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Headache and MS
So, as many of you have probably already noticed, the headache dx ticks me off! I've done the search for headache and MS before, but today I really had to dig in because of poor rendeans thread after her visit with the "fellow." The search comes up with over three million articles and blogs related to the correlation between MS and headaches. This small piece comes off of the MS Society website:
"One report noted that migraine headaches were more than twice as common in a group of MS patients than in a matched group of people without MS. Other investigators found a prior diagnosis of migraine in one-third of the MS group being studied. A third study found that 20% of a sample group of people with MS had a family history of migraine, compared to 10% of controls, suggesting that there may be a common predisposing factor to both MS and migraine. Vascular or migraine type headaches have even been reported as the first symptom of MS."
The question remains: If these Neurologists have gone through YEARS of schooling and spent hundreds of thousands on their educations, then why can't they get past the headache dx??????
Thanks for letting me rant!
Heather
"One report noted that migraine headaches were more than twice as common in a group of MS patients than in a matched group of people without MS. Other investigators found a prior diagnosis of migraine in one-third of the MS group being studied. A third study found that 20% of a sample group of people with MS had a family history of migraine, compared to 10% of controls, suggesting that there may be a common predisposing factor to both MS and migraine. Vascular or migraine type headaches have even been reported as the first symptom of MS."
The question remains: If these Neurologists have gone through YEARS of schooling and spent hundreds of thousands on their educations, then why can't they get past the headache dx??????
Thanks for letting me rant!
Heather
I guess another thing that gets in the way for me is that I have never been dx with MIGRAINE. It's been chronic daily headache or new persistant daily headache depending on which report you look at. Migraine seems to be such an overused word - at least for someone like me.
Hopefully this new neuro will be able to see around the headaches.
Thanks for all of your thoughts on this.
Heather
Hopefully this new neuro will be able to see around the headaches.
Thanks for all of your thoughts on this.
Heather
Heather3418, I had a summer of migraines the year I turned 40, but nothing for another twelve years. I then had one in February 2009. As Nancy T described, these were all short-duration events, lasting at most a half day. My present balance and vision problems have lasted for months on end. Migraine, the neuro says, because he's too lazy to look further. Funny how the migraine drugs he and others have tried all make my symptoms worse.
Hi Heather--regarding what your neurologist said, it's true that migraineurs remain migraineurs for life...
BUT!! Migraines frequently (in fact, I think usually) come at certain times in a person's life, disappear for years, and then recur in the same or a different manifestation at a different time in your life.
For example, I had frequent (not severe) headaches in high school, which I'm now sure were migraines, although I didn't think anything about them at the time. They went away.
At age 42, I suddenly had an ocular migraine--the classic visual migraine aura. That's when I discovered I was a migraineur. This occurred when I was just hitting perimenopause full force. Hormonal changes--puberty, menopause--can bring on a period of migraines.
I only had 3 of the visual migraines (no headache at all) over a few months, and none since in the past 10 years.
But several years later, I went through a period of months or years when I'd sometimes wake up very nauseated and with a little diarrhea. I was sure I was getting stomach flu, but in two or three hours I'd be fine. I believe those were migraines as well.
Migraines, being a neurological phenomenon with a vascular component, can affect many body systems as the attack spreads into the brainstem; it can cause headache, visual disturbance, cognitive disturbance (difficulty understanding speech), difficulty speaking, numbness in the face or body, dizziness, nausea, photophobia and phonophobia (light and sound sensitivity), and other symptoms. At one time in your life you might have one or more of these symptoms during a migraine attack; at other times in your life your migraines might be completely different.
It's a weird thing, all right!
With the high misdiagnosis rate of MS (isn't it thought to be 10 percent?), there are undoubtedly migraineurs misdiagnosed with MS and MSers misdiagnosed with migraine!
However, I should think that any LASTING symptoms, ones that last more than a few hours, should not be attributed to migraine. But I'm no expert.
I keep trying to attribute many of my symptoms to migraine, but the doctors haven't bought that theory (except for the visual aura, of course). They keep brushing me off when I ask about migraine as a possibility for the dizziness.
Migraine is very common in the general population, so it's not surprising that many people can have BOTH migraines and MS. But they seem to be caused by different things. Migraineurs do have a nervous system that is more sensitive in that it reacts to certain stimuli that are well-known migraine triggers--certain substances in food, flashing lights, stress, etc. As for migraineurs being more "astute," I have heard about a "migraine personality" but that might be an old myth, not sure!
Nancy
BUT!! Migraines frequently (in fact, I think usually) come at certain times in a person's life, disappear for years, and then recur in the same or a different manifestation at a different time in your life.
For example, I had frequent (not severe) headaches in high school, which I'm now sure were migraines, although I didn't think anything about them at the time. They went away.
At age 42, I suddenly had an ocular migraine--the classic visual migraine aura. That's when I discovered I was a migraineur. This occurred when I was just hitting perimenopause full force. Hormonal changes--puberty, menopause--can bring on a period of migraines.
I only had 3 of the visual migraines (no headache at all) over a few months, and none since in the past 10 years.
But several years later, I went through a period of months or years when I'd sometimes wake up very nauseated and with a little diarrhea. I was sure I was getting stomach flu, but in two or three hours I'd be fine. I believe those were migraines as well.
Migraines, being a neurological phenomenon with a vascular component, can affect many body systems as the attack spreads into the brainstem; it can cause headache, visual disturbance, cognitive disturbance (difficulty understanding speech), difficulty speaking, numbness in the face or body, dizziness, nausea, photophobia and phonophobia (light and sound sensitivity), and other symptoms. At one time in your life you might have one or more of these symptoms during a migraine attack; at other times in your life your migraines might be completely different.
It's a weird thing, all right!
With the high misdiagnosis rate of MS (isn't it thought to be 10 percent?), there are undoubtedly migraineurs misdiagnosed with MS and MSers misdiagnosed with migraine!
However, I should think that any LASTING symptoms, ones that last more than a few hours, should not be attributed to migraine. But I'm no expert.
I keep trying to attribute many of my symptoms to migraine, but the doctors haven't bought that theory (except for the visual aura, of course). They keep brushing me off when I ask about migraine as a possibility for the dizziness.
Migraine is very common in the general population, so it's not surprising that many people can have BOTH migraines and MS. But they seem to be caused by different things. Migraineurs do have a nervous system that is more sensitive in that it reacts to certain stimuli that are well-known migraine triggers--certain substances in food, flashing lights, stress, etc. As for migraineurs being more "astute," I have heard about a "migraine personality" but that might be an old myth, not sure!
Nancy
I actually believe that the MS "started" many, many years ago, when I had migraines several days a week, for almost one year. As suddenly as they came on, they suddenly disappeared from my life. My Neurologist mentioned that this was unusual, as most people suffer from migraines for many years, if not their entire life.
Had MRI been available back in those days when I was having migraines, I believe it would have shown the start of lesions, they now say are caused by MS. I have always felt that migraines and MS have a connection. Many others have reported "spots" on MRI, when they are having episodes of migraines.
I believe that the migraines may be caused by a lesion forming, along with inflammation, that "irritates" the brain and the surrounding nerves. At least that's my opinion. There may be no medical evidence to back that up.
I will always think that my one year duration of migraines, was actually my first "attack" of MS. My Neuro at the time, thought so too. That's back when he was a decent doctor that actually listened and took care of his patients. That faded with time, so I left his care.
Doctor's DO like to blame "spots" in the brain on migraines, as they have done for years. Without further investigation, I think that's a "lazy" diagnosis on the Neuro's part and a more simple, EASY diagnosis for him/her, that requires no further investigation for them. Laziness.... It just leaves the patient hanging, which is a travesty. Further investigation is needed, as I know that you feel and many others feel.
Heather
Had MRI been available back in those days when I was having migraines, I believe it would have shown the start of lesions, they now say are caused by MS. I have always felt that migraines and MS have a connection. Many others have reported "spots" on MRI, when they are having episodes of migraines.
I believe that the migraines may be caused by a lesion forming, along with inflammation, that "irritates" the brain and the surrounding nerves. At least that's my opinion. There may be no medical evidence to back that up.
I will always think that my one year duration of migraines, was actually my first "attack" of MS. My Neuro at the time, thought so too. That's back when he was a decent doctor that actually listened and took care of his patients. That faded with time, so I left his care.
Doctor's DO like to blame "spots" in the brain on migraines, as they have done for years. Without further investigation, I think that's a "lazy" diagnosis on the Neuro's part and a more simple, EASY diagnosis for him/her, that requires no further investigation for them. Laziness.... It just leaves the patient hanging, which is a travesty. Further investigation is needed, as I know that you feel and many others feel.
Heather
i have to say i agree with borntolose102 on this thread. after years of being in the VA system(s) i can echo his thoughts. a great many other veterans feel the same
to heather, i do not know but i know i have come close to going ballistic when they pawn that off. especially when they tell me they haven't even read the films yet.
to heather, i do not know but i know i have come close to going ballistic when they pawn that off. especially when they tell me they haven't even read the films yet.
You are correct, his theory is full of holes. My lesions are minimal for MS only 2 which are considered "classic" for dx. One of those is in the corpus callosum which I looked up again last night and lesions in this area are either MS or neoplasm.
Wonder if they did an MRI of his brain if it would show that it's full of holes like his theory.
Ren
Wonder if they did an MRI of his brain if it would show that it's full of holes like his theory.
Ren
So basically his explanation is along the lines of "we're just paying too much attention to our bodies"...? This irritates me, just like everything that drs. can't explain being called "migraine."
What amazes me in your case is that you already *have* a dx of MS and the doofus still wanted to chalk it up to migraine. At least in my case they couldn't find any lesions, which is what lead to the migraine "dx."
If the fellow's theory was correct, wouldn't that mean that painful stimuli should trigger migraines in susceptible people? But it doesn't (not in me, or anyone else I know of). Not much of a theory, eh? (Although I do find I'm more sensitive to other pain when I have a bad migraine, but I think that's true of pain in general. That's why women in childbirth sometimes don't like to be touched.)
Stephanie
What amazes me in your case is that you already *have* a dx of MS and the doofus still wanted to chalk it up to migraine. At least in my case they couldn't find any lesions, which is what lead to the migraine "dx."
If the fellow's theory was correct, wouldn't that mean that painful stimuli should trigger migraines in susceptible people? But it doesn't (not in me, or anyone else I know of). Not much of a theory, eh? (Although I do find I'm more sensitive to other pain when I have a bad migraine, but I think that's true of pain in general. That's why women in childbirth sometimes don't like to be touched.)
Stephanie
I wonder if that explanation has any merit. My sister has suffered with severe migraines (no MS) virtually all of her adult life. She's on a beta blocker and loads of Imitrex. I wouldn't say she's more 'astute' than other people, and I strongly doubt she'd say that either.
Sounds like that 'fellow' wants to see himself as some sort of delicate flower.
ess
Sounds like that 'fellow' wants to see himself as some sort of delicate flower.
ess
Yesterday's bozo claimed migraines are a sensory disturbance. Those susceptible to migraines have a sensitive sensory system so that any pain or discomfort experienced by the person is channeled through the sensory and pain pathways and exhibits as a migraine.
He said that it is a double-edge sword, in that, migrainers suffer from migraines but they are more astute to other things around them. Too bad he wasn't more astute to actually reading my neuro's records!
He said that it is a double-edge sword, in that, migrainers suffer from migraines but they are more astute to other things around them. Too bad he wasn't more astute to actually reading my neuro's records!
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