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Heat and the connection to MS
Morning All,
Can someone educate me on the heat connection to MS. Let me preface my inquiry by saying that I am post menopausal and I am not talking "hot flashes" here ok?! After 20 year in Fla I, the last year or so I could not take the heat anymore. Now back in NY the "forced" heat in my office or other places makes me physically sick, I feel like I could pass out. A co-worker keeps a small heater under her desk and at least 3 times a day I have to get up and go outside for fresh cold air so I don't pass out. I have always loved the cold but could tolerate heat and humidty. Over the last year though it really takes it toll on me. Am I just getting old and cranky or is there some connection to this MS dx I am seeking. Thanks as always guys!
Sue
Can someone educate me on the heat connection to MS. Let me preface my inquiry by saying that I am post menopausal and I am not talking "hot flashes" here ok?! After 20 year in Fla I, the last year or so I could not take the heat anymore. Now back in NY the "forced" heat in my office or other places makes me physically sick, I feel like I could pass out. A co-worker keeps a small heater under her desk and at least 3 times a day I have to get up and go outside for fresh cold air so I don't pass out. I have always loved the cold but could tolerate heat and humidty. Over the last year though it really takes it toll on me. Am I just getting old and cranky or is there some connection to this MS dx I am seeking. Thanks as always guys!
Sue
I know that i dont have MS so i hope you dont mind me jumping in. I have Temporal arteritis and it causes very heavy sweating as well as the steriods.I have gone the whole winter in a tee-shirt with the heat barely on cause of the rest of the family. I am going on hoildays soon to a hot country( seemed a good idea at the time!) and just dont know how I will get thru it. All your tips were fantastic! And I will try them all out. Just a point, my body temp is never higher than 95.5-96 degrees. It seems low. Best of luck to everyone. Heres hoping you get some relief! Cath278
Hi Jo,
I use my cool vest when exersising; It would be impossible for me to exercise at all without it. I always have my neck cooler thingy (i'm not sure what to call it) and water to drink and poor a little on me it I have too. Evaporative cooling is amazing.
I don't know, I am new here, but I don't think there is much if any of a difference if you have a dx or not if you have a the same symptoms why not jump in and have a demyelination discussion?????
I use my cool vest when exersising; It would be impossible for me to exercise at all without it. I always have my neck cooler thingy (i'm not sure what to call it) and water to drink and poor a little on me it I have too. Evaporative cooling is amazing.
I don't know, I am new here, but I don't think there is much if any of a difference if you have a dx or not if you have a the same symptoms why not jump in and have a demyelination discussion?????
Sue
Thanks for bringing this subject up .
I exercise every morning , walk 40 - 60 min. in the a.m. Sometimes its pretty difficult, recently I have had more energy and am able to walk faster than the turtle. After , I drive home , get out of my car and can barely move , seriously impaired.
I feel the walking is one of the most important things that I do for myself. In the summer, I live in Fl. , we walk in the mall , and it happens there too. How do we exercise AND stay cool . Do these vest work for this ??
I'm not dx.d and may never be, so now I feel strange about asking for advise on specific MS issues, but maybe we could discuss general demyelination and MS, what's the diff.( sometime)
Thanks for the info on this vest Jo
Thanks for bringing this subject up .
I exercise every morning , walk 40 - 60 min. in the a.m. Sometimes its pretty difficult, recently I have had more energy and am able to walk faster than the turtle. After , I drive home , get out of my car and can barely move , seriously impaired.
I feel the walking is one of the most important things that I do for myself. In the summer, I live in Fl. , we walk in the mall , and it happens there too. How do we exercise AND stay cool . Do these vest work for this ??
I'm not dx.d and may never be, so now I feel strange about asking for advise on specific MS issues, but maybe we could discuss general demyelination and MS, what's the diff.( sometime)
Thanks for the info on this vest Jo
The MS Association of America has a "Cooling Device Distribution Program" where they distribute FREE cooling devices (vests, collars, hats, bandanas) to those with MS.
I don't know the exact requirements, but you can find more info plus a catalog and application here:
http://www.msassociation.org/programs/cooling/
HTH!
Take care! Pat :)
I don't know the exact requirements, but you can find more info plus a catalog and application here:
http://www.msassociation.org/programs/cooling/
HTH!
Take care! Pat :)
Thanks much for the explanation! Thank goodness I live alone, I havent turned the heat on once all winter! I will Goggle to find myself some "cool"! Hope your having a good day.
Sue
Sue
Hey Quix,
I was writing my last post when you sent your last post. Yes, I am very slow -- ask anybody :)
Thank you very much for the welcome and the invite to start a post about me. I think I will, but I am a pretty boring person so I will have to think about what to write.
As far as this fast/slow nerve transmission, I think we all might be saying the same thing just in different ways as I'm pretty sure MS (as nasty as it is) doesn't break any laws and/or rules of nature. I think the thing is yes it slows down in the fact that it takes longer to get signals from your brain (point A) to point B or the other way around. However it slows down or takes longer because the nerve transmission is moving faster and bouncing all over the place and when it hits a spot that has been demyelated it "gets off track" or as my doc said "short circuts" resulting in the overall "slow down" of the signal we started with that I should have just left alone.
It is very interesting to me though and I will try to find some actual scientific papers on it. Like I said I have a very boring life currently with no job, feeling too crudy to do stuff on and on. I will save it for my self intro post.
Alamosa B.S.
Bachelor of Science in Biology and the other kind of BS too :)
I was writing my last post when you sent your last post. Yes, I am very slow -- ask anybody :)
Thank you very much for the welcome and the invite to start a post about me. I think I will, but I am a pretty boring person so I will have to think about what to write.
As far as this fast/slow nerve transmission, I think we all might be saying the same thing just in different ways as I'm pretty sure MS (as nasty as it is) doesn't break any laws and/or rules of nature. I think the thing is yes it slows down in the fact that it takes longer to get signals from your brain (point A) to point B or the other way around. However it slows down or takes longer because the nerve transmission is moving faster and bouncing all over the place and when it hits a spot that has been demyelated it "gets off track" or as my doc said "short circuts" resulting in the overall "slow down" of the signal we started with that I should have just left alone.
It is very interesting to me though and I will try to find some actual scientific papers on it. Like I said I have a very boring life currently with no job, feeling too crudy to do stuff on and on. I will save it for my self intro post.
Alamosa B.S.
Bachelor of Science in Biology and the other kind of BS too :)
A cool vest is just a vest that you can put Ice or Ice like packets in and it really helps to keep you cool. At first I used an old fly-fishing vest and put normal ice packs like the ones you would put in a lunch box or something. It worked OK, but it was a uncomfortable and didn't work near as good as the real cool vest.
I can't find the info right now on the one I got, but I'm sure if you googled MS and cool vest you would get much more info. - yes I just checked there is a lot of info. They are kind of expensive mine was $250 and I'm not rich but it was the best thing I could have done with my money. It was a NEED!!! Not a want.
I hope you can get one!!!
I can't find the info right now on the one I got, but I'm sure if you googled MS and cool vest you would get much more info. - yes I just checked there is a lot of info. They are kind of expensive mine was $250 and I'm not rich but it was the best thing I could have done with my money. It was a NEED!!! Not a want.
I hope you can get one!!!
I have to weigh in here on this topic. Heather is actually accurate about the problem with heat in MS. Normally in biological systems, heats speads everything up. The heart beats faster, things metabolize faster, water evaporates fast. All of this is true.
But, the problem in Multiple Sclerosis is that the nerves of the brain and spinal cord have damaged myelin. Myelin is a fatty white substance (the "white matter" of the brain) which surrounds and insulates the long nerve fibers that carry information out toward the body and the nerves that bring information (like sensations) back to the brain. The myelin allows the nerve to conduct it's signal most efficiently and at maximum velocity.
If there are areas of myelin damage, those areas have weakened or loss of insulation. The signal truly SLOWS down; slows enough to be measureable. This slowing is responsible for many of the symptoms. In Optic Neuritis the signal velocity from the point where the retina of the eye pick up the image to the point that it reaches the visual processing part of the brain is markedly slower than normal. In a person with MS, the EEG (brain wave testing) often shows diffuse slowing of the brain waves.
The Heat Intolerance in MS occurs because of two things. One it is believed that people with MS have an altered ability to maintain their internal temperature at the correct point. The second is the effect of even a fraction of a degree rise in the body's core temperature brings on symptoms, as the damaged nerve fibers begin to lose their signal speed. So a little bit of exercise, a warm room, a hot day, a fever, will all often bring on symptoms or make the symptoms that a person already has much worse.
We discussed this a while back and many of us have noticed that we have a preferred room temp of about 66 to 68 degrees. This can cause a lot of disagreement in families.
If I start to get to warm I notice two things immediately. I become weak and very irriatable.
Alamosa - I don't remember talking to you before. Welcome to the forum! And thanks for brings up the cooling vest! As the weather starts to warm up we need to begin talking about the cooling garments, vests, hats, neck, coolers, etc. We also need to talk about "precooling" yourself before exercise and preventing situations in which we might over heat.
But, about the heat speeding things up. This is not correct. I suspect that he gave you the analogy of "heating up and short-circuiting" because it makes sense, and you would remember it. In truth, it isn't important for the patient to understand that heat can cause signal slowing or even complete block. I made the correction here because we have repeated discussed this slowing signal speed that occurs with demyelination. I wanted to keep the information correct and consistent, so as not to confuse the people who have heard us talk about signal slowing.
Although heat usually just causes a temporary increase in symptoms (called a pseudo-exacerbation), it "can" actually precipitate a true relapse. So, prevention is important. I mentioned to my neuro that I got weak after a hot shower (this was right after I was diagnosed). He actually forbade me from taking hot baths or showers. He feels that even these "pseudo exacerbations" can do minute amounts of incremental damage.
Sue - You can search online for "MS cooling garments" or " MS cooling vest " and find sites to buy or make your own garments.
BTW - MS is one of the conditions in which the purchase of an air conditioner is a medical tax deduction on the federal taxes! It is recognized that heat is that detrimental for a person with MS.
Alamosa - Welocme again! Would you be willing to start your own thread and tell us about yourself?
Quix, MD (unoffical and not in practice)
But, the problem in Multiple Sclerosis is that the nerves of the brain and spinal cord have damaged myelin. Myelin is a fatty white substance (the "white matter" of the brain) which surrounds and insulates the long nerve fibers that carry information out toward the body and the nerves that bring information (like sensations) back to the brain. The myelin allows the nerve to conduct it's signal most efficiently and at maximum velocity.
If there are areas of myelin damage, those areas have weakened or loss of insulation. The signal truly SLOWS down; slows enough to be measureable. This slowing is responsible for many of the symptoms. In Optic Neuritis the signal velocity from the point where the retina of the eye pick up the image to the point that it reaches the visual processing part of the brain is markedly slower than normal. In a person with MS, the EEG (brain wave testing) often shows diffuse slowing of the brain waves.
The Heat Intolerance in MS occurs because of two things. One it is believed that people with MS have an altered ability to maintain their internal temperature at the correct point. The second is the effect of even a fraction of a degree rise in the body's core temperature brings on symptoms, as the damaged nerve fibers begin to lose their signal speed. So a little bit of exercise, a warm room, a hot day, a fever, will all often bring on symptoms or make the symptoms that a person already has much worse.
We discussed this a while back and many of us have noticed that we have a preferred room temp of about 66 to 68 degrees. This can cause a lot of disagreement in families.
If I start to get to warm I notice two things immediately. I become weak and very irriatable.
Alamosa - I don't remember talking to you before. Welcome to the forum! And thanks for brings up the cooling vest! As the weather starts to warm up we need to begin talking about the cooling garments, vests, hats, neck, coolers, etc. We also need to talk about "precooling" yourself before exercise and preventing situations in which we might over heat.
But, about the heat speeding things up. This is not correct. I suspect that he gave you the analogy of "heating up and short-circuiting" because it makes sense, and you would remember it. In truth, it isn't important for the patient to understand that heat can cause signal slowing or even complete block. I made the correction here because we have repeated discussed this slowing signal speed that occurs with demyelination. I wanted to keep the information correct and consistent, so as not to confuse the people who have heard us talk about signal slowing.
Although heat usually just causes a temporary increase in symptoms (called a pseudo-exacerbation), it "can" actually precipitate a true relapse. So, prevention is important. I mentioned to my neuro that I got weak after a hot shower (this was right after I was diagnosed). He actually forbade me from taking hot baths or showers. He feels that even these "pseudo exacerbations" can do minute amounts of incremental damage.
Sue - You can search online for "MS cooling garments" or " MS cooling vest " and find sites to buy or make your own garments.
BTW - MS is one of the conditions in which the purchase of an air conditioner is a medical tax deduction on the federal taxes! It is recognized that heat is that detrimental for a person with MS.
Alamosa - Welocme again! Would you be willing to start your own thread and tell us about yourself?
Quix, MD (unoffical and not in practice)
I have been tested for thyroid problems and have none. What is a cool vest and where can I get one????? Thanks so much for responding!
Sue
Sue
I have the exact same thing with heat. I can not tolerate it at all.
Getting a good cool vest has made a huge difference in my life. I love the cool vest and would encourage anybody to get one that has MS and can't stand the heat.
As far as the "cause"of heat intolerance I was told by my neuro basically what Heather posted except for one thing, and I think the doc is right on this one. Instead of slowing things down, heat speeds things up! And actually expands nerves. Makes sense to me as heat speeds up everything else as we learn in chemistry classes. Then the problem is like what Heather mentioned only instead of moving slow things are moving fast and that along with the everything expanded because of the heat it causes more "short circuts" making us sick.
I don't know for sure; I do know the heat really sucks and makes me sick too.
I have also recently learned about hyperthyroidism and MS and the heat intolerance. I think I'm going to do a post on it. Have you ever had thyroid problems?
Stay Cool!
Getting a good cool vest has made a huge difference in my life. I love the cool vest and would encourage anybody to get one that has MS and can't stand the heat.
As far as the "cause"of heat intolerance I was told by my neuro basically what Heather posted except for one thing, and I think the doc is right on this one. Instead of slowing things down, heat speeds things up! And actually expands nerves. Makes sense to me as heat speeds up everything else as we learn in chemistry classes. Then the problem is like what Heather mentioned only instead of moving slow things are moving fast and that along with the everything expanded because of the heat it causes more "short circuts" making us sick.
I don't know for sure; I do know the heat really sucks and makes me sick too.
I have also recently learned about hyperthyroidism and MS and the heat intolerance. I think I'm going to do a post on it. Have you ever had thyroid problems?
Stay Cool!
Not confusing at all! Makes complete sense to me and at least I dont think I'm crazy now. All the symptoms I have had over the last year that are new to me are starting to fit into this puzzle. When the neuro in Fla saw my 1st MRI he said you could have very very early stages of MS, that was 2 years ago and since then at least 5 or 6 "new" symptoms have show themselves. The latest being my finger going completely numb. The journey contines..... I noticed yesterday while having the EMG test done that the doc had also written down Myasthenia Gravis, I have severe pain and stiffness in both my quads that I never had before. Another piece of the puzzle! Thanks for listening and for responding. Enjoy your Sunday Heather.
Sue
Sue
Let me try to explain this in laymen's terms, as best as I can.
In order for all the systems of the body to run smoothly, our body temperatures have to be at or slightly below normal. 98.6 Our bodies work more efficiently at conducting nerve impluses from the brain to the rest of the body when our temperature is normal.
Have you ever heard someone say, (that doesn't have MS) after coming inside from a 90 degree day..."Wow, I feel like I have been run over by a truck. The heat just took everything out of me. I am exahusted." That is all due to the heat. It wears you out because your body is not running at 100% effectiveness. Now add in someone who has damage in their brains and spinal cords from MS. The nerve impluses from the brain, down the spinal cord are already challenged. If you raise their body temperature, these nerve impulses run even slower. Heat really challenges an already defective central nervous system of someone with MS. So their body are not running at full efficientcy anyway. Add in heat and the nerve impulses are even slower than "their" normal.
Symptoms you are having from MS can be greatly aggravated by exposure to heat and raised body temperatures. Have their body temperatures return to their normal and the "symptoms of the heat" seem to fade away and "their normal," is restored.
I hope that I have not confused you more, by my explanation. This was the only way I could figure out how to try and explain why heat is so different for someone that already has neurological challenges.
Hope this helps.
Heather
In order for all the systems of the body to run smoothly, our body temperatures have to be at or slightly below normal. 98.6 Our bodies work more efficiently at conducting nerve impluses from the brain to the rest of the body when our temperature is normal.
Have you ever heard someone say, (that doesn't have MS) after coming inside from a 90 degree day..."Wow, I feel like I have been run over by a truck. The heat just took everything out of me. I am exahusted." That is all due to the heat. It wears you out because your body is not running at 100% effectiveness. Now add in someone who has damage in their brains and spinal cords from MS. The nerve impluses from the brain, down the spinal cord are already challenged. If you raise their body temperature, these nerve impulses run even slower. Heat really challenges an already defective central nervous system of someone with MS. So their body are not running at full efficientcy anyway. Add in heat and the nerve impulses are even slower than "their" normal.
Symptoms you are having from MS can be greatly aggravated by exposure to heat and raised body temperatures. Have their body temperatures return to their normal and the "symptoms of the heat" seem to fade away and "their normal," is restored.
I hope that I have not confused you more, by my explanation. This was the only way I could figure out how to try and explain why heat is so different for someone that already has neurological challenges.
Hope this helps.
Heather
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