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Avatar universal

Not sure of symptoms

Hi there,

I am new here and have been reading the posts.  I am a 32 year old female.  I have recently (a week ago) started experiencing some weird symptoms.  It started with pain in my lower legs at the back of the calves, on the right side at first then in both sides (I have had this aching type pain before but it has gone away).  It stopped after a couple of days but the aching was in my joints more (knees, elbows and ankles on both sides at the same time).  It felt like a burning sensation.  This lasted a day or so.  Then I just got aches in the front of both legs above the knees.  I saw a dr at a clinic who said it was likely viral.  The next day I started to feel really fatigued.  I ended up going to the ER due to the fatigue and pain in my legs (both legs).  They did complete blood work which came back normal.  Since then (that was 4 days ago) I have  started to feel a burning, numblike feeling on the tops of my forearms (both arms) from the elbow to the wrist and into my left thumb.  Last night I awoke with the left arm feeling numb and asleep but I could still feel it when I touched it?  It is hard to explain.  One thing I should mention is that I have had a continuous mild numblike feeling in my left foot throughout this.  Sometimes the right one feels similar.  I have had this numblike feeling in my left foot before (months ago) but it went away.  In fact I used to get this feeling when I work work out on the eliptical trainer.  

As I am typing this - it feels as though my fingers are not finding the letters the way they usually do.  Like they are hitting the keyes too hard or not hard enough? No visual disturbances, in fact I went in for an eye exam a month ago and did some extra testing as one optic nerve is larger than the other?  The eye dr said that the vision is the same though (not sure if this has any bearing on anything).

My dr has sent in for more blood work (thyroid, iron levels, etc.) but they have not come back yet.  I am worried that this may be MS.  The dr did not seem to think that the achiness I experienced was typical of MS and that it was on both sides at the same time.  I would really like a referral to a neuro so I guess I should push that with her.

Thanks for any comments/suggestions anyone may have.  I have two young kids (as many of you can appreciate) and feel that it is so hard to deal with this wondering and worrying and still take care of them.
18 Responses
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429949 tn?1224691579
The transient numb/tingle feeling comes on in either the backs of both caves or the sides of both forearms at the same time.  It may go days or weeks before I feel it again.  I have a lot of tingling and pain in my scalp when my hair is moved{ brushed, washed, pulled up in a hair tie, cut, put up in a towel ect.

I also have little short stabing pains in different areas of my body at different times, but they only last for seconds.  My previous  neuro explained this as residual nerve damage, but my new neuro I haven't had the chance to discuss it with him yet as I have only seen him once so far.

Someone, Anyone, please explain what Fleeting means, and what are these wierd things that come but don't last??

~Santana~
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Avatar universal
I too am confused about the fleeting thing.

my left foot may be slightly numb but only for a little while and then be gone, but then it may or may not return that day
my face is a little numb on one side but then last a few hours and be gone,
my legs will ache and have pains that seem to be in both legs at the same time (sometimes it seems to be joint and other times it seems to be elsewhere in the legs)
today I have a burning stabbing pain in one side of the top of my head - it felt like my scalp was sunburnt.

Does this sound like anything anyone has experienced.

i am so confused.

Is there anything to take for the leg pains?
Helpful - 0
429949 tn?1224691579
Hi, and welcome to the MS forum.  I have been in limbo for two years, stuck between ADEM and MS.  For now, my dx is ADEM one of the MS mimics.  I have numbness/tingling that comes on symetric( both sides at the same time).  It is in the backs of my caves and the sides of my forearms and sometimes in my face and scalp.

Quix

I mentioned these symptoms to my new neuro, who is very experienced with MS, from what I have been told.  He is my new neuro, so I haven't completely been around him long enough to know how experienced he is yet.  

He asked if I had any new symptoms, so I explained what I explained above with the addition of a slight burning going across my left foot about 3 different times.  He asked how long it lasts.  I explained that it only last from a few seconds to about 5 min, and then it is gone, until it returns at a differnt time.

He didn't feel that this was consistant with MS, because it was fleeting. I am somewhat confused about this myself for now!

My presentation two years ago started with sudden vision dysfunction. This was definately apparent to me in both eyes and so was the severe pain behind both eyes. Visual field testing showed a left inferior harmonyious quadrantopia, which basiclly means loss of one quadrant in both sides of the vision field. So I am a little confused as to whether this means unilateral or bilateral or symetric or asymetric vision loss.

Could you explain what fleeting means, and I think a  lot of us are confused about the difference in unilateral/bilateral and symetric/ asymetric.  I would really be interested in finding out the difference in them.

~Santana~
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I also wanted to add after re-reading these posts, that two doctors that I have seen now did NOT think my symptoms sounded like MS - I think I may have made a type-o in my first post.  Even still, I was referred to a Neuro who just happens to head the MS clinic at our local hospital.

I am now trying to get sleep, haven't had much lately, and am trying to determine if there is a correlation between the symptoms and my anxiety/fear.

Thanks all.
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Avatar universal
I clarified with my optometrist's office that the finding was that the disc to cup ratio in one optic nerve was greater than in the other - she said I could have been born with it.  They want me back each year to see if there is any change.  There was no change in the size difference and the peripheral vision testing done this year from last year's exam.

I guess I am still wondering, other than Lyme Disease, if you have any ideas what my symptoms could be pointing at, other than the RLS/anxiety part that you just talked about, mainly:

burning/tingling sensation in ankle/lower leg and into foot, mainly in both sides, but sometimes only in left
burning/tingling sensation in forearms of both arms
episodes of burning in joints of legs and arms
some muscle twitches when resting (mostly in bed at night)

sorry for being so repetitive.  Do you think it is a neurological disorder?  Any clues?
Helpful - 0
147426 tn?1317265632
It sounds like you are describing Restless Limb Syndrome.  It really can involve more than legs and I have had it involve the arms and trunk, too.  Clearly it is disruptive to your daily life and you should speake to your doctor about it.  It could be anxiety - it is at least anxiety-provoking.  But, my guess is that it is RLS, which BTW is more common in MS than in the general population.

Q
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I also get this feeling of uneasiness deep down in my body and legs - sort of in my torso as if I can't sit still and need to get up and move around.  I feel the need to flex or clench a muscle to stop this odd feeling.  For example I just had an episode before I sat down at the computer. I have the burning feeling in my forearms (both sides) into my hands and thumbs.  I feel like I can't sit still and watch tv or read or even give my baby a bottle.  I have been having this happen several times each day - lasting about 10 mins to 30 mins and it goes away - sometimes it stays a little.  I feel like I need to run to the hospital - is this just anxiety?

Helpful - 0
147426 tn?1317265632
I'll take a stab at some of these, but I want others to jump in also.

The difference in "size" of the optic nerve puzzles me.  It might be that they were seeing blurred borders that could indicate edema of the nerve and that it means something.  Other than than I'm not sure if it is a legitimate finding.

The pain or sensations can absolutely be, and often are, on both sides, even from the beginning.  But, in MS it would be odd if the sensations began as "mirror-images" of each other.  That's what we mean by symmetrical.  It means identical problems on each side form the very beginning.  That is what would be unusual - Both hands being numb starting at the same time, both feet burning, etc.  One notable exception to this is the symptoms seen with Transverse Myelitis.  Because in this the lesion goes all the way across the spinal cord (transverses it) the symptoms are symmetrical.  

Yes, the problems sometimes/often fluccuate somewhat from side to side.  But, when people describe sensations that are fleeting and move around all the time - many times during the day - this is not characteristic of MS.  People, especially with longstanding MS will say that sometimes (some days) one symptom predominates and other times another one does and that these symptoms may definitely be on either side of the body.  However, these symptoms are not fleeting.

Any one else want to give this a try?  The whole concept of symmetric versus symmetric seems to be really confusing.  Here are three examples of things people say:

"Last week on Monday both hands and both feet started tingling" - Not typical of MS.

"I started to have tingling in my right hand.  Later the left hand started tingling, but just in a couple fingers.  Eventually, both hands were tingling, but the right one was always worse." - very typical of MS

"I get tingling all over,  It moves around from minute to minute (or hour to hour)  Sometimes in my feet (plural) sometimes in my face or hands (plural)." - Not typical of MS

Yes, aches that seem to be in the muscles or bones are common and sometimes difficult to pin down as to exact location.  Specifically "joint" pain is not typical of MS except for the times when the poor posture/balance or the spasms place abnormal stress on a joint.  But, diffuse joint pain is not a part of early MS.  If there is swelling, redness, and pain with movement, that is arthritis of one type or another.  Arthritis is NOT a part of MS, at least not directly.  Does that make sense?

Yes, I have often heard people complain that a limb feels "weak", but that it still is as strong as ever.  I had that feeling initially when I was losing strength in my right arm.  Initially, the exam was normal, but over time I did lose actual strength.

As for pain in or behind the eyes:  If it lasted a day or more, this is suspicious for optic neuritis, espcecially if it is associated with vision changes.    But realize that other things can cause eye pain also, like migraines or sinus pressure.

I hope this helps a little.  Keep asking questions.

Quix
Helpful - 0
338416 tn?1420045702
I don't usually have symmetrical problems with numbness or other paresthesia.  I have asymetrical problems - my right hand and right leg have been weak, and I get paresthesia in my left leg.  And yes, my left leg has also been weak, although not consistently, and I have had paresthesia on the right side.  But every day is different.

My numbness tends to be fine touch only.  If I burn myself or injure myself, the pain is there, but not as intense as it would have been before the damage.  

My pain is either paresthesia, or muscular pain.

The question I would be asking the eye doctor is if your optic nerve is atrophied, or just naturally larger than the other.  

Just a thought - you might have somebody take a look at your spine and neck.  Many of the symptoms you describe could be from spinal cord impingement or stenosis.  This could cause the symmetrical burning, weakness, and numbness you're experiencing.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Thanks again everyone,

I am starting to think a little more clearly with all of your comments and great information.  

Sorry - I just have some more questions:

-with MS are the symptoms usually seen on one side at a time (ie numbness or burning in one limb) and not the other at the same time?  
Does it sometimes fluctuate from one to the other?  

-Also, is it common with MS to have just a slight numb feeling or is it all out numbness as in you can't move your leg or arm?

-Is it common to have aches in your legs that are not in the joints - I guess it almost feels like weakness and tiredness in the legs or arms but there is no decrease in the actual physical strength of the limbs?

-the optic nerve thing is bothering me...if one optic nerve is larger than the other, does this mean that it could be optic neuritis?

I have had pain behind my eye or eyes before....

thanks again
Helpful - 0
338416 tn?1420045702
The only thing that stands out in my mind is your mention that one optic nerve was larger than the other.  They're currently working on a new form of diagnostic testing called optical coherence tomography, which looks at the optic nerve and retinal fibers of your eye to see if it's atrophied.  

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=31252

That to me means it's worth following up with an MRI of the brain (with and without gadolinium contrast) to see if there's any atrophy or lesions.
Helpful - 0
147426 tn?1317265632
Only about 40% of people with definite Lyme disease ever remember a tick bite.  That is only helpful when you DO remember one and/or have the classic rash.

I read your post carefully and, no, I do not think this sounds like MS.  The bilateral presentation from the very beginning, and the involvement of the joints are what take MS out of consideration in my view.  The facial numbness is also common in Lyme, as it is in MS.  The third branch of the Trigeminal Nerve runs along the jaw and is a frequent target of both diseases.

The fatigue is also common to many diseases, not only Lyme and MS, but many other inflammatory and neurologic problems also.  Loss of the drive to do things can also be seen in depression.  That should be kept in mind.  Depression is frequently a part of MS and other chronic diseases.  That said, it also magnifies vague pains.  Worrying about an illness like MS can also magnify existing depression or bring on depression secondarily.

Since your doc is thinking MS, you need to read Rena's excellent Health Page, "My doctor says I may have MS...Now what?  You need a referral to a neurologist who should do a thorough history and physical, and will likely order some diagnostic testing.

That is definitely your next step.  You will not be able to determine what this is online, though we very much would like to see you through it.  

I hope others will be by also.  Your own doc may have a better handle on things since he/she is the one who knows you and knows what your exam looks like.  The vague, diffuse pain is not typical enough for us to say much about it, though several of us were commiserating about this very thing today.  Still, most of us have pain that was not very symmetrical when it started and it doesn't usually involve multiple joints.

I understand the fright.  Your doc brought up the MS idea, and you are stuck in that worry until you move through the diagnostic process.  We have all been there and can help you with it.  The internet has a lot of misleading and frightening info on it, but we can help you find the good stuff.  You need a good neuro to help tease out these things.

There are many illnesses that mimic MS.  Most of these are ruled out by blood tests.  Again, the neurologist is the one to guide you here.

Stay with us, I hope we can help.

Quix
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Avatar universal
I just wanted to add that a part of the left side of my face (near my jaw) has now lost a little sensation.  This just happened today.  I don't know what is going on....feeling very frightened.
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Avatar universal
Hi and thanks for your quick replies everyone.

I am worried so much about MS now from reading all the posts and other info on the internet- do my symptoms sound like MS at all?  Mr Dr seems to think no.   My symptoms are very vague so I have a hard time explaining them - more burning like pain all over but not constant - and usually symmetrical - both limbs in the same spot at the same time.  I feel at times like I need to get up and move to try and shake off the feeling.  I am not sure if I mentioned the physical fatigue - not really like I need to sleep more, but I just don't have the drive to get up and do things.  One more thing that I wanted to add was that with the Lyme disease, I don't recall ever being bitten by anything out of the ordinary.  Could I have been and not noticed it?

Thanks again.

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147426 tn?1317265632
I want to spend a little more time on your story, but right off I want to recommend that you be tested thoroughly for Lyme Disease.  Your sudden onset of pain and paresthesias along with joint pain really brings that prticular infection to mind.  The diffuse joint pains would be very unusual in MS, but is classic in Lyme, less so for viral infections.

When they test they will likely start with the ELISA test which is good only if it is positive.  If it is negative you really don't know much, because there are many false negatives.  In that case request a "Western Blot" test to be sent to a major Infectious Disease laboratory.

No matter what else we come up with, be sure you get the Lyme testing.

Quix, MD (unofficial)
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376513 tn?1217858105
Hey!!! Welcome to the forum, I am new too but it is great!!! As my experience with being dianosed my legs "fell" asleep in May of 2007 - waist down and I was finally diagnosed in June of 2008 my B12 level was in the "severe mode" so that threw my dr for a loop for the first 9-10 months then I was sent to a neurologist which had me diagnosed in less then 2 months or so...as ess says it can be so many things our nerves as I am finding out there can be so many different storys to them!!! Good Luck and please keep us updated!!!!
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Avatar universal
Thanks so much ess.

From what I have read - there seems to be a really wonderful group of people here!  I will try and write back when I know more.
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Avatar universal
Hi, cavac, and welcome to the MS forum. I'm truly sorry that you needed to find your way here, but you did, and now our job is to provide you with support and information. We'll do our best.

The symptoms you describe do sound neurological. A lot can go wrong with the nervous system, and at this point it would be impossible to guess what's happening with you. Your doctor is right that MS doesn't usually present with both-sided symptoms at once. I strongly suggest that you keep an open mind as to what it could be, and not try to 'fit' into any one diagnosis. And I do urge you to make an appointment with a neurologist before doing anything else. The blood work you've already had is important, but a neuro is likely to order still more, in addition to giving you a complete exam. Based on what is found, there still are lots more rule-in/rule-out tests before anything can be concluded.

It's a long road, no matter what the results, but we're here and can answer lots of questions that may arise. So hang in there and remember that you're not alone with this. With any luck, all your symptoms will vanish as quickly as they came, but either way you've come to a good place.

ess
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