Driver's Licence

[doublevision1]

When you were diagnosed with MS, were you required to report this to your local/provincal/state DMV office?  It's really not clear to me whether this is required by law in Alberta.  It is clear to me that one must report any medical condition that affects driving, but must one report a chronic illness if there has not been any symptoms that affect driving (but could, I suppose, in future)?

My ophtha says that since my diplopia now goes away with a slight left turn of my head, he will not report that I need any driving conditions (ie: for 'corrected diplopia', like an eye patch or prism lenses).  He said he would not be doing this were he not comfortable that I am safe to drive without correction.

I am not really comfortable driving until such time as I don't need to turn my head to accommodate this problem, but would still like to renew my licence which I allowed to lapse since I was too ill to bother going down to the DMV on my birthday.  If I am not required to report my MS/diplopia symtoms to DMV, I would rather not.

Please share any knowledge or experience you may have in this area.  I know the rules will vary from one jurisdiction to another but am curious about your experiences in general on this topic.

Thanks!

db

[Rena705]

Thanks for the tip girl...I deal with one in Millwoods on the southeast side and I haven't had any problems with them so far so I will stick with them...it's a long drive from one side of the city to the other...oh yeah...what am I talking about long drives to you for he he he...you have longest one yet!!

Rena

[doublevision1]

I think I forgot to mention that I finally renewed my drivers' license last week!  I did decide to disclose my MS.  I was getting such mixed messages from medical and DMV people about whether or not I was actually required to do so , so I erred on the side of caution.

The clerk was a bit confused, since my medical report was all good, in terms of no restrictions or conditions on my driving.  But she agreed it was appropriate that I reported my condition, nonetheless.  Now that they know, I will have to renew my license annually, and provide an updated medical report.  This, instead of every 5 years with no medical report.  A bit of a pain but not a huge deal.  

I called my vehicle insurance people too, figured I might as well cover all the bases.  They want a copy of said annual medical report.  This does not affect my rates at all.

In the meantime I still have not gotten behind the wheel.  My double vision is still there on left gaze and at a distance.  I can control it with head movement but still a bit nervous about driving.  Will wait till I get my eyes checked again and see how much more improvement there is.  Also still waiting for my occlusion ptch and Fresnel prism.  I may feel more confident using one of these corrective aids.  Or maybe I'll just keep getting better and won't need them?  One can hope!

Thanks for all your input on this one.  It is a relief to have it done and behind me.  And I was in and out of there in 10 mins, what with the disclosure, medical report, new photo and all!  Not bad for the DMV.  

Rena, if you're reading, this was at the DMV on the west side, off Mayfield Rd. I highly recommend this location for all your licensing and registration needs!!!

db

[Nerve_Wrecked]

It was clear that it's not a matter of what illness you have, but what symptoms you have with that illness.

It's everyone here that has to renew annually. In BC, where I'm from, it's every 5 years as well.

It was no problem with the sleuthing, as I have been thinking about getting my license and wanted to know the specifics, since we have to report it as well here. In BC, to my knowledge, you don't have to.

Christine
(un-dx)

[doublevision1]

Thanks for that info!   I appreciate and share your sleuthing mentality.   How nice of you to look into this and report back.  

It is Interesting that in Sask you have to renew annually. Is that everyone?  Or just those with disability?  In Alta it is every 5 years for class 5 licence, but annually for a declared disability.

Was it clear to you that if you have a dx of MS you MUST report this to Sask DMV?  Or only if you have symptoms that specifically do or may or would or could interfere with driving?

db

[Nerve_Wrecked]

Ok, so I called my provincial insurance company to ask about this. I am currently unlicensed so there was absolutely no risk to me, and I got the scoop.

1) it's situational, based on the symptoms you suffer. Because I personally suffer from bouts of vertigo, until I have been vertigo free for 3 months, I would not be able to get a license. However once I have been vertigo free for 3 months, I'm good to go.

2) Here in Saskatchewan you need to renew annually, so I asked if previous to the annual renewal of my license I would need to be vertigo free for 3 months each year. I was told that no, I didn't, my condition would be monitered (by whom? I'm not sure).

So there's what I managed to find out.

Christine
(un-dx)

[jensequitur]

I think the most important thing is to determine if you're mentally capable of driving.  Many people drive themselves, even with disabilities - they have controls on the steering wheel that help them brake and accelerate.  

But being mentally capable... well...  I think what Quix said about slowed reflexes is absolutely correct. I know my reflexes are slower than they used to be.  I also know that my decision-making capacity isn't working as well as it should.  I don't make the right decisions in heavy traffic, and it's a problem.  I will drive if it's on a country road, and there aren't a lot of other people around, but in downtown traffic, it's best if I don't drive.

[Heather3418]

Excellent and very informative thread.  Thank you for posting this and helping those of us that didn't know anything about some of these regulations, to learn more.

Great...

Heather

[michael1028]

  My vision is corrected good at the present time with meds and prisms on my glasses to drive back and forth to work. I find myself being more cafeful, ie driving slower and being much more aware of my surroundings. I too worry about not being able to drive. I will not drive after dark. If I was not 100% sure that I can drive safely I would not either.
I find that a slight tilt of my head upward will make my vision improve drastically. Long term it is not the best answer.
  I must admit that reporting this to the state or insurance company never crossed my mind. I certainly am glad to hear about this.
Should I look at this as a benefit to being in limbo land ???? LOL!!
Take Care db, good luck with the baking.

Mike  

[doublevision1]

I will let you know what I find out.  I'll bet the requirements are much the same in Sask. as Alta.  I will also try calling my insurance company with the generic question, without revealing my identity when I call.  I agree it would be horrendous if one nullified one's insurance because of this.  

I will also talk to the local MS society.  Surely they get this question from time to time.

Hey I just remembered I have a friend who's a lawyer in Alberta.  I think I'll soon be soliciting a little free legal advice.  I may have to bribe her first with chocolate chip cookies or a banana bread though.  Better go warm up my Mixmaster.

db

[doublevision1]

It seems to me that you and I are very much in the same boat.  I relate to everything you just said.  I think my mindset when I renew my license will be not to volunteer any unsolicited information.

If they ask me if I have any disability that *would* prevent me from driving (the question they asked you), I could comfortably say no.  IF, however they ask me simply do I have a medical condition that *may* prevent me from driving, as it is stated on their website, I think must say yes, since it may, even though it not necessarily would.  See the difference?

So how the question is worded will dictate what I will or won't disclose.  I really hope they ask in a manner similar to how you were asked.  It makes a lot more sense to me and is certainly more relevant to the matter at hand.

db

[Nerve_Wrecked]

I can completely understand your confusion. Here in Saskatchewan it's the same thing, and I have an undiagnosed chronic illness that hasn't affected any driving I've done (which is just around town, as I don't have a license...you all should know I live in a town of 150 with very little traffic though, there's no risk), but I do have myoclonic jerks from time to time as well as sudden bouts of vertigo (not so often).

I'm planning on going for my learner's soon, and have been wondering the same thing. I think I will not only talk to my doctor, but also to SGI (the insurance company here), mainly because I would die if our insurance was nullified in an accident because I didn't report my illness. I'm not sure how things work next door, but there's section in our driver's manual that says "When you apply for or renew your driver's license, any medical condition that may affect your ability to drive must be reported to SGI. Write this information on a supplementary insurance form, available from all license issuers. Failure to do so could result in a loss of insurance coverage." But there is no specification as to what medical conditions "may" affect one's ability to drive.

Sorry I don't have an answer for you. I know that here in Canada it's better than a lot of the states where if you have MS you can lose your license. I know Saskatchewan's not like that, not sure about you.

Ok, so I wrote a book to say "I dunno, let me know if you find out ok?" lol.

Christine
(un-dx)

[santana8]

I just had my drivers license renewed about two months ago,and they did not give me an eye exam, and even if they had I could have passed it because my VA is 20/25. My vision loss is in the field of vision, brain related and not eye related. There was a question on the form asking if I had any disability that would prevent me from driving. I did not put my vision problem on the form.

The reason I didn't was because I haven't driven in two years and I don't plan too as long as this problem is present. Neither my optho or neuro have told me not to drive, but I know I can't and it wouldn't be safe for me and others, so don't!

My condition has been slowly improving, and if it continues to do so and I do recover enough to drive again, then I want to have my license secured. I am the only one who will no if I can do it saftley and when!   I look at it like this, if I recover enough to drive saftely then I still have my license, and if not I can use them for identification purposes!

There may be some people who would attempt to drive with an impairment that could be dangerous, but I am not one of them!  But if I do not improve enough to have a license in the future then I would probally just not reapply for a license.

~Santana~

[doublevision1]

hmmm, I can't even spell the word "correct" correctly (or is that "correcgly"?).  Real bright, ain't I???  

Thank goodness there is no typing test required to get a licence!  lol

[doublevision1]

Thanks all for your feedback thus far.  


Elaine: I'm flabbergasted by the action taken by that neuro and the response by DMV.  It's unbelievably intrusive not to mention presumptuous.  What a huge impact that must have had on that man's life and livelihood.


Sally: Good idea, OT is a good suggestion when one may need such an assessment.  For my situation, I don't think I need something like this as it is only my vision that has caused me to decide not to drive for the past several months, and it has improved and my ophtha says it's all good.  It think now it is more of a comfort thing, that I have not driven in so long and my double vision is still there, even though I can make it go away easily with a turn of the head.  For me the big issue is the dilemma of reporting of MS itself, which may never cause me to have a problem with driving, or at least for a long long time (I hope!)


Rena, I hear what you're saying and that is exactly what I mean about opening a can of worms.  I did worry about a bit about allowing my license to lapse on my birthday when I just didn't feel up to standing in line (2 - 3 hours minimum in this town!) to renew it.  Also I will say vanity played a part, my eyes were still kind of crossed back then and I didn't want my photo taken like that!  Plus this would have been a big hint to them that something was wrong with me.  

I did call though and was told (and verified this on DMV website) that you can renew an expired license in Alberta within 3 years without having to be tested again.  So that is a big relief and if they ask me why I let it expire, I will say I jsut didn't get around to it, haven't been driving, and the line ups are too long and I didn't have time!  When I mentioned to the person on the phone that my licence had expired in January, and would it be a problem to renew at a later date, she just said, Oh, that's no big deal, just come in within the next three years and you'll be fine.  No questions asked.  Hopefully it's the same at the DMV office.

If they do come out and ask point blank if I have any medical conditions, I won't lie.  It will be interesting to see what they day if this happens.  I do have a form signed off by my ophtha saying I'm fine to drive without correction.  If I need to produce it, I will.  My ophtha is a decent and practical fellow and agrees I should not voluntarily disclose since he says I am fit to drive from a vision standpoint.  But of course he does not condone lying if I am asked directly.

I've heard from others who have renewed their licences here in the past year or two that a standard vision test has been instituted.  I never had to do this at the DMV before.  Apparently it is quick and not terribly complicated.  I asked my ophtha about it, he was familiar with the testing method and said I would pass it no problem.

Rena, you are absolutely correcg that I would not attempt to drive if I was not 100% sure that I was totally capable.  However, that I'm an intelligent person....could be up for debate!  hehe   Thanks for the compliment though!  

db

[Super_sally888]

I think occupational therapists can offer driving safety assessments.  If you are not sure and this is available in your area, it might be something to consider.

S

[Rena705]

Hey girl...I have had to deal with a situation similar to this in Alberta.  Because I was diagnosed as having seizures back in 1993, I was "asked" by my neurologist to not drive for at least 6 months after my last seizure.  I was told that if I agree to this that he would not report me to DMV.  Needless to say, I agreed with him and didn't drive until I was seizure free for 6 months.

However, there was never any mention of my or his reporting my diagnosis of MS to DMV whatsoever!  Since I became ill in July 2007, I didn't drive because I didn't feel comfortable driving due to my eyesight and my slow reflexes.  I told my neuro and gp that I was not driving by my own decision and they really didn't comment on it other than to say that they felt I was capable of deciding whether or not I could safely drive and they would leave it up to me.  I have recently started driving short distances on days I feel strong enough but other days I stay home.  The problem with reporting something like this to DMV is that you will have to have tests to ensure you are capable of driving EVERY YEAR at a cost to you.  This cost can be prohibitive in that you would also have to pay for any testing required.

So that said, I believe that you have made the decision not to drive when you felt you were not physically or mentally able and you know yourself well enough that you know when you are able to drive again.  

Also, if you are deemed a high risk driver, your insurance company may be notified and this will raise your insurance premiums.

Please stop to think about what the consequences are if you do notify the DMV of any problems.  As it stands now they are going to ask why you didn't renew your license on your birthday and you probably will have to take a test again...be prepared for that.  I know that you want to do the right thing but make sure you are doing the right thing for the right reason before you jump in and notify anyone of any problems ok?

You have proven to us that you are an intelligent person with a good sense of what is right and I believe you wouldn't attempt to drive if you were not 100% sure that you were totally capable.  The rest is up to you.

Rena

[monotreme]

Well, this came up yesterday when I was talking to my sister in law (ex sister in law actually but we are friends).  She has a brother with MS.  When he was diagnosed with MS, his MS neuro reported him to the state (Pennsylvania) and his license was revoked with no notice  and he was not allowed to prove to anyone that he could drive ok.  Now this is the same neuro at Jefferson in Phila that would not give him access to a vitamin D3 and a testosterone level so go figure.

He was even working at the time.  

My father just had a neuro psych test where one test was done to check his reflexes, and response time .  He was referred to a rehab center where they check your driving skills and try to help you improve and compensate for your deficits.

Elaine

[Quixotic1]

Hmmmm....It would be the kind of reflex-response testing where they can determine that someone with elevated, but legal alcohol levels are still impaired.  But, I don't know who would do that sort of thing that would be available to us.

Possibly a neuropsychologist.

I share your unease at bringing something up and possibly having driving restricted, versus not bringing it up and having insurance invalidated.  I would think that if you have no reason to believe that your driving is impaired, then you are safe.  That has been my rationale.

Quix

[doublevision1]

Thanks Quix!  That is good info you mention about decreased response times.  Do you know of any medical tests that can objectively measure this, if someone were concerned and wanted it checked out?



I just read on the Alberta DMV website: "If you have a medical condition that may affect your driving ability, you must submit a medical report."

That is rather vague, and broad.  It appears to be left to the individual to self-declare.  I would imagine a great many medical conditions *may* affect driving ability.  

Geez, I don't want to lie by omission but really don't want to tell them if I don't have to.   It feels like it will unnecessarily open up a can of worms. I also worry that not declaring this to my automobile insurance company might null and void my insurance if I were in an accident.  However again with the can of worms, if I do mention it and I don't have to.

What a dilemma.  Now I remember why I kept putting this thing off.  

I would never drive if I felt unsafe to do so, whether it be due to vision, fatigue, or whatever else may come my way.

db

[Quixotic1]

To my knowledge notification of MS alone is not reuqired in the States.  However,  I learned of something a few months ago and have been hesitant to put it up.  People with MS very often have decreased response times.  This translates to slower reflexes in driving.  I have not seen reports of increased accidents in people with MS, but it is a good reminder that we all should be aware when we are capable of driving and when we might be impaired.  We should be extra cautious.

In my case, I have driven little since Christmas.  This is becasue my right hip flexor  weakness makes it hard to lift my foot to the brake.  I am no practicing braking with my left foot.  Once I "get it" it will definitely be better.  I am also investigating having hand brakes put on the car.

Quix