MS and Seizures??

When I went for my Lumbar Puncture the nurse said she needed some bloods. I have already had all blood work done but she said they were re doing syphilis and some others. She burst a vein and when she started on the next vein I said I felt I was going to faint. I passed out. When I came round I was disoriented and had been incontinent. The nurse said I had been having jerking arm movements and she thought it may have been a seizure. It wiped me out, I was so tired for the rest of the day. Needless to say I didn't care for the LP after this.

The last attempt at my LP I passed out during and bolted up during not knowing where I was.

In the past I have fainted fairly frequently and several times been Incontinent.

I have heard of links with MS and seizure though I am inclined to think I just fainted myself. Its just the Incontinence and Jerking movements are rare in syncope.

Anyone have any experience seizure and MS? Just Interested to see what others think

Thanks. Aimee.

[Eyesnlegs]

I had only 3 seizures over a 4 year period last one was in 2000, each one was a precursor to a relapse.

It was the 3rd one before I realized that they were seizures not faints - I do tend to faint regularly too. I will be interested to see other replies about this one too as it was my first trip to the neuro. It also stopped me driving for a while and led to a restricted license

Pat

[fibrotj]

I was reporting an incident...about "how bad my brainfog was getting"...in another MS forum about a year ago, and a number of MS'ers responded back with questions for me, saying that I might be having "partial or complex seizures" (where your mind just sort of goes "blank" for several seconds/minutes...then phases back into reality).  My incident was...I was driving to work one morning, when my mind just sort of went blank...when I started coming back to my senses...I was driving straight, instead of turning the corner (the old dirt road we lived on had a 90 degree turn to the left).  I almost took a pasture fence out, but was stopped in time by some small trees.  I never could figure out "where my mind had gone?" or "why did I not turn?"  It was all eery and troublesome to me...scared me out of my wits!!  I had to get someone to help pull me out of the ditch.  Needless to say, I afraid to tell anyone...didn't even tell my husband!!...for fear of losing my driving priviledges.  I only had those severe episodes during that 1st "flare-up" of symptoms.  I'm PRAYING that they DON'T COME BACK!!!

I'd been having episodes similiar to that where my mind would just seem to 'wander off .'  I'd be driving along and all of a sudden, I would be startled because I didn't have a clue where it was I was driving to?...and numerous other events similar to that.  It's a scary thing to lose all control of your body, but an entirely different thing when you lose control of your mind!!  
~tj

[fibrotj]

I forgot to mention that the MS'ers who posted then, had seizures as well.  So, yes, many people with MS also have seizures.
~tj

[Rena705]

Back in 1993 I presented with Grand Mal seizures prior to being diagnosed with MS.  I only had them at night but would awaken with petechiae on my neck from straining, sore muscles from posturing and a sore tongue from biting it during the seizure.  Although I never lost control of my bladder or bowel it was discerned that these were indeed seizures and that they were related to my MS.  Fortunately I have been on Tegretol since then at varying doses and have not had a seizure for about 13 years.  I had to agree to stop driving until I was seizure free for six months and although they didn't take my license or notify motor vehicles they most certainly could have.  I was fortunate that the med. helped and I haven't had my license restricted.  This is something that I feel you need to look at very seriously.  You should have the proper testing done to discern whether there is seizure activity going on in your brain and if you are currently driving you should think twice before doing so until you really know what is going on.  Bring this to the attention of your neurologist if you have one and if not, explain the situation to your family doctor ok?  I am concerned about your welfare and trust me...this is not to be fooled with because you don't know when a seizure may hit.  If you have any other questions, please feel free to PM me or ask them on here.  I am lurking regularly and would be happy to help if I can.

Lots of hugs,
Rena

[Sunnytoday]

hi there, this is serious, I was told that the main signs of a seizure vs. simple fainting is the jerking and incontinence. PLEASE tell a neurologist ASAP!!! I have possible seizures too but am undiagnosed right now.
~Sunnytoday~

[CareBayer]

I agree with Rena. That is something your doctors should be testing you for. Have you had a EEG performed? Its a test used to determine if your brain waves are normal. I dont know the pacifics of the test for seizures because I had mine done for tremors. I've heard it's very successful in determining seizures. Since the severity of your seizures and the dangers of having them your doctor should have you scheduled for one as soon as possible. Also I take neurotin for neuro pain, but I know its a anti-seizure med too.

[fibrotj]

Do you know whether the EEG's are supposed to be highly efficient at picking up "partial or complex seizures" as well?    I had an EEG done when my symptoms first started, and I passed it fine.  Just wondering...thanks!  
~tj

[CareBayer]

Honestly I have no idea. I have never had a seizure (knock on wood). I just know its used to test the brain waves and how it was decribed to me from my neuro it is to check for abnormal brain waves as seem in epilepsy and brain function in general.

[Suzie9]

Thank you so much for all your comments. It has been very interesting.
As I was in the centre where my neurologists works when I fainted it is all In my notes and I believe they will be testing me to see if there is something going on. The doctor (who was not present when I passed out), said it was probably just a faint, despite what the nurse told her. I got the impression she wasn't pleased that the nurse had suggested it may have been a seizure in front of me

The only thing that makes be doubt a seizure is that it happened during blood drawing which is more in line with fainting. Plus after doing some research, though rare, incontinence and jerking movements are not unheard of in syncope. If there had been tongue biting that would have been a better indicator of seizure.

No doubt I have a long wait before any more tests as things move so slowly here!

[Eyesnlegs]

Don't be fooled about being in the situation that you were. One of my seizures happened when I was with my daughter who was having an out patient procedure for in growing toe nail at the local hospital. Bless her she was only 13 and accused me of trying to steal her limelight!

I suddenly found myself coming round on the floor and the reason I knew it was not a simple faint is as I said before I am quite prone to fainting anyway. This was very different and scared me as I drifted in and out of consciousness as I tried to awaken. My eyes were seen to roll, although I had no jerking and no incontinence and the dizziness that followed lasted for over 24 hours. I was also utterly exhausted which has not happened with a faint.

The other 2 I had were during the night although my husband witnessed them, I was sat on the bed both times and he told me that my eyes rolled back in my head and I dropped down.

I had an EEG which diagnosed epilepsy but I have not had one since 2000 and never needed medication. However, it needs to be taken very seriously and I let the DVLA know immediately as I was very worried that I might kill myself or worse someone else if I was dangerous then I wanted to know as my children were often with me in the car. If my license is taken away I would lose my job too, but the alternative is much worse. My license was merely restricted to certain vehicles and it is renewed every 3 years whilst they check my medical history during that time.

Please make sure it is checked out properly.

Pat
x

[Jenn0030]

I am sorry you had a terrible experience.

As I am finding out, there is such a thing as convulsive syncope (fainting).  I pass out and look like I am having a seizure, but my EEG is near mormal.  It is from lack of oxygen to the brain.

Jenn  

[Jenn0030]

sorry posted incomplete response...

syncope can sometimes occur  during times of stress (ex. blood draws) but you should talk to the doctor about the incontinent part as that is usually the dividing line between syncope and seizures.

[Suzie9]

Thank you.
So will an EEG be the only test needed to see if it was a seizure or not?

[Jenn0030]

maybe...maybe not.  But it is a good place to start.  Usually if they are leaning in the direction of seizure they will start with an EEG and if they are they are thinking syncope then they will start with the tilt table test. Both take about 90 minutes and both don't mean that you will have any answers after.  
Even a negative EEG doesn't rule out a seizure, just means that you didn't have one during the 90 minute testing period. But, if I understand it correctly several negative tests mean that you are less likely to have seizures.  

Jenn

[Suzie9]

So both tests are to bring on seizure or syncope? is that right? I don't know anything about these tests. Will have to look into it.
Also, what about feeling extremely tired for a long time after? Is that with both syncope and seizure?
Aimee.

[Jenn0030]

Aimee,

I just had another EEG done last week, so it is rather fresh in my mind.  There are several different approaches to the tests. I just had a sleep deprived test, most doctors feel that this is the 2nd most effective way of bringing out any seizures (1st being placed in a EMU monitoring unit for 5 days and observing).  The test will try and "force" a seizure by using deep breathing and strobe lights and then ask you to simply go to sleep.  

Tilt table test is helpful to rule in / out syncope.  But, you can always have both seizures and syncope.

I was diagnosed as a child with epilepsy, never lost bowel control with any seizure however that has always been a question that has ALWAYS been asked as that is usually a landmark feature with epilepsy(but can somtimes happen with syncope).  I have recently found out that I might have been mis-diagnosed and may only have syncope.  The tilt table that I had a month ago was the reason.

Jenn

[Suzie9]

Thanks Jenn. I'm not sure if I mentioned that my Blood sugar was low. Well just normal,but I had had lucozade, bacon buttie, sugary sweets and a good meal the night before and no alchohol for a week, all in the hope I would not pass out like the last time. The nurse didn't believe me when I told her what I had eaten.

Could this have anything to do with passing out do you think? I maybe usually have low blood sugar?

Aimee.

[Jenn0030]

I know that after a seizure your BS (suddenly) will usually drop...

On the other hand you could faint from low BS, so that could very well be important.  I will assume that your physician is aware of this?

Jenn

[jensequitur]

The one time I had a vagus reaction from my Copaxone injection, I got very tired and a little nauseous.  A vagus reaction is when you nick a blood vessel, and some of the medication ends up in your bloodstream.  It's not uncommon to be worn out after an experience like that.

My husband has fainted because of low blood sugar.  However, we ran him through the gamut anyway, just to make sure.  He had to go through the EEG, and wear a holter monitor to confirm there was no unusual activity.

[Suzie9]

I don't ever see my doctor with anything related to what they are dealing with at the centre for neurology. When I do he says I am under the care of them so its seems a waste of time making an appointment. But, if I hear nothing from the centre I will be in touch with my Doctor.

Thank you for all your advice.

Aimee.