Hi guys

[Melissa072]

I was just wondering if someone has had ms symptons for about 3/4 years, that are progressively getting worse, shouldn't I be fatigued by now, or have this fatigue that most people describe?
I am still trying to understand mri's, I had mri of brain and whole spine last July and then repeat done in December both without contrast and nothing showed nor was there a change.
If I have lesions why aren't they showing on mri without contrast, I am going for repeat mri's next fortnight with contrast so if anything shows on these ones why didn't they show on mri with no contrast? I am having L.P. next weekend, are these more accurate in helping to dx ms.
I'm just sick and tired of trying to convince dr's that something is not right. Also if I had an attack last June how long do they last for? I had bilateral face pain for about 8 weeks, in June then tingling hands, feet,groin from June thru to November then stopped, now only comes in heat or if I am doing anything, my face is still numbish, I get burning, cold spots, still twitch mildly, but my tingling was 24/7 for about 6 months straight, so if this was an attack could it last this long? Also neuro told me my thyroid antibodies are very high and that I have hashimotos enc........(long word), he give me 9 days steroids, said it would stop my symptons, it didn't, so now I am going into hospital next weekend for more steroids, and L.P. Is it ok for me to have more steroids so close and what will they do if it is ms, as I don't know about the thyroid, can thyroid cause all ms symptons, I was dx with a multi nodular goitre a few years ago? I am really so confused? Also I have burning now all over my whole back and front, it makes me feel like I have a temperature.

[Melissa072]

I asked about the fatigue as I have always been full of energy and gey by on limited sleep, I can't sit I'm always on the go, I also have an anxious personality, but I can sit till midnight, 1pm in the morning and go to bed wide awake still. I was just curious.

[Quixotic1]

Hi, Doc.  What's up?  You apparently.

Even though fatigue is one of the most commonly reported symptoms (80% to 90% will report problems with it "at some time" during the course of their lives) not everyone has it.  Another very common problem is sleep disturbance, especially insomnia.

A lesion may be too small for the resolution of the MRI machine.  The doc's know that many lesions are invisble.  The problem is they can't count or deal or treat lesions they can't see.  Especially in the spine.  From what I have read, what little correlation they have been able to make about fatigue the problem lies mostly in the brain.  So someone with mostly spinal lesions might not have fatigue at all.

No, the LP is not more accurate at dignosing MS.  It is a supporting test only, helpful when it is positive, but not that helpful when it is negative.

From what I have been able to gather, yes an attack could last 6 months.

HOWEVER, you have got to get the thyroid issue straightened out before anyone can evaluate your neuro findings.  And yes, the thyroid certainly can casue neuropathy!

I'm concerned about your diagnosis of Hashimoto's Encephalitis.  This is a VERY RARE disease having been reported less than 50 times in history!  It is marked by somenolence, confusion (I mean real confusion), sometimes coma, but not by the various neuropathies you seem to have.  I just don't get it.  There is also a specific antibody associated with it.

But, the other Hashimoto's illness, Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, is very common.  It is quite important to know what your thyroid function tests are doing.  I think you need to get copies of your lab tests to know what you are dealing with.  The antibodies in thyroiditis attack the thryoid and eventually leave the person, usually, with hypothyoridism (too low on thyoid hormone).

Thyroid dysfunction is one of the commonest mimics of MS, by far!  So, knowing that you have autimmune thyroid disease, it seems much more important to get that taken care of and see if some of the neuropathies can heal.

One of our members, also an Aussie, Super_Sally, has ongoing problems with her thyroid and might be able to help you here.  I know she was coming up on a trip to NZ (I am so jealous!!!!!) but, we'll ask when she next pops onto the forum.

I hope this helps a little.  Quix

[biowham]

I can't imagine that they're giving you a steroid for your thyroid. Surely they're giving you levothyroxine or some other thyroxine-type hormone. Why would someone put you on steroids for nine days for that? High thyroid antibodies sounds more like the type of Hashimomotos' that Quix describes above. I've got a long history with the thyroid and am an endocrinologist (not MD), and what you've described is kind of confusing. I'm sure they've done TSH if they'd done antibodies. Do you know what your thyroid panel was like? That would be informative; if you were hypothyroid, that would be a likely MS mimic.

Quix is right (of course) on the HE. I wonder if you got that dx b/c of the antibodies they identified, and the steroid you're on is a corticosteroid to suppress their action. But you'd have to essentially be subclinical.

I was hyperthyroid and did not have any MS-like symptoms. My thyroid has now been completely removed and my TSH levels are normal. Honestly, it's just a lot easier sometimes to get rid of the thing than to fool around with trying to adjust hormone doses to meet its ever-changing state of autoimmune problems, which can drag on for years before you finally have it taken out anyway. Not that I'm giving that as advice for you; that was just my personal feeling.

E

[Melissa072]

Because I have a multi nodular goitre I have to go and get it ultrasounded every 12 months to make sure no nudules aren't cancerous, also I get a yearly blood test as my endocronologist said that eventually my thyroid will go over or under active. I have had bloods done for my thryroid and all was fine, the only thing out was thyroid antibodies were high. This is all over my head, I really don't understand any of it, all my 2nd neuro told me was that after taking steroids (Dexmethsone) for 9 days, he would be very surprised if the symptons did not go away. So because he is like 12 hours away I had to call him after the 9 days, I told him no change so he said for me to go into hospital and have another try at the steroids, must be thru a drip or something, they will take 4 hours to go into me. Then I suggested a L.P. and he said he would get a dr he works with to do it for me this dr is a physician (whatever that is). I am going for a repeat mri tomorrow on brain and whole spine with and without contrast. But I'm guessing that if I'm not in an active attack nothing will show, am I right. Although it seems that I've been in a constant one since last June, for a while now I am experincing a burning in whole back and breast area and both arms. I am just son confused at the moment, it just seems the neuro's here don't know what is wrong with me, and because my last 2 mri's without contrast showed nothing and no change that they don't think it's ms. All my symptons fit ms and I've been checked for so many other things, where I had the tingling in my feet for 6 months is now gone but the tingling comes in the exact same place when I'm hot or hot shower, although with 40 degree heat here hot showers are not common, and thank god for air conditioning...............

[Melissa072]

I will get a copy of my thyroid bloods to post, Melissa

[biowham]

MNG--I'm guessing you came back with high TPOs as your antibodies if he's talking Hashimotos? Or maybe it was both. Anyway, I still don't see what the dex is supposed to do for that, esp over nine days tx. But, as I said, I'm not an MD.

The MRI will show "old" lesions without contrast and any actively demyelinating lesions under contrast enhancement. So...if there has been a process rooted in the CNS over the last few months, the MRI might detect lesions. As has been discussed extensively here, the standard power MRIs (1.5 T) don't pick up ALL the lesions that are there; the 3Ts capture a pretty significant greater number that 1.5T machines miss. At any rate, the brain/C-spine MRI may well provide some more useful information here. One possibility is that you might have C-spine or T-spine lesions but no brain lesions that show up. Or...maybe you have no lesions at all.

E

[Melissa072]

I called his secretary today and have asked him to call me and give me more info as I don't totally understand, he told me H.E is an inflammatory thing so hence the steroids, and he said it should take away the symptons, I have read on the net H.E is treated with steroids and person should feel better after 1-3 days on steroids. I have already had 3 mri's last July and Dec so maybe the one tomorrow is too close but at least I'm having contrast, L.P. next week end, maybe then I will have more answers. Maybe I should go back to my endocronologist, I saw him only in 2004 I think when I was dx with multi nodular goitre. The physician who is looking after me in hospital deals a lot with ms so I will pump him for info also. When I get my thyroid info I will post it, hopefully someone can shed more light on it for me.. thanks heaps guys, Melissa

[Melissa072]

You said your an endocronologist, after I get my next mri's and the L.P. if nothing shows up, maybe I should go see the endocronologist who dx me with the multi nodular goitre???