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Britian...the Worst
If you live in Britian it is one of the worst countries in Europe for people with MS. See article
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Multiple-Sclerosis-Britain-Is-One-Of-The-Worst-Countries-In-Europe-For-People-With-Disease/Article/201105415997356?lpos=UK_News_First_Home_Article_Teaser_Region_4&lid=ARTICLE_15997356_Multiple_Sclerosis%3A_Britain_Is_One_Of_The_Worst_Countries_In_Europe_For_People_With_Disease
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Multiple-Sclerosis-Britain-Is-One-Of-The-Worst-Countries-In-Europe-For-People-With-Disease/Article/201105415997356?lpos=UK_News_First_Home_Article_Teaser_Region_4&lid=ARTICLE_15997356_Multiple_Sclerosis%3A_Britain_Is_One_Of_The_Worst_Countries_In_Europe_For_People_With_Disease
Oh by the way, I do believe Sky is owned by that rat of all rats, Rupert Murdoch. The ultimate right-wing, anti-government (therefore anti-ANYTHING that relates to tax) , pro-business media man. Of course he will pomote articles against universal health care.
There's always someone complaining about their country's health system, and others praising it. I wouldn't want to pass judgement on another country based on one article and one person's opinion.
The US system, however, has had a whole lot more than one article/person having a whine. It's the ONLY western nation without universal health care. One constantly hears horror stories. And good stories - if one can pay. I'm glad I live in a place with universal care.
Shameful socialists we are!
The US system, however, has had a whole lot more than one article/person having a whine. It's the ONLY western nation without universal health care. One constantly hears horror stories. And good stories - if one can pay. I'm glad I live in a place with universal care.
Shameful socialists we are!
As already been said, it's a post code lottery (zip code).
Sky News always "claims" to be the best when in fact it's the BBC 24/7 channel.
Yes the NHS is slow, but to go privately is much better (and the cost isn't that high either) it's about the same as pay for your Insurances in the US.
Example a friend of mine in SM had to pay 25$ for 1mg of Valium !!!
After WW2 when the Government made the NHS there were a lot less people living in the UK, and it was supposed to be a free system (which did work for a while) for everyone.
Now we are overwhelmed by people using the NHS. So PWMS will and are be suffering also - there's so many other patients also, people with Cancer - Heart problems for example, so it's not just MS patients.
I read sometimes with horror about the US system, and with forum members not being able to afford treatment - and waiting for results when they are paying so heavy into their Insurances - it's not fair.
In the UK, you need to know how to "work" the system - you would be amazed at the results.
I'm not trying to stand up for the NHS - it is slow, but you will get help regardless.
Debs
Sky News always "claims" to be the best when in fact it's the BBC 24/7 channel.
Yes the NHS is slow, but to go privately is much better (and the cost isn't that high either) it's about the same as pay for your Insurances in the US.
Example a friend of mine in SM had to pay 25$ for 1mg of Valium !!!
After WW2 when the Government made the NHS there were a lot less people living in the UK, and it was supposed to be a free system (which did work for a while) for everyone.
Now we are overwhelmed by people using the NHS. So PWMS will and are be suffering also - there's so many other patients also, people with Cancer - Heart problems for example, so it's not just MS patients.
I read sometimes with horror about the US system, and with forum members not being able to afford treatment - and waiting for results when they are paying so heavy into their Insurances - it's not fair.
In the UK, you need to know how to "work" the system - you would be amazed at the results.
I'm not trying to stand up for the NHS - it is slow, but you will get help regardless.
Debs
I have to agree with Sarah - the ms care I've received on the NHS couldn't be faulted. Compared to the private system over here, the team at the Royal Free in London have been extremely supportive, have been happy to discuss anything and everything with me, and the MS nurse has always followed up on me throughout the rougher patches to make sure I've been ok and still capable of looking after myself at home. I couldn't really ask for too much more.
Having said that, I can only speak from the point of view of someone who is apparently a pretty clear cut, currently mildish RRMS case, and who's responded so far as expected to all treatments given. I can imagine things would become trickier if things were different, or I had the consultant I saw privately as my NHS neuro. His inflated ego unfortunately covered his ears in such a manner that prevented him from listening to anything the patient said.
Actually based on what I've read in this forum and elsewhere, maybe the best next step for MS research would be an ego reduction tool for oversure members of the medical population...
Having said that, I can only speak from the point of view of someone who is apparently a pretty clear cut, currently mildish RRMS case, and who's responded so far as expected to all treatments given. I can imagine things would become trickier if things were different, or I had the consultant I saw privately as my NHS neuro. His inflated ego unfortunately covered his ears in such a manner that prevented him from listening to anything the patient said.
Actually based on what I've read in this forum and elsewhere, maybe the best next step for MS research would be an ego reduction tool for oversure members of the medical population...
Alex,
This is a very succinct explanation of the problems that plague medicine here in the States. Thank you for wording it so well.
Twist, I really appreciation your summation of the prose and cons of the NHS.
I think this is what it really takes - people willing to really examine and be honest about the pros and cons of various systems so that we can advocate for changes that actually work in real life, not just on paper.
Thanks,
Melissa
This is a very succinct explanation of the problems that plague medicine here in the States. Thank you for wording it so well.
Twist, I really appreciation your summation of the prose and cons of the NHS.
I think this is what it really takes - people willing to really examine and be honest about the pros and cons of various systems so that we can advocate for changes that actually work in real life, not just on paper.
Thanks,
Melissa
I know the UK has problems. Here in the States it is hit or miss. My first appointment with my MS Specialist took 8 months. It took longer to get a follow up as an established patient with the MS Specialist I had. It took 4 months to get my Evoked Potential Results. Almost a year for a Doctor to explain my first MRI results I got that in the mail. All I knew is it said brain stem and demylating. Six weeks for my LP results. Three months for an LP to be done after the Doctor scheduled it. Another month for blood work after the LP. I do not get tests in full unless I insist.
Our issue is a shortage of MS Specialists which is a world wide problem. In our area each MS Specialist has at least 5,000 diagnosed patients and may be that many being diagnosed. We have doctors who want to retire but can't because no one in these huge practices wants to do MS. The medical schools in our area are trying to give money away to those who will go into Neurology and in 8 years no takers. Also Neurologists need to be Primary Care Doctors for MS patients and they are not paid enough for the time it takes to do that.
Health care has four problems in the U.S.. One it is based on the person is broken fix them theory, which is passive and waits too long. Two there is so much specialization in medicine the Doctors are territorial and myopic. So it either gets ignored or you have to go to many Specialists until they figure whose area of expertise. If your problem does not fall in there limited expertise they can't deal with it. Third it is based on an antiquated insurance model for payment. Four the technology and the cost has grown so fast, while incomes for most people are declining.
Truth World wide Medicine has changed so much and it has out grown the frame work.
It is good to bring these things out in the open and work for change. These are not easy fixes. Especially when Government is involved.
Alex
Our issue is a shortage of MS Specialists which is a world wide problem. In our area each MS Specialist has at least 5,000 diagnosed patients and may be that many being diagnosed. We have doctors who want to retire but can't because no one in these huge practices wants to do MS. The medical schools in our area are trying to give money away to those who will go into Neurology and in 8 years no takers. Also Neurologists need to be Primary Care Doctors for MS patients and they are not paid enough for the time it takes to do that.
Health care has four problems in the U.S.. One it is based on the person is broken fix them theory, which is passive and waits too long. Two there is so much specialization in medicine the Doctors are territorial and myopic. So it either gets ignored or you have to go to many Specialists until they figure whose area of expertise. If your problem does not fall in there limited expertise they can't deal with it. Third it is based on an antiquated insurance model for payment. Four the technology and the cost has grown so fast, while incomes for most people are declining.
Truth World wide Medicine has changed so much and it has out grown the frame work.
It is good to bring these things out in the open and work for change. These are not easy fixes. Especially when Government is involved.
Alex
There are many things about the Uk health system that are wonderful. Emergency care is one of them. And of course the fact it is free.
On the other hand many of our doctors and nurses and are taken advantage of by higher aurthority and over stretched. Hence particularly in nursing people do not wish for the stress impossed while being under paid and leave the profession.
The other problem is what is called the postcode lottery, where as you might be entitled to one kind of treatment or drug in one county of the UK and not in another. So on one hand you may get great MS care in one part of the country and not in another.
Now the other thing is a very British problem. Very few people are willing to question the Dr's opinion or complain. My husband was very shocked when I was adamnt 20 months ago I did not have carpel tunnel and was not going to have the operation the consultant advised. Particularly in our relationship he is the outspoken one. I think the fact I was prepared to argue my corner with evidence made him realise how sure I was CTS was not the problem.
As for waiting times to see a Dr. I can get to see my GP (PCP) the same day as I phone them. Consultants you must be refered by you GP but can take 6 to 8 weeks. Having read on this board there doesn't seem to be that much difference than in the US.
My main complaint would be getting test results. The results aren't there for your next appointment. Most I have learnt you can get at your GP's but not all. Also unlike in the US you do not get the full result just a positive or negative. The same with MRI's very little info is given which is quite annoying.
well there you go that's my view on the NHS
Twist
On the other hand many of our doctors and nurses and are taken advantage of by higher aurthority and over stretched. Hence particularly in nursing people do not wish for the stress impossed while being under paid and leave the profession.
The other problem is what is called the postcode lottery, where as you might be entitled to one kind of treatment or drug in one county of the UK and not in another. So on one hand you may get great MS care in one part of the country and not in another.
Now the other thing is a very British problem. Very few people are willing to question the Dr's opinion or complain. My husband was very shocked when I was adamnt 20 months ago I did not have carpel tunnel and was not going to have the operation the consultant advised. Particularly in our relationship he is the outspoken one. I think the fact I was prepared to argue my corner with evidence made him realise how sure I was CTS was not the problem.
As for waiting times to see a Dr. I can get to see my GP (PCP) the same day as I phone them. Consultants you must be refered by you GP but can take 6 to 8 weeks. Having read on this board there doesn't seem to be that much difference than in the US.
My main complaint would be getting test results. The results aren't there for your next appointment. Most I have learnt you can get at your GP's but not all. Also unlike in the US you do not get the full result just a positive or negative. The same with MRI's very little info is given which is quite annoying.
well there you go that's my view on the NHS
Twist
I am not offended. I simply would love any system in this country which would make MS care for someone like me a reality. I have Duke and UNC both ten miles away and I am only seeing a MS Specialist may be once a year nothing more. No DMD, no PT, No brand name drugs, no steroids, no tests, no Specialists for other problems for MS, and no ER when I need it for MS. How am I better off than some one with public health?
Alex
Alex
Errr...the paper printing the article is from the UK
'As the UK's first dedicated 24-hour news channel, Sky News has built a deserved reputation for being the first to break major news, consistently out-performing the competition and winning more awards since its launch than any other news channel.'
http://www.skypressoffice.co.uk/SkyNews/AboutUs/default.asp
So it isn't the US trashing the system.
'As the UK's first dedicated 24-hour news channel, Sky News has built a deserved reputation for being the first to break major news, consistently out-performing the competition and winning more awards since its launch than any other news channel.'
http://www.skypressoffice.co.uk/SkyNews/AboutUs/default.asp
So it isn't the US trashing the system.
Exactly, the article is talking specifically about MS patients, and which is likely representative of British patients with other conditions, given the WHO ranking. Unfortunately there is so much inaccurate propaganda against uiversal health care that there is a tendency to interpret these scenarios as evidence that the whole system is a failure...you know, the whole throwing the baby out with the bathwater thing.
Melissa - I don't know what about your remarks could ever be taken as offensive; I sure wasn't offended.
Melissa - I don't know what about your remarks could ever be taken as offensive; I sure wasn't offended.
Very true. Hopefully the new registry they describe will help to improve this. It sounds as though much of the problem is inconsistent care across the country. Those in some areas are getting great MS care, while those in others are getting perhaps sub-standard care. It seems that if they can implement the programs or standards that are working well in some areas (for example, where Sarah receives care) in those areas that don't have a good quality of treatment the problem would be solved.
I think this issue is seen everywhere then, with either private or universal health care. Look at the issues we have here in the States. It is so hit and miss. So many have to switch neuros at least once, if not many times, to receive proper care. I am not sure if it is easy to switch neuros in Britain. It seems like I read something about switching drs being difficult to do there, but I may be confusing it with something else.Maybe this is part of the issue?
Melissa
I think this issue is seen everywhere then, with either private or universal health care. Look at the issues we have here in the States. It is so hit and miss. So many have to switch neuros at least once, if not many times, to receive proper care. I am not sure if it is easy to switch neuros in Britain. It seems like I read something about switching drs being difficult to do there, but I may be confusing it with something else.Maybe this is part of the issue?
Melissa
Okay, let's try that again. I think what people are missing is that the article isn't tossing the entire healthcare program in Britian. It is saying those with MS are not getting proper care.
I think what people are missing is that the article isn't tossing the entire healthcare program but Britian. It is say that those with MS are not getting proper care.
I hope that no one took offense at my comments above pertaining to my sister-in-law's opinions on British health care. I didn't mean to upset anyone. My knowledge of the system comes solely from her and my brother's experience there, and her experience as a nurse there. I think her frustrations are less with the universal care itself, and more with the slowness of response to medical conditions, inconsistencies in the care offered, etc. If she wasn't feeling so poorly right now I would ask her to clarify things more for me.
That said, I can't say much good about MY heath care here in the US. And the fact that my insurance is based on my ability to keep my job, which I am worried will continue to be harder and harder to do, really adds to the stress of it all. There is no way I would be able to afford premiums without the group insurance rates I get through the very large corporation I work for. Even with that, I have a very large deductible and have medical bills up the wazoo. Each November when we have to re-up our insurance it seems they take more and more from us. I know others have it much worse, but I'm starting to wonder if next November they will send out notices saying "We will still be taking money out of your paycheck, but you will have to pay for your medical bills yourself." It feels like they already do that to some extent now.
Like I said, I really hope I didn't offend! I really didn't mean to!
Melissa
That said, I can't say much good about MY heath care here in the US. And the fact that my insurance is based on my ability to keep my job, which I am worried will continue to be harder and harder to do, really adds to the stress of it all. There is no way I would be able to afford premiums without the group insurance rates I get through the very large corporation I work for. Even with that, I have a very large deductible and have medical bills up the wazoo. Each November when we have to re-up our insurance it seems they take more and more from us. I know others have it much worse, but I'm starting to wonder if next November they will send out notices saying "We will still be taking money out of your paycheck, but you will have to pay for your medical bills yourself." It feels like they already do that to some extent now.
Like I said, I really hope I didn't offend! I really didn't mean to!
Melissa
The WHO ranked Britain's health care system at 18th in the world. Most if not all of the countries that ranked higher (most of which are European) also have publicly funded universally accessible health care systems. The U.S. lags behind at 37th. Even Canada didn't fare all that great at 30th place but even still, I'm grateful for our excellent quality universal health care, which is usually misunderstood and/or misrepresented in the U.S. media, I suspect usually for political reasons.
I would trade there health care for mine any day. I can now pay my insurance premiums and for my PCP and generic medicines. What good is medical care if you can't afford it? Next year I will probably have to drop my medical insurance all together we can barely pay the premiums now. No I can't get Social Security and I am 20 years away from medicare. We have tightened our belts until it hurts.
I do not go to Specialists and the ER because I am weird. I CAN"T AFFORD IT. You have no idea what I sacrifice for my health care premiums. Living like this stinks.
Alex
I do not go to Specialists and the ER because I am weird. I CAN"T AFFORD IT. You have no idea what I sacrifice for my health care premiums. Living like this stinks.
Alex
My brother and sister-in-law live in Bury St. Edmunds. My sister-in-law is British and a nurse. She has rheumatoid arthritis and has recently found out she has non-hodgkins lymphoma (not sure what type specifically yet). She is the first one to say that their healthcare system stinks. As she works within the system, and has had the experience as a patient with a chronic disease, I've always given her assessment a high degree of integrity.
Melissa
Melissa
Thank you for sharing this article! I am constantly being told by by niece (who lives in Britain - my hubby is British but lives in the USA now obviously LOL) that we are fools in America for not having nationalized healthcare. She is diabetic and insists she would be dead if she lived here because she wouldn't be able to afford her medicine. I think I'm going to send her this article.
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
Well I am obviously one of the lucky ones as I have an amazing MS team, wonderful MS nurse, fab neuros and at my centre (BRAMS, Frenchay Hospital, Bristol) they are doing as much research as funds permit. I am always treated with respect, feel listened to and really cared for. I could not ask for better care.... I do not think that I get any extra special care because I am on the drug trial as it is the same team who look after normal patients, but what I do get is very regular monitoring and frequent visits.
Sarah
Sarah
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