ECT negative side affects.

[joshua12]

two years ago after experiancing panic disorders, ECT was sugested.. i feel i was fed a massive about of disinformation regarding this "treatment"... i have suffered severe memory problems... cognative problems... and a feeling of empty headness  ( not having words and images run through my mind... i have to talk to myself now to think"  on top of that feel like a a totally difrent person... i feel the ECT in itself was tramatic... if anyone feels they can offer any advise... or can relate... or has recovered from this please let my know.
Thanks

[Roger Gould, M.D.]

I would recommend that you ask for some psychoneurological testing to assess the exact kind of difficulty you are having because there may be something that can be done to help you with that knowledge.

[Jaquta]

Hi
I was threatened with ect while I was sectioned under the mental health act (after I had my leave revoked after a 'significant' suicide attempt after a traumatic discharge).
I was not given ect (I went to court to fight that.  I felt powerless and the doctor I felt was extremely abusive.  I can't emphasize the extremely part enough).  
I agree that ect (or the threat of it) can be extremely distressing and traumatizing.
I've developed nightmares, etc from this incident.  I became extremely obsessed with ect and read everything I possibly could, which then extended to lobotomies, etc.  The images were very vivid and graphic.
I had to get the video 'One flew Over the Cuckoos Nest'.  It was like reliving the whole thing all over again.

I have often wondered whether there is a difference between receiving ect and being threatened with it.  I can't remember the facts concerning simulated ect now.
When I was told by the doctor that he wanted to give me ect I felt like my brain was already being fried.  The power of suggestion and association can be very high.

I read a year or two ago how a prominent expert in this field who had frequently presented material saying ect was safe had recanted all that and was now saying it isn't and never was.

The majority of people I've known who've been given ect have had no regrets.  They all think it has benefited them.  A few have complained about memory loss though.
I often wondered if they didn't experience side-effects from ect because they were so well medicated.  I think there is a tendency for some psychiatrists to over-medicate.
I had this philosophy when I was first depressed that all medications should be trialled on doctors first.  I felt that would limit the prescribing (if they got to experience the side-effects first hand.  Not very practical I know).

Perhaps some counseling or a support group would be beneficial.  They are big changes you mention and represent huge losses.

I feel like I am a totally different person too now.  I feel the threat brought about many changes -some good, some not so good.

If I look at my life too hard, or analyze it too much, then I start to feel extremely angry, depressed and much much more.
I find focusing on what I am doing now in this moment is enough.  Sometimes beyond that gets too overwhelming.
I could recommend a book that could inspire you to focus on who you are now.
It is called The Precious Present, by Spenser Johnson MD.  (I hope I spelled it right).

I just wanted to offer sympathy for your losses and your struggle.

J

[joshua12]

i wasnt sucidal i threw a plate one evening due to a panic attack i was having... ECT was sugested before anything  else (DBT.. anysort of coping skills) god forbid i throw more plates... looking back now i feel the ECT wasnt for myself- but for the people around me... whom were afraid of my plate throwing potential... i feel its not in my best intrest that i do such a thing... i just feel they jumped on the chance to shock me before anything else.


Most people i feel are taken of their medications when being shocked. They shocked me while i was on clozeral-- an anti psychotic--- cause they felt it would be more effective.. i feel it was the combination that did the damage... i guess some people are just more suseptibie to negative side effects than others somehow. thank you for your sympathy. i have recived very little since being shocked most everyone whom i talk either doesnt get it you they say "just get over it"  i feel as though i was violated in some sence or raped... its a feeling that has followed me everywhere... it was a horrific experiance.. i dont know... i feel totally lost... the psychiatrist they always suger coat ECT feeding one bs disinformation... i was told i would only have memory problems around the days following the treatment... that i caused minor convultions... and cognative skills werent lost...

it wasnt till after that i heard that intent was to erase ones memory to one would forget whatever was causing the depression to begin with.. unfourtunatly one cant choose what they forget from this treatment and in deleting ones memory they loose whatever wisdom they gained through such experiances... i dont know..

i'll look into "The Precious Present" Thanks

-joshua

[Jaquta]

Hi Joshua

Maybe the book isn't appropriate, but it does say that you are enough and have enough now.  I just feel it's really important for us to accept ourselves as we are now (not as we used to be).

Health professionals don't always understand the behavior and interpret it based on their own experiences and training.  Our perspectives are often very different.

When I was first admitted to hospital I was agitated and restless in the evenings.  The weather was extremely hot, the ward was airless and I was probably going through significant caffeine withdrawal.  Tossing and turning at night was considered self-harm and I was physically and chemically restrained.
I think frustration and lack of good communication (understanding) played a part too.

Staff thought I may have had an eating disorder and then suddenly nurses report that they hear me vomiting.  I was plenty of other stuff but I was never physically sick.
People interpret things as they want too.  We all have biases.

My understanding was that ect was only indicated for severe depression (especially when psychosis was present).
When I was in hospital over 25% of in-patients were receiving ect.  Some had schizophrenia and some had it just because they liked the anaesthesia.

It is poor that ect be recommended as a first line of treatment.  It is reprehensible that they not give you adequate or appropriate advice and support.  Patients can be extremely vulnerable and should not be taken advantage of.

Here, I believed the doctor used ect as a method to control patients.  I think there may also have been some cultural issues -he being a male Indian.
ECT, I think, was also considered to be more cost effective than psychotherapy.

I'm not a big fan of dbt so that comes somewhere close behind ect and medication.

It's possible they viewed the plate throwing as a threat to others safety, hence the necessity for ect.
I think ect is rarely for the patient.  I don't have experience with catatonic patients, etc though.  I don't know if that would change my view.  I don't expect it would.
My philosophy is that it should be banned (and it should never ever be given without a persons consent).

What grated with me is that all the nurses kept telling me that they would have it.  Would they?  Really?

I hope you've found more appropriate ways to manage your anxiety (?anger).

I can't recall information about medicating a patient during a course of ect.
I know that with depression ect can be used when they feel the onset of an anti-depressant may take too long.
Some medications do increase/ decrease the threshold for inducing seizures.

I sometimes think there is a perception that because patients are on anti-psychotics that they are less of a person.  It decreases their value as a person.  That then makes it OK for them to do to others what they would not wish for themselves or their families or friends.
For me I felt it was the same as being labeled as 'mentally disordered'.  I don't think a label or medication should be used as justification to abuse our rights as individuals.

The doctor is in a better position to indicate whether medication in combination with ect could elicit more damage.
Sometimes we're too subjective (emotional) to be able to really know.  Anxiety makes anything and everything seem possible/ plausible.
This could be similar to patients receiving placebos experiencing side-effects.  

Everybody's different and therefore will respond differently.
There are heaps of different variables that could affect a result.  I've read about bone density and brain tissue affecting conductivity.  The amount of energy used, number of sessions, modified vs unmodified, electrode placement.

When I was threatened with it I was wishing that I had a heart defect that would preclude me from being forced into having it.
I prayed very hard during this period (and I'm not an overly religious person).
I am extremely thankful that I never had it.

People's expressions must make you feel extremely alienated.
Some people, I think, just feel threatened because they don't know how to act around such people.  This is a bit like people with physical and intellectual disabilities.

I don't think anyone could truly understand unless they had had it them-self.  I feel that applies to psychiatric disorders as well.  To be honest, if someone talked about stuff that I'm experiencing now I don't think I would have been able to understand.  I have a fantastic GP and he makes every effort to try and understand.  This helps me feel more normal.  Being understood is huge.

I use the words violated and dirty.  Hospital has made me feel very dirty.  No amount of washing erases those feelings either.  Therapy has helped somewhat.  I still don't typically talk about my experiences while in hospital.

I said that if anybody gave me ect that I would kill myself (providing I remembered of course) -I felt that strongly about it.  They then used that as reason why I should be given it.

For me I felt it would change me.  I think it was a very black and white way of looking at things but it felt very real to me at the time.  I don't think I could have lived with myself.  But then we are very resilient and find ways to cope.

I am wary of all psychiatrists (except perhaps the one here) because they hold an inordinate amount of power (which can easily be abused).

When the doctor told me he wanted to give me a course of ect he insisted I tell him everything I knew about ect.  I told him I would prefer to discuss psychotherapy or medication (which I hate but which I consider the lesser of the two evils).  His registrar then went through the different treatment modalities for the varying degrees of depression.
Being asked to communicate everything I knew felt very ??
I was trying to think of an analogy the other day.  It is a bit like before being raped to explain everything in depth and in detail.  How traumatizing is that?
It was bad enough that they stacked the room full of males (doctors, nurse).

Sorry.  I was just thinking about your convulsion word and it reminded me of being asked for all that info.

I was told that I would likely have a headache and a sore jaw.  (The doctor was very determined he was going to give it to me).
One guy who was in hospital at the same time as me elected to have it.  He wasn't too bad after his first session but then he became really confused.

I don't think the goal is to erase memories.  I think the goal is to improve mood by stimulating ... I've gone brain dead.  Neurotransmitters and synapses come to mind.
I've not read anything about this in years.  I don't think it was very conducive to my recovery or wellness.

I read this article written by this doctor.  During his early training he viewed ect as barbaric and unnecessary, after his training he said he saw it as a tool to control patients (basically to punish patients for being ill-disciplined.  He perceived they were being 'naughty' just to spite staff).  I hope he didn't specialize in psychiatry.

How can you lose what you gain after?

The doctor here offered some really good advice.  I would strongly encourage you to follow up his suggestion.
By learning about our weaknesses we can sometimes better manage them.  (I've had to do that with a lot of my own issues).

I would probably also suggest finding a good therapist with whom you can discuss some of the above issues with.  I don't think trying to deal with such stuff ourselves is very effective.  Talking helps -A LOT!!  (Maybe not initially, but over time).



J