Clear mri

[Krispt]

Hi guys
You will remember me from being anxious stressed out about all the symptoms IVE been having
Some have gotten a little better on day to day as in changing every day, others have gotte worse like the arm issues
I've had my latest mri results back which state compared to first mri no abnormality of brain, cervical cord signal looks normal
Slight degeneration with no significant protrusion
What do I do now?!
I want to be happy and if these symptoms went away I'd be over the moon but they're not going

[Krispt]

Thanks Alex
I appreciate the post, it's odd if it turns out to be ppms as il only 30
But then the issues have come stayed and gotten worse over 4 months. I always read like you said that it comes on slowly and then gets slowly worse, usually is walking issues and takes awhile to have a big effect?
But then I have read others saying different, so far all shmptoms seem all over from tingling in hand to burning in feet and leg pains with now arm aches and pains from shoulder to hand. It's all a bit much right now which is really why I'm panicking to get a dx of whatever it is so I can see what's next
Thanks again

[HVAC]

The LP should shed more light on the situation. As long as the neurologist follows you over time you are in good shape. He should do a lot of blood work to rule out other illnesses. If the evidence is not there then the neurologist can't diagnose MS. He can still follow you overtime. MS does not need to be diagnosed right away it is not like a brain tumor. Really not much changes when you are diagnosed with MS if you have Progressive MS.. I see a neurologist once a year. He sends me to other professionals like PT or the pain clinic. They do the same thing as before diagnosis which is treating symptoms. With PPMS the drugs to stop progression do not work so it really does not matter when you are diagnosed. It is not until your 50's progression really starts with Progressive MS. You do not have relapse with Progressive MS. I only have three lesions but they are classic MS also my LP had 12 obands which is more than usual.. All my MRIs have shown MS. It still took two years to be diagnosed. Really more I have had MS childhood so I thought the symptoms were normal. I did not go to doctor with symptoms. My GP did a neurological exam with my yearly exam and she sent me to a neurologist.

I hope you find an answer. truly.

Alex

[Krispt]

Genuinley everything you guys have said has been listened to and appreciated I would not like you to think otherwise

[Krispt]

I really don't understand why you have all rounded on me in this way!!
I have been polite I have asked questions that are extremely relevant to me, I have thanked you for your answers I have taken heed of your answers I have even changed my perceptions because of your answers
I appreciate that eveeyone has had a lot of crap to deal with and I don't envy anyone
When I said there's people not as worse off I meant those in the general population, I am really struggling with all this both on a physical and psychological point of view, hence why i have been asking the questions I have asked
I apologise if you think I've not appreciate the time you've taken to answer me as I have, thanks for all the suggestions and points of view they are valued

[bbassel]

When you wrote that you also know there are a lot of people that don't have anything to deal with, I was saddened for you.

Everyone who comes here has a lot to deal with or they wouldn't be here. The members that have been answering you have invested personal time and effort to help you. This is amazing to me considering your lack to follow their suggestions.

These people have spent their free time, which is minimal to some with ms, to try and figure out Wwhat is going on with your health. You will not find this kind of dedication and support anywhere else.

[essdipity]

It's hardly fair to claim that no one's going to answer your questions, when you've gotten dozens and dozens of answers, just not the ones you want, feeding into your fears. As of now you have no evidence you have any serious illness whatever. You have plenty of evidence that you have a crippling anxiety disorder. You give lip service to working on that, while all the while fanning its flames by more research and what-if obsessions.

I didn't refer you to Alex's post to demonstrate that there are people worse off than you, and your response in my opinion is not an honest one.. You clearly understand that the point I made is about attitude, and about not borrowing trouble. It's about anxiety. No matter what statements you make in reference to working on your mental health issues, that's all they seem to be, statements. I'd be willing to bet that for every second you spend seeing a therapist and being open to the possibility that your symptoms are not due to a physical illness, you spend 10 hours indulging these fantasies to the hilt.

As for me, I will now stop participating in this discussion. There's no longer a point. If you change your approach, let me  know.

ess

[kwarendorf]

Krist -

The only reason people come to a forum such as this is to gather information. You have come seeking information and we have tried to supply it. We are not doctors and can only speak to our personal knowledge of MS. We are not qualified to, nor do we want to, speculate about other causes for various symptoms.

We have provided you with all of the information we have. WHat you choose to do with it is up to you. But please don't expect people here to speculate.

I hope you stick around.

Kyle

[supermum_ms]

It absolutely saddens me, that my concern for you and all the effort this community has put into answering all your questions etc..........and it has come to naught!

If you were logging off because you recognised that it was feeding your obsession and not helping you, then for me all the hours i've put in trying to help you, would all be worth it BUT I gather all your going to do is move onto another MS forum, which is dam right sad to me!!

Good luck and i wish you well on your journey

JJ  

[Krispt]

Hi thanks guys
I know what you mean Ess about others with problems and I get that people have it worse but also a lot of people don't have anything to deal with, I know all about perspective wtc but I am only four months into this so I am trying to learn how to deal with this, and I have always been one of those eho thought maybe it won't happen to me
Jj I knlw your right regarding the anxiety and types of questions im asking but if no ones going to Answer them even to give me an idea of what I'm saying is correct then I'd be best of leaving the forum
Thankyou and I apologise for wasting uour time

[supermum_ms]

At this stage I know no other way to say this but to say it as I would, if you were one of mine and that is to keep it real re: your OCD mental health condition.......

You said....."looking into other causes too b12 Chiari Lyme or a combination of somatization and another issue "  (1) Continually online researching medical conditions = actively engaging in behaviours that continue to feed your obsessive health compulsion, which is the exact opposite behaviour your suppose to be doing to help control your OCD behaviours.

You asked....... "Is this normal in Ms to have an early clear mri? Or is this suggestive of something rlse? I also read that progressive types tend to have les lesions And this has kept on orogresing " (2) Continually seeking out validation of beliefs = actively engaging in behaviours that continue to feed your obsessive health compulsion, which is the exact opposite behaviour your suppose to be doing to help control your OCD behaviours.

You asked......."I don't know what other things I can do really. I however wanted to see what you guys think, I know the sumptoms are odd, some have seemed to flair some have come on gradual some have remitted some have not, I even had an hour or so earlier feeling completely normal!" (3) Continually seeking out opinions = actively engaging in behaviours that continue to feed your obsessive health compulsion, which is the exact opposite behaviour your suppose to be doing to help control your OCD behaviours.  

You said..........."I am terrified because of the rate this is progressing, something is happening / I also read that progressive types tend to have les lesions And this has kept on orogresing  (4) Continual justification of beliefs = actively engaging in behaviours that continue to feed your obsessive health compulsion, which is the exact opposite behaviour your suppose to be doing to help control your OCD behaviours.  

You said........."The one issue I have thiugh is I am a control freak and I have no control over my future currently becaue I have no answer for my issues" (5) Continually acknowledging M/H whilst disbelieving association = actively engaging in behaviours that continue to feed your obsessive health compulsion, which is the exact opposite behaviour your suppose to be doing to help control your OCD behaviours.  

You are seriously deluding your self if you genuinely believe "I am doing everything I posibly can to fix that too" that is a false statement by your own addmitions, false because 'if' you were doing everything you possibly can about your OCD, you 100% wouldn't be continuing to feed the obsession as i've pointed out above...........understanding your OCD will give you back control over your future!

Food for thought.........JJ

[essdipity]

I'm far from surprised that you are a control freak. You'd almost have to be, given what you've told us about yourself.

Please read or re-read this thread:

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Multiple-Sclerosis/Feeling-So-much-Gratitude/show/2549622

Alex, our very much beloved member, has a great deal to worry her, yet it doesn't, or not a lot, and certainly not constantly. She is a wise woman. Note what I said there about anxiety. I think it applies to you in spades.

Imagine, just for a moment, that you were free of your anxiety. Yes, free. That's how it feels. That feeling can be yours if you decide to take the steps to make it happen. It's up to you.

Then whatever life deals you, you will not compound it a hundred times because of your approach. The one thing you actually *can* control is your reaction. Get help with this and you'll be very glad you did.

ess

[Krispt]

Hi Jj
Thabkyou and I know you all think I don't appreciate it but I do
I know about the mental health issue and I am doing everything I posibly can to fix that too
The one issue I have thiugh is I am a control freak and I have no control over my future currently becaue I have no answer for my issues
I am looking into other causes too b12 Chiari Lyme or a combination of somatization and another issue
I know negative LP don't rule out Ms, but with negative mri and LP you would think the chances are tiny if at all

I don't know what other things I can do really

I however wanted to see what you guys think, I know the sumptoms are odd, some have seemed to flair some have come on gradual some have remitted some have not, I even had an hour or so earlier feeling completely normal!

[supermum_ms]

I doubt you are really offending anyone.........you have a very convoluted perspective that is hard for people to understand, and it's been very difficult to brake through your self created, circulatory OCD thought pattern.

The community has been trying to help YOU, a lot of factual information has had to be repeated........repeated corrections of your fuzzy logic, repeated correcting of your misinterpretations, repeatedly explaining MS, working through your self diagnosing, repeatedly explaining MS progression, we've discussed your normal clinical evidence vs your perspective etc etc etc

Despite all our efforts and attempts to help you, you've still continued to doggedly hold onto your convoluted thoughts and believe you must have a progressive type of MS!

The truth, even if it's not what you wish to keep reading......is that whilst you say you have OCD, and are obviously irrationally hyper focused on progressive MS despite your diagnostic evidence, and still obsessively engaged in behaviours that are feeding your anxiety and fears etc. For reasons only you can understand, your diagnosed mental health condition is the very thing, you continually refuse to believe could be YOUR more likely explanation for what you are dealing with based on the evidence or lack there of.

You should be moving heaven and earth, to follow through with any and every potential cause, regardless of what you currently believe if you truly wish to change your tomorrows. Mental health is a legitimate medical condition, and it makes no sense to me why you would rather focus on a medical condition you have no evidence of, instead of focusing on what you already know is your truth!

To be honest, at this stage I highly doubt you will find a neurological explanation or validation your symptoms, if you are possibly looking for confirmation that what you experience is real, then yes it's really happening but from my understanding of MS, the cause is NOT looking to be more than mental health causation but that absolutely doesn't mean you've made it up, it just means that it's a different medical condition and different treatment options.....

Food for thought.........JJ



  

[essdipity]

No. More than 2 bands is indicative of a neuro-positive disease such as MS.  Up to two (most sources agree), do not point to any particular disease. Three or thirteen or however many bands point in the same direction. None of these have significance in terms of MS without other indicators, such as those found under MRI and neuro exam.

Zero bands in diagnosed MS patients is a common result, though in the distinct minority. So LPs don't really indicate MS one way or another. Those tests positive in terms of MS are used as an added factor in diagnosis. Those negative mean nothing one way or another.

[Krispt]

Hi thanks both
Sorry Ess I didn't mean to come across as not agreeing with you
I am seeking help for the anxiety with medication and therapy
I've also taken some time away from work to get away on holidays which has helped a lot too
I know what you guys are saying about the LP too
I was told the lower number of bands tends to be better is that correct?

[kwarendorf]

A positive LP does not = a diagnosis of MS. It simply means there is inflammation in the central nervous system. It does not provide any insight into the cause of the inflammation.

As ess mentioned LPs are becoming increasingly less relied on for MS diagnostic purposes. In most cases they are used to confirm other rsults, like MRI. All by themselves they add little value to the MS diagnostic journey.

Kyle

[essdipity]

Okay then, wait for the LP. If it is positive, it means there's definitely something wrong, though not necessarily MS. If it's negative, this means nothing in the MS world, so will you latch on to that?

Why are you not concurrently taking seriously your acknowledged anxiety/OCD problem and getting help for that? A true scientist draws no conclusions without supporting data. It is clear you have a major anxiety issue, regardless of any other possible illness, so why are you not pursuing this issue aggressively? If, as or when you are cleared of MS, you still have overwhelming health anxiety, by your own statement. If MS is not in question, something else will be, guaranteed. Why live like that?

[Krispt]

Hi Ess
I assume that by the illness you mean anxiety?
It is anxiety causes by a number of physics sumptoms that are getting worse with no cause or cure insight
I am terrified because of the rate this is progressing, something is happening and I was merely asking for opinions i apologise if I offended anyone but I was asking you guys who know more than me how it works
If the lumber puncture is clear then I agree the chances are so small it's ridiculous but I was asking in the meantime what you guys think
Thabks

[essdipity]

In 5% of confirmed MS cases, early MRIs are clear. This doesn't mean there are no lesions, but rather that the imaging hasn't found any. MS requires lesions, as that's the meaning of its name. So in about 19 of 20 cases,early MRIs will be positive. And I suspect the odds of missing lesions are becoming longer and longer as technology improves.

A person without MS lesions, without abnormalities on neurological examination and with normal results on other testing has only an infinitesimal chance of having MS, a vanishing chance when all testing has been repeated multiple times. That person simply does not have MS, nor is it likely that he or she has any other neurological disease.

So something else must account for the symptoms experienced. In this case, the 'something else' has been suggested over and over. If there is resistance, the symptoms won't be treated, nor will the underlying disorder. That is a shame, because of the very unnecessary pain and misery experienced. There are so many untreatable illnesses in the world, and so much suffering. I can't understand it when a person knows very well that his or her illness is treatable, yet won't go that route. It's part of the process, I suppose.

Even if in future years some organic disease does become evident from a medical standpoint, a person like this will still have an underlying illness as well, one that has caused untold pain at a time in life when there should be enjoyment, when opportunities seem endless, when the world is one's oyster. Youth doesn't last long, take it from someone who is now officially old. But I did enjoy my youth and the world was my oyster.

ess

[Krispt]

Is this normal in Ms to have an early clear mri? Or is this suggestive of something rlse? I also read that progressive types tend to have les lesions
And this has kept on orogresing
I've got the muscl twitches and arm pain and weakness now too
Also every night I wake up with my ema numb and fingers curled over numb

[Krispt]

LP is scheduled for next week I think along with a second neuro appointment
And yes the first mri in jan was clear, this one was too of brain and cervical spine, I spend a lot of time in center parcs so Lyme disease is a possibility but not one that we've tested for yet
Nmo has come back negative
Thanks again

[kwarendorf]

If I remember correctly your first MRI was clear of lesions. I guess that means this on is too. Have you had an LP and blood work to rule out MS mimics, like Lyme disease?

Kyle