More l'hermittes

hi everyone--

i'm still struggling with this lhermitte's issue and feel like i'm at my wit's end. i suffer from several anxiety disorders, but i feel like i'm not being taken seriously and my obsession with this symptom and it's implications is taking over my life.

over the course of the past 3 months, i have noticed varying sensations that absolutely only occur when i put my chin to my chest (though not every time, and unaffected by heat). These have lasted anywhere from 5 minutes to 2 weeks in one specific spot on my body, which has included inside of upper arms on one or both side, inner left knee, upper right thigh, left pinky, right index finger, left index finger, right heel, right toes, left palm, both knees to feet. again, some of these are much stronger and persist for longer, and then i'll have a week or so where i feel nothing anywhere.

the sensations range from tingling to pulsing to a muscular pulling feeling. nothing ever is in my neck or spine or trunk, and nothing that i'd ever describe as electric or buzzing. my gp doesn't know anything about the symptom, adn i admit i wouldn't have either had i not been obsessed with worry about ms.

i've been written off as a hypochondriac and while i can absolutely accept that parathesias can be caused by anxiety--ive had them during an accute panic attack, i know that i am NOT imagining that for two weeks one specific spot on my leg tugs when i bend my neck. i dont see how this is "nothing" and since i've never even been to a neurologist (and my PCP laughed when i requested one---literally LAUGHED), i have no real reassurance as to what else it could be.

what should i do? i would love nothing more than to just forget about this and move on with my otherwise wonderful life. but as it stands, i feel like i'm crazy, and am completely fixated on this bizarre symptom. is it possible that i've actually caused damage to my neck with the constant testing? it's to the poitn where even in the middle of the night i wake up to flex my neck. when my MS obsession began i would do this and nothing would happen. i realize it would be incredibly ironic for this to just develop when all i do is worry about ms, brain tumors, etc., which is what my shrink says. but i am not, and have never been, "crazy," as in detached from reality in any sense. and i am very very very sure i am not imaginging these sensations.

Sorry for the rant, but i am so frustrated.

[Lowen]

Hi there-

How many times a day do you do this thing with your neck?

It is very, very possible that you have strained some of the muscles in your neck. If the muscles in your neck have become inflamed, then it is likely that they have formed knots and are putting pressure on your nerves.

Your nervous system is this big crazy network of nerves weaved throughout your entire body. The main nerves branch out from your spinal cord and there are peripheral nerves connected to the main ones. The starting point of all your nerves though, is your spinal cord, which, as I'm sure you know, begins at the base of your head/brain and travels down your back.

A good example of nerve pain caused by muscle tension would be sciatica. Millions of people all around the world have experienced sciatica--it's really common. Basically, many people carry tension in their lower back--I'm sure you've heard of many people with back pain/problems--well, sometimes the muscles in your lower back become tense and inflamed without a person even knowing it--and for many, instead of experiencing pain in the lower part of the back where the problem is, they feel pain down their leg, behind the knee, in the foot, toes, or all of those areas and can also experience numbness and tingling. It can takes days to weeks to clear up-as the only thing that really helps tense muscles is rest and relaxation.

Also, when you place your chin to your chest, it's stretching not just one muscle, but an entire muscle group. It's important to do this stretch, when you are relaxed or warmed up. Try deep breathing and doing some back and arm stretches first. It's healthy to feel that pulling sensation when stretching, but never stretch yourself to the point where it becomes painful. After doing a couple of stretches, try the chin to chest test when you are relaxed, making sure the muscles in your neck are not tensed up.

Also, what makes you worry that you have MS besides these sensations? Are you experiencing other symptoms as well? If you have carefully read the list of common MS symptoms and you find that you are experiencing many of them, then I think an appointment with a neurologist is in order, regardless of what your shrink says--is he/she an MD? Even so, you should do what you feel is right. Also, when reading the symptoms, try not to think about them. Go with your first reaction. It's important to be honest and to not over-analyze.

And lastly, it's possible to psychologically manifest real pain--and I don't mean that you are imagining pain or that you are crazy. I have no doubt that you know your body and know what you are feeling--that is what makes it real--even if there is no biological  or physiological source. Have you ever heard of phantom limb pain? After amputation of a limb, an amputee continues to have an awareness of it and to experience sensations from it. These phantom limb sensations are also present in children born without a limb, suggesting that perception of our limbs is 'hard-wired' into our brain and that sensations from the limbs become mapped onto these brain networks as we develop. See? These people aren't crazy, but for years and years, they were written off as lunatics, as people couldn't understand why you would feel pain in an absent limb.

Anyhow, I'll cut it out now, I'm a lengthy poster! I can go on and on. Anyhow, I think what you need is: firstly, a good massage and some relaxation. You sound worried and kinda stressed. Second, I would look into seeing some doctors. If you have other symptoms, look into seeing if you do have MS. Have a neurologist evaluate you, get some bloodwork. Also, maybe look into seeing if you have fibromyalgia.

Hope I was helpful and good luck!

[Quixotic1]

First off, I want to thank Lowen for a very thoughtful post!  You make some great points and I hope a lot of people read what you wrote.

Sara - I am very concerned about this obsession and your belief that it truly represents L'Hermittes in the MS sense of the word.

In order to have the everchanging symptoms that you describe:

"These have lasted anywhere from 5 minutes to 2 weeks in one specific spot on my body, which has included inside of upper arms on one or both side, inner left knee, upper right thigh, left pinky, right index finger, left index finger, right heel, right toes, left palm, both knees to feet. again, some of these are much stronger and persist for longer, and then i'll have a week or so where i feel nothing anywhere. "

you would have to have a lesion that was literally crawling across your cervical spine like an amoeba.  MS lesions do not behave that way.  They occur in a specific place, cause symptoms that - by definition last a minimum of 24 hours - and then either remain, improve or disappear.  What you are describing is not possible with the way MS is known to attack nerves.

I also believe that you feel something.  But, I do not see in any way, shape or form that what you are feeling can be the result of MS lesions.  I also believe that by concentrating so hard to see where you can feel something that you develop a heightened and exagerated awareness of normal body sensations.  All normal people can feel things about their body that become more noticeable if their pay attention to them.  An area of skin sensitivity, tight or fatigued muscles, tinglings, etc are all part of normal life for all healthy people.  For the most part we barely notice them, if at all.

But, if any of us were to pay very close attention, we would notice a lot of them.  The more we focus on them, the more dramatic they seem.  A normal, healthy person is not someone who has absolutely NO unusual sensations.  Normal healthy people often have odd or disagreeable things happening here and there all the time.

Now, you have told us that you are self-checking this "L'Hermittes" dozens or hundreds of times a day.  You even awaken to check it.  This, as descibed above by Lowen, is an abnormal thing to be doing with you body.  The fear that we all hear in your voice is undoubtedly translating into physical stress, tightening the muscles around your neck, forcing nerve bundles to be under more stress than usual.  Yes, I believe that you are feeling something and I am sure it is not a lesion in your neck.

But, you also know that doctors dismiss you as a hypochondriac - BTW I hate that term.  The better term is a person with Health Anxiety.  And knowing that people aren't listening to you or giving you creedence just adds to the anxiety of fearing that something is wrong and it will be missed.  And you are right. There is nothing to say that a person with health anxiety can't also have something seriously wrong with them.  But the one thing obscures the other.

At this point, I would venture to say that the checking for L'Hermitte's is out of control.  I think you should call whomever you see that is helping you with your anxiety.  Try to get this under control and then see what is left.  Heck, if there is anyway, try to get some massages and some relaxation therapy.  Once the obsession with checking your neck is better controlled, you will be able to see if there is anything there at all.

The L'Hermittes that I suffer has been described as very mild.  Yet, the sensation of it reaches up and slaps me when I am thinking about other things.  I'll be checking out at the grocery store, look into my purse for my card and BAM my thigh buzzes.  No way do those of us with L'Hermittes need to think about it being there.  Just slightly looking downward (WAY before the chin touches the chest) will bring on the sensation.

I hope you do not take this as being harsh.  Your pain, feelings and fears are very real and really are damaging your quality of life.  Remember, you never noticed these sensations before hearing about what the L'Hermittes Sign was.  Lesions in the spine are not magical and would not appear just because you learned about it.

I hope this has helped, if not reassure you, then to spur you to get some specific therapy for the current obsession.  If any L'Hermittes is there, you will never have to check to see if it is present.

Take care, and this is not any kind of message for you to go, it's just something I felt I had to say.

Momma Quix

[SaraSil]

thank you both so much. I am sure others tell you this often, but it honestly amazes me that you read a post of a complete and stranger and sit down to craft a 10 paragraph response. you are all so kind. i have been lurking here for a while, and while i would never wish to have MS, i have to say that it is a great comfort to know that people like you all exist, here, for each other. thanks to you both for these long and incredibly thoughtful replies.