc. etc.).

I am trying to wait another week before I really get scared.

But why would my erect penis size shrink? The length of my penis has remained the same but the WIDTH has shrunken. In fact, when I hold onto my erect penis it is noticably less thick, as if it "lost weight" (for lack of a better phrase).

Also, my ejaculations have been slightly thinner in quality, though not too much. Basically, my penis looks and feels like its weak. And again, I am referring to my ERECT penis. I can trace the symptoms back to an evening where I had oral sex performed on me. There was nothing overwhelmingly rough or abrasive about the oral sex though.

Basically all I want to know is if this sounds like something that can be restored back to normal. I dont mind taking medication or vitamins, I just want to know what to do.

Also, a quick note: I have gained some weight over the past six months and now have a little belly. Do you think this has something to do with it? An increase in estrogen? What can I take to reverse the effects?

This forum is amazing. I am glad I stumbled across it, im looking forward to a helpful response.

[deleuze]

Also, I wanted to add one additional thing which might have something to do with my problem.

Megzoid, I noticed that you mention estrogen as an ingredient in women's skin care. What about DIFFERIN? My dermatologist prescribed DIFFERIN to me a month ago for my skin, and I have been on it since. COULD THIS BE INCREASING MY ESTROGEN LEVEL AND CAUSING SOME THIS RECENT DYSFUNCTION? OR IS THIS UNLIKELY?

[Yossarian]

Hey man, I was suffering from shrinkage at your age too so I know how it feels when all your friends are out sleeping with anything with a pulse and you're worrying about a problem which you can't discuss with everyone.

I never experienced the desensitization so I can't comment on how that affects you physically but what I would say is to enjoy yourself as much as possible and not fixate on the problem if you can.

These are the best years of your life so if your equipment works then use it freely.  Don't stop seeking answers but but dont let it ruin your life or chances of getting laid whilst you can.

[megazoid]

Guy's, i've been getting asked allot of questions recently and i really want to help everyone where possible, i will try to find some time either tomorrow or the weekend to give fuller replys.

deleuze, i checked out that skin care product and with ANY drug/medication that treats acne, they usually alter androgens (Testosterone/Estrogen/Estridol, etc) to get the desired effect.

It's possible this has trigger either a rapid drop in E2 (Estridol) or caused a sluggish thyroid (hypothyroid) which could manifest as lowering libido, ed and penile shrinkage/lack of blood flow/etc.

I would advise stopping this medication and giving yourself a 2 week recovery time to see if your HPTA bounces back and balances out.

Usually the shrinkage dosen't effect erect size, but i have heard of penile tissue loss in males with low testosterone levels (usually below 500). Hypothyroidism can also manifest itself in a similar way as hypogonadism.

[421]

thought that this might be some help for some of you.this worked for me for a coulpe of years arginmax from gnc. this book has alot of info (the hardness factor) its about having a health unit i havent been taking any supplements or androgel becuse im going to get some more blood work done.this has changed my life use to partying alot ive quit drinking and smoking pot and girls till i can this right hope this can be some help.

[Yossarian]

Have you noticed any improvement since you stopped drinking and smoking weed?

I'm trying to do the same but I normally only last just over a week tops and when I get depressed about a lack of improvement I fall off the wagon.

I know a week isn't long to go straight and hope for the shrinking to stop and improvement to start taking place but I get so down and feel unable to cope without something to take my mind off of things.

If I felt that abstaining was definitely going to make a difference then I would manage to do it.

[421]

well i stoped becuse i have the same fear.i have the same thining you have .i do have hypogonadism.i started to noice that when i was partying that in the moring and when i was partying that the end of my peins thin and hurt more in the morning.alot of drinking,smoking,smoking pot but it was worst when i did coke.i dont know if you party as hard as i do.i still drink once a week to get drunk and smoke ciggs.ive quit smoking pot for 4 month and quit drinking evernight for 2 months. istill smoke and want to quit ive only been smoking for a couple of years i quit when i was 18.i dont notis the pain in the morning  and more wood at night.that book that i was talking about has alot of info.boold flo is what is one thing that seem to be a promlem.drinking takes alot out of you.dont know if you have gnc in uk this is a good supplement helps me i have not been taking since im going to get some blood work done.i used it eztense too and a multi-vitamin(natures plus for men this is what worked for me for years.i was sexual great.it was realy dum to start smoking ciggs agin.i think that its made my problem worst.sorry im a bad speller i hope that answerd some of your ?i do have some real ed problems so  whats going on with me might be diffrent than you my t is low and dont no why did you get your blood tests levels i did not see them.if you get them checked agin you should check out allthingsmale.com.i had mine done but my dr did not check alot of things for trt.so you might see what he said about his blood test that he runsive heard that alot of the drinking can raise E.agin if you have ? ill be around.  

[Anclerson]

Hello all. I recently got some more Nolvadex and started taking it (20mg/day).  I noticed that my symptoms (penile and testicular atrophy) worsened after three days of being on it. Is this just a coincidence, or can Nolvadex be the cause? I know it is suppose to raise T-levels, but could it worsen symptoms? Thanks.

[Anclerson]

Also, I will be trying HCG for the first time in a few weeks. I know the shots are once a week, but what dosage should I be using? Where is the best location for injecting if self-administering? Thanks guys.

PS If anyone has any success stories, it would be nice to hear one. This a terrible thing to live with, but it would be much easier if I knew things could return back to normal.

[Yossarian]

just had an idea from speaking to 421 about the effect of alcohol/drugs in making a penis shrink.

Are there any factors which people can think of which makes the shrinkage worse?

I would say there's a definite effect the next day if I've been drinking although I've found this mostly returns after a few days.

After a session at the gym I've often looked down and thought, "jesus, is it as bad as that?" and this does seem to have a permanent impact.

Anyone else noticed certain times/activities which appear to make the shrinkage worse?

[Anclerson]

For me, the following things will exacerbate my shrinking: being physically active (lifting, running), drinking alcohol, smoking weed, having sex/masturbating, and if I sleep more than 6hrs (strange I know). I haven't drank or smoked weed in 6 months now because of this. An MRI showed I have a cyst in my pineal gland. I was told it was no big deal and should be asymptomatic, but I know it is messing up my circadian rhythm. Sometimes I go a few days without sleep, sometimes I only sleep a few hours, sometimes I sleep up to 15hrs deep sleep with crazy and intense dreams (usually on the weekends if I don't have an alarm set). Obviously, this is not healthy. I never had any sleeping pattern problems before this condition. I'm starting to think that the cyst might have something to do with my shrinkage and low-T, although doctors I'm sure would dismiss that as a possibility. Unfortunately doctors don't know everything, and I'm beginning to think that our condition is something they don't fully understand yet. Although I know hormones levels are probably the main corporate, I think it's more complicated than that and our current medical knowledge doesn't understand it. Who knows, there could be neurotransmitters out of balance that we haven't even discovered yet! Most doctors won't treat us and/or think that we are suffering from a psychological problem because they don't understand our condition. Hell, if you google "shrinking penis" you find more articles about witch doctors in Africa or Asia casting spells on tribes to causes the mens genitals to shrink then anything similar to what we are experiencing. All I'm saying is that there is probably something more to it for most of us. I just wish doctors would accept that they don't know everything and at least try treating us instead of just dismissing us like their is nothing wrong. Just my 2c.

[421]

i do noitce the same thing that when i workout our i go hikeing when my heart starts pumping .are that something like i got a bite from a cat a little while ago in the hand  it bit to the bone and niotced  that my peinis had shrunk alot and in about 20min it was back normal agin.when i go hikeing it is a little diffretnt i start to bug me so much that i have to stop for a little bitt and get my bearth i hike at about 12,000ft.i dont rember that happing before i started to have ed our hypogonadism.that is one of the reason that i need to quit smoking mabe to little oxgen in blood.i saw a post about a guy that was having that probiem on this site i think that its page 4 or5 from a wife (shannonwooton)her man was haveing this problem and the doc said it was i his head but dont thik so since i have this to and it that you do to .421

[Yossarian]

It seems that drinking and weed definitely have an effect so we should avoid them at all costs.  If only it were that easy.

Anclerson, you mention cysts.  I have one in either sperm chord whicht he doctor told me not to worry about.  i first noticed them not long befor emy shrinkage started occuring.

But I mean, how do you go about avoiding exercise?  Stop leaving the house?

One thing which happened today which I'd like to share and see if it's typical of guys here.  Every so often I get a discharge from my penis.  It's not much but it's thick and white, not so different from semen.  I've reasoned that it's probably excess semen which was blocking the urethra but I've noticed that it's almost always preceeded by an unbearable itch which seems to come from within the penis itself.

[421]

it could be yeast (the drip).thay the doc never  check for that in guys .i had one for a long time but didnt have any driping but some burning  doc thought that had epididymitis.should try to find out whats going with you not sure how to check for that. saw uroligst three times and did not noitce the yeast had  to go to dermatoligis and he the found it on my skin.i  have cysts on testis little bit diffrtnt but wonder if thats part of my problem.the yeast was hard to get rid of it.

[Anclerson]

Yes, it is hard avoiding physical activity and probably not worth doing considering we are already unhealthy in a certain way. I still go for walks and do some push ups and pull ups to keep in shape, but don't go to the gym and work out like I used to. It's just so unenjoyable working out with your penis shriveled up.  Also, I simply can't justify caring about having a nice body if my **** is shriveled up. As I have said before, I'm in college and my social life has suffered considerably since I became like this. Not drinking hurts my college life enough by itself. Then you factor in how insecure and depressed I have become because of this and I just don't go out much anymore. I have started playing PC games pretty regularly to take my mind of things.  I find sitting at my desk for a couple hours usually improves things...slightly.

[Anclerson]

Yes, it is hard avoiding physical activity and probably not worth doing considering we are already unhealthy in a certain way. I still go for walks and do some push ups and pull ups to keep in shape, but don't go to the gym and work out like I used to. It's just so unenjoyable working out with your penis shriveled up.  Also, I simply can't justify caring about having a nice body if my **** is shriveled up. As I have said before, I'm in college and my social life has suffered considerably since I became like this. Not drinking hurts my college life enough by itself. Then you factor in how insecure and depressed I have become because of this, and I just don't go out much anymore. I have started playing PC games pretty regularly to take my mind of things.  I find sitting at my desk for a couple hours usually improves things...slightly.

[fryguy]

Hello everyone. I'm 26 years old and have been deling with this issue for five years. Testicular and penile atrophy. I've been diagonsed with low testosterone and have been receiving treatment for almost two years and erection problems for over four. I have not really seen any improvent. When soft I look very small, and while erect I've lost over 1 and a half inches in length.

Is this atrophy permanent at this point? Or will it return to normal once my hormones are normal?

[skyhawksatori]

Dear Megazoid,

This is my first post, and after reading the months of discussion threads, I want first to thank you for your courage and generosity in the face of your struggles.  No matter how much progress you achieve or don't achieve in terms of ED, the true measure of anyone's life is how much you are able to help the world -- and on this site you are a real godsend to many guys who share smilar struggles.  

I am 46 years old, with stubborn abdominal fat, and a history of "atypical hypogonadotropic hypogonadism", meaning that nobody has figure dout why my body doesn't produce sufficient T.   In recent months, my symptoms (poor erections and, even worse, considerable shrinkage in both flaccid and erect states) have worsened.  I recently resumed Androgel 5 mg/day and had a few very god days at the start, but that quickly went up in smoke.  My most recetn labs:

T: 485 ng/dl
free T (calculated by my urologist): 6.55 ng/dl = 65.5 pg/dl
bioavailable T (calculated by my urologist): 157 ng/dl
SHBG: 61.8nmo/L (10-73)
Estradiol: 29 pg/ml
LH: 1.7 mlU/ml (1-10)
FSH: 0.8 mlU/ml (1-9)

I take DIM to control Estradiol but the fatty abdomen persists -- remarkably and maybe even bizarrely, this persists even after recent liposuction!!  Is my estradiol too high or too low????

Also, what is HPTA? HCG? ZMA?

I am extremely alarmed about the shrinkage and the ED.  They are wreaking havoc in my life.  What do you make of my symptoms and of the labs?  I am currently working in South Korea and the medical care is far from thorough here.  I will have great difficulty getting further blood work done.

Thanks in advance for your help. And if you need to talk about your feelings, you've got people here who want to hear from you.

Best,

Skyhawk

[421]

not sure on ?but trt can cuse testicular atropey.ive been on trt for about ayear and have noitce that happing to me .i have read about hcg fixing that problem im planing on going in and talking to dr about it.good luck finding a answer.421

[fryguy]

I'm specificallt referring to the penile atrophy

[oki]

hi guys... i too can relate to all symptoms and good news i can offer some good advice

i took propecia for 1.5 yrs... suffered constipation/ibs and shrinkage and tightness and dull ache...awful... joined group for propeciaside effects and convinced myself it was all hormones... its NOT.

5ar is needed to convert allopregnolone to GABA the bodys natural valium... without it the pelvic area and its muscles go into spasm and prevent blood flow OUT of prostate so it swells up and balls and unit feels dead and tight

i read a "headache in the pelvis" and in last 3 months and Dr Walt Stoll's version of prostatitis re: bracing... since then i do the intrapelvic  massages and stretches  daily... until recently balls would be tight when i walk everyday now its improving adn morning wood :)

the muscles inside the pelvis needed to be healed as they are screwing up prostate blood flow... do not despair... i tried Andractim to Zithromax and evrything in between for 3.6 YEARS ! nearly topped myself then in last 3 months its been improving DAIly with no pills. just advice from the book etc... the method is called Standford protocol...will take time to recover but im its working... it was getting worse daily.. tight ass, itchy, sweating, constipation, tightness, aaargh was nightmare...

tap abck, im in uk if u need to text etc, hope this helps u guys, dont despair, in Dec/jan i was suicidal now  im 50% better in last 3 months... unit looks big and warm again...  

[oki]

by the way referring to discarge... i had this too... its like pre *** yes ? its prostatitic fluid...

[Yossarian]

Hey man,

Re: the discharge.  You know when you get a new bank card and its stuck to a piece of paper when it comes through the post (bear with me, I'm going somewhere!).  When you peel the card off there's a glue stuck to the back of the plastic, you know the stuff.  It's pliable and can be rolled around in your fingers?  Anyway, the discharge is remarkably similar to that stuff.

Re:  What you were saying about the prostate etc.  I'll definitely check it out along with the hormone info that Megazoid and others have provided - I've said befor ethat I'll try anything and am not ruling anything out as a cause.  Do you ever have trouble peeing?  My flow is not what it should be for a man of my age and sometimes it takes an age to begin (especially when I've been drinking or smoking weed).

I got a letter from the urology clinic I was refered to on 23 January telling me the maximum waiting time would be 18 weeks and they would contact me six weeks from appointment time.  As it's now around 14 weeks since I was added to the waiting list I phoned up today and was told it was likely to be another couple of months before I have an appointment.

Feckin NHS.

[oki]

nhs :) jokers

my discharge was more fluid... like thick pre ejac fluid

anyways take my word for it its prostatitis... NON bacterial. A DRE 9digital rectal exam) they may say its fine because it doesnt hurt when u push it (like when its bacterial)

check out the guys on chronicprostatitis.com their symptoms the same... even the twist at the base of penis and tightness etc... smooth muscle in pelvis is spastic (its in spasm) which is why u may feel worse from coffee or stress as this further increases smooth muscle tone..

also check out pelvicpainhelp.com for insight... the answer is intra pelvic massage (not fun but easy once u get used to it...takes 4 minutes per day) now urine stream is strong again and entire genital area more relaxed and warm and blood supply improved... literally 3.5 months ago i was really in living helll... hope this info helps u ... i took proscar ...same as u ?

anyways im in uk but please realise hormones bad due to bad flow to nuts... not vice versa... i tried every drug known to mankind since 1st aug 2003... nothing helped.... some helped erections but made pain and constipation worse thats when it became obvious it was prostate... i realised my hair was falling out again so 5ar production was fine so what had happened...now i understand my stress level has dropped from 9.5/10 to 2/10... i think within 6 months i will be 100% or close to it... each morning now i can take a **** without my balls dissappearing into my body cavity ! its smooth muscle spasm...chronic tension in pelvis creates inhospitable environment for blood vessels, nerve fibres, tendons and ligaments and all other symptoms follow (im quoting from Headache in the Pelvis: A New Understanding of Prostatitis and CPPS!)... its helping beyond words so wanted to pass this on as if someone had posted this info for me maybe i wouldnt have suffered so long, good luck ..
if u want to repay the favor sue Merck for every penny ;)

[santiago]

Hey oki, so you're saying if I buy some 5AR, buy this book "headache in the pelvis," Dr. Walt Stoll's version of prostititis, do those interpelvic massages and stretches, that Standford protocol, I'll be better in 3 months?  I've been suffering from those symptoms you've mentioned for a year now.  I'm sick of it.  It used to feel big and warm and now not so much.  Like overnight.  Will you send me any other information here on this post or at ***@****?  Can you break it down for me more specifically of how you've healed from all this? The suicidal thoughts have to go.  Please help me.  Thanks man.

[cjones84]

oki your symptoms with the constipation etc is interesting, you have to think of deficient thyroid hormones also that can cause all kinds of problems. I don't know how many people here could possibly have hyothyroidism just judging by tsh, mine was 2.5 which is quite high since the range is 0.3- 3.0. When checking thyroid they only check tsh on the nhs and not free t3 and t4 levels that are the actual hormones that the thyroid produces so there are a lot of people living miserable lives basically and being told everything is "normal" The worrying thing is people having to be their own doctor treating the awful symptoms of hypothyroidism and not the cause of the illness

I have noticed my penis is much fuller when I am sitting or lying down and shrinkage doesn't seem to occur much but during physical activity the atrophy can be ridiculous. I would assume this is due to blood flow,  body temperature etc but this could again be related to thyroid and the need for thyroid hormone replacement therapy. I don't know how much the pelvis massage and improved blood flow to the nuts could elevate these levels since thyroid seems to be active in every cell in the body. Did you suffer from symptoms like brain fog, difficulty concentrating and general fatigue?

[santiago]

I bought that "Headache in the pelvis" book. Will that teach how to do the intra-pelvic massage?  

[megazoid]

I plan on replying to all the new messages tomorrow, i appologise for the delay in getting answers to people.

I have made the decision myself to travel to america and see the world's best neuro-endocrinologists and personal friend of mine. These problems aren't purely sex hormone but also a complex 'mesh' between thyroid (hypothyroidism) and adrenals also.

I am going to be trying out this new derma sus product which works as a natural AI and effectively increases testosterone/LH output and helps thyroid. I will start a diary soon on medhelp with my findings. I plan on starting on monday.

Guy's, it's important to remember that i have a ton of symptoms and not just the shrinkage/ED. I have almost lost everything from my girlfriend, family and friend's due to this terrible illness. I think about suicide daily due to this and have now accepted i will need to live a life of impotence if the doctor in america can't help.

I have a few questions for you all which would be useful to get some answers too, some personal ones, but i am sure you don't mind talking about this now.

1) Can you explain the shrinkage to me? Does your penis go soft/lifeless and _feel like "nothing" is there (literally)? Does it look strange/shrunk up? Do you feel your penis is soft and rubbery (for lack of a better word)?

2) Can you still get "semis" (for example, going to the toilet) for example? Or is this even impossible now?

3) How difficult is it to get erections for you? Do you feel like you literally have to "push" the blood into your penis and force an erection into gear? Do you find it easy to maintain erections? Do you find it easier in a warm enviroment such as a shower for example?

4) Have you noticed any dry skin/penile atrophy "like" symptoms outside of the shrinkage? Such as dry foreskin, poor sensation, reduced erect size, etc?

5) I also get the strange penis shape (sometimes the "egg timer" look), is this what you also get when you speak of this?

6) You shouldn't really have low testosterone symptoms but it's possible you have hypothyroidism symptoms. Do you feel very cold all the time, depressed, bad skin, etc?

7) Do you notice any fluctations in your testicles? Do they pull up tight allot more do they feel "less full" or soft at times?

8) Did you notice any skin changes on your foreskin, scrotum, hands, face, etc?

9) Do you feel the "libido" is there but the equipment dosen't want to work?

10) Do you feel like your penis has came loose at the base and can move around allot more freely?

11) Have you noticed any changes in testicular size, constituency or scrotum skin texture, thickness, size, etc?

How do you feel viagra helps your symptoms?

Getting answers to these questions from everyone would be great. I have another set of questions in the coming few days.

[Anclerson]

Hey megazoid. Thanks for the post. Here are my following answers:

1) Penis shrinkage: feels lifeless, feels like nothing is there literally, looks shrunk-up, doesn't feel right.

2)Can usually still get semis, but not the same size as they were before.

3)Not very difficult to get an erection, but definitely harder than it used to be. Do not get morning wood. Do not get spontaneous erections. Erections smaller than before.

4)Reduced erect size for certain. Less sensation than before.

5)I don't think so, but not entirely sure what an egg timer looks like.

6) Still get depression. Paxil has helped, but still get depressed even on it. I have taken Paxil for many years and never gotten depressed while on it before I became like this. My skin is very dry...I get dandruff now. I get chapped lips easily. A lot of hair falls out when I rub my head now.

7) Testicles drastically fluctuate in size throughout the day. Sometimes how they used to be, sometimes very atrophied.

8) My skin is much drier everywhere. My lips are chapped and the bottom of my feet are very dried out.

9) My libido is much lower than it used to be. However it does come back every so often, and when it does the equipment still doesn't work like it used to.

10)No. I am experiencing constipation however.

11)Yes, testicles are often atrophied.

Viagra/Cialis has made it easier to obtain an erection, but my erections are still much smaller than they were before I became like this. They don't help with the flaccid shrinkage either.

[skyhawksatori]

I am happy that megazoid is going to see these highly regarded specialists.  I wish you much success in this.
As far as anclerson's answer's to megazoid's 11 questions, I could have written that reply myself, with the exceptions of #6 and #8 - I have no dry skin except for some dryness on the penis at times, and no depression or only some mild, brief, transient depression.  Four other symptoms/features that I have that were not mentioned in anclerson's reply:
1. my penis often appears very dark in shade, almost blue or purple at times
2. I have a very, very prominent vein running up the left side of my penis
3. One of my testicles hangs in a different position from the other -- a urologist once told me that was not a problem
4. There is a connecting "vein" or tube or something  (I think this is the thing that gets snipped in a vasectomy, but I'm not sure) between where my penis meets the scrotum for only one testicle -- the other testicle does not have this "vein" or "tube".

Also, I included my most recent labs (Oct 2006) in a post on May 1.

I hope this is helpful.  The differences between anclerson and I may help to decipher some of this, especially since I don't take Paxil and he does.  

[skyhawksatori]

one more question: how effective is gaining muscle mass through weightlifting as a means of increasing the body's natural production of testosterone?

[caniken]

hi guys.i also have the many symptoms you mentioned. but one other thing that i noticed is especially when i lie down i feel my penis a lot more.it feels more full. and doesnt seem to shrink a lot.when this disease first started i used to have pain on my right testicle when i masturbate.and the thing i noticed is when i take my legs up when it starts to get pain, the pains goes off so quickly.and i dont really think i lost any size on my penis. before this disease started, my hands used to get cold only like when i wash them with cold water.and in the cold weather but now my hands and feet are cold all the time.other thing i noticed is when i sit down i feel my organ more but when i lie down i feel it the most.and when i get up and walk i feel it just a little bit. i also have pain in the ass only when i go to toilet.it is so have my **** to get out(sorry i dont really know the suitable words in here to use..). and my other symptoms are now i sleep a lot more.before i sed to sleep like 8-9 houes.but now i can sleep even 12-13 hours a day.i feel tired.i have diffuculty on concentrating.i have foggy brain.ANOTHER important thing that i noticed lately is, when i go to pee, it comes out cloudy as well(there are sperm in my urine). it usually comes out at the early stages of peeing.And my problem with my pelvic started around the same time as this problem.PLEASE SOME ONE HELP>URGENTLY>I AM GOING CRAZZZZZZZy.....

[caniken]

do you guys notice your feet get cold when you go to bed( although they are ok just before lie down).because that is what's happening to me now.

[megazoid]

Thanks for the replies guys. It would be great to get answers from the newer posters too. I've been busy this weekend with work but i will reply asap to the new posters

[caniken]

i had some blood test done two weeks ago and results are:

Testosterone :  27.2 nmol/L (10.0- 28.0)
SH Binding Glob : 24 nmol/L (13-71 (Adult) )
Free Testosterone (Calculated) : 767 pmol/L (250-800)

The doctor said that my results are ok i also had an ulta sound of scrotum.
But if my results are ok so how do you i still have all this symptoms.

Megazoid,can you please explain me my results?
thank you again....

[megazoid]

Your results are perfect, your doctor was right about that, however you are still having problems which suggests the problem is elsewhere. Most likely with thyroid/adrenals. Even though my testosterone is low (around 20nmol on last check), my free t was low end of the scale and E2 low also suggesting thyroid. Your total t is at the top end of the range meaning that your testicles have no problems nor does your piturity gland. The normal for a guy in his twenties is around 23+nmol so you are at the top end of the range.

SHBG is mid range to low mid range which suggests your E2 might need to lower. I would recommend taking 50mg of Zinc ED at around dinner time. Try this for a few weeks to see how your symptoms improve.

Regarding the cloudy urine this was something i had myself when i got varicocele, varicocele causes testicular over-heating which eventually causes sperm to die off and be extracted via the prostate then urine stream (resulting in cloudy urine). It's actually a combination of prostate fluid and sperm most likely.

Have you had any testicular tramua, signs of varicocele/hernia, pain, etc?

I would advise getting a more in-depth hormone profile done. Get thyroid checked also to see if there is a problem here. If you get time, try to answer my latest questions as this could give me more guide into your situation.

[fryguy]

Is it at all possible to gain back my lost 1.5 inches in erect length? (See above Post) Looking for ideas and sugestions

[caniken]

thanks megazoid for your reply.
i have hernia at the moment and it started to give me pain since last december.
the thing i dont understand is sometimes when i masturbate, i feel pain usually bottom right side of my testicular and the it goes to right side as well.
i have many symptoms of the hormonal imbalance.
i have an appointment with a specialist doctor on sexual things tomorrow.hope he will help me out to solve this problem
other thing you mentioned about cloudy urine(varicosele), i have seen 4-5 differnt doctors and they all examined my penis and testicular and all said it is normal.
but throuh the day my shrinkage gets worse and worse.
at night night time it is just unbeliavably bad.i dont even feel it at all.
as you guys said when walk i feel absolutely nothing.and when lie down and took my legs up i feel great.i guess i feel the blood moving in my penis and testis.
I am also very desperate to find a solution for this illness.if i cant i will probabaly kill myself. It is already been 5 months. ANd it feels like It is been 5 YEARS so far.i cant go out i cant go to any friend s house as i feel like everybody looking at my organ.
This is the WORST THING that can happen to a male.I hope all get an answer if i find out the problem i ll post here so that everybody will know.
One more thing megazoid do you have problem when you go to toilet?
my shrinkage problem started around the same time as toilet problem.
Thanks again,..

[megazoid]

I want to help everyone here but i will probably not be around for long. I am in a severe depression and have suicidial urges everyday now because of this. I am fully impotent and have lost everything in life because of this illness. I have luckly found the least pain free form of suicide, so i can hopefully go ahead with this sometime soon.

Nobody will know how bad this is to a man, how bad it can destroy a person and ruin lifes. This illness is on the same scale as cancer, without question. I am not simply referring to shrinkage but actual hormonal problems such as hypogonadism and hypothyroidism. Both of which are terrible, terrible life destroying diseases. I am sick of dealing with this on my own, i am also sick of being alive and living a life as half a man (if i can even call myself a man now...). I've lost the two people i love most because of this and i swear the bitterness will consume me.

@fryguy

I can't say for sure, it's possible but if actual damage has occured (i.e. similar to peyronies) then getting size back will be difficult if not impossible. Is it purely length or also girth?

@caniken

Hernia could be disruspting the blood supply to the testicles thus effecting hormone secretion. It could also be causing thyroid issues which could 'aid' the hormone problems and shrinkage.

Never had any problems going to the toilet (no constipation nor problems urinating). What kind of symptoms are you having? I do occainsinly 'drip' urine now and again ever since developing this (probably due to atrophied muscles/ligiments for controlling urine outflow).

I hope you find the answers you need, this illness is terrible. Good luck!

Here are my replies

[caniken]

what does shrink mean in this case? is it like having a very soft penis ( like having only air in your penis)...??

[megazoid]

Think of the penis like a balloon. When your penis is flaccid it appears like a balloon out of gas.

Penile blood flow and scrotal sensation is a complex balance between each the hormones and neurotransmitters.

Testosterone helps improve blood flow through the penis. However, an excess may actually reduce blood flow. For example, testosterone can both increase and decrease blood pressure - depending on its relationship (e.g. ratio, activity, level, etc.) to other hormones such as estradiol and DHEA.

Estradiol plays a role in penile blood flow. Perhaps when estradiol is too high or too low - for the particular individual - flow is affected negatively. In some people, a good level may be 25. In others - particularly those with higher end testosterone levels - a level of 40-50 may be better. So long as a person isn't exhibiting signs of excess estrogen (e.g. gynecomastia, prostate enlargement), then the use of Arimidex to knock down estradiol may not be necessary.

Thyroid hormone plays a role. Blood flow may be reduced and the scrotum retracted when thyroid hormone is too low since one's metabolism and temperature may be lower. The scrotum retracts to help maintain the testes at a certain temperature - not too high, not too low - for sperm production.

High norepinephrine levels - such as in anxiety states - may reduce blood flow by constricting blood arteries in general.

Adrenal fatigue may reduce blood flow by causing the brain to produce more norepinephrine.

Excess serotonin may reduce blood flow and sensation - by reducing dopamine and sex drive, by numbing sensations - as it blocks the sensation of stress.

There are many relationships like this among the hormones and neurotransmitters.

All "normal labs" tells me is that the lab results are within 2 standard deviations from the mean for that particular lab - i.e. the labs are within their reference range.

However, "normal" labs may still indicate illness - depending on the skill one has in reading the labs.

For example, to me, the average/mean/normal TSH of 3.55 is actually a hypothyroid TSH. This is because the range has been skewed by so many people having hypothyroidism. If one assumes a totally healthy brain (a huge assumption - because it is often a wrong assumption made by endocrinologists - I'm a psychiatrist, I know), and look at a population with very little hypothyroidism, then the average/mean TSH is actually close to 1.0.

[WorriedYoungAdult]

Dear Megazoid,

Your loss of hope scares me. You seemed to be the only calm and composed one of us; the voice of reason. I'm worried that if someone with your knowledge and experience on the subject is losing hope then my chance at being rid of this awful disease is slim.

I'd also like to clear up something. To the man telling me to not let this get in the way of me getting laid, I wasn't as clear as I could have been. It's hard for this not to get in the way, my penis is either uncomfortable, unusable or shrunken to the point of embarassment. I can still get an erection but I feel like I have to use the muscle to constantly "pump" blood into the head or it shrivels.

My libido is also considerably lower and random erections/"morning wood" are non-existent. I wake in the morning without an erection but with a cold, wet feeling at my penis.

For some points of reference I have been sweating profusely from the arm pits and anus area and I have had inflated nipples and breast area, not to a big point (mainly just the nipple) I'm not sure how much that has to do with anything though, as my nipples have been this way since puberty, where as this penile problem has not.

Thanks.

[WorriedYoungAdult]

I forgot to add that when I use the muscle that use to "lift" and make my penis I guess "dance", "bow" or whatever you call it, unless in an erect state, now all it does is pull my penis in.

[misbolas]

I am 39 y/o and started taking vasotec to high blood pressure, from the day I started taking it I lost my sex drive, just the night before I was very hard, lasting more than an hour as usual, now I barely keep my erection 15 minuts and give up.   My main concern is the lost of sensitivity on my penis, my scrotum is now hanging all the way down and the worse thing is that breast appeared on my chest.  I work out 4 times a week, jogging every morning, I am athletic and considering to use tamoxifen (nolvadex) 10mg to revert the gynecomastia and recover from high strogen levels (wich I believe the problem is) I have lost all my fat from 20% to 13% but it remains fat on my belly and nipples, I hate my breast, it look like a teenager breast.  My urologist just prescribe me Levitra, it worked wonderful but my anger is that I WORKED VERY GOOD just to the minute i took the vasotec why do I have to fix what was working like a charm? now I am loosing length From 19cm to 17cm.  What do you think about the tamoxifen? would you agree with me? I do not want to be an oldman with ***** **** and hanging skin where once was a delicious penis.  Please help me!!!!! I am begging you.

[megazoid]

WorriedYoungAdult:

I am going to hang on for as long as possible, i am going todo everything to beat this disease and try to live a normal life. I have lost everything due to serious hormonal problems and it won't be long before i loose my mind and end it all. I will never out rule suicide as an option but i feel i would be leaving too much behind to even consider that, it's such a difficutl disease to live with that it's completely destroying who i am as a person.

I have a good job, release and produce music for various artists, develop and release software applications, have great friends and family and a decent social life (before all of this) and "had" a beautiful girlfriend (though she tell's me she is still 'there' for me, even now). I won't give up and i will try to be a carrier of information and knowledge for everyone here, i am putting my ball's on the line and going to say that THYROID has a huge role to play in this, more than anyone here can imagine in fact. It controls connective tissue (among other things) and metabolism, blood circulation, etc around the body and alongside E2 problems could cause serious ED. When a person is low on thyroid there body temp is usually cooler (noticable in hands, feet, penis/scrotum, etc) meaning weaker blood flow to the penis, testicles, etc. As i mentioned above a TSH of 1.0 is ideal, my own TSH is 2.5, thus the shrinkage, low libido and ED.

@misbolas

Blood preasure medication is known to cause Low libido and ED problems and is a common factor in people developing peyronies dieases (though i cannot remember if that's for high or low blood preasure). Weaker erections are part of this problem i believe alongside lack of morning erections, daily erections, etc.

Gyno can either be temporary or permentent, in most cases it's actually developed tissue that's nolva won't remove but if it's not been there long it might be worth trying a 2/4 week trial of nolva. However i will warn you (like above) that nolva is a serious drug and can have side effects including vision problems (which can be serious in some cases and never resolve). Nolva is a SERM  which will prevent E2 from binding and progressing the gyno but dosen't always remove it.

You need to find out WHY you have high E2 and my bet is going to be thyroid. Blood preasure medications must alter thyroid in some way and cause a down regulation which causes E2 to bind to the same receptor sites thus a surge in estridol/E2 and gyno as a result (not to mention penile shrinkage and ED problems).

You need to get a full hormone blood profile done to see what's going on here, if possible look into alternative (and natural) ways to reduce blood preasure and come off that medication.

Blood pressure and pain medications are both known to lower testosterone and possibly effect the HPTA someway.

Guy's, if possible please answer the questions above if you haven't already. Thanks!

[misbolas]

I have taken my second Nolva dosage of 10mg.  my scrotum is now not hanging loose as before and my penis was a little more alive this morning, I hope is not a mind game fooling me.  Also the sensitivity of my penis is ligth but present, I am more aware it is alive and hanging on my crotch.   Last night I noted the skin around my belly button was tighter than normal, usually it is very loose at night, depending on how much water I drank along the day.  Yesterday  I drank 3liters of water as usual but the skin on this area is firmer than usual.  As for my breast it is still teen girl like (Oh god, how I hate it!).  I haven't measured my sexual performance yet but let see this weekend how far do I go.  I will keep you updated.

[willc06]

I'm a 38 year old male who has had ED and/or trouble with erections my entire adult life. I have used viagra (100mg) to some success but still often need oral stimulation to achieve a sufficient erection.

My penis just seems smaller than when I was younger, also, I've been having increasingly diminished sensations on the head of the penis since my early 20's. I'll put it this way, my last girlfriend had a tongue ring and when she was giving oral sex I couldn't tell. However, with viagra on a few occasions and one time without I was able to have decent sexual intercourse.

I've experienced mood issues, depression/anxiety, skin blotches/redness, joint and muscle pain for many years now off and on.

I was always told up til 2005 that the ED was psychological, however, a urologist that year noted I had testicles "half normal size" and believed it was a hormonal issue, possibly requiring Testosterone replacement. I saw an endocrinolgist in spring 2006 who said I should do a biopsy of my testicles to check for tissue or other damage.

I've traditionally had elevated FSH levels but most other scores all have been normal until recently, March 2007, where both FSH and LH scored "High". I've posted results below.

I saw doctors at the Mayo clinic in the fall of 2006 and though they noted my testicles were "smallish" they said they weren't as small as noted earlier by the urologist. A ultrasound of blood flow was good by the Mayo urologist, the endocrinologist said just "freeze your sperm" if you want kids ... I had a low sperm count but things still looked ok. The endocrinologist basically said everything was ok except for the high FSH. One of the conclusions/diagnosis was listed as partial testicular germ compartment failure due to sertoli cell function issues.

My lab results from Mayo in Fall 2006 were:
Total Testosterone: 480
Testosterone, Bioavail: 168
Prolactin: 8 ng/mL
LH: 7
FSH: 25

My Lab results from March 2007 were:
Testosterone: 18.7 nmol/L - reference range 7.3-23.5
Testosterone Free: 45 PMOL/L - reference range 31-94
DHEA-S: 5.3 umol/L - reference range 3.3-14
FSH: 17 (high) - reference range 2-8
LH: 9 (high) - reference range 2-6
Estradiol-17 beta: <100 - reference range up to 206
Prolactin: 6 - reference range 2-18
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin: 26 NMOL/L - reference range 13-71

I really need to get a handle on this. I've found Doctors to be usually very dismissive or either totally perplexed by my "condition" which again does not help me get the answers I need. I lost my marriage because of this condition and have suffered greatly from self-esteem and confidence issues, not to mention just having quality of life affected. I want to have an opportunity for another relationship but I need to get a handle on this situation. Any help would be greatly appreciated.