Dizzy, fuzzy-brained, made worse by physical therapy?

[Fluffysmom]

I had PT today, where there was some pretty deep tissue work and stretching done on my neck and upper back.  My cervical and thoracic are just stuck; causing muscle spasms and radiating pain.

My PT worked on me for at least an hour, with a hot pack on part of my back as she worked on my neck.  She seemed to work on each disc, vertebra, muscle, etc.   She did ice and E-stem for 20 minutes before I left.

When I left, I felt like my head was floating above my body.

I've been having trouble with dizziness, losing my balance, and more than usual fatigue since that virus or whatever it was that I had, but this was beyond that. I walked around in the fresh air until I felt safe to drive home, and then went straight there.

I was unable to do much of anything, and my usual unbalanced dizziness became "my brain's moving inside my skull when I'm lying still".  I tried reading, but my eyes wouldn't maintain focus.  I closed my eyes and waited for my brain to stop floating around while my body seemed to be under extra gravity.  I also started to get a nasty headache, but a vicodin and the ice packs nipped it in the bud.

I'm getting to a question; can massage and gentle manipulation of the spine (just gentle pressure) aggravate a lesion?  Would neck massage and gentle twisting and stretching cause some vestibular aggravation?

My MS neuro told me that the symptoms I was having would be from a cervical lesion, that one time she saw me during a flare and then didn't put it in my chart notes.  

I'm still not clear-headed.  

Do you think my symptoms were just worsening, or do you think it could have something to do with the physical therapy?

Thanks,

Kathy

[mmoret15]

I know this was from awhile ago and I am not sure if anyone is still following this form, but I just came across it and was wondering if you ever found relief? I am going through physical therapy for dizziness right now and my symptoms got worse after they worked on my neck.

[Fluffysmom]

I'll go easy on the heat packs; have them put extra padding between them and me so they loosen up the muscles without overheating me.

I could have my PT work on my knee/lower back, and talk to her about the issues with my neck and upper back while she's working on me.  I just have such muscle tightness and referred pain in my left shoulder and down my arm.  I suppose I could have her work on soft tissue and stay away from the spine, going easy on the stretching and twisting.

I'll suggest the GENTLE strength training.  We started that before I went on vacation for my abs, gluts, and quads, but when I got back she said I was too strong for them and bumped me up to some exercises that increased my pain a lot.  Need some clear communication with her; she is really good, just doesn't seem to realize how much is going on with this body of mine!

Most of my symptoms are variations on old familiar ones; just the change in the  dizziness that is really new.  Makes me wonder if that gallbladder area pain is a variation on a MS Hug, which flared up when she worked on my thoracic area, or just flared up because I'd had a virus and am in an exacerbation of my neurological symptoms caused by "small vessel ischemic disease", ha ha!  

Maybe I'll write an update on my Timeline and e-mail it to my neuro, see if she responds.

I could call my PCP's advice nurse; she was pretty good at following up with me during that virus that sent me to the ER because she thought I might have appendicitis.

Thanks, you two.  I appreciate your suggestions.

Kathy

[essdipity]

Hi, Kath. Wow, I absolutely would avoid having PT work done on the bad areas. It's hard to avoid the conclusion of cause and effect if you haven't had those symptoms before and if they started right after your last session.

Can you get the PT to work on other areas, and maybe do a bit of gentle strength training? If the symptoms don't pass soon you need to see a doctor, though I'm stumped as to what kind. I hope Quix will weigh in here.

Take care,
ess

[Sunnytoday]

that's up you and hopefully some on else will chime in here... but NOOOOO heat packs. 'K?
((((hugs))))

[Fluffysmom]

Well, tomorrow is my next appointment with my physical therapist, and I don't know whether or not to have her work on my neck/shoulders/upper back or not.

I'm still quite dizzy; kept knocking the shampoo bottle off the shelf, dropping the soap, etc. in the shower, stepping on Fluffy's scratching post and almost falling over, bumping into things going around corners, that kind of stuff.

I'll talk to her about the whole thing.  I could just have my knee/lower back worked on, but I think the neck issue should be addressed.

What does anyone else think?

Kathy

[Fluffysmom]

Hi, I'm hanging in there.

I figured that the ice counteracted the hotpacks.  I had already been dizzy before PT; just left worse than before.

My trigeminal neuralgia has been giving me a few jolts, too.  I've had a dull ache, then yesterday I bit down on a wheatberry (from my bread) and really jolted things.  Last night after dinner I thought a scoop of ice cream would be OK, but after a couple of bites (on the opposite side of my mouth), the pain level jumped again.  I had a hard time getting to sleep, between my neck and my jaw pain. My Lyrica didn't calm it down enough.

My eyes are blurry, despite my eye drops, warm compresses, and taking flaxseed capsules.  Sorry to sound so miserable, but I kind of am.  

This time I've noticed a lot of the dizzyness associated with movement; turning my head, turning a corner, etc.  It's also there when I'm sitting or lying down, but when I'm moving I tend to run into or trip over things.

I also have had some pretty intense abdominal pain; mostly up under my ribcage, where I've always though my gallbladder was (which is always very healthy when imaged), but also down from there to the right side of my bellybutton.

I've been lying in bed trying to read, and thought of all of you, and wondered how everyone is doing.  So what do I do, I come on and complain about poor old me.  Sorry, y'all.

My roommate did take me out for breakfast and to TJ Maxx, so I haven't just been a bump on a log.  My 100 mg. of Provigil wore off, so I was glad to come home when it was time for her to go visit her mom.  I decided my long nighty was the most comfortable thing to wear.  Fluffy's asleep in the closet.

I'm going to try and read what everyone else is up to now.

Hugs,

Kathy

[Sunnytoday]

Kathy, keep tabs on it and keep things all written in a time-line in case this turns into something more than just a floaty feeling and a head-ache... you may end up having to call your doctor. 'K?

I know that my PT made me feel a lot worse and I had to rest every afternnoon for several hourse afterwards. I also had to say a big NOOOOO to any hotpacks. Those things aren't safe for anyone with possible MS, and if i remember, you did have one on you, right?

be safe, and let me know how you are tomorrow by msg,
~Sunnytoday~

[Fluffysmom]

The ice doesn't seem to be helping, and now I have an occipital headache; made much worse when I bend my head forward.  I was supposed to get a haircut today, but no way!

Two of my exacerbations of neurological symptoms began with a severe occcipital headache and tremors; the tremors spread from my head and hands to my trunk, and proceeded to a loss of balance and extreme fatigue.  Dizziness, too.

I just looked up occipital headaches, and found that they can be caused by lesions.  Of course, they can be caused by postural things (like holding your phone to your ear with your shoulder) where the muscles lock up.

Oh, and the occipital headache can cause dizziness instead of pain.  All the massage that my PT did should have loosened things up, yet i walked out of there with my head all floaty, then started having a terrible headache, which I apparently just  held off until today.

It is a gorgeous day, and i'm not up to going out and enjoying it.  I did open all the blinds so I can see the gorgeous day.

Kathy

[Fluffysmom]

Thanks, wonko,

My c-spine MRI was clear, though it was ordered by neuro #2 who was sure I didn't have MS; probably not MS protocol, and it was on a 1.5.  My neuro-ophthalmologist discovered a lesion on my pons that no one else had mentioned.  Who knows what I have where?  

The neuro that said my symptoms were from my c-spine didn't put it in her notes, and thinks I have small vessel ischemic disease from small strokes caused by benign arrythmias.

No wonder I wonder what's going on with me!

Thanks for letting me know that you also get vertigo from neck movements; I suppose it could be an vestibular thing.

I didn't think to talk to my physical therapist about it; she only works a few days a week, and I was too out of it to think of it yesterday.

I know that my sports and spine medicine guy told me to stay away from chiropractors after seeing my lumbar and thoracic MRIs.    I'll see if I can find anything on the forum about spinal lesions and manipulation, no matter how gentle.

I've decided to return my rental car tonight rather than tomorrow night.  My vertigo is just too much to drive safely.  I got to my physical therapy and ran some errands today, and that was enough.

I'll get my cervical ice pack out of the freezer and see if it helps.

Thanks again,

Kathy

[wonko]

Hi Kathy,

I have a problem where if I bend my neck, I get a short burst of vertigo.  This is a great excuse not to do crunches, but other than that, a real pain in the, well, neck!  (The last time I tried stomach crunches I felt the room spinning for hours.)

Sometimes if I throw my head back laughing I get this.  Or if I am lying down.  If I am on my back and turn my neck to the side, the room spins.

I have a clear c-spine MRI last year, and as you know I'm in treatment for Lyme and co-infections.  I think my neck/vertigo problems are another weird manifestation of my systemic inflammation.

All of this has been much worse since my car wreck in Dec.

So I can't explain what is happening with you, but I can relate to the situation.  I find some short-term improvement when I ice my neck.  Did you talk to the PT person about what was going on?

I think I've read other stories about concerns over aggravating lesions through neck adjustments, I think some folks have been given warnings to avoid chiropractors and such, but I don't know the official word on this.  Maybe try searching the forum for chiropractor, unless I'm imagining it (a real possibility) it has come up...

Hope this is a small bit o help!

[Fluffysmom]

Thanks for responding.  I just ran a couple of errands and it took so much concentration that my head aches.

My physical therapist didn't really manipulate my spine, just evaluated my condition, and in doing the deep tissue work and pushing to test the tightness of my thoracic, I felt a small adjustment.

The neck was interesting, like where she would turn my head one way and have me gently push back against her hand. I'm not finding the words to describe things, so I think I'll give my brain a rest.

Kathy

[Lulu54]

Gee Kathy,
I really don't know the answer to these questions.  Instinctively I would say this is not a worsening of your symptoms but just an effect of the PT.  But I could be entirely wrong about this.  

I have massage therapy every three weeks, but it does not include spinal manipulation.  

Feel better,
Laura

[Fluffysmom]

bump
I know its not a busy time of the day, but I thought I'd bump this up, keep it visible.