Aa
Anybody see a chiropractor?
I was reading through some articles and came across this article.
http://www.erinelster.com/articles.aspx?ArticleID=278
I was wondering if anyone has tried this to help alleviate symptoms. Also if your neurologist advised you againt it? Just thought it might be worth a try.
Thanks,
Jennifer
http://www.erinelster.com/articles.aspx?ArticleID=278
I was wondering if anyone has tried this to help alleviate symptoms. Also if your neurologist advised you againt it? Just thought it might be worth a try.
Thanks,
Jennifer
Sorry, sorry, didn't mean to be a naysayer, just warning people about the possibility of quackery. I'm sure most chiros are good, as I'm fairly sure most neuros are good--doesn't mean there aren't some crazies out there as we often read about here.
I think Erin wins the prize for best. chiropractor. ever. Wish I could see that guy.
I think Erin wins the prize for best. chiropractor. ever. Wish I could see that guy.
Actually, I was just thinking about this. Most of the large medical centers no longer refer to MMJ, Massage, Chiropractic, Naturopathic Medicine, Eastern Medicine, etc as Alternative Medicine. The big centers now have a Department of Integrated Medicine. They are "Complementary Therapies" rather than Alternative. We have hospitals here in Colorado that have Native American Healing Circles and Zen Meditation Gardens. Considering the bill I just got for the Spinal Fluid Analysis, they should be able to afford it. IgG CSF/Serum, Indexes, IEF OCBs. $2726.50 (before insurance discounts and write-offs.)
Bob
Bob
Hi! I couldn't ignore this post because it wouldn't be fair to my chiropractor or anyone that wants to see one but has been scared off by the nay sayers.
I have seen 3 chiro's in my life and yes one just wanted to see me as often as my insurance would allow - money quack, lol.
The second was an old man and he was a doll. He would see me ASAP when my neck and head pain got too bad and only needed to see him once or twice to have SOME relief - not all better but when in pain any relief is welcome.
After the 2nd passed away I saw his replacement #3. I was so sick and in such pain I was living at the doctors having massages and chiropractor for a month.My doctors dismissed me with pain meds and said if massage or chiro helped go for it.
Chiro #3 didn't dismiss me at all. He is the reason that have have my MS dx!!!! He was convinced that there was more going on and wrote a letter to my doctor that pretty much said certain things should me ruled out & fast because the problem could be a condition that will cause long term damage or death.
Well the doc wasn't happy but you can't ignore that and not worry about a law suit so they did an MRI and I was having a huge flare with all kinds of enhancing lesions. After that all of my doctors were calling me and rushing me for treatment.
I don't see the chiro much anymore but I would if it helped. My daughter and son both go once in a while. But I thank God for chiro #3 not being afraid to stand up to the doctors that were ignoring me and rx pain meds.
I guess you never know where your limbo land will end - mine was with the chiropractor
Hugs,
Erin :)
I have seen 3 chiro's in my life and yes one just wanted to see me as often as my insurance would allow - money quack, lol.
The second was an old man and he was a doll. He would see me ASAP when my neck and head pain got too bad and only needed to see him once or twice to have SOME relief - not all better but when in pain any relief is welcome.
After the 2nd passed away I saw his replacement #3. I was so sick and in such pain I was living at the doctors having massages and chiropractor for a month.My doctors dismissed me with pain meds and said if massage or chiro helped go for it.
Chiro #3 didn't dismiss me at all. He is the reason that have have my MS dx!!!! He was convinced that there was more going on and wrote a letter to my doctor that pretty much said certain things should me ruled out & fast because the problem could be a condition that will cause long term damage or death.
Well the doc wasn't happy but you can't ignore that and not worry about a law suit so they did an MRI and I was having a huge flare with all kinds of enhancing lesions. After that all of my doctors were calling me and rushing me for treatment.
I don't see the chiro much anymore but I would if it helped. My daughter and son both go once in a while. But I thank God for chiro #3 not being afraid to stand up to the doctors that were ignoring me and rx pain meds.
I guess you never know where your limbo land will end - mine was with the chiropractor
Hugs,
Erin :)
I never meant to imply to give up on the qualified docs.
Without a doubt, NEVER give up on the scientific part of medicine.
A combination of what works best for you..holistic, chiropractic, meditation, prayer, accupuncture, whatever...AND the help of your MD!
Without a doubt, NEVER give up on the scientific part of medicine.
A combination of what works best for you..holistic, chiropractic, meditation, prayer, accupuncture, whatever...AND the help of your MD!
Oh I'm all for medical marijuana for treatment of symptoms. But there's at least one doctor who advertizes to write recommendations with something like "did you know that cannabis extracts kill cancer cells in petri dishes?" And it's like, well that's great but so would bleach and I don't think you want to be putting that in your body.
I'm just warning against hooha, definitely think everyone should make their own decisions as to what helps and doesn't help. But stopping real proven treatments to go to alternative stuff only gets me nervous. Totally everyone's own responsibility, but if I knew the person I'd try to talk them into a dual-track approach.
I'm just warning against hooha, definitely think everyone should make their own decisions as to what helps and doesn't help. But stopping real proven treatments to go to alternative stuff only gets me nervous. Totally everyone's own responsibility, but if I knew the person I'd try to talk them into a dual-track approach.
Not too sure about cure cancer, but UCSF and UCSD have proposed some studies with people with MS using "Medical Marijuana" (MMJ).
Upcoming CMCR Studies:
The Effect of Marijuana on Neuropathic Pain in HIV-related Peripheral Neuropathy, Donald Abrams, M.D. (UCSF)
Short-Term Effects of Cannabis Therapy on Spasticity in MS, JodyCorey-Bloom, M.D., Ph.D. (UCSD)
Cannabis for Spasticity/Tremor in MS: Placebo controlled study, Mark Agius, M.D. (UC Davis)
Analgesic Efficacy of Smoked Cannabis, Mark Wallace, M.D. (UCSD)
In every study, not a cure but something to relieve some of the symptoms.
Just saying :-)
Upcoming CMCR Studies:
The Effect of Marijuana on Neuropathic Pain in HIV-related Peripheral Neuropathy, Donald Abrams, M.D. (UCSF)
Short-Term Effects of Cannabis Therapy on Spasticity in MS, JodyCorey-Bloom, M.D., Ph.D. (UCSD)
Cannabis for Spasticity/Tremor in MS: Placebo controlled study, Mark Agius, M.D. (UC Davis)
Analgesic Efficacy of Smoked Cannabis, Mark Wallace, M.D. (UCSD)
In every study, not a cure but something to relieve some of the symptoms.
Just saying :-)
I mostly agree with that, except that I would really strongly encourage people to take a scientific approach in addition to other treatments. If chiropractic, acupuncture, prayer, meditation, or crystal healing bring some additional level of relief to you, great. But I cringe when I see people stopping medical treatment to pursue only alternative treatments. I think alternative treatments are fine when used in conjunction with science. But every once in a while you see people peddling something as a cure that will ultimately be harmful (not so much in the MS community, but in the coverage of things like medical marijuana you sometimes see people claim that it can cure cancer--yikes!).
I realize chiropractors get a bad rap. I know family/friends who have gone to the quacks.
I however picked one who's title is Chiropractor Neurology and Sports.
He has an EXCELLENT understanding as to how everything is connected. It's not as if he cracks my back and sends me out the door.
A great chiro will look at the WHOLE body.
Find one, (if you wish) that works for you. By all means don't let someone treat you if you don't feel comfortable around him/her or you've heard bad things about a certain chiropractor.
I chose mine specifically because he had NEUROLOGY in his title. He UNDERSTANDS what's going on with my body.
Do what works for your body, bottom line
I however picked one who's title is Chiropractor Neurology and Sports.
He has an EXCELLENT understanding as to how everything is connected. It's not as if he cracks my back and sends me out the door.
A great chiro will look at the WHOLE body.
Find one, (if you wish) that works for you. By all means don't let someone treat you if you don't feel comfortable around him/her or you've heard bad things about a certain chiropractor.
I chose mine specifically because he had NEUROLOGY in his title. He UNDERSTANDS what's going on with my body.
Do what works for your body, bottom line
Some chiros are good, some are terrible. Just have to be careful and use your judgment. I go to a guy now from time to time when the muscles in my neck get too tensed up and start causing headaches. They do the little electrodes on your muscles that force them to tighten and release. It's pretty glorious. Then he does his adjustment and I'm usually fine for a good 3 months or so. He thinks I should come more often but isn't pushy about it.
I also saw a chiro for a while who was a big sports injury guy. He did a much more scientific approach than my current guy. X-rays, the whole nine yards. I only stopped because he stopped taking my insurance. He was also really good and not pushy about getting me in more often.
I think you have to be careful when you get into some of the chiros who still believe the old, unscientific ideas (they're still out there). If they mention subluxation you should probably be suspicious and get more info on what they're talking about. A lot of chiropractic originated as quackery where they believed that if everything was in alignment all ailments would cease to exist. It's a bunch of bullpucky, but that doesn't mean that everything that came along with it is useless.
I also saw a chiro for a while who was a big sports injury guy. He did a much more scientific approach than my current guy. X-rays, the whole nine yards. I only stopped because he stopped taking my insurance. He was also really good and not pushy about getting me in more often.
I think you have to be careful when you get into some of the chiros who still believe the old, unscientific ideas (they're still out there). If they mention subluxation you should probably be suspicious and get more info on what they're talking about. A lot of chiropractic originated as quackery where they believed that if everything was in alignment all ailments would cease to exist. It's a bunch of bullpucky, but that doesn't mean that everything that came along with it is useless.
As a PT, I'm supposed to have a lot of bad things to say about chiropractors. I could do that, but I try not to.
"Adjustments" without addressing the biomechanics that put your body in that position will not be a long term solution to any issue. If you have pelvic alignment issues - you probably have some muscle weakness in the area that contributed to it. I see no reason to have chiropractic adjustments without the combination of specific exercise to address your body's limitations.
That being said. When I treat patients that are also being seen by a chiropractor, we sometimes get faster results. Often weakness issues are combined with joint immobility issues regardless of an orthopedic or neurological origin. This is especially true in the spine - one small facet joint being less mobile can cause an entire chain reaction of muscle compensation. As a PT, I can perform the same manipulations that chiropractors can, and if someone is seeing a chiropractor at the same time, then I don't have to spend as much time on joint mobilizations during sessions.
Also, sometimes we have reasons for muscle and joint imbalance that cause alignment issues that you can't necessarily change. My example is that I was once on crutches and non weight-bearing on one leg for over 4 months. My back hurt, and I could really change the way I was walking or do anything about it - so adjustments did keep my pain level down until I could properly address the issue.
This could be true with a MS flare too. If you had severe leg weakness that was causing hip pain because it changes the way you clear your foot when you walk, you can't magically make your hip muscles give you the support you need, so a chiropractor may be able to help control some symptoms until you regain strength.
My point, I guess, is that it's not black and white. All good or all bad. It could be a very appropriate treatment for certain cases.
"Adjustments" without addressing the biomechanics that put your body in that position will not be a long term solution to any issue. If you have pelvic alignment issues - you probably have some muscle weakness in the area that contributed to it. I see no reason to have chiropractic adjustments without the combination of specific exercise to address your body's limitations.
That being said. When I treat patients that are also being seen by a chiropractor, we sometimes get faster results. Often weakness issues are combined with joint immobility issues regardless of an orthopedic or neurological origin. This is especially true in the spine - one small facet joint being less mobile can cause an entire chain reaction of muscle compensation. As a PT, I can perform the same manipulations that chiropractors can, and if someone is seeing a chiropractor at the same time, then I don't have to spend as much time on joint mobilizations during sessions.
Also, sometimes we have reasons for muscle and joint imbalance that cause alignment issues that you can't necessarily change. My example is that I was once on crutches and non weight-bearing on one leg for over 4 months. My back hurt, and I could really change the way I was walking or do anything about it - so adjustments did keep my pain level down until I could properly address the issue.
This could be true with a MS flare too. If you had severe leg weakness that was causing hip pain because it changes the way you clear your foot when you walk, you can't magically make your hip muscles give you the support you need, so a chiropractor may be able to help control some symptoms until you regain strength.
My point, I guess, is that it's not black and white. All good or all bad. It could be a very appropriate treatment for certain cases.
I do have to say, the adjustments and massages did help with my headaches. But ONLY when I started to rehab them myself in their rehab room, complements of my insurance company. ;-) It was the exercises, stretching and strengthening, combined with the manipulations and massage that made it so effective. They got me down from a three month headache to only one or two bad ones a month. I had to quit going. It was 2-3 times a week for six weeks. Long drive.
Three months later, the headaches came back with a vengeance. At the end of summer, of course. It seems to be the pattern.
It does provide some great temporary relief, if they do it right with the TENS, ultrasound, massage, heat, and give you the whole nine yards. I've seen some amazing things happen for people in a chiro office. It didn't work as well for me. But gives a nice moment of relief for a day or two from the pain. I think it all matters what your issues are. Mine were obviously a combination of things, and probably why it wasn't 100% effective.
If you have a truly musculoskeletal pain going on, it will do the trick. If it's an impinged nerve, arthritic or spinal cord thing, that's a little harder to help from the outside. In those cases the relief might last a couple of days, or even as short as a couple of hours, and in some cases you might not get any relief at all for more than a few minutes. The only way to really know is to give it a try and see how it works.
Three months later, the headaches came back with a vengeance. At the end of summer, of course. It seems to be the pattern.
It does provide some great temporary relief, if they do it right with the TENS, ultrasound, massage, heat, and give you the whole nine yards. I've seen some amazing things happen for people in a chiro office. It didn't work as well for me. But gives a nice moment of relief for a day or two from the pain. I think it all matters what your issues are. Mine were obviously a combination of things, and probably why it wasn't 100% effective.
If you have a truly musculoskeletal pain going on, it will do the trick. If it's an impinged nerve, arthritic or spinal cord thing, that's a little harder to help from the outside. In those cases the relief might last a couple of days, or even as short as a couple of hours, and in some cases you might not get any relief at all for more than a few minutes. The only way to really know is to give it a try and see how it works.
Over the past years I have visited three different chiro. I find they are very good at FINDING a problem to treat. Can be hips not properly aligned or a disc or arthritis....NONE of which were my problem. I have had them put lifts in my shoes (nearly killed myself trying to walk with them). They have pushed and prodded and hurt me..doing much more harm than good.
Pfffff....not professionals..only out to make a buck.
Pfffff....not professionals..only out to make a buck.
I am with you! My chiropractor has done more for me than any Dr ever has at a fraction of the cost.
I truly believe they kept the full blown MS at bay for a good 20 years. Also helps with muscle spasms as my chiro does whats called ART or Active Release Technique. If it can keep Olympic athletes on the track, it can surely relieve my constant distress.
For example, my lower legs and ankles are apt to give out and get all stiff and immobile. After work by my chiro, I have almost full mobility again and use of the ankles and muscles in the lower legs. No foot drop! Since the nerves are not calling the proper shots however, the ankles and lower leg muscles re-tense and go all wonky again over time. But the relief is enormous. I walk out with a better body and a better attitude each time.
The Doctor's just give me more and more drugs which make my brain wonky and my GI track upset. I don't have much left but my brain and I don't want to be all wonky all the time.
Jessica
I truly believe they kept the full blown MS at bay for a good 20 years. Also helps with muscle spasms as my chiro does whats called ART or Active Release Technique. If it can keep Olympic athletes on the track, it can surely relieve my constant distress.
For example, my lower legs and ankles are apt to give out and get all stiff and immobile. After work by my chiro, I have almost full mobility again and use of the ankles and muscles in the lower legs. No foot drop! Since the nerves are not calling the proper shots however, the ankles and lower leg muscles re-tense and go all wonky again over time. But the relief is enormous. I walk out with a better body and a better attitude each time.
The Doctor's just give me more and more drugs which make my brain wonky and my GI track upset. I don't have much left but my brain and I don't want to be all wonky all the time.
Jessica
I've also had lower back adjustments that set off radiculopathies. That's never fun. They can't adjust my SI joint anymore because of it. Note: I am a limbolander. But they said I had the most beautiful lumbar MRI they've ever seen.
I saw a chiro last week, and because there was the lingering question about whether I had an active lesion in my cervical cord or not, they wouldn't adjust me at all. They weren't going to touch me with a ten foot pole. No sirree.
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I personally dont think it would help me, i dont need to do much and my muscles stop functioning correctly. eg I just spent 1/2 an hour removing little 2 inch weed shoots from the front garden, no real energy needs to be spent on that but within 15 minutes my leg was in full spasm whilst i was sitting, so not even a muscle in that leg being used. By the end of the 30 minutes i was back to not being able to stay on my feet or walk like a sober person lol.
I dont see how any manipulation of your skeletal frame is going to make muscles work or even relieve the majority of neuro related sx. Pinched nerves yes but i dont get how it would help sx caused by damage (lesions) in your central nervous system. I would think physiotherapy would be much more likely to be helpful, strengthening muscles, relieving spasticity etc. etc.
My step mother swears by her's for her back issues and sinus problems, she feels wonderful afterwards but me, i cant see how it would help with my issues at all.
Sorry for the negative but thats what i'm thinking.
Cheers......JJ
I dont see how any manipulation of your skeletal frame is going to make muscles work or even relieve the majority of neuro related sx. Pinched nerves yes but i dont get how it would help sx caused by damage (lesions) in your central nervous system. I would think physiotherapy would be much more likely to be helpful, strengthening muscles, relieving spasticity etc. etc.
My step mother swears by her's for her back issues and sinus problems, she feels wonderful afterwards but me, i cant see how it would help with my issues at all.
Sorry for the negative but thats what i'm thinking.
Cheers......JJ
First of all, I'm still in Limboland. Therefore my (wonderful) Chiropractor isn't treating MS necessarily, he's treating my symptoms.
He is amazing. He helps with my lower back pain. He's helped A LOT with the dizziness/vertigo/balance issues. I go to him for my TN as well.
My neuro (whom I've only seen twice) didn't advise against it, but said: 'You've just been treating all the symptoms, I'll find you an answer.' I admired his confidence, but I haven't got any answers to what IS causing my symptoms, just answers as to what it's not. (which is part of the 'process of elimination')
My chiro has done more for me than ANY doctor EVER has. I seek his advice and help all the time. He's also a much better listener, really cares about his patients, and doesn't just use a prescription pad to do his work for him.
Sorry, I'm a little frustrated with docs right now. =)
He is amazing. He helps with my lower back pain. He's helped A LOT with the dizziness/vertigo/balance issues. I go to him for my TN as well.
My neuro (whom I've only seen twice) didn't advise against it, but said: 'You've just been treating all the symptoms, I'll find you an answer.' I admired his confidence, but I haven't got any answers to what IS causing my symptoms, just answers as to what it's not. (which is part of the 'process of elimination')
My chiro has done more for me than ANY doctor EVER has. I seek his advice and help all the time. He's also a much better listener, really cares about his patients, and doesn't just use a prescription pad to do his work for him.
Sorry, I'm a little frustrated with docs right now. =)
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