Aa
Eye movement
I'm back with yet another question concerning my eyes. My recent eye appointment showed nothing, but retrobulbar optic neuritis was mentioned . . . yet to hear from neuro concerning this. My new concern seems odd, but twice I've had someone laughingly comment on the way I'm "rolling/crossing" my eye. It seems I'm making some facial gesture that ends with one eye moving in a different direction from the other. I am not intentionally moving my eyes, so I now wonder if this could be connected to my other vision issues (blurred vision, socket pain, flashing lights). Any thoughts????
Sherry
Sherry
Thank you all for the feedback. In an attempt to answer the above questions (cog fog) let me say:
* My vision issues started shortly after my classroom air conditioner went on the blink, so heat has played a part. Uhthoff's is very likely.
* The eye doc said "Typical MRI's will not detect retrobulbar optic neuritis. They need to be sliced much thinner."
* I've had my eyes checked 3x in the past two years, and once ten years ago, for visual concerns. All four exams were "normal".
* I do have lesions and elevated IgG. The neuro diagnosed MS, but the MS specialist removed the diagnosis . . . limbo again.
So I still wonder . . . is the odd eye movement a symptom?
* My vision issues started shortly after my classroom air conditioner went on the blink, so heat has played a part. Uhthoff's is very likely.
* The eye doc said "Typical MRI's will not detect retrobulbar optic neuritis. They need to be sliced much thinner."
* I've had my eyes checked 3x in the past two years, and once ten years ago, for visual concerns. All four exams were "normal".
* I do have lesions and elevated IgG. The neuro diagnosed MS, but the MS specialist removed the diagnosis . . . limbo again.
So I still wonder . . . is the odd eye movement a symptom?
Hi, I don't believe we have met yet, but I have been a member of this forum since about Feburary of 2007. I presented two years ago with a sudden onset of vision disturbance while standing in a store. I had no warning, just suddenly became confused in my vision.
It started with confusion about what I was looking at, example, I was looking at prices on chicken, could see the numbers but had confusion about what the numbers were. Over the course of the next three weeks my symptoms worsened to the following in this order.
Distorted vision- straight things looked crooked/ out of line, wavy, wider on the right side
Photophobia( light sensitivity) mild at first and then progressed to total intolerence to any lights inside or outside, then to rapid flashing/flickering lights
Numbness in eyes, forehead, and scalp
Masked vision- looked like I was looking through saran wrap with a flashlight shinning through the other side blinded by the lights.
This is when I had the rapid Flashing/Flickering lights that definately was worse with movement or sound.
Then vision went dim- like everything was in black and white.
All of the above symptoms occured over a period of about one month.
Then I was left with blurred vision, and a visual field defect.
I had twitching around my eyes and in my face at this point.
This is when the deep eye socket pain started in both eyes. Also pain and pressure in my head and face. This pain was severe for a solid three months and was moderate for the next three months. At the six month mark I still had eye pain that came and went about every other day. I continued to have the eye pain for the whole two years until about three months ago when My Optho finally put me on Restasis, because the over the counter tears were not controling my dry eye. about two weeks after starting the Restasis the surface eye symptoms started to clear and the eye pain started to go away. Now it is almost completely gone as long as I remain on the Restasis for the dry eye. I had thought that the deep eye pain was coming from my optic nerves but now that I see that the Restasis is making the pain go away, I have to wonder if the pain was from the severe dry eye syndrome. Antother tip, if you do use the over the counter tears, make sure to use only the ones with no preservatives. I was using the regular ones for a year and it was actually making my symptoms worse. I changed to the Refresh Plus individual use vials, and it made a huge difference.
My Optho and Neuro- Optho both agree that my eye exams ,and I have had several from both specialist over the course of the past two years, were and still remain to be completely normal. Normal Optic nerves, normal Retinas. The only abnormalities that they have found on my eye exams are severe dry eye syndrome, Meibomian Gland Disfuctioon(MGD) and Blepharitis(inflammation of the eye lids). These are all surface signs and confined to the surface of the eye.
The Neuro- Optho speculated that I could have had Retroubulbar Neurits, which is Optic Neuritis but further back on the Optic nerve in the section behind the eye and in the visual pathways in the brain. This was not identified by the many MRI's I have had. But My inital MRI did show multiple white matter lesions Mostly on the Corpus Calossum, Parietal and Occitipal Lobes of my brain. These are all areas that have a lot to do with vision and the visual pathways.
My first VEP was done in 2006 shortly after the onset and I was told that it was possitive and showed slowing. My new neuro, who is an MS specialist just had this test redone about a month ago and this time it was normal.
The visual field defect that this attack caused is called an inferior harmoneous qudrantopia. This and the whole vision damage has been slowly healing over the two years but is not completely gone yet, and I am not sure if it will completely return to normal. I did not receive steriods because the first doctors didn't believe me that I couldn't see because my VA was 20/20. This caused a delay in getting me to a Neuro, and by the time I reached one,eight months had passed since the onset, and too late for the IV steriods. So I have had to heal naturally from this and it has taken two and a half years to regain about 75% of my vision back. Still I cannot drive a car.
None of my doctors, either my neruo or any of my vision specialist have ever given me a definate dx of ON. They are assuming that I had it, but it was never shown either through eye exam or MRI.
My spinal tap was negative and showed No O banding. Because of this test coming back negative and no second attack and no new lesions showing up on repeat MRI's My dx for now is ADEM. MS cannot be ruled out without continual repeat MRI's to look for new lesions. I am going to have my fifth repeat MRI on Sept,11th the four other ones showed nothing new.
Apparently On can not always been seen either on eye exam or through MRI, but I would say I agree with my neuro- optho that I did have Retroubulbar Neurits. I did have all of the symptoms and I am still living with the vision loss to proove it.
Sorry this was so long but I wanted to share with you the long and unpredictable road to trying to pin down this dx. Sometimes it can be seen easily and sometimes it is never seen but obviously there by proof of the tests and the damage it causes.
Hope this helps you
~Santana~
It started with confusion about what I was looking at, example, I was looking at prices on chicken, could see the numbers but had confusion about what the numbers were. Over the course of the next three weeks my symptoms worsened to the following in this order.
Distorted vision- straight things looked crooked/ out of line, wavy, wider on the right side
Photophobia( light sensitivity) mild at first and then progressed to total intolerence to any lights inside or outside, then to rapid flashing/flickering lights
Numbness in eyes, forehead, and scalp
Masked vision- looked like I was looking through saran wrap with a flashlight shinning through the other side blinded by the lights.
This is when I had the rapid Flashing/Flickering lights that definately was worse with movement or sound.
Then vision went dim- like everything was in black and white.
All of the above symptoms occured over a period of about one month.
Then I was left with blurred vision, and a visual field defect.
I had twitching around my eyes and in my face at this point.
This is when the deep eye socket pain started in both eyes. Also pain and pressure in my head and face. This pain was severe for a solid three months and was moderate for the next three months. At the six month mark I still had eye pain that came and went about every other day. I continued to have the eye pain for the whole two years until about three months ago when My Optho finally put me on Restasis, because the over the counter tears were not controling my dry eye. about two weeks after starting the Restasis the surface eye symptoms started to clear and the eye pain started to go away. Now it is almost completely gone as long as I remain on the Restasis for the dry eye. I had thought that the deep eye pain was coming from my optic nerves but now that I see that the Restasis is making the pain go away, I have to wonder if the pain was from the severe dry eye syndrome. Antother tip, if you do use the over the counter tears, make sure to use only the ones with no preservatives. I was using the regular ones for a year and it was actually making my symptoms worse. I changed to the Refresh Plus individual use vials, and it made a huge difference.
My Optho and Neuro- Optho both agree that my eye exams ,and I have had several from both specialist over the course of the past two years, were and still remain to be completely normal. Normal Optic nerves, normal Retinas. The only abnormalities that they have found on my eye exams are severe dry eye syndrome, Meibomian Gland Disfuctioon(MGD) and Blepharitis(inflammation of the eye lids). These are all surface signs and confined to the surface of the eye.
The Neuro- Optho speculated that I could have had Retroubulbar Neurits, which is Optic Neuritis but further back on the Optic nerve in the section behind the eye and in the visual pathways in the brain. This was not identified by the many MRI's I have had. But My inital MRI did show multiple white matter lesions Mostly on the Corpus Calossum, Parietal and Occitipal Lobes of my brain. These are all areas that have a lot to do with vision and the visual pathways.
My first VEP was done in 2006 shortly after the onset and I was told that it was possitive and showed slowing. My new neuro, who is an MS specialist just had this test redone about a month ago and this time it was normal.
The visual field defect that this attack caused is called an inferior harmoneous qudrantopia. This and the whole vision damage has been slowly healing over the two years but is not completely gone yet, and I am not sure if it will completely return to normal. I did not receive steriods because the first doctors didn't believe me that I couldn't see because my VA was 20/20. This caused a delay in getting me to a Neuro, and by the time I reached one,eight months had passed since the onset, and too late for the IV steriods. So I have had to heal naturally from this and it has taken two and a half years to regain about 75% of my vision back. Still I cannot drive a car.
None of my doctors, either my neruo or any of my vision specialist have ever given me a definate dx of ON. They are assuming that I had it, but it was never shown either through eye exam or MRI.
My spinal tap was negative and showed No O banding. Because of this test coming back negative and no second attack and no new lesions showing up on repeat MRI's My dx for now is ADEM. MS cannot be ruled out without continual repeat MRI's to look for new lesions. I am going to have my fifth repeat MRI on Sept,11th the four other ones showed nothing new.
Apparently On can not always been seen either on eye exam or through MRI, but I would say I agree with my neuro- optho that I did have Retroubulbar Neurits. I did have all of the symptoms and I am still living with the vision loss to proove it.
Sorry this was so long but I wanted to share with you the long and unpredictable road to trying to pin down this dx. Sometimes it can be seen easily and sometimes it is never seen but obviously there by proof of the tests and the damage it causes.
Hope this helps you
~Santana~
I think what the opthamologist was saying is that the optic neuritis is not seen, but may in fact be there--retro, or behind, the eye.
This sounds like what you may have which, like you said, needs an MRI to find. I don't understand why he's thinking it's Uhthoff's, unless you only get these symptoms in the heat.
I go through periods of time when my eyes are crossing, too. Most of the time it's in the mornings or in the evenings and I will sometimes notice that I'm doing it and can even correct it for a short period of time, and then they are right back to crossing again. I also have trouble with my eyes jerking occasionally, too (I notice this when reading).
I've gone in to the opthamologist, when I had this problem, thinking that I had optic neuritis, only to discover that there wasn't any visible signs of the problem. This last time I went to the opthamologist, I wasn't having the eye crossing problem or jerking movements. However, I was having the blurry, double vision problem (that I've had for a long time). When he held up a red pen, I was shocked to discover that in my right eye, the pen looked orange. He saw that the optic nerve was swollen in that eye and I was diagnosed with optic neuritis.
I'm just curious, do you have any other weird symptoms that go along with this? I have ringing in my ears that is louder with movements of my eyes. I wonder if this has to do with the retrobulbular optic neuritis or if it has something to do with the cranial nerve that deals with hearing. I do get clicking sounds, a lot like Morse Code, in my ears, too.
Deb
This sounds like what you may have which, like you said, needs an MRI to find. I don't understand why he's thinking it's Uhthoff's, unless you only get these symptoms in the heat.
I go through periods of time when my eyes are crossing, too. Most of the time it's in the mornings or in the evenings and I will sometimes notice that I'm doing it and can even correct it for a short period of time, and then they are right back to crossing again. I also have trouble with my eyes jerking occasionally, too (I notice this when reading).
I've gone in to the opthamologist, when I had this problem, thinking that I had optic neuritis, only to discover that there wasn't any visible signs of the problem. This last time I went to the opthamologist, I wasn't having the eye crossing problem or jerking movements. However, I was having the blurry, double vision problem (that I've had for a long time). When he held up a red pen, I was shocked to discover that in my right eye, the pen looked orange. He saw that the optic nerve was swollen in that eye and I was diagnosed with optic neuritis.
I'm just curious, do you have any other weird symptoms that go along with this? I have ringing in my ears that is louder with movements of my eyes. I wonder if this has to do with the retrobulbular optic neuritis or if it has something to do with the cranial nerve that deals with hearing. I do get clicking sounds, a lot like Morse Code, in my ears, too.
Deb
Actually, I have not been diagnosed with optic neuritis. The eye looked "great", but the doc said my symtoms were consistent with Uhthoff"s. He said that it is possible they could stem from retrobulbar neuritis . . . which requires an MRI to diagnose. This appointment was just two weeks ago, but I was totally unaware that they my eyes were moving oddly at the time.
Hi,
Is the blurred vision all the time? Are you seeing double?
The reason I ask is because I started having double vision, blurred vision, and later optic pain. I was found to have poor muscle control in my eyes - strabismus, or the good old fashioned squint. Nobody has yet told me why this has happened. The double vision and bluriness could be corrected by me if I concentrated on focusing and wasn't too tired, in my case my eyes were wandering away from each other.
I have severe dry eyes and was told that was contributing to the deep internal pain, but as you have already diagnosed optic neuritis this could be the cause.
What is more concerning is the flashing lights. That as I was told at the hospital can be a sign of a problem with the retina which needs imediate attention. If this is worsening of you are suddenly seeing things blackening out you need to get to the emergency department straight away.
If they clear you of an urgent problem keep pressing the issue with your neruologist or ask to be referred to an ophalmologist who specializes in srabismus.
I was very surprised that after being discharged from my eye hospital as they said my neurologist was already seeing me, at another hospital, they took me back after I phoned them and said the symptoms were still there and could I please have an eye specialist re-assess them. Not only have they taken me back but the clinical director is going to assess me personally. Sometimes it pays off to push your case a bit. They knew I had a problem, but were hoping I would go away as I was seeing someone else.
Many hospital decisions are about budgets etc., but if your case warrants attention they will see you, they have to. After you've got the all clear from eg. retinal detachment ask for an early appointment with your neurologist, and an appropriate referral.
wish
Is the blurred vision all the time? Are you seeing double?
The reason I ask is because I started having double vision, blurred vision, and later optic pain. I was found to have poor muscle control in my eyes - strabismus, or the good old fashioned squint. Nobody has yet told me why this has happened. The double vision and bluriness could be corrected by me if I concentrated on focusing and wasn't too tired, in my case my eyes were wandering away from each other.
I have severe dry eyes and was told that was contributing to the deep internal pain, but as you have already diagnosed optic neuritis this could be the cause.
What is more concerning is the flashing lights. That as I was told at the hospital can be a sign of a problem with the retina which needs imediate attention. If this is worsening of you are suddenly seeing things blackening out you need to get to the emergency department straight away.
If they clear you of an urgent problem keep pressing the issue with your neruologist or ask to be referred to an ophalmologist who specializes in srabismus.
I was very surprised that after being discharged from my eye hospital as they said my neurologist was already seeing me, at another hospital, they took me back after I phoned them and said the symptoms were still there and could I please have an eye specialist re-assess them. Not only have they taken me back but the clinical director is going to assess me personally. Sometimes it pays off to push your case a bit. They knew I had a problem, but were hoping I would go away as I was seeing someone else.
Many hospital decisions are about budgets etc., but if your case warrants attention they will see you, they have to. After you've got the all clear from eg. retinal detachment ask for an early appointment with your neurologist, and an appropriate referral.
wish
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