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Shrnking penis (II)
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Shrnking penis (II)

Restarting the shrinking penis thread that reached the maximum number of posts further down the board.

Penis continues to get thinner and be painful.  

Anyone got any developments, good or otherwise, to report?
Tags: penis, Health
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Avatar_n_tn
I will be seeing a top hormone doctor next week in the states regarding my on going struggles. I will update everyone on the progress.

Can you explain what you mean by getting "thinner" and the pain? Where does the pain come from and what is it like? I do get testicular pain now and again due to the varicocele and sometimes tingling in the penis head/glans which can be painful at times.
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Avatar_n_tn
is there really such thing? (no other meaning intended, just asking) how come?
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Avatar_n_tn
Hi again,

I'm still suffering with this condition.
I belive it started when my girlfriend penetrated me with a vibrating anal sex toy.
I believe I have done some damage either physical damage to my bowl or prostrate or altered my testosterone production causing my penis to shrink.

I also have noticed I am losing my hair also. Could this be down to low testosterone levels?

I also has a swollen stomahe and IBS. All caused from some harmless sex play.

Doctors have been so far no help but I am going back shortly. I beleve it's getting worse.


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Avatar_m_tn
Megazoid, the best I can explain it is that it's like a slowly-deflating balloon, or that my penis is wasting away.

The circumference is around 2cm less than it was about 10 years ago and lately it's seemed like the length is shrinking too, which really freaks me out.

I experience short, sharp shooting pains in the penis most day as well as a dull ache from time to time.  I also have a painful itching sensation from within the penis itself.

To the guy who questioned whether or not this could happen - you aint alone in being skeptical man.  The original topic saw several people report they've suffered similar problems but that every doctor they've spoken to have dismissed thier concerns and said this simply couldn't happen.

That's certainly been my experience as three Urologists have told me they can think of no reason why this would be happening.
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Avatar_n_tn
Megazoid,
Are you referring to Dr. Crisler? If so, I plan to see him pending the results from the MRI I am having tomorrow. 7 months ago there was a pituitary micro adenoma found measuring 5.0 X 8.0 CM. This is a follow up to see if it has grown.

Since last I talked to you, I severely crashed after trying my liquid-nolvadex run for a week, which resulted in a rock bottom depression and suicide attempt. I don't want to elict responses of how bad it is to do that...I know, but it's hard for people to understand how it feels and what you go through. Thank God, my wife found me soon after I had injested the pills. I was put in a behavioral health hospital for 2 weeks and have since been discharged with a mood barely above that rock bottom. My life is a living Hell as well and it is damn hard to deal with as you know. I'm not sure why the Nolva run crashed me as it did...but can only speculate that using 50mg/day for a week and suddenly quitting revved up LH production and then dropped bottom wrecking havoc to my HPTA. Not sure, but it definitely did me in. It is only now (1 month) that I'm beginning to return slowly back to normal (the old less than adequate normal)

God Bless,
Chris
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Avatar_n_tn
Firstly I am glad this discussion is still open, we all need to get to the bottom of this horrible disorder, I still don't know what can actually make the penis shrink SO BAD that it feels like it is wasting away, we are all young men and deserve to know exactly what it is. it just isn't right to live like this

I empathise because this doesn't get much better by the day and I am finding myself on the verge of complete ED, the best I can hope for is a day were it is moderate and I get a little labido 1/2 erections etc - it is beyond a joke.

I get a lot of suicide ideation vaiisking, I know how you feel and am glad you are still with us. We need to remember no matter what caused it this is a hormonal problem and we need to see the best doctors to deal with it. If you do a search on the symptoms of conditions such as adrenal fatigue, low testosterone and hypothyroidism it is ridiculous, I would say just as bad as any other terrible illness. The thing is all these hormones work together i.e. adrenal fatigue will mess up your thyroid functon so any benefits through stimulants etc may be short lived because our endocrine systems are basically not tuned up like they should be or were.

There is a pupil test you can do on yourself by flashing a penlight or something from the side (not the front) towards your pupils in a darkened room. With healthy adrenals, your pupils will constrict, and will stay small the entire time you shine the light from the side. In adrenal fatigue, the pupil will get small, but it will soon enlarge again or obviously flutter in it
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man im glad that you guys are hear .im not much of a right er but feel all of you .look at me ive beeen having ed and now  after trt i have lost most of my balls this sucks i trying to not to loss my mind . that was the thing that was going to fix the problem .i dont have health care and have been paying $ 240.00 a month for my balls to not be what that have been (rad ).im a good looking guy and was fun thats agreat thing to say .check me out do you want to just hold me im a gerat but i dont act like a man no more .i hate like now i did nt want to talk sad to any of you but i cant say thius to any one  so hear i am  i did not sleep on my side before the trt it would hurt my balls now things arent any beeeter .will as life has it once a big dog but what am i now lost .i can be with a lot of gerat ladys but ho want this looks right but no drive wow thats hot .lets not ever have sex good plan !!!!! im a road dog with no health care just what i can pay.sorry about the bad writing ive been drinking and am going bed with my self not that i have to but what am i going to do like lets hang out so we can fell wird i cant do this to myself any more .if i have time ill tell you guys the rest fo my story tomorro trying to chill 421 just got to go to bed .  thank you all for being here
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Avatar_n_tn
hi cjones84.
i have the same conditon.when i sit down especially lying down i sometimes feel ok.
i had all kinds of blood test done.
i had all hormone tests done including testosterone and thyroid
i also had urine tests and ultrasound
the results all came normal.

i think my hernia can cause this.
after i go to toilet to do my **** (i am sorry i dont how to say it in a kind way),i feel so good down there.

it also hurts when i masturbate or after my masturbation finishes. it usually starts from bottom right side and goes to left side.
sometimes after i masturbate i get very very strong pain from all my testicles that i cant even stand, sit or touch it.it hurts so much and can stay for two three hours.

so, my only question is all my tests came out as normal. so can my hernia cause this problem?

and can this be because of adrenal fatigue as i havent done any tests for it?
thanks a lot!!!
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I finally managed to get some time to reply to this thread. It's difficult for me both to deal and listen to other's coping with this disease, simply because i am a very emotional person and it hurt's me to see good people like vaiisking being driven to suicide due to this terrible, terrible condition.

Please let me reply:

vaiisking - I am very glad you are still with us, you are a good man and one of the few people that contacted me personally on another forum. No word's can describe how i felt when i read your post, i am just glad you are here to post again. You need to stay strong and beat this with the rest of us, i have felt strongly suicidal myself so i know what it's like. We all deserve to beat this.

Dr John is an outstanding Dr and i feel confident that he will fix you up. I am going to see Dr Marianco myself, i have had allot of personal contact with him over the past year or so and he know's my case well. My problem isn't testosterone alone but also thyroid (hypothyroid like cjones) and maybe adrenals. I need to get everything checked in full because my condition is very complex. Both Dr John and Dr M are among the best doctors in the world for treating these kind of problems.

Your own case is also very complex, a possible theroy is that nolvadex caused a E2 surge when stopped. Nolvadex dosen't stop E2 armotization at the liver level but rather acts as a SERM which effects breast tissue, areas of the brain, etc. When you stopped nolvadex a surge in E2 probably happened which triggered a down regulation of LH, TSH and caused a negative feedback loop to occur. Because your piturity is dysfunctional (most likely like my testicles) then you're going to get strange reactions from drugs like this.

How are you feeling now? Has anything improved?
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hi caniken, what you need to remember is that you know your body better than anyone else, especially all things below the belt! If you feel ok flaccid when you are relaxed sitting/lying down in your frontroom or whatever and then when you walk around feel your penis atrophy to the size of your thumb there has to be something not right with this. When I didn't have these symptoms I used to feel like I was walking around with a semi-erection almost, maybe as is expected in your late teens, early 20s. My GP didn't understand lacking sensation/feeling libido and said this was all in my head and would only do basic tests because I insisted. Taking viagra although this may help in the short-term is just papering over the cracks of what is really going on here.

All blood tests I had came back "normal" but that doesn't mean it is normal for "you" For instance my TSH was 2.5 and falls within normal range but to a good doctor anything over 2 could be considered hypothyroid and they would start to treat the patient based on their symptoms and not just a lab result that falls within a range. For thyroid the TSH range is 0.3 - 3.0 to look for hyper or hypo symptoms. It is also important to get the results of your actual active thyroid hormones Free T3 and T4 levels and see where these are sitting along with thyroid antibodies (anti-TPO and TgAb) and Ferritin plus adrenals. Basically the full thyroid panel bloodwork and also try and get a saliva test kit for your adrenals to check cortisol over 24 hours. You may also want to check things like Progesterone, Dhea, Estradiol, SHBG and DHT. The next time I get bloodwork it won't be through my GP so I will have more than my TSH to speak of. This is released by your pituitary gland to stimulate your thyroid to produce more hormones. This can be a good indicator of hypothyroidism/ pituitary problems but also misleading depending on your doctors ability at reading labs especially when tested alone and not taking things like Free T3 into consideration

This isn't all about sex hormones, you can have good testosterone levels but still have no libido. Thyroid hormone is partly responsible for increasing your mood, sperm production, energy levels and even increases testosterone production in the testes - where there are thyroid hormone receptor cells. When you are at optimal levels this is very important for maintaining libido. The testes also release Thyroid Releasing Hormone (TRH)

Adrenal Fatigue/Deficiency can kill libido and you need to get this sorted out first. If you find your labs are sitting low/normal for cortisol, progesterone and DHEA then this is a red flag for sluggish adrenals. Along with the many symptoms like anxiety, lack of enthusiasm, libido etc that can't be ignored. Cortisol helps cell receptors receive thyroid hormones from the blood to the cells so this can cause all kinds of problems if you are deficient in this

The hernia may have started this by knocking your hormone harmony ratio out of balance so to speak. If you post up your lab results with the reference ranges I am sure someone like megazoid will give you greater insight on how your hormones are working together. Estradiol being to low or high can stop libido also but I think it is very possible your adrenals and possibly thyroid function has been messed up, possibly due to the hernia. It is like having a car without an engine and once this is fixed everything else may fall into place. It is also essential to get a good doctor

I would also again like to send my best regards to vaiisking and pray everyone gets the answers they are looking for
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Avatar_n_tn
hi cjones84. i feel myself better after i go to toilet and i also feel my penis a lot better when my mood gets better.

do you also have the same symptoms?
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caniken,

Thyroid is related to body temperature, blood flow etc so I would assume that is why we feel the benefit of being sat down, quite literally

I basically have bad ED along with all the anxiety and horrible **** that goes with living with this. I can't get turned on properly at all and just seem to get 1/2 erections through the day when I train my mind to sexual thoughts as I assume this is of some help to this illness. When I masturbate I have to literally psyche myself up and massage my penis for what seems an eternity to get any kind of erection that just seems to serve the purpose of forcing out an early ejaculation. It is that bad I feel like it is a schedule of how dysfunctional I am day to day

Are any of you taking ED drugs like cialis to aid blood flow and erections? This is longer lasting than viagra and may be of some benefit so we don't avoid situations that can lead to sex completely and even get some morning wood back. The celibacy symptom is certainly no fun  
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Avatar_m_tn
Vaiiksing,

Truly sorry to hear about what you've been through.  I hope you're getting through this the best you can.
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Avatar_n_tn
hi cjones84;

normally i do not get any erections night time when i am asleep. sometimes (hwever it is very rarely) i get semi erections night times. but last night i slept on a sofa in my living room. and i put my legs up the side of the sofa. because you know my sofa has high sides.so i felt a lot of erections during the night. i remember this also happened again before. that time i slept in the sofa too and because i had no choice i needed to put my legs up of the sofa.

maybe you shoud try to do the same night time when you go to sleep.put your legs up on to something. and see if you get erections during the sleep.

and pleaase notify me of the results.
thanks!!


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Avatar_n_tn
That is true for sensation/feeling down there hence the healthier flaccid appearance of your penis aiding erections. However this won't last and unless you address the thyroid/adrenals hormone issues you won't regain your confidence and quality of life. I find the constipation, hard stools and anxiety a real worry and know my body is letting me know that I am not right. These problems can give you muscular atrophy in the prostate area, slow everything down and mess up your brain chemistry leading to severe depression. Not to mention all the other types of illness hormone deficiencies can mimic, that is obviously very bad for your mental health and health anxiety may even be a symptom on a long ridiculous list

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuAaMP5NNaE#

I would highly recommend you watch this. It is an interview on Australian television with the author of "Running On Empty" that is a book on hypothyroidism and thyroid conditions. This woman speaks from personal experience and speaks of being totally dysfunctional due to this
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Guys thanks so much for the support and kind words. It is definitely a hard thing to deal with, but as most things do...time heals. I am a little better now than I was...at least stable.

Megazoid, I though Marianco was Dr Crisler. If not, who is Dr Crisler on the Meso boards? Also, I had actually preferred to see Marianco after reading his posts there.

The strange thing about me crashing is that the Nolva run actually seemed to work. While I was on it, I felt fine except getting extreme headaches. After I suddenly quit was when I crashed quickly.  On a side note, while in the behavioral hospital for the two weeks,
the psychiatrist tending me agreed to test my T, E2, FSH, LH. The
results post Nolva were:

Testosterone 535
E2 49
LH 5.6
FSH 2.6

So, it doesn't seem that there was a LH drop in fact there was an increase. The pre Nolva numbers were:


Testosterone 412
E2 51
LH 4.1
FSH 1.3

Just don't understand why stopping the 50mg/day liquid Nolva did what it did with those numbers two weeks after stopping.

God Bless
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Avatar_n_tn
hi guys.
i have another strange symptom. when i masturbate i loose my testicles sensation. it is like i dont have testicles. it feels like really relaxed and nothing in there.
does it happen to you as well?
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Avatar_n_tn
It used to happen to me because of the way I was sitting in my chair. It cut off bloodflow to my genitals and they would go numb for a short bit. Possibly it is that?
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just wanted to say whats up.still working on this .feeling a little better.i,ve been trying to stop smoking (fUN) and started work out agin .still off of the trt.HAY I FOUND A SITE THEAT SEEMS TO BE GOOD TALK WITH SOME OF THESE PROBELMS ITS HESLTH BOARDS.MEGAZOID I HAVE ANSWERS THAT YOU ASKED FOR WHEN IS YOUR NEXT SET OF ???????.my peinis is not as hard .the head does not seem to swell up and bellow the head is more nearrow.it dos go soft when im erect has to have continuse stimulating .it's shrunk up the most when im active are if something is hurting me or im scard.                                                                                                          2)not sure on ? but when im pooing and after pooing do seem to get some what of a erection mostlee at the base .end is still thin feels irratated after pooing.                                                                                                         3)i can still get erection with alot of stimulating .some times in my sleepto but not fully hard i can force blood in to my pieins when erect cant maintain a erection very offten with out consitient stimulation. warm enviroment does no seem to help.                                                                                                                                                                                  
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4)just in head and bellow the head i do have poor sensation and reduced erect size.no dry skin.5)egg timer?i think i know what you are talking about.im thicker at the base and  thiner at the tip.6) dont know why i have hypogonadism was'nt tested for anything execpt t lh and fsh. not sure if i have a throid problem.im ether hot or cold.shin is good .for sure not happy you can see why.7)did not notice testis pulling tight or feeling less full or soft till i started androgel thay did hang down most of the time if i was cold thaty pull up.since i've quit  using the androgel thay seem to hang down .i feel like if i was kicked in the balls it would not hurt like it would have before and i did have pain i n my left testisicl for about 3 years .but after starting the androgel and a cleanse for yeast the pain has gone.8) my scrotom does seem thiner and less seinstive 9) very little libido. i did feel that way sometime back.when i started to have problems.10)pieins does not fell lose at base.11)i have been experincing atropey of the testis.this is what is starting to reely freak me out.12)havent used vigar in a long time but when i was using it i was taking a lot of supplements too.but did try levia and ciulas and did not seem to help alot.i hope that i ansrewd your ?? if you have any ?? about my anwsers just ask .i thank you for all of the info you have put here its lead me to some help. 421  keep working on the puzzale.did you go to the U.S.i know alot more about this problem and still learning .got to get back to life .sitting around being sad and getting fat not going to fix it. it sucks that the frist froum is gone thare was a lot fo good info on it . problem                                                                                                    
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Thanks for the replies 421, our symptoms and situation seem similar.

I have good and bad days. Some day's penis is hanging and erect allot better, but other day's not so great. Very fustrating when you have a beautiful girlfriend you love very much.

I had some flight problems and was forced to delay the flight to mid-june. I will be flying out then to get blood tests and see this world expert Dr, i have allot of faith in him as a Dr and hopefully will start getting my life back.

Can everybody please post lab work + ranges and i will be able to give proper input on this.
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i know its hard when you got a lady for you and her i when though the same thing but i could not take it  could not stand outher men around her i feelt strest out i loved her very much and could not keep it together toldy sucks  iwas with her for 21/2 years  and i had problem off and on i got sick and the sexaul problems  got bad. suppulments did'dt help any more.i new that something was realy wrong with me .so i whent to a urligist and told him that i thought that i had low t he did not think that was wrong with me and i had to ask him for the test and he told me that i was going to waste my money will he was wrong 211 t so he asked if i wanted to go on androgel of corse i did i trying to keep my gf and mind (iwas not acting like my self and real sick not much fun.about amonth later we broke up and i whent crazy drunk angery didnt want to live  keept going home with grils and feeling worse than before.i realy did love my ex i thought that she was it so now here i am trying get this problem fixed so that i can have some one to love agin .i spent 8 year with one woman and i sometime wished that i was not so sexaul becuse ide make her mad wanting sex all the time .so for me to be here is weird just becuse everthing worked great for me.so hear im looking and looking for answers getting all of the info that i can so when i see that next dr ill know what is going on and whats right  no more atrophy. iknow that you have been looking for answers ive seen some post on outher sites good luck and ill try to get my  old lab's.should have some new one soon. have you been to the health boards??421
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Avatar_n_tn
Please read through these websites, it may clear some things up on all these horrible symptoms people have been talking about here

http://adrenalfatigue.org/adrenal_function.php
http://www.drrind.com/scorecard.asp#intro
http://www.mercola.com/2000/aug/27/adrenals.htm

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Hi,

Great forum. I haven
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Avatar_m_tn
Hey guys,

Finally got a date for my appointment with yet another Urologist.  This will be the fourth I've seen and hopefully he'll have a different take on this condition, though I very much doubt it.

What i am going to do is kick up and make sure they listen to me properly and carry out any test they can.

I will also mention this forum if he comes out with "this can't happen/you're imagining this", which is what I've generally heard before.
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I found a study which came to the conclusion that alcohol in moderate intake INCREASES quite significantly the level of T. So the easy answer to my lab results are perhaps that the LH and FSH are low because they are trying to lower the T.

I had been waiting to come to the andrologist for months. How could I be so stupid to drink the night before? (Thought it only had a small decreasing affect on the T). Now I have to take several tests, and then hope he will agree to see me again. The waiting is insufferable.
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Avatar_m_tn
Jack80 - Hope everything works out and you get a new appointment as soon as possible.

If it's any consolation we've all done farcically stupid things in the name of drink!  

Quite possibly you were nervous and needed something to settle you down.  Plus, how many people actually know, in precise detail, the things we've been forced to learn about our bodies, including the effect alcohol has on testosterone levels?  Don't beat yourself up about it man, you weren't to know.
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my ? is im about to make appointment with a endocorinologist and im going to get a uarta sound of my testis and these test total testosterone,bioavailable testosterone,shbg,dht,estradiol,lh,fsh,prolactin,cortisol,thyroid panel,cbc,comprehensive metabolic panel(does this check for adrenals) ,lipid profile. i allready know that i have hypogonadism and was on androgel for about 10 months but did not fix my ed and started to cause testicular atropey im hopeing that if i go back on the trt that i will be useing hcg or something to keep the testis working.hopeing if any of you could think of any more test that i should ask for (will be getting the basic blood test to) tird of the urigist hopeing endo will know more.i have been off of the androgel for about 3 months .ill get to see where im at .any comment whould be great.megazoid if you see any thing that i have missed please point it out since you are the hrommone man                                                                                                             jack80 yossarian is right.your dum dr should tell you what not to do before a test  i think that bs that we  have to find out what not to do and i think that drinking would only makes your estrogen leavel high and your testosterone low becuse it turns your t in to e.            cjones84 thanks for the adrenal info i do have a low body temp i've asked about it before and was told was nomanl .any info on my ????'s i would be thankful.421
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Avatar_n_tn
Hey Guys,
I have an appointment to see Dr Crisler on the 29th of this month. I am very excited to get his take on my situation and see what he suggests as a treatment regiment. Maybe he can even answer why my most recent Nolvadex run, which did result in higher testosterone, LH, and FSH levels....crashed me. Thanks!

God Bless,
Chris
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Avatar_m_tn
Good to hear you're on feeling better man.

Hopefully you get some good news/new treatment which will give us all hope.

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Avatar_m_tn
I notice that posts have dried up a little of late.  I hope that's a sign that everyone affected by these terrible conditions is experiencing improvement but it's more likely that they feel nothing is being achieved by posting the same old stuff time and time again.

If people are continuing to view this thread then I hope they still contribute from time to time as I have personally found their input a great help.  It's been a great comfort to know I am not alone in battling whatever this rare and soul-destroying condition is and also to read what they have found from their research,

We can only help each other if we stick together so in an effort to inject some freshness to the thread I've put together a short questionare which I hope will be of assistance to people. I realise not all our symptoms are exact matches and we may well be suffering from similar yet seperate conditions so hopefully it can help to identify common symptoms/causes.

If you suffer from a shrinking penis then please take the time to complete it.  Hopefully you'll be helping yourself as well as other sufferers.

I'll post the question list here and then enter my answers later for ease of cutting and pasting.  Remember these questions are pretty much from the perspective of what i've suffered so if you think there are questions missing which should be asked please feel free to add them.

1.  Has your penis decreased in length, girth or both?
2.  If yes to the above how much by?
3.  When did you first notice the shrinkage?
4.  Have you sought medical help for this condition?
5.  If yes, what did the doctor tell you?
6.  Have you suffered from testicular atrophy?
7.  Have you suffered from erectile dysfunction?
8.  Do you experience pain in your penis?
9.  If so, describe the pain.
10.  Is there any one incident which you feel might have acted as the trigger for this condition?
11.  Has the rate of shrinkage increased or decreased over the years?
12. Do you drink?
13. Do you notice any worsening of symptoms as a result of drinking?
14. Do you smoke?
15. Do you notice any worsening of symptoms as a result of smoking?
16. Do you take any other substances and does this affect your condition?
17. Have you experienced any other symptoms which you think are related?
18. If so, what are they?
19. Does exercise/lifting weights exacerbate your condition?
20. Is there anything which you feel alleviates the shrinkage, even temporarily?
21. Have you experienced an itch in your penis/groin?
22. Is the shrinkage worse or better after sex/masturbation?
23. Have you noticed any problems passing water?
24. If you have carried out your own research what possible causes have you found?
25. Has a bend in your penis emerged?
26. Is your penis smaller than it used to be in flaccid state?
27. Is your penis smaller than it used to be in erect state?
28. Is it particularly more noticeable in either of the two states?
29. Is there anything which you believe to be the cause of your shrinkage?
30. Is there anything you would like to add about your condition?
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Avatar_m_tn
1. Has your penis decreased in length, girth or both?
Mainly girth although I think I may now be experiencing a slight loss of length.

2. If yes to the above how much by?
Over 1cm in circumference when erect.

3. When did you first notice the shrinkage?
When I was probably around 16, 11/12 years ago and not long after I started masturbating.

4. Have you sought medical help for this condition?
Yes

5. If yes, what did the doctor tell you?
All the urologists I've seen have been fairly dismissive, claiming atrophy doesn't happen.

6. Have you suffered from testicular atrophy?
No.

7. Have you suffered from erectile dysfunction?
No.

8. Do you experience pain in your penis?
Yes.

9. If so, describe the pain.
Sharp shooting pains but also dull aches and a painful itch which seems to be coming from inside the penis.

10. Is there any one incident which you feel might have acted as the trigger for this condition?
No.

11. Has the rate of shrinkage increased or decreased over the years?
Hard to say for definite but more likely it has increased.

12. Do you drink?
Yes.

13. Do you notice any worsening of symptoms as a result of drinking?
Yes, the penis seems to retract more the day after a session.

14. Do you smoke?
Trying to quit.

15. Do you notice any worsening of symptoms as a result of smoking?
No. but it has been suggested this can cause penile shrinkage.

16. Do you take any other substances and does this affect your condition?
When I was younger I took stimulants which had a temporary shrinking effect.  Marijuana might have exacerbated symptoms.

17. Have you experienced any other symptoms which you think are related?
Yes

18. If so, what are they?
Pain/itch in my groin

19. Does exercise/lifting weights exacerbate your condition?
It seems to yes.

20. Is there anything which you feel alleviates the shrinkage, even temporarily?
No.

21. Have you experienced an itch in your penis/groin?
Yes.

22. Is the shrinkage worse or better after sex/masturbation?
After masturating the penis seems to shrink more.

23. Have you noticed any problems passing water?
Some.  I've heard prostate problems suggested as a possible cause.

24. If you have carried out your own research what possible causes have you found?
Smoking, prostate, drinking, marijuana, excessive masturbation, hormones.

25. Has a bend in your penis emerged?
No

26. Is your penis smaller than it used to be in flaccid state?
Yes

27. Is your penis smaller than it used to be in erect state?
Yes

28. Is it particularly more noticeable in either of the two states?
More noticable when flaccid.

29. Is there anything which you believe to be the cause of your shrinkage?
Drinking, weed and masturbation all seem to worsen the shrinkage but nothing I can say for certain.

30. Is there anything you would like to add about your condition?
I've been tested for Peyronies (saline erection) and was clear.  My hormone levels have been checked and okay'd but I've subsequently learnt more about the effect of hormones from the guys here.
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1. Yes
2. I would say up to 2 inches length,  Girth I dont know? quite a lot though. I have also lost a lot of feeling in my penis. The tip is almost numb.
3. About a year ago after using a anal vibrator with my girlfriend as a way of spicing up our sex life.
4. Yes,
5. As per the experiance with most people here I was fobbed off. I had  "normal" testosterone results and was told my nerves are ok due to a scan, I intend to return soon to ask the doctor for another referral. I have a constantly swollen stomache that is uncomfortable. Constant constipation or diarrea (diarrhea) and have put on weight which is something I have never done before and hair loss. I believe they are all related. Maybe down to me damaing my prostrate causing chemical imbalance.
6. not sure what this is.
7. no apart from the obvious shrinkage.
8. Just recently I have started experiancing a dull ache. Its the pain you get if you have had a hard on for a long time but I now get them when I am flacid?
9. A dull ache.
10. yes, anal play with my gf. It was a penis shaped vibrating dildo inserted about 4 inches in my anus.I believe it caused nerve/prostrate damage.
11. its been getting worse month by month
12. yes
13. always really bad shrinkage after drinking.
14. no
15.
16.no
17. i have other symptoms as described above. Mabye its due to tyroid imbalance? can tyroid be affected by a damaged prostrate?
18. as answered above
19. not sure
20.no
21.yes, after masterbation (masturbation)
22.sraight after masterbation (masturbation) it shrinks VERY small
23. very strongly coloured urine. no pain
24. it started after the anal sex play i can only assume this caused it.
25. it has always been bent to one side, no change in this. it now bends up at the base however which it did not do before.
26.yes, very much so
27. yes significantly
28. more noticibly when flacid.
29. i persume testosterone levels have dropped due to prostrate damage? feeling numb due to nerve damage.
30. i suffer deppresion and think about it all the time. I do worry its a permanent thing. I will post a update after I have spoken to another doctor. Please feel free to tell me your thoughts/ advice on my answers. Many thanks .Adam.
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I am just about at the end of my tether and don't know how long i can go on.

I've responded to people on here before telling them not to be so stupid when they've talked about suicide but the way I'm feeling now that is the only route I can see myself going down if things keep going the way they are.

I've had a long-standing problem with my penis getting thinner but the one saving grace was that length didn't seem to be affected.  That's no longer the case.  My penis is now getting considerably shorter as well as thinner and the rate this is happening at is terrifying.  

Little more thna the head is now visible when flaccid and my penis is constantly painful and itchy.  I cannot concentrate at work, my relationships are suffering and every day is a trial which seems to result in further atrophy.

No matter what i do this seems to keep happening.  I drink, it shrinks, I dont drink, it shrinks.  I smoke it shrinks, I dont smoke, it shrinks.  I exercise, it shrinks, I dont exercise it shrinks.

I previously said that i didn't think anyone serious about suicide would tell people about it on a messageboard and I probably still think that.  I'm probably talking a load of horse here but I am absolutely desperate and cant see any way out of this.  No-one in the medical profession seems to be taking this seriously.  I've got an appointment with another urologist in a few weeks and that's all that's keeping me going but th eway things are going at the minute I genuinely fear there will be nothing for him to have a look at by the time I see him.

If anyone does still read this thread then I'm sorry to burden myself on them, especially when thye have their own stuff to sort out but I needed to get this off my chest and posting here was the only way I could do it.
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Do this before you waste anymore money or waiting time on urologists and the like who won't understand your condition because of limited knowledge. Remember also that sexual dysfunction is a symptom of MANY! a complete lack of bloodflow, low body temp and poor circulation etc is a good reason to listen to your penis, no joke!

All the labs are below so get it done!

LAB WORK from Canary Club, where you can choose between Diagnos-Tech or ZRT for special prices. The saliva tests are for a full spectrum: thyroid (TSH, free T3, free T4), adrenals (cortisol and DHEA), estrogen, progesterone, testosterone. ZRT includes a blood ***** test on top of the saliva (which can be helpful to detect antibodies, since saliva misses it in some)
thecanaryclub.org/content/view/196/52/

LAB WORK from ZRT LABORATORIES where you can test JUST one thing
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im still around.it sucks to fill the way that you are feeling.i know that i have hormone problems and high triglycerides some this is probley whats going on with me and i've just started to learn that the androgel that i was on could cause problems to.i know that you have been trying to find answers for a long time and im sure that it's wearing on you and its hard to change something  if you dont know what to change at least for me it is.you might wont to try a diffrent kind of dr i had  a lot of problems with my uorigst and i have been trying to find a diffrent one im planing to go to this anit-aging DR you might want to try this or endo and get a lot of testing done or find a uorigst thats willing work with you rather that telling you that this cant happen.i read the post that you put on ask a dr and he gave you some idea's have you checked them out.i think that you have a girlfriend and i know that for me that was making it stressful. thare is something going on with you and im sure that you can find out what if just take's time and a lot of dum DR's !!you just need top find the right one.i know that i have posted this book before but it has alot of good info on how to keep the pieins in good health thorow diet suplmments walking and so on(the hardness factor)you are lucky that you are not haveing problems with ED now that sucks.i have been going to the health boards and getting some good anwsers thare you might want to go thare and see if you can get some anwsers thare.dude hang on i sure that you will find out whats going on and thing's will better. im hopeing that this dr that im going to will get thing's right for me.the only reason that this thread bum me out is that no one hear seems to have found out what is going on with them or thay come on hear frecking out  and than you dont hear from them.but some have been hear for a long time and if thay got some kind of anwser i sure that thay would post it.i hope that you are fieeling better about things to day.421
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hi guys. i have one last question for my situation before i go to another country to find a solution for my sickness. as i told here before i feel my genitals best when i lay down like going to bed night time. other times sometimes when i sit down usually to my computer chair not however not on the sofas.i sometimes get abnormal heart beatings  when i go to bed and masturbate which feels like my heart will go out of its place.i get a warm exiceted feeling as well when my hearts beating abnormally.for the last 6-7 months i have been staying only at home.i dont even go out.when i stand up and walk i feel my genitals worse. my gentals got soften up so i have less feeling down there. it didnt get shorter or thinner. but it feels like there is not enough blood as it is very soft. today i had some exercise and after that i went to toilet to have a pee and i realised that my penis and testicles even got much much more softer.especially my testicles got so abnormally softer which feels like cotton when touch.when i am stressed i lost my remaining sensation of genitals. when i am happy or have no stress at all or when i dont think about my situation at all then i get more feeling of my genitals and i feel so good.so if any of you have the similar symptoms please do respon to me and please tell me what is wrong with me? i sometimes get so stressful usually night times then i cant get control it and i cry a lot.in the last 6 months i have been crying for at least 5-6 times.i am currently living in new zealand and i will fly to my motherland( turkey) after 2 weeks.I will go to see best doctors in there as doctors in nz had no help for my sickness.PLEASE TELL ME MY PROBLEM IF YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS.thank you very much. and one more thing, my friends please never ever think about suicide. nothing in the world worth to suicide..dont forget NOTHING.My problem was at first myself as i didnt have a functional penis and it appeareance and then it become other people's lookings to me as i think even now people are looking at my organ when i meet them so now i dont even care what people think of or where they look at on my body..it just feels great.i wish everybody in this forum will get their answers and solutions.DONT FORGET ALWAYS LOOK ON BRIGHT SIDE OF LIFE AND NEVER GIVE IT UP.........
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Guys, first of all thanks for the supportive posts.  Secondly I want to apologise for what i posted the other day.  I was in a real low due to this **** but I really wish I'd handled it better.

Just keep on truckin' I suppose
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i was wanting to know if you have any of these tests done yet and if you found any thing wrong??some of what you write sounds like me i am going to a anti-aging dr soon and was wanting the name of the tests that you are talking
about.the info you have given is good and helpful .im planing on trying to get the test that dr john at allthingsmale plus a test for vin-d .so all the testing that i can find is helpful.i did look up the last links that you had posted.thx agin 421
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Low adrenal reserve being suspected or plain obvious suggests no other supplementation should be considered until adrenal support is in place as this will just make you feel worse. Remember there are people who are on the low end of the scale with testosterone who still wake up with morning erections.

If you have low cortisol, low-normal dhea and/or progesterone you are in trouble as long as you are in this boat

Saliva testing is the most accurate way to check cortisol over a 24 hour period, better than blood or urine as marianco has stated himself.

With labs like diagnos-tech you get a full interpretation report for the full thyroid and adrenals panel. This should be the first thing you do and it will slap you in the face in a good way because your health is suffering!

Dr John, with his wealth of knowledge everything will be taken into consideration and you will be on the road to recovery. To be honest I don't think he will leave anything out for extensive bloodwork

Bloodwork should include  

TSH
Free T3
Free T4
TPO and TgAb (you need both antibodies)
Ferritin

aldosterone, acth, sodium, potassium, albumin, renin should also be checked along with B12

If tsh and acth are elevated while you have low free t3 for example (active hormone) and cortisol this indicates how much stimulation there is from the pituitary but not hormone production from the glands themselves. This can be a clear sign of dysfunction.

Low cortisol will cause a thyroid dump as the hormones cannot get into your cells and may look reasonably normal on labs due to the high amount of thyroid hormones building in your blood and you will still suffer hypo symptoms

You want to be within the upper 1/3 range for Free T3  

Make sure he checks blood sugar levels and adrenal antibodies also to rule out any autoimmune disease that may be going on here

421, my adrenals/thyroid axis are exhausted and its basically messing up my life. I am getting further tests and finally/hopefully the correct treatment. This is not all in the mind remember that and take charge of your health, no one else will!
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I know you've probably posted it before but is there a link which provides a very basic introduction to the hormonal/glandular information you provide.

I find it a bit baffling to be honest but am keen to read up about it as much as possible.

I'm slightly calmer than when I posted last week although today was like one long panic attack.  I think this is worse after the weekend when I haven't eaten or slept properly and have normally consumed alcohol.

I've cut back massively on smoking and drinking recently and after a prior committment on Friday, am staying completely drink and smoke-free for a month to try and detox my body, calm myself down and deal with this better.

One of the main dilemas I face is that I've just met the most amazing girl at a time when I'm at my lowest point with this ****.  It's a hard thing to tell a woman "hey, stick with me, my **** is only gonna get smaller and it'll totally f*** my head up at the same time" after a few weeks.  Things are okay when I'm with her and can for the most part forget about my shrinkage but when I'm on my own my mind get rotted by dark thoughts

I dont want to let this condition ruin my life and sabotage what might or might not turn out to be something good.  I realise I'm lucky in that I haven't suffered dysfunction but my penis is still painful, itchy and getting thinner/smaller and it's messing me up quite a bit.

I'm sure some of you have faced similar problems in relationships because of what we're going through.  I've deliberately sabotaged previous relationships when they got to the serious stage rather than have to tell a girl and face frightening her off but i just dont want it to happen this time.
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How did your appointment go?
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What other symptoms do you have with the shrinkage? I appreciate you don't get ED but it is still severe dysfunction for that to happen, you are not 90 years old and want to know whats causing this

It could simply be in your case taking Isocort, that is a natural over the counter full adrenal cortex.

People with low T like 421 taking Isocort and HCG together may feel very good because HCG increases all the adrenal hormones

If your problem is secondary that means pituitary problems then you could need to always take this as the adrenals may not come back up on their own. You also don't want to completely suppress your adrenals so you need to work up to the right dose

I would suggest reading through Dr Marianco's posts at the mesomorphosis forum. He is the God of all things hormones if you want to read into great detail but he also keeps it simple to understand. He contributes in depth to all the stickys on the mens health forum. I would start with the adrenal thread

http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/acth/test.html
http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/aldosterone/test.html

You may find that useful information
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Cheers for the info.  I'll have a look later on.

Other symptoms are various pains in the penis and surrounding area as well as an itch which seems to be inside the tissue
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So you have no other signs of dysfunction such as lack of energy, aching prostate etc? I can't think what else would cause this since you obviously don't have peyronies and heres hoping no one here ever gets that. I would get the tests done rather than a urologist telling you its normal. Something has to show up indicating endocrine abnormalities for it to keep getting worse, your E2 may be too high or low also that effects bloodflow and libido. Best of luck
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Dont really notice any unusual lack of energy.  I would say my libido is possibly not what it though and lately my ejaculate has been waterier than it was and far less in volume.  The force of ejaculation is far weaker than it was as well.

This makes me think there could be something up with my prostate.  I often struggle to pee and I need to go to the toilet far more often than a man my age should.  Only thing I cant understand is why the ejaculation problem would suddenly start when the shrinkage has been happening for years.

Best of luck with your problem as well.  We may not be experiencing exactly the same thing but I can definitely empathise with what you're going through.
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I am seeing similarities although it seems the other way around to my case. I suffered the gradual loss of libido and ejaculate "prostate problems"  for a  while before I noticed any shrinkage when I thought things couldn't get any worse they did and I lived with it cluelessly. You need to remember this is progressive if you are suffering adrenal fatigue it will only get worse and then symptoms will be everywhere when you get to the later stages.

I can't stress enough how important it is you get yourself checked out properly. The frequent urination could be a sign of diabetes or hypoglycemia because your blood sugar levels may be all over the place while your body is under this constant strain. Again hope you start getting some answers soon and get control over the situation and thanks for the support! Hope megazoid is back posting here soon also in better health
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Yeah, hope Megazoid and everyone else who has posted here is managing to cope and hopefully getting help, whether medically or personally.

I had a quick look over the links you sent me but found few symptoms which I could relate to and no mention about penile shrinkage.  I'm not doubting your research however and am interested to know how following this line of treatment has helped you.  I will get the tests done because, as I've said before, I'll give anything a try.

I also spoke to a physician I kinda know the other week.  He was very helpful and is willing to spend some time looking at the problem and the various causes which have been suggested and try to find some way forward.  

Over the years I've experienced occassional discharge which would most likely seem to be prostate fluid.  This is happening more and more regularly and is very often preceded by a painful itch in the penis.
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what up,how is everone . i have been looking in to the hcg and clomid.i've been reading on anouther board that few guys thare are doing a test with clomid to raise thare T.i looked up isocort looks like a good blend.i should be seeing a antti-ageing dr soon and have some anwsers soon hopeing that he has a open mind .i have been wondering about megzoid to i saw thet he posted to someone on page one and said that he was on some med's i hope that its helping him out.i should have some info on me some time this month.good luck and may the forise be with you.421
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I'm a 38 year old male who has had ED and/or trouble with erections my entire adult life. I have used viagra (100mg) to some success but still often need oral stimulation to achieve a sufficient erection.

My penis just seems smaller than when I was younger, also, I've been having increasingly diminished sensations on the head of the penis since my early 20's. I'll put it this way, my last girlfriend had a tongue ring and when she was giving oral sex I couldn't tell. However, with viagra on a few occasions and one time without I was able to have decent sexual intercourse.

I've experienced depression/anxiety, skin blotches/redness, joint and muscle pain, foggy thinking, tiredness for many years now off and on.

I was always told up til 2005 that the ED was psychological, however, a urologist that year noted I had testicles "half normal size" and believed it was a hormonal issue, possibly requiring Testosterone replacement. I saw an endocrinolgist in spring 2006 who said I should do a biopsy of my testicles to check for tissue or other damage.

I've traditionally had elevated FSH levels from tests going back to 1997 but most other scores all have been normal until recently, March 2007, where both FSH and LH scored "High". I've posted results below.

I saw doctors at the Mayo clinic in the fall of 2006 and though they noted my testicles were "smallish" they said they weren't as small as noted earlier by the urologist. A ultrasound of blood flow was good by the Mayo urologist, the endocrinologist said just "freeze your sperm" if you want kids ... I had a low sperm count but things still looked ok. The endocrinologist basically said everything was ok except for the high FSH. One of the conclusions/diagnosis was listed as partial testicular germ compartment failure due to sertoli cell function issues. They said use caverject or similar injections to solve my ED.

My lab results from Mayo in Fall 2006 were:
Total Testosterone: 480
Testosterone, Bioavail: 168
Prolactin: 8 ng/mL
LH: 7
FSH: 25

My Lab results from March 2007 were:
Testosterone: 18.7 nmol/L - reference range 7.3-23.5
Testosterone Free: 45 PMOL/L - reference range 31-94
DHEA-S: 5.3 umol/L - reference range 3.3-14
FSH: 17 (high) - reference range 2-8
LH: 9 (high) - reference range 2-6
Estradiol-17 beta: <100 - reference range up to 206
Prolactin: 6 - reference range 2-18
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin: 26 NMOL/L - reference range 13-71

I've seen a naturopath within the last month who did a saliva test and it came back "normal" with Testosterone but high for both cortisol and I think DHEA-S ... I don't have the results with me but I know cortisol was high ... it was just a one time saliva test in the am, it wasn't done throughout the day.

I really need to get a handle on this. I've found most Doctors to be usually very dismissive or either totally perplexed by my "condition" which again does not help me get the answers I need. I lost my marriage because of this condition and have suffered greatly from self-esteem and confidence issues, not to mention just having quality of life affected. I want to have an opportunity for another relationship but I need to get a handle on this situation. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
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how is the rest of your health.?what kind of life style do you have ?smoke/drink so on.do you eat good food  work out .i have had some luck with some  supplements .i have not been doing them at this time becuse i wont to get some testing done.421
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Thanks for your input. My overall health is ok I guess. I've had episodes though of joint, muscle pain on and off over the years and have for the longest time had much difficulty waking up in mornings. I just never feel rested. Sometimes when I'm waking up, or even relaxing in the day it feels like I'm vibrating or shaking ... I'm not but it feels that way.

I don't smoke but have been drinking on weekends, usually to the point of intoxication. Not good I know but it's been a crutch, way to escape a lot of this also the breakup of my marriage. There are better solutions though. However, this problem occurred through years even when I wasn't drinking.

My diet is ok but I've been eating out regularly due to work. I do try to ensure though I'm getting vegetables every day and lean cuts of meat when possible.

I've also been told that I've got anxiety and depression symptoms and yes I'll admit they're there. My GP put me on Effexor about 3 years ago which I took for a year but I gained 60lbs and had bad sinus attacks. I was always told all this started/was in my head, but I'm thinking that the anxiety, depression are a result of the underlying physical problem. Also, now with the urologist saying it's organic it really makes me want to pursue a medical solution.

I do try to exercise regularly (3-4 times per week both weights and cardio), am quite muscular and have good hair distribution. I did go grey prematurely though but all men in my family, dad, uncles did also. I've also had problems with athletes foot and nail fungus and dry, cracked bottoms of my feet.

The thing also is that my dad has always had circulation problems and recently I found out that he had "issues" performance wise also, however, I do not believe he has issues with atrophy of any kind.

In general, most people looking at me think I'm healthy. I'm approximately 6'2" and 205lbs but don't appear fat. I do carry a spare tire and love handles though which are impossible to lose as the rest of my build is quite lean.

Currently I'm on supplements from a Naturopath for the past 2 months including Perfusia (L-Arginine) as well as a couple others, Rhodiola, Magnesium, and will be starting PS-100. I haven't really noticed any difference yet tho. It is weird because before I took the supplements at the end of April, for about a week I notice that there was a spike in libido and especially one time in penile sensations when masturbating. The sensations then diminished again but I was still kinda horny most days. However, the past 4 weeks or so it's trailed off again. I've also noticed some discomfort in my left testicle on a few days off and on that corresponds with some stomach discomfort ... like you've taken a glancing shot down there or something. But this has been an off and on occurrence for years.

I apologize for typing so much but I just want to make sure I get most of this out.

A really great girl is now interested in me and I'm so wanting to pursue things with her and see where it could go but have this **** holding me back. I'd love to at least know what's going on, for both our cases. I'm more or less desperate for any help you know??
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"I apologize for typing so much but I just want to make sure I get most of this out.

A really great girl is now interested in me and I'm so wanting to pursue things with her and see where it could go but have this **** holding me back. I'd love to at least know what's going on, for both our cases. I'm more or less desperate for any help you know??"

Firstly, don't feel you need to apologise.  What you, and all of us are experiencing, is not easy to talk about.  The anonymity of the Internet allows us to do this and speak to people with similar conditions.  Clear your chest as much or as little as you like.

Secondly, I know exactly how you feel.  I've just started seeing the most amazing woman in the world.  I'm now thinking "how the **** do I bring this up in conversation?"  I want her to know what's going on before things get more serious but at the same time I don't want her to feel obliged to stick with me.  Idon't know what the **** to do.

Getting through each day is getting harder and harder all the time.  My penis is getting thinner all the time and length is now starting to be affected.  From the research I've carried out I'm pretty sure I'm suffering from some form of prostate problem (prostate fluid discharge, pain throughout pelvic area atc) but that would seem as though its in addition to whatever is causing the atrophy.
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Are there any specific medical centres or doctors that specialize in these things. I thought going to the Mayo Clinic would've been the best option but they seemed almost as confused as me at times. Also, the tests I've heard about online they didn't do. Why not? Any places that are more thorough in their examiniations or is it up to us? It's hard to take all of this info in, I thought that's what doctors were for.
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Answer is, I don't have a clue mate.  I don't know what the Mayo Clinic is, is it in the States?  I'm in the UK.

I vouched the idea of starting up a website where people suffering this, or similar problems could go to get support at the very least.  I hoped this would attract the attention of doctors who would at least be willing to investigate these conditions.

This thread will, like the first one soon either reach the maximum amount of posts or be bumped off the board.  A proper web presence would allow people to share their experiences and hopefully any treatment which works for them along with any theories they may stumble upon.

Unfortunately I'm the world's biggest technophobe so couldn't set one up myself.  I would be able to contribute to making it search engine friendly so fellow sufferers would be able to easily find it though.

Good luck with this girl.  Why don't you go out a few times, see what happens and then cross the bridge of telling her when you come to it?  I'm pretty much burying my head in the sand and hoping for the best on that score for the minute!
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yes, the Mayo Clinic is a big hospital in the US. Actually, I think 3 in total. Very high prestige place. But again, I hear and see more stuff online and when I mentioned it to people there they dismissed it or else didn't seem to think it was an option. Also, they were of opposite views from other specialists I saw. Very confusing. That's why I was wondering if there was a doctor or specific clinic somewhere that specializes in this type of stuff it would be worthwhile to check out. Just to get a better idea of what I'm dealing with, because right now, I don't have a clue. All I know is that it's not working and interfering with my life.
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Yossarian,
The trip itself was pure Hell...as airlines go, but the actual doctor visit was productive I think. He has ordered me a 24 hour urinalysis that will arrive in the mail soon. After that, we are going to look at treatment options. He believes my E2 is high just from speaking to me about it, but want to confirm before attempting treatment.

Willc06,
Granted this is just my opinion, but it seems that your total T is low in relation to how high your FSH/LH are. It is suggestive of secondary hypogonadism where the brain sees that there is not enough T in the system, sends signal via LH/FSH, but the testicles can't produce enough T to be sufficient. I was at 500ish range with a FSH/LH level around 2.6, 5.0 respectively, and that was being pushed by Nolvadex...which I don't recommend. It resulted in a terrible crash and suicide attempt :(

God Bless,
vaiisking
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Good to hear you're doing better man.  All the best and I hope the treatment works out for you
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I haven't posted here in a while and have been through allot in the past few weeks. To be honest about it, i sometimes don't feel like posting just due to the whole depression and trying to make my mind off it.

After visiting the Dr in the states, many thing's were discovered. I guess the main thing being that i have hypothyroidism, adrenal fatigue (stressed adrenals) and vitamin A deficiency. Because my testosterone was borderline the Dr didn't agree with T treatment, this makes sense as once the other issues are resolved sex hormones improve anyway.

I have spent most of this evening doing research on the link's between thyroid hormone and ED. Keep in mind ED is closely tied with shrinkage due to the poor blood flow and sensation issues.

Over the past few weeks the thyroid causing ED link has been on my mind allot, it would seem allot of cases could be explained by this (everything from primary hypogonadism, propscar/propecia usuage, anabolic steriod abuse, etc). Low libido/sexual desire, ED, PE and delayed ejaculation are all linked with low thyoird hormones.

When one get's low thyroid hormones the offset of this is over-stressed adrenals, sometimes resulting in adrenal fatigue.

I thought back to when i was a very young child (maybe 5+) and recall getting super hard erections that could cut through glass! At the age you haven't really developed at all, your testicles are still small and you aren't pumping out T like nobodys business. However you are still getting hard wood, so surely T/E2 isn't all to blame here?

The more i thought about the more it made sense. Estridol and Thyroid hormone fight for the same receptor sites/cells, so why do you men with high E2 get ED and other problems? Why are products like derma working so well for some guy's here? The answer could be as simple as freeing up E2 (by lowering it) which is resulting in thyroid hormoene getting a chance todo it's job properly. Esso for example described getting "larger balls" and better "hang" from his penis, which would make sense since thyroid improves circulation. Both of which help with erections.

Some websites worth visiting:

http://www.boomersmakingadifference....d_problem.html
http://sciencedaily.healthology.com/...rticle3876.htm

I thought it would be worth posting this quote:

"Once the men with hyperthyroidism were treated, almost all saw their symptoms of erectile dysfunction disappear."
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willco6,it do's seem like somethig is wrong with your testis from what i have read pituitay gland puting out alot of LH/FSH and i think thats a sign that its somethig with the testis.i think that thare is some things that can be used to feed them like zinc .im not sure whats out thare but it would seem thats the what i would start to look in to.

megazoid and all,glad to hear from you and that you are finding out what going on with you.you might be lucky if you can fix what's going on you might be able to get back on track and not have to be on trt for the rest of your life.i have been wating for this antti-ageing dr get back so that i can go hopfuly find out whats going on with me and i am planning to see a better urolgist and get some utlra sounds done  .so my mind can be at some eas.i have made alot of life changes and plan to keep working on this .i have read some posts from a couple of guys that are doing this colmid test thats works with the hpta and that thay have gotten thare T up to some high numbers and are starting to feel better ?i was wanting to know what all of your guys trglycerides numbers are if you dont mind.i should have some anwsers soon and i hope that all of you do to!!421
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Good to hear you're still around man, even if the past few weeks have been tough.

I too have had some of the thoughts you shared some time ago.  Like you I'm just trying to cope the best I can and get through this day by day until we find something which helps.

I hope you're recent developments lead to good news.  I'll be checking out the info you provided, as i do all the links you leave - you're constant research and determination to help yourself are somewhat inspirational.

I've got an appointment with another Urologist in a couple of days time (after waiting almost 6 months).  I'm nervous as i genuinely feel this is the last chance I have to get a diagnosis/treatment from the conventional medical profession.  If this guy is like all the others then I really dont know what I'm going to do.

I am going to insist on ultrasounds/scans/prostate exams/more extensive blood work/any other test possible this time to try to get to the bottom of what is going on.  I will also take notes of all theories/research found by Megazoid, cjones84 and others to get his views on them.

I'll probably post on Tuesday/Wednesday to let you know how I get on.

All the best

Yossarian
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Hey man,
Who did you visit? Was it Marianco? My visit with Dr Crisler was good, but too short. I'm waiting for the 24 hour urinalysis kit to come and send it in. Then he says we have a good idea of where to start for me.

God Bless,
Chris
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Just got back from seeing the urologist, the fourth I've seen now.  

After forcing him to listen to me and examination he's agreed to put me forward for further scans/x-rays.  He was at least honest in stating that he did not expect them to show up any cause for the atrophy and the best he could suggest was counselling to help me cope with what was happening.

This isn't exactly what I wanted to hear but more or less what i expected.

After taking a flow test it was revealed that i officially p*** slowly.  I've got to go back for tests on my bladder/prostate but to be honest that's secondary in my mind.

I am determined to find out what's causing this condition but, like magazoid said, it's not great fixating on it so much.  I guess we all know how hard that is to do though and I feel I'm totally at a dead end and with this.  Whilst I feel like I can't get on with my life without getting this sorted I also feel that this occupying my mind all the time is stopping me from getting on with my life as well.

Anyway, rant over.
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yossarian,have you seen any other dr beside a urolgist  you might want to see if thare is something  that anouther type of dr can do i forget what hormone test that you have have done do you mind listing them agin and any blood test .i thnk that your teststrone was right i have read that if this is low it can cause these problems.
vaiisking,how are things going with dr john did you get your test back.what kind of labs did you have to do and whare did you get them done at.ii have been thinking about seeing him but i would not be able to go thare is this what you are doing do you have low-T our other hormone problems??i cant rember!well hope that things are good  like to hear what you thought about dr john since you are seeing him how long did take you to get appointment with him and what is it costing you thanks hope that im not asking to many ??421
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Not seen anyone other than a urologist.  It's the only type of doctor my GP will refer me to and I cannot afford to go private.

Trying more alternative medicine courses at the the minute and doing general research into tissue atrophy to see if anything clicks.

This is still on my mind a lot but I've been feeling less depressed over the past week or so.  I've been avoiding the drink/weed and been eating a lot more fruit and vegetables as well as getting a bit more exercise and that appears to have helped my mood considerably.
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vaiisking,im not sure if you saw the post that i posted ??


yossarian,glad to hear that you are feeling better .that sucks with the gp the reason that  i ask is that thare are alot of thing that can effect blood flow and thare are things that can help and some of this could be the problem for all of us since you started to have thes problems have you used any ed meds.when i was useing some supplements it seem to help me out.did your gp give you any blood test.i'll try to post some info that i have soon .
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Do you mean the likes of Viagra?  I've never suffered from erectil dysfunction so never felt it neccessary to try anything like that.  Been taking Omega 3 and Gingko supplements to imrove my blood flow in general but that's about it.

it's been suggested to me that the atrophy could be caused by nerve damage.  Don't know if there's any doctors who specialise in this area though.
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I don't know how many people who've posted here are UK-based but did any see a clip show called TV Heaven Telly Hell last night?

bear with me on this one.  The presenter and Jack Dee were discussing a show called City hospital which was on a few years ago.  They mentioned a segment about a man whose penis was being eaten away by a rare bug.

I remember City Hospital but not this bit.  Has anyone ever seen it/heard of it?  The reason I aks is that it's surely of some interest to all of us, given what we're suffering.
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Questions: Do you think your adrenal advice applies here?
My husband is 36 yo, in good health.  He has a physical at least once per year (active military).  No smoking, barely any drinking.  Not taking testosterone or creatine or steroids.  Does not have any penial disfunction.  But in recent months, weeks really, he has lost penis girth and testicular volume.  Sexual performance is still good - he actually seems to last a little longer lately.  Has been complaining of increasing fatigue, but also has been under a tremendous amount of stress.  Any ideas?
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Are there any Doctors in New England that deal with these problems? I originally had shrinking penis but now it has slowly come back, after almost 3 years.  I think excessive masturbation has caused my problems, but now how do I fix them.

I have pain in my testicles, epididymis, lower stomach area, sometimes in my side.  I have pain after masturbation (which I now due once or twice a month) or sexual intercourse, and I can feel "weak" for days after (sometimes weeks), sexually and in normal energy.  For over a year and a half I could barely get an erection and now only get one very infrequently.

I need a Dr. who will believe me firstly, secondly administer the tests I need to get me on the road to recovery. I live in Lowell, MA. Please help me.

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Here are lab results I got back a year ago.  Any advice? Thank you everyone.

July 1 2006
Result units - "normal parameter"

FSH 4.2 1.0 - 42.5 mlU/ml

LH 2.4 1.7 - 11.2 mlU/ml

Prolactin 11.0 3.3 - 20.8 ng/ml

Testosterone 405 199 - 1586 ng/dl

Free testosterone 11.6 10 - 55 PG/ML

Estrogen, total, Serum 109 <130 pg/ml

DHEA 6.2 1.5 - 7.0 ng/ml

I have had Urinalysis
3 Ultrasounds
Prostate exam

No exams I have taken have shown any problems yet I have:

Epididymitis (right side only). It is enlarged compared to the left.
Testicular pain
Testicles hanging abnormally low (scrotum does not pull up to the body).
Inability to get a full strong erection (have had a few only recently).
Abdominal pain in the lower right side.
Pain on the right side under my kidneys.
Lack of energy, tiredness.
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i dont know alot but it looks like your e2 is high and your LH/FSH is low.are you over weight??what is your age?why did you have 3 ultasounds done.thare is a good dr in PA  dr shippen i think that i spelled his name right.i dont think that jerking off would cause thes problems .it looks like you are starting find out whats going on.i know that this can be pain figar out but the right test and a good DR you'll find out whats happin.
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I am male 35 years of age and I am not overweight.  I had 3 testicular ultra-sounds done becaues of testicular pain, and the recommendation of my doctor.  What tests do you recommend?  Who is Dr. Shippen?  Do you have a phone number and/or address for him?  Also, we should keep our spelling and punctuation at a high level on these forums.  Sorry to say this but I have read alot of "bad" english and I believe that it detracts from our goals a little.  Thanks for the help.
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sorry about gramer i cant spell at all!! im trying to help but if you cant understand me understand.dr shippen is a dr that deals with hormone problems in males if you go to allthingsmale.com dr john has a list of tests that you might want to have done you have had some of them and these drs know the right way to work with them.its odd that you have high e2 this could be your problem.i wish that i could explan better. did these parameters come with the test that you had done?i am just starting to learn about hormone problems and i have not had to spell very offen but i have been trying to talk to men on these boards so that i can understand since i have low-T i am 31 years of age.i have been have some of the same problems as you i have not had a ultra-sound (ultrasound) but i should have one soon.i did not have any thing going on with me till i was 27 and than i started to have testicular pain and whent to urilogst and told him that i was haveing pain and he check me out and said that i was fine and that i would have to deal with the pain.i started to have ed and when it got bad i tryed to find out what was going on so i asked my dr to test my testosterone and it came back low and i was put on andorgel and that did not work like i wanted it to so im in the same boat trying find out how to fix this .
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The parameters are ones that were with the tests.  I believe you can have the same tests done with different parameters (this is a problem for analysis, at least for us).  A Dr. Wagner in New Hampshire believes that my Free Testosterone is low and I should see an Endocrinologist.  My primary care Dr. thought that all my levels were fine.  I have an appointment in 3 weeks with an Endocrinologist and I will let everyone know what he has to say.  E2 means Estrogen?  I have gone to 3 Urologists and they have not been a help at all, and actually they haved delayed my study and further pursuit of my problem.  See a Urologist but see and Endocrinologist too.
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a day - any further developments with your husband?  Has he suffered any pain or discomfort at all and how much has he thinned by?  It sounds similar to what i've experienced but my atrophy has occured over a period of 10/11 years.  Just remember you'r elucky to have each other.

needadoctor - I understand your frustration with Urologists.  I've seen 4 now and am waiting for an ultrasound later this month.  I'm gonna save up for a private consultation with an endocrinologist but will carry out more research beforehand so I know what questions to ask to prevent me wasting time and money just to get fobbed off again.

421 - dont worry about your spelling/grammar bud!  More important we try to help each other out to try and get to the bottom of this ****

all - I had a recolection from my early teens the other day that I cant stop thinking about.  I experienced a prolonged puberty and couldn't ejaculate until I was about 15.  Despite this I tried to masturbate before I could *** on several occasions.  Very often my penis would swell up for a few days afterwards as a result of this.  

Did anyone experience anything similar, is it normal and do you think this is what could have started my problems?  The reason I ask is because the thinning I've experienced started not long after I was able to ejaculate and began masturbating regularly, although there was no swelling then.
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hey this shrinking penis thread has been going on for a year now. enough is enough get over it already whatever is wrong with you penis. except it. u can talk all u want it aint gonna do you any good. go to a urologist and get some testosterone therapy or something and shutup about this silly sh.t. im fed up already with this same question ever time i log into this site. jesus f uc kin christ! if i was u i would have solved this problem a year ago. seems like it taking u forever to fix this problem.  im starting to think that you like to have a problem just to talk about.
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what's your deal??why do you keep reading this thread if you dont like it ??not everone hear has been here for a year and everone do;s not need trt.for me it's good to get info and the more that i can the better.why are you even reading this  if you dont have this??dude just let us be thanks for your thoughts!
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You know, you don't need to read any threads you don't want to.

If you have read this one you will realise that this is a condition which has caused several people to consider suicide, relationships to break down and created untold other problems in people's lives.

These physical symptoms we have experienced are not recognised by the conventional medical profession, which is why people need to come here to speak with others who are similary affected, in the hope that someone has experienced some success which can help the rest of us.

Our postings here may ultimately prove futile as you suggest and we may have to just accept what is happening to our bodies but until that time we are entitled to ask questions and continue to seek answers, especially on an open forum.  If pooling our resources gives us even the slightest chance of getting them then who are you to tell us what we should/shouldn't be doing with our health?

Do you honestly think any of the people who have posted here are enjoying this terrifying and baffling illness?  Do you think we want to waste our life trawling the Internet for something that might just give us a clue?  Every poster has sought out the help of professionals who are dismissive of what we are experiencing and this site, at the very least, has taught us that we aren't crazy and there are others out there who are as desperate and frustrated as we are.

I take it that before you are even on this site you have some health worries yourself.  I truly hope you find the answers you are looking for because that surely is the point of this site.  I would encourage anyone with any condition to seek the help they think they require and I sincerely hope they get it.  

I don't know why you're so intolerant of people who are merely trying to find out what's wrong with their bodies but I can assure you that if things were as simple as visiting a urologist and getting some TRT none of us would be posting here.  For a start, urologists wont prescribe TRT for a something they dont acknowledge as happening.

You say that you would have fixed this problem a year ago, if that's the case I'm sure everyone who suffers from this affliction would love to benefit from your wisdom.  
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wow comments are so long and so many I cant keep up. I often lose up to an inch or more. When l lose the length it is a bit thicker I think. I notice this seems to happen when I have sex a lot or maturbate too much (6x a day for numerous days) I don't seem to have any hair loss, and I don't think it is what some of you are having problems with but it is anoying, I feel a little less then my self, and EVERY ONE says that it cant happen, but I meassure the thing against my hand, and if he is not shrinking then my hand is is getting bigger on some days lol.
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421,
I did see Dr. John and will talk to him this Tuesday about the 24 hour urinalysis. In the meantime, I went to see my GP and my total T came back at 180! That is about the level of an 80 yr old. Keep in mind, I'm 35. I had to buy a plane ticket to Michigan where his office is and paid $300 for the consultation. The urine test was $225. My phone visits with him will be $50 each so.... not the cheapest route :( But, I'm pretty willing to do anything to fix the emotional issues.

Yossarian,
I am hoping Dr. John will at least put me on an anti-estrogen as my last E2 was high. It has ranged from 32 to as high as 80! Not sure why, but with my testosterone normally borderline...I can feel slightly decent on day 1 and day 2 feel absolutely horrible. Fatigue, brain fog, lack of motivation....

Mark1298,
Seriously....comments like those aren't necessary....nor mature to say the least. Some of the people who come to this thread aren't here for the penis issue at all, but for the information regarding Testosterone levels, which I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. The symptoms I suffer from are: Insomnia, Fatigue, Apathy, Memory Loss, Depression, Agitation, Erectile Dysfunction....list goes on and on. The size of my penis doesn't concern me in the least. I'm interested in improving my quality of life.

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apathetic:
Measuring against your hand will not give you a true reading of any changes but I would reccommend you dont fall into the trap of obsessively measuring and panicking which I have often found myself in.  Does it return to normal when you've abstained from masturbating?

vaiisking:
Good to hear you're at least receiving some help for your problem, even if it is costing you a small fortune in the process, and I really hope it works out for you.  

Reading your last comment I would say you have a very healthy attitude to your illness.  Unfortunately I just can't think that way.  Having always had a small flaccid penis and experienced a late puberty I was always self-conscious about my size.  

It's taken the shrinkage i've experienced to accept I fell well within the average range and was damn lucky compared to some.  The mental issue I know face is that the size of my penis is sliding down to where I always thought it was (if you understand what I'm trying to say) and it freaks me out completely.  If someone was able to say, "okay, this is what's happened, this is why it's happened and this is how bad it's gonna get" I could begin to accept it and deal with htings but until I get hese answers my imagination and fear runs away with me and I cannot help but think of the worst case scenario, which is that i no longer have a functioning penis or that it with whither away to micro-penis levels.
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Got some blood work done, although they refused to test for all the things you guys reccomended, saying it was unneccessary.

They are:

LH - 5.0
FSH - 3.0
Prolactyn - 225
Testosterone - 19.9

Is there anything unusual about these results which suggest I should keep pushing for further tests?
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I am not sure how do convert the Testosterone level, but the LH/FSH look just at the normal level. I apologize, but I also don't have a good enough understanding of Prolactin to give a decent opinion.
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No need to apologise!  From my very limited knowledge of hormones I would say everything there seems normal enough as well.

Just back from having an ultrasound on my penis.  After an injection to bring about an artificial erection they had a look and detected nothing abnormal with the tissue or blood vessels.  I am at even more of a loss than ever to explain what is going on.  I thought some sort of infection or blood flow problem might have been detected.

The pain that this artificial erection caused was incredible and, as it mainly happened after I left the hospital I had no way of asking whehter it was normal or not.  I also had to walk about with a painful semi-erection for hours, which was both uncomfortable and extremely sore.

Six hours later and its pretty much returned to normal (I get pain and a burning itch in my penis and pelvic area every day anyway) but I really wouldn't want to encounter that ever again and am just getting over it.

One humorous aside though - as I was walking about thinking "F****** h***, my c*** feels like it's on fire" I happened to look up at a pub I was passing.  It's name?  Cockburn!  Made me laugh anyway.
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Hi all, ive just found this thread, well threads 1 and 2, took me hours to read it all, and like many others reading it i am thinking THANK GOD at least its not just me! I have been trying to research my condition for the last 8month or so and found nothing until this.

I will give a brief description of my situation, i will try to make it to the point

Before first symptoms (12month ago) i was 26years old, in good health, a smoker for 14years, good sex life and libido etc etc, just a normal healthy male

I decided to try quit smoking, with the Drug Zyban, took it for a week, in this time i devolped aching testicles, i thought maybe it was a side effect to the drug, no problem as it wasnt that bad, then after 3days into the week the aching got unbearable and i came off the Zyban, my testicles felt better by the end of the week. So obviously at that time i put it all down to being the zyban and carried on smoking as usual :)

However after maybe another month the aching testicals came back....

Here is a list of my symptoms that have developed ever since, its the pre formatted list i am going to take to my Urologist when i get to see him for the first time, and by the way let me just say i have seen the doctor 3 times in the last 8month and he just kept turning me away saying it was nothing to worry about and it would go away, he's finally refered me to the urologist after this length of suffering. Also let me say that my biggest problem here is the fact my penis has shrung 0.75in in erect girth! and also about half the total volume it used to be while flaccid......
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Ongoing problem affecting  Rectum, Genitals and Bladder function

All the following symptoms started to develop over the last 12months after originally having a case of painful aching testicals that appeared for no reason and lasted approx 1week before fading away then coming back

Urine smells, also comes out in spurts and unable to push out at high pressure anymore, especially first thing in the morning

Rectum is irritated when sitting for over 30mins, giving constant urge to empty bowels and Rumbling sensations... Bowel emptying takes long time and seems restricted, no pain though.

Testicles and perineum constantly aching,  especially after driving/sitting 30mins, hurts to cup genitals in hand at the worst times.

Feeling of weak bc/pc muscles

Penis is constantly pale in appearance, thin / deflated / shrunk, seems to be starved of blood.
Hard to maintain an erection, dissapears instantly after ejaculation / loss of concentration
Loss of sensation / sensitivity in penis, also less volume of semen produced.  Penis also shrinks drastically during bowel movements now for some reason
Less nocturnal erections and of less quality.

Dehydrated most mornings, metallic taste in mouth all day everyday, dentist report ok
Generally no libido, feeling of emptiness / shallowness, no feelings from anything that would usualy give happiness, feel emotionally numb, loss of mental sharpness, concentration, low energy levels, sleep disruptions


TO Yossarian, I am in the UK also, i want to get all the required blood,hormone,saliva test done at once but i find all the abbreviatons baffling, could you please list every test i need an where to get it from, i know you have done that above but still some abbrevs dont match whats on the lab sites descriptions, sorry i'm thick with this stuff
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First of all, sorry to hear about the problems you have been experiencing.

I'm afraid I'm not the best person to ask about hormone levels and tests as what little knowledge I possess has been gained from the info and links provided by posters on this forum.

You do seem to be experiencing many of the same symptoms that those posters who suffer from low testosterone experience though.

From a quick wikipedia search I think LH stands for Luteinizing hormone and FSH is Follicle stimulating hormone.  Could well be wrong though.

Do you have a date for your urologists appointment yet?  Don't expect him to be any more helpful than your GP.  The medical profession simply don't want to know when you tell them about unusual problems like these and, in most cases, simply say this cant be happening.
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Well i go to see the urologist on the 4th October, i do want to see him first and get my prostate, testicals and bladder checked out for the obvious things first as it does seem that common ailments (uncommon at my age) like enlarged prostate could be causing my probs. To be honest i hope it is something that will be picked up on an ultrasound!

Once i have had all the scans and such, if nothing is found i will try to get all this blood work done to find anything amiss with all the different levels, then self medicate, its just understanding all this medical theory and terminology thats the hard part at the moment!

I got the first available apointment with the urologist which was 2months after i saw the doc, i just hope  i dont have to wait like 2month in between each scan or whatever, that will account for another 6-8month lost!

I have been thinking of going thru Bupa but doubt i can afford that right now.

Time will tell i suppose and i will keep things updated on here incase anything is found to be the cause of my probs
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Just a note to say, while having this condition, i have changed me entire lifestyle for the better, however it has NO EFFECT ON MY CONDITION, INCLUDING THE SHRUNK ****....

Lost 1.5 Stone in weight on a Healthy balanced diet (ideal weight now)
Stopped drinking all together
Stopped smoking for over 3month now (was on 20 a day for the last 14years)
Daily Excercise (never did before)
Vitamins / Minreals Daily etc (never did before)

I can safely say the only effect of all this is better blood circulation (not in my ****) better lung capacity and better skin.

Sorry to put another downer on anyone trying to change their general lifestyle to combat this but it wont work if your anything like me
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I've tried to abstain from drink/smoking as well and found no benefit, leading me to seek comfort in them again.

My problem is worse when flaccid and for that reason I find myself compelled to masturbate to see if I can still get something approaching a good erection.  Afterwards the problems is worse and, despite what every doctor says, I honestly feel that masturbating, if not directly causing the shrinkage, is compounding it.  I almost have no flaccid penis anymore and I feel so anxious to see it smaller and more shrivelled each day that I panic and feel I need to get it hard to measure it.  I also constantly grip the area under the glans (glands) to gauge the difference myself and feel I may be damaging the tissue by doing so but try as I might to stop doing these things to try and let my penis recover I can't and I feel like I'm trapped in a viscious circle.

Although there are noticeable differences to the shape of my glans (glands) and the part of the shaft where it joins the head, bottom line measurements show my erect size hasn't reduced a huge amount over the years (considerable loss between the ages of 16-21 and less since then).  My flaccid girth however is around 1cm less than it was a year ago with the length having shrunk by a similar amount.

Can I ask if you're in a relaionship and, if so, how this is affecting it?
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Well i know exactly what you mean, i seem to be feeling all the time just to check if its still there and got any thinner or any better, to make matters worse i have always been a grower not a shower, i.e my flaccid size as always been small but never so thin as it is now, i have lots of loose skin around the base of my penis that was never there before, if i was cold then that skin would tighten up and not been seen, if i was hot then my penis would be full enough to fill all this skin out. Its like i'm a shriveld old man! Yup i do the same with the tape everytime i get a hard on now, just to see if there is any change, i never used to measure or worry about it in the past but now i can stop myself!

Also bear in mind that my symptoms only started 12month ago and i have shrunk drastically, altho i dont seem to be getting any smaller at the moment thank god!

Yeah i was in a 10year relationship, we are now split and living seperately, she was there for me but could never really understand what i was going thru and accept it, she seemed to think it was all in my head as the doctor told me there was nothing to worry about + she always said she couldnt tell a difference with my penis in the FEW times we had sex in the last months of us being together (also i used viagra), she would say that as she knew i would be hurt if she told me the truth. I could tell the difference a lot! We was a matched pair before if you know what i mean, not anymore, 0.75in is a lot of difference in girth! :(

As for masturbating, well imo only constant "race against the clock" sessions can have an effect on erection hardness and also premature ejaculation, i know coz ive done it before, but not permanent thinning, no way, not a chance, unless you never have sex and never have a nocturnal erection for about 5years then maybe things could get a little thinner / smaller down there!

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Just ordered the following labs from nptech, wish i new about doing this months ago though :(
Hopefully something is amiss with one / some of these levels and i can show that to the Urologist when i go, who knows eh...

Thyroid Profile (FT4, FT3, TSH)
Prolactin
LH
FSH
Salivary Sex Hormone Profile: Oestradiol, Progesterone, Testosterone DHEA-s and Cortisol
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Also ordered SHBG even though i couldnt find it on the site they said they do it

They didnt know what i meant by E2 though, is there other defintions for this?
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Sorry to hear about the end of your relationship.  I really do hope this problem wasn't the cause of it.

I've been seeing a girl for four months.  Sex is fine for the moment but I fear she'll soon start to notice the difference, bringing about the conversation which I dread.

In the past i've sabotaged relationships to avoid having to tell anyone.  I've only ever told one girlfriend and that was in the early days of this problem and we were a year into a relationship and very much in love.  It's more difficult to tell someone in the early days when there's no loving bond to keep you together and try and work through this.

I really don't know what to do - I've spent so much of my life fretting about this that this time I've buried my head in the sand, hoped for the best  and been determined to enjoy it while it lasts.  Now we're starting to get mor eserious I really don't have a clue what to do.

I'm no expert on hormoes but I'm pretty sure E2 means Estragen
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vaiisking,i ended up going to dr john and right now im doing the clomid testand after that ill be doing my labs and see where to go from thare.how are things going for you?how did your labs come out and what treatment are you doing and if you dont mind posting your labs did you get your E2 down and what did you have use? .thanks

i had another thought about this what if we have thick blood from something like iron??i know that feel alot colder that most people.well just thought that i'de put that out thare.

how are the rest of you doing
have any of you found out any thing.
yossarian,i took a look at your labs and your FSH is a little low it sucks that your dr wont do all of the labs that you need  have the drs checked you iron??after i get this hormon stuff figerd out and if im still haveing problems ultasound of my penis dos not sound fun!


if you guy a list of labs that should be done and why thay are done you should go to althingsmale.com or if you have hormone??? go to the healthboards.com thare are some guys thare that know alot about them.best of luck to all of you and ill try to keep you guys posted of im doning
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No great improvement for me I'm afraid.  Sometimes I think the pain is abatting slightly only for it to come back the next day worse than ever.

Never heard that thick blood could cause problems.  I also feel colder than other people but wouldn't think my iron levels are higher than normal, although I've never had it checke dout.

What is a clomid test?
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Hi again, thought i would give a little update on my story if anyones interested.

First of all, i dont know wether to be relieved or frustrated about the fact that over the last 2 weeks most my symptoms of aching balls, perinium, low erection quality and to a certain extent nocturnal erections of all gone back to normal!

I say this could be frustrating because yesterday i went to see the urologist for the first time, as most my symptoms was pointing to prostate trouble, he did the digital exam and found nothing, i am convinced that if i was still having all the symptoms he would have found it to be enlarged or something :(

So apart from that he gave me what seems like a copy and paste reply to what you others have recieved,,,, in his words but me shortening it ---- "we are not perfoming a perfected science, i am 100% sure you are not dying from anything, almost as certain you do not have cancer anywhere, we all get older, age affects us all differently, there is a good chance you will walk away without us or you knowing whats causing these symptoms, your penis "looks" normal (grrrrr) your testicles "look" normal (yeah i know, thats not what i'm here for except the fact they are aching for some other reason thatt i have worked out myself so far) so i am sorry to say but """THATS LIFE"""......

I almost laughed when he said those last two words, but when he kept repeating them thruout the consultation it pissed me off

He did, however, say he will book me in for all the available tests to put my mind at rest.

He also pointed out something that i found interesting, he said that any kind of problems with the muscles around the pelvic floor can cause any number of problems similar to mine, he also said that they dont know much about treatment for spasmic, unresponisveness of these muscles too :(

I am having the Ultrasound on my balls today

I will be having a telescope down my **** to check my "tubes" and bladder sometime soon hopefuly (as i got the weak **** stream etc)

He said he will also consider me for an MRI but will have to wait and see.

I should also get my labwork results back anytime soon.

All in all i am still frustrated as i still left with the most worrying problem of all, a thin deflated **** while flaccid.

All i can say i have done that "may" have releived the other symptoms like low erection quality and aching perinium is:

Hot bath everday instead of a shower, and while bathing excercising my **** for about 10mins, what i mean by this is like slow masturbating but masaging the penis in outward strokes rather than fast repeated shuffling, i have also stopped masturbating normally, i mean those quick minute relief sessions that most of us get into that habbit of...

I have also cut out my caffeine and when i am at home i tend to lay / sit upright on my bed to watch TV / use the Laptop.
I have been doing this for quite a few month now so its not like an instant cure and not even sure if it has worked for the better but ive obviously not got worse :)

Ok last point to make, i can now get rock hard erections again but they only seem to be the "fullist" while i'm in the bath ffs
I also seem to have gained 0.25in back in erect girth, but this is when my penis is really hard, where has the other .5in gone???

anyways thats all i will say for now, if anything comes back from the U/S today i will post but i doubt they will find anything
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Has anyone here tried anti-fungal treatments to see if this cleared the symptoms up?
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Mitman,

Good to hear that you've experienced at least some improvement in your symptoms and I really hope that continues.  It sucks that you had yet another unresponsive doctor though.  Did he mention anything about CPPS?  I've heard that it fits with the symptoms of prostate trouble but there is no enlargement.

Morgannon,

What anti-fungal treatments in particular did you have in mind?
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Good morning, Yossarian!

I'm sorry my first posting was so brief - I too have been having the same exact symptoms that you and others have been having.  I'm going crazy trying to find a fix.

I'm very lucky in that my wife is a doctor (radiologist) and can prescribe treatments for me.  I'm trying different protocols to see if anything works.

The reason I thought about the anti-fungals is because for the first time in my life, about two months before the symptoms appeared, I had a major case of ringworm.  Had two big blotches on my thighs.  I also had nail fungus, which I have NEVER had in my life!  The fungal patches all disappeared right before the symptoms arrived, so my wife and I have a theory that this is caused by a fungal infection that has literally "gone underground".

I seem to remember that someone who had these symptoms had masturbated was getting odd filaments in his semen, like very thin threads.  Sounded to me like mycelia (fungal growths).  This also led me to believe this all may be fungal in nature.

In terms of the particular treatments, not sure what she would prescribe me.  

Morgannon

P.S.  Another thing that makes me think this is all fungal is that people who have prostatitis have a much higher chance of developing irritable bowel syndrome, which may have a fungal origin.  Also, the fact that the scrotum is inflamed and there is no fluid involved (where would it go between attacks) makes me think this is some kind of skin inflammation.

P.P.S.  I've been applying tinactin to my penis and anus, and it seems to be having some effect.  Not sure how to classify it - but the skin feels much looser.

P.P.P.S.  I am going to lunch soon - but I will be back checking this forum.  We need to stick together and work on a cure for this damnable disease!    
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I thought fungal infections appeared on the skin rahter than inside the body?  I get Jock Itch from time to time but nothing I would have thought that could have caused the penile shrinkage I've experienced.  

I do get an itch inside my penis and my whole groin area can be unbearably itchy at times however and I've been tested for evey known STI with all the results coming back negative.
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Yossarian;

Fungal infections can occur both inside and outside the body.  Irritable Bowel Syndrome, which is associated with prostatitis / penis shrinkage, has been theorized to be caused by fungal infections, to the point many sufferers take anti-fungal therapies.

The itching inside the penis and outside makes me think fungal infection too.  Have you ever used Tinactin or another anti-fungal to treat the jock itch?  If so, have you noticed any improvement in your symptoms?  I'd be interested to hear if you did - my symptoms got better after treatment.  Today, they are back, but very mild, so I'm going to apply Tinactin again and see if I get a good result.  

On a side note, my wife spoke with a urology colleague yesterday, and he's actually doing research on prostatitis.  Sounds like the prevailing theory is that urine refluxes into the penis and somehow gets to the prostate, causing inflammation.  They don't have any clue, of course, what causes the refluxing.  And he had never heard of shrinking penis syndrome.  This needs to have a name, it seems so common.
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The jock itch appears every so often so it's not a major issue.  The only thing I've put on it is steroid cream which I used for excema.  On the advice of a homeopath (I've tried just about everyone purporting to be a health practicioner) I've stopped using the cream because it's a powerful hormone, especially used in that area.

Pardon my ignorance, but what does reflux mean?

Can you tell me a bit more about the shrinkage you've endured?  When you first experienced it, how bad it's got, whether length, girth or both are affected etc.

Don't expect any urologist to know what's causing this.  They simply say it's impossible for this to happen.
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Hey guys

not been here for a while but still trying to stay positive through this although it is not easy

Problems I see are:

Too much adrenaline from low cortisol - You need the 24 hour saliva ASI for this by Diagnos Techs. I was super depressed

Low thyroid hormone activity confirmed through tests and temps - Your saliva results will give you a good idea and if your TSH in blood is above 2 this is very suspect that you have primary hypothyroidism.

Order all the bloodwork and the 24 hour urine test from IWDL showing the T3 and T4 actually used in your tissues to confirm this. Thyroid hormones in blood can actually make you look better than what you are with adrenal dysfunction! It is about £100 to get done i.e. inexpensive!

Please no more urologists - this is hormones!

The first thing you should do is check your basal temperature upon awakening with as little movement as possible put a digi thermometer under your tongue. You should be 97.8 - 98.2. Most aim for 98.6

If you fall below 97.6 there is every chance you are hypothyroid and may have low adrenal function. Fluctuating but generally low temps through the day indicate this so keep checking  

Another problem is feminizing hormones like E2, Progesterone getting out of hand. This is only natural when you are suffering imbalance in the male body. As we age some men over 40 have more estrogen in their body than women that may explain prostate conditions like BPH etc. Arimidex seems to be the best thing for lowering E2 and freeing up "bound" testosterone but not until you address you adrenal and thyroid function. Thyroid competes with E2 for cell receptor cites so low thyroid hormone activity in the cells will mess you up  

Inhibited Free T due to high E2 - This is bound to happen with these issues!

No doubt the phyo-estrogens etc in soy are bad. I tested for an intollerance through saliva and now almost completely avoid chinese food for example

All I can say is get all the testing done and do what you need to do. I am just on adrenal support and my mind feels amazing right now but being hypothyroid has no regard for your reproductive health so I am moving on with this also. Think of adrenals as the engine in the car and thyroid hormone as the the driver

My total testosterone was through the roof and I have no sex drive!

Keep posting guys, its good to see this still here
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Good to see that you're at least experiencing a mental improvement which is helping you to cope with this condition.  I really am interested to see how you get on - as I said to you before I don't think we're suffering from the same condition, as even though we both experienced shrinakge I have no other symptoms of hormonal problems - as I am willing tot try anything.  

The pain and other sensaitons I experience makes me think my condition is caused more by nerve problems, or a deficienct nerve suppy causing atrophy and other problems in my penis.

I will be taking the route you have suggested at some point in the future though, just in case.  A lack of funds means this will probably be put off until after Christmas, at which time I'll assess the treatment routes I'm currently pursuing to see if they're doing any good.

I do agree with what you say about urologists though - this is the letter I got following on from a recent ultrasound:

"the recent Doppler ultrasound scan confirms normal blood flow, which is excellent news.  No abnormality was identified within the tissues of the penis.  There is certainly nothing that requires surgical intervention.

"as the complaint was one of ongoing penile shrinkage I shall offer a clinic appointment in a year's time to reassess."

FFS - in a year's time i doubt there'll be much left to reassess.  They really are reluctant to pursue any method which doesn't fit exactly with what they read in textbooks.


Anyway, keep posting to let us know how you get on cjones - I'd be interested to hear from the likes of pmaule and anclerson who used to post here to see if anyone has had any improvement in their condition.

It's just not cricket if anyone's found a wonder cure and is holding out on the rest of us!
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Hi again, thanks for the concern Yossarian, no the urologist didnt really say anything else except what i wrote :(

Well ive finally got all my saliva / blood results back, i would really appreciate it if anyone on here can interpret the results for me, i have read both these threads from start to end but i just lose myself in all the science stuff.

Thanks :)


SALIVARY TESTS:

Oestradiol Noon 17.4* range 3.4-15 pmol/L
Progesterone Noon 101 range 40-183 nmol/L
Testosterone Noon 1175* range 175-735 pmol/L

Cortisol
8am 16.4 range 12 - 33
noon 13 range 10 - 28
4pm 10 range 06 - 11
Mid 2.4 range 01 - 05

DHEA Sulphate
8am 23.1 range 06-26 nmol/L
noon 29* range 06-26 nmol/L
4pm 26.7* range 06-26 nmol/L
Mid 25.1 range 06-26 nmol/L

BLOOD TESTS:

Free T3 5.2 range 03-06 pmol/L
Free T4 18.9 range 12-22 pmol/L
TSH 1.2 range .4-04 mlU/L

Serum LH                 2.1* range 3-8 lU/L
Serum FSH 4.9 range <8 lU/L
Serum SHBG 25 range 15-55 nmol/L
Prolactin                 95 range 23-340 mlU/L

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You need to get all this prostate aching, weak cumload shi* out of your head. I have had ultrasounds done on my testicles, rectal examinations etc and it showed nothing and probably never would

Please at the very least check your basal temp

You can contact the red apple clinic and they will send you the adrenal, thyroid and insulin kit for £141. The samples are posted out to Diagnos Techs in the states

IWDL is invaluable for the 24 hour t3/t4 urine test. They also do Reverse T3 in blood - Total £160

This is the only way to get things done

Where it gets expensive...

Thyroid Profile FreeT4, FreeT3, TSH
Thyroglobulin Antibodies (TgAb)
Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO)
Ferritin
Red Cell Folate
Selenium
Vitamin B12
Serum Oestradiol
Serum Progesterone
Serum Testosterone
Free Testosterone
Prolactin
LH
FSH
SHBG
Pregnenolone
Serum DHEA-s
Serum ACTH
Serum Cortisol
Aldosterone
Renin
Insulin (Fasting)
Adrenal Antibodies
IGF-1 (Insulin-like growth factor)

Synacthen test...

You can get all that and things will look dodgy but just having the right things tested to start with will tell you whats going on I promise you - and maybe save up to £1000 in private bloodwork

Through eating clean etc I don't have many other "little things" so to speak going on like you but this is the worst thing and is your body telling you that this is infact hormones  

I take Isocort (10 pellets) 25MG cortisone now each day and the mental clarity and sense of wellbeing is unreal. The anxiety issues etc with the terrible sexual effects of this illness were infact due to this and hypothyroidism. Everything else was quite minimal. I am in the beginning stages of my treatment protocol and am looking to start full HRT in the next month or so with my first 1/4 grain of Armour. Right now I am enjoying having my brain function back (like before this) but it is terrible having no sex drive and everything else

Get yourself checked out..
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I find it hard to judge sex hormones based on saliva; I think this should be kept to bloodwork but I wouldn't be surprised if you have high Estrogen. Progesterone maybe looks on the high end of normal for a male.. You probably do also have super high testosterone...

Cortisol

I wish they were Diagnos Techs saliva labs they seem to have a much better idea of what is in the "normal" range

Morning is 13-24, noon is 3-10, afternoon 1-8 and midnight is 1-4 with their labs... The dhea is also 3-10 so I am doing my best to interpret what you posted

Your morning cortisol looks on the low end of the range. I was like this with a 15 reading but nothing else at all for the rest of the day. This should be at the top of the range because it starts you off for the day

Noon cortisol also looks on the depressed low end of normal and the elevated afternoon reading near the top of the range shows signs of adrenal dysfunction. It is hard for me to say what stage of adrenal insufficiency you are in based on those labs.

Everyones circadian cortisol rhythm goes down at night so that is normal

With your DHEA again this looks like a wide range but you are certainly at the top of it. I had a normal 6 DHEA output with Diagnos Techs labs

This can be because of a reduced demand for pregnenolone in the cortisol pathway. The other thing is a malfunctioning adrenal gland can produce high amounts of DHEA and Adrenaline but not Cortisol and Aldosterone

This is all in context of your high sex hormones.. With that total testosterone reading I am going off there being so high you don't really have to worry about LH being low - Your brain just isn't demanding more

Your thyroid panel doesn't look terrible in blood although a TSH below 1 is ideal and the brain can get it wrong. This again is why I wish it was Diagnos Techs with the thyroid panel - what is happening at an intercellular level with these hormones. You also need both antibodies checking

Check your basal body temperature for 5 days and record the readings and post them here. I would expect from what looks like adrenal weakness with your labs that your temps fluctuate throughout each day also

The 24 hour urine t3/t4 test may be best to get a better idea; I had pooling hormones in my blood with thyroid due to dodgy adrenals.

I think you may need Isocort at least based on those labs but would get it redone with diagnos techs for cortisol and the excellent thyroid panel that will tell you what is really going on
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CJones8, please don't think I was disinterested in what you were saying - merely pointing out that i want to have all bases covered.  Believe me, if you come back here in a short while and tell me the course of treatment you've followed has worked and stopped your **** from shrinking then I'll be on it quicker than anyone.  

i have the fullest of respects for your dedication in carrying out the research you have and your determinaiton not ot let this beat you.  What we are suffering from may or may not be the same condition but i think it's healthy for everyone to be exploring different potential causes and treatments and comparing their effectiveness.

As I said, pursuing the hormones route is something I will do if i do not get any joy with what I'm doing at the moment but even if I wanted to try it immediately, even £160 is well beyond my means for the next few months at least.
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Hey Yossarian

Its just I have been down the same road as you and it is never ending. There is testing that will show things wrong with you and its your endocrine system. For a start right away I can see your Prolactin looks very elevated on the lab range. This is not good and is associated to many endocrine abnormalities

Your hormone profile will show things to be off; we have just gotten used to living with it. Are you still getting morning erections and/or spontanious erections? Even if so is this fading with each passing day? Are you forcing erections?

With hypothyroidism I have found out your reproductive health is the first thing to go. If you go the GP with these problems they will always check your thyroid (tsh) and then tell you its all in your head when you fall within a range

If you want some coping devices while you are in the dark with this I would recommend 1/2 teaspoon gelatanized maca morning and noon and L-Arginine at bedtime. This will keep things somewhat functionable and "healthy" for loads, improved sensation etc while living with this. Infact maca is good for everyone as it stimulates all the endocrine glands

This won't reverse whatever has gone wrong in your system but will help. With my situation after saliva gave me answers I failed the Synacthen test (basal cortisol increased by 12%) and had an abnormal tsh. I think tsh must be more sensitive in the endo clinic because I always fall within "normal" range with the "check tsh" although 4 is terrible. It shows bloodwork is just a quick snap of what is going on at a certain time. A 24 hour hormone profile is the best place to start for your own sanity

Think it is important to mention TSH range 0.3 - 3 in the US and 0.4 - 4.5 in the UK. It is good to know this when you get tsh checked in this country depending what your results show

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAkftY6BZS0

Have you done the fluctuating pupil test? This will tell you a lot about your adrenals and the imbalance of sodium and potassium in your body

http://www.drbate.com/Ref/thyroid.html

I would recommend reading that webpage, thyroid is the only thing that can raise your body temperature and other things. I hope you get some answers soon - I know it is devastating not knowing what is wrong
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No probs man, I understand completely what you're saying.  Believe me, I'm not just relying on the convenitonal medical profession but am pursuing a couple of other treatment routes.  I don't want to say to much until I know whether or not they work but essentially I'm going through a process of elimination with the hormone theory next on my list.  

Still get rock-hard morning erections and spontaneous erections.  This has never been a problem for me.  My penis, in a flaccid state, is probably 66-75% of the volume it was 12 years ago when I was 16.  Despite this my erections are far less affected than the flaccid shrinkage.  The past year has seen them begin to be a lot more noticably altered however.  The head is far less full than it used to be and the position of the ridge has changed, as if it was eroded by something.

I've not experienced any testicular atrophy and, although my penis is slightly shorter than it used to be, thinning is definitely my major problem.  The veins of my penis seem to sit further outside the organ than they used to and are a lot looser.  I always experienced the odd twinge in my penis, particularly when doing sports, but over the past year the pain has become almost unbearable.  I agree that prostate trouble is very unlikely to be causing my other problems but as I show some symptoms of having it (nightime urination, frequent need, delayed emptying of bladder etc) I need to get it checked out anyway and if it turns out to be unrelated then there's nothing lost and it's another one to tick off the list.

As anyone who's ever tried to explain symptoms will know, it's hard to articulate the changes which hapen to your body so that rambling "prose" was basically my latest attempt at trying to work out myself what is happening.

I read the webpage you provided, as I've done with all links you've posted.  The physician who is giving me advice on a friend-to-friend basis has reccommended i do the basal temprature test but he said it was best to do it with an old skool mercury thermometer, something I'm having trouble tracking down.  

Watched the YouTube clip but I wasn't very clear about what i should be looking out for.  it is somethign I will definitely do if you can tell me wher eto find more info about it.
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In adrenal fatigue the pupil will get small but within 30 seconds it will soon enlarge again or obviously flutter in it’s attempt to stay constricted. Adrenal insufficiency can result in low aldosterone which causes a lack of proper amounts of sodium and an abundance of potassium - imbalance causes the sphincter muscles of your eye to be weak and to dilate in response to light

I found it hard to track down an old school thermometer and found the digital one does its job anyway. I put it under my tongue

Are you dribbling urine also? The prostate stuff sounds like E2 is off with the ratio to other hormones

I will use megazoid as an example. His saliva cortisol was ridiculously depressed through the day with an overall cortisol burden of 13 Range is 23 - 42. Also had a normal 6 dhea production

Its ironic how similar our body builds and labs are with low FT3 and a high TSH. In blood Megas TSH was 2.5. When he felt normal before all this it was 0.6 - I think this would be similar to me only I didn't have previous bloodwork and have also ironically had a tsh of 2.5 this year.

He also got some sex hormones checked like Mitman - E2/Estridol: 12 Range (1 - 3 pg/ml) and Progesterone 265 Range (5 - 95 pg/ml)

When cortisol is not being made the building materials are often used for other hormones on a divergent pathway. Looks like this is going to E2 and Progesterone

There are roid users I have seen on mens health forums who complain of "Deca ****" because this elvates progesterone in their system. It is simple to understand that too much of any feminizing hormone in the male body will cause atrophy. This is why cocaine users get shrinkage through the fight or flight stimulation of the central nervous sytem leaving huge progesterone!

With the Andropause in older men as an example you will find raised SHBG, lowered Free T as a result and high E2. This is not good for your package in midlife onwards, thyroid function, prostate or anything else we don't know about. This is why people talk about lowering E2 to increase bioavailable T and improve general health and wellbeing as a result
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Hi, thanks for the quick and detailed reply! I seem to be in the same boat as Yossarian here with symptoms, direction of what to do next but also the money aspect of all this!

I would go get all the tests done you have listed in the blink of an eye but i just dont have the funds right now, i thought that the tests i got done should have shed some decent light on the situation but seems it has not :(

So would you basically recommend that i get all these other tests done/redone in one go before i actualy try taking any action? As you did mention that "isocort" but not sure i want to try anything until i am sure

Everythings getting to the stage now where i cannot even remember how i used to feel mentaly and physicaly before all this started to happen, its really frustrating and i dont seem to be getting any closer to finding anything out :(

I will do the temp tests you suggested, also i got to say you seem to have your head screwed on with all this CJ, wish i did!

Keep up the good work, this forum / you guys are all i got to keep me going right now....
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The thing is with Diagnos Techs in the states they have been perfecting saliva labs since the late 80s. The saliva ASI is still relatively new here and you notice the difference in the ranges of what is "normal" etc. People in the US also often get diagnosed based on them so they are very accurate.

Your cortisol should have started at the top and maybe slightly above the range and maintained a steady rhythm through the day. The afternoon reading contrast with the other two "low-normal" readings definitely shows a problem

http://redappleclinic.co.uk

I wouldn't start Isocort if you take your saliva labs through them - this will effect the results and you will need to come off it for 2 weeks before testing. I would also like to see your FT3 in your cells (active hormone) It told me a lot about what was happening to me.

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/288847

I would recommend reading through that thread on the board also to get a better understanding of this illness. WDW29 who posted this thread is a GP trying to make sense of it all and has been told in the past everything was normal. Infact he thought thyroid function was normal until full tests showed he is Euthyroid. This is why Reverse T3 and 24 hour urine is also important to cover everything

http://iwdl.net

I am treating my adrenals with Isocort and am taking it from here with them additional thyroid tests from iwdl for peace of mind. I feel very good on Isocort at the moment despite all this - it is good stuff.

I would be interested to know your basal temp; this tells you everything to be honest if you have low thyroid hormone activity (hypothyroidism).

The worst thing you can do is put too much pressure on yourself to look and act normal while you are taking nothing - this is not normal! Stocking up on viagra to save face won't do anything for your self-esteem. I would take a good few months self-reflection - Your head is messed up because of your body and it is that simple  

If you post the results I will suggest what to do next. If you feel you can't wait you could start Isocort and get the thyroid labs later but it is good to see all these results together. I would like to see those thyroid tests and your basal temp posted here

http://drkalish.com/shop/item.asp?cID=29&PID=94

This is a good description why adrenal support is essential if your adrenals aren't putting out.

http://drrind.com/forms/tg_blank.pdf

This is the best way of plotting your average daily temps (not basal) Every 3 hours after you wake up try to take your temps at the 3 set times each day add them up and divide by 3 (not including basal) - mark it on the graph

http://drrind.com/forms/tg_sample.pdf

This shows a good example how to monitor yourself with this. That is the best action you can take without further testing right now and when you start taking something...
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Hey man, cheers for the further info.  Have had a look over it and did the pupil test.  My pupils didn't fluctuate as dramatically as on the clip but they did appear to "pulse" a little.

I get paid next Friday and one of the first investments I'll be making is a thermometer, digital or otherwise.  I'll keep posting my results here for you to have a look at.

Do you reckon that will give me an idea if my adrenals are out of whack and whether or not it's worth getting the tests done?  The only problem I foresee is that I've got a lot on in the next month (stag weekend, weddings etc) which might make it tricky to take regular temprature readings.  I don't want to try anything that would be rendered pointless because I couldn't commit to it properly.

Oh, as for the dribbling urine question - not really.  Sometimes it feels like it's dribbling out because it takes so long but I've never left with embarrassing patches after I've pissed.
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http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=12149 - That is a good way of understanding the many different stages of adrenal insufficiency

With healthy adrenals, your pupils will constrict and will stay small the entire time you shine the light from the side (not the front) This is a good self-test to do but doesn't rule out adrenal fatigue if you don't miserably fail it

Yossarian your basal temp will tell you a lot about your metabolic health (adrenals, thyroid) but don't do it if you have the flu or drinking the night before or anything that will raise your temp. You can be quite relaxed about taking your temp while you are not taking adrenal support or anything. People plotting their temps are usually checking to see if they are stable with adrenal support before starting thyroid to raise it to healthy levels. I am not treating thyroid yet and wake up with a 96.6 basal temp and before adrenal support I could be in the 95s. I am very hypothyroid like Megazoid and had to find out myself through reading up on the tsh range

look for that 98.6 by mid-afternoon. If your temp is higher, it could also be a result of antibodies attack on your thyroid - that would make it wise to do the two antibodies tests to confirm or rule out Hashimotos Disease. Saliva checks the TPO antibody for this because it can start and stop in the beginning stages making bloodwork unreliable...

Thyroid - Diagnos Techs (saliva), Reverse T3 (Blood) and 24 hour T3/T4 urine. What is most seen with thyroid blood tests is a "normal" panel (tsh, ft3, ft4) but you are obviously not right and full tests will show the problem. The tissue levels of these hormones are infact low probably due to untreated adrenal insufficiency. A tsh can be worthless...

You need to treat adrenals before thinking about anything else. While you are not taking anything you don't have to be too speciifc with temps. Checking basal and if your temps are generally low or low and fluctuating through the day will tell you a lot. I can't stress enough how important this is

If you are getting tests the saliva profile will show exactly what state your adrenals are in. I hope I am giving you the rope you need to get to the bottom of these issues  

I appreciate the financial strain and everything but you have an illness and surely want to get the right tests done and start living again asap

I am interested what is causing this with you since you said its been a progression of 10 years or so since you were 16

Keep posting whatever questions you have and I will do my best to answer them..
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TSH - 2.18 (0.3 - 4.2)
Free T4 - 12.1 pmol/l (11 - 22)
Free T3 - 4.8 pmol/l (4 - 6.8)

Someone posted these labs recently on another mens health forum; look at Free T4 and Free T3 now you see why TSH can be a load of shi*? The test just isn't very sensitive in general and blood doesn't travel well.

There is no "conventional" medicine here. It is making sure you get diagnosed properly - If you were in the states we wouldn't have to educate ourselves with half as much of this information because they are on top of things and insurance would cover most of it
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Got the digital thermometer at the weekend and started taking my temprature first thing in the morning today.  Got a reading of 95.7.

I'll be posting an update at the end of next week because that's when I'm on a stag do and taking an enforced break from this.
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Hi Yossarian

That is a terrible reading - suggesting to me you are very hypothyroid. I look forward to your update on this and its good to converse on here generally I hope more people start posting again

Keep in mind the average "healthy" person has a tsh of 1 or less according to studies and the brain can get it wrong. There are plenty of people with this tsh being diagnosed with hypothyroidism. If you have a free thyroxine reading like the previous post with symptoms you are living in a very hypothyroid body - this terribly effects every cell, organ and tissue of your everyday life. Then there is the flipside of longterm adrenal depletion that can cause pooling of these hormones in the blood making you look better than you really are. That basal temp is a good gauge to start with - there was a guy who posted on a forum before taking a whopping 400 mcgs of thyroxine and still living in a hypothyroid body. Reason being his adrenals were not supported and his basal temp didn't budge

When you get the cash together I would get the 24 hour saliva profile and then later maybe a full thyroid hormone panel in blood including the two antibodies by nptech. You have made a start to getting to the bottom of this...  
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I really hope that's true.  As I said, I'm willing to try anything but am merely reluctant to rule anything out.  I would have already got the tests done but in the past few months I've had my hours cut at work and my flatmate has moved out.

It's good that the treatment you're taking has started to sort out the mental and emotional problems caused by this condition, have you noticed any improvement regarding shrinkage, ED etc?
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Cortisol is a very calming hormone so Isocort has felt very good; I am now mostly avoiding chronic shrinkage but my thyroid nightmare is quite severe. I have no sex drive like Mega and others  meaning ED because you never really get started. This kills your reproductive health - shrinkage, getting strange penis shape and no libido is beyond words

It is hard trying to live a normal life like this really; soul destroying...

I subconciously "found out" this was hormones before tests and this forum by accident you could say. Last year I paid a sex shop £26 for 20 vigorex forte capsules; you take 2 a day i.e. total rip off. But this gave me my penis back and some libido all be it until I ran out after less than 2 weeks - it seemed madness to pay that amount for what you once "expected" from yourself. I found this very "mysterious" that didn't make accepting this illness any easier

Anyway I think this worked by freeing up bound testosterone, lowering E2 maybe even "improving" thyroid function and things we don't know about as a result. I have shopped around online recently for a cheaper supplier for "relief" maybe for all of us right now. I don't know if it will be as effective for me now since my sexual condition has worsened quite considerably over time with this illness... I notice with you, mitman and myself - the total testosterone we have is not a problem that is a good sign that testicles and pituitary function is ok. The adrenal problems and thyroid dysfunction means E2 is probably out of control. The pituitary can't tell the difference between this and testosterone so it is probably outcompeting our T that won't help with shrinkage and those of us suffering with chronic ED

I am looking to start Armour thyroid before this year is out - It is all about replacing what your body is not making and as we know this terrible condition is an everday thing. That is the best perception you can have going for better right now on the path were you need to be

It should be pointed out again also literally no one should have to suffer these horrific symptoms and hopefully we will all get through this shi*
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Re: your earlier comment.  It would be good to see some of the people who used to post here back, hopefully reporting great improvement but as you know it's a fine line between having somewhere to discuss it and get support and letting this problem become an obsession.

I'd be able to handle this a whole lot better if it wasn't for the chronic pain reminding me every five minutes that I've got a problem with my ****.

I would like to know what my E2 level is but the doc wouldn't order it.  I even tried managed to trick the nurse who took my latest blood sample into requesting it but I got a letter back saying there was no need to measure E2 levels.  No matter - I'll get them done myself once the festival of consumerism is out the way.

I really feel for you re: libido and ED.  Thankfully I've never suffered either but i have noticed that it takes longer than it used to for my penis to get up to what I would say was a full erection.
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Got some good news to report - I have been taking cipro (500 mg twice a day), and my prostatitis symptoms have completely disappeared.  I've also been having the shrinking penis syndrome, but it seems to be getting better with the cipro.  I also take 2 cranberry capsules (dosage I forgot, will look it up tomorrow) and 1 zinc tablet (50 mg) once a day, and that has helped considerably - don't know if I've gotten any length back, but it sure feels like it.  I used to have this terrible sensation that my penis was literally crawling back up inside my body - that sensation is now gone!
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Getting pain in your d*ck, prostate etc is definitely not good. Sexually all our symptoms have been similar even developing chronic ED was a process for me. When you say it takes longer do you mean with stimulation visual or otherwise in terms of a spontanious erection? If you search the real thyroid help forum I posted a log there how I got to this stage with the help of others. I thought prostatitis or something initially for a long time but was barking up the wrong tree. We are young guys and I feel my "fertility" has even become an issue because of this illness. I stocked up on so many suppliments you could fall over them

There are things I wouldn't even want to talk about this illness has caused me no end of serious physical stress...

Knowing E2 is out of whack is good to know but before reaching for an aromatase inhibitor that could cause more harm than good you want to know your thyroid and adrenal status. This naturally messes it up anyway. With a normal/high Testosterone output we shouldn't be suffering any of these symptoms in theory

Morgannon - I am glad you are getting some relief I never took cranberry capsules but for its effects on the urinary tract system and vit c it is all I drink and water. I have never walked the road of Zinc but have read about its effects on the testicles and prostate - seems to make sense to suppliment with this if anything while going through this. For every 50MGs you need  2 MGs of Copper because it lowers this. It also helps keep Estradiol down...
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Do you mean spontaneous as in with a partner?

Despite my penis being about half as volumous flaccid as it was 10 years or so ago, the erect size hasn't changed all that much.  It took an initial battering but for a number of years now it's reached roughly the same length and girth when erect.  I really can't explain it better than this - as the penis has shrunk it appears to have gained in elasticity.

I say roughly because there's a couple of mm difference which I've noticed when measuring of late.  Again, a couple of mm may seem like nothing but when the only thing you've been clinging to is the fact the erect size has remained pretty much unaffected it's terrifying.

That said, there has been a definite change in shape of my erection over the years, with the head particularly not as full as it once was.

Lately I've been getting an erection which is a pale shadow of its former self but, if I'm maturbating or with the girl I'm seeing it seems to recover to the old stage (minus the mm or two I mentioned earlier) after it has been stiumulated for a long time.  This never used to be the case as I used to get an erection and that was it.  Now it takes longer and longer to reach maximum potential.

Sex isn't much of an issue at the moment but if it keeps taking longer and longer to get fully erect, and if the erect size and shape continues to reduce, I'm terrified my girl will notice sooner or later.  She is in every way possible amazing but I'd rather split up with her thna face that conversation.

Apologies for rambling on and on again but this is the only place I can vent my feelings and try and articulate my symptoms, as this condition is so friggin weird that I still dont feel I can adequetly do that.
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Don't worry about it bro, I have literally no one else to talk to about these issues so vent on here as much as you feel neccessary. I was wondering how in tune your erections are to your thoughts and stimulation generally without and with a partner - it sounds like things are slowing down quite a bit. Measuring your erect length suggests you have noticed a slight although very real visible change with this also. It is hard to intellectualize these problems don't worry about it

I know how weird/ironic and strange this is for "being a man" - When my body now "decides" I can get an erection it is the same as before although with sensation issues. I am also quite large (not to be vulgar) erect that makes this whole thing more frustrating. It took a lot of "accepting" losing sex drive and not feeling like a functionable man. Living like this is quite brutal, I couldn't face another "relationship" until I am hopefully better

One of the strange things is getting more attention since this condition. It must be the "lost dog" look or something. I have missed out on an amazing girl who could be a model and several others who would turn any guy on. I at least now feel I am getting some control over the situation because it can take over your life and the depression of this is quite severe

Since you have seen a urologist like myself I would think this would rule out any kind of plaque build up, bph and peyronies setting in despite your erect shape and head appearance changing also. All I can think of is hormones effecting bloodflow to your vital organ and other things... To be on the safe side you could get some Vit E and Zinc from Holland and Barrett to see if this helps for now and keep things as "healthy" as possible. All the prostate stuff etc seems to make me think hormones also effecting this area. I know it is weird to visualise hormones can do this to you but it is responsible for sperm production and from that libido for reproduction so it seems most likely. Your lowered metabolism (basal temp) points to this also with thyroid/adrenals. How do you feel in yourself generally? I know it is hard to feel on top of the world with the sexual stuff but I would be interested in any other symptoms like tiredness, nightmares, fatigue, mood changes, skin, dizziness or whatever you mention...
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To be honest I'm constantly fighting a battle to stay off weed (almost winning as well I might add) so things like nightmares and mood changes have been part and parcel of my life in the past six months.

I have to say that other thna this I'm in decent shape.  Cutting back on dope has meant I get more exercise, eat better and am not smoking tobacco.  I'm a touch overweight but get walk at least three miles a day, eat plenty of fruit and veg and drink over two litres of water a day.

I still eat too much red meat and other fatty foods at weekends and will have a good drink at least once a week but I think my intake of all things good and bad for you compares favourably to most people in Britain.

Other than the fact my **** is getting progressively thinner I'm fairly happy with my lot in life.  You say it's more frustrating because you're well-endowed normally - I don't know if you'd see it that way if you'd always been towards the smaller end of the average spectrum!

The pain is the only thing that makes me doubt this is caused by hormones.  The feelings I experience is similar to those caused by a trapped nerve and this is why I've also been looking at the effect of pudendal neve entrapment and other problems.  

I know exactly what you mean about being reluctant to face relationships.  I've saboutaged a few in the past because of this problem but this time I thought "**** it, I'm gonna have some fun while I still can".  I've known and liked her for years but she was in a long term relationship so I couldn't think any further.  She'd not long split up with him when we got together so I thought this was just gonna be a bit of fun for a couple of months while she got over it.  There's no way I thought we would last the near-six months we've now been seeing each other and so I never felt this would be an issue.
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The best example I can give with sexual health and hormones is middle aged men with high estrogen in their bodies ( a lot over 40 have more than women) developing prostate conditions like BPH and even suffering shrinkage (yes this does happen) I have spoke to men at other health forums about the cause of this and it is not unusual. If it was just down to ageing (aging) and sex hormones an aromatase inhibitor would not be out of the question. With that saliva profile (adrenals, thyroid) and a sex hormone profile by Quest Diagnostics (they do Estradiol Ultra-sensitive) this will give you a very good snapshot of what is going on. Free T and Estradiol would be interesting to see but more so the cause of this and having sex hormones out of whack obviously doesn't help.

Without the sexual baggage my life wouldn't be half as stressful. Before all this came along I had an uncontrollable sex drive and I developed late so can't believe this is happening sometimes. I can't remember the feeling of walking around with a full hormonally fuelled d*ck that had a mind of its own. It shows Testosterone is very important but there is more too a mans sexual health when other things get "disturbed"

I have stopped worrying too much about what I eat; I just eat sensibly and although comfort eating has become literally just that I am quite well kept despite all this. Although I am slim I am quite toned and muscular and my basic pathology doesn't look bad at all. I have noticed a few strange digestive issues and things now to certain "junk foods" but nothing I can't cope with

You should definitely give up smoking if you are worsening in a sexual sense also this won't help. Mental and emotional problems could tie in with hormones also and weed is just a smokescreen for this although I don't know about the effects of this on hormones in general. I believe it does cause problems. The first time I noticed actual shrinkage was the day I woke up after smoking a spliff because I was depressed with developing sexual problems but no shrinkage at all until then on... Walking around with a semi-erection to this illness is beyond words, again it is all relative to how we have all suffered individually. I am interested if  you feel debilitated by exercise, does this worsen shrinkage? adrenal depletion will do this

I don't know how many urologists would examine you until telling you it is "all in your head" Possible physical causes like vein leakage etc would have been picked up so this will add to your stress of not getting answers. You also can still function sexually that is a good sign although the thinning is worsening that is worrying. I remember getting anal soreness, dull prostate, testicle aches and could never understand it. Infact it looks like everyone posting here has been through these kind of symptoms along with the shrinkage young and older men

It is good you are now happy in a relationship but it seems this has obviously and not surprisingly effected your self-esteem. Best to find out sooner rather than later than be posting in a years time with fulltime chronic shrinkage and a total sexual nightmare added to the list.  
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Hey guys. It's been awhile since I posted here. I am still suffering unfortunately. I was wondering if a condition such as hypothyroidism could be the culprit to decreased libido and shrinkage. I have low t4 levels and all the symptoms of hypothyroidism (dry scaly skin, dandruff, hair loss, constipation, weight gain, muscle weakness, lethargy, etc.) . I had a 6.2 level on a scale of 6.1 -12.6 being normal for t4 levels (hence why the doctor didn't diagnose me with hypothyroidism). As we all know, almost all doctors will say you're "perfectly healthy" even if you just barely fall into these so-called "normal" ranges. I was wondering if a synthetic thyroxine hormone medication (which are cheap) could treat my symptoms. I'm sure it will fix the skin and metabolic symptoms, but what about the sexual symptoms (shrinkage, low libido, and poor erections)? Are these due to my pituitary not functioning properly, or could they also be caused by the hypothyroidism? Thanks.

Good luck and hang in there guys. You're not alone. Things can only get better....
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cjones:

Believe me man, I'm trying to give up the weed but after 14 years of smoking it's difficult.  The biggest problem is that all my friends toke and complete abstinence would mean cutting contact with them.  I always felt shrinkage was worse after exercise but I always attributed this to blood flowing tot he muscles being worked.  The last time I went to the gym my **** was pencil thin when I pulled down my shorts and went to shower and, following a full-blown panic attack caused by this, I haven't been back since.

Recently I have been experiencing tight muscles all over my body despite the fact the exercies I do is never more strenous than walking.  I don't know if any of this has anything to do with adrenal depletion.

Anclerson:
Sorry to hear you're still suffering.  cjones84 has posted extensively about hypothyroidism and other hormonal issues.  I'm sure he'll be able to answer some of your questions.
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That is a long time but it would be interesting to see what happened with the shrinkage if you took a few months off. The only thing I could suggest is something like a few hypnotherapy sessions to get you through staying off weed. The gym is sheer cruelty when even light jogging is enough to make you lose your penis! I have suffered panic attacks in the past also. Muscle aches/stiffness/joint soreness and the like again sounds like low thyroid hormone/adrenal depletion. Things are definitely not right we know that much. Mental emotion has a lot to do with adrenals I have found although being hypothyroid also doesn't help

Anclerson have you done 24 hour saliva? Your T4 level is in the dirt and with the symptoms you are suffering sound very hypothyroid. Find out the state of your adrenals then get the Synacthen test to see if it is primary or secondary. Aldosterone, Renin and DHEA-s (blood) will confirm this for you. What is your tsh? Being in the states most doctors recognise that anything over 2 is suspect for primary hypothyroidism although bloodtests can appear ridiculous at times with thyroid function. Libido is the first thing to go with thyroid (usually) and constipation is a big sign of this because it causes a sluggish gut. Thyroid hormone effects bloodflow to EVERY organ in your body, cell and tissue. It literally is everything. If you are having problems with adrenals also and converting T4/T3 as a result Armour thyroid may be a better option than Thyroxine to get you better. Doctors can be ignorant huh! some will tell people with ME they are perfectly healthy with free thyroxine readings like the t4 you posted right at the bottom of the range.  
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How are you feeling guys? I have been through some deep depression these past few days; it is really hard seeing friends and random people in relationships and thinking about all this going on. It is hard to find a logical explanation how this can happen to young guys. I am not surprised the suicide rate is rising each year in young men if they suffered anything like these conditions

Anclerson I forgot to mention lowered metabolism compensates for what is "essential" to your body for survival. I don't know why reproductive health is not part of it. I know E2 is a real bad guy hormone in the male body when too high or low I am so paranoid about this. I want to get better sooner than later. This is like punishment...
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All I can say is I know exactly how you're feeling and I hope it passes soon.  It's feckin awful when you start looking at the world in that way but you have to remember that you are doing your best to fight this and refusing to let it beat you.  You're dealing with it better than most would, so keep up the good work mate.

Basal temprature update:

Day 1 - 95.7, 2 - 96, 3 - 95.9, 4 - 95.7, 5 - 96.1, 6 - 96.4, 7 - 96.1, 8 - 95.6, 9 - 94.7, 10 - 95.9, 11 - 96
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To be honest I don't know how to describe the way I feel anymore, its almost numb of emotion having been like this for way too long. It is certainly not healthy but thanks for the encouraging words its appreciated. I am doing all I can to stay strong with this.

Your basal temps look like mine when I self-monitored for a little over a week. Did you put the thermometer under your tongue or armpit just out of interest? When you get the cash aside get the 24 hour saliva this definitely justifies it. All your temps are low and average out at 95.9  
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Hopefully that above spam gets deleted. These are serious endocrinogical disorders that aren't cured by a blue pill. The worst thing about being hormonally fuc*ed is that no one can see it like I read someone explain on another forum. Some days I hate myself intensly because of this and am now ready to start thyroid this coming week. All the dysfunction has got ontop of me and living like half a man is no life or way to spend your 20s. This is in no way an ideal situation but I pray things get better for all of us and we don't have to suffer this anymore. Knowing what is wrong doesn't make it any easier after a while...

Best wishes to all
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Hi all just checking in. Saw another prostitute a few nights ago, could not get erect again. When she was sucking on my penis, she may as well have been sucking on my finger - I could barely feel it. When I FINALLY got it hard, it went down as soon as stimulation stopped... I hate this ****.

Only good news is that I made up some homemade ZMA (zinc, magnesium and B6). I remember waking a few times with about an 80% erection which is great. One other thing grain of hope is that of all the women I have been with, each has been completely shaved ... which turns me off, I prefer a bush. Whenever I masturbate it is to women with bushes .. so maybe if I find one I will become excited enough and not fail

^ I know what you mean by emotionally numb. I feel like I have turned myself off for the past 3 - 4 years. I don't remember the last time I genuinely had a good laugh with mates. For me everything is forced and fake these days, and its an effort.

All the best to everyone
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One question I'd like to ask, to anyone suffering ... do you have a large vein on your penis? Like one which is not just a tiny bluish one, but a thick chord like vein. I did, and for me, this vein was leaking blood. This caused my flaccid size to be very small, and erections were poor (especially the head which could not hold any blood). I had this vein embolized and it has helped quite a bit - my erections are still poor and take a long time to create, but it feels better and fuller now, and more pleasureable to me instead of COMPLETELY numb.

Just a thought, maybe the shrinking is due to too much blood going out and not enough staying in. This sounds bad but it can be rectified if the vein is easily findable, as it was in my case.
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That is a harrowing story I couldn't go down that road even if I wanted to I feel so out of it, burned out totally. Sorry about the vein leakage and going through that procedure, most if not all of us have been checked out by Urologists first and foremost. Some people like Megazoid got a varicocele on the testicle that down regulated everything including sex hormones. The damage caused by varicocele is frightening and endocrinologists should do more to support these guys and others through better education and research



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Just back from a heavy weekend and the difference in size between Friday and now is frightening.  Alcohol definitely seems to make a big difference, which is why I drink much less these days.

Wruined - I had an ultrasound which showed normal blood flow but poor circulations is one of the causes of atrophy.

cjones - things are so bad that I'm going to bite the bullet and get the tests done.  Can you set out exactly what I should do, where I should go, what I should get checke dout etc in a point-by-point stylee
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Hi Yossarian
I will try and make this as simple as possible because these are complex issues afterall or can seem that way at times

Step 1 ----> www.redappleclinic.co.uk Get in touch with these and they will send you the 24 hour adrenal/thyroid and insulin kit for £141. They send your results to Diagnos Techs in the states, these labs are VERY accurate. Thyroid uk think the thyroid panel could be better than blood because it is at an intercellular level. With adrenals included it will give you a clear picture

Step 2 -----> www.nptech.co.uk Order the full thyroid panel including both antibodies to compare to your saliva labs. You just get blood drawn by a nurse and send it to the lab to get tested. It is also good to check B12, Ferritin, DHEA-s and Adrenal Antibodies.

Saliva (step 1) includes intollerance checks for Gluten and Soy for "free" in the panel above so don't worry too much about the other intollerance tests in blood here. Candida Antibodies is a good one to get checked if anything. It is good to have at least one thyroid panel in blood for personal reference if nothing else

Step 3 ------> You may want to get referred to an NHS Endocrinologist based on saliva alone through your GP but this can be frustrating since they are often obsessed with "normal" hormone lab ranges more than your suffering.

If you do go this route get the Synacthen test or arrange one through the next step below with Aldosterone and Renin. I am assuming you have adrenal depletion right now and a one off basal Cortisol from an unwilling arm often doesn't tell you anything other than you don't have complete adrenal failure. If you get the Synacthen test make sure they check serum ACTH with Cortisol BEFORE the injection and draw on 30 AND 60 minutes to check your adrenal function. Be outspoken! This is common practise in America with depressed saliva labs.

You have a right to know if it is primary or secondary because with secondary adrenal insufficiency cortisol replacement is for life because the adrenals don't get the messages from your pituitary to produce it adequately for you.

Step 4 -------> http://www.thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/pages/doctors/private_doctors.html See the right doctor. They will send you the best list possible to treat you, excellent website and organisation. You can get Reverse T3 tested from IWDL through thyroid uk among other things. Just make sure to start with step one it will tell you a lot! You could also get things like E2 arranged if you wanted through a private practioner that would be interesting to see with everything else.

Having personal experience I would avoid step 3 since you are often never considered an "emergency" with these issues or treatment options. The waiting is punishment in itself as you have been through with seeing different Urologists. Some UK Endos also don't "believe" saliva  although it is constantly used here now for researching illness and dna - make of that what you will.

Untreated adrenal insufficiency can cause all kinds of problems with autoimmune illness, hypothyroidism, developing diabetes, and food intollerance so it is good you are getting checked out now. There is nothing so far that suggests your testicles or pituitary are not working so you may save some cash at least in maybe choosing not to check all the sex hormones again.

Hope I have been some help, hang in there! Feel free to ask any questions  
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Hey buddy
It is a pain having to watch how much you drink and even visiting the gents at times with this has caused immense fear to the point of shaking. Finding the cause to your problems is the first step you can make to get better. Elevated prolactin usually ties in with hypothyroidism and becoming infertile - it is good you got this checked since your total testosterone is ok but obviously you are not ok

With 24 hour saliva do it on a normal working day like the second sample at lunch time and go the toilet in the afternoon period to be discreet making your collection then finally at night that will be at home like the first sample

http://www.thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/pages/diagnosis/blood_tests.html - Read all of this
http://www.thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/pages/diagnosis/current_tests.html - Section c) and d) is invaluable reading as you scroll down this page. This is stuff we all need to know with interpreting bloodtests like checking AM cortisol is meaningless without the Synacthen test

http://thecanaryclub.org/content/view/196/52 - I should mention this for everyone as another source to get checked out by the Diagnos Techs laboratory
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A few guys here have said they've given up drink as a result of their condition - what's been the result of this?  

Has there been any improvement in the symptoms as a result?

The reason I ask is that, as mentioned in an earlier post, alcohol definitely seems to at least make things worse for me.  The pain I exeprience always seems to be worse in the early part of the week, immediately following a weekend where I'll be drunk at least once.

The other thing is that the weekend is the time when I'll most likely have sex and also, thanks to the hangover horn, masturbate most often.

I've tried to keep track of what makes my symptoms worse and whilst this is pretty inconclusive (the shrinkage seems to happen regardless of what I do) there does seem to be a slight correlation between drinking/masturbation and the rate this is progressing at.

Even if it's not them that's directly responsible for this condition, they certainly appear to make things worse.  Looking at causes in terms of an elimination diet I would say that heavy-ish masturbation and drinking are the only things that I've done continually before and since this problem started.  In saying that though, I drink a fraction of what i used to so if alcohol was such a contributing factor I would have felt there would have been at least some improvement in the symptoms as I've cut back.

Problem is that alcohol is so woven into the social fabric of our society that I find it impossible to avoid without becoming a recluse.  As for masturbation I find that the horrific rate of shrinkage when flaccid often panicks me into masturnbating so I can measure and check everything is more or less fine and working (I would say that erect my penis is 95% what it once was compared to about 65% flaccid)

Anyway, I'm really interested to hear other people's thoughts about what makes things better or worse for them.  I think it's really important we find out what helps and hinders us, even if it makes only the slightest difference, until we get to the bottom of this
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Hey Yossarian.

While I don't suffer from the exact same symptoms as you though I'd chime in...

For me, my penis definitely becomes bigger flaccid after a few beers. However, if I drink HEAVILY (Which for me is about 8 + beers) my morning wood the next morning will be non existent, and I will be smaller flaccid for sure.

Have you tried taking cialis to help your problem? It should help keep fresh blood going into your penis, and for me it makes my flaccid size bigger. So maybe consider buying a batch, taking half a pill every 2 or so nights and see how it goes. At the very least I am quite sure it will help keep your flaccid penis full, which is great atleast mentally, and who knows since it is staying fuller 24/7 maybe this will stop the shrinkage.
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For me it's the opposite.  On Saturday I was horrified when I went to the toilet for the first time during the session.  My **** had shrivelled down terribly (shrinkage also seems aided by a full bladder and holding off when needing to urinate) and that was after a few drinks.  

This generally gets worse as the session proceeds but my mind is normally on other things (ie not working properly due to the alcohol!) and I'm able to forget about this problem for once and relax.  This is part oft he problem I have with stopping drinking altogether - yes, it may help reduce the atrophy but in the short-term it enables me to relax and forget about this horrible disease and provides a much-needed release which allows me to keep functioning as normally as possible.

Masturbation/sex is pretty much a double-edged sword for me as well.  They appear to make things worse when the penis returns to its flaccid state but when I abstain for even a few days the erect size is definitely impacted upon, and it takes a few "go's" to get it back up to near where it should be.

As for the Cialis - my ultrasound showed normal flood flow into the penis so I'm not sure that's necessarily the problem.  I'm also taking a numbe of supplements (Omega 3, Vitamin E and Zinc) which are designed to improve citrculation, particulary to the capillaries.
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Hey guys
You are doing all you can we are all biochemically unique and with these things "triggering off" there are a lot of things out of sync. The best way to describe it is your body not caring about your reproductive health right now. I hid away in social drinking too Yossarian for some time to free my mind and feel more normal with this. No one may be able to see it but this is a very debilitating condition and we are all having to face up to it...
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Dehabilitating is right. While I don't have the exact same problem, anything that effects feeling/function of the penis is extremely distressing.

Hey Yossarian - even if the tests have shown up as normal I am convinced you would benefit from cialis use, just to stop your penis from turtling so much. Even if there are other underlying factors, like hormones causing the shrinkage, at the most basic level blood is going out of your penis whichever way you look it. I think the C will help you since I notice my usual shrinkage from adrenaline/heavy exercise is a fair bit less dramatic when I have taken half a c within the past 2 or 3 days of performing
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I think that's the biggest problem - it's debilitating but so personal and taboo that you can't speak about it.  No matter how sorry people felt for you they would still have a giggle when you're not around if you told them.

I think the point i was trying to get to re: drinking is that i would be perfectly willing to forego alcohol if it meant some improvement but I'm loathe to stop leading as normal as possible a life for no difference.  

Wruined:

THe problem with that tactic to me is that I would just be kidding myself on and delaying the inevitable.  The shrinkage would appear less dramatic because there's more blood in the organ fooling me.  That's how most penis enlargement scams work - the penis isn't actually getting any bigger it's just more blood fills it temporarily giving the illusion of enlargement.

Don't mean to knock it if it's genuinelyy working for you but i would be worried that it ould just shrivel away to where it would have been anyway as soon as I stopped taking the Cialis.
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No worries pal just throwing ideas out there.
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Another negative development - as of yesterday it hurts when I retract the foreskin.  I first noticed this when masturbating but it's happening when flaccid as well.  it isn't as if the foreskin is too tight or anything but just that, as it's rolled back over a certain point there are very locallised pains on the skin and on the head itself

To be honest the pain isn't unbearable but is enough to again make me question just how bad it, and the shrinkage, is going to get.  

It is the first time that there seems to be a direct link between something I'm doing and the pain/shrinkage though and perhaps backs up what I'd thought about there being some link between over-exertion and these problems
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Getting pain there is the weirdest thing isn't it? And you can't tell anyone because they would think you are mad but your not. You are a bit of an inspiration keeping it together for 12 years like this, maybe sexual function has gave you that bit of a boost to hold out. Just living is bad for these problems really and medicating your condition is not always easy. I hope you do the 24 hr test because your basal says things look dodgy and one time there were no blood tests so it is a good measure of things. I hope you get it right. I wish more of the old users like Anclerson would post as I think they have also tested positive for untreated hypothyroidism and such. It would be good to know how everyone is doing dealing with it. I also understand those who bury their head in the sand because I did this myself, it is terrible
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Cheers for your mind word man.  Yeah, the fact my thang still works and, after an initial dramatic loss, gets up to almost full size is the only thing that keeps me going.

Problem is, as I've said before, when I see it getting smaller flaccid every day it leads me to panic, masturbate and measure.  This is what has caused the foreskin retraction pain.  I've noticed a slight tear on the frenulum, caused no doubt by obsessive measuring and the tape cutting in.

It's no major problem.  I'm sure if I calm down with the masturbating/measuring it'll sort itself out
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been a relatively long time since I posted which is due tot he fact I've had little to report.

Although the shrinkage continues, the pain has been much less sever/frequent over the past couple of weeks.  I don't know why this has happened as I've been getting osteopathic treatment to see if the problem is caused by trapped nerves which serve the penis, taking massive amounts of supplements and also following a homeopathic treament.

I realise this seems like hocus pocus to a lot of people (and I can almost see CJones shaking his head as he reads this!) but I'm trying anything on the off-chance it works.

One thing though - I've beent rying to cut down on masturbation due to the torn frenulum but wanted to keep blood flowing to the penis.  THis means I've been watching porn without actually getting interactive.  I had an erection when doing this last night but when it started to subside there was a strange numbness, like pins and needles in the head and surrounding area.  The erection was pushed against my jeans in such a way that the head probably never got as much blood as it should and never went fully erect.  As much of the shrinkage/pain I experience is in the head and just underneath I wonder if it is any way related.
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Hi all,
I cant seem to find the shrunken penis thread so I'm posting my blood test
results here in the hope you will see them.
The readout means nothing to me
and some of the info might not be relevent but I just copied the
printout below.

My symptoms are my penis and scrotum has shrunk by approx a third over 2 years.
I have a constantly swollen stomanche
My previously very thick hair is now dry, thinning and receeding despite have brothers with good
head of hair.
I have uncomfortable bowell movements.
I have put on weight around my stomache and breast tissue. I was very thin before
I have numbness in my penis, anus, and all around that area.I get no sexual pleasure from
touch anymore all over my genitles. I can still gain a erection and ejaculate but the
pleasure is not a fraction of what it used to be and often do not gain a feeling of
complete physical satisfaction after orgasm.
I also seem to have a dull numbness on most other parts of my body. my nipples
are not sensitive and I am no longer tickleish. Things that felt nice before such
as my gf playing with my hair now just feel numb.
I am feeling very down. Probally depression.

I have seen neurologist, uroligist and had tests. Everything is "normal"
The latest is it's in my head which I know it is not.
There is obviously something wrong.

Here are my results anyway. I would really appreciate all the help you can
offer.



erythrocyte sedimentation rate
thyroid function test
liver function test
urea and electrolytes
combined pituitary function test


haemoglobin estimation          16   g/dl
reb blood cell (rbc) count      5.26   10*12/L
mean corpusc. haemoglobin (MCH) 30.4    pg
mean corpusc. hb. conc.         34.8    g/dl
haematocrit                     0.46
serum testosterone              15.9  
serum cortisol                  477
mean corpuscular volume         87.5    fl
erythrocyte sedimentation rate   5  mm/l
total white cell count          7.27   10*9/l
platelet count                  219    10*9/l
percentage neutrophils          57.7 %
percentage lymphoctes           30.7 %
percentage monocytes            9.1  %
percentage basophils            0.3  %
percentage eosinophils          2.2  %
serum free triiododthyronine level   5.2 pmol/l
serum free t4 level                  16.4 pmol/l
serum tsh level                      2.96 miu/l
serum total bilirubin level          16  umol/l
serum alkaline phosphatease          72 iu/l
serum potasium                       4.7 mmol/l
serum sodium                         139 mmol/l
serum calcium                        2.41 mmol/l
serum creatinine                     97 umol/l
serum urea level                     5.5 nmol/l
serum total protein                  80 g/l
serum albumin                        45 g/l
serum globulin                       35 g/l


I had a previous serum tsh level test on the 20/4/2006 which was 1.69 miu/l
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I have this problem.

I made a post about it in this forum. But my case of penis shrinkage comes from overdevelopement of legs. Basically the way I think my legs and thighs are so big and heavy that they press on my sexual organs , somehow alter the blood flow which causes the shrinkage.
Maybe some of you can notice the same traits. For me it started with heavily developemt and overall growth of my legs, *** area so much that they start to press on my sexual organs.
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Yossarian;

I'm so very sorry I haven't replied in a while.  My symptoms got so much better that I really stopped thinking about this all the time.  They are almost totally gone now - however, I notice I have to do two things to make the peen feel better:

1.)  Taking 100 mg/Zinc per day
2.)  Once-daily anointment of Tinactin anti-fungal

Anyway, to answer your previous questions

>>>The jock itch appears every so often so it's not a major issue.  The only thing I've put on it is steroid cream which I used for excema.  On the advice of a homeopath (I've tried just about everyone purporting to be a health practicioner) I've stopped using the cream because it's a powerful hormone, especially used in that area.>>>

Just for experimenting's sake, can you try a trial application of Tinactin to the affected area?  I'd be very interested to see if you notice any improvement.

>>>Pardon my ignorance, but what does reflux mean? >>>
Hehehe sorry I spoke doctorish again :)  Reflux basically means urine is flowing backwards into the vas deferens (or so the theory goes) and into the prostate gland, causing inflammation.  

>>>Can you tell me a bit more about the shrinkage you've endured?  When you first experienced it, how bad it's got, whether length, girth or both are affected etc.>>>
I started experiencing it back in April.  My erection size so far has been unaffected, but I did notice a couple of structural changes to my penis which were disturbing:
1.)  My penis always bent to the left as far back as I can remember.  However, it now bends more dramatically - whereas before it was bent at the base and if I just pulled it straight it would look normal, now it seems like I am actually filling with blood more on the right side of my penis than my left.
2.)  I have noticed new bright reddish veins appearing on my penis shaft.
3.)  My tip and scrotum seem to always be bright red and inflamed.

>>>Don't expect any urologist to know what's causing this.  They simply say it's impossible for this to happen.>>>
It's definitely not impossible, we're living proof it IS happening.  Don't get discouraged by the urologists, they frankly don't know any better than the rest of us.  What we need to do is try to gather as much info as we can in order to get this thing treated properly.  I'm really wondering if this isn't something that a urologist can treat, but maybe a vascular specialist, since the problem(s) seems to be blood flow to the penis.  Have you seen one yet?  I just got on a PPO so I'm going to take advantage of it and see one myself.

Your friend in shrinkage,

Morgannon
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Hi Morgannon

Please could you take a look at my post just 2 or 3 up from here and let me know if what you are taking might benifit me?

Many thanks.

p.s anyone heard from Megazoid or cjones for a while?
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Vazz;

How long have you been experiencing this problem and what age are you buddy?  I don't know anything about how circulation can be affected by limb size but do you mean your legs are too big from muscles or fat?

Morgannon;

Is that not quite a dangerous amount to be taking?  Anything I've read about zinc suggests taking no more than 15mg/day, maybe up to 60mg for specific reasons.  I'm currently taking 15mg a day along with Gingko, Vitamin E and Omega 3 oil

Anyway, if it's working for you I'm glad.  I may well try the anti-fungal you suggest - did you have any pain in your penis?

Not so sure about prostate problems anymore.  I've cut down drinking and weed and this has helped with my toilet habits.  I'm urinating a lot less frequently and having less problem starting.

The biggest vascular difference I've noticed is that some veins now seem to sit outside the shaft whereas they were once contained within the corpus cavernosa.

Although there's been a more dramatic difference to the flaccid size, my erect girth has finally started to reduce in recent months.  This caused me to panic massively but also look at my situation in a different way.

In the time I was obsessively measuring I began a relationship.  At first sex was okay-ish but I had trouble bringing her to climax.  I was terriffied that it was because my penis was thinner than it once was as I never had much problem with previous partners.  Over the seven months or so we've been going out my penis has undoubtedly gotten smaller but a) she hasn't seemed to notice and b) as we've gotten to know each others bodies the sex has become amazing and I now regualrly get her off.

This has lead me to conclude that the differences I have noticed, whilst most definitely occuring, are not so dramatic as I panic myself into believing they are.  IAlso, obsessing over this matter hasn't helped over the past 12 years so it's not going to help now.  've thrown out the measuring tape and resolved not to continually check my **** for signs of atrophy and let it take over my life like i once did.

In fact, I rarely look, even when I'm peeing these days, which has allowed me to forget about what is happening a lot more and get on with enjoying life.

That's not to say that I'm not still worried.  I still experience a lot of pain in my organ and groin area, which simply must be a result of the same condition which is causing the shrinkage.  

I'm more convinced than ever that there is some link between what I'm experincing and masturbation/overuse in generall.  I'm not saying this is what's causing everyone's symptoms but there definitely seems to be a correlaiton between the number of hand shandy's/shags/amount of time spent erect generally and the pain, leading me to think I must have damaged the tissue in some way.  I know all the medical knowledge suggest this can't happen but I can only tell you what i notice happening to my body.

Therefore, it's my New Years resolution to keep from obsessing - for the moment at least I'm happy-ish so long as my girl is.  I'm going to abstain from "episodes of self-pleasure" and keep myself for the real stuff while I can.

I'm still going to keep searching for answers and check this forum regularly to keep people updated with progress as well as offer support to anyone suffering from these horrible conditions.
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Also,  think everyone should check this link out

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5192806.html

Does it fit with anything anyone has read about before?

Mya prove to be false hope but it does actually seem to attribute some scientific reasoning to penile atrophy.

I've tried to email the guys behind the patent but have so far received no reply.
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AFOD;

I'll run your readings by my wife (radiologist), and see what the normal ranges are.  I've not yet gone through the tests myself, so not sure if we have similar readings or not.  However, your description of your condition is ringing a bell.  Now, I'm not a doctor, but I read up on this stuff...hehe that sounds scary :)

Anyway, from what you describe, I'm wondering if you have excess estrogen.  I don't see any tests up there that test for that, but again, I'm no doctor.  Deposition of fat in the breast tissue sounds like excess estrogen or some other hormone imbalance.  Thinning hair as well.  I'd get tested for adrenal sufficiency as well if I were you.  Hope this helps.

Yossarian;

I've seen recommendations from 15 to 150 or more mg of Zinc per day as a safe dose.  I'm actually getting some stomachaches from 100 mg a day, so I'm going to be reducing the dose to 50 mg again, which seems to be high normal safe dose consensus.  I saw a post in this forum where some guy was taking a very high dose (want to say it was over 250 mg) and had no adverse symptoms, but that seemed very risky to me.

Regarding penis atrophy - that is an eye-opener of an article.  I'm still wondering if we have some sort of vascular problem, too, since we seem to be noticing venous inflammation (phlebitis) in the penis.

Do you take any kind of anti-depressant?  Phlebitis seems to be a side effect of certain A/D drugs.  I take Lexapro, and I'm not about to quit - that stuff is the only thing that keeps me normal mentally.  However, I may attempt to reduce my dosage.

Morgannon  
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Whoops, sorry forgot to answer your question about pain in the penis.  Yes, I had it, but don't anymore.  However, I have noticed I have some sort of tissue thickening on the right side of it, and it bends to the left - sounds like Peyronie's doesn't it...

Morgannon
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It does sound like Peyronies - really hope that's not the cas ethough.  Have you had an ultrasound or saline erection to test for it?

I've been on anti-depressants in the past but i never noticed any worsening/improvement of the **** symptoms as a result.  Also, this was happening long before that, on both occassions I was only on tablets for the minimum duration and it's continued long after I stopped taking them.

Have you showed that article to your missus?  As a physician she might be able to shed some light if it's possible or hocus-pocus.
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I actually need to get an ultrasound or saline erection scheduled.  If it is Peyronie's, then at least I know it's not going to do much more than crook my penis to the left.  

Good thing to hear the anti-depressants didn't cause anything bad.  I'm on 20mg of Lexapro for ADD/OCD and have to stay on this stuff for life.

I didn't show the article to the missus, but I did ask her if she knew or had heard anything about penile atrophy of any sort.  She basically said that she had never heard of something like that, but then again, she's not a specialist in that area.  She said an endocrinologist or a vascular specialist would be the best person to run that by.  Unfortunately, she's been so busy in the finaly year of her internship she hasn't had much time to talk to anyone.  She will be starting at an excellent clinic in Indiana shortly (July of this year), and she will have lots more time and opportunity to talk to people there about these things.  

Did you read that article from Megazoid?  I can't remember or find the hyperlink now, but it was very informative about varicocele.  Sounds like all of the penis problems can be attributed to lack of testosterone, which could be caused by good old Mr. 'cele.  
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Although I never read the specific article, I have read a fair bit about varicocele and I have to say that none of the symptoms register with me.  Have you got a link?

Interestingly I've heard from someone else suffering atrophy that has a sympathetic endocrinologist.  His theory is that says it's a disorder resulting from a missed signal in the pituitary gland upon the onset of puberty, causing a regression in penis size.  

This might not fit with the symptoms of everyone but might make sense for some of us younger guys who first noticed the problem around the age of 16.

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I wanted to know if being unfit and masterbating (masturbating) alot at the same time could shrink the penis?
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http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/76938-varicoceles-new-research.html

That's Megazoid's post.  Very interesting reading, and makes a lot of sense, really.  

I'm almost 40, so my syndrome is probably not connected with puberty (but I don't know for sure).  I still need to get an MRI of the head, since I was having panic attacks for a while, and fuzzy memories, etc.  

Morgannon  
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Rocko,

Being massively overweight will make the penis look smaller but there won't actually be any reduction in the size of the unit.

As for masturbating, doctors will tell you that it can't be harmful but I'm convinced there's some link to the shrinkage I've experienced.

Morgannon,

Will have a look over that later.  Don't know about varicoceles but I've got a few cysts in the sperm cord.
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Yossarian;

Did you have a chance to look it over?  Pretty interesting stuff.

Yeah, I've got cysts on the spermatic cords too.  Couple of very small ones.

I'm so surprised that there are so many symptoms we all have in common, yet the doctors are stumped.  You would think that all this data would help.
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Had a look over it and I'm still not convinced that Megazoid's excellent research is related to what I'm experiencing.

I don't have any testicular atrophy or many of the other symptoms related to varicocele.  I have no loss of libido or problems getting an ereciton.

Penile shrinkage and pain which began some years after the atrophy started are the only REAL problems I have.


I often wonder if there's some relation between the cysts and the shrinkage but can't make any connection
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I don't have the testicular atrophy either, although I have some loss of libido.  Erections are not hard (no pun intended) to get, but are painful sometimes.  

I wonder if varicocele is perhaps a side effect of whatever is happening in the penis.  

Have I asked what the pain feels like before?  Odd question, I know, but I think the pain can be different for different things.  For instance, my pain feels like a tenderness in the testicles, and an aching, draggy feeling in the scrotum.  

Morgannon
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The pain is of the sharp, shooting variety felt at seemingly random points in the shaft/head.  There are other pains I experience, that are duller in nature and feel like they're deeper in the tissue but the sharp ones are the most common and worrying - on a bad day I'm feeling them literally every five minutes.



Testes feel fine although I do get the same numbness/pins and needles in my scrotum and testicles as I get elsewhere on the body if I've been cutting off blood flow, which sometimes happens when I've been sitting for prolonged periods.
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Oh my God, regarding blood flow, I thought I was imagining things.  It seems like ever since these problems started, when I sit on my kiester for a long period of time, my crotch/scrotum/penis go completely numb, and then when I stand up I can feel the blood rushing back in.  I never had that problem before.  Kind of lends itself to a circulation problem diagnosis, doesn't it?

So have you had any luck recently in terms of self-treatment or prognosis?  Either I'm used to the symptoms now, or my Saw Palmetto / Zinc / Vitamin C regimen has helped.  And I'm pretty sure it's the Zinc.  If I go without it a couple of days, my penis starts to ache and scrunch up.  Then I pop a Zinc pill, and a couple of hours later, presto!  Out he pops like a rabbit out of a hat.  Well not quite like that, but you know what I mean!

Morgannon
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Things come and go.  I've upped m zinc increase as advised by yourself but I've epxerinced an increased buzzing sensation in my penis and balls since doing so.

Still getting pain but I'm perhaps feeling it a little less regualarly than before.  I've felt I was on the right track before, however, only for it to come back worse than ever.

I'm trying not to focus too much on this and have stopped obsessively looking/measuring/gripping to check for any changes to the extent I dont even look down when I'm peeing or in the shower so I can't say how the shrinkage is progressing but from masturbating I can telly ou it is still happening to some extent.

Have been reading up about saw palmetto and I'm gonna get some to see if that helps any
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Morg,

As of today I've added Saw Palmetto to my intake of supplements.  Don't know if this will do any good or not but if it does it may help you work out whether it is the zinc that's helping you.
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Saw Palmetto's good stuff indeed!  I've been taking that for a long while myself.  Seems to help.

Went to the doctor yesterday.  They did a prostate examination on me, and she said it was entirely normal (maybe slightly boggy, but 99% normal).  This actually upset me a bit, because if this shrinkage/atrophy is not caused by prostatitis, what is causing it?  There is so much misinformation out there regarding the prostate it's not even funny.  No one seems to know much about the penis at all nowadays.  Very very odd, considering how much emphasis we place on it in our culture.

I'm going to get some bloodwork done and see what they find.  While I'm in there I'm going to ask for the same tests you did Yossarian, to see what my readings are so we can compare.  Can you give me a quick rundown of what the recommended tests are?

Morgannon
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I know how you feel.  Every time you go to see a new doctor, or get a new proceedure carried out you can't help but get a bit excited that this might be the time they find something and can start treating it.

I've had a doppler ultrasound (locla aneaesthetic) and a saline erection and x-ray (general) performed on me.  I would think your condition, with curvature and other symptoms pointing to peyronies will make you a candidate for the saline erection.

Both test the ability to get an erection and blood flow to the area.  In my case they said circulation was fine.

I've also had the briefest of hormone tests carried out on my blood.  In the UK its hard to get anything more done than what the doctor is willing to do on a cost-by-case basis but if you're in the US your medical coveage might extend to more extensive work of the type Megazoid and Cjones know about.

That's all I know really.  Sorry I couldnt be more help
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I'm astounded at the amount of pain that the human body can experience when there is supposedly nothing wrong with it...when you're experiencing it, you'd swear that something is exploding / falling off / etc., then the tests show that everything is just peachy keen.  Very frustrating.

D'oh!  I forgot to mention the bent erection to the doctor yesterday.  Dangit!  Ah, well, I've got other issues to address first before I return to that.

I'll check out Megazoid's post and get his info on the types of hormone tests.

You've been VERY helpful Yossarian - just having someone going through the same hell and willing to talk about it is very helpful indeed!  I'll post any test results once I get them.

Morgannon
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Okay mate, good luck with the tests.  It seems strange to say this but I hope they find something wrong with you!  Providing they can offer a reasonable course of treatment of course!

CJones post about the tests to get done lays out things in a fairly simple fashion - you might find it useful.

It does help to talk to someone going through the same thing.  I wish that some of the people who used to post would do so again, just to make sure they're okay and to see how they're getting on.
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Unfortuantly urlology is a science only starting to properly develop IMO. There is no doubt everyone on this thread has something not functioning quite right, even if at this stage it can't be pinpointed. Just because the docs say it is fine doesn't mean it is, we still have a LOT to learn about the human body.

Some good news from me though. I have been wearing a **** ring to help erections. I have gone to not being able to get it up to literally being able to pound away indefinitely (well, only up to an hour because thats when I take it off for safety reasons)

It's great
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Glad you're getting at least some function back mate. I remember you had a problem with the veins in your penis but did you ever suffer from shrinkage?

I agree that urology is still starting to develop and although, I know funding is tight and we've got to concentrate on things like cancer first, I really wish it would develop faster so we could get some respite from our various conditions.

I've really been trying not to obsessively check/measure my penis and avoid looking at it as much as possible so i don't get freake dout by every little change but this means that every time I do the difference is worse and my freak-outs are more intense.

Today, I caught a glimpse of my **** flaccid and it was hard to believe it was the same one I had when I was younger.  This leadme to get it hard to check and I noticed, not for the first time that the skin of my glands was peeling off.  Anyone else noticed this?

For years the reduction in girth was mainly wehn flaccid with my erect size pretty much holding steady.  That's all changed now and I'm starting to experience erect shrinkage at a much faster rate.

I really don't know what to do.  I'm trying to live as normal a life as possible but am dosing up on supplements in the hope they'll at least stem the tide but nothing sems to help.

I have a girlfriend at the moment and, although she's never seen me flaccid, I'm terrified she'll notice now that erect atrophy is happening.  I know I shpould be honest with her but I just cannot bring myself to raise the subject in case I frighten her off.

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Thanks mate. I never experienced shrinkage, but it is difficult to really tell since I had my problem since childhood. My penis continued to grow without erections. Growth may have been stifled, but it is still grew to a  normal size. It has not shrunk since it reached adult size, but I would guess I only stopped growing about 2 years ago anyway ... it may actually still be slightly growing, I'm not sure.

Can't comment on the glans (glands) peeling, never experienced it myself. I don't have any new advice to offer mate, but I still wish you all the best in recovering.. Keep using the supplements, and make sure to drink lots and lots of water. This seems to keep my flaccid full.
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hello a let me start by saying thank you all, i thought i was alone with this problem now i know im not i feel a little better.
just like everyone else i have been having problems with my penis shrinking over the past 5 years it has gone from 8inch down to about 5inch on a good day, i also suffer with the burning and itchy sensation, and in the last 2 years i have noticed a dent at the base of my penis, and on top of that i have no sex drive no more and i mean its zero i have no urge at all and when i do manage to get a semi erection there is almost no sensation and i lose what erection i had.
i have not yet been to a doctor i have been buying viagra of the net for the past few years and its got to the stage that they will not even help, if anyone out there has some advise i would really appreciate the help, and again thank you
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Avatar_m_tn
Hey man,

First thing to say is you shpould always go to see your doctor, no matter how embarrassing a complaint it might be, although in this case there's probably nothing they will do.

Still, the more people who complain about this the more chance the medical profession will start to take it seriously and the more chance we'll find the one urologist/endocrinologist/other doctor who might just know what's causing this.

Unfortunately there's not much advice I can offer you.  I've tried just about everything over the years and nothing seems to work - my penis is still getting thinner.
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Avatar_n_tn
8 inch is normal

5 inch is normal

that is what the doctor will say


32 inch waist is normal

42 inch waist is normal

that is what the doctor will say






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Avatar_n_tn
Why aren't there any pictures of shrinking penises on the internet , or why haven't you or anyone else complaining of the condition posted pictures

I have had the problem for 1 year  , I know what caused it - excessive mastubation and I felt it shrink while I was sleeping on the same day, trying to arouse it just made it retreat more

I was unable to get an erection after this and the small size made it difficult to clean also the foreskin had remained the same size of course but the penis was smaller causing urine to remain

Urinating is probably the first thing you will notice a change with , as it will leak on your trousers and over the floor when previously it extended far enough out of the trousers to do the job without mess

of course this urine caused balanitis as that was the GP's diagnosis of the problem


I think you mentioned earlier that you masturbate to reassure yourself that you can get it to a reasonable size erect - how long have you refrained from masturbation - would that make a difference ?
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I can only assume that the lack of pictures/knowledge of this subject is because it is so rare/new and because the medical profession refuses to accept it happens.


How old are you bud?  Also, how much have you shrunk and do you have any pain?  Is this still happening and are you still masturbating?

I guess the longest I've ever refained is about 5/6 days.  Probably not long enough to make any difference

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hey guys i dont have that condition myself but it must suck big time... Ive read only a few of the posts so i may have missed it, but are any of you on or considered penis enlargement exercises (jelqing) or an extender? it may reverse/encourage growth. cheers
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Don't you agree it would be useful to see a photo of a shrunk penis , you seem to have had the problem for 10 years and only recently bothered to do anything about it - I am considering taking a photo of mine flaccid

I'm 37 and only had the problem for 1 year

I have probably only masturbated once in the last fortnight (I became interested in a woman 2 weeks ago so not interested in masturbation or porn at the moment) before that I mastubated a few times per day but only going far enough for ejaculation once per day - so it's early days the penis seems a bit thicker after abstinence (and longer when flaccid)

before the shrinkage I mastubated a lot more , but now I just stroke the sides to get it hard rather than pulling the foreskin back and forth as I am scared it will disappear into my body

the penis was like a jelly wrapped in foreskin when flaccid

no pain really but I would say it is a bit sore



"posted by megazoid on May 04
10) Do you feel like your penis has came loose at the base and can move around allot more freely? "

when masturbating I would say the foreskin goes clockwise and the penis anti clockwise as if it is dislodged

perhaps the ligament has been damaged by masturbation

I will measure my penis - are you asking for erect measurements ?

I did visit a private GP but he said there was nothing wrong with it , it is certainly the case that male doctors do not like looking at patients penises and seem to think that men are obsessed with penis size - I just want an average size one
It was a waste of my money

It looks like I will not be masturbating for a while so I will see if it improves after a month
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"you seem to have had the problem for 10 years and only recently bothered to do anything about it"

I first noticed this when I was about 16, 12 years ago and a year after Is tarted masturbation.  The first time I visited a doctor about this was nearly 11 years ago.  First urologist I saw not long after that.  Have had scans, x-rays, blood tests, measurements taken etc.  Have now seen four different urologists and have spent my entire adult life searching for a diagnosis/treatment.  For the past five years I've trawled the Internet almost daily looking for information.

Glad to hear you're not experiencing any major pain.  Hope it stays that way.  Keep me updated as to how the absitenence affects you.  My problem is that when I see it's gotten smaller in the flaccid state then I panic thinking about how these changes affect my erect size (which is the only one I'm really interested in) and so my attempts to stay away from masturbation fall flat as I need to get it hard and measure it.  Also, getting an erection provides at least some temporary relief from the pain I experience in my penis.

The thing about shrunken penis pictures is that it would only be of any use if it was next to pictures of it before the shrinkage began.

I know what you mean about doctors just thinking you're paranoid about size.  I'm not even bothered if mine is a bit below average - I just don't want it wasting away to nothing.
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OK - just a quick reply

I think I hit the nail on the head with your mastubation habits

"my attempts to stay away from masturbation fall flat as I need to get it hard and measure it"

after 12 years of having this problem - don't you think it is worth it abstaining from masturbation for a while eg a month (I assume you will still get morning erections so will know the size from that)


"The thing about shrunken penis pictures is that it would only be of any use if it was next to pictures of it before the shrinkage began."


are you saying that your penis is a "normal" size then  ? eg within the range that looks normal in other words it was at the large end of the scale before  - but is now at the small end of the acceptable scale

if your doctor had not seen your penis before the shrinkage would he just say thats a normal size penis

flaccid mine is 3 inches and just under 1 inch of that is foreskin with no penis inside it , in other words 2 inch penis - 3 inch foreskin and it was only about an inch long at its worst point

before the shrinkage I had no problem getting my penis out of my trousers to urinate , but I can no longer use the urinals


You have seen several doctors - have you paid for a private consultation ? it may be case that the NHS isn't interested in this type of problem , a lot of men pay privately for circumcision because of the NHS's attitude to the issue


without pictures people will say you are imagining it
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after 12 years of having this problem - don't you think it is worth it abstaining from masturbation for a while eg a month (I assume you will still get morning erections so will know the size from that)

My morning erections have never been as big as the one's I get when aroused.

My penis is still withing the normal range although it has slipped down the scale clightly over the years.  Erect it's around 1-2cm thinner, flaccid it's about 60-65% what it once was.

Saw a private urologist who seemed as clueless as his NHS counterparts.
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Hi there.Cheers yossarian for leading me to this forum as i am a major sufferer of this shrinkage as well.Mines got so severe that i dont know what to do about it anymore.Has a solution or anything been found yet or What are people doing about this?
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morning erection = 5 inch long and circumference is 12 cm - that was measured by wrapping a piece of paper around it

If I had used my hand it would have been bigger I suppose


en.wikipedia / wiki/Human_penis_size  top right photo - I would say mine is similar to that


the wikipedia article indicates that my penis is of normal size so I have to assume the problem is in my head even though I know what caused the shrinkage and felt it happen while trying to sleep

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_penis_size


5 inch erect length is normal 4.85 inch erect girth is normal

3.5 inch flaccid length is normal according to wikipedia

so it may be slightly too small flacid
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your previous post ;


"and here i am now.23 with a half an inch penis soft and 3 inches hard. "

yes that is very small , I suppose your scrotum is bigger than your penis

what caused your problem and do you masturbate ?
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Avatar_m_tn
Guys,

I don't know how many of you are interested but I've started a blog dedicated tot his subject.  I hope to develop it into somewhere everyone can share their experiences and the info they've gleaned.

http://penileatrophy.wordpress.com/

Please help support it - would be good to see some of the old posters like cjones84, Meagazoid, 421 etc checking in to let us know how they're doing.
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Thought I'd join this. My problems started on and right after quitting finasteride(Gefina 5mg) as my genitals went completely numb and new veins emerged along my shaft. After 8 months the feeling has returned to 80%, but the texture of my **** is still greyish, rough, my **** is narrower and points to the left and the new veins are still emerged and old veins sit more loose. After quitting fin my T-levels also crashed and I developed gyno and gained like 30 pounds in a few moths and felt like complete ****.
My libido is still gone and having an erection does not even feel ejoyable. Plus my **** is always dry now, no pre-*** to speak of.
A urologist diagnosed me with PD and prostatitis.I've nearly killed myself over this many times, but forums like these help a bit. I have no doubt in my mind that fin caused this. Just a warning.
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Avatar_m_tn
Sorry to hear that man.  Please don't do anything rash.

What is finasteride?
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